One Night Ultimate Werewolf

Welcome to Replayable, where we go into depth on our favorite tabletop games that keep us coming back again and again. I'm the start player Todd, and today I'm joined by Megan for our 19th episode. We'll be suspecting each other in One Night Ultimate Werewolf. It was designed by Ted Alsbach and Akhisa Akui with artwork by Gus Batts. It was originally released in 2014 by Bezier Games. How are you doing today, Megan? You feeling a little hungry? Yes, I'm ready to taste some villager flesh.

One Night Ultimate Werewolf distills the classic social deduction game into a fast experience for 3 to 10 players. Everyone gets a role from a dozen different characters, and in the course of a single morning your village will decide who is a werewolf because all it takes is finding one werewolf to win. So Megan, you and I have been playing werewolf together for quite some time, and it originally started on BoardGameGeek.com in the forums. Tell me your thoughts about that experience.

Sure, I will say that I, in college, my group of friends played Mafia frequently, and I loved it. I loved that experience. That was my favorite thing that my friends and I did, and I was always looking for another experience like that. And one of those friends was also a strategy board gamer, and he introduced me to Shadows over Camelot, which was kind of my entry point into playing more games. Wow, that's a great one. And he made me aware of BoardGameGeek.

And so then I started looking on BoardGameGeek for information about board games, and I stumbled across a subforum where people were playing Play by Forum Werewolf. And I was like, this is like Mafia. I loved this. If I don't have an in-person group playing this by forum, maybe we'll scratch that itch.

And what I found when I played it was there are some pieces missing from the face-to-face experience when you're playing by forum, but it also allows for a lot of innovation and creativity and experiences that you could not have face-to-face. Some of the complexity of those games were just wild. I absolutely loved it. There was a season in my life that group playing that game was so important to me. And obviously, our game group all came from that, for me, is all connected to that experience.

And even though we don't play Werewolf on the forums much anymore, certainly playing One Night Werewolf is a nice echo back to our shared relational history as a group. And it's one I think we all get pretty excited about. I know I certainly do. So One Night Ultimate Werewolf, it was surprising how effective this game is because it encapsulates so much of the storytelling and the deception and being resourceful, but doing it all in such an incredibly compact timeframe.

Yes. Five minutes or less, or you could set it for longer. What makes it work so well for you? Yeah, I think the game works so well because the real pain point in Werewolf is that experience of if you are voted out or if you are night killed early in the game, especially if it's a big game, you're just out of the game. You're just sitting there waiting.

And I think it can be a pretty intense or stressful situation for people who, you know, for a seer who's trying to make, am I making intelligent choices for who I'm seeing? And am I able to communicate that? And am I able to keep up a pretense and for your evil team to try to be, you know, coordinating while also making sure that they're coming up with a cover story and are they seeming plausible in what they're pretending?

I think that can be stressful over, you know, or kind of tiring over a long game. Whereas One Night Werewolf, man, you are in and out. And so you get to enjoy those experiences of playing with those things for a little bit and then it's done. So it doesn't feel so high stakes.

And I also think because of what can happen during the night where your role can change, your alignment can change, that also takes away from that feeling of like, I have a responsibility toward my team or some of those things that can maybe make playing the full werewolf game feel a little more stressful. I agree. I also like the way that no one is out of the game for a long time.

Yes. I think One Night does a wonderful job of keeping everyone engaged and you're done and you're moving on to the next one. Sure. The other thing it allows you to do is make some pretty wild plays because your time investment is so small. Well, if I lie about being a seer and I stumble and we lose, okay, we lost. That was four minutes. Now we're on to the next game as opposed to you've ruined the experience for the next 45 minutes for everyone who stayed in the game.

So what's your favorite role? Oh, Todd. Oh, goodness. What's my favorite role? We were really having fun with the witch the other night and I don't know that I'd had that much fun with that role previously. But I mean, at the end of the day, is there anything more fun than being a wolf and winning? I don't think so. I think being any flavor of wolf and winning is really delightful for me. How about you?

I would have to say probably the minion because I like knowing the answers, but I also like intentionally getting caught to protect my wolf brethren. Yes, there is definitely that. And then I also on the off chance, the troubleshooter swapped roles with me. Troubleshooter? Yeah, the troublemaker, sorry, swapped my role and convinces me they did so. Then I could write there and say, oh, Megan's a wolf. Everybody vote for Megan. Yes, yes.

But you had something similar happen in one of our games, right? Where you were the robber and you robbed me of my wolf. And then you somehow managed to say, oh no, I trouble made instead. And everyone thought you were good and I was still evil and you won. We were so used to playing werewolf together in those forums. What did you think when you first were introduced to this one night version that was over in minutes? We can do your experience being a demo assistant. A booth, babe. Go ahead.

You can say it. I'm trying not to. Yeah. So of course I'm skeptical of change. So I was like, I don't know. I don't know. But everything I heard was just that people loved it. And people that I respected, people who played with us were like, no, it's incredible. It's great. And so I was like, oh, okay. And so I was going to BGGCon the year this was being released and Ted Alspach was looking for people to help out and demo some of their games.

And so I volunteered to do a few shifts doing that at BGGCon. And it was so loud in the room that we were doing this that you couldn't use the phone app because you could not make the phone loud enough to be heard. So I would have to do the night phase as we were playing with people and just talk through, you know, see wolves, open your eyes, look at each other and do that whole thing. But I got to play the game just over and over again with people who were interested.

And then our group of friends was playing a lot. And that was a really fun experience. I mean, thank goodness I liked the game. Right? Well, that would have been uncomfortable. Yes. But that was a really great experience of just playing a bunch as I was learning and getting to teach others. It kind of cemented that base character set and rule set in my mind. And I over that weekend was like, oh yeah, this is it.

And then, you know, when the weekend was over, I got to pick a free game and I was like, oh, I'm taking one night. This is what I want. And yeah, I was really thrilled by the game and by the experience. And I was like, man, my expectations going into this were low. And it just really overshot the expectations that I had. And I was just like, this is great. It's taking away the pain points from werewolf, but giving me still all the fun. Yeah. What did you think? What was your first impression?

Well, I think the same board game geek con, it was wildly popular amongst our friends, right? Because when we went to the convention, we were spending our time with all of our friends from the werewolf play by forum group. And we played it over and over again. And I thought it was wonderful. And I do have to say the app is great. Eric Summer does the voiceover work for that. He's got an amazing voice for that. And it got to the point where I remember walking through the vendor room, right?

Where everyone has their booth set up and they're selling it. And Eric was going around and a lot of people were taking pictures. He's a very popular host from the Dice Tower. And he would even be going, everyone, close your eyes. And it's something you're tracking. It's like, I heard the voice. Where is the voice coming from? So I had a lot of fun memories of playing that for the first time there.

We thought it would be fun for this episode to record some actual live games that we played together as an entire group. Unfortunately, this was the first time we've tried such a thing. And we probably committed every technical faux pas you can imagine. So for the first game, we were playing with roles from the base game of One Night Ultimate Werewolf. As it would turn out, both werewolf tiles were in the center. Dave, the seer, saw Greg as the minion.

Megan, the robber, robbed seer Dave. The troublemaker was also in the center, which meant Greg woke up as the minion and saw no wolves while Paul and I were both villagers. Good morning. I'm just going to keep this out of the way. Yeah. I'm the troubleshooter. I robbed the minion. So if there are two werewolves, we can end this right now. That's fine. I was going to tell you the same thing. But let's move on. Well, it was your minion. You took my minion.

I don't understand since I robbed you, Greg. Okay. So we're robbing the werewolf. But then I troubleshooter. Greg and Megan. Troubleshooter. First edit of the pod. So that's PG. Not on the seer. And I think Greg's panicking because I saw two wolves. Interesting. Wow. I don't even know what to do with that. A Paul seer. Wow. Okay. If you... Who do you think the wolves are? Just like... Wait, you said you robbed his minion. So you're the minion. Yep. Yeah. And you're now the robber?

If this is true, I just... Now I am. I am Troubleshooter. You can't even use this on Troubleshooter. It's not going to get any better than that. Okay, Megan. More slaves. More slaves. Oh my gosh. I am a troubleshooter. All right. Go on. Thank you for not using high. And I did these two. I did Dave and Greg. You're safe. Wait until he told me who to hold these on. No, no, no. You asked me. I told you. I'm a troubleshooter and I said I switched you and Greg. Oh, that's not what happened.

I love that I got Troubleshooter to become canon. Right. And no matter what, Greg, you're not the minion anymore. I'm not sure. All right. Well, we've got claims from everybody about you, Dave. Wow. So you're just going to believe her claim over mine. You know I got mine out there first. He should because I'm not the troublemaker. I was the robber. Oh, wait a minute. Who did you rob? I robbed Dave. And what did you see from him? What role are you now? I totally forgot to look at the card.

Yeah, so I don't believe that. I just switched that. Go ahead. Oh my gosh. There's clearly a werewolf. I'm Jeasy over here. I'm Jeasy. I love that this is being preserved for posterity. Oh, no. You're claiming this? No, no, no. I'm not seer. OK. I'm hard claiming this. I'm hard claiming this. OK. That you stole my role and didn't look at it. Yes. Unfortunately, that is my claim. Wait, so nobody is claiming you're the troublemaker. So wait, what are you?

I'm not really claiming the troublemaker now. Amazing. OK. No, I'm a villager. Well, now you are, sure. Yeah. Now that I know Dave was a werewolf. Eighteen eight. What? And Kevin's now a werewolf. What? OK, there's too many villagers because I am a villager. Look, I'm the seer, Greg was the minion. And you know that to be true. Only Greg knows this is true. Well, no, I'm a villager. All right, well, that's what I said. Say what you want. So there's no troublemaker?

Wait, so if there really is just one minion, we kill them, right? Yeah. I mean, if you believe Megan, I'm the robber, regardless of whatever. That is true. So knowing how to do it, this is what I saw. So I'm ready for Paul. Paul? Yeah. Greg. He's a minion. I told you. He just said if the minion is the only person left. OK, three on me. Such a minion. You're welcome. Two. Me. So there are two in here? There have to be. Oh, I was right.

I feel like that situation where both wolves are in the middle is almost an insta-fail for the village. It's really hard to convince yourselves that there's not a wolf somewhere. Hmm. That is not what I thought you were going to say. I mean, I think for me, if I'm the minion and I wake up and the wolves are in the middle, you know, and so I'm not seeing any wolves, my heart is racing, you know, because that's a scary situation. You have no help, right? It's just you.

And man, did I go back and forth on Greg. I came in my mind. I was just like, oh, he seems mini-me. But then I bought into maybe some story that I made up in my own mind that it was Dave. And so I remember that I voted Dave, which was not helpful to the village. Right. I think I voted for Paul, which also was not helpful. Greg did a really excellent job as the minion.

I mean, I suppose the nice thing in that situation is that while your team isn't there to help you, they're also not there to let you down. You know, you're not necessarily going to get into trouble because someone else flubs and you're connected to them. Right. That's a help. I don't know. I'm curious where your mind is on that. Greg was obviously making himself suspicious. So we had him pegged as the minion fairly early on.

And again, we were playing four minute games, so it wasn't like we had long discussion times. And we were convinced he was trying to cover for somebody. And I had in my mind made it up. Like I had to find the wolf. The fact that we needed to vote intentionally for the minion and that would give us the win as opposed to the loss was never on my radar. So it was well played by Greg. Yes. For our second game, Greg and I both started as werewolves. Paul was the seer.

Megan was the robber and David was the doppelganger. This meant the troublemaker minion and a villager were all in the center. Anybody got anything to say? Yeah, I'm the troublemaker. Which troublemaker? Either the troublemaker or the doppelganger or troublemaker? Oh, good call. The troublemaker. You are the troublemaker. The OG. Okay. Todd, what's going on over there? I'm the seer and I will tell you we have a doppelganger. Okay. Cool. Greg? You're being awfully quiet.

I jumped right in on the first game so I wanted to let other people... Yeah, why are you holding back again, dude? I'm not holding anything back. You held back both games. So a trade game come forward. Wow, you got like a moment of attention and then immediately deflected to Dave. Right. Okay. Do you have a wolf partner or were you on your own? So I'm getting wolfy vibes from both Dave and Megan. Yeah? No. Well, it... Alright. You want to claim for me before you?

I have no claim for you. I have no idea what you're saying. Why don't you claim for yourself? I am not a seer who viewed you as a doppelganger who viewed you as a robber who stole you. I did nothing. I didn't touch your card. Why don't I believe you all the time? I'm feeling like... Megan, what did you do? I was a wolf but I think he robbed me. Wait a minute, miss. I'm just sitting there letting you all cannibalize yourselves. What did you do? I was a robber.

Okay. I mean I was a doppelganger robber. And I looked this time. Okay. Let's just keep it at that. We're good. We got a trust team going on here. Oh, actually, no. Well, now I gotta know what Dave's up to because Dave... You don't need to know. Carries that. So you did look at Greg's wolf card. I want to know... What do you know? I just know that Greg and Todd got swapped. But we really know. Wait a minute. What? So, are you saying you doppelganged Paul? Did I stutter? Are you saying...

I'm not saying that. Okay. You're not not saying that. Absolutely. I'm not not saying that. One minute remaining. So you're okay with her having robbed you? Yeah. I'm getting big Wolfie vibes off of Megan. No. I think we have some sort of collusion going on here. Todd's not the seer. You haven't claimed anything? I haven't. Wait, there's 30 seconds left. Why isn't Todd the seer? Todd's not the seer. I was just a villager. Yeah, I don't believe that at all.

See, it's the just a villager that makes that unbelievable. 30 seconds left. Are you keeping your seer claim and you're saying he's a villager? No. I'm keeping my claim that... I saw that. Okay. I doppelganged the seer. And then as a seer, I viewed the robber. So, this is all solid. Nothing but lies coming out of here. So then you robbed somebody. I'm definitely voting for Todd. I'm voting for Megan. 3, 2, 1. Everybody knows you were lying. I'm voting for Megan. 3 on Todd. 3 on me. And I am...

Trouble maker. Megan. Crafty one. Yes! Megan! So you thought you were well done. Megan Robb-Hod. Yes. Megan Robb-Hod. Okay, the second game was the one where you robbed me of my werewolf. And David was a doppelganger. He looked at Paul, who was a seer, which meant Dave became a seer. And he looked at you and he saw that you were the robber before you robbed me of being a werewolf.

If I thought we were destined for failure after the first one, this game, there was no way we were going to figure this one out because there were too many people who saw each other as good except for you had switched. Yes. Yes. That was so much fun getting Dave on my side. And this time, the first game, I was the robber and I forgot to look at the card I robbed. This time I was the robber and I looked at the card. Thank goodness. So I knew I was a wolf. Now this became a theme.

Yes. And I had such a good time and I feel like doppelganger Dave just really helped me out on this one because he believed me when he should not have. But there was just kind of enough information for him to go along with me. And I think because of that, Paul went along with it as well because of the information between the three of us. So what a gift that was for me.

Yep. And that was one where I had lied about being the seer and said that I had seen Dave as a doppelganger, which turned out to be accurate, which was great. I thought I was going to have all of this credibility, not knowing that Dave had looked at Paul, who really was the seer. So Dave just totally did not believe my assertion, knew I was evil and then voted for me. But of course, I was no longer the wolf, thanks to your thieving hands.

For our third game, we incorporated some of the roles from Daybreak. Paul started out as a werewolf. Megan was a seer. Greg, the paranormal investigator. I was a witch and David was the insomniac that left the mystic wolf, the apprentice seer and the revealer all in the center. It's a long night. It was a long night. I don't even know where to go with this. I'm the troubleshooter, I mean the witch. The trouble witcher? You're the trouble witcher? All right.

There are roles in this game of which we have. Anybody got anything now? I can't claim Robert. I can't claim Troublemaker. How many opportunities are there to change your alignment? Well, there's the PI, the witch. The revealer? No, just the PI and the witch. The PI's own role can change and the witch can change the role of somebody else. I mean, technically PI's role doesn't change. Their alignment changes. Hi, I'm the insomniac. I don't know what to do with all this.

I'm the witch and I change somebody. Not me. But I know the role that I picked out of the middle and so I'm waiting to see if someone tries to false claim it. Okay, well, just to form a trust team here. I was the seer and I saw that you were the witch. Okay, well, I was the PI. I saw your seer and I saw the insomniac. I'm the apprentice seer and I saw the mystic wolf. So who did you reveal? Todd. Oh, right. You said that. No, he was trying to catch me in something if he could.

No, I was just forgetting things already. So are we saying that the wolves are in the center? What's happening at the back? Oh, you're saying that you... I looked at that card. It was the revealer. Then I put it in front of Greg. So... Can we pause for a second? No. I have a rules question. Well, I guess it doesn't matter. No, it's fine. Because I'm curious. If I were, say, a PI who saw somebody evil, right? And then I become the revealer, does that mean I'm no longer the evil role?

I'd say you are the role that you are now. Okay. Oh, I see, because the PI became evil. No, no, I'm not saying that. But the evil PI is now here. That means I'm the one who trusts that you're telling the truth. Which the seer says I am. Okay. So like if I saw somebody as werewolf and not the insomniac? Yeah. Wait, what? That would be worth saying. That would be worth saying as the clock ticks. Yeah, as we're down under a minute. I did not see the insomniac is what I'm saying right now.

So what did you see, Greg? I saw a werewolf. True, right, that's true. Now it all makes sense. I did see your seer and I saw Paul's werewolf. Oh. I'm not a werewolf. Only 30 seconds left. That's fun. Okay, I don't see any way out of it, Paul. Yeah, I don't either. The game's solved. That's what I feel like. It's just solved. Prove me wrong. Right. I'm serious. Yeah, I mean. There's no way out of it. Verified which? There's not enough. Gave Greg a verified good wolf. Verified seer.

Verified wolf for me. So I trust. Time is up, everyone. Three, two, one. Vault. Paul votes for himself. Alright, this is stupid. I will say I think that situation, that much, that many special roles, that much chaos is something that our group is never going to be like, that was our fave. We don't like that, right? And we don't like someone to be in a situation where it's just proven there's no way out for them. That's not fun for us.

Typically, we are, you know, remember in the Ticket to Ride episode, I mentioned that one of my desires is for like a sommelier of Ticket to Ride. Someone who should tell me what to play or whatever. I feel like for roles in One Night Werewolf beyond the base game, you kind of need a pick and choose. I think going full bore one of the others tends to lead to chaos and is not balanced the way we enjoy. Now, I know there are many groups out there that enjoy the chaos.

And to them, I say, more power to you. I am so thrilled you enjoy it. But on this podcast, we are talking about what we enjoy and what makes things replayable to us. And I will say that a situation where someone just feels like, hey, it's solved. There's no way out for me because of the information the rest of the group has. The whole basis for this social deduction style game is supposed to be that you have an informed minority versus an uninformed majority.

Well, in that case, the balance wasn't right. And the majority got too much information. But there's also a function of that was due to where the roles wound up. Sure. Right. Like the Mystic Wolf should have had more information for Team Evil, but it was in the middle. And the paranormal investigator is supposed to be a wild card in that they could go evil or they could be good.

In Greg's case, he actually did become evil because he looked at you and then he looked at Wolf Paul and he became evil. But then I, as the witch, looked at the Revealer and I gave it to Greg. So we couldn't find an actual ruling to see where Greg's alignment went at that point because he was evil by his own actions, but then was given a good role.

And in keeping with the idea that you robbed a wolf and now I didn't realize I was good, we decided that Greg was now a good player again and he was able to give up Wolf Paul. So I think part of that is also just how the roles fall. And in that particular game, it really went hard against Paul. But it's four minutes. Yes. Thank goodness for that. For our final game, we played a three team extravaganza, incorporating roles from both Daybreak and Vampire.

Megan was the Mystic Wolf. David was the Count, who gave a mark of the vampire to Paul and a mark of fear to Megan. Paul was the Seer, Greg was the Troublemaker, I was the Priest, which left a witch, a vampire, and a werewolf all in the center. Wake up! We have four minutes to figure out this crazy mess. I am the troubleshooter. You can all rest at ease. Nice. I'm Troubleshooter Junior. Oh! Wow. This game shall be solved. Excellent. Let's solve it. Here, please. Play them away.

I don't know, I'm just gonna...I don't...I'm just gonna be honest. I don't really know... What's happening? That's a trustworthy thing to say. You're already off to a bad start. Really? Wait, wait, wait, wait. Look at the hungry eyes Megan has. I know. She's looking her chops. No, no, no. No, you didn't... Because this is me. You didn't give anybody your protection? I'm not the Priest. Wait, you said you were gonna be honest. Oh, he lied. Oh my god. Dave. I know. I know.

Oh, how can we build trust like this? So I can guarantee this is a mark of clarity. Well... Dan. Thank you. Did you give me this? Thank you. No, I did not say that. No, he gave me this. I'm a Priest. One mark of clarity here. Okay. One mark of clarity there. So, I'm very confused, Megan. Because I claimed witch? Yeah. Why are you confused by that? Because I'm the witch. So, who'd you witch? Why do you care, Rushi? I'm the witch. Witch you witch. Did that to Dave. What was it?

I was supposed to look. Just let the Robbers take it for yourself. Alright, so let's just set that off the side right now. I'm the witch. I'm the witch. Okay. Witch? No. I was the witch. I just played it poorly. I mean, she did make the same mistake with the Robber earlier. You're going to give yourself a wolf while you're at it? I said I think honesty is the best policy. I am the witch. Except when you lied. And I made Dave the vampire. It was right here. Okay. Oh. Alright. That's...

Interesting. So, that means my wolf went in here? Correct. Okay. And did you have a wolf partner? I mean, you owe them the wolf thing. I don't know if I'm going to rat anybody out yet. As he gestures to make him. Okay. I was the seer. I saw the witch here and a werewolf here. So, Paul is lying. So, I think he is the vampire. If he made you a vampire, you're no longer the vampire. One minute remaining. We've only got a minute. Yeah. Yes. I didn't... So, I'm trouble-making. Paul is lying.

Well, I believe you might know... Well, no, you wouldn't know what you are, but I don't know. Who'd you trouble me with, Greg? I think it's time. I trouble made these two. You turned the priest into a vampire. Apparently. Ironically. That's hilarious. I'm not believing that whatsoever. Why wouldn't you? Because Paul believes it. What did you say you don't want to be true? I saw a witch and werewolf. And so that means Paul is lying. Before the witch happened.

Oh, yeah, and you say you saw a witch. Yes. But when I looked at this card, it was a vampire. Well, Paul is lying. Okay, I actually trouble-made you two. Real talk. Real talk. I trouble-made you two evil. Well, let me know if you were evil. Say it now. I'm voting Dave. Telling me something is never wrong. Everyone. Three. Two. One. Vote. Jesus, how does this work? Dave has three. And Todd and I have one. So, all three of us die. Okay. We got a vampire, we got a wolf. And a priest!

The village wins. The village wins! How do you think that one went? Not great. It was fun. But do I want to replay that set with that number of people? No. It was too much happening for too few players. Right. There were only five of us. Tough to make three teams work in that setting. But it's fun to be special. You know, back when we played Werewolf by Forum, there would be role sets that are everybody's special. But those were really fine-tuned by the community.

You know, they really were, they had that precision balance. And I don't know that what we set up for that last game was so finely tuned. But still fun. We ended up not having any wolves on the table, technically. That one was crazy. Let's go on to the prompts. Weight and complexity. On Board Game Geek's scale of one to five, how would you rate the complexity of One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I think this is a fun thing to think through.

And I'm not sure how the rest of our group would feel, or even how you're going to feel about my answer to this. Right. I'm going to say a three based on my experience playing it with our group and with other people who have extensive werewolf experience. Okay. I think there are groups that you could play this game where maybe it wouldn't be so complex. I have certainly, I haven't played this game.

I have certainly played Werewolf in groups where the game was nowhere near as complex, just because the play wasn't as sophisticated. Oh, man, I sound like a jerk saying that, but it's just true. Why don't you take two on that one? It's just true. You know, I'm not saying I'm the LeBron James of Werewolf, but maybe I am. And I think LeBron James going and playing basketball at just a local park versus playing in the NBA, those are different experiences, right?

And for us who have played a lot of social deduction style games, what we are doing, the level we're on, I think the game's a three. I'm curious what you think of that. You know, between this and the next question, I think we're going to have complementary answers. I had this down as a two. I mean, I had it down as, you know, really you're having to bluff and read people and it plays very quickly. I don't know if there's a lot of time for that complexity to really insert itself.

And yet kind of what you're saying, there are ploys, there are gambits you're going to try that after you've had a lot more experience with the game, they're going to occur to you. You're going to be like, OK, well, I'm going to start out by saying I'm the troublemaker and I swap these two people and see where it goes. But then I need to be able to back off of that convincingly that I'm not a minion and come up with a different role claim. And seeing that takes time.

So I can see where it gets to be more complex. And then definitely the more roles you start adding, it's almost like you can dial the complexity up or down. So strategy, how much opportunity is there for strategy and long term planning? So I will say this is where I had my three. It may sound weird because, you know, I don't think the game's that complex and strategy again for minutes. How much time is there? But it's really tied to those interactions of the selected roles.

And if you want to lie convincingly, you need to understand how to exploit them. And so you have to at least have an idea of what you're going to try to accomplish. And then chaos ensues. I agree with you entirely. I think strategy is a three. I would also say I think of it as a three strategically because One Night Werewolf, in my experience, is not a game that people typically play just once and then put away. You're playing it multiple times.

And so if you see a wolf win game one using a certain strategy, well, suddenly maybe that isn't going to work that next game. And so it's thinking, OK, I just pulled wolf. What am I going to do going into this next game and what's going into that third game? So I think your your plans and your plays have to evolve as you're playing. And I think that is part of the strategic thinking, even though a specific game is only taking four minutes.

Right. So then luck. How much do you think luck plays a factor in One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I think if you've constructed your role sets, well, not much at all. I would say a one. However, if you're sloppy, then I think luck becomes much more involved. Like in the situation Paul wound up in in that game that got solved. Some of that is just luck. People looked at this person, not that person, and there's not a strategy in those choices. So you said one, but so is there an actual number?

Oh, I still think one, as long as you've constructed smartly. Yeah. What do you think? I had it down as a two just because there is the luck of the draw. And you're right. There is also the luck of who picks what. It feels like there are enough times where we said, hey, you know, this should have been a balanced role set and it didn't turn out that way. That's fine. Again, four minutes. No, no harm, no foul, really. But I think luck is more than a one in my mind.

So theme, how much do you think the theme has been integrated with it? I had trouble coming up with the number on this one, because when you talk to someone about werewolf, they say, oh, mafia. And is One Night Werewolf all that different? And even then we have all these different versions, vampires, aliens. So even the people making the game don't think the theme is that intrinsic to it. Right.

At the same time, I love it. I love the vibe, the app in the music, the narrating by Eric Summer is just perfect. And so I'm going to say a four because I don't think it's as good as, say, a wingspan. But for me, it is a right fit and it fits better than aliens or some of these others. I'm curious what you think. Am I looking through rose colored glasses? And am I too biased and subjective here? I had it down as a five, so I don't think you're rosy enough.

I really like the artwork and I like that it's us versus them, good versus evil. And I think that comes through more in the werewolf setting more than the mafia setting. And I agree. The app is fantastic. It sets the scene right. I can't imagine it having any better theme than the one it does. So what's your favorite player count? Any. I just love playing the game. I want to play it. So any of the eligible player counts I'm good with. How about you?

At six or seven, I think is where it really shines. I think when you start getting to ten, it's too many. The nights are forever trying to get through to the point where you can actually start talking and then keep track of everything. I think what we played five was good, but it felt just a little underrepresented. Like we could have really benefited from one or two more roles in each of those games. So that means six or seven players is the sweet spot.

So do you have a least favorite player count? If you're just looking to play, then. Yeah, I would agree with you that at the ten range, it feels a bit much. And that's where it feels like maybe it should be werewolf. Actual standard werewolf. I think that, you know, especially like eleven man. And of course, I think one night only goes to ten because I think eleven is where real werewolf starts to shine.

Ten is a little bit much, and especially because maybe we'll talk about this later. I don't know. We are doing things during the night. You know, we are all kind of making noises, bumping the table, doing things to try to hide for people who are doing their role, playing out those actions and maybe accidentally making those noises. And that gets a little like, right, doing that for a long time. You know, the hardest part is is remembering to do it when you're doing the actions. Yes.

So if I'm tapping my leg trying to make covering sounds, but then I'm a wolf and I'm looking at, you know, a roll from the center, then if I stop tapping, someone's going to think, oh, Todd was doing something. Yes. Yes. Maybe if I'm a minion, I should be doing that. But for me, my least favorite player count would be three. You know, three players do something else. Yeah, maybe play coup, which I really like. So actual playing time. Now the box says 10 minutes.

And I'm going to say that, you know, the ones we played that night were four minutes. They felt a little fast to me. But I would say five minutes is four to five minutes is probably where I would like to play the game because the time investment isn't so great. How do you feel about the playing time? I felt four minutes felt fine. I would say, you know, it does take longer to play than the actual four minutes because of the night phase and the setup prior to that.

So I think if you are counting the time where you are shuffling the cards and getting those distributed out, everyone takes a look at their role. OK, now we're doing night phase. You do the night phase, then you do the four minutes of deliberation. I think 10 minutes actually sounds pretty close to right. OK, you're right. I didn't think about the night phase and the setup afterwards. And then there's the bemoaning afterwards.

So that all. Sure. Factors into the timer before you start the next one. The pillow talk, as David says, expansions. Now, it actually turns out there aren't very many expansions to this. What there are are standalone games with which it can be integrated. So we mentioned Daybreak Vampires, Aliens. There's also, I think, superheroes and supervillains. And all of those can be incorporated to create one monstrosity of a role set if you so chose. Do you have a favorite? The base game is my favorite.

I think that overall, my feeling is that those standalone games that can be integrated, there's a lot that puts things out of balance. And I think that sometimes there are roles there that are just there to create chaos in a way that isn't enjoyable for me. But again, there's people that love them. More power to them. I'm glad you enjoy them. For me, I like something that feels tight and like given this set of roles, anyone could win.

It's how you play. And I want everyone to feel like they have a part because for me, villagers are a very powerful role and can be really fun to play. So I want people to come and have that experience and not feel like the worst thing to me is to play a game and then someone wins. And you don't really see how it got to that point. How did the actions we took in the game lead to this? Did it just feel random?

And what happened to Paul in that one game where he got trapped, that didn't feel random. It wasn't great, but at least we could see, okay, here's why this happened because of the actions we took, not just that there was something random that happened in the game. And so, yeah, that is my concern with some of those others, though I think there's also roles within those that are really fun. But I think it's a pick and choose type situation.

I agree with that. There were a couple of the roles that came out of Daybreak. Like we talked about the witch. I thought the mystic wolf was pretty cool that I liked. I actually do like the marks in vampire, but that's pretty much the end of my exploration. Like once we start looking at aliens, it kind of goes right out and starts becoming too many layers of chaos.

I think there is definitely room for, like you were saying, was it the sommelier analogy of someone who actually knows how to put together a pretty tight group of roles? Because some of the ones that we played were suggested ones and they felt fairly chaotic. It feels like maybe Ted Alspach leans towards more of the chaotic for fun, but he might be doing that because that's what the market's telling him they like. Yeah, absolutely.

So most recognizable comparison, the highest ranking game that reminds you the most of One Night Ultimate Werewolf. What did you have for this? So I said the resistance Avalon. Just I have them kind of connected in my mind. You know, Avalon isn't as quick, but for me, it kind of hit around the same point, you know, with our group. And has obviously that same social deduction experience and yeah, also a game that I really enjoy. How about you? Resistance Avalon is a great pick.

I have fond memories of that one because the designer is Don Eskridge and he would come down to the social gaming corridor Friday nights at BGGCon and play test roles for his upcoming expansions to it. And, you know, that was always fun going in there and seeing how the sausage was made when you're doing these social deduction games. And I think that Merlin mechanic is essential to make Resistance a fully fledged game. As a backup, though, because I figured one of us was going to say it.

I also had a backup. Did you? Okay. So mine was Secret Hitler. And let's just acknowledge it's an intentionally selected, objectionable theme. It could have been anything, did you have to pick that? But the gameplay behind it is really solid and it does a good job of providing a framework for deception. And the policies that are being voted on are similar to the missions being attempted in Resistance. It's not surprising that those two games feel similar in my mind. What was your backup?

Well, my backup was kind of a stretch, but I said another game from the podcast, Mind MGMT. Just because it also feels very thematic and there is that someone is trying to do something and everyone is guessing and trying to figure out what is really happening with them. So a bit of a stretch, but another option there. So what was your less recognizable comparison? I thought through a number of options for this, but I'm going to go with Spyfall. Oh, yes.

I think fun game, one that plays pretty quickly. And essentially, if people don't know how the game works, you're in a group and everyone but one person in the group will get cards with a location. And then one person gets a card saying they're the spy. And then you are asking questions around the group. And essentially, the spy wins if they can guess the location that everyone else is at and everyone else wins if they can guess who the spy is.

So it's got that social deduction and it plays quickly. Those are pretty much the only two things in common, but a really, really fun little party game there. Yeah, that's a great one. I will say that one is also hard the first couple of times that you're the spy because if you don't know what the pictures look like at all, you don't even know what to say might apply.

Like if you're on a ship, right, you might not know that the different things that are in that picture to say, oh, yeah, well, there's so and so. Whereas after you've done it a couple of times, if you get a location with which you've at least seen the picture, you're going to lie more convincingly. I had bang the dice game. So the original bang is another social deduction game where you are outlaws and possibly a renegade.

And it's up to the sheriff, the deputy and the townspeople to find and shoot the outlaws. But in the dice game version, it's similar play style. You still have the same grouping of people and roles only now you have like the dice that help to provide a cover story. So you have to allocate the dice that you rolled and sometimes it's like, well, I rolled the gunshot. I'm going to have to shoot somebody. This isn't going to kill you. So I'm but I am going to sign it to you.

Now, you might be assigning that to a deputy and because you're an outlaw, but you have somewhat of a built in cover story for why you're doing what people believe you remains to be seen. But I really like bang the dice game. House rules. Would you add any house rules beyond the Somalia?

I think I don't know that I would like formalize this as a house rule, but I think you do need to be able to play with people who shake off the last game, move on to the next one that aren't still just focusing on that. But I will say also, I just really enjoy playing with people who are excited about it, are having fun with it. I suppose I'm trying to skirt around that. I like to play with our group.

I like to play with people who've played werewolf by forum, other people who are enjoying it just as much. I think that really adds to the experience. But I'm sure there's other people out there that also think about the game this way and enjoy it this much. So I don't want to say just our group, but people who are going to bring the same level of energy to the game as our group does. That tends to be fun.

It's tough when you have people who don't really care or they'll just king make or whatever because they're just not really into it. That's less fun for me. How about you? I think the game should be over fast enough that it really doesn't need house rules. But the one thing that I did appreciate we did was standing up during the night phase because you don't want someone's creaking chair to give away that they're shifting because of their role actions.

But otherwise, I think the game is pretty short and straightforward. So if you're playing it at game night, then what do you want to play along with it? Maybe not afterwards because this is already a pretty light game. So is there a different game that you'd rather play before it? I think because this is so light and it's so interactive, I think there's an opportunity to play along with it a longer game that maybe isn't as interactive.

There are some games that our group enjoys that can be pretty heads down play or you're just determining what you're doing on your turn and what the others are doing on their turn doesn't really matter. So I think this combined with one of those would make an excellent game night. OK, I was trying to keep it in theme. I thought what would be a bigger game or a heavier game that had a trader mechanic? And my all time favorite of that category would be Battlestar Galactica.

But obviously that's been out of print for a long time. It's now unfathomable with a Cthulhu theme. A different one might be Nemesis. Same thing where you have a group of players that are trying to escape the aliens and then wash it down with One Night Ultimate Werewolf. What feature of the game still stands out to you? So what do you still like best about One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I think it's the Reese's Cub combo of tight social deduction with a short time frame, a short playing time.

I think something about those two, it's two great tastes that taste great together. I mean, I feel like that is what we keep coming back to as we're talking today is the fact that we love the werewolf experience. But the bummer with werewolf is when you get voted out early and the game's taking such a long time or someone's made a mistake. And now all this time was taken up. It's so nice to just have that experience in that quick time period. Yes, absolutely.

I had something very similar and that for me it was the app that provides the narration and the moderator. This is one of the best combinations of physical game and digital app that I can recall. It allows everyone to play instead of dedicating someone that has to be the moderator. That's a great point. What feature of the game now disappoints? What may stand out as something that's not your favorite about this game? And I'll just say it starts to feel very samey.

Like if you play four or five times in the same night, many roles and even game combinations if you're adding them in serve to add chaos. And that's fine. But it makes it more of an activity than a game because we're not finding those logic paths that our particular group likes to find. I would agree with that. I don't know that there's anything beyond that that I would think of something I don't enjoy about it. All right. So did this game replace a previous one for you?

I mean, it replaced werewolf, I think. That's what I had. And I mean, we used to play werewolf. We used to have werewolf nights, right? And now we are not playing as part of that larger group anymore. But I also don't even see us seeking it out. We're not talking about like, hey, some night we need to get together and get 13 people. We aren't having those conversations. And I think because when we want that itch scratched, we scratch it with one night ultimate werewolf. And we are satisfied.

And I completely agree. I mean, outside of game conventions and the forum games, it has completely replaced werewolf for me as well. So has this game since been replaced? And if so, by what? I'm going to say if anything has replaced it, it would be Resistance Avalon. But really, I don't think we play that more than we play one night. So no, it hasn't been replaced. I would agree. Has not been replaced. I think it's great. And honestly, at this point, I can't imagine it being replaced.

I think it is such a good combination of the mechanics and I don't know if someone, some game designer out there wants to prove me wrong. I mean, bring it. I would love to see. But yeah, so far, no, this is good. Good job, Ted. We're going to skip over soundtrack because you should be listening to the app. Rating on board game geek scale of one to ten, no decimals. How would you rate one night ultimate werewolf? And I'm really interested in your answer on this one. Oh, it's a ten. It's a ten.

You know, I am a werewolf girly and this is a werewolf in such a wonderful, delightful little format. I for me, if this wasn't a ten, I would what could possibly be for me? I don't know. It is just absolutely the experience I want for listeners to this podcast. You may not know back in the day, I had a podcast all about playing werewolf and our werewolf playback forum group. I love werewolf talking about werewolf, thinking about werewolf and this. And you are aware and I am a werewolf.

And so when I ultimate werewolf is a ten, it's a pantheon kind of game. It's a Mount Rushmore game for me. I love it. Yeah, well, I almost wanted to like duck because I have it down as a seven. There was a time where. Todd, what? OK, tell me I want to know your reasoning and then I will convince you that you're wrong. OK, go. Nice. I mean, there was probably a time for me when it was an eight. It was really popular and we played it to death and I played this so many times with my kids.

It started feeling so samey that I have fun when it's suggested, but I'm never reaching for this game and suggesting it. Oh, my gosh. It's a seven. OK, so I guess thank goodness I don't have children because maybe they would ruin the game for me. No, no, no. Wow. I'm shocked, but I figured everyone in our group, everyone, it was a solid ten, except for the person in our group who doesn't like social deduction games, but everyone else solid ten. And I this is blowing my mind.

That is a seven, a seven Todd. Wow. Where is where is a traditional ultimate werewolf for you? Oh, traditional were. See, here's the problem you're going to run into with that is I don't know if I've ever played traditional werewolf to the end without playing with all of our friends from the forum at BGGCon.

And that is a completely different realm for me, because a lot of times we were coming in with experimental role sets and being able to talk trash with each other, just like we would on the forums that that was elevated for me. Really love that. Werewolf. When we played it locally, we would have werewolf nights. Wow. I know that was happening with the OC board gamers group, but I didn't go to those events. Wow. OK. Fascinating.

Wow. Wow. I this is blowing my mind. I'm learning so much about you today or today. I just never saw this coming. So will you feel better if I say it's an eight? If I if I give it the eight it used to have, I would feel better. I'm just surprised. I think it's an eight. I think it's not getting any higher than that. I think of like our love of werewolf and as being such a unifying piece of our group. I'm even thinking back to there was a year many years ago when I was Todd's secret Santa.

I was the Santa. You were my target. Right. And yes, I wrapped the gift. I wanted it to be somewhat werewolf themed. So I wrapped it in red plain red wrapping paper. And then there was some sort of other wrapping paper around it that I then like used a razor blade and cut across. So it would look like claw marks had gone through. It was fantastic wrapping paper. Because I was like, this will be like a werewolf wrapped this Christmas present. How fun and festive and delightful.

Because of our deep love of werewolf. And now I'm finding out that you're like werewolf is fine. I love the players. Just the experiences. And that, by the way, that gift was fantastic. By far it wins the best secret Santa wrapped gift I've ever seen. And it made such an impression on Dave that he started thinking he received that gift. You remember this? That's right. He started saying, I remember I got this gift and you're like, wait, nobody else wrapped it like that.

And Todd was my target. And he was like, oh, yeah, I guess I just I really liked it. I wish it had been mine. Yeah, I'm so surprised. Now I feel like I need to find ways to help you experience the joy that I have in playing werewolf. This may be a New Year's resolution for me in 2024. RUT ROW. OK, so I guess then, you know, the final question, is it replayable and how soon do you want to revisit the game?

And apparently you want to start playing it all the time. So I improve my score. But really, what's your answer? Yeah, I find the game absolutely replayable. I am always up for a game. And I think especially because it's so easy to set up and put away, I think a little one or two rounds of it once or twice a month sounds great to me. And I think I don't know that I've said that about any of the other games we've talked about.

So probably about as replayable as any game could be is this game for me. How about for you? So it's definitely replayable and I do enjoy it. And I could play it during a game evening once every couple of months and that'd be fine. But I don't think I could do it every week. I would start to be like, all right, it's time to do the one night ultimate werewolf thing. I guess it's time for me to head out or maybe I'll just sit off to the side and be like the golf announcer.

Yeah, every week would be a bit much, but I don't know what I would want to play every week. But once a month sounds pretty good. All right. Well, so this is our final episode that we are recording in 2023. And of course, it's going to publish on New Year's Day at ironically midnight for us in the Pacific time zone. Any holiday wishes you want to pass along? Well, a happy New Year to everyone who's listening to replayable. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

This has been such a fun experience for all of us. And I can't wait for all of you to go review the podcast, subscribe, do all those things you're supposed to do to support the podcast. We would love for people to do that in 2024. Thank you very much for being here. This was a lot of fun. Thank you for having me, Todd. And let's go eat some villagers. Om nom nom. Well, hey, this is Dave, gelatinous goo on Board Game Geek.

Thanks for joining us this year with replayable and look forward to another year of digging in. So happy New Year. Happy New Year. And this is Todd wishing you all a wonderful 2024 filled with friends, family and games. Thank you for choosing to spend your time with us on replayable. For our next episode, we'll talk about a game that defined a genre along with a surprise guest. Happy New Year. Thank you for listening to replayable. Support for our podcast comes from listeners like you.

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