(upbeat music) - Welcome to Replayable, where we go to depth on our favorite tabletop games that keep us coming back again and again. I'm the start player Todd, and today I'm joined by Megan and Paul, for our 25th episode, we'll be taking some afternoon tea and then strolling along the promenade with Obsession. It was designed by Dan Halligan, who also did the artwork and the publishing, as it was released by Came to Games in 2018. Have you two heard the rumors about Miss Ann Fairborn?
(sighing) - I heard she's in American areas, so I'd love to have her over. - A scandal. (laughing) - Obsession is a theme first board game set in Victorian England. Players assume the mantles of families with good histories that have just emerged from trying times. Build your estates, manage your staff, entertain guests, and climb the social ladder to win. Let's talk about this Victorian England theme. I mean, this is such a popular theme. It's amazing how well it resonates.
- And not just in board gaming and all sorts of media, right? (laughing) - Right, absolutely. There have been countless shows about this. - Yeah, I mean, my wife says, let's play the doubt-nabby game when she wants to play obsession. - Exactly, and there was the original upstairs downstairs back in, what, 1971 or early 1970s? - Well, and I think you can't discount the fact that there is still this real-life aristocracy over in England that we were just talking about.
In the news right now, people are talking about Kate Middleton, right? There's people that still have these titles that we giggle over when someone's a baronet or if I count or something, because that feels so old-fashioned. But there's literally people-- - I can't not giggle. - Yeah, there's literally people with those titles today fascinating that there's pop culture that's obsessed with the history of this. But yeah, it's still with us.
- Yeah, it's just, I've been thinking about the unending fascination and love of Jane Austen's stories and the like. I mean, we just keep remaking movies and TV series around her original works. - Yeah, absolutely, and I'll be honest, I've read Pride and Prejudice, but I think that's it as far as her works go. Oh, Megan, just to look on your face. All right, do tell, what is the required reading shelf here?
- Oh, "Northanger Abbey" is probably my fave, but Mansfield Park is actually probably the best, and it's also the weirdest. - Okay. - But I mean, some sensibility is just really lovely. Emma, I will say, is a little bit of a slog, but Mr. Knightley might be the dreamiest Austen man, though Persuasion, that also includes a very dreamy Austen man. So, I know you didn't realize there were so many books. - I think there was the humblest flexing I've ever seen or heard.
- There are others, there was just a movie, and I can't remember the name, that actress was previously married to Michael Sheen, British, anyway. They just adapted Lady Susan, which was an unfinished Austen book, by just, I mean, within the last 10 years. - Compared to Victorian England, that's recent. - And that's a really, the movie's really fun. So, yeah, there's lots out there.
- With this popular theme that resonates with everyone, we're supposed to be families setting these times, and I think it's interesting, because all the families are given a common background, right, that they have good histories, but they've gone through some trying times. What were these trying times that we've emerged into this setting for obsession? - Well, it was a tumultuous time. I mean, there were recessions, there was a great banking panic.
You know, child labor laws were coming out, industrialization was happening, the great potato famine occurred. So, I think there is latitude for each player to make up their own story about how their estate and family fell on hard times. Maybe it was a horrible investment. Maybe they had to send all the kids that worked for them to school, or maybe all their trade ships either got sunk in a storm or were attacked by pirates. It's really up to you. - This game is begging for that
fill-in narrative role-playing aspect, isn't it? I think so. I wanna hear from Megan. - I was just gonna say, I think people that accumulate power and prestige, they do that in a particular circumstance, right? And especially when that's done within a family setting. You know, you have a generation that is a war hero, and so the king bestows some property and a title on you. And maybe the next generation, someone's very savvy, they're able to make that flourish.
But then the generation after that maybe doesn't know what they're doing. You know, or maybe the tactics that worked for the generation before don't work for you anymore. Either because technologies change or because society's moral compass has kicked in and you realize that, hey, what we were doing in the Caribbean wasn't so hot. And we in fact need to reconcile with that, right? And deal with that.
And so that's, I don't want to gloss over, we're talking about child labor laws change and could impact these families. Yeah, 'cause those laws needed to change, you know? And these families were exploiting people. Like that's possible, right? So I just don't want to make it sound like, oh, these poor families, like they may have contributed to their own tough times with the choices they made. But of course, you know, we get to bring that into them.
And I'll say, whenever we play, when we're talking about these families that have names that are still part of the royal family today, like Wessex or York, I am often talking about the people in those families and the choices they've made because I think that contributes something to it. But also I just want to show off that I know those things. (laughing) - Well, family Wessex was definitely feeling some shade coming their way from family York last time we played this game.
- Yeah. - Let's talk about the game. And for a game that claims not to focus on strategy, and we can talk about the two different lengths of the game, but in the basic game, every turn feels absolutely essential. How do you feel about the pacing of the game? - Yes, I agree. And I don't think that changes whether you're playing standard or extended. Every turn, I feel like if I mess up too much, I'll lose the game, right? Megan, how do you feel about it?
- Yeah, completely agree, though I will say, I think that is somewhat our group. And I think that context, we are always pushing for making the most of each turn. And we are certainly a group that believes strongly in trying to win. And someone not even trying to win just being in it for the experience is something that I don't think our group would tolerate for very long. - Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're happy to let anybody come and lose at our table.
(laughing) - As long as they sit to the right of me. - It blows. But we, you know, often within our group, we are counting on other players to take certain actions that we would consider best practice. Someone, someone doesn't do that. We're like, oh, you know, and this game, I think allows for a little bit less of that to happen. But you can still be counting on someone paying attention that, you know, someone really wants to buy this building.
And so someone else should buy up that building so they don't get it. And then if that person's just not even really paying attention and they leave that building there for the person to grab, then that would be something that our group would express frustration over. - True, true. - Like, come on, you're not even trying. - Yes, yes, I don't think we would be rude, but we would be like, hey, so anyway, I will say every turn feeling essential, I feel like that is somewhat our culture.
But I think that is also, if you're actually paying attention to the game, that's what it is. This isn't an experience. This isn't Tokaido or, you know, some of those other games that are just there for vibes. This is not a just vibes game. - Yeah, I would agree with that. And it doesn't foment long-term strategy it feels like because there are so many random elements, and we could talk about those, whether it's the tiles coming out of the bag, or if it's drawing the guest cards.
And yet, if I'm trying to be competitive for the next courtship phase, I know that I'm gonna have to try to bring on one or two more estate tiles of a certain type or activity tiles. I'm gonna need to maybe reset my hand once. And suddenly, I've got a map to follow to get to that next courtship. And I just think it's delightful the way that this game allows you to find whatever depth you're comfortable with.
- Yeah, and I think both of you are referring to the competition over the theme of the season, correct? - Right. - So the building purchase Megan was talking about, if you don't take it, somebody else who might be tied to win the theme could be the outright winner, which would be bad for the whole table. (laughing) - I don't think so. (laughing) - Wow. - Yeah.
(laughing) - I mean, it got to the point where I was looking at, like on a turn, did I want to buy an upgrade now and spend money because obviously that's a tempo, right? That's something that gets added to my tableau and increases my points going. But if there wasn't a themed room on the market yet, I would either be bringing one on for someone else to buy or making something really good for them cheaper. I started thinking, maybe I don't want to buy this just yet.
Maybe I'll just conserve my money now and be ready to buy an expensive tile that comes out freshly onto the track. And is that one of the more expensive spots? What's the top spot, 800 pounds? - Mm-hmm. - So be ready to buy that one when someone else reveals it for me. I mean, I just think it's very interesting how much you can read into this game if you're so inclined. - Sure. Planning for the Village Fair really optional.
We have one person in our group who I think has yet to effectively do it. And I think he's effectively been last in the last few games we've played. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this game. - Well, the sample size is too small. (laughing) But I think-- - But the results are very high. - Yeah, I think there is a shortage of turns. If you want to do the Village Fair planning, you should do it before the first Village Fair. And that means you've only got two opportunities to do so.
So I think it should be a choice. Do you want to plan for the Village Fair? Or do you want to try and compete for the theme and win the first courtship? - Right. - I think it should be either or. - Hmm, okay. - But it doesn't need to be if the first courtship you're going for the brown tiles. - Right, so you're getting that flip. - Well, that would be definitely a reason too because. - Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, because that flips it from three to zero. - Yeah. - I'd forgotten about that.
- Oh, that's right. - Yep, that makes sense. - So that's when it's in tip team for multiple people to avoid planning for the Village Fair when the first theme card is the brown essentials card. - That's interesting. If you do have that dynamic where the first theme you're going for is the brown tiles. And so you have two people who decide not to do Village Fair planning because that haunts them every time there's a Village Fair, right? And. - The people, they're not going to like my family.
- One of them is going to lose that first courtship then, you know, and so that in a way is beneficial to everyone else who does the Village Fair planning because they at least have a leg up on the loser because that person didn't get the Village Fair nor did they get the Fair Child. So instead of Fair Fair, it's lose lose. (laughing) - This game can be very cutthroat. - Oh, absolutely. - I mean, how many times do you want to buy a servant
or hire a servant and there's just none of the kind you want available? - Mm-hmm. - Or there are several cards in the game or as well as a tile called the Servants Hall which are gossip basically you steal a reputation from somebody else and give it to yourself. - Yes, there's definitely more thought to theme than I will say well-roundedness or balance.
I mean, if there are some things that turn out to be unfair or overly chaotic, they're fine as long as you look at them within the love of this theme and environment you're replicating. - Right, isn't that on the box cover? (laughing) - It was definitely on their site. I don't know if it's on the box cover. I went to the website and it even said it's theme first more than any game you now own. It sacrifices everything on the altar of theme.
It's not interested in who wins or advises the best strategy. It's interested in capturing the feel of the period which in large part is overflowing with chaotic revelations that are a staple of 19th century British literature. Pretty cool stuff. - Yes, yeah, I totally agree. And I guess my point is that there is an undercurrent of backstory to the game. - Yes. - And so you can certainly play it in a cut-throat way.
- I don't think we've yet seen it done too many times in our games, but maybe the last time we play this game we'll do this. (laughing) - So while we're talking about themes and competing for the fair child's and their what amorous nature or you're fighting for their-- - No, just their interest. - Just their interest. - You can spend time with them and have that one-on-one. - Do you have to try for them? - Yes. - I mean, there are what, four courtships
during the course of the game? - It depends. I think it really comes down to what Megan was talking about where if only one person tries for the courtship they're gonna run away with everything. But if multiple people vie for it and sometimes tie then the person who sat back and said, "Eh, I'm okay, I'm not gonna pursue that," ends up ahead. - Megan, you disagree? - Yes. Well, I don't, because of a qualification he put on what he said.
Essentially, I think, yes, you can't just let someone go for it. And I will say, you know, we played the other night and it was clear that Todd was like, I wanna see a fair child as often as possible. And I was like, I cannot, I don't see anyone else fighting for whatever the second one was. And so I was like, I have to get in it. I have to do this because if we let Todd win this he wins the game. And so, you know, there is that you have to look around.
Now it is a bummer when you're like, man, I'm not really set up to do this, but no one else is doing this. - Right. - And so you have to make that decision. Maybe I didn't make the right decision. But in the moment, I felt like I have to make him a little scared to make his decisions a little harder that felt like what I needed to do in the moment. And so, yeah, when someone's saying that, oh, this game is just like fluffy having people over for tea.
No, it is forcing pretty conflict heavy choices. - Yeah, I recall the game we had most recently, Todd and Dave were fighting like cats and dogs for the very first courtship. And then like you said, the second courtship that turned over was sporting and Todd was already in the lead. And you tried to compete with them, but unfortunately you were not able to get the reputation you required to use your newly constructed fields, right? - Mm-hmm.
- And then the third courtship theme was estates, which fell into your lap. Todd had completely ignored. - Yeah, exactly. - You hadn't even flipped your first starting building for that theme. - Right. - So you just gave up on that, but then the final courtship card turned over and it was green, which you were way ahead of everybody else already. So yeah, we were like, oh, it's over. - Right. I even had the objective card that said plus one point for every green tile in your tableau.
I mean, that was just paying dividends. And yet it wasn't enough. (laughs) - Just barely, just barely. It was very close game, yes. - Which comes down to those guest cards. So what are your thoughts about drawing guest cards? There's a lot of fun. Obviously that's where a lot of the role play starts coming in when we start gossiping about the personalities that are on there. And yet they're not all good. - Megan, the American Air is Hunter. Oh my gosh. Was that two games ago?
Where she like drew all of them? - Yeah, and immediately I took their money then immediately dismissed them. It was awesome. (laughs) - You took them to watch the horses and say goodbye. - So I didn't get that reputation hit. It was great. (laughs) I think if you want to win the game that drawing a lot of guest cards is essential, to me it's the most important thing. Once you've gotten to at least three reputation. - Okay. And why is that just because they are points?
- Because they are points and because of the efficiency. So the activities have a maximum. I mean, they have a required number of guests, but it goes from a low number to slightly higher and higher numbers. So the more favors you can get with a single guest, the more explosive your growth is going to be. And so the prestigious guests are super essential and you want to have at least three of them right.
- I also think that it's not that you necessarily need to acquire a huge stable of guests because you can be dismissing them and getting rid of them. And there's multiple ways of doing that in the game. But I think the more you have, it gives you more options. You know, when an activity requires two ladies, well, if all you have are ladies that require the ladies made and you just have one ladies made or you have two, but one of them isn't ready to serve again. You're, uh-oh. - Right.
- But when you have other guests available, other ladies who don't need the ladies made, then all of a sudden you have an option and you can do that activity you want. And so making sure that you're having those guests, even if they're going to turn and leave your hand or whatever, it just gives you options and you're not so backed into corners, which is so important as we talked about, 'cause you don't want to have a wasted turn in this game.
So having that flexibility means you're not wasting those turns. - Right. - Yep, and sometimes you just have to invite the cad to your party. (laughing) - Absolutely. - Yeah, the other thing I like about having those cards in my hand is it prolongs the amount of time before I need to pass and recover my debt, right? Which, at least without the expansion, that feels more like a lost move that I'm just, like we talked about it in Anno 1800, right?
With the idea of festival hanging, can I postpone having to do that? Unless there is someone that I really, whose powers I really want to reuse again, I dislike having to pass just to recover my hand. - Right, right, you want to have really good cards in your discard before you pass, I agree. - So let's talk about the staff in this game. What would it take to open up some of their stories?
Because in all the shows that we mentioned, there's development of staff stories as well as, obviously the homeowners and the lords and the ladies and the like, what's it going to take for us to give a little more color to the folks that are helping us host all of these activities? - I think that's a delightful possibility in an expansion or something, right? Maybe the role, there's all those games that have a dice or role or whatever is the like smaller sequel game.
That could be what the servant stories, where we dig into that. - I think that's exactly what the designer's doing. So he's already released upstairs downstairs, which give you the four supplemental servants. - Right. - And I felt like I was beginning to tell stories every time I used them. Like, oh, I invite my head housemaid to help me screen the new connections that I'm gaining. Or, ah, the cook comes and makes such a wonderful meal.
But then there's a new expansion coming out this year called characters, which is gonna add even more of that. - Oh, okay. That sounds interesting. And the useful man who looks like he came out of picky blinders with his mallet who's going out and, you know, breaking knees and bringing in rents during the-- - No, no. He's building things. - No, he's not. No, he's not. All right.
Now that last game we played, Paul, the way the tiles came out really was fortuitous in that you were able to capture what three different monuments by the end of the game. Are those monuments overpowered? - I had two. - You had two? - You know, some people think they are. And so with the upstairs downstairs expansion, there is a set of monument replacement tiles, which are all worth about half as many points. - Ah, okay. - For those people who think they're overpowered.
- Yes. I remember a couple of games back. I think I ended up with three of those monuments. - You did, yeah. - They ended up being great also to help me race around the reputation track and gain reputation quickly. So they didn't just offer a bunch of points. It was also a lot of reputation which definitely helped. - Yeah. So I think it's balanced because of the cost. So if the other players allow a monument to drop down to the three or 400 pound space, then-- - That's on them.
- Yeah, you're getting a steal, totally. But if people are buying them for eight or 700 pounds plus the extra cost that they have, then I think it's very fair. - Okay. And for folks who aren't familiar, each of the colors, there are five colors of activities or tiles in the game. And each of them has a monument in that color.
And unlike the activities where if you host the activity the first time, it flips over and it usually has a better side, offers you better benefits and definitely more points, monuments can't be flipped. But there were a lot of points right out of the gate and then they do help you with the reputation. So they're pretty important. - Yeah, the game comes with an extra estate monument called the Sculpture Garden.
And you're supposed to always play with that and you're also supposed to add an extra number of monuments equal to the number of players. - Ah! - You can choose them randomly or have players decide which ones they wanna play with. - Okay, interesting. So beyond reputation and beyond the estate points, you also have objective cards. These are cards that you're managing throughout the course of the game. I think you're gonna see a total of what is it?
Six, five during the course of the game, but you wind up with three? - It depends on whether you're playing standard or extended, but yeah, you're gonna have to discard four over the course of the game. So since we end with three, that means we've seen a total of seven throughout the game. - Got it. So do you prioritize those? How much emphasis do you place upon trying to fulfill one of those objective cards? - I definitely want to fulfill them.
And there is that nice tension of their objectives that are hard to fulfill, but that's worth a lot of points. Some ones that are easier to fulfill, but not worth as many points. And so it's all about what do you keep? And are you saying I want the sure thing that's gonna give me five points? Or do I want the stretch that's gonna maybe be worth 20 some points? And our last game, I had one little piddly sure thing.
And then I felt really good about potentially getting these stretch ones because I had gotten two of the three buildings I needed. And I saw within my reach the last building that I wanted. So I discarded one of the objectives that was a sure thing that was easy because I was like, no, no, I'm gonna be able to get my huge amount of points here with my more difficult objectives. And then I did not get that building. Someone else purchased, someone else purchased six. And was it me?
It was, no, it was David. I thought it was Dave. I bought the first barn, but then David bought the second one. I was mundering. The york. He bought the cabinet of curiosities, which is what I needed. Got it. Yeah, it was difficult, but I've come to terms with it. Yeah, I don't know how I feel about objectives. I mean, I don't know. It's another way to get some extra points, but I think they're often a crapshoot like Megan described us now. - Right.
Well, especially if you have one of those crazy ones tantalizing you with like, hey, you get 15 or 20 points. If you get this combination of rooms, but then you don't even see one of them or they're too expensive or any number of things other people keep buying them. - Or they're totally off theme for fighting for the Fairchilds, yeah. - Right. And I think that just goes and talks to more of the chaos that's in the game.
And that's a common word to throw around these days, which basically just means there's a fair deal of randomness to the way things are going to emerge. But I still really enjoy playing the game and getting into that, you know, almost tactical feel of, okay, I need to do these next three things for before the next courtship. And then before I know it, we're in the home stretch and the game's almost over. - Yeah, I guess I think of it as like a risk posture. How much do you want to risk?
How much do you want to gamble? Because you can put yourself in a position where you only make safe choices or you can put yourself in a position where you only make the risky choices or somewhere in between. - Yep, absolutely. - I'm fascinated by the amount of forethought required to have a big turn.
Like there's a lot of buildings that require five gentry or four gentlemen or something that seems really difficult because not only do you have to have the cards in hand, but also have to have the servants available. So what are your thoughts on that? - I really like that because I don't think there's anything you can ignore in this game. I don't think you can say, you know what? I don't care about my reputation. I'm not going to do one thing to raise it.
I'm going to focus on, you know, money and buying more tiles and getting-- - Spoken like a true York. - I'm going to get just my casual guests and I'm not going to care. Like it's going to bite you. You're going to have things you need that reputation for. And it's the same thing. You can't be a popper with a heart of gold. That's not going to work either. And you have to be keeping everything in mind.
And yeah, for those, when you're like, "Hey, this activity requires my reputation to be up at six. " And I also need, however many people ready, along with all of their servants, whatever, that's huge. But it's going to pay out huge. So when the stars align and you make it happen, it's very exciting. And it's, I think it's fun to watch. I mean, it's also somewhat disappointing to watch when you're one of the other players. But fun at the same time is you're like, "Oh, I'm getting crushed.
" (laughs) - As long as you know who's going to the party, the gossip allows you to-- - Right, yeah, be a perfectly happy Victorian foyer. - When you pull it off, as Megan said, you feel awesome. And you have this entire parade of staff that you're just rolling out and you're putting all the valets on the gentlemen, ladies' maids with the ladies. And then you get your footmen that are helping with it or the butler that's hosting the event.
And then suddenly, all of your staff is over in the left most expended box. And you're like, "Oh, I've got to do something just to catch up in the next turns that I can set up for that. " So there is a pacing to the game that kind of feels like you're not swinging for the fences on every turn, but you definitely have at least one prep turn while they all move into the center box.
And then you might be able to pull something off on the next turn, assuming you still have the gentry cards and everything to do it again. But I love that puzzle. Then let's move on to the prompts, starting with weight in complexity. On board game geeks, scale of one to five with one being the lowest, five being the heaviest. This category would also align with what board game arena calls complexity. How would you rate? Obsession, Megan, why don't you lead us off?
- I'm a little nervous about leading us off here because I think the two of you may really disagree with me, but I'm going to go ahead and rate this a four. - Four. - For our weight, complexity. I don't think anyone in our group has this solved. I don't think anyone has said there's an auto win strategy here.
I think there is an enjoyable depth here, which is, it's why it's wild to me that the designer would say, well, this is more themed than game because I think we are still really wrestling with the game that is here. - Right, that's awesome. I struggled with how to answer this for quite a while because when I first started playing this, it was not easy. And that's because it's very different than every other game I've played. And I mean, we've been playing games for decades.
So a lot of the time when I start to play a new game, I can figure it out on my first play. I could not do that with this, but now that I've played it so much with my wife, I ended up with a rating of two for weight and complexity because I feel like we both understand exactly how to play. There's not a lot of things to remember. We don't have to look up anything. It just, it all fits together and makes sense. - Wow, okay. Well, I am not at the two stage.
In fact, I had this originally as a three when I first sat down and was playing it. I was like, okay, this is a three. But then I kept discovering those things I talked about, right? Those depths that you can find if you read into it and looking at how you're gonna manufacture money and then staging the sequence of events so that you have the right servants available and how you're gonna manage the gentry cards. And Megan, I agree with you.
It feels like when you are understanding the game and you're playing all of the different things at the same time, it's a four. And it's an awesome four. I'm really enjoying it. So Paul, I guess I can look forward to dropping it down in the future with more familiarity, but I'm not there yet. (laughs) So then strategy. How much opportunity is there for strategy and long-term planning on the same scale of one to five, please? Paul, what do you think?
- Yeah, so for the reasons you and Megan already stated, I rate this a four. There is quite a lot of long-term planning and strategy in this game, even though there's also a lot of randomness. - I agree with Paul on this one. I also rated this a four for strategy. I think for exactly the reasons we discussed, you can't waste a turn. And so you need to be thinking about not only what benefits you now, but how are you setting yourself up for those next turns?
You know, you could use that servant now, but if it's not gonna be a big help, maybe they can be a big help for you next turn. So when will they be available again if you use them now? And, you know, if you flip this activity now, hey, great, you're getting money or reputation, whatever you're getting from that, but is that helping you with the fair child? So there's so much to weigh and to consider.
And even we'll get into some of this later, but thinking about which family you want to start with, that I think right from the beginning of the game, there is strategy to consider. Well, let's get into it now. What are your thoughts on family selection? - I'm not super clear on what the official rules are regarding that. The way we've played most of the time in the past, it's just kind of been a, here's all the family boards, pick what you want, and people have just kind of picked.
But the last time we played, we actually figured out who player won, we selected player one from the start. And then I think we followed the rules on this. - Yeah, the rules say player two gets the first pick, and then player one gets the last pick for family selection. - Mm-hmm, and I think that honestly is a more appropriate way of doing it, because I think the family you start with does matter, and it impacts your play. And so I think having that be determined by your turn order makes sense.
- Okay, yeah, I definitely liked drafting the families in some non-random order, or just whatever you felt like. And you do have some early advantages, whether it's more money, or if it's an extra footman or whatever the case may be. So I can see what that affects shapes your early decisions. I had strategy down as a three, because I feel like those are a lot of tactical decisions.
Like what I'm gonna do before that first courtship, I may try to take advantage of whatever my family has, but by the end of the first courtship, it feels like playing field has evened out quite a bit. The other thing that just, it prevents me from giving it a four, is the theme or the season of the Fairchilds and what they're going to expect. And like Paul mentioned, it came out in the last game where they wanted sporting events again, and I was already sitting on the most points at the table.
And that was gonna be counted twice, because it had emerged twice. That was nothing to do with planning, or foresight, or anything, that was just luck. So for me, that saps some of the strengths from strategy, it's not sapping it in a bad way. I'm not wishing that-- - Oh, I wish that would last a lot. - I guess to maybe try and convince you, I think you have to plan almost half the game ahead to put on those big events, because you have to stage out, when am I gonna hire extra staff?
How am I gonna get more cards? How am I gonna get my reputation up? And that takes, like if you wanna have a ball in the final two turds, you have to spend the whole game working up to that. - Right. I have to say about it. (laughing) - All right, well then luck. How much do you think luck plays a factor? Same scale one to five. The two numbers don't have to add up to six. (laughing) - All right, I'll go first.
I think there's a lot of luck to this game, but I also have to admit that I win this game a lot, which to me means there's not a lot of luck to it. So I ended up right in the middle, rating it a three. - Well, I'll join you there. I also had it down as a three. Megan, what'd you have? - I won't be joining you. I had it as a one.
- Wow. - Because I think, I think those things that you've each mentioned previously that there's luck in the tile draw or luck in the cards, but there's also things in the game mechanics that allow you to mitigate that. There's opportunities to wipe that builder's market or impact those things, get yourself more money.
And so because there are those little, I don't know what you would call them, but there are all those mitigating mechanics that allow you to kind of temper how much impact that luck has on you. So I'm saying a one. - Wow, all right. You convinced me, Megan, I'm changing my score to two. (laughing) - Great. - I'm sticking to three, but I am glad that you find it so deterministic. So then theme, for me, this one's going to be a foregone conclusion, but I will throw it out there.
What do you have down for theme, same scale, one to five? - I give this a six out of five. (laughing) - I have rated other games on this podcast, a five out of five. This has more theme than those games. So I have to break the scale. - You have to break the scale. Okay. - Wow, I give this a four. I could potentially see these mechanics with a different theme. I'm not super attached to the theme. However, I- - Scandalous. - I see how our group refuses to play this without me.
And that's very kind because you guys know that I enjoy this theme and that there are other themes that don't resonate with me the way this one does. So I love the opportunities to play with this game and what the theme brings to it. You know, how we laugh about someone being a cat or a popper or an American heiress. And I think those things all add to our enjoyment of the game. But do I think it is a perfect meld of mechanic and beam? It's just not quite a perfection for me. - I see.
Well, we'll have to talk about that one later behind your back. - Because I went with it. (laughing) It's a five, right? The theme is one sets this game apart. I really like the idea of hosting these activities, but only if I have the right staff for the event. And then if I only have enough reputation to draw the right crowds, I mean, I just, I think it's done a really good job of integrating the theme with the mechanics that are there.
And much I would go to six, but it's definitely a solid five. - I just, I feel like I'm watching one of those shows or movies or reading one of those books every time I play. - Exactly. And apparently there are many more books that I have to read. (laughing) All right. What's your favorite player account? What's obsession best played at? Paul? - For me, it is two players. And we can talk about it later. There's a lot of variance in the game that make the two player version extremely good.
- We don't have a separate variance section. - Oh, I guess it was in house rules, but yeah. So variance, there's lots of variance listed in the rule book. And they're actually given fun names like the Jane Austen variant, the Charles Dickens variant, the polite society variant. - Right. - So you can do things like draft, starting guests. You can start the game with the blue service tiles on the builders market. You can start the game with extra servants so you don't have to fight over them.
And my wife and I love to play with the Jane Austen variant where the theme card is unknown until the actual courtship. So it is always a surprise. - Oh, yikes. - And so we have to constantly track our scores of all five colors to know who's gonna win what theme. - If it comes up a certain way. - Leave it up to chance, right? - All right, so tell me about the Charles Dickens variant. - It's similar to Jane Austen, but you roll a die.
And based on the die roll, you reveal the theme card either at the beginning of the season, at the end of the season, or one of the turns in between. - Oh my, okay. - So it builds up the drama. - Right, it's not as hard of course Jane Austen, but okay, Megan, how about you, player count? - I'd say for me four, I haven't played this to player. Oh, you know what? Maybe I have on BGA, but I enjoy a four player. I like that those base game families all are getting out there.
I think there's a nice amount of tension and competition with four. And yeah, it's been my preferred count. - Yeah, I would agree with you as well on that one. I think now two is the only one that I haven't played it at. I mean, out of one to five. And part of it is playing with you all, right?
So when four of us are sitting down and playing this game, and we've played it at five, that has been a wonderful experience, but as we will get to in the next question, I prefer four over higher player accounts, which means the next question, the least favorite player account for me, it's pretty much anything beyond four. Five had too much downtime as it was, so I guess six would be right out. - Well, six is a team game, where it's three on three.
And you have to have the upstairs downstairs expansion to do that, but then five. - Yeah, I agree. Five would be my least favorite as well. Although, you know, I only played the solo game to learn it. I don't really ever play it anymore.
So I guess I could pick solo as well, but it's because of the downtime, especially as Dave so rightly pointed out, the downtime during courtship rounds, if you are the first person before the courtship, you will pass the start player marker to your left and be the last person after the courtship. So in a five player game, there'll be eight people take a turn before you take another one. - Right? And didn't he say that his downtime was around 40 minutes?
(both laugh) I think he was exaggerating, but yeah, it was a lot. - I don't know if he was, but okay. - Yeah, this is the one time this podcast we're all gonna agree because I also said I have player. And for the same reasons, it's just too much downtime. - Right. Okay, so while we're talking about time, time, time, what's the actual playing time? Because boxes can lie. This one says it takes 30 to 90 minutes. - I can't imagine getting it down that low.
My experience has been about 30 minutes per player for the standard game and 45 minutes per player for the extended game. - Even with two players? - Yes. - So then at four players, standard game, you're already looking at 120 minutes. - Right? - Which is what my BG stat says. - Yep, I would agree with that. So the meaningless playing time on the box is for hyper fans who are very efficient. Expansions, there have been more expansions to this game than I realized.
And I think we may have even been playing with more expansions than I realized until I was getting ready for this pod. Paul, why don't you get us headed off and talking about expansions? - Yeah, so we've been playing with the Wessex expansion. - Right. - Minus the additional guests. - Okay. - I also included the card corrections from the useful box.
And the reason for that, and I guess that's more of a house rule, is I'm worried about bloating the deck of guests and making it more variable or more chaotic. And so I chose not to add any additional guests to the decks that we play with. - Interesting, we've talked about that before with other games, so that makes a lot of sense. - Yeah, there's also the upstairs downstairs expansion that we played with.
And again, I did not add any of the cards because honestly, I was punching the game as you were setting up, so that was the reason for that. But it was a lot of fun playing with those supplemental servants. I think they make the game take longer because they add more decisions.
But with those supplemental servants, I would more than happily play with the additional guests because the guests, as well as the servants, add several ways to churn through the deck faster and to discard cards you don't want as well. - Right, that head house made was just paying dividends for you. - Yes, I never put a negative point guest in my hand. - Right, I think not just that, you may also have gotten a better yield of points from your guests.
- Right, and then I pre-ordered the character's expansion, so we'll have to try that in the future. - Absolutely. One of the things that I noticed about, I guess it's upstairs downstairs was we got a new pass card, right? And on it, when you passed, you now had the ability to hire staff. Is that a new feature? - Yes, that is for upstairs downstairs only because otherwise very few people would wanna take the extra turns to increase their staff.
The game adds four unique supplemental staff members for every player and it's really a lot of fun to use them. So I'm happy the designer put it away to make it much easier to expand your staff.
- Well, and as we were talking about at the start of the pod that this game feels like every turn is essential and taking a turn to hire staff with a butler who's then gonna go tromping off to the left and take two turns to return, like it was a major decision to hire staff and not something that you would do very often. - It could be painful, yes. - I really enjoyed having that opportunity be more readily available with the upstairs downstairs expansion. - Heck yeah.
- I think that I originally looked at the additional servants that were being added as part of upstairs downstairs and didn't see the potential in them in the way that it actually played out. And so I was somewhat attempting to disregard them and just play the game as I would without them. And my score showed how faulty that thinking was. - Yeah, I think they added about 50 points to our scores, at least for Todd. - Yeah. - Once you're in the game, you have to be making the best use of them.
I got all four because I had an objective card that gave me points for having all four, but I was not making efficient use of them during my turns the way I needed to be. So I'm hoping to play upstairs downstairs again sometime to see if I can improve on that. - Yeah, I agree with that. It was fun playing with upstairs downstairs specifically. I didn't realize Wessex was an expansion until I was doing the research for it.
- Okay, you know, one thing I want to point out about the Wessex expansion is it comes with an Uber starting guest, Ms. Agnes Dansby. She gives you two lions of reputation for no servants required. - Wow. - Yeah, so it felt a little swingy to me. And that's one of the reasons we haven't been playing with it. But next time we play with upstairs downstairs, I'm just gonna include all the cards. - Okay, I'm looking forward to that.
And then of course, the four new staff types, there was the head house made, the hall boy, the cook. And it was funny, every time you did an event, you're like, oh, I'm gonna send my cookout on this. And you know, Tate, what was it, extra money? - He would either give you a reputation lion or he would lower the reputation needed to invite guests. - Okay, and then of course, there's that useful man who's tall and handsome in a dusty black coat with a red right hand.
(laughing) See that the servants are already telling their own stories, right? (laughing) Okay, most recognizable comparison. What's the highest ranking game that reminds you the most of obsession? Megan, I'm gonna give you first dibs at this one. - Okay, well, that's fine. What I'm gonna say in neither one, there's no chance that either one of you is gonna say the same thing. - There's 100% chance.
- And this is just a truly wild comparison, but I think it makes all the sense of the world and it's just what my brain just connected with. - Right. - I'm gonna go ahead and say love letter. - Yes. - Which mechanics wise, not there at all. - Pretty much the same. - But theme, theme, it's right there. I'm like, they could do a little version of love letter where you're trying to get the fair child. And you'd be like, oh yeah, I get it, it fits right in, so. - That needs to happen.
- Right, Paul, I'm worried about you, what did you have? - So, doing my research, I recall the game I used to love and haven't been able to play, and that game is Colosseum. - Oh, yes. - It came out in 2007. Basically, you collect tiles that represent people or animals or objects, and then you also have these events that you're trying to put on, and you can only put them on a show for the Colosseum if you have all the required people and objects and animals.
- Yes. - And you're gaining reputation, you're gaining favor with the emperor, and you're trying to woo senators to be your backup and vouch for you, so it has so many similar elements. I had almost forgotten about it, and now I realize, wow, it's so similar. - We should play that. - I agree. - And I have the original Days of Wonder version of that game. - Yeah, that's the one I played over and over again.
- Right, and one of the other things that happens, similar to wooing the favor of the Fairchilds, is you're trying to put on the show when the emperor's coming around the track and will be at your stadium when you're putting on the show. - Yes. - That is a very good recommendation, Paul. Not that yours wasn't making. I thought of it too, and I laughed. I thought about, yeah, we're gonna take a four heavy game and we're gonna compare it to, but you're absolutely right. It feels very similar.
We were trying to woo for somebody's favor. I had two games, and they were both out there as far as ranking, so I picked the higher of the two. But for me, it's Last Will. - That was my backup. - Was it? - I was afraid that it was gonna be your less recognizable comparison. It's a little too high for less recognizable, but if you're trying to stay within this kind of theme, there aren't a lot of candidates. And it's like obsession and reverse.
Instead of trying to get up to all of their prestige and everything, you start out with it, and then you're trying to give it all away. - It's so true. (laughing) - So you're putting out the fancy events and you have your errand boys that you're sending out, kind of like your staff, and you're trying to spend the money down to zero, so. - Yeah, every time I play Last Will, I think of the movie Brewster's Millions. - Yes, exactly. So then, Last Recognizable Comparison.
What did you have for something that isn't as high on the ranking charts? - I'll let Megan go first. - Okay, normally when we were talking about games on this podcast, it's coming, we're even mentioning a game. It comes with some sort of recommendation to it. - I cannot be more clear about the fact that that is not what this is. I am recommending you to stay so far away from the game I'm about to share.
But the game I'm going to say that it made me think of that's less recognizable and for a very good reason is called Ladies and Gentlemen. - Oh. - And. - I've heard of that one. - I went to a game date that I swear was put on by Days of Wonder. But I looked on BGG and it said this is from Asmadi. So I'm like, maybe I'm misremembering that the game day I went to was Days of Wonder themed. But anyway, went to a game date. This came out in 2013.
The game actually has a very interesting mechanic to it that it's, you play as part of teams. When I played, I think there were six of us. So it was three two player teams. And one person on the team is playing the Lady. The other is playing the gentleman. And the way the game works, it's asymmetric. The gentleman is trying to earn a bunch of money. So he's doing a bunch of things in the game to make lots of money.
And the Lady is trying to spend all of the money on jewels and clothes and things. So that the end is. - There's not much, it's horrific. It's horrific. And then at the end, it's who has the most reputation and throws the best party, whatever. So it's one of those things that there's a very clever mechanic to it. If someone out there has done like a re-theme or something, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has because the way the theme is implemented here is just so shockingly offensive.
But the mechanic is actually very interesting. And I would be curious to see this kind of mechanic in this sort of team asymmetric play in other games because it's not something I've seen much of. And I still remember this after playing the game once over a decade ago. It's something that really settled in my mind and not just because I was so offended. So there's something there in the mechanic.
That's why it came to mind and why I'm even bringing it up at all, but the theme is atrocious, don't play it. (laughing) - Okay, I won't try to hunt that one down. Paul, what did you have for less recognizable comparison? - You know, games I've never played but reading up on them and learning about them, they seem like good recommendations for people who like obsession. And so my recommendation is Legacy, the Testament of Duke de Cersei.
- Okay. - It is a card game where you play as a French aristocrat pre-revolution and you have a sense that revolution's coming. And so you're trying to prepare your family to survive the next three generations. And you have family, friends, prestigious things and you're building out a family tree and trying to arrange marriages and collect honor and basically survive the revolution. - Okay, I've seen it, but I've never played it. Interesting.
I went into the way back machine for this one, all the way back to 1990. Adele Verklichette or Hoidy Toidy, for no other reason than the theme. So the idea of boarding the snowballs, collecting things and then showing them off seemed to fit right in. And when we think of this theme, I always think of that game. So it was the inaugural winner of the Deutre Spiele praise in 1990. It also won the Spiele de Jarris that same year.
It's really more of a prisoner's dilemma game where you're trying to take stuff versus someone's gonna try to steal stuff and someone else is gonna try to stop the thieves. Okay, house rules. So beyond variance, do you have any ideas about how you might improve this game? - Well, I did already talk about how I have not bloated the guest deck with the extra cards that came with the expansions. - Yeah. I remember we talked about that.
I think it was in Wingspan where it would be great if someone went through and was like our card, Somalia, and like came out with a pared down version that allowed you to experience the expansions without diluting the deck too much. And you basically have done that for us. (laughing) I mean, the designer did it. I just decided not to add any extras, but yeah. (laughing) But I will throw them in when we play upstairs, downstairs again. - Yep. - Make any thoughts there?
- I mean, I think you are going to enjoy this game the most. And I know for sure I enjoy this game the most when you get into the theme. And so I think when you aren't letting the game just be mechanics, but you are sharing, oh, I'm bringing the CAD and the popper to this event and oh no, I just got them. And you know, we all laugh now and I get an American heiress because we know what I'm going to do with there. I'm going to use her in loser, right? (laughing) So that is fun.
And so I think if I was going to house rule anything, it's that you have to share. Who are those guests that you've invited to your home? Who are the guests that you've paired together for this activity? And now you're imagining a table of wist being played by, you know, this unlikely duo or whatever, or a four-sum and that's funny. So I think that adds to the fun of it. - I agree. - Perfect.
The one thing that I would suggest and this would be interesting to find the right balance, but my RNG luck has been great in the last couple of games with the Fairchild's doubling up on a theme in which I was leading and I'm not complaining, but it would be interesting if there was a way to mitigate the luck for those reveals. So this would be the opposite of Jane Austen, but a variant where you turn one card over and then you'd publicly discard one.
So if there are five types of activity and each one has two cards in the theme deck, that means that you're going to see four out of 10 possibilities, which means on the last one, you have a one in seven chance of knowing what's gonna be there. And if you at each courtship, you revealed the next card and threw one away publicly, you'd have a one in four chance of guessing the right remaining one on the last turn. I think that might be a little more interesting. - Okay, let's do it.
- Yeah, and I'm thinking about there was a game back in the early 2000s called La Chita or La Sita, and you were building up these cities, but part of the game was favor of the people.
And if you had more buildings of a certain type than your neighboring cities and the people would migrate towards your cities, which then might cause you infrastructure problems, but the favor of the people was being revealed throughout the course of the game before the next migration happened, and that was a really cool mechanism that I remembered enjoying from that game. So if this game is being played a game night, then what do you want to play afterwards?
- Go ahead, Todd. - Well, it's dinosaur tea party, of course. With all of the commensurate role-playing that should go along with it. - It's the same theme, just rewind 100 million years. (both laughing) - For me, it's Village Green. - Okay. - I adore that game. It's quick, and I feel like it's something that these families could be doing in between their activities and gaining, well, I mean, Village Green is about gaining reputation by having the best Village Green. - Yes, I like it.
- So instead of improving themselves, they're improving Derby Shire. - There you go. And Megan? - I said Wist. (both laughing) - That's a great choice. - To be playing some Wist, some old card games. So you have, you know, it's easy enough to gossip, and I think that fits right in. - I like that one a lot. It's very, what's the opposite of meta? (both laughing) All right, so what feature of the game still stands out to you? And obviously it was just released in 2018, so it's relatively new.
What do you like the most about? - Obsession. Megan? - Hmm, I think that the theme is one that really appeals to me. It delights me, and that raises my enjoyment of the rest of the mechanics of the game. And it's been fun having our group enjoy the game. Sometimes you like a game, but the rest of the group isn't really clicking with it. (both laughing) - Good Imperium? - Yeah. - Oh, and so it's nice.
I mean, it's probably, this isn't a game, I think that our whole group unreservedly loves, but it does seem for the moment that it is a game that our group likes, and there's something fun about that too. - Just to be clear, I'm on the Love Doom Imperium side. (both laughing) - Yeah, I totally agree, Megan. It's been a delight. - And I will go ahead and agree also. So we're in all agreement again. The theme is what really sets this game apart.
- Oh, I was just agreeing with what Megan said, but my answer for what stands out is the interconnectedness. Like the designer goes out of his way to say that he's addressed theme at the cost of gameplay. I don't think that's true at all. The gameplay just shines for me. The way that your hand of guests have to be managed to interact with your servants, which have to be managed to interact with the buildings you buy is such a delight. And for people who like to solve puzzles, it's all there.
- Good answer, and I totally agree. All right, so what feature of the game now disappoints? What maybe isn't as well done in obsession? - Well, for me, it's the guest deck and the variance in the guest deck. There's not a consistent trade-off between what they require as far as reputation and servants and what they give you for favors. And that totally fits with the theme. It's just annoying when you go to draw a bunch of guests and you get a couple of American heiresses in a cab.
But given that, I think that upstairs, downstairs really addressed that issue and medicates it wonderfully. - I would agree with that. I had the other side of the random coin. I had the way in which the tiles were coming out, right? Sometimes a tile that's perfect for you comes out and someone else snaps it up and then you never even had a shot at it. And like you said, it's not game-breaking by any stretch, it's annoying. But then we even recognize that upstairs, downstairs, fix that one.
If you had the useful man, right, you could discard him and then just go bag diving and pick out the one that you wanted and put it in the 800 spot and have a chance at buying it yourself. - Yep, you can order him to build whatever building you want as long as it's not a monument. - You can go have him evict whoever you want out of the property you'd like, yes. (laughing) - To keep lighter strikes again. - Yes, so did this game replace a previous one for you? - No, it made its own room for me.
- Right, I agree. I mean, we didn't stop playing anything else to start playing obsession instead of. The one thing that I will say is like in my headspace, one of the other games that reminded me of it, even though they're wildly different, was Trajan because in that you're trying to clear the tiles off of your little Munkala track and planning ahead for how you're going to get that tile feel similar, but I can't think of a situation now where I would want to play Trajan over obsession.
- Nice. - So has this game since been replaced? And if so, by what? I'm gonna go ahead and say no. - Yeah, possibly by its expansions. - Right. (laughing) - Its evolution is replacing itself, but it's still obsession everyday. Okay, then soundtrack. What music would you want to listen to while playing? - I have the Biden prejudice 2005 movie soundtrack.
Yeah, that soundtrack is something that has gained popularity than with people who aren't fans of that movie, but it's very memorable, super fun, maybe not. I actually, part of me is like, you know what I should have gone for now that I'm thinking about this? There's a really wonderful adaptation of Mansfield Park that came out maybe around the same time that involves characters who are a bit more manipulative and the music reflects that a little bit.
So that might even be better, but just because of ease of accessing it, I'll still stick with that Pride and Prejudice soundtrack. - All right, I actually did some searching and I found an album which is classified as a soundtrack, but it's basically a performance by the Regency Players and they titled it A Suitable Wife Classic Romance Themes from Period Drama and so they recreate a bunch of favorite musical scores from various TV shows and movies of that theme.
- Okay, I like it and I'm gonna follow in those footsteps as far as TV shows and movies. I mean, there are so many well-known themes that we've heard, whether we're talking about Downton Abbey or whatever. I'm going to settle on Bridgerton 'cause they had some great music in there and specifically they did some baroque versions of modern music, so I always think it's kind of fun to hear it's song in the background and you realize, oh wait, I know that one.
That's a song by Nirvana, but here it is showing up in Victorian England, which is a nice clash of culture there. All right, rating on board game geek scale of one to 10 now. No decimals, please. How would you rate obsession? And Paul, we'll give you first tips. - I currently rate it an eight, very good. That is a very good rating from you, Megan. - I bet it's a nine. I really enjoy this game, really enjoy the theme.
I have to reward anyone for not doing a space theme, a colonial theme, a train theme. (laughing) So, yeah, I love it. - I also had it down as a nine. I've really enjoyed the game, my plays of it and the theme, so absolutely well worth the nine. Last question, is it replayable and how soon would you want to revisit it? Absolutely replayable. I mean, I could play this game again next week. I'm enjoying going through and learning about it and exploring the expansions. What do you two think?
- I'll say I also think this is for sure replayable and I think once a month seems like a good cadence for this. - I also said absolutely like Utah. Basically, anytime I wanna return to the ideal country side of Victoria in England, I pull this out. - How often does your wife ask to play it? - About once a month. - Wow, Paul and Megan are not married. (laughing) - Yeah, that wasn't a secret spouse reveal there or anything.
- And so with that, we've had our final ball of the season and the fair childs have granted their favor too. We'll go with Megan. Well done, Megan. - Aw, thanks. (laughing) - For our next episode, we are going to take on another classic something about royalty, I think. I still need someone else to sign up to be the third seed in that one. Thank you both for being available today. This was really enjoyable. Make sure you pick up the party favors on your way out the door. - Thanks, dad.
- 'Til next time. - Thank you for listening to replayable. Support for our podcast comes from listeners like you. You can find us online at replayable. fm, on Twitter as replayable. fm, and on Instagram as replayable.fm. You can also join our team at patreon.com/replayable. Thank you for your support. We welcome your feedback, which is the only way that we are going to get better. You can get in touch with us via email at feedback@replayable.fm.
And if you're interested in sponsoring us, then please contact us at sponsors@replayable.fm. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You