Welcome to Replayable, where we go into depth on our favorite tabletop games that keep us coming back again and again. I'm the start player Todd, and today I'm joined by Megan and Paul. For our seventh episode, we explore the wondrous world of mind management, the Psychic Espionage Game. It was designed by Jay Cormier and Senfung Lim with art by Matt Kint. It was published by Off The Page Games in 2021. Are you two ready to undertake this mission?
I'm sending you a psychic message saying how ready I am. Wow, that's pretty ready. How about you, Paul? I'm saying nothing. Well, mind management is a hidden movement, one versus many deduction game. One player is the recruiter scouring the city for new recruits. They move around on a secret map, trying to visit locations that match one of their three randomly drawn feature cards. All of the other players control rogue agents who are trying to stop the recruiter.
They ask questions and investigate the city, making mental notes on dry erase tokens. The recruiter wins by collecting 12 recruits or surviving for 16 turns. The rogue agents can only win by capturing the recruiter. Hidden movement games used to be the providence of war games, like back in the 70s. And then in 1979, Stop Thief came out and it had a purpose built electronic device or a Neo computer that moved the thief around the map for you to find.
And since then, this genre has increased in popularity. What do you like about hidden movement games, Megan? Ooh, they're a little brain burning for me. I will say that keeping track of where people are spatially is not my strong suit. So this game and these kinds of games really keep my brain occupied, which is not something I want all the time, every time, but it's fun for a change of pace. Yeah, I agree with that. Paul, what do you think? What do you like about hidden movement games?
Well, for me, I really enjoy how they are adversarial without actual direct conflict. So that alone makes them already mysterious by nature, like those intelligence spy movies, The Saint or Dirty Ron Scoundrels. You know, the mechanics are important, but in games like these, they can take a backseat to the player interaction. Okay. And that's a pretty good thing, right?
The player interaction is key, although the recruiter in this case or like Schallengard, which won the Speel to Yars in 1983, there is one person who is trying to do things secretly and so they don't have the same kind of interaction. They have to try to put on their poker face and not give away any additional information that's out of band. But I do like the interaction between the players in these as well. I think of the one versus many as an interaction as well.
It's just not direct interaction. It's a cat and mouse game and that's one of the things I love about these. Now MGMT has a lot more mechanics than some of the older ones and so there's more game to play as opposed to just playing the cat and mouse game with each other. It makes things interesting. I'm sure we'll get into that more. Yeah, we will. So you mentioned one versus many. Which do you prefer, one versus one or one versus many?
Well, I prefer that I have a collaborator when I'm trying to deal with hidden information because all too often I'll just miss something completely obvious that if I have a partner, it's far more likely we'll see it. Right. Megan, how about you? Do you prefer one versus one, something like Mr. Jack or do you like the one versus many format of mind management? MGMT, I'm not sure which way to go with this one.
So I will say that the one versus many mode is a little intimidating and at the same time, I think in the right group where it's okay, there can be comfort even in failure, then that one versus many is okay. In our group, I feel comfortable with it because I feel like there's not a situation where someone takes over for the many and is just, I'm the decider, I'm making all the decisions and the other two are kind of just spectators.
And I think there's also safety for the person who is the recruiter. There's this understanding of, yeah, there's several other people playing against you. So there's no shame in getting found out. That's part of the game and it's not like, oh, you're such a dumb dumb just because we beat you, which I think sometimes there can be a loneliness in being the one loser against multiple winners. That happened to me the first time I played. Yeah, I think this game handles it well.
But I think it's fun when you're the one, I mean, these aren't necessarily comparable things, but I think of like a game like code names when you give the clue and then you're hearing the team think through what that could be. It's fun to hear how people are thinking through things when you know the truth. It's hard not to make any facial responses when that's happening. Like you want to raise an eyebrow when they're going way off course, but you can't do it.
No, I say that happened to me in my first game because I didn't really know what I was doing as a recruiter. And I basically walked into a corner and after I did that, I was quickly discovered by, I think it was Todd and Dave. Right. They said, oh, he was in the corner. That means he has to be here right now. And then they captured me.
So for those of you starting out this game, recruiters avoid the corners or at least have planned your escape in advance because one of the challenges you had was you couldn't backtrack over any space you had previously visited. And so it meant your path out was very constrained. Exactly. And it was easy to pinpoint where I was. Right. So Hunter versus hunted, which which do you prefer playing, Megan?
I will admit that I've never played the recruiter in mind management, so I wouldn't be able to say there. And I'll say probably I enjoy hunting versus being the hunted. It feels a bit safer, I guess. But I would like the experience of playing as a recruiter in my management. I just haven't had it yet. All right, Paul, do you have a preference? You know, I honestly don't. It really depends on how I feel that day about yourself. Yeah, I kind of agree with that.
There are some times where it's like, I want to play this game, but I feel this weight on my shoulders like, oh, they're going to pick me to be the recruiter. And I've got to be that much more on top of my game in order to elude all of the player powers. We're going to talk about those in a bit. And when do I use my time slips to try to get out of a tight jam or to really cause introduced chaos into the pathing that I've been doing.
And sometimes I just like showing up and being part of the group and trying to solve the puzzle. But I think it's important that you be willing to do both. And we'll also mention that. All right, so yeah, there are variable powers. So one of the things, and Paul, you had mentioned it, there is a lot more to this than just the cat and mouse game.
So depending on which character you're playing, you're going to have a unique power that you can use in addition to the standard actions, which are asking or revealing. So you ask about a location, if the recruiter has been to those, they put down a footprint and then you can go visit the footprint and you can reveal and find out which turn they were there.
And all the while you're making notes on these disks that allow you to write and dry erase markers and set them on the map and track what knowledge you've ascertained about the path. So you have these extra powers. Do you think they are well balanced? Do you think they're overpowered? Paul, what are your thoughts on the idea of adding individual player powers? Unique player powers to a game of cat and mouse? I think it's interesting.
And I mean, we'll get into the shift system later, but every group is going to find their own balance. The agent powers are really interesting. But honestly, I think most of the time they're a distraction. The game is really about the ask action and finding as many footprints as you can as quickly as possible. Because you don't even need to do a reveal action if you found like four or five footprints, you can just pinpoint where his possible location is.
Because like you said before, there's no backtracking. I think one of the things that makes my MGMT stand out from the other games is that the recruiter, the one has backup, right? He has the immortals. And I didn't realize this the first time I played, but it can be very strategic placing your immortals in places that prevent agents from asking the questions you don't want them to ask. I really like that part about the game. Oh, absolutely.
And it's also like really infuriating when as an agent, the recruiter does that to you. Yes. But of course, because of that, the agents have to have a power like being able to move an immortal off of a place so that another agent can ask the question you want to ask. Yeah, it all feels very well balanced. And the board itself isn't that big. So it's not like Letters from Whitechapel, which that map of London was really large.
And you're hoping to stumble upon Jack the Ripper's track back to his lair after each event so that way you could set up interceptions for subsequent events. But this one, it's congested or it's really constrained. And I like that. You know, it feels that way. I agree. But it also doesn't because of the temples. Okay. Talk a little bit more about that.
So the temple allows the recruiter to instead of moving orthogonally and never being able to backtrack and just making a snake path, the temple says you can enter it and exit it diagonally if you wish. So that really allows the recruiter to make these special paths that almost I mean, one way to think about it is he does cross his own path possibly because of the diagonal movement. Right. And that could be super confusing for the agents. It is.
And the fact that the recruiter only has to survive for 16 turns max. I mean, assuming they don't get 12 recruits before then. Yeah, so the recruiter has two basic strategic options, right? He can try and end the game early by making a whole bunch of recruitments. One way to do that is revealing additional steps to get an extra recruitment through your immortals. And the other strategy is just to hide as long as possible and escape when the time runs out.
Megan, how do you feel about the pacing of the game? So is 16 rounds right? So the way it works, two agents will move, the recruiter moves, two agents, the other two agents will move, and then recruiter has to do like a status check. This is how many recruits I've picked up. Is the game too long, too short? What do you feel about that? I felt good about the pace of the game.
And just to go back to what you were just discussing with Paul, when you're thinking about the rogue agent powers, I think those really contribute to the fact that it's not easy for one of the rogue agents to step forward and essentially captain the team. I think those special powers that are split among the agents are what kind of make everyone feel like I'm contributing my own individual thing here to this team.
And I know for myself, I'm more likely to remember my power and speak up and say, oh, hey, we have alternatives here. We have options that maybe not everyone else is thinking of because they're not seeing that power listed on the card in front of them. So I think that is a really neat game mechanic that helps people get into play styles that are more fun than just someone runs the show. The more experienced player just tells everyone else what to do.
Then getting back to the pacing, then it is like what Paul said, a matter of balancing those powers with those basic powers that everyone has of asking and revealing. And I think when I've played, it's felt right. I think especially a one versus many game could feel like it's going on too long, especially for the one because that's hard to go against everyone for so long.
Now I don't know, since I haven't played as the recruiter, maybe someone with more experience with that would say, no, it does feel too long. Yeah, I'm curious what you both think. I've never felt like the game lasted too long as the recruiter. I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. There is joy to be found in being a voyeur in this game because you know the truth and it's fun and exciting and anxiety inducing to watch the agents figure things out.
I will say though that as an agent, especially when we had our five player game, I did feel like the game dragged. Yeah, I agree with that. Just as everyone else gets to take a turn and in like the three player game, each player is going to manage two agents and there you always have something to do. But at five players, it does start to be a little bit long before you have your own agency or art with an agent in order to take that move.
As far as the experience of being the recruiter, there have been times where we played where it was just laughably easy to go along just by virtue of the cards that I had picked up and the features that I needed to get to to gain my recruits. It was fairly easy to go through and pick up 12 and the agents were still scratching their heads because I had used the temples like you had said, Paul, that really helped.
Then I had done something with my time slip and used the second one earlier than you all thought I would have instead of keeping it in my hip pocket as an emergency escape. That's where the shift system comes in, because as one side starts becoming more successful, well, now you can start adding these modules. So let's talk about that. What are your thoughts about the shift system being modularized game balance adjustments? Is this something new? Is it new to the genre?
How do you feel about the shift system? It reminds me of all the legacy system games. It's just that the shift system makes it much easier to undo and or mix and match the different things that you gain while you play. Megan, any thoughts there? I think we've played a few games with those. Yeah, I really like that.
For me, it reminds me, you know, because we have experience playing werewolf and for over a long period of time and though I don't think any of us are playing right now, we're connected with a community that is still playing. And the metagaming and the thinking around what role sets make the most sense and even which roles are in those role sets, which player counts are the most exciting, that shifts over time as people kind of crack open strategies. And so the game has evolved in our community.
And so I think it's great that that shift system came as part of the game, that it wasn't a matter of people running into a wall in their game group and having it be either that the recruiter always wins or the rogue agents always win, but that there are opportunities when things start going one way or the other to help things out, kind of change the meta and keep the group moving forward. I think that's exciting. Yeah, I think it adds a little confidence to the losing side as well. It does.
And it also keeps you engaged with the game because it starts to feel samey. Like you were just to play the base game in and of itself without any of the shifts being added to it. And I remember like one of the agent powers was you could detect if the recruiter was within two spaces of your orthogonal. And early on we thought, oh yeah, this is a great power. I need to use this all the time, but it turned out it gave us too many options.
But as we grew with our experience, we recognized it was really good at reducing end points for the recruiter to be standing on late in the game. Because you could just say, okay, great. Here's my crosshairs. Oh, you're not on two of these and you must be on a third that is an insta win for us. And it would have been really easy to kind of lock into a style of play until we introduced shifts that helped the recruiter out. Let's talk about double and triple bluffing.
So specifically for the recruiter, and I'm trying to avoid saying things that are spoilery for the shifts, but we have the idea of these time slips and it allows a recruiter to move in a special way. And depending on which recruiter you've selected at the beginning of the game, the recruiter gets to choose which one they are. It's your choice. Yeah. You can either do it randomly or you can choose yourself. Right.
So depending on which one you choose, you have this movement that's going to be either orthogonal or diagonal. What are your thoughts about when you should use those? You start out with one and you can pick up a second sort of thing. What are your thoughts about the time slips? Are they even needed? I think they are because without them, since you're just chasing a snake path, you can be found by the agents within the 12 turns almost all the time.
The time slips allow you to evade them within those 12 turns. And especially if as the recruiter, you use the time slip to jump over your own path. I think that's the most important thing to do. But sometimes you don't. Right. I don't have recruiter experience. What I think about when I think about time slips is the strategy in it. Are you hoping that they find your path first before you start moving away from it?
Or do you just want to start off by creating chaos and have them think they're on your path but not really and they haven't found it? Kind of how can you befuddle their decision making and their tracking of you? But again, I don't have experience with it. So I can't give anyone a guaranteed winning strategy. But certainly from the rogue agent perspective, I think the time slips are constantly planting that seed of doubt for you when you do feel certain.
And I think it's important for the game to have that. I think we determined you needed to use one within the first three moves. Like if you went to your fourth move, it became too easy to pick up your path and then determine where you ended up and then calculate your time slip from there. It started making it easy to collapse on you. Whether you did it first, second or third, that became a little harder to discern.
Okay. One of the things that's really interesting about this particular game is that the theme started out as a graphic novel. In fact, the artist for the game, Matt Kint, is the author and artist of the graphic novel. How do you like the artistic style of this game? What does it make you think about? Megan, go ahead. I really like it. In preparation for this show, I've actually read a little omnibus edition that was the first six editions of the graphic novel.
And the feeling, you know, you're following characters who are having their minds messed with. And so the look of the art is this kind of fuzzy watercolor. And it kind of goes along with that dreamlike quality of you're in a situation, but why are you in this situation? And something's kind of tickling the back of your mind.
And so to me, that transfer is really over to the feeling of the gameplay where you are trying to figure something out, but you're not quite certain everything's a little bit fuzzy. So I think it's a really beautiful board and a fun game to look at. All right, Paul. Wow, that was a great answer, Megan. Thanks, Paul. I don't really have anything to add that was perfect. It does remind me of a lot of 80s and 90s American pulp comics.
I do recall seeing similar art styles in many of those independent comics from that time. Yeah, it's psychedelic. It's a trip, but not in the 70s kind of way, more in the 90s kind of way. Well, it's funny that you say that because it does make me think of 60s and 70s psychedelic, especially you've got some 70s style haircuts and mustaches on some of the characters. Very true. And it reminds me of there was a video game that was released in 2000 called The Operative, No One Lives Forever.
And it kind of steered into that same groovy tone, and yet it was espionage related and trying to uncover the evil lair sort of thing. So yeah, I really liked that video game. And I really like the graphic style that Matt Kent brings to this game. Any other items you want to discuss before we move on to prompts? Yeah, I mean, we didn't talk about shakedowns. Let's do it. The basic actions that the rogue agents are allowed to take. So there's ask and reveal, which we've talked about.
There's capture, which is self evident. But then there's another one called shakedown. So what are your thoughts about the shakedown action? It's interesting. It's a little, I didn't know what to think about it at first. I remember the first time as an agent, I successfully shook down an immortal and removed a possible feature from recruitment. I felt like, oh my God, this is it, we're going to win the game. But then the recruiter ended up winning that game.
And so I realized it's not really helpful towards making a capture. What it does do is extend the length of the game, sometimes only slightly. And really, it puts a lot of pressure on the recruiter. I've played as a recruiter when one of my immortals were shaken down and it made me feel horrible. Yeah, you're buying a tempo with that if you get it right. So that's the other thing. Otherwise, it's just you're losing in tempo because you use one of your actions to do it.
Yeah. So that's the other thing of if you get it right, there's another card you can start the game with called the Black Ops Dolphin. And if you use it successfully, it basically makes the recruiter put step counters on every square with the feature you named. But I have never used the Black Ops Dolphin and gotten more than one step counter out of it. So it's no different than an ask. Yeah. We're so excited to use it because it seemed like it would be so beneficial.
But I think if we looked at the board and the distribution of the features, they are distributed fairly across the board. There is not one big clump where you're going to find that early in the game, uncovering three or four steps in a row. So you have to be cognizant of how much time has elapsed before you play that Black Ops Dolphin and then see if that factors in well to what you know already. Maybe it's not very beneficial. I don't know.
Yeah. That that reminds me of another hard lesson learned, which is as a recruiter, sometimes you're like, oh, if I go this path, I can recruit three people in a single turn. This is great. But then the agents see that and they're like, wait a minute. He has to be right here. Exactly. Right. His count went up so high in just two turns. What happened? Well, excellent. Let's move on to the prompts now. First of all, weight and complexity on BGG scale one to five, no decimals.
How heavy of a game would you say Mind MGMT is? So I do think this is a little bit variable. The first time I played, the rest of you had already played before and I knew I was playing as a rogue agent, not as a recruiter. And it felt easy to go in on that role and that the win or loss of the game didn't really feel like it rested with me. And so from that perspective, it feels like, oh, maybe this isn't that weighty.
But then if you think about the experience of playing it from scratch with a group that didn't know it, or if you think about the fact that the game is changing over the time or over time, I think from there, I gave it a three. I don't think it's the heaviest, weightiest game out there, but I think there is a lot to take in. And like I said, for me, keeping track of movement in my mind is not the easiest thing. So yeah, for me, it's a three. Okay. Paul, what do you have? I give it a two.
I think it is very easy to grasp after your first play. I admit that the shift system does slowly increase the weight and complexity, but the players can control that and they're not increasing it until they have a bunch of plays under their belt. So I think it stays fairly easy overall. So I agree with both of you. So I think the base game is a two. But once you do start adding those shifts and the complexity increases, there are more powers to keep track of.
There are more interactions that are going to affect the game. And I think the complexity can creep up to a three. But by then you're signing up for it. It's almost a great way to do a learning game. And then if you want something meatier, you can make it be. One of the things I didn't even talk about was there is a digital app for the game and they offer digital shifts. So you get all of the physical shifts that are included in the box.
But there are also additional ones that you can play with through the app. And the app also allows you to play single player and it'll control the recruiter for you. Or you can play co-op, which is pretty cool. So strategy. Do we think that there is much of an opportunity for strategy in mind management? Paul, what do you think? I rated it two. There's a few gotchas and the recruiter has to decide early on if they want to play a slow or a fast game.
But other than that, I think the game is primarily tactical. Right. So I had this originally as a one again, with that shifts up to a two with the shift system. If you add more to it, I think the base game and I'm not saying one is a bad score here, but I just think the idea of trying to find somebody with the limited actions that you have seems very straightforward.
But then as you start getting more things in the mix, you do have to plan your moves ahead, especially as a recruiter or plan your moves ahead as the agents to figure out when you're going to use your powers and what to do with the information you get from them. So that might make it more strategic up to a two. Megan, what do you have? I have five. Well, OK. To me, I think it's all strategy when I think of the experience of playing this game.
All I'm thinking of is the group of us sitting around thinking through, OK, who should do what? Talking through our plans for the moves. OK, one rogue agent needs to do this power. But who does it make sense to do this power? Because you have your special powers and maybe it makes more sense for a special power to be used and then for you to ask and for you to move here or there. And so to me, it feels like it's all strategy.
And it's kind of shocking to me that the two of you are like, no, it's just Candyland. I'm just moving pieces on the board. Let me help maybe. The strategy is only valid until the recruiter's next move. And then you have to start from scratch again. I mean, not truly from scratch because you have your notes written down on the board. Do you agree with that, Megan? I think certainly things are changing.
And I think that's true for the rogue agents maybe more than it's true for the recruiter because I think the recruiter is maybe playing a longer game or with a longer game view than the rogue agents are. Agreed. I like your points, Megan. I'm starting to revise my score. I could see it bumping up to maybe a three. I'm not sure I would go all the way to five, but I understand the need to sit down and discuss who are going to be the agents that take this? Are they close enough to do it?
Do they need help getting to maybe a pivotal square to gather additional information? So yeah, there is quite a bit to consider there, which let's look at the flip side of that coin. So luck, how much luck is there in the game? And on this one, I am going to say one and stand on it. I don't feel like there's any luck in this game. I mean, you might get lucky and stumble across the path of the recruiter, but there's no external luck forces at play here. What do you think? I would agree with you.
I think a one makes perfect sense here. I think there's an opportunity for a rogue agent to make a suboptimal play and try something right away and just be right and win. You know, like there's that possibility that you could just get struck by lightning and be in trouble. But that's from someone, you know, kind of being a chaos agent. And I don't think that is common or likely. Yeah. I'm going to have to go with the two then to be contrarian.
Because in my experience, there are a lot of coin flips in this game for the agents. Early on, they can stumble upon a step and get really lucky and stumble upon a few more. And late in the game, it gets to the point where they're like, OK, the game is going to end in one or two turns. He's either here or here. Right. This is it. Do or die. Yeah. To me, that's the same as flipping a coin because it's totally hidden. You have no additional information to make your decision.
So luck determines who wins at the end, which I have no problem with. I think it is a great experience and a great story and a great game. OK, you're right. There are a lot of times where at the end it's like, OK, that recruiter can be in one of two spots and we can get an agent to one of them and perform the capture option. Or even worse, you know, we can get an agent to either one. But if it's the same agent, we're only going to cover one. We can't get to both.
And so we just have to choose which one we're going to take. OK, I can see that. Now how about the theme? How much do we think the theme has been integrated versus pasted on same scale, one to five? I got to say five. It is completely covered in theme. It's sewn throughout. It's gilded and it's structured upon the basic comic books.
Everything about it puts you inside the setting and all the little nods and hidden pieces that we've slowly discovered while playing just elevate the experience of playing the game. Yeah, I 100 percent agree. This is a five. This is why I'm on this episode. Because the game is dripping with theme. Right. And as someone who read a few of the books, I feel like it's right on with those. And that even enriched the game that I already really enjoyed the feeling of.
I even think like the box is fun to look at and see the hidden little things. Absolutely. Box, which that is like, who spends time thinking of that? Because it's not like someone's like, oh, I'm buying the game for the outside of the box. But it's just really well done. It feels like every little place they had an opportunity to add special touches they did. And that makes it super fun.
I will say I watched some review videos where it seemed like people were focused more on the secret agent vibe than the like psychic powers vibe. I think the game does a good job of presenting you with both. And those are definitely both there in the source material. So I think the game just does a really good job with its theme. Yeah. And I'm so glad you brought that up about just the details on the box. And there are so many little hidden messages and things on there.
And they give you the little red red lens technology, I think is what they called it in decrypto, where you put it over and you can read past the obfuscation ink and see the secret message underneath. Just so much thought went into packing the theme in there and making you feel like you're a part of this secret world. I love it. And so it's also a five for me. So your favorite player count.
And I'll go first on this one and say that I think the game is best played at three because otherwise you get into at two. It's the recruiter and one person controlling four agents. And OK, that's fine. It's a duel. It works. But if you are looking at three, each person controls two and they have something to do. And five, you know, same thing. Each person is going to have one. But then you get a little more downtime. So I think three really is the sweet spot for this game.
I'm open to counter arguments. Not for me. I said three earlier and I stand by that. Yeah, I don't think I have a counter argument for you. I think three sounds like a good player count here. So then, you know, without putting words in your mouth, I'll let you go first. Again, what is your least favorite player counter? What do you imagine is the least favorite? I think two would be my least favorite. Just honestly, controlling four rogue agents with, you know, having another person.
If you're the recruiter and someone else is controlling four agents, but they're not having conversation with anyone about it. So it's just downtime for you while they're thinking and moving. Well, it's two agents you move, two agents you move. So it's not four at once. Still, I think, you know, if it's going to be multiple, it's more fun if you're hearing the conversation and hearing what they're thinking.
There's some joy in, you know, finding out that they're thinking the wrong thing and that you've misled them. Or there's, you know, then your pulse gets racing because they're on to you. And so you're okay, I got to figure something out. But when there's just silence on the other end, that's not so exciting. Right. Paul, what did you have? Yeah, I agree with Megan when you are playing as the recruiter.
But as an agent, I believe five players is the worst count just because it takes much longer to play the game. Frequently, my experience has been that we agents get bogged down with discussion and trying to reach consensus or we just get railroaded by an alpha player. Okay, I'd like to think that we're pretty good about not doing that in our group, but I understand that it can happen.
I had four and that's because each player, you know, each of the three players playing rogue agents each have their own agent. And then the fourth one is collectively controlled. So that seems like begging to be an alpha player problem where someone's going to say, okay, well, I'm going to go ahead and just take this other one. Or I think this is how this one should be used. And it actually I don't want to say it encourages.
It's definitely not what the designers are intending, but it opens the door for that to happen. But it makes me think about the fact that you can use the app to play cooperatively. So maybe on the even numbers two and four, you just decide we're going to play a co-op game and we're going to use the app as the recruiter because then you're back to a two player game. Each player is going to have two agents or a four player each one. Each person has one and then it balances itself out again.
All right. Actual playing time. So boxes can lie and you know, they're trying to convince you that these games are all super fast and incredibly enjoyable because they are so quick. What are your thoughts about the actual playing time for the game? So I'll go ahead and jump in here and say that we have BG stats available. So at least for our group, our plays have been in the 50 to 60 minute range. So in the box is 45 to 75 minutes. We're smack in the middle of that.
Well, that's the average, right? That is the average. Because I think this game has a wide variance in play time based on how well the agents do. Right. So you're saying that one game where we won in 15 minutes is dry is bringing our average down. So it's probably a little higher than that in actuality. No, I'm saying that's going to happen to every group is some of their games are going to be 20 minutes and others are going to be an hour and a half. Oh, man.
Hour and a half would be a bit long for this, but I agree. Yes. All right. So the most recognizable comparison, what's the highest ranking game that reminds you of mind management? Megan, what do you have for this one? This is hard. I have a lot of answers here that I wrote down in my notes and I'll be honest and say I didn't actually check BGG so I don't know which ones are actually the highest ranking. All right. Well, which one's your favorite?
So I suppose the first thing that came to mind for me is the trail at House on the Hill because there is that kind of trader mechanic and where it does become a one versus many. I will say I think this is a much better implementation of it, but also perhaps harder. Betrayal when you become the trader is part of the mechanic of that game, right? And it's variable.
And there's times where you become the trader so early and you don't have what you need and it's really bad or you become it so late and you already have everything. You know, the other side already has everything they need. And so you feel like what you do doesn't really matter. The ending is a foregone conclusion. In this game, it very much isn't. Then it rests on you to do a good job and play well. So I do think it's better, but it is more of a show of your skills as a player. All right.
Paul, what did you have? That's my first play. I have been thinking of MindMGMT as Letters from Whitechapel. There's so many similarities from the turn counter to a map where each location has entrances and exits to the special ability of the one being able to move further and each agent having certain things they can do extra well. So I can't not think of Letters from Whitechapel when I play this game. Right. Well, it doesn't take as long to play MindMGMT. So true. In half the time. Right.
So I had a game from 2015 called Burgle Bros. and it has a similar graphic novel-esque artistic style. It's a co-op game and players are trying to sneak into a building, break into three safes and then escape to the roof. But during that heist, they have to track the movement of the guards to be able to avoid them. And so it has the same artistic campy feel and trying to get away with something. I love the heist theme. And Burgle Bros. is also playable on board game Arena.
So less recognizable comparison. So Megan, which one of those out of your list would you proffer as another similar game? Sure. So somehow connected. I'm seeing fearsome floors because there is that sense of planning your movement.
And I think for our group, having had experience playing fearsome floors before, we all comment the first time we play Mind Management that when you're placing those, and now I can't remember what the term is for it in Mind Management, but those walls, those blockades on the board. The barriers. Yes, barriers. It feels so similar to placing pieces that you do at the beginning of fearsome floors. So not a super connected game. There's not hidden movement, but you are still working with movement.
So yeah. Right. We're almost on the same wavelength there because I feel like tracking the guards, which are program movement in Burgle Bros. is similar to the movement of Ferranculus and fearsome floors. Mm hmm. What would you have? I also focused on the movement aspect and I picked Sator Arapo Tenet Opera Rotas. Yes. Okay. Primarily because that game is dripping with theme as well. And it's a fun movement puzzle, although Sator, there's no hidden movement.
It's just you trying to race to the tomes faster than the other players while you're moving the staircases. But between the theme and the square grid with the movement, I felt like they're a little similar. And so because this is a podcast and you listeners aren't able to see the video, Megan's been squinting and raising her eyebrows about this weird game Paul just described. And it was actually a game that he and I played together at Board Game GeekCon. Yes. What year was that?
Gosh. Was it 2013? I don't know. It was a while back. It might have been. Yeah. It was on your list of games to seek out and play and I had never heard of it. But it's a little bit like the swinging staircases in Hogwarts Castle. It's from The Name of the Rose. Right. And so you're trying to retrieve these ancient tomes from within the monastery, but the paths you can use to get there are changing. It's just number one, the name went on for so long and was not something I'd ever heard of.
I'm so surprised just because my list, like that no one mentioned Mr. Jack, which I guess is really it's somewhat connected to letters from Whitechapel. But I dropped it at the beginning. Remember? I did. I've got another one too. So you may step on it if you're going to go through your list here. I'll stop then. Let me jump in and just say that I had another 2015 release and that was Spectre Ops. So, is that on your list? No. OK.
So that is another hidden movement game, one versus many, variable powers. The only real difference is it's a sci-fi theme. So there is someone trying to break in and steal information and there is the posse out trying to find them before they complete their task. So superficially, it sounds very similar. The play is semi similar. The recruiter equivalent has a secret map that they're using to track their movement. And yeah, the other players are trying to capture them.
What else did you have on your list there? Decrypto I think certainly has a similar vibe and you already name checked that. I also think something like Mysterium is connected. I think something in the Battlestar Galactica unfathomable sphere or even shadows over camera, anything with that kind of traitor, you know, where you have that one or two versus many, I think could be you could draw a line and compare them.
They can have that same feeling in that I think all of those kinds of games require that if you are playing them as part of a game group that meets regularly, that that group needs to have some emotional health to it to be able to handle that kind of game. I think that that scenario can be tricky. And there's a reason there's certain games we don't play because they have impacted the relationships in the group.
And so we say no, but I'm glad for the psychological safety we have here in our group that we have that we can play those games and not take it personally, just, you know, get it all out at the game table and leave it there. Right. Megan, do you think MindMGMP is one of those games? I do, though I am curious because we have a friend in our group who does not enjoy mind management, but I have not dug into why that person doesn't like it.
And so I don't know if they feel like there wasn't safety and that perhaps being the recruiter was just too stressful or if there are just other components, you know, mechanics, whatever of the game that they didn't enjoy and it didn't impact how they felt, you know, about our group relationally. I actually do know one of the reasons why. And that person was asking if I would add their comments here, and it has to do with actually something Paul mentioned already, and that's the 50-50 ending.
So if you get down to a point where your career is on one or two spots, you can only cover one of them or you can cover both and you have to choose, it feels like a dissatisfying ending if you want to do that, we could play something else. One of the benefits of our group is that combined we have an astounding library, so we could play other things just as easily. So that long title is called the Sator S-A-T-O-R Square. So it's Sator Arepo Tenet Opera Rotas.
And what's interesting about it is when you see the square, look it up, it reads the same forwards backwards, top to bottom, bottom to top. And it also was some inspiration for the Christopher Nolan movie Tenet. So there is an opera in the beginning and Rotas is one of the companies that's in there. And so he's incorporated the terms from the Sator Square into the movie, which is kind of cool. Thanks, Todd. So if this game is being played at game night, what do you want to play afterwards?
What's the double feature game that best goes along with Mind MGMT? More Mind MGMT. This is something I usually say, but in this case, because of the shift system, I think it's important to play the game multiple times in a night. Yeah, I can see that. Megan, what did you have? I think because there is that situation of the one versus many, I want to play something that is a pure co-op after we've played this so that we can come back together.
So this isn't even the game I came up with is not a game that our group even plays. But my first thought was something like Ghost Stories. Oh, wow. And some something I know. But that's a game I played and enjoyed. And yeah, something that we can all be in together to bring our recruiter back into the fold with the rogue agents so that hopefully if there are any wounds, they won't still be smarting after the co-op game. OK. Yeah, I can see that.
I was surprised by Ghost Stories as your pick because that game is hard, or at least the original version of the game is. So you might be bringing the recruiter back in the fold and then just getting destroyed because that game escalates pretty amazingly. It's a bonding experience. It is. It is. I had yet another release from 2015. So 2015 was in the house for this one. On these podcasts, I try to think of the featured game as being the main course.
So I have to come up with something that's a lighter digestif. And so I chose Spyfall for its espionage theme, traitor trying to blend in fun social gameplay. So I think that would be a nice one to stop with. But it doesn't bring anybody into the fold. In fact, you're trying to find that one person who doesn't know which scene everyone else is in. Yes. But it could be different teams, right? Yes. Yes. You don't know until the cards get dealt. All right.
So if you like fill in the blank, then you're going to like mine MGMT. Paul, what did you have for this one? I just said letters from Whitechapel. I can't help but compare the two. Yeah, I totally get it. Megan? I said if you like a mechanic like traitor mechanic or just in general social deduction kind of games, I think this has that same sort of vibe. And you know, our group has a lot of experience playing social deduction type games. We really enjoy them.
And so to me, mind management feels like a perfect fit with our group. I remember when I wasn't at the first few game nights where our group played this. And I remember hearing you talk about it and just thinking, oh, this seems like such a perfect fit for us. Yeah, I had pretty much the same thing. I had co-op deduction games. So taking the time to retrace the steps and reason where the recruiter could be. If you like that kind of whodunit, then this is a great game for you.
And I like the co-op nature of it because it's often hard for me to drop the blinders and be open to other possibilities when I'm the only person trying to solve the puzzle. And if you are able to be open to others and listen to other ideas, you're going to have a better time at this end, potentially finding the recruiter that much easier because someone else might have the real track that was followed. So if you don't like fill in the blank, then you're not going to like this game.
And for this one, I kind of alluded to it earlier and it's being the one person in a one versus many game. So I don't think it's fair to expect someone to always play the recruiter. And likewise, it's not fair to always be a rogue agent. Like you're going to show up to game night and I'm just going to be a rogue agent because I never want to be the recruiter. So if you don't enjoy taking your turn behind the screen, then you may not like this game. Did either of you have anything else?
I think if you don't like theme, you know, if you would rather. Or this theme in particular, right? Yes, I think there's no engine to build here. There's no workers to place. And so if that's what you're looking for in a game, this isn't it. Paul, did you have anything? Dave took my answer. Well, it's your answer first on the pot, I'll point out. Did this game replace a previous one for you? You know, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.
And now that I say that, I realize a lot of our listeners probably don't even know what a broken record sounds like. But I'll go with the letters from Whitechapel. OK, I think it's been completely replaced. This is the same experience in half the time and it changes the more you play it. So I'll jump in here and say that letters from Whitechapel actually got replaced by a re-implementation of it. That's called Whitehall Mystery and is supposed to play in half the time.
Oh, I have not played that. It's the same publisher and everything. So there may not be a need to examine it now because of MindMGMT, but that game is out there. Megan, did it replace anything for you? No, because our group, have we played letters from Whitechapel? I've never played. Well, I shouldn't say that. As far as I know, I've never played letters from Whitechapel. Not that I recall. Maybe someone psychically removed the memory of playing that from my mind.
So for me, there's not another game like this that we play. So it kind of stands alone for me. OK. And for me, the last hidden moving game that I wanted to play and did was Mr. Jack in New York. I would rather play MindMGMT now, even if it's two player co-op with the app. I think it's just a better experience. But I really enjoyed Mr. Jack back in the day. OK, this is a newer category for us. Soundtrack. What music would you want to listen to while playing this game? Any suggestions?
I think on one side, we can go with the obvious and think like James Bond soundtracks, Secret Agent Man. But I also think because of that song's a bop, by the way. But I also think because specifically because of this episode, we need to listen to the like early or late 2000s, early 2010s band MGMT. Since we can't seem to agree on whether we're seeing mind management or mind MGMT, we can pretend we're watching an old episode of Gossip Girl and listen to Electric Feel or something. OK, nice.
Paul, did you have anything? Yeah, so there is a video game that I think of when I play called Invisible Ink. So I'd just like to listen to the soundtrack for Invisible Ink. Nice. Well, Megan, you actually nailed one of the songs that I was going to reference because I want something groovy from the 60s. I want Secret Agent Man, which is by Johnny Rivers, or Incense and Peppermints by Strawberry Alarm Clock, Maskinata by Sergio Mendez. Yeah, basically anything on the Austin Power soundtrack.
And I'm down and would love to have playing in the background. So rating on BGG scale of one to ten. How would you rate this game, Megan? You want to go first? Sure. I rated it a seven. I enjoy it. I like playing it. Is it something I want to go to all the time? No. But am I happy when it comes out? Absolutely. Right. Paul, what would you have? Yeah, I rated an eight. I really enjoy it. I think it's a lot of bang for the amount of time it takes. And I think I just like this genre of game.
Wow. OK. I am once again going to agree with both of you. So I think the base game alone is a solid seven and I would leave it there. But once you start adding in the shift system, you add in the app for additional shifts, single player support, co-op support, and it bumps it up to an eight in my book. It's so good in so many different situations. So is it replayable and how soon would you want to revisit it? Well, I think in large part thanks to the shift system. Yes, it is very replayable.
And I feel like I haven't played it in a while. So I hope to revisit the game very soon. Right. So I have written in all caps. This is a complex question for this game and for us. And I'm not going to be like, oh, she's trying to blow up relationships here. I'm not. It's complicated. If I'm just thinking about myself, yeah, this game's replayable. However, in our group, we have someone who is frequently the host of our game night who does not enjoy this game and does not want to play it.
And I feel like that is somewhat my fault because I feel like this all started with me saying I didn't enjoy playing SideReel Confluence, which meant that anytime we were approaching a game night with six players, I would drop out so as to avoid us having six players and having to play SideReel Confluence.
And part of me thinks maybe the ethics of being part of a regular game group is that you just need to deal with it, play the game you don't like every once in a while, so that the other people in your group who do enjoy the game get to play it. But another part of me is like, oh, life's too short to play games you don't like. I don't know what I think the right answer is there. Obviously, we have other opportunities to play the game. But I'm really curious from a theoretical perspective.
I think this game is absolutely replayable. From a practical perspective, I don't know how replayable it is in our group, which is something to consider, right? Yeah, I understand exactly what you mean about sometimes you just got to play the game you don't want to. And we're going to be talking about that in our next episode. Mic drop. So I think it's definitely a replayable game. I mean, I could play it every couple of months. I wouldn't want to play it all the time.
But when I play it, Paul, I actually agree with what you said about the double feature. I want to play it multiple times in the same night. I think that's important. OK, any other parting comments about mind management and TM whatever? I think people should give the comic book a try. I was able to get it through the library. And I think it will make you if you if you enjoy the game, I think reading the comic book will just increase and enhance your enjoyment. I didn't even think about that.
That's great. Well, I want to thank both of you for being recruited into doing today's show. You did a great job. Thanks. And thanks for not recruiting me psychically. That's what I'd like you to think. Yeah, I don't know whether to trust my memory of this podcast or not. Thank you for listening to Replayable. Support for our podcast comes from listeners like you. Thank you for your support. You can find us online at Replayable FM, on Twitter as Replayable FM and on Instagram as Replayable FM.
We're all new to this. We're only going to get better with your help and your feedback. You can get in touch with us via email at Todd at Replayable.fm.