It's Wednesday, May four. I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. It was one of the main tools that helped us transition to a work from home model during the pandemic. Zoom and other video conferencing apps. They helped us connect and collaborate when we could not do so in person.
But a new study shows that compared to meeting in person, creativity did take a bit of a hit because we're so focused on the video screen during these meetings, we lose sight of our environments and moveless, both of which stimulate creativity. Erica Pandy, business reporter at Axios joined us for the toll that video conferencing took on workplace creativity. Thanks for joining us, Erica. Well, let's talk about Zoom and these other virtual meeting apps. You know, they were
huge help throughout the pandemic. Obviously, everybody had to go work from home if they could, and businesses really had to adjust very quickly. So these apps and and these meeting platforms really helped out a lot. But you know, a lot of people as the things started opening up, you know, the whole return to work discussion. A lot
of people still wanted to work from home. A lot of business leaders wanted people to come back, you know, they a lot of them really felt there was it was more effective being in person, the old work culture. And now we have a little bit of data to that maybe back that up. There was some studies basically saying that, you know, workover Zoom may not be as creative as that in person stuff. So Erica, tell us
a little bit more about it. Right, So the point you first made is so important to emphasize, right that these platforms like Zoom and other video conferencing platforms were so great because they let us all go home and we kind of went off without a hitch. So they were awesome for what they did. But now that we're settling into this, we're starting to realize that maybe this isn't the final solution. Maybe there's something else we can do to make hybrid work remote work better. And that's
where this comes in. I mean a lot of us have kind of felt it and it totally okay. You know, you here when you gather with people. Now I had a day's worth of Zoom meetings or oh I had to be camera on in that Zoom I was so tired, and we finally have some data to back it up.
There was this new research published out of Columbia Business School and Stanford Graduate School of Business in the journal Nature that put people in pairs either in person or on Zoom and had them come up with, you know, with ideas on how to use bubble wrap or frisbee creatively. So basically, just like, here's the task. The two of you are working together, what can you come up with?
And they figured out they judge these ideas, and the people who are working together on zoom came up with fewer and less innovative ideas than those who are working together in person. And you and you look at you can look at the studies and see exactly how they judged it. But the takeaway for me was okay, so there is really a creativity innovation cost of working on Zoom. And you're right, you know, when you talk to people
and totally a lot of them feel it. I myself, I work in radio, you know, I do the podcast as well, but I missed that interaction with my workers. And once we all started coming back, we were getting great funny ideas for shows and stuff and it just started happening naturally, So anecdotally I feel it too. I'm there. So what are researchers think is the issue? Then with a zoom, A lot of them say it literally is just staring at that computer screen. You're missing the environment
around yourself. You're just focused on that screen and you don't get some of that other natural visual cues as other movements that you know that helped promote that imagination. Right, Like sociologists and and folks who study innovation and virtual interaction tell me that a lot of it is about movement, Like you're saying, when we're on zooms, we're staring into
a screen. We are staying still, so we're not being too distracting or we're not you know, appearing distracted by looking here or there, and that lack of movement, that lack of visual stimulation can actually be stifling the creativity. So if you're in person, you can kind of take a second to look out the window, you can use your hands, you could even in a meeting, you know, get up, go over, fill your last with some water on the side. So all of those little things really
quite literally get the ideas flowing. And when we're taking that away, it can be a big problem. Yeah, And you know, just think about visualize how these meetings happen. Right, You're sitting still looking at the other person. A lot of times, you're looking at yourself in the video and make sure you know you're not looking weird or anything like that. You're checking yourself out a lot. You know, that's what's happened when you're looking at a lot of
these Zoom meetings. So you're not focused on that other stuff. And you know, to the point of what the study was looking at and the props that they were using, bubble wrapping frisbee, right, you know, if you're in person, you can motion throwing it, you can pop it. You know, whatever you're doing, you might not be doing it as much when you're focused on that other person on that
video screen. Right. And and so then the question kind of came well, you know, it's it's a bummer that there's a creativity cost on Zoom, But we're not gonna suddenly say, okay, everybody has to go back to the office, right, because we've got all these incredible benefits of distributed work, of hybrid work that we want to keep going to
the future. So I asked researchers, what are some solutions here where we can maybe inject from that creativity back in, And they said, you know what if we went camera off, what do we want to an old fashion phone call? Because I don't know about you, but I've had meetings where you know, everyone's on the zoom but their cameras are off. I'm maybe moving about. I'm pacing around my apartment as I'm taking the meeting, and I do feel
more refreshed. Maybe the idea has come because you're adding in that movement element, that kind of active element back in, and then you know, if you want to get even more futuristic. People are saying the metaverse is going to be a big part of the future of work. That way, if you've got this headset on and you're you know, with your colleagues in uh, you know, like outside somewhere virtually or or you know, on a in a cool place, and you can kind of interact that way, move around
in your own space, but be there with them. That could work to their said there's a course at Stanford that does this with students and finds that they're quite creative when they're in the metaverse. But you know, these headsets are still expensive, they're still pretty clunky. I don't know if I want to wear one all day, so that, you know, that's kind of exciting for what the future is. And you know, these video conferencing things are are such
great tools. We have've proved that. But to your point, right, the study didn't look at some of these other benefits, the economic benefits of working from home, that cutting back on travel time, the better quality of life. It's just about how we use it to keep that creativity going. And you know you're right. Just doing audio only headphones in you know, you can create that movement again. So
it is an interesting look. It's not like zoom and video conferencing has completely stifled creativity, but as we adjust, these are the things we got to look at. Absolutely. Erica Pandy, business reporter at Axios, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for having me. I'm oscar Mirrors and this has been reopening America. Don't forget that. For today's big news stories, you can check me out in
the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday. So follow us an I Heart radio or wherever you get your podcasts.