Why Teachers Are Still Quitting

still thinking about it. Leslie Gray Streeter, author and contributor to The Washington Post magazine, joins us to talk about conversations she had with teachers that left their profession because of the pandemic. Many felt guilt, anger, and heartbreak over their choices. Thanks for joining us, Leslie, Thank you for having me. We've been hearing a lot about the great resignation and you know, people leaving their jobs for something better,

just maybe not feeling like they're appreciated. Um, you know, everything really changed with the pandemic. Uh. For this story, wanted to focus on teachers, and you know, we've been hearing that a lot of teachers obviously left their jobs, a lot of them are still thinking about possible leaving. I guess we saw one in four American teachers reported considering leaving their jobs by the end of the last academic year. And you know, replacing teachers is not so

easily done. UM. So for your latest story, you spoke to seven former teachers kind of explaining why they left, what drove them to do it, and kind of what they're doing after that as well. So Leslie, help us walk through some of this. What we're teachers saying about

the conditions of the classroom last year. Well, I think that like so many people and other professions who participated in the Great Resignation, UM, there were already issues beforehand, like maybe there wasn't enough payment or there wasn't enough flexibility even before COVID and COVID exacerbated a lot of those conditions, and people are like, is it worked it for me to return? Even if you know, when it

made things, things are made even worse. And I think that for so many of the teachers that I spoke to, that was the case, whether it was feeling like you know, we've always talked about teachers being underpaid or being expected to spend their own money on supplies or to act as you know, combination social workers and parents and suppliers of decor all of it, you know, And I think that so much is that was made worse when you also there's no separation for so maybe teachers who were

teaching UM remotely because they might have their own kids and their own families, their own things to do, and there was no separation. The woman I spoke to the game of the story line Higgins, she spoke about that about she's trying to parent her toddler literally five time to go to the bathroom, and she's monitoring a bunch of middle schoolers, and added to everything else she's trying to do, it just was not it was she was suicidal.

She said she was absolutely depressed. And for other teachers, for instance, UM our teacher named Peggy, who talked about how she already had stress, is trying to figure out how to meet the emotional needs of these kids beforehand, and she said she didn't return in part because she knew that she would be so distracted by trying to then addressed the trauma that was piled on from COVID, which was packed onto the previous trauma they already had, and she goes, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on

academics because I'd be trying to figure out what was how could I help this kid who's t firaling like the rest of us work. So it just was things that piled on. Yeah, the first teacher that you mentioned, uh, you know, you you mentioned she had a toddler. She had to take a bathroom break. You know, she found it so stressful that she had to say, okay, three minute break for everybody, just so she could run and and do and do something real quick. And you know,

obviously you're in a zoom session. The kids are at home now, they're just kind of sitting there and and you know, she you know, it all bears down. I think someone you spoke to said it best, right, And you mentioned all those things that teachers do that we know that they do, right, social workers, surrogate parents, all that Teachers were already wearing so many hats. The pandemic just added more hats to that equation and it became really,

really tough. Um, So tell me a little bit about the conversations that you had with some of the teachers, because one of the things that popped up a lot was guilt. They felt guilty that they were leaving the profession that they you know, something that you know, they worked a lot to get to something that they always had wanted to be for a variety of reasons. But they felt guilt and heartbreak having to leave it, like they were leaving their careers and leaving their responsibilities to

the children. Well absolutely, I mean I think that if you know any teachers, and I think you know most of whom we had teachers, and we probably know some now in our adult lives. Um, they go into education not for the money, not for the status or the cloud. They go into it because of the calling to them. It is something that they feel they were providing as a service to their communities and to the future leaders

into humanity. And they go into this and some of it, you know, starts when they're young and they might not know as much. But the on particularly the career teachers who stuck around for a while, they did this because they love it, and there is a real feeling of guilt. It's not like leaving other jobs or you though this was just a job to me. Um, they take these

things very seriously. Every single teacher I spoke to, no matter what part they were in, what stage they were in their career, said to me, I went into this

because I loved it. I went into this because I felt I was supposed to do this, And so thinking of yourself as a teacher, like you know, myself as a journalist, have always thought of himself as a journalist capital j like it was my calling, Like I had to do this, And then you learn maybe that's not it, or maybe you don't have to stick with that enough to where you are stressed or suicidal or just not

thinking that you can get the job done. Obviously, COVID loomed large, and a lot of these decisions and you know, impacted it in many different ways. Some of the teachers even felt anger, you know, at the current situation. Um, whether it be mass policies, whether it be crazy school board meetings that we know we saw, Um, you know a lot of them felt like they were bargaining chips. Uh, you know when parents were saying, hey, we got to

send the kids back to school. But uh, you know, the teachers had fear for their own health as well. And you profiled a couple of teachers. I think there was two that had some type of severe asthma and you know, for them going possibly getting a respiratory's disease, that's pretty scary. And there's one who was pregnant, who had suffered a miscarriage earlier and was identified by her doctors in writing that she was recommended to cheat remotely

and she was denied. And I think that, like anything else, all of us felt. I think most of us, I know I did, felt some trepidation about at what point do I do? How do I do my job in a way to protect me and my family and that kind of thing. And when that one teacher who had already felt that she was not protective of a florityan teacher after what happened at Marjorie Stillman Douglas, even though she was like hours away from there, she felt that

vulnerability and it's a PTSD. So then she's like, are you gonna taketure of us? With gun laws, with mass laws, with being able to stay remote, what are you going to do? And she didn't felt they were do She didn't feel they were doing enough, so she left, and

once again she felt angry. The other teacher I interviewed in Florida, which is where I lived at the beginning of the pandemic and had a school a child in Palm Beach County Schools, which we left and still you know, has grappled with math man needs and that kind of thing. The teacher said, you know that she was watching these parents on these Facebook pages. She was lurking and going, I'm going to send my kids to school anyway, even if they get COVID. I mean, how how could you

feel you know about that? Yeah, and particularly in Florida. You know, the Florida Education Association said that there was a nine thousand uh shortage of classroom and staff shortages there, so and I guess that was from the month of August, but there's nine thousand people more that they could have needed to to help with all of that stuff. So

definitely a tough situation there. And then one of the other things that came up to with the teachers that you spoke to, you personal life outside of the classroom, which is so important. And when you're working so many hours throughout the zoom, you know, can't even take a break with the rest room, you know, then you have to grade, then you have to work on all this stuff. Um,

you know, even that personal life aspect of it. You know, when you're living and working all from home, you know, for a lot of people, that was a big shift, and and that was also hard to adjust to. Absolutely, there was a young man that I spooked to He

was the only male teacher that I spooked. And I gotta tell you a lot of people probably wanted to contribute to the story, but you know, you don't necessarily if you're still working there, or if you want to maybe go back, you're not necessarily going to want to go on record. So I understood that this was a brave thing a lot of the teachers did. But Stephen Lane for all teachers that have have left the professional sense, yeah, and loved exactly, although he said maybe I'll go back

one day. But you know, if he was a young man, he is a young man who's in authorities who said he didn't realize how much he wasn't home until he was teaching and went, wait a minute, I'm never here. It's because he built his life around teaching. It's like the lines from landsladded, she changed because I built my life around you, you know, And it was like I built my life around teaching, and now I have to change that. Are what are these teachers doing now after

they've left a profession. I know, some feel they're in a better place and a new job. Some others have said they haven't necessarily settled yet, they don't know what they're doing. But most of them, I think all of them feel happier with the situation. At least they feel happier, if not. I mean the one a couple of the woman from plumb Beach County who said, listen, I wasn't going to retire for another couple of years, and I'm kind of angry. I felt like I was supposed to

do that, forced to do this. But there is a sense of relief, certainly with a lot of them. Lenna Higgins, the first teacher I spoke to in the beginning of the story, is writing a lot and she's running a business. She has a game that she started, a board game with her husband, so she's doing that. Um. A couple of people, like Stephen Lane that I mentioned, is now writing curriculum for a private company, so he's still using

his education background. There's a woman from California who's now in Columbia at a project that is teaching teachers and training teachers how to teach from a culturally sensitive social justice perspective with its mind on disparities, and that's why she left because she felt that she always felt that there were these inequities and disparities and teaching and that it was you know, three days after her kids went back to school, they had a subsidized test, and it's like,

welcome back to this place. We haven't been for a year and a half. Here's a test that's going to determine what how you do for the next year. It's like, that's it's enough. It's enough. So um, I will also say, like I said, so many of these teachers, every single one of these teachers cares, like they said, they care so deeply, and they really want people to understand that this was not a decision that was made lightly. You know, this is not a decision that they went oh with

and learn what's the next big adventure. It was something that with some of them, held onto the last week before you know, the schools start school district starter until they had they would have until a certain time to make the decision. They would it to the very last day because they just wanted to make sure that they were making the right decision. And they ultimately all said they knew they made the right decision, you know, and to your point, you know, for the majority of teachers, right,

you get into it because you do deeply care. As you mentioned, we all know a teacher or had to have had a teacher that made an impact on us, and it was because they made those extra steps to help you learn, help take care of you, all of that, and and it was so tough throughout the pandemic, like it was for many people in many industries, but we rely so much on teachers. As you mentioned, you know, it just takes the toll on the person, and you know,

it's pretty unfortunate. So obviously we hope there's a lot of discussions on improving things in the classroom. Hopefully we get there, but for now, um, you know, these are just kind of it seems very emblematic of what a

lot of teachers were going through throughout that whole thing. Leslie, I appreciate, and I just I just want to add very quickly, so many teachers have written me to say thank you for doing this, even teachers who weren't involved in the story, because they're like, no one was telling our story and nobody was explaining how we felt. So thank you so much for doing that Leslie Gray Streeter, journalist, author, and contributor to the Washington Post magazine. Thank you very

much for joining us. Thank you so much. Goodbye. I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't forget difference days, big news stories. You can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday. So follow us on my Heart radio or wherever you get your podcast