How COVID Killed the Sick Day

more time to heal. Managers also weren't good role models as they took to working while sick. This is coming despite companies changing sick day policies to allow people more time to heal. Emma Goldberg, reporter at The New York Times, joins us for why employees can't seem to take a sick day. Thanks for joining Semma, Thanks so much for having me on. Well, let's talk about getting sick with COVID and then working through it. Anyways, it seems that here in this country we have a real problem with

NonStop work. And you know, a lot of people, obviously throughout the pandemic have had the opportunity to work from home things like that. You know, you can always you're always tethered to emails or whatever it could be. But a lot of people, instead of taking the sick days, taking the time to get better, we're still kind of trudging through it, and uh on all sides of it, right, managers were doing it, setting bad examples for their uh, for their other employees. You know, really kind of almost

has done away with the taking a sick day. So I'm gonna tell us what we're seeing out there with this. Yeah, I mean, fundamentally what you just said, there is a real sickness at the core of America's culture of sick leaves. There's about thirty three million Americans that don't have paid sick leave at all, and that's especially affecting low income workers. That being said, even people who do have paid sick

days often don't use them. And I think COVID is in some ways exasperbated that because so many people are working from home anyway, so it's pretty easy to wake up with a call or aches or chills and just continue logging on, zooming into meetings, answering emails, and not taking the time to fully recover. Yeah, you know, it's the pace of work that there's a lot of factors that go into it. Everybody else. If your project based everybody else's, the project always continues, right, and you're kind

of left behind if you have to sit it out. So, you know, you feel that urged. You know, I can jump on this media, can do a couple of emails here and there, and uh, it just kind of becomes this cycle where you just can't break out of it. I recently had COVID too, and I did the same thing. I worked a few days through it and it was awful. Yeah,

I gotta admit the story hardly inspired. You know. I I too at COVID and was working through it and and it is sort of attempting thing to do when you're alone in an apartment and you do need something to pull the time. That being said, you know, I think it's important to highlight the expectations it creates when, for example, employees see their managers working for COVID. Yeah, exactly,

And that's kind of point. You spoke to a lot of people who were in that position saying, you know, they created these new structures for sick time and paid leave. Some companies were giving their people unlimited days, like just go home, rest and get better. But then when it came time for them to take that time off, they didn't do it. And you know, they were on those emails, they were on those meetings, and you know, as you as you mentioned, just kind of setting that bad example exactly.

You know, people really looked at what their teammates are doing, they looked at what their managers are doing. So I spoke with someone who said he recently got COVID. It was a really high pressure week of work, including a week in which a lot of his teammates have flown out for a retreat. And so he worked right through it and now looking back, regrets that because you realize that it maybe didn't set the best example for his team.

And this is also coming at a time where you know, we are kind of moving into this different phase of the pandemic. It's not lockdowns and you know, all the strict rules anymore. And even companies that once had you know, changed their sick leave programs whatever it is, and even you know, providing some more pay for their workers are changing all that stuff. Amazon, Walmart, They've all kind of gone back to some of their pre pandemic models exactly.

I think it's it's a really interesting moment, especially as more workers are starting to return to the office. But in some cases on a hybrid basis, Like you said, some companies are dropping the special benefits they introduced during the pandemic, and at the same time you're seeing a counter push where mental health is really on the agenda for a lot of workplaces, and companies are trying to figure out how to support people and taking the time

off that they need. One thing you're seeing companies do is offer what they're calling mental health days or mental health weeks, where they shut down the entire company. So it's not like one person might be off but still getting emails and needing invitations from their colleagues. Everyone is really forced to log off. That's a pretty cool for you know, some of the companies that can do it, and you know employees that can benefit from that, but

obviously that's not the case everywhere. You know, just going back to my own example, I do the podcast, I do a bunch of other things, but we post every day pretty much for the podcast, and if I dropped out then we wouldn't have anything. So, you know, I told my producer, I was like, I'll work through some interviews, I'll do something. I was sweating at the end of those interviews. I was like, how to take a deep

breath at the end of it. I mean, is it just all in our minds that, well, you know, what do we need to do here in this country to get over that? I think it's it's such an interlocking kind of range of challenges, and it you know, the legal challenge of America being the only wealthy country that doesn't guarantee peticularly, it's you know, the cultural norms that that reinforces around working while you're sick. And then it's the example of people sat for one another and if

you reflected in their bosses. So you know, on every level, I think America is really kind of valorized working even while people are unwell. Yeah, and you know, on the on the other side of it too, does it really hinder how fast you get better? Right? And you say, oh, it's a mild case, so I can still do this, but you're not truly resting. You know, you're not giving your body that time to heal. And does it prolong the illness? So you know a lot of people say

a lot of people would say yes. It's a big question that people are asking, is is the absence of pay quickly by actually making people sicker? And I spoke with one woman who noted she or her husband, and her son all called COVID. Her son stayed home from school, her husband took a little bit more time to rest, and she felt too guilty, so she just worked right through it. And she reflected that she feels she might have healed a little bit faster if she'd taken time

to really sleep and let her body recuperate. Yeah, you know, you said she felt guilty. I think a lot of people feel that way, and you know, we have to break free from that and really do allow our bodies to heal and take that time. It's tough. It's tough in this culture that we have here in this country. But hopefully we can get that too, to be on better terms now, Emma Goldberg reported The New York Times. Thank you very much for joining us, Thanks for having

me on. I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't forget the effort. Today's big news stories. You can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday, so follow us on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcast