Level 64 - Banjo Kazooie - We Made it to Spiral Mountain!

Hello, everyone, Just giving you a bit of a heads up of something new that I'm trying for. Remember 64 another way to hear from you, the listener and viewer of the show. Voice cast dot app slash Remember 64. Leave us a message. It's completely free. You can do it on your phone, you can do it on a browser, and you can find the link on social media as well and at the description of this episode on your podcast app of choice. All right, on with the show, everyone.

You don't understand, it's after. Us. It's big, it's got huge teeth, a big beak, bulgy eyes. Feathers, fur everywhere. Yeah, and pigs can fly. No. Bears can fly bad guys. Beware, here comes Banjo Kazooie where you're both bird and bear with amazing powers. There's never been anything like this. Head banging, sky flying, rock hopping, egg shooting, tag teaming duo Banjo Kazooie, only for Nintendo.

Music. Welcome to Remember 64, where this week we are putting the puzzle together 1 collectathon world at a time. Hi everyone, welcome to the show. Hello again if you're a returning listener and viewer, and welcome if this is your first time to remember 64. Here on the show, we play and discuss the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between on the Nintendo 64's library. My name, of course, is David Betrangelo, and I'm just so happy we finally get to talk

about this game. I love it so much. Spoiler alert, no funny quip, no nothing. We're talking Banjo Kazooie. It's time. It's level episode 64. Let's do this, Jiggy. Look back the individual who may or may not have some sort of mild connection to this franchise. How you doing? Yeah, just a little bit. It only took us 64 episodes to get here. We diverted and went into Game Boy territory before we talked about Banjo, which I don't know how I feel about that, but at

least we're here now. So we're here. I'm good with it. We made. It thank you for made on this journey once again, Sir, thank you. Level 64, we made it. We made, oh, maybe that's what I should. I wrote, I wrote something down before we started like, oh, maybe that's, that's OK. But maybe just we made it is all we need. We made it. That might, that might be all with you, but it's not just me and you. It's not just the two of us. This is a special episode because it's 64 and hey, it's

kind of fun to make 64 a thing. I don't know, I thought it was clever, but maybe it's just, it's just silly. But I'm going to go with it. I'm going to run with it. And it's a franchise that me and you both love. A lot of people do. And we're going to bring on a series of guests. This is like a round table at this point. This time we have the entire Fun and Games podcast crew with us. We have Matt, Jeff and Sarah here to talk about Banjo Kazooie. Hello, Welcome to Remember 6. Hi.

Hello. I knew that was coming. Jeff is nothing if not predictable that that laugh was for the video version. You'll have to tune in to see. Please push me to the YouTube I got. You please, please do. Please do. Thanks for having us. We're excited to be back. I love that we did a retrospective over on our show where all of us got to participate in, much to Sarah's surprise, in the moment and. Then you were like moment a fantastic. It was really downplay it.

It was a fantastic. Moment it was. It was great. It was fantastic, yeah. And you, you both basically asked on the spot, well, we're doing Banjo Kazooie. Do you guys want to talk about it and see a lot? And so here we are. And so thank you for having us. We're really excited to be a part of this legendary journey through the good, bad, the ugly

and everything in between. Yeah, it's, it was great to be able to, to come on the show and talk about the 64 as a whole, you know, the retrospective episode so people can find out in the game fun and games podcast feed as well. But Matt, we've had you on the show before, Jeff and Sarah. We have not. But we did discuss a lot of the N64 in general. So I'm not going to, we don't have to go through the whole, you know, history of everything

with the 64 and everything. But Sarah, I'm going to start with you. Let's just chat about, you know, broadly speaking, what what your feelings are of the 64 and gaming kind of around this time. You have a pretty epic story of your experience with it at the time, but I think people should listen to that episode for that. But is there anything else that we? May yeah, I'll I'll look really good on this episode and not like a giant terrible human.

So anyway, I I'm not going to say any more about that. I love an N64 collect a thon. It's probably my favorite genre of game, Banjo Kazooie's, and up in my top five. DK 64 was my jam, right? I love a game that broadcasts to you what you're supposed to do. I need to become Tiny Kong and go get Purple Bananas to get that, and Banjo Kazooie has some amount of that, and I like that a lot.

It also has some really hard stuff where you're like, how am I supposed to know how to break that window without looking at a guide? I will say I replayed it this last week to prepare for this podcast because I am a good student and I want to get a good grade and podcast. It's a lot better with save states. I had a much better time playing it than I did as a kid. But I actually have a lot of love, a lot of nostalgia for the genre in general. I love a platformer.

I don't even hate bad camera angles. I think it adds charm to it. I think I am good at it and that makes me feel good. Nice, nice. I love that, Jeff, if you're there somewhere. Oh, I'm here. I'm here. Just kidding. How about you? That's actually a pretty good a pretty good jumping off. But we have talked about DK 64, which is actually I think the first episode that that Jiggy joined the show. So so that yeah, that was the that was about two years ago now. So jeez, time flies it.

Was episode 19 is when I hopped if I if memory serves. I can make it, I can look it up if you'd like. But I have a terrible memory, so I'm just gonna go with that. Let's just say it's that, yeah, we've been doing fun games for eight years. And I just real and like that. I'm still coping with that. The the time creeps up, the time will pass regardless. Yeah, It's it's a flat circle, right? Isn't that what time is? It's something like that. Yeah, something like that.

Jeff, I think actually Sarah puts a, it's a pretty good point out there to say, you know, collectathons are pretty well known on this console. You know that that is a huge part of what the N64 is, Banjo Kazooie or not. Is that something that tickles your fancy as well? So collect a Thon's? Yeah, absolutely. I love a good collect a Thon. I love exploring spaces, finding secrets, engaging with mechanics, overcoming

challenges, solving puzzles. I grew up with a PlayStation, not an N64, so 3D traversal for me went from control pad with maybe awkward shoulder buttons that kind of rotate the camera a bit to dual stick and I have. More. Yeah, it is. And so I and it's something we've stuck with across most gaming ever since. So my time with the Nintendo 64, much like I said on our retrospective for fun and games, it was mostly at friends houses and then as an adult it was with Sarah's guidance.

So there is a little bit of, I don't have the same nostalgia for some of this that everyone else does, but I still have plenty of games that I played that I love and I don't have the same love for the camera angles that Sarah does. Thank you for saying that Sarah. At least one of us likes it. I sort. I also played through Banjo Kazooie in preparation for this episode. But in true how I was as a student fashion, I started it a few days ago and so I just treated it like a blockbuster

rental. I am somewhere in Clankers Cavern right now. The game is currently paused behind me. There was a lot of cursing before we got on this. Call. That we need to hear about. That's a, that's a teaser right there that we got to get into well. He said he was in Plankers Cavern, so. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that explains itself. Basically one of the worst stages in the entire game. It wasn't so much cursing as just seething existential rage. That's fair.

I think. I just wait till rusty bucket. I know, that's why I said I'm like. That's where it starts to get even harder, though. I don't. I'm not saying that it's getting too hard or anything like that. Here's the other thing to understand. I would never say that I am the greatest gamer out there, but I am far from the worst. I'm pretty good in fact, and there is plenty of times where when it is flowing with Banjo Kazooie, it's great.

And there is plenty of where I see they're coming from what I see. And we, and I said this, I've got on record with you all saying this before, the N64 was a big piece of awkward but necessary evolution in a lot of design and a lot of ideas. And so Banjo Kazooie is definitely a lot of cool ideas, a lot of things I wish there was a better version of this game kind of thing.

Like, and there are out there and there's other things that people have gone on for, but there's some very deep frustrations that got me very upset, yes. Fair enough, fair enough. Matt, I know like an asshole. No, no, no. We're gonna, oh, don't worry. We're, we're gonna, Jeff, we're gonna dig right into it. Don't you worry. Good, good, good. OK, good. Yeah, we will help you through this. We will help you through this. Matt, I know that you're pretty excited to, to get a chance to,

to replay this and everything. And I say that because you wrote to Jiggy and I are just me. I can't remember if it was the group that that we had our chat and said, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this the the authentic way or as as authentic as possible. Tell us about that and how that went. Yeah, so I don't have it near me

actually, but yeah. So I had played some of the N64 stuff on the Nintendo Switch Online, like Mari 64, and barring the fact that that port isn't great to begin with, I was just frustrated with the controller because most controllers you can remap to anything. But I feel like there's something about the N64 controller in its shape that like I need the controller, the controller itself to really get the buttons down. And so the. Layout is is even more.

I don't know if unique is even the right word than even like the GameCube would be like if there's just the just the form factor of it, something about it is is of its own existence. I don't know what the word is. Well, because the buttons, yeah, it's the C buttons and the three prongs.

It's like the thing about the GameCube controller is even though it's a weird shape, the buttons map to like the standard Xbox 360 shape controller pretty well because it's the same amount of button and Agalog sticks. It's just that one's a weird shape. Whereas the N64 controller, it's got only the two shoulder buttons, the 1 analog stick, the three prongs, the C buttons like it doesn't map neatly to another controller. Jeff grabbed one of his N64 controllers.

And the fact that everybody like they designed this with this the D pad on the far left side, because I think they thought more people would do 2D navigation, but with the 3D and everyone holding the middle prong, that meant the Z button. And this created a great imbalance. And if you've got an L button and an R button, there's a lot of balance ideas of what you would want to do with that. But the Z button has kind of a trigger feel to it.

So this meant a lot of like the the crouching that you do in Banjo Kazooie do with the Z button. Cool, great, very natural. But it leaves you with an odd disconnect and an odd imbalance in what you do with the R button necessarily. Yeah. And so this. Is the authentic mat this?

Yes, See the. Y so because I don't have an N64 anymore and could have borrowed bars, I could have, but I also would have had no TV to hook it up to because I don't have an old retro TV. Yeah, and then you gotta get the the adapters and things like it's on the wall I. Went down the well of looking up like the the those. Adapters fine. Yeah. And so. That's fine. I decided since we talked about that, we were gonna do it and we were pushing it out to like about a month from when we had

last spoke. I was like, look, I wanted to get one of the replica N64 controllers through NSO for a while. I'd been looking for something to pull the trigger on. This was perfect. And so I did, and it came. And my first reaction was a reaction I've had before with getting new versions of old hardware was, boy, I remember this controller being bigger, but the fact was I was just smaller back then.

Jeff, when I was trying to get back to playing Gameboy Advance games on actual hardware, Jeff found a Gameboy SP for me. The clamshell without the back, like with just the front light for a good price. And so grabbed one for me, which I happily paid for and at his local game shop. And when he when Jeff got it to me, I flipped it open and put my hands on it and went this feels very tiny. This game, this console wasn't that tiny. And so like, it's perfect. For me it's.

Right. It's also basically a straight square. You know, when you hold like it is, it's kind of like holding the NES controller, like when I hold that now my hands aren't aren't huge or anything, but I can't give. Them all to me, I will play them. They are perfect for my hand size. I have a couple. Plane and I will take them. I have a couple and they are

functional. So, right, well, the thing I run into, especially with stuff like the NES controller, isn't so much the size a little bit, it's the ergonomics. Like I remember playing on that little blocky rectangle, you know, playing on the NES with that for hours, and this was great and it was fine. Like, yeah, your hands would sweat, whatever else, but this was perfect. And as ergonomics got better and better, you'd go back and go. We were fine with this. Well, but we should be so.

Safe you say that, but I played Banjo Kazooie this past week on my Nintendo Switch light and using the ZL button instead of an actual Z button to try to run with Kazooie and the trot was so much harder. It's not as intuitive. It like hurts your hand a little bit. I like, I wish that I'd done what you did, Matt, even though I did most of my playing on a train, so it's probably for the best. I was just on my Switch light, but yeah, this game was meant to be played on an N64 controller

and it was a bit of a challenge. Even having played it and what I thought was beating it. I'll get to that later as a kid and then beating it again now. It was a much different experience and I prefer the older ergonomic design to the way it was on the Switch. Yeah, I would say the button mapping for the N64 controller, I can't think of a better way that they could have done it for this game. And I did my playthrough on original hardware on our TV.

Because I don't, I don't. This is my first time playing through, like truly playing through it. I don't deserve modern conveniences. I need the true experience to speak about it honestly. Yeah, which is totally legit. But for me also as someone who had been wanting to play it the whole way through, which I may have done when I was a kid, but I definitely don't remember, I wanted to have a comfortable, a comfortable to mind nostalgia,

at least controller experience. And like it worked really well. The controller feels pretty legit. I mean, I can't compare it to the original hardware because I don't have access to it at the moment, but like for what my muscle memory was like the analog stick took a couple days to like kind of really go through its paces to feel

comfortable. But it I adjusted pretty quick And like, while I will admit that I would have never gotten through this game without safe States and modern conveniences, I did 100% it and I did not set out to do that because I rarely and like Jeff can speak to this often whenever we talk about our favorite genre Metroidvanias, I rarely 100% those. It's Pokémon games too. I rarely 100% them. I want to beat them. I want to go the extra mile for what I feel is comfortable, but then that's it.

But once I got to the point, because this game basically to complete it, you need like 4 jiggy, 4 extra jiggies and like 20 notes. I was like, well I'm almost there, I'll look up a guide and I'll finish it. It was worth it, but I definitely wouldn't have done it if I was playing on the N64 because I remember getting the 3D All Stars pack, playing Mario 64 for like 20 minutes and

going. Maybe I don't love this game as much as I used to, which isn't really possible, but I think it really was the weird controller layout because it's based like like Jeff said, the Z button is very unique in the fact that it's meant to be a trigger, trigger feel and having it on the shoulder doesn't work because ergonomic. Ergonomically, it wasn't meant to be that way.

And so I'm excited to dive into more of the NSO library with this controller now that I have it, because there are a bunch of classic games from it that I haven't played in ages that I want to revisit. Yeah. And it's great that Nintendo is providing that. If they're giving us games to your NSO, being able to do that, it's it's ideal. Yes, I'm playing on modern, I'm playing on the original hardware because that's what we do. And that's why that's how we're weirdos.

But the fact that any modern gamer can have that N64 controller experience more aligned with its design is honestly great. Yeah, yeah, 100% yeah. I, I talked about this a little bit on on your show when we talked about 64, but I guess it's somewhat similar as playing a handheld because similarly to to you, Sarah, I had to kind of

play this on the go in a way. Because when I decided to play this, I played it in September when our son was not sleeping well at all and he was sleeping on my chest essentially almost every single day. And I was like, I need a comfort game. I need something I haven't played in a while. I'm going to make it an N64 game. I, as if anyone's watching, can see that I own the entire library of the Banjo Kazooie

franchise. So I was like, you know what I can get away with legally, you know, robbing this thing on my Steam Deck, which I did. So it has a very almost the exact same layout button layout as what the switch would have. You have that R2 or L2 like that button is up there.

The C buttons are the little joystick in the corner which is so so like that I think is actually the bigger problem for me is that but but the Steam Deck is also larger and I find more comfortable than holding the switch for longer for myself anyway so. See, back to my little hands. The Steam Deck is just too big. Totally fair, completely fair. I I think at times it does actually feel a little bit clunky in a way. But it it, it, yeah, it is.

I mean, there's more, there's more in it, I guess is part of it, right. So. It's some this is this is a QRD T5 or whatever, but like a Horry pad or something, you know, it's something that that shapes shapes your hand better. The joy cons I they're they're too small even for me. I wouldn't say I have big hands either, but I get a little cramped sometimes when I play there in handheld for long periods of time.

Yeah, that's with the joy cons. But I will say that this is a game that you should you should really try to play the N64 controller. I'm glad other people said it because I have. I was literally going to war on Twitter about this yesterday. Well, that was your first mistake, was going on Twitter I think. Right, I was well you. Just go to war the second you log in. Yeah, yeah. Basically isn't that. What it is just it was just talking about, right? It's buried.

It's buried somewhere in the privacy settings, Yeah. Yeah, somewhere. Good luck with that. For me the worst thing about playing with a modern controller like not having the C buttons. I can tolerate it for the most part, but honestly shooting eggs is a nightmare with a joystick. That's exactly what it was. That is the worst thing and would make me say any version that uses a modern controller. That's not the way to do it. I.

Figured out another way though. On the Switch, you could hold down the right trigger and push the top on the buttons like forward. It was much better. I, I looked it up, I was like, I'm not gonna make it if I have to use the joystick. For eggs. Slamming up on the joystick. Oh my God. Yeah, no, it was bad. And like you have to shoot eggs forward so many times. Yes, you. Do and you have to be precise about shooting forward because if you move that joystick slightly left or right, it like

doesn't hit the right zone. It's just like, no. So yeah, I had an issue with that. I wonder if, I wonder if the Steam Deck default would have been that too, because I didn't, I didn't even try that. I should have looked it up. That's a great. Idea. I looked it up. I was like, there's got to be a way to shoot eggs because it was not this hard. Yeah, it's not. Oh yeah, just hold. ZR and hit the top button. I was like, oh, I'm going to do it.

It means you accidentally use your gold feathers sometimes because you hit the right button and ZR. But it's OK. It's it's worth it. Screw those gold feathers. They're not. They're not as critical, yeah. They're not as critical, yeah. You could always get more. They're sometimes not, But OK, while we're shitting on modern conveniences in this game, I have a couple of things I want to say about why it's good.

One, you're 10 years old. You have 90 Jiggies or sorry, 90 notes, and mom says it's time to go to Taekwondo. You have to leave. You can't leave the N64 pause for several hours. Specific you can. Try and then it'll be frozen. By the time you get back the. The actual just ability, and I feel this way about most games that you can play on the Switch or the Steam Deck to turn it off and just pick up right where you left off is amazing. And especially in a game as punishing as Banjo Kazooie.

Right. So I assume that all of our listeners know how to play it. But if you die, if you drown, if you get hit by something, if you jump off something super high and think you can land and don't, you die and you lose all of the notes that you've collected. It's so punishing. And that mole is just so proud of you, of your record of notes that you got. And I and I understand Kazooie's vitriol for him. Yeah, we should have a whole side thing about Bottles.

We everybody hates him in the game, so therefore I kind of like. Him, I mean, I, I, I appreciate him, but I can understand it sometimes. I had the thing of on the flip side where Sarah, I told you yesterday while I was playing through the game, reset on me. Oh no. Guess how many notes I had? Oh no. 90. 9/4 I was I was like getting to the last area of get like getting the last 6G. Yep. Yep, Yep, no, that's wait, what? So it just. It just that was treasure trove. No.

Don't be a baby. That's what I was like. Get those again. Yeah, so treasure trove is a treat. It's a treasure, okay? Okay, we're talking about treasure trove. I came up to Jeff who was like, I can't get this swimming. I was like, what swimming are you doing in treasure trove? Really one Jinjo? I was like, oh, you're going to have to do a lot more swimming. No, no, no, no. This this was a specific thing not about. Oh, the swimming physics. Swimming controls.

I know those were going to suck. It's that. Yeah. The second you get in there, the shark spawns in it. You know what? All I got to do is get myself in the right spot, do a quick shot down to that Jinjo. It's fine. Do I have depth perception on the N64? No, I barely have depth perception in real life, let alone on the N64. So that's fine. I just need to align myself. How do I aim and align that better? Getting the exact right spot.

Otherwise you've overshot it. What is the collision detection on a Jinjo? I went through his head. Now you didn't touch it. Help me help help. Help. Screw you, you dumb muppet. I got him. I saved that Jinjo. I saved the other 4 Jinjos. But the gulf of difficulty and control frustration between yes, the utter joy of navigating Treasure Trove Cove with its little ups and downs and everything else and getting that one Jinjo. It's it's. It is that it is the.

Find which one it is. Has a scrub. It's. The orange one that's right underneath the. Star right under the pier when? You look at the red 1, the docks. It is the first one. You see them immediately. Here we go. And you hear him. So to your there he is, vitriol towards the Jinjo's yelling at you. I like that because I'm like, wait a second, there's one nearby. Where is he? Where is he? Yeah, yeah. It's it is.

The you. Know what, it's actually very in line with a lot of design of that era when you have the pre boss cinematic that happens. Oh my God, that's so cool. I died. All right, let's start this again. Oh, it's the cinematic again. Well, I died. Oh my God, I have to load it. I hate that that particular decision and I hate that part. Too. It's like it was one of those words, yeah, no having it in there so you know it's there,

Super useful, super cool. If I'm doing three other things because all of the collectibles are on top of each other and I'm fighting for my life at Clankers Key and trying to get air bubbles and I've got the Jinjo just yelling for me. It's it's lost its charm. It's it's fine. It is just from case to case. These are just this is not a a

condemnation of the whole thing. I'm just venting I. I, I like the, the thing I noticed is, and this is, this is not just this game, but games of this era even more, or more specifically 3D games just because of sound design and stuff. But, you know, I'm playing this with headphones on, whether I'm on the couch or where there was, you know, sit in front of the TV or something.

Now I have that option. Whereas, you know, 2530 years ago, I'm sitting with this tiny little CRT and barely hearing what's coming out of these broken speakers of ATV that's probably already 15 years old. When something like like, you know, characters are kind of calling you out or you're hearing notes or you might hear some of the atmospheric stuff. Like for now, like right now if you're inside the crab here and there's like water dripping and stuff, you can hear that in your

headphones. At the time, I didn't have any stereo sound. I didn't have anything to tell me that like there was something extra going on here. It was just go in, you hear some water splashing 'cause you're walking through it and maybe you'll find a note or maybe you'll find a puzzle. And I just, I it might, it might get on you a bit if some of these moments are a little bit more frustrating, like you're talking about Jeff. But like, I don't know, I just get too charmed by this.

I get too. Charmed. Oh, I guess if it's. Frustrating. Some cool stuff, some great stuff. I guess the quiz at the end was really hard for you then when they were like, what? Where did you hear this song? And you're like, oh, I can't even hear what you're playing.

At the time, no chance. I'm sure it was a guess or I'm sure I tried multiple times and cause and then at that time when you're younger, you have the time to right over and over and over and you're talking about safe States and stuff. And it reminds me, I talked about this when we did Majora's Mask, where I think that's a that's a great game. And it was the first time that I played all the way through it when we did that episode. But you know, that is a game

that is based around time. Like yes, very clearly, yes. And I just didn't. I just don't have that opportunity or that chance right now to be able to sit there and do this quote UN quote, the way it was, it was created. So having safe states in a game like that really saved my ass because I played that on NSO at the time on a game. OK. So let's talk about save states. I played all the way through the Haunted Mansion level 100% in all of them. Yeah, with no safe states, I was

like, this is going to be great. And then I realized it was yesterday and we were recording today. So I decided, OK, it's time for some modern conveniences to get me again to get a good grade in podcast and finish this game. It made the hardest levels of the game trivial in Click, clock wood, all those times when you fall off the tiny little path or one of those parrots, you know, pushes you off. I save stated right before that it doesn't matter, everything's

easy. It was still frustrating. Jeff still came in to me cursing, trying to beat that level. But the place that it was the most ridiculous was the quiz. I would they'd ask a question, I'd save state. I'd guess I'd load. I'd guess I'd yeah. I'm taking notes. Yeah. Just ask, I can help you get good. You you said the answers are randomized. So for some of them, some of the things like where did you hear this sound is not randomized.

All the terrible things that Grinchilda's sister says about her are apparently randomized. You can't look them up. She says different things. Which is. That's what I'm taking notes on right now.

Yeah, yeah, I would. But I so this seems like a good spot to bring it up. There are some thematic problems with this game and that the whole premise is that the villain is fat and old and we're going to steal a child so that she can be young and hot and her sister, who's clearly a huge bully, waits around to tell you mean things about her sister. Don't relate this at all to what I said on the podcast the other time about being mean to siblings.

But anyway, it's real hard to watch in 2025 all of this like fat phobia, old phobia stuff that like really doesn't hit the same way it did in the late 90s. And yeah, I didn't want to listen to Brent Hilda totally dunk on her sister. So that's where safe stating was really good. Yeah, I just. I thought it was worth mentioning, although one other thing that's not a modern

convenience to this game. When you push save and quit, which as a child you think means save your progress, there was no save icon, there was no anything. And it suddenly takes you to a game over screen where Gruntilda gets real hot and your sister basically is her life is ruined. It's devastating. I was like you said, save and quit, not lose. You're quitting. You're leaving. But Gruntilda was hot, though, wasn't she? She was. She was, really. Hot. Look at that dress. Mumbo thought so.

I mean that. Mumbo. Yeah, Mumbo. Mumbo. Mumbo no one's. Also a little bit of a problem if we're talking about. This listen the mumbo lore is crazy because mumbo mumbo and Gruntilda. So Gruntilda was like his I I I I'm trying to remember what the instruction manual says. It says something like Gruntilda was his student and Mumbo, like, taught her magic, and then she got mad at him about something and turned his face into a skull, and that's why he looks like Mumbo.

And then it's never addressed. It's never, like, they never talk about it at all. It's just like this little blurb in the instruction manual. In classic fashion. Yeah. So basically like, she turned his face into skull. He hates her. It's a whole thing. And then the end. He's just like, well, you're hot now, so. I mean, Mumbo's got a lot of things to say about people being hot in the end and that stuff too, but with, you know, waitress carrying watermelons in front of her chest again. 90

Well, she asked for that. This is This is rare wearer's take on Aku Aku from Crash Bandicoot, I'm guessing and. You know. You got to have a magical protector, but we also got some jokes. I don't know. Yeah, Rails just like that. They they are and like that. And again, when it hits, it's very funny. Well they break the 4th wall with Mumbo, he says what he's like the best shaman in the game or something. Which I always I like when a game or a movie or something breaks the 4th wall.

Makes me smile. Yeah, it's got. This game does get a lot too. Like I feel like all of Kazooie's snark is aimed at bottles. Like I love cross time. It's like. I love it. I love the back. It's so funny. It's one of my favorite parts. I, I, I thought that I would get tired of the dialogue because I've seen a lot of people like I've watched tons of content creators I enjoy cover this game. One of my favorite content creators is on this call with

me, Mr. Jiggy, look back. But like, like a lot of folks have covered this game and over, I've watched more coverage of it than I've replayed it. I hadn't played it in a long time. And a lot of the things that folks like some call me Johnny and a bunch of other folks have complained about is like the constant vocalization of the of the words gets annoying because the same stuff the whole game. But I don't know now how did I've replayed. I don't agree. I think the sound design is

incredible. I think the vocalization is cute and fun and never really that annoying. I mean, like Gruntilda's voice is annoying, but I think that's by design, basically. But like every time any other character talked, I was just enamored, like, and some of the characters that I didn't remember, I was excited to hear what they sounded like, right? This was the earliest versions of voice acting we got in games like this before they could do for some of the game's full voice.

And I, I just, I don't agree with those takes that it gets grading. I mean, again, I also had an easier time of playing the game because I did save state and stuff and streamline a bunch of it. And I imagine if I played for twice as long and got stuck on twice as many things, it'd be different. But I don't know, I, I think that it's overblown that the voices get annoying in this. I think it's fun. And like Dave was saying, like I love Kazooie's snark.

Like it's some of the best writing in the entire game. Is whatever new nickname she has for Bottles this time. And I, and I would even say that for all the frustrations that have already aired and everything else, I never got annoyed at the voices. And I definitely have the and I have the syndrome of I'm calm. This is fine. And now I'm frustrated. And when I get frustrated with games it. Do you know the concept of this bitch eating crackers? Where?

You get so mad that anything happening around you and then there's this bitch eating crackers kind of thing. Like that level of frustration happened while playing Banjo Kazooie. But at no point did the voices bother me. Those were unobtrusive and characteristic. I mean, again, I played the original Gex so much on the PS1. You want to talk? About tail time. It's tail time. This will be great for my collection over and over again,

and that gets grading. But when it's just some noise, it becomes part of the background, and the sound and music design is utterly beyond reproach on this game. Yeah, you know, yeah, I would say that the voices don't get annoying, mostly because whenever they pop up, there's something actually to be said. Yes, that's related to the plot or the level. It's never, with the exception of Gruntilda randomly in the layer popping up and like,

taunting you. Yeah, you never have like random instances like you do in Gex where he just randomly will say something or make a quip, you know? Yeah, So I think, I think that plays a huge factor into it. And plus, I love Mumbo's voice. I just want to say his is my favorite. The oh, I got a fuck. It's it's amazing. It's my favorite. It's just like in my head forever. Hey. Jeff, what's your favorite?

Yeah, Jeff, definitely Kazooie. I mean, honestly, because there again, even before I like sat down to play this, the characteristic sound for me, it's like, what does Banjo Kazooie sound like? Yeah. Yeah, of like running around and I'm like once I got that ability, I'm like, yeah, there it is.

Yeah, let's. Go. There it is. And again, rather than having like cool in however you want to spell cool with big air quotes, like quips going on every time you use a move that like rotates maybe 2-3 that you're doing this move over and over again there it's it's almost music. It is a tone.

It is a motif that goes along with whatever is happening, which is another piece of OK, the your duo of Banjo and Kazooie like almost form into a different shape when something is going on, when the beak attack is happening, when you're doing the job, when you're when Kazooie is walking and the sounds going with that further this idea of satisfaction of doing the thing you set out to do. So hell yeah. Yeah, I think.

I think also, really quick, this is a thing that we didn't really address in the N64 episode, but like the sound design, we did talk about this a little bit with the limitations pushing the music and other things. The limitation pushed the voice acting, too. I think of some of the most iconic sounds in video games. And it's Banjo Kazooie's voice. It's Lynx voice that. Yeah, yeah. From like the N64 Zelda's, you know, or Mario, like Mario's

triple jump. I hear in my head when I talk about it, the progression of it, because it's, it had to be memorable because they had so little to work with. They had to make those moments stand out. And to that point, something I love in Banjo Kazooie for the sound design is there, again, a lot of what they do with these things is they get the clip and then they can alter it and play with it because you just have the thing and then you run it

through parameters. You know Grant Kirkhope is the voice of Donkey Kong. Not because he's his voice goes low enough to do. OK. Because he just did it and then pitched it down. And Banjo Kazooie, if you hold down the button to speed up dialogue, their voices get higher because you're playing it on Fast forward. It's so good I. Love it. And so many of the voices are just reused too and just pitched like Clanker is Banjo's voice just really slowed down, which is amazing.

Yeah, and if one. Of these were actual dialogue, it would be a monstrosity. Yeah, right. It wouldn't work. It just it just it would not, it wouldn't be the same meaning that. Same feel like. Hey, wait a minute. Like, you can't tell. You can't tell. Especially as a child playing this game. You can't tell that that's the same voice actor, just like, pitched. Yeah, there's no way you can't tell. Even now you can't tell. That's like I got. I got no beef with the sound

here. That's just good design. Music and sound is so important in this game. It's so important that the main characters are named after musical instruments. You have to collect musical notes. Like, it was not an afterthought. It was definitely a focus throughout the game. Yeah, great. And Grant Kirkop did an amazing job. Too you're here. I remember we when we interviewed Grant Kirkop and for our show and I mentioned that to Sarah you you had you had a message you wanted me to impart

to him. That was was it The Haunted Mansion music was was a huge part of your childhood. Mad Monster Mansion. There it is. Mad Monster Mansion No. No no, the the music in the DK 60. 4 the DK 64 I'm sorry. Oh. Creepy castle, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And it was one of the creepy, creepy Rare games. I'm sorry. That's fair. No, I thought I I was like, did I tell you to say oh, banana to Grant Kirko? Because I don't remember that. But that would have been really cool.

Yeah, I mean, this, this soundtrack I've championed everywhere. And like, it's funny too, because I remember, I thought I would only remember some of it. And then when I replayed this game, like literally every song, I remembered immediately I was grooving too. And like. And yeah, I mean, Grant Kirkhope was one of those like, pie in the sky dreams to interview. And the fact that we got him on the show still to this day kind

of blows my mind. And like, it's because all of my favorite games from this era, he did the music for or advised on the music for and continues to work. And like, you know, I think that this soundtrack is iconic because the game is, but it's also because it and its sequel have some of the best music and video games, full stop. And like and not only does grant prove that with these soundtracks and DK 64, but he also proves that with his like remastered stuff. He re jiggy select songs from

the soundtrack and like. Each song is basically a yeah, he's got vinyl version, like, and, and what's really amazing is like Grant, Grant told us in the interview that he was in metal bands and like, he's got a wide taste of music and like, he flexes that muscle on this record. One song is in the style of metal, one's more classical, one's more dreamy, one's more retro. Like, it really is kind of astonishing how malleable his music is. Oh, those records are bright

green. Nice. It's. So cool. Yeah, it's. Freaking like the jump pad. It looks like the jump pad. Yeah, that's amazing. So one of the ones too, where they had like different choices. So you can get some that were different colors, I think, Yeah. Yeah, I got the spring pad. I made it look like the spring pad. I'm like that's. That's a great idea. Yeah, I. Got this little upholstery sign which is. Oh nice. And they totally goofed up and he sent me two. It's 'cause he knew you were

jiggy. Look back. Yeah, exactly. Probably. And, and I will also say that Banjo Kazooie has probably my second favorite pause music right after. Let's see if I can find BOM BOM. BOM, BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM, BOM. There you go. You don't have to find it now.

I don't have to. Find it this is actually it's it's it's crazy that that we're talking about like just like the music and how it's sort of ear worm is kind of the wrong way to say it because ear worm almost has a negative connotation to it. But there's only so much music that I usually that I typically listen to a little too loud for to play in the house with, you know, at the time that I was playing this and since then, you know, under A1 year old in the

house. I'm not I'm not playing system of a down. I'm I'm not doing it right. I'm I'm just it's just not eventually he'll like it, but not right now. So I, I, I find whether it's Spotify, YouTube, whatever it is, and I find other versions of soundtracks that I enjoy and this is one of them. And there is a number of piano renditions and acoustic renditions of this done by other artists and stuff. And it's just great to listen to.

Like it's not exactly the same, but they put their fun little spin on it. You know, some 11 in particular that I listen to also has, you know, the original trilogy of, of the Donkey Kong games in their own rendition too. And it's very like acoustic like like when she plays the the drums or the bongos in the Donkey Kong one, for example, she's like just tapping like on the desk or on her seat or something when and playing the piano.

It's just, this is something that is the music for this game has been playing in my house since my son was born 10 months ago. And it's like at least once a week I'm listening to this from start to finish. And it's just good background music. It's friendly, it's fun and it's just, it feels good to listen to it, even if it's not the original version and I don't have it playing on the TV or whatever it would be. It's it's just. It's very happy.

It's very happy. Yeah. And at every level, which I think is rare, no pun. Yeah, but every level has a distinct sound and feel to it. Using somehow it changes using the same sound sound font, but it every level feels like it's supposed to feel like right now we're watching freeze Easy peak feels very wintry, feels very, you know, Christmassy time like and it's all just happy. And I think it's really rare in a game that every levels track is good. Like usually you have a track

where you're just like that. That one's OK, you know, whatever. I can't think of one that's just OK. I really enjoy all of them. Yeah. Yeah, so Matt and Jeff will tell you this. I'm not a huge music person. If it wasn't on the CD in my car in 2006, I don't know it. Every time I got to a new level in Banjo Kazooie on this playthrough, it was like core memory unlocked. And I was like, why do I know this music so intimately? I I play this game a couple of times, but not a ton.

Turns out I spent even on this playthrough over an hour in every level, which means I listened to the music straight for over an hour in every level. And I think that that part of that is it's so good, right? You don't feel like the time goes by because you're enjoying the music, you're enjoying the gameplay. Oh man, I didn't think to ground pound here. I was using the RB1, the pack one. No, no, not the pack the. 1 lbs here. This is This is a nub. I pass pound. All the time.

You gotta jump. I do too, but it takes so long. AB is faster, isn't it? Yeah, the PEC is. Faster Oh. No, I was. I didn't use the PEC, I used the the other one the like. Shoulder charge. Oh, they're so. Hard no, that's even slower. I try. Jump back, jump backs. I trust the hit box of the ground pound. In the water. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Man, I like, I like this level so much. The other thing is, while while we were talking before I'm going to go back to a conversation we

had just a couple seconds ago. I found the mumbo jumbo text from the manual by the way. Oh yes please. And what it says, so it says a former teacher of Gruntilda's, this mysterious shaman was betrayed by his pupil for he could prevent her from putting his magic to bad use. The witch transformed Mumbo's face into a mask of horror to remain that way until the day she's overthrown. Well, I'd like to say that maybe he'll be OK, but I know there's a sequel game which I've also played.

And it looks so iconic. So they have to find an excuse. We can't put it no. Yeah, although, wait, so this brings me to the thing I teased in my intro, which is I thought I beat this game as a kid because I didn't believe in watching credits. So I got to the end and I turned it off and I thought I'd beat the game this time. I watched the credits and realized Nope, just kidding, there's a final battle I've never seen. Oh yeah. And you got to that.

And I was like, yeah, rare does that all the time, you know, like Donkey Kong Country. You're like, I don't know. That I didn't watch credits. I was like, I beat the game, I got the credits, the end. Goodbye, turn it off. So yeah, apparently thanks to you guys, I have officially beaten this game the first time. No, no, no, no, wait. Now wait. Did you 100% it? No, I would have if I'd had two more days. I I'm down like 12 jiggies and sorry, 12 notes and four jiggies. Yeah, so I I got 100.

Percent it. Yeah, I did not 100% at this time. Let's. See, I got I got 100 a hundred Jiggies and 995 notes. And I think I said either on your episode or we talked about it previously another time, those five notes were driving me nuts. I couldn't do it. So I stopped. I just couldn't do it. I just was like, I didn't want to look anything up you. Have to start at the beginning every time and that's what makes it really hard. Just Jiggies, you can go for it.

That's fine, Notes. It's real. It's harder, yeah. And they were in the last last World, which was much harder to get anyways. Oh well, actually that's an interesting point. Real quick, click clack. Would that last World, I didn't recognize the music in it when I first got there. I was like, did I never play this one?

No. The music is different in every single season and so I didn't spend the same kind of time with it. And that would be also too, like, it's the same with just gaming in general around this time and of that age when everyone's a bit younger and stuff like, are you always getting to the end of the game? No, not especially a game that is, you know, between 8 to 10 hours as a kid, you're gonna play over and over and over. You're gonna start again. You're gonna, you know, it's not

always that way. Like, for me, I, I, I remember beating this game a couple times. But for the most part, it's those first few worlds that really stand out. Yeah, of course. And, and are and are great, just like the rest of them. But like, that happens in Donkey Kong, that happens in Goldeneye even, you know, like things like like, Oh yeah, I just keep naming rare games, but you know what I mean? As an example. Starfox 64 Starfox. For. An area far more than you play Area 6. Yeah.

Yes. And. Yeah. So and to that end as well, thinking about playing this as a kid, like Dave, you're talking about like as an adult, as a parent, not necessarily having the kind of time to throw into this. I mean, if I played this as a kid, I probably would have loved that. And I almost definitely would have put hours and hours in because I'm very used to, you know, you learn the idiosyncrasies you get over

whatever frustration points. Like I could sit here and go, yeah, it's bad design or we've gotten better and this is the best they could do or whatever else at the time. But also, I was playing with a deadline for wanting to talk about it here. So I also know that every time I died and I lost 40 notes, 90 notes, whatever it is, it's like, I just want to finish this. And that is not the attitude you need for this game. There are areas where I found, OK, this is just really sloppy.

Whatever controls or I'm upset about it, or I need to take this slower. I need to take a deep breath and it works. And that is also a thing to where we're all on here talking about games and we're like, all right, the next one's this one, The next one's this one. We almost have a, we've given ourselves assignments and deadlines and so this is a game that is a 8 hour game, but it takes 25 hours to make it an 8 hour game.

It's. One of those that's, yeah, yeah, if, if you're, if you're doing it the, the quote UN quote authentic way, like you're saying. And in that way, yeah, you're, you're probably going to replay a few things here and there. And that's just how it goes. Like my my play through says that it took me 9 hours and I think 45 minutes or something to do that. That stops and starts. That's probably a couple safe states that I did here and there.

So realistically that's probably closer to 11 or 12 would be my guess. But yeah, that's also more familiarity than let's say yourself Jeff, where you're didn't play it in the same way that I did grow enough that it makes a difference. The first like 3 worlds I breezed through as if they were just, you know, it's secondhand knowledge. Like it's just whatever. You know, yeah, you can all mock me and laugh at me and you should, but also it's my first time with them.

And yeah, no, my timer is currently just shy of three hours. And I know that some of that is because I paused the game to make lunch one of the days. And that's how I know the pause music is so good because. At no point I. Even think of of stopping that, I was just like, hell yeah, I'm like dance around the kitchen, dude. That's great, dude.

Yeah, it's excellent. It's funny because it sounds like it's almost like, you know, it's a ticking clock, kind of like, come on, get back to it. But I don't really want to. But it's not. Stressful. It's not a stressful. Act and having learned a little bit about banjo playing from some friends, I recognize this is actually not that. It's extremely chill. Yeah, because it's an actual banjo that they're playing, I think. Yeah. Or whether it's a real one or a synth 1.

Like the the writing of it is meant to feel like it, right? Right. So before this playthrough, Jeff, had you gotten to have you had you played it at all or was it just like the basics, first world, that kind of thing? I think it was more basics like the. Opening a couple. Hours. Well, yeah, well, I'd mentioned on the on our, on our episode when we did the N64 retrospective that Sarah and a friend of ours did an all day playthrough of Banjo Tooie,

right. That friend was the friend who had Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie. And so I played it at his house a few times, but just more of a like, oh, what's up with this? What's going on? Like, sure, you know, I'm goofing around a little bit while we're talking about other stuff.

And so like, yeah, I've probably clocked if I've done a full hour total of Banjo Kazooie before I started playing it for this, that would be a surprise to me. I will say, having now played 9:00-ish hours over a week and 9 hours in a day of Banjo Chewie, I strongly recommend the former. Because with a game. Like this, you get frustrated and mad at it and it's really good. Like Jeff saw me do this last night. I was like, you know what? Nope, we're walking away. We're putting it down.

We're going to pick it up again in an hour. I just now is not the time. That did not occur to me at 16. Yep sure. Playing this for 9 hours straight in my house, yeah. Would not recommend. I can't play anything for 9 hours straight anymore. I can't do that. Well, who has 9 hours straight? But well, even if I did it. My my stream time for Banjo Tooie I'm gonna be playing Banjo Kazooie this Friday. Banjo Tooie. Each play session was around 7 hours. OK, so.

Do what's your opinion? Do you agree with my it's better to play it a little bit at a time, or to sit down and play it all at once? It's hard to say because I'm at the point where I have both games pretty much entirely memorized, so it's just me navigating through it. Like I never get stuck. I never get, I never honestly miss notes, which could happen on Friday. I don't know, it's been a minute. I. Think we're gonna be loud now? Yeah, I said this was that job. Yeah.

How? Could you do that now only? Worry about Rusty Bucket Bay maybe? Yeah. I feel like that's the only level that I'm like, but the rest now I'm inclined to. I don't know. I'm inclined to agree with Sarah. I think that like as someone who played it over 2 weeks, because I got the controller and knew we were going to do this now and so I had the runway far ahead. Like I played a couple hours every night and it was actually kind of really fun because it's a game that doesn't have

dialogue and long cut scenes. And like a lot of that, I would sit on my couch playing it while my spouse Sarah would be on Horizon iPad or on her phone watching something or doing something, and then our dog would be cuddling with us on the couch. And it was a pretty chill way to play a game. Whereas other games that I'm playing that are more bombastic or have a lot of dialogue or cutscenes. It's kind of hard for us all to hang out in the same room without all wearing headphones.

But this and there were sometimes I would still wear headphones, but it was easier to exist in the same space because of kind of how much lower key and old school it was. And that was kind of nice. And that also allowed me to kind of take my time and chill. But if I had to play this within a handful of days, I probably wouldn't have finished it. But because I was just slowly doing it, there wasn't any new game at the time that I was like like urgently wanting to play.

I think I'd started the new Assassin's Creed at that time and I was enjoying it, but I wasn't so enraptured by it that I was like, OK, I can put it off for a little while. I'll play this game and also like I got the rush of nostalgia that I didn't think I was going to get because again, I think I rented this. I definitely didn't own it. I owned Goldeneye, I owned DK64I and I owned Mario 64.

I think this one, I mean, I owned a lot more games than that, but I think I just I never owned this one and I definitely didn't own TUI. I'm pretty convinced I never beat Chewie. I might have played it, and so I did. It's definitely on my docket to also play the sequel because I know it's the favorite of many, especially folks on this call. But. Does Chewie also have a fake ending? Because I might not have beaten it either. I know I never beaten it for sure I know I haven't.

Yeah, but I, I also have to say, like thinking on this, the that idea of spacing it out and I did put myself on a time crunch here. I mean, a sure sign of that kind of frustration and everything was finding Clanker's Cavern was just as much a frustration point for me. Where I'm like, I don't have the time for this. Where, where, where is it or what kind of thing?

Where is when? Honestly, I was reminded of this because Matt was saying like, you know, they don't have anything else at the moment that they're playing. I'm playing through blueprints right now. I'm also playing 9 doors, 9 persons, 9 hours, whichever order it is, 999 on my DS. Like I love my favorite game of last year was Animal. Well, I love games that let me explore that let me get into wherever it is and the textures of the N64 blown up to uselessness notwithstanding.

The fact of the matter is I love the idea of like a hub world where you kind of unlocking and going around. Give me that, give me that. I love that it's so good, but unlocking the unlocking a level in a completely different room than where it is and then having to find where that is in a very atypical design on a time crunch was so frustrating.

So this is another time. I will say that I think DK 64 had did it better in that I had a lot of fun unlocking things in the hub world there because you it's punishing some of it's hard and you get there and then you go into the level.

I think that Banjo Kazooie has this perfect mix of showing you just a little bit too much or like you'll find something and be like, this has got to be a level, but I don't know where the puzzle piece is. Or you'll immediately find the puzzle and put in the pieces and then be like, but where the hell is that? Could be anywhere, I have no idea. It's going to take me an hour to figure it out. And I think that that frustration is something we don't need.

Yeah, it's interesting. So. So we, I, I don't know, as of, as we're sitting here, I don't know which episode's coming out first. So just take this just we, we played Grunty's Revenge and Banjo pilots. We played the GBA games associated with Banjo Kazooie and Grunty's Revenge is essentially, you know, it's not the same game, but they are trying to recreate a 3D experience on the GBA in, in, in

some ways. And that does a similar thing where you turn in your Jiggies or your notes and then it goes and shows you, hey, you've opened up, you know, the door to the next World and, and almost the exact same way.

The difference with that one though is it's not as good of a game as this, but what it does right is maybe it's just because it's more 2D ish is that it literally the camera will follow you on the path that you should take to get like the fastest path to get to that next World. And it and it works because just like the N64, like Jeff, you were just mentioning some of the textures and stuff because they're doing so much with that game on the GBA. It is kind of hard sometimes to

tell. And they are also working with elevation which is hard to do on sort of a 2.5 D plane in that game that. Issues with perception on this one, the GBA 10. My God, yeah, if you think that it's hard to land a a a jump or something like, Oh my God, that game. Not that it's horrible, but it yeah. It's not a bad game. It's not a bad. Game, but they just can't it's just hard to do on on that hardware.

So anyways, in comparison, within the same franchise, they found a better way to do it, but I think that's almost just because it's 2D. Maybe is the reason why. But I do understand that that like just needing to go and search for this door like to get to the next World is fun to go through new parts of the hub world, but I I understand because it's like well, I just want to get to the next one like I'm interested what's what's the next World take me there I'm

having a good time. Why does it need to be a struggle? Well going through the hub world and taking a wrong turn also gives that metroidvania like thing of oh but what's that? You know, I found my first golden feather by overshooting the way to Clanker's Cavern and finding the piranhas and like, well, I'm, I don't care if it hurts me. I'm getting that I can survive one hit. I'll knock down this other guy and get my honeycomb back. That's fine.

Yeah. But like, that sort of thing isn't as big of a worry for me, I think. But no, I, I there is, there is a great joy and a great need of like, no, I got to get there. I got to do it. I got to whatever. So. Yeah, yeah. I I I could see it, yeah. I'll be honest with you, exploring in Banjo Kazooie, DK 64 and especially Banjo 2, E was probably 90% of my childhood and the other 10% being you know, school, family, church, like everything else like this, This is sleep yes Nope didn't matter

no, there is no sleep. I and every time I come back to these games, I just do the same thing. I was looking at my screen. It's really funny, I I played conquer too and Conquer was like 8 hours straight and I just beat the game in one sitting. Yeah. Every time I get into these games, I do that and I just love. I get enamoured and like thrown into this world. I just absolutely love the charm. The charm is off the charts.

That that's what keeps me going. Like if there is a frustrating moment, which as as a couple of you have said a couple times, like I, I get it, but I don't know. I like even the later stages that I know I only played a couple times growing up. At least, you know, a couple being 3 maybe, and I didn't remember them as well as those first few. I'm just like, you know what, I'm just charming the fuck out by these, by this. And it's the music that we've talked about.

It's, it's all the things that we've already talked about that sort of add up to that package that makes it just fun, even in the most frustrating moment. And I don't know, I just, I, I just love it. It may be it part it part of it's nostalgia, but also part of it is when you compare games like this to the general vibe and feel of what a lot of larger AAA games are now is that they're so dark, they're so serious. Like this is it's a different time. I get it.

It's it's over 25 years ago at this point, but at least we have this and it's accessible where it's NSO whether you find a physical copy or it's a ROM or whatever it is. These kinds of games, I think they they almost hit more and at times like this when we sort of need it. And like, you know, I was probably playing this game the most sleep deprived I've ever been in my entire life.

And that includes nights where I'd pull all nighters in college and university, you know, and I still was, was powering through playing Guitar Hero for 17 hours straight, probably with buddies. This I was, I was playing sleeping half an hour over the course of 24 hours. And still it kept me going. It was fun. It was, it's colorful, it's friendly, all the things we've been saying. And like, there's just frustrate me all you want, I still want to

be in it, you know? I mean, yeah, no, this this game came out in 1998 when there was a lot of attitude and. Edge, yes, the 90s as well. You're right, yeah. Yeah. And so the fact that this was a game that like, OK, let me throw in a comparison. Let's console war for a second. Let's do it. This was around the time I'm going to look up when Spyro the Dragon first came out because that is out of all the collectathons, I would say that is the closest, like same year, 1998. OK, cool.

Yep. Like that's the sort of thing where no one's stealing from each other's notes. They're reading the same notes. But that's just that's art. But The thing is, I love, I think I would say I prefer the controls and draw distance and you know, having a Spyro having things pop up on me and Banjo is an unfortunate artifact at the

N64. But The thing is, I get way more annoyed with all the like, saving all the Dragons and everything they have to say and how much it slows down and cinematics on it. It's very slow and this is snappy and this is as frustrating as it can get. And trust me, I have many more expletives to say about the

camera. Oh my God. Let's do it cuz, you know, you know what The thing is, the camera is part of all of these games, especially it is for the 64, like the 64 can do so well with its controller, like we've talked about and be the controller for the particular game and be really, you know, hard to emulate in any other way, modern or not. The camera is, is part of the gameplay. It just is. You have to manage it whether you like it or not, whether it

works for you or not. What what's up Jeff? What's what's up with the camera? I think, I think more than anything, if I had to pick a singular thing of like I can change this or I can yell at somebody and they can feel bad about it or whatever. I could go to their home and flip over all of their furniture. Like I don't wish I'll on them, but I just want weirdness for them regardless. You press the R button to move the camera directly behind Banjo. This is great.

This aligns you. This allows you to maybe push a little forward to you hold on to that, and you maneuver. There are so many areas where you're too close to a wall for it to do that. And so now you have to run towards the camera and you can be ambushed, or there can be, and all they have to do is remove the texture of the wall and put the camera behind it. But they are so insistent.

The amount of times that I have jumped somewhere, done a precarious platforming thing, done swimming, done whatever else. In my limited experience with this game, I've already had enough times where I have died, nearly died, failed, and had to start again over and over because something got in the way or wouldn't let me look forward. Everything else is details interesting. So yes. I want to hear your thoughts, Sarah. I want to hear your thoughts right now, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So I again, I I find being good at the camera part of being good at this kind of N64 collect a thon and I, I. Not even just the specific game, yeah. Yes, and the specific game too. On the Switch, I was using the the right stick to use the camera, which was a totally different experience. It wasn't centering it behind me, but it was the opposite of how I use twin sticks on modern games. So you're basically the camera and if you move it right, it it moves the camera to the right.

So kind of actually left, and to Jeff's point about playing other games, I'm playing Baldersgate right now. So we went to go play Baldersgate and I kept messing up the camera because I wasn't using twin sticks, I was using Banjo Kazooie logic. And I'm used to that kind of camera control. Like again, of course there's a bit of get good to it and it's I think the amount of I know where it's supposed to go and then it just goes. But I don't do that. OK, but why though?

I don't do that. There's I could just go over here and say no, no ball. Ball, I mean, I think part of it also for me like so I agree with everything Dave was saying about this being comfort food and I don't I didn't even play it as much as Dave did, but games like this, I think if they hit the right vibe, all of the other frustrations fall away, even if you are actively frustrated in the moment.

But the thing about the camera, I think specifically and why I understand why Jeff gets so frustrated is because Jeff has already said that he played more PlayStation games of this era than in 64 games. Whereas every game I played on this era in this era was in this N64. And this same stupid camera was in Donkey Kong 64 and Banjo Tooie and Mario 64 and and the Legend of Zelda games.

And so once you like, it's not like Jeff has to master this full stop because he hasn't played a ton of these kinds of like he's played them, but he didn't play them as much as we did. Whereas I I played Mario 64 more times than I can possibly count. And so I just know how to deal with this camera. Is it good? No, by no means, but I'm just used to it.

It's secondhand knowledge. It's muscle memory in the same way that I could probably play Corona trigger blindfolded at this point and still beat it. You know, it's just. Support doesn't frustrate me as much. Well, I I think part of that also is that Mario 64's layout is very is much more open than this game. The game has corners and walls much more than Mario does, right? You're going inside all the time in this, right? And the second you go inside. With with the camera cameras like.

Above you and then to the right. And and like, and to Jeff's point too, it's the the wall that's there is just always there on most of these games that they don't, they're not able to program that out is what it is. Right, whereas now it's like, Oh well, the camera turns and whips behind the character, OK, we're just going to eliminate it. They just if it's there, it's there. If they built that wall, that wall exists. That's it. That's what it is, right?

And and in some areas where it is a fixed camera, top down view, whatever. Like, of course, like we're in a specific kind of spot, like you can see the whole room, but it's a top down. Like getting the treasure in Captain Blubbo's ship going down there. OK, fine. A little frustrating, but I see what you're trying to do. Yeah, let me maneuver it and do that. Like, right. Those are specifics. That's great.

That's fine. It's interesting to me that you said you use the R button a lot to focus around banjo because I never do that. I think I very rarely did it too. I very. Rarely swimming or flying are the only applications I ever use the R button for anything. And that felt very PlayStation. Yeah, when you said that, when you said that I was like someone who plays, I was. Thinking that too. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. It's a. Controller logic, yeah. And I think also part of it is

like. So I recently played, although not so recently now Time is a Lake replayed Sonic Adventure, which is another game where people claim to hate the camera, but I I never had a problem with the camera and like the camera is bad in that game full stop. Like I love that game, but the. Camera is bad. It's worth the banjo. But like but a great but because I knew the game so well, again, it's I'm with Sonic Adventure like you are with Banjo.

You guys are with Banjo. I think once you know something so well, second nature, it just even inconveniences don't register as inconveniences. They probably still are. And I think that's what's really fascinating. And like I So for the record, on the record, I've never played any of the guess games and they're getting a remaster and so I'm excited to eventually play them. But I can imagine that depending on how well they've remapped or adjusted things like this happened to me with the Spy

Reignited trilogy. I liked it but I burned out after the first game because some of some of the things core to that game. It doesn't matter how pretty you make it look, it's still frustrating and annoying. Same with the the insane trilogy. Right. Like, I love the Crash Bandicoot games, I grew up playing them, but there was something about still running at the camera and like the timing of the jumps and like. I hate the running at the camera thing. I can't.

My mind has never been able to. I can't. I don't know. And so they designed. That for those are specific stages and they designed the challenge for that timing. But to your point about Spyro, in the Reignite trilogy, they actually put an accessibility feature for where the camera will auto follow you. And I only found this because I put my 7 year old nephew on that game and he just could not twin stick. And I was like, you know what Internet?

I wonder if we found a salute. Oh, I just go do do boop. Hey, see, see if you can play the game now, kiddo. Much better. Yeah. That's. Great, and that's great And so one of those things where I think some of some of the reason why I wanted to get the replica and 64 controllers because some of the control for me is less about how good the game controls and more about my muscle memory. That's clearly still existed. Because again, the friction points that Jeff hit, I

absolutely hit as well. And though I was able to save state my way through some of them, you cannot save state your way through the swim. You can, but it's like it's still not super helpful. Like for example, in Rusty Bucket Bay, there's a Jinjo that you are expected to get early because if he's your last, if he's the last one, you have to get out and you you so when you. Go back to get the puzzle piece.

Right. And so there are for those who may not know, in every stage there are 5 Jinjos. When you get the 5th Jinjo, the puzzle piece, the jiggy shoots up from that Jinjo and you grab it. This jingo is underwater under a get through a hole in the gate and you lose air in this oily water faster. And so they pressure like in the guides pressure you to not leave him last because then you'll have to get the jiggy.

Also. I had to save state inch by inch my way through that to get it because I just couldn't go like I couldn't get it. That's was so I was so mad doing it. I was cursing the whole time. The minute I was done with it, it was like my mind was wiped. Like I just because of how how I feel about this game and the, the, the vibe of the game, I just couldn't stay angry. Yeah, yeah, Now it's as as a visual thing.

What we're watching on video right now honestly is actually right about where I am in the game. I literally just picked up that jiggy nice. But that kind of narrow winding path maneuvering, not a problem. Love that. And even with a single stick and with the amount of sensitivity that the stick has, like if you're trying to aim specifically shooting eggs, good luck. There is like a little a little. I've completely overshot. What are their?

Sensical directions and I'm in a different world. And I'm in a different world kind of thing like that, that those are the little like that can't just be Jeff, you don't know N64. But there are absolutely no but. And to everyone's point, like everyone else on this call, I have the least amount of nostalgic muscle memory to this. Sure. Like I have played through quirky 3D worlds. I have played through, I have played through the growing pains of three-dimensional

platforming. And these are just specifics to rare and to the N64. For sure, totally. Jiggy, you have so much love for this franchise and stuff like is there something in like, I know Tui is like your game, like Tui is the one that that's like that's your favorite of all time. What's the thing that stands out like to like in this particular game? Is there something different about this to Tui that's like, oh, not that it does it better, but that you feel like there's

something more like not more. I don't know. I don't I'm trying to find the word. I'm exhausted. I'll, I'll tell you, I know what you're saying. Like significant, that sets it apart. Sets it apart from the other like is there something? It's a lot more balanced.

I think the thing about Banjo Kazooie that separates it over 2 E is the fact that every move you have in Kazooie has a definitive point to it. There is a specific reason you have that move and you can use it and it utilizes it throughout the game like fairly well. Whereas in Tui you get a bunch of different moves like fire eggs, like use fire eggs for like a specific switch and then you don't really need to use

fire eggs anymore. It's cool you have it, but it's just they just tacked on a lot of different things. There's some moves that are like great additions, but I felt like Kazooie is just much more balanced. It's also much more condensed as far as like collecting. It's more collect a thon focus than Banjo Tui is and I I don't know that I necessarily like that more or less. I'd like them both but they are quite different gameplay wise and gameplay wise I just prefer TUI.

I think it does a lot of things that it's just smoother gameplay wise like swimming. I I doubt Jeff would have an issue with swimming in Banjo Tui as opposed to Banjo Kazooie. After what I've learned in Kazooie. Well, it's. After, but it's different. It it's much smoother, it's much more responsive.

It feels a lot better than Kazooie where it's like you have, so just an example, you have the B button, you press the B button and you use Kazooie's wings and you do like a wide, you know, whatever you're like effectively you're widespread. Like stroke? The big stroke, you're kind, you're doing. And then yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you hold, you hold the A and you do like a little doggy paddle sort of a thing or a little bare paddle, I guess.

In Banja tree, in the, in the bear, you hold both buttons together and you can do them at the same time and it makes you faster and the control is much more precise. It, it basically negates collecting Jinjos and anything underwater. It makes it so much easier there. In fact, there's an entire underwater level and they get rid of oxygen in that level. So it's like all your Greg. I hate underwater levels. I hate them. I absolutely despise them.

Banjo Tooie has the only underwater level in the history of gaming that I actually enjoy. This is. Legitimately and I cannot wait to see it. Yes. And 64 collect a thon has to have a punishing water level. It's like the rule. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I will say that game and and this included, you go underwater and the music is great. It's great. Every game. Every game just sort of has like that cool cave vibe, if that's even the right, you know what,

like there's just, it's that. Space Caverns of Mystery. Yeah, I want to weigh in on that difference between this and Banjo Chewie thing real quick too. I I really think it's about the moves like what you were saying, Jiggy, but like the cadence in which you get them in this is so rewarding because you beat a level, you've just figured out a thing and then there's two new, there's three new moves to get and two new moves to get. And it keeps it interesting for

those first couple of levels. But also not like, oh, man, am I going to have to win? I've learned so many because what is by the 4th level, you have all of them.

Yeah. And then it's figuring out how to use those in creative ways to find jiggies that aren't broadcast to. You they do a great job with the anti peace kind of idea of in each of these worlds, giving you the 2-3 whatever moves and then like, well, I'm gonna try that out and they give it to you like it's you get ample time to play. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say it culminates in the in the boss fight too.

The final boss fight utilizes all of your moves at some point in the battle and Banjo Atui really doesn't in fact, we actually use moves differently sort of that that we have, which is actually that happened in DK 64 as well.

Yes, it did. When you get to the key roll fight, you use the moves in such a creative way and it was just because someone, I think it was someone from the banjo team came in like help them make that boss fight and dipped and didn't like wasn't involved in any other part of the game, but just was like, Oh yeah, I hope you make this K rule boss fight made it. It was like amazing the the way you use the moves so creative, so different. And it's like the rest of the

game. You never use those moves like that and it's so sad because it is awesome. I don't think Tui's quite as extreme as DK 64 in that aspect, but you do use different moves in different ways at the end. Whereas Kazooie, you're using it straight up how you would use it in the levels you're progressing. You're just getting better at using them. And then the final boss fight just culminates in Test your Skills and it gives you if you get 100% of it.

Or I guess you don't technically have to get 100% of everything, but get almost everything and you can get a health bonus to assist. Nice. And some and some item bonuses actually too, so. Yeah, I think I got those and I was and I was only 5 notes away. So you don't have to get everything. I'm sure it was even just close. Less than that, yeah. That's pretty. Close. Speaking of item bonuses, we haven't talked about Cheeto at all yet. That's oh. Yeah, Cheeto. OK, let me say this.

I have spent hours upon hours looking at Cheeto's model trying to decipher the runic language on his page. I know that's extra, but I it means nothing. OK, I just want to say that out loud here. I have like put it in like I've looked up several different runic languages I've tried. It means nothing. It's gibberish. OK, damn, really? I feel. Like you should write well, are you the right person to write a cipher to figure out what it

could mean? Well, I'm definitely putting in more time than probably anyone else on the planet, so I'm willing to bet. Anyone's the expert? Yeah, but yeah, sorry. Why? Why I brought up Cheeto is I was a kid who wasn't allowed to have a game shark. My parents thought it was going to like break the game or something. I don't really know. I never had cheat codes, I never had things like that. But this was the first game I ever had a thing in the game that told me what it kind of

thought was. Cheating that. Broke the game in a cool way. I was like, whoa, what do you mean go enter red feathers on this thing and I get more. Wow. Yes. Yeah. I was also the person that never had guides, never had game short like nothing like I just it doesn't it doesn't I I don't know that that I I need it because I played this game so much, but I do love the idea that it's there it's fantastic yeah I. Really. Did did you guys do stop and swap? No I didn't do stop and swap.

No one has done stop and swap like ever. No, I think I. I'm aware of it. I've. Never. Oh my gosh let me close my door. My dog is like freaking out. This is a stop and swap. It's the greatest gaming mystery of all time. OK, the. Feature that never fully was. Yes, the feature that never fully was and they sort of like utilized it on the Xbox version. So essentially what Rare wanted to do was get this feature.

They they always planned on making a sequel to Banjo Kazooie and they also wanted this interconnectivity between all their like 3D platformer games. The DK 64 was a part of that. Basically the N64 RAM could retain 20 seconds of memory after you yank out the cartridge.

So their intention was you set it up, you go through this menu, you initialize it, RIP out the cartridge, put another game cartridge in and you could get items from like Banjo Kazooie into DK 64, Banjo Tooie into Banjo Kazooie. Like you could do this like reverse connectivity thing. Sounds amazing, right? Nintendo sounds. Like it did not work ever. Nintendo was like hell no, that's not going to work, especially after like the first

generation of N64. They did revisions on the console and that RAM time that they were relying on shot down to like 4 seconds or something and they're like this is going to cause people to break their consoles. Please don't please don't do this OK, so it just lived in this thing like Oh yeah, that was an idea and the game after you 100% it teases you about stop and swap and it shows like a little video, which is that what you're watching right now I'm. Just watching someone trying to

do it I think is what I find. Mumbo has like photographs and they play little videos showing these giant eggs with the question marks on them. And like little kid me, it was just like, yeah, I had to hold it for that long and went Fast forward in time. So it's like nothing happened. Nothing became of that. People like got into the code of the game, figured out that there were passcodes that you enter in the sandcastle that can unlock the stop and swap sections or

segments. So essentially they expand a small portion of the world, like different levels, different levels. So they expand the world and you can go in and you, it gets this fan, this epic fanfare of music. Well, that's not real. What is this? That's not true. I don't know what you're watching, right? Now I don't know. It's just stop and swap. I don't know. History stop, swap. It's telling you.

Yeah, that would be amazing. But you get this epic fanfare and then you can go collect the big eggs and you can collect the big ice key that's in Waz's cave in Freeze, Easy peak. There's like a little section behind the Jinjo where you can see this key spinning. That's the only thing you can actually like physically see in the game without without knowing. And you're just like, what's that key? So you can collect it And then you get a menu that says stop and swap and it shows all the

eggs and the key. And so you just have to enter the codes in the in the sandcastle. So if you like, you need to get 100% and then you need to do it. That's the mark of getting like true Banjo 100%. And then Chewy, since that idea was just totally botched, they're just like, OK, we're just going to like incorporate these mystery eggs in a different way. And so you can like collect a few of them and you get like special moves and power ups and stuff, which is cool.

But the Kazooie like mythos of stop and swap is epic and it just keeps growing over time because they keep finding more games that were like, oh, I was going to implement it in. So DK 64 had like a vending machine originally in DKS tree house where it'd be like it has the banjo Kazooie like Sprite held icon on it and you could like I I don't know what you could do with it, but it'd be epic. It's so cool to find that stuff and rarely was.

Very much about that. Kind of like putting Easter eggs, and in this case literally between their games. So the schoolyard rumor of it all, Like screw mew under the truck. This. Oh that. I was wondering how you got back there. This thing? Yeah. Yeah. It's the only thing you actually can't get to. That's what. Yeah, you're right. That's right. I forgot about that.

It's funny too, like I the first time I encountered naughty the the the Beaver and like had to go into his house to get I was like, oh, it's the same one from the Donkey Kong Country games like. I just. I love that those characters have crossover and that like I was sad that the squirrel you encounter is not conquer, but I understand why. But like, but there's a vibe, right? He overeats, he's goofy, right?

Like there's still a vibe, but like like the fact that there were specific characters from Donkey Kong in this game too. Like I just I love that they hint at that. But you can find little things in Goldeneye or Perfect Dark that relate to other games. Like I love that they have that connected universe. I think it it's one of the strength. I'm pretty sure even in Sea of Thieves, like there are little nods to stuff. Yes. And still like yeah, cool.

I just, I love. Like there's nods to this game because of the you know they have a literally a pirate themed world and right like I can't remember what it is specifically. But you guys ever watched watch It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? Oh yeah, sure. There's a there's a meme of Charlie like doing the whole like red line and it's like that. So I did that with mapping the

rear universe. If you've never seen my video, it's just me going through all the games, like finding all these Easter eggs in like connectivity between them. Yeah, it, it took a long time. This is epic. It's some. Of my favorite stuff in gaming, like connected universes, like it's why I love the Alan Wake games and control and the remedy. Like my God, I just I love when games acknowledge. I like when things acknowledge other things.

It's really simple. But like, even as big of a deal as it was when like in Avengers when Iron Man says to Hawkeye clench up Legolas, like Legolas exists. In this world, right reference. Right reference. They said the thing like I genuinely do love that.

And I think like my it was a little very early instilled in me with the crossover here from all the rare titles and like the fact that they still do it. And if they ever do make a banjo three or something else or whatever, like they will honor what came before, right. They did it in like a very tongue in cheek way with nuts and bolts and it was very like fan antagonistic a little bit, but like they were fresh

frustrated at that point, right. And like I think they you always will find the spirit of rare in their games, good, bad or indifferent. And I really do love that that they really do put everything that they are as a studio and what came before into each next thing.

Yeah, and I think that's part of the reason why people miss this era and these games, and not just because they're well made games, but there's just that extra bit of, you know, love that is very easy but very easily recognizable in their games. Whether it is something that's like perfect dark, which is more serious and literally darker and, you know, it's a shooter, there's still personality in there that you don't you don't quite get.

And even other games in this era, there's something about what Rare has put together that just works. And I that that is what what this particular game and, and, and Tui as well, but I played that a far less, but that's what this particular game has always been for me is that personality and vibe and why I have that music on in the house at least once a week. Like those things.

Yes, it's nostalgia. You know, Matt, you mentioned that more than a few times and it's, it absolutely all part of why we even sit and talk about these shows in general and these games in general. Our podcast is like, you know, you just you just want to be in that space again. You want to be in that feeling again and that vibe and that time and every aspect of this game screams that to me.

It it's it's picking up the little gold feathers that we just saw the little little chime that it plays. It's it's Kazooie doing the the ground pounds. It's just, it's the voices like we were talking about. I, I'll, I'll sit and listen to them talk no problem. But no text. That's fine. I'm good with that. And you know, the, the whole like interconnectivity in a game like Banjo, I feel like Banjo is a good starting point for that sure, because it's so family

friendly. It's so like every kid played it. And because of Banjo, because of the references I saw, and to another, probably even a larger extent, Diddy Kong Racing, because that kind of extends into Banjo and Conquer. I immediately wanted to play those other titles because of that. So this introduced like going into Banjo Tooie. Oh, what's that poster on the wall? Jet Force Gemini? That looks scary to me. Maybe I should try it someday, you know?

And it did, but it expands, it helps expand their own universe and their audience like simultaneously, which is super cool to me. Yeah, we're a studio that has design sensibilities that work throughout. And yeah, there's been plenty of genres that I got my in through I franchise a series of studio that I really liked that they carried those design ideas into everything they did. So it's like, yeah, sure, I'll try this, beat them up.

I'll try this horror game, I'll try this certain kind of puzzle game, whatever it is. And yeah, Rare, definitely, especially in the N64 era that that was them. Fun fact if you look at this bottles picture it does puzzle challenges but when you first do it he actually refers to you as barrel boy and he says OK barrel boy or some or or Kazooie refers to it as barrel boy and seemingly it was supposed to originally be a Donkey Kong picture frame. That would be. Disappointing.

It's horribly disappointing that it's bottles now, but yeah, whatever. Or. Like or like a picture of the whole DK crew sort of together. Like even if you had like the intro or something, it would have been awesome. Yeah, that'd. Be cool. Like they're all friends. I was like watching these chop and swap eggs. I'm like, those are all spots. I was like there should be something. Here, yes, and there it. Is like my mind. Is absolutely blown y'all.

Yes, I do also want to quickly comment on Dave's nostalgia. So as of when we're recording this, just yesterday they shadow dropped an Oblivion remaster. It's they remade Oblivion, one of my favorite Elder Scrolls games. And while it's not super related to this per SE, to the nostalgia side, like I got into a minor social media TIF because I made a meme about ignoring Claire obscure Expedition 33 for Oblivion because like, this is a game I grew up playing that I

love and it caught some heat. There was a misunderstanding. It's cool now, it's fine. But what's funny to me is like, it was a joke because it was a joke, but it's a joke because it's praying on my nostalgia. I booted up Oblivion last night and got through the sewers and played that first area.

There is no way to explain how nostalgia is a warm blanket when you're playing it unless you're experiencing it, and that's what I had with Banjo Kazooie. Also, replaying Oblivion last night, I only played like an hour or an hour and a half, but it like, it like energized me in a way that I can't even explain because it just felt, I just felt warm. I felt like I was home in a way that only certain games can do. It's whenever I boot up the Mass Effect trilogy, I get the same

thing, right? You remember all the thing, like all of the moments of your life that you played this game if you've played it many times. And I think that's what you can't really translate from Banjo Kazooie unless you feel it right, because it's one of those kinds of games. And like, while I get why people were like, oh, but this is the re release of a giant studio that's been screwing up lately and this new, you know, this new RPG from a small French studio,

It's a big deal. You shouldn't ignore it. And I totally agree with all that. I think Bethesda has been screwing up left and right. And like, I don't want to reward them for their behavior, but they also did a pretty great remake of a game I loved and I wanted to play it. It was nothing against Clara Obscura. I'm still going to buy that game. I love turn based RPGs and I love modern takes on turn based RPGs and I'm excited to see how they do it. It was literally a joke.

Praying on my own nostalgia and this this, this indescribable feeling of returning to something you love and it immediately feeling right in a way that new games may give you a new experience that also can feel as great, but it's a different kind of great. It's not the same thing, right? I Super Mario RPG is a game I returned to in times of tragedy. Just is when I got laid off from a job, I played through it. When I lost a family member, I played through it, right?

I replayed it recently and because I had all those memories tied to it when I replayed, when I played the remake for the first time, it was like I was replaying the classic because I'm just so tied to that music, that experience, those moments.

And so like, I think that's what Banjo Kazooie carries more and I'd be curious to play Banjo Tooie now because I'm definitely less familiar with that game, if it'll transitively give me that feeling because it's the same characters, it's the same style, or if it'll be a whole different kind of experience. But I that's what I love most about revisiting it and blasting through it in two weeks and like getting every jiggy and getting every note and getting those power ups and beating the game.

By the way, screw that boss fight. I hate that boss fight against Rentilda. It is such a pain in the ass but. With save states it was nothing. Yes, correct. Wait till you play the GBA one. Wait till you play the GBA one. If you do, it is oh. We're gonna. We're gonna. Yeah, they they, they try to do the same thing. And it is. Yeah. If you don't think this one works, oh boy. I went in and I I played some of Kirko mods. Oh yeah.

And I did the Jiggies of Time and I played through that on stream and essentially the Gruntilde fight is the same, except for some reason it's sort of broken and a little glitchy sometimes. So what kept happening happening to me was I would get through all the phases and I'd get to the point where you have to like shoot the eggs into the Jinjo statues to some of the Jinjinator. And if they just, they wouldn't go in, like I'd be sitting there

like shooting the eggs. And I died like 20 times. But you know, I don't quit and I don't run and I will be Hokage. So that's how I approach it. You will be. I I believe that. Believe it. My my question now goes to to to Jeff, are you are you going to continue? How hard do you think you might get or? I I told you I've got it paused, that's if I was done with that I'd have turned it off and said

good riddance. I did say I. Released Clanker. Let us never speak of this again, because that was how I felt in the moment. But fair nails. But I also want to take some time to actually play the game in a way where I can learn these ways of moving around, where I can give it that time. And I want to see if I still feel the same. I'll report back. Also watching this footage right now. I've been thinking it the whole

time. You can't tell me that those mumbo skulls don't look like handsome Squidward from a distance. They do. They do, absolutely, without a doubt. Wow, now that you say that, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Again, without the benefit of nostalgia. And I definitely have those, like weird Polygon things for my youth where I go. What did I think that was? Yeah.

I. Didn't, I didn't understand Kate Sith's profile picture or his, you know, whatever in Fantasy 7 until like a few years ago, Like I didn't get your ankle right kind of thing. So this I have no nostalgia. So they look at it, I go, is that handsome Squidward? Camping is that. Is that? Oh no, he's hot. Oh wow, that.

Sounded just like a good. Job that was excellent is but before we before we all go to bed, I feel like we have to hear a little bit from Kazooie and what Kazooie thinks of our thoughts on the game. I don't know if I don't know if Kazooie's around at all anywhere. Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that insight. Yeah, that's good to know. Well, there you go, everybody. We had Kazooie with. Us, you didn't have to curse that much, but you know she's what she says. You know, it's it's, it's OK.

She's. Not under contract anymore. I remember, I remember when I found Kazooie. Kazooie was a girl. I was like, whoa, yeah, there's like, no, there's no like I was. Like whoa, I really felt. Woke. I How 90. 1998. I told a nine year old that has played through a couple of Metroid games that Samus was female and how it's sort of revealed and things like that. And he was just like, just look like what someone with a weapon is a woman? Like that's basically what the look was.

I was like. Oh my God, My nephew plays Smash Bros and he played a Samus. And I was like, I was like, yeah, Samus is a girl. He's like, no. Well, and on the flip side, our nephew is convinced that Tails is a girl. I mean, I can fair. Yeah, I get it. Very hard. I mean boys, so too. Tails kind of has a has a voice in some like newer yeah content I guess, whereas for. Us and each tales is literally voiced by a woman in but. It's not to be a child, That's right.

Yeah. It's meant to be a child, right? Right. That's funny. Bart Simpson was also a woman, yeah. Exactly this is. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I have to tell how I got my Banjo cartridge really quick just because it's it's legendary. As a kid, the PS2 I think had just come out OK and I had played Banjo Kazooie at my friends, but I didn't own it. My friend got his PS2 and they wanted they wanted money and we were just like too young and too stupid to know like understand money.

And so he told me he would sell me his Banjo Kazooie cartridge and I asked him how much and he said a dollar. And so I went over and I gave him a dollar and he gave me this cartridge. And you have it to this day. I actually don't. I do have a cartridge. It's in the back, but I had to reacquire it. That's a sad story, but it was funny.

His name was Dante. Shout out to Dante, and he had it in big like Sharpie on it. Dante was one of those, so I just had this big cartridge that said someone else's name on it. It was awesome. But the video playing reminded me before we wrap up, I do have to say that I love the transformations in this game. They none of them are not they are all adorable. I don't know why I was going with no with double negatives, but like the bumblebee, the alligator, the all of them they're.

I love the alligator. I love the alligator, Yeah. I would sounds you. Know he's the best one cuz he can. I love that. Little mini game. Yes, mini games fun too. Yeah, sorry, Jeff. We're just seeing more of them. Yeah, I was like, I haven't seen all of them, but I have no misses yet and I'm looking forward to seeing more. Yeah, they, they, they just find fun ways to implement them,

right? Like, you know, it's, it's just another way to add some variety to a game that already has, in my opinion, a decent amount of that right. Again, something else they tried to do in Grunty's Revenge and they do a little bit different with it, but and they take ideas from Tui as well, but I don't know the, the, the slight and jiggy we're talking about a little bit.

The slightly more simple approach to this game is a very welcoming part of it too, that if you want to start with a game similar to this or in this genre, it's either this or Donkey Kong, I would say. But maybe even this one, cause 'cause I think it starts less overwhelming than what Donkey Kong 64 starts with and and continues to be and, and maybe it's not quite as long, but I don't know, that's just my from my experience playing the two somewhat close together.

Doesn't say doesn't mean one's better than the other, but I. Don't know, I did Donkey Kong first. I I feel like that's I don't know. I appreciated Banjo more because it was like Donkey Kong, which it would probably just be the reverse. I don't know. Yeah. But I it definitely made me like Tui more because I played Donkey Kong 1st and I I if I had to rank them I would actually go

Tui DK Kazooie just personally. OK, yeah, I would say I I think that Donkey Kong is a more accessible starting place because of what I said at the beginning about it telegraphing where you need to go and what you need to. Do that's that's. In a more real way, whereas this game you learn what the language of it is and where things can be hidden. But I I think it's harder to figure out as a kid on your first play. Through with as a kid as stupid. There's no way.

Only as a kid though, definitely. Made a few years. Definitely not. Definitely has nothing to do with the the now, yeah. Lateral movement. I do also like that this game, the transformations like many times you had to go outside the stage transformed because that breaks video game logic. At this point in time. Right. Like you would never think like I can only use the power up in the stage I. Mean, but the way this he walks, I love it. He's like, I love this.

Little waddle like a Corky. Yeah, basically. It is a Corky. Little bumble butt I think this. Game broke a lot of like expectations we had built based on game design and let you like kind of see outside the wall a little bit in a way that many more games would do after this. And, and I think it was kind of a pioneer in that way too. Yeah, and and early 3D, you know, is, is awkward. This generation is awkward. It is say it all the time.

And, and I think Matt, maybe Jeff, you guys, you know, you both of you mentioned it earlier, but like to to pull off a great game during such an awkward time and not have the game feel awkward is success in itself. I think. Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect. But I mean, if you you pull that off and it's and it's, it's impressive, I think. And that's this, that's Donkey Kong. That's a number of games that we've mentioned over the last little while, so. I think it should be said to

like. Going back to this, it holds up pretty well even even graphically like. Yeah, yeah. It just the charm is still there, the gameplay's solid. Like regardless, I think everyone has to kind of acknowledge that Banjo did way more right than it did wrong, regardless of how you feel about it. It's. What it did wrong will haunt me, but I agree. Yeah, I mean, it's what we said in the N64 episode, right?

The the polygons that were stylized and cartoony will hold up way longer than anything that was quote UN quote real. Jeff and I on sister podcast Flashback 64 played Goldeneye for it, and as much as I love that game, it holds up terribly. It looks awful because they were going for realism, this game. And and yes, the Switch is doing a little bit of Zhujing, but not very much. It still looks great because it's cartoony, it's blocky, it's very precise in its design.

Whereas games that were meant to look real quote UN quote at this time have aged like sour milk. Yeah, that that's me currently playing through Perfect Dark where it came out a few years after this. It's trying to do a lot more than Goldeneye does. But to me, so far in the first half of the game that I've gotten to, I was like, this is extra muddy and extra dark because of what they are doing with it and has the expansion pack and they're trying to do even more. And it's like doing more.

Maybe wasn't what it needed, but I I know there's there's more to it than just simply like, hey, this is a texture. But this still, whether it came out the same year as perfect dark or golden eye or whether it it didn't, you're right that that stylized approach works. The the it's called cartoony. Call it whatever you want to call it, It just works. Even Mario 64 works like that because they're not trying to be

real people. And then we get to make fun of that in Mario Odyssey when we see the Mario next to the real people in that one city where you can take over real people with your hat, which was a problem in my opinion, but it's OK. It's so weird. And you know, I think this also shows rares evolution on the console because graphically, if you look at Mario, OK, so let's say first 3D platformer on the 64 and that's what it's known

for. So let's compare Apples to apples Mario. He's he's segmented, right? It's it's cylinder, cylinder circle, essentially Banjo's not like that. Banjo's connected. It all stretches and it's animated, it pops, it expands, it's it's way more cartoony. And you know, as you progressed through that, I think they just got better and better at it. One could argue Conquer probably looks the best.

Though I could also argue 2E2E looks the best because it does support widescreen, so suck it. Oh, does it? Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it does indeed. That's awesome. That's I didn't know. That it's the first game I played where I was like, Oh my gosh, my shadow looks like my shadow. That was the. That was it. That was a big moment for me. I've said that so many times, but it's so true. Yeah, perfectly. I had that that option and the options I was like, whoa, this

can be white. I was like, yeah, I don't remember that at the time because hell no, I didn't have anything that was white screen when that was there was a kid that. Had white. Screen. Yeah, exactly. I didn't have Internet. I don't know. What this is? But I know I want it. Yeah, we didn't have Internet until I was. In high school, like we had, we had red and green diodes. No blue. What? What, you think we're Rockefellers and they loved it?

I I lived a a sheltered life everyone not really I was I was OK they also. Remember being a kid being like, What's the difference between mono and stereo I. Was. Like I probably want mono. That sounds cooler. I thought the same thing, for what it's worth. So I so I think I said this on a different Funny Games episode, but the way I learned the difference between mono and stereo and everything else.

So the first I might have known beforehand, but the definitive was a game called Shipwreckers on the PS1 that the options menu full of character game's not great, but full of character. It's a pirate game. And so the options menu, the sound was a crow's nest. And so Mana was one pirate, Stereo was 2 pirates, Dolby was three pirates. And they would each say R when they got in there.

And so on top of each other, so Dolby, they actually sounded like crowded because one of them was getting knocked out of it. So just like R like sounds like that's awesome. That's a great, great way to do it. Yeah, that's. That's a great way to do it that would have made so much more sense. Exactly. It's unequivocal. And they say video games don't teach us anything that is. Flat out lie. No, my parents. My parents are wrong. Video games are great.

It's not a phase. I learned something from video games. OK, Yeah, it's. Definitely not a phase though. I'll have to tell them that tomorrow when I see them. It's still not a phase, it's. Still not a phase. Still not a phase. Mom still not a phase. Mom, Joe, I do still play games. Deal with it. Yes, my son will also play games. Deal with it. Whether whether he likes it or not, he's playing games. OK, everybody, let's let's get some rest. Thank you very much everyone for being here.

Fun and games, podcasts out there. Matt, Jeff, Sarah, where can everybody find that fantastic work that you continue to do? Sure. Go ahead, Jeff. Well, Fun and games can be found as part of the certain POV network or you could go to funandgamespod.com to find all of our episodes. We are fun and games pod across the social media that we're on, which is Blue Sky, Instagram and Tumblr.

Technically, we are if you are interested in what we do, we are a conversation and interview video game podcast with an optimistic view of gaming from the idea that every game is somebody's favorite and no one can play anyone. No one can play every game that's out there. So I loved us to share our experiences and we have a series called Side Quests with different hosts talking about the game they love and why they love it.

Different hosts every episode. You can find me and my opinions on things across those same social media platforms at Jeff Makes Noise. Jeff, Geoff. For me, you can find me at djstormagdon.com for the stuff I do outside of fun and games. I also have a podcast called Reignite, which is currently playing through the Dragon Age series. We debuted as a Mass Effect podcast, playing through the Mass Effect series.

All through the lens of playing as these characters that you create and making choices as if we would make them. And more importantly, especially in Mass Effect, which aliens we would kiss because those are the most important questions to answer. We are currently playing through Dragon Age 2 as a recording and really enjoying revisiting that game and you can find that as well. I host that with the incredible Frankie Bradley Lestrange.

If you want to hear my thoughts and memes on the Internet, best place is Blue Sky. I'm DJ stormageddon.com on Blue Sky as well. You can also e-mail all three of us at our first names at funnygamespod.com. Fancy URL, fun stuff. And yeah, that's the best place to interact with me online. And you can find me at Sarah Moon and on Blue Sky. Nice. You can also find my voice acting stuff on jeffmona.com. Hey there we. Go. It's good stuff. You want to check it out.

I mean, yeah, Jeff was able to hook us. Up. We're going to. Take Zoe. So yeah, it's true. That's just. That's just 'cause I like birds. I. Said that's just networking. Really, that's just networking really. I was going to say it, it was, it was actually Kazooie. More like nest working. Damn it, I wish I could just leave it there, but. But I guess I got to ask Jiggy what he's up to. Jiggy, how's it going man?

I guess. Oh, it's going, you know, dropping things left and right, sometimes to lots of fan wear fanfare and sometimes to little fanfare. Just depends. Just I just dropped a super cool video about Super Smash Brothers Melee going through every single stage and looking for secrets and kind of moving around with a free Cam tool. It's pretty cool street. I'm actually going to be streaming Banjo Kazooie myself.

This episode's going to be airing like after that's done, because I imagine I'm going to be, I imagine I'm going to attempt to beat this in one sitting. Maybe I'll break it into two depending on how I'm feeling. But I, I got a couple Celsius stacked up in the fridge. I'm like, you know what? Let's let's make it a good night. Let's do it. I. I just learned what a Celsius was a couple days ago. I had no idea. You're so old. Yes, yes I am. I'm so sheltered in the last. I don't.

I don't want to stop my drink, those I don't feel as bad. Bowl or something, I don't feel as bad so especially the green tea ones I trick myself into thinking that's healthy. Of course, of course. It's all, it's all healthy. It's all carbonated in a can. It's healthy. That's, that's yes, as long as it tastes healthy, it must be. That's it. I should say that I am doing Mambo May, so I'm gonna be doing a lot of rare content coming up. Nice, nice. So.

And just for the record. Add this to it. There you go, just another just. Another wait. This is part of it. This is part of it. You just didn't know it. I didn't know it at the time, no. Honored to be part of Mumbo Bay. Same same. I celebrate it every year. Oh, that's even May. I didn't. Sign up for this. There's a there's a picture in the discord for you guys, it's great. Oh, I saw it. It's haunted. Yeah, why would you curse us with this knowledge? Why? Well, I was supposed to go to

sleep. Jiggy. What the damn it? Nightmares. Forever. You got to stay up a little bit because it's switch pre-order night. Yeah, I know it's it's only a little. I'm a sucker and I'll get it eventually, but I but. Now's you're almost there. Now's not the time. No, it's. Not just got to know, it's not, it's just a matter of could you get the pre-order if you wanted to like don't aren't you curious to find out? You got. To know you, got to know you.

Got to know. What am I going to do with it? I just brag about it. It's breaking rights. But I got it and I gave it to someone else and I didn't take it like. I mean, yeah. Sell. Sell it to a friend for a dollar. Yeah, that's the obvious answer. The best story ever. Your friend will love you forever. You'll be forever that person that they talk about randomly on a podcast like 20 years later. And that's really why we do anything in this world. 100%

yeah. And and I know this is usually said as like a joke, but like in this economy, so you know, that's so that's tricky. Look back on YouTube and of course, remember 64 right across social media, which is just pretty much blue sky and and Instagram and every once in a while on Tiktok, if I decide to remember that I have it and post silly videos and shorts. So there as well. And of course, I remember 64 show is where you'll find everything and also on YouTube, so you can find the video

version of this some gameplay. Sometimes I'll put up those silly videos also on YouTube and I stream every once in a while. So keep an eye on social media for when, because unlike Jiggy, I do not have the energy or the Celsius or the time to be able to do it on a regular schedule. So every once in a while I'll pick an evening and say, hey, it's 8:00 PM, it's 9:00 PM, I'm going to play Perfect Dark, I'm going to play Banjo, whatever it might be. So keep an eye on that.

And of course, patreon.com/remember 64 show and get all the episodes early, this one included, and the follow up, which will also have the other Banjo Kazooie GBA games as well. So really good discussion on those as well and some extra content. So check that out, but that's pretty much it. Everyone, thank you for coming with us this far on this journey. Getting to 64 and being able to just talk about this game and this series of games feels great.

I'm happy that I randomly decided to do this on some January evening and said, you know what, I'm gonna see if I can do anything with the the N64 and, and here we are so great people to do it with great games to play and more to come. So thank you very much everyone for joining us and thank you for having us. Of of course, it's honestly could not have had a better crew to put this together, so thank you very much. You know what the best thing

about this is? Yes. No, this is this is level 64. We're going through Banjo. We still have so many heavy hitters to go through. I know, I know. I mean, we, we've, we've put out so many. Like I, I'm trying to think I always forget what, what that game was. What is the game where you're running around? It's like GTA3 body harvest. Body harvest, yeah. We put out like Body Harvest, you know, but it's like you haven't even talked about Ocarina of Time yet.

Nope. Like we talked about so many games. It feels like so long, and now we're on 64 and we get to Banjo. Yeah. It's like we talked about so many games before Banjo, which is like one of the most popular games. This is awesome. There's there's so much to play in so much stuff that me specifically, I never played because I had the typical games. So there's a lot to explore and still more more to play in. Shogi pretty soon.

Yeah, that's right. We we have and we're gonna be playing some some mods and stuff. That's part of the plan for this game specifically. So keep an eye on that. But yeah. Stay tuned and rate the podcast. Rate the podcast There it is. Jiggy remembers Jiggy. Remembers sometimes. Yeah. Oh, and then that like subscribe thing, people do that too, right? So. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. OK, everyone, thank you very much for listening and watching.

We'll see you next time on Remember 64. Remember 64 is part of the Super Pod podcast network. Oh yeah. We are teamed up with a whole bunch of awesome people that some you may have heard on remember 64 already, but there's a bunch of different great gaming shows anywhere from fine time to bar silence to retro wild lands. You can of course find the Super Pod Saga on there. Press B to cancel all of these

awesome shows. That's we're just here to talk about great times with games, share their thoughts with you, our experiences with you. Check us out Superpod Network on your podcast app of choice and superpodnetwork.com where you can find all our shows, blog posts, videos and more.