Hello everyone, you are listening to the regenerative by design podcast where we will be getting to the root of health, climate, economics and food. I am your host, Joanie Kenmore. Join me on this journey as we explore the stories of individuals and organizations who are working to realign our food system with both human health and the health of our planet. Okay, hello, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us
for another session of regenerative by design. I'm really pleased to have Craig Anderson joining us today from dryland genetics. Good morning, Craig. Good morning. Yeah, I'm really thrilled that you could make the time. I've gotten to know Craig over the last couple of years, because he is doing a lot of pioneering work in his role as CEO at DryLin, genetics
and Ames, Iowa. And Craig, I'm excited for you to tell our audience a little bit about your background for one and how you came to be working in the millets genetic and breeding space. For those of you who are out there in the audience, and you're not familiar with how important seed in genetics is in the world of food. You're going to learn a lot today from Craig,
as he's really working at the leading edge of this. And as we look at our whole global food system, and we start to realize that we want to bring, you know reawakened crops into our modern food system, a huge piece of the puzzle that we often fail to talk about is genetics, and breeding, and how we select the
perfect millets. For the modern situation. We're in today's. So, Craig, if you want to get us started a little bit, and just tell us a little about your background, because you actually have a fantastic background before you came to be working in the field of millets. Sure, first of all, I pleasure to be with you today. And you know, I think back on on kind of growing up, I grew up in agriculture. So I grew up in a farm in southeast Minnesota, and
have really spent my entire life in agriculture. And after graduating from college, I went to work for a seed company. And I spent the next 32 years working with that seed company, mostly in the in the corn and soybean space, and really had the opportunity to watch crops, crop breeding genetics, and some of the things that we were able to help growers with, really changed the way crops were grown and the expectation of how they can withstand, you know, difficult environments, whether
it's drought or heavy insect pressure. And so I did that for 32 years and, and then was looking for something new, a new challenge to kind of take on and, and in October of 2021, the opportunity to go to work for dryland genetics came up dryland genetics was a proso, millet breeding company that had been formed in in 2014, I'll tell you just a little bit of that story.
Because because it's a really neat story. And then in October of 2021, they were looking to take the venture to the next level and go commercial with it. And so they, they, they brought me on to basically develop a seed organization, a seed structure that could could take their breeding program to the next level. And so that's what I did. When I think about dryland genetics, you know, and I wasn't really familiar with proso
millet to be completely honest. And I guess I'd said birds in the past so that was one of the big uses for proso millet and but but actually getting to know the story was pretty cool because the co founders are a father son team. They're both professors patch novel at Iowa State. And, and his son James at University of Nebraska. And they're both PhDs in plant genetics and breeding. And so they bring just a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience to the whole idea of
plant breeding. And, and so, the idea for breeding with personal millet actually started with an experiment James was doing, and he was looking at several different crops in a greenhouse. And when the study was done, they basically just abandoned it
and laughed. And about a month later, 40 days later, he came back to the greenhouse and there was one of the plants that just didn't quit, it hadn't been watered, it hadn't had any, you know, fertility or anything at it and there it was producing grain producing, you know, just a really nice plant and that was white proso millet and, and so that's kind of how dryland genetics got started as an idea. But the basics behind it was really about working with water efficiency in in agriculture,
grain crop systems. Both Pat and James. Were really passionate about that topic, because of the struggle that we can see in the US with you know, what, what is water available? The ability look like for for, you know, agriculture today, clearly agriculture is one of the biggest consumers of water. And and so we're going to in a water efficient crop was really important to them. And so when I look at proso millet and say why
would you want to focus on that crop? So one of the things is, it's the most water efficient crops being grown in the US, it literally can produce a bushel of grain on half the water that's required to produce a bushel of corn. And it also does that with very low fertility requirements, when you think about added NP and K or are, you know, just the fertility likes to grow grain. So it's an extremely good crop to grow from
that aspect. And then the second reason that personal millet makes such a great crop to be working with is it's an extremely nutritious grade. And so whether it's gluten free characteristics, we like the fact that it's a ancient grain non GMO, but it's also just a really healthy grain. And I know, you know, Johnny, you're really familiar with that aspect
of cross millet. So I'd like to, you know, we can visit more about that, but, but that's why we got started with the craft in the very beginning.
I love it, because those are so many, those are the reasons that I became what people love to tease me and call me the millet cheerleader, or even the millet pimp sometimes, which I kind of have to chuckle because it's kind of inappropriate, but funny, just the same, because you're always like trying to solicit this new crop that people haven't really heard of, and that they don't have a lot of familiarity with it. And if
they do, it's usually because of poultry or bird feed. And so, you know, when when you start people down this path, usually their first warm up is like, oh, it tastes good, B, it's good for
me. D there's this huge climate story behind it. And you know, when I started to unpack the deep layers of the climate impact and the resiliency around millet as a crop, that's when I became like, convicted in the fact that not only was it good for us and tastes great, etc. But we have to as a society embrace crops like proso millet, that can produce food in the face of extreme, you know, adversity from either like climate extremes, like what doctors naval experienced. I've
seen that was firsthand. Um, and back in 2021, I believe we had a heat dome, I think it was 2021 or 2022. And I was already involved with a lot of millet projects. But that particular year in the Pacific Northwest, we had this extreme weather event where it was like 115 117 degrees, like the surface level temperatures were like over 150 degrees, like it was crazy. And one of the farmers that I work with who is on a regenerative transition pathway, so he's bringing in different, you know,
diversity of crops. And proso millet was on his agenda that year, he had harvested his wheat. And so there was a lot of great stubble there. And he went in with a grain drill. And he drilled that person millet right into that stubble. Well, you know, two weeks of no rain, and then the heat dome later, we just assumed there's no way that that person millet will ever sprout or do anything. It never had a drop of rain, extreme
heat, I mean catastrophic heat. And what do you know that October, we were out there harvesting that proso millet, and it was stunted. I mean, it wasn't the most beautiful high yielding proso millet, but it did it it actually was able to germinate. We attribute that to the wicking of the moisture at night just from the humidity. And we're in a dry part of the world. So there's not a lot of humidity, but the wicking of the wheat straw was able to be just enough to get that proso millet
to germinate and to grow. And for me, that was a turning point when it came to advocacy for proso millet as a crop. Because seeing that firsthand that it had been completely given up on. It hadn't been I don't think it had any fertilizer. I don't think anything was done to it. It literally was kind of given up on and we still were managed to have a pretty decent, decent
yield given the circumstances. And you know, but that opened up my eyes to all these other things that are needed to develop this crop and commercialize it for modern agricultural settings. You know, as we know, millet has extreme diversity of genetics around the world, but it's more like landrace varietals, you know, they're they're kind of hidden in little nooks and crannies around the world where this is
still commonly consumed. And I know that Dr. snapeval did do a global assessment of what they called germ plasm of prosa millet to get this started, and if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about that. I think that's so fascinating. It's almost like gathering the genetic history and lore of a forgotten crop, which is kind Have any adventure? Yeah,
sure. That's, you know, so one of the things about any seed company is really kind of its its future success will always be based on the kind of the depth and breadth of his germplasm pool that has available to work with weather, whatever crop that would be in. And could you can you define germplasm for our listeners who are not as familiar with how breeding works just a little quick crash course is basically the parental seed of whatever variety or crop
you're talking about whether that's corn, soybeans, proso, millet, vegetables, like tomatoes, watermelon germ plasm is just the the actual basic parental material that's being used to produce new varieties or, you know, grow grow hybrid production. And so what the Snoballs were able to do was actually go out and source white proso millet all over the world. And they came up with about 720 distinct different germ plasm
pools to work with through that effort. All of those amazing germ plasm pools had freedom to operate, meaning we were able to use that in our breeding program without any restriction. And so then they basically looked at at a genetic sequencing model that actually let them understand the different diversity of those pools of, of white proso millet and and what we found was, to your point, everything was a little bit geographically tight.
So if it came from a certain area, the diversity was actually very narrow. So for example, the US germplasm approach or millet was a very narrow germplasm pool, what we were able to do is immediately start making crosses between those pools of germ plasm that really blew up the diversity of proto millet and just made a foundation for what dryland genetics has to work
with going forward. And then I'll talk a little bit about some of our targets today, because we move beyond the important aspect of agronomic performance and yield performance in breeding new varieties. And now we're looking at more specific and use market application to our program. So that were actually better than or better fit for their for their use. Okay, I'm gonna just give a little quick synopsis of that for our listeners, because what you just said, could be easily
missed. And it's very, very profound, because one of the reasons why I was immediately so excited when I heard about the work of dryland genetics is the is shifting that paradigm away from our food system and our ag system being solely focused on just, you know, bigger is better Supersize Me like, you know, it's all about the yield. Instead, you guys are also focused on you know, usability yield is always an important
part of the puzzle. But we need to be breeding for climate resiliency and nutrition as as things that are of equal importance, and that is actually something that is very foundationally different than what has been driving our more agronomic system the last 50 years like post Great Green Revolution. And especially when you're dealing with a plant that doesn't require or respond to really high fertilizer dosing.
And you know, that that's also a really critical piece of the puzzle that we've been directing a lot of our breeding breeding programs for varieties that the more nitrogen you dump on them, the bigger and fatter they get. And now in this situation, we're looking at germ plasm, and genetics that have that resiliency where you're breeding for more nuanced things that are important for health and planet. So thank you, I just wanted to give a little wrap up there for our listeners. Oh,
that's fantastic. You know, so So when I think about proso millet as a grain crop, we actually think about okay, it's good for crop rotation. In the US it's good because it's water efficiency, it's good because it uses a very limited amount of
resourcing in fertilizers and whatnot to grow the crop. So what makes him great green crop but then if you shift to say, you know, why is post homolytic great grain that really gets exciting because that's the aspect that I believe has been overlooked for a long time in the US there's other countries around the world that use postal millet as a food as a feed and have you know for a long time but when I think about personal
millet as a grain I really think about first its use in food. And why do I think that that's exciting is is if you look at the nutritional value of prozone Millet being gluten free okay, that already covers a lot of people who are looking for something very specific in in grain as as a you know, a food source. And then you go to it's low glycemic and very new nutrient rich characteristics, you know, it just brings in so much value as a food ingredient that I think the US will
continue to see growth of millet as it's used in food. Then if you look at opportunity that exists today, it's mostly wild bird seed or premium pet food. But university studies that have been done recently have shown that it's extremely effective as as a replacement for corn in both hog and poultry ration, we're actually seeing the benefit of switching out the, you know, the corn in poultry rations, and actually getting
better performance. And now what we're looking into is, are we actually getting more nutritious and products, whether that's an egg, or whether it's a chicken breast. So we're continuing our work with universities to actually support those studies that can validate, you know, the use of that as a as a feed in the ration. That is such an important topic right now, because it has really been long, undervalued, especially when you're looking
at the end quality and nutrient density of an egg. Not all eggs are created equal, is what we're finding. And if we can find that a change in the feed in poultry creates a better nutrient dense and product. That's that is when the consumers will start to
respond and support these kinds of changes. And then there's always this upside that, you know, when you really kind of calculate out some of the math switching away from a heavy irrigation commodity food to something like proso millet, where you're dramatically reducing your water footprint. Now it starts to make the conversation around animal food,
less climate impactful. Um, you know, when it comes to water, and when it comes to a lot of other things that that tend to be really hot topics in today's, you know, food climate intersection conversations. So I really love that you guys are taking a deep dive into that to better understand that. Yeah, we've got we've got several projects that are ongoing with with universities, but then we're also starting to
work with the industry. And it's exciting to hear and note that there's actually a level of interest, whether that be group groups like you know, the Hormel Giniel group, or even the big groups like Tyson, that there are people in those organizations that are interested in what I would call the reality of that story. Meaning it's both a climate friendly way to produce grain to feed animals. But it's also a very nutritious feed, that can actually have, you know, a big
impact in a big outcome. So it's nice to see actually some energy behind that. And, you know, we're supportive of, of any of those initiatives that can expand the use and let people see the value, of course, absolutely.
And you know, one of the things that I think is of note when we're discussing a crop like pro Samila, is that it's not necessarily competing with like another cash crop for acreage, a lot of the time, the farmers that I work with are using proso millet either as a rescue crop when the first crop has failed,
and they have a shorter, Hotter, Drier season gap to fill. Or they use it in our neck of the woods out here in the Pacific Northwest to eliminate summer fallow, which is historically a time that the ground is just tilled and left bare, to blow away and run away and degrade. And we know that with regenerative agricultural principles, we always want to
have the ground covered with a living route. So it really plays a vital role in filling some of those gap times in our more legacy agricultural systems, that we can sneak in a really short growing season crop like proso millet, that doesn't need all the irrigation and all the fertilizer and can actually be grown in areas that have been deemed not really great for agriculture anymore, and maybe at threat for desertification.
You look at like the Southwest along the Colorado, where there's been dramatic impacts to access to water rights and for irrigation. And a lot of times that we hear from farmers will have you know, we're throwing in the towel because we can't grow anything because we don't have access to the irrigation we need
for our alfalfa or whatever else. I invite those farmers to start thinking about growing these climate resilient crops that that need a fraction of the water and fertilizer so they can still keep that arable land productive and not let it go towards a desert of fight abandoned status. I'd love to hear your thoughts on on for sure that I mean, that's one of the key reasons why, you know, we're looking at expanding the what I would call the recognized use of personal Melendez as a feed ingredient.
You know, we believe that as water issues become more intense that it will become more difficult to raise corn in some of the areas that are raising Corn today. And to your point what what's a crop that could actually come in and help these guys still find a really economical way to farm ground? You know, the neat thing about corn is, is it is so much more resilient than it was 20 years ago. And that's through breeding progress, and just some of the tools that we use around
production management. But there's still a mathematical formula of how much water it takes to grow a bushel of corn, that that math doesn't change. And when you look at a craft that can actually do that same bushel of grain on half the water requirement, that's a significant step change, I mean, that's something that will make a difference in water
utilization, and still allow for production of grain. So I think, I think that, that, you know, proving that this is a good direction, and benefiting both the farmer, the producer of grain, and the end user that you know, the person feeding livestock or feeding people or feeding, you know, pets, that that this is a great combination. And it's and it really is a win win for the environment and the people as
well. So, you know, we're pretty excited about our breeding program is making progress we were talking about, you know, that it's not just about agronomic seed yield anymore, it will always be about economics and yield. But we've been able to go beyond that and start thinking about end use value. So whether that's just uniform maturation, one of the things that farmers are up against growing proso millet is that the way the crop matures, by the time the whole seed head is
mature, it's subject to shattering. And so then you can have lost grain that isn't harvestable. Well, through breeding, we can actually work on changing the dynamics, the physiology of how that grain head matures, so that the farmer can actually straight cut the variety and save all of the grain versus worrying about shatter. And so that's what was the big deal for ways Yeah, we're working on that for,
really to benefit farmers. But then there's other things like, are waxy varieties are easy to be hauling varieties are large seeded varieties, that all have specific value end for end
users. And, for example, just easy to hauling, if we can limit the amount of waste and lost during the healing process by 25 to 30%, because of the new varieties, that makes a significant value to the whole food chain, when we're bringing D hauled millet into whether it's flour or whether it's used as you know, just old mill it for food
absolutely brings the cost down a lot to the consumer. Because you know, ultimately, when you're buying millet on the market today, you know, you you are paying for some of that loss during the inefficiencies of the processing. And so all of these initiatives help us get pro simulate to a point where it really is more appropriate and scalable in modern food systems,
which is so important. I love that you guys have have worked on the easy to D haul aspects of it because I know when I first started talking to Dr. Sable Schnabel at UVA University of Nebraska Lincoln, I was like That is such a big deal. For those of us on the food side, I really begged for you guys to make that a huge focus, because we just see it as like a barrier
to commercialization. And now that with the OMD G grant that back of us foods and zego foods received to get what we're calling civic launched collaborative integrated value chain, we're going to have a millet the hauler at that facility next year so we can start actually really working these new varieties that you guys are developing and bringing them through the value chain so we can start evaluating them for better and quality use when it comes to either cooking them as
a rice substitute or flowering them millets really represent like the wild west right now like there's so much exploration and there's so much creative work that is needed to to hone it in to the refinement that say wheat and rice and and other commodities enjoy because they've had decades of people really discerning the details. So it's an exciting it's an exciting place to work. Yeah, and
I'd see some of that is actually needed in the industry. Yes to bring millets alongside some of the other food grains that are already available whether it be rice, you think about you know people eating starch grains like rice potatoes, noodles. If you haven't tried millet, you should find a source and try proso millet as a rice replacement for example. I think it just makes a
really neat interesting flavor difference for a meal. Yeah. And and it's actually one of my big hopes in the next year or so is that we'll start to see posts on millet on a grocery shelf, whether it's Kroger or or Costco or any of the big chains, just like you'd see cane water rights. Today you can find some millet flour and some some other things of millet occasionally you can find millet at at Whole Foods and some some of the other
health food stores. But yeah, I would like to see Muller readily available to everyone as a choice, consumer choice. And then as people try it, I mean, I've been amazed at how many friends and family have tried millet and said, Oh, my gosh, I didn't know what we were missing it. We had never even thought of it. Yeah. And so I hear that a lot, too, from people. And honestly, like, where I'm also very excited to see more millet, and it's happening with conversations that we're developing on the
snack of a side is to get it in front of chefs. And so that way, chefs can start serving it to people because you look at like what happened with quinoa. And I remember buying quinoa in the early 90s and cooking with it. And it was back when you had to soak it because it saw the saponins I mean, there were a lot of barriers to the bringing bringing popularity to Kinlaw. But they managed to do it. And it's really fascinating. Sergio Nunez, the arco who's a friend of mine, and, and lends a lot of
efforts and wisdom to the snatch of this initiative. We'll have him on the show here soon. He is really one of the godfathers of the modern clean water movement. He's Bolivian and he really wrote that entire wave and really understands what is needed to popularize the new green in modern markets. And we do know that chefs and getting those influential chefs, working with these new greens, that's how they drive the awareness in consumers. Because they're like, Oh, I've seen that in the store.
But I was scared to try it. I didn't really know what to do with it. And I didn't know how it tasted. But then they go out to dinner. And what do you know, somebody serves a millet to Bulli? Or, you know, maybe even just blends, millet was rice instead of just plain rice. Definitely, their mind is open and their palate is open to a new experience. And then they're more apt to go home and try it themselves. Yeah, I was kind of surprised. It took me as long as it did to
ever really tried millet. Now there's there's millet in Kind bars and some of the other help like the 12, grain breads, a lot of those will use millet. But but our family now eats millet on a regular basis as literally as a rice substitute. Or like you mentioned, you make a rice millet combination meal. And it's extremely well. But yeah, it's actually really delightful. I mean, when kids come over, they're a little scared, because it doesn't look just plain
white. But you know, honestly, what we hear from even kids here in North Idaho, which not to pick on my local community, but not always is adventurous with like eating choices. So like, you know, it's just a little it's, we don't have the ethnic diversity here that drives discovery of a lot of new ingredients. And so, you know, we'll get these kids that come over, and they're scared to death at first, and then they try it and then they love it. And then they come back and ask
for it again. So I'm always happy that they're getting a little more nutrition because I tell you, when you look at pro Samila, against white polished rice, commodity white polished rice, it's night and day. And that's how we're going to really debunk this whole anti carb movement that's taken over the mass media in the last 20 years. We're just eating the wrong carbs. I mean, we're eating highly refined carbohydrate sources that have really had a lot of their nutritional values
scraped away. And they've been bred for carbohydrates, not for nutritional integrity. And no wonder people are shunning carbs, which is really a tragedy, I really feel strongly about reclaiming our carbohydrate staple sector, and just demanding that it delivers nutrition again. And that's, again, you know, I mentioned earlier on that, when used as a food, I think, I think that nutrient rich density of cocoa
millet will continue to add value as a food source. And then you know, whether it's low glycemic or gluten free, I mean, that's helping some people out that really need something different than the norm. And so again, I I fully expect we'll see proto millet become a bigger staple in the food ingredients
space. Absolutely, if we can, if we can have a bit of success, we'll see it become used, again as a feed source in both maybe hog and poultry rations, really giving growers the opportunity to think about a crop rotation strategy that adds something new
into the mix for him. And part of the benefit of our breeding program is that we can actually start to now geographically expand where ProSolo is and has been grown in the US because it was really grown in the High Plains due to its water efficiency for the most part, but varieties were actually developed for that geographic area. And so because of the kind of the depth of our, our, our breeding pool, we're actually
able to go south go west to go north. and really look at proso millet working specifically with new varieties in new in new geographies, which I think is also going to be necessary to expand the supply chain model approach. Absolutely, yeah. Because as, as the discovery, you know, starts
to happen. And we are having conversations with some really fantastic medically tailored meals companies, and institutional food service because they're interested in things that, you know, can substitute for rice with a better nutritional profile and more favorable glycemic index, that's going to trigger demand. And right now, that's what our
farmers need. Because the last couple of years, we've had a surge of interest from farmers wanting to plant and grow proso millet, we had last year's UN year of millets, at the UN FAO. But we still don't have that market poll established. And that's a place where I'm very focused on working to develop is
getting that millet in front of people. So we can start to ignite that demand cycle that will help support the farmers that are growing prosa millet, rather than having them be stuck with millet at the end of season and not having a a way to move it to market or a stable contract in place that gives
them any sort of protection around their pricing. I know that you've dealt with a lot of that, to me, that's still one of the fun things about about building out this dryland genetics story is, is really the fact that, you know, while we're a breeding company, producing new varieties for seed, we're extremely involved and very passionate about helping to develop the end use markets, and then really think about the supply chain model that's going to have to change to make the story successful.
Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts in the middle there that, you know, honestly, you just don't even know are there until you're trying to navigate through it. I was so surprised. A few years back when I first started getting involved in farmer connected supply chains, that we had all this fantastic millet and we're the closest place to get it hauled was 1000s
of miles away. So when you did the math on trucking it halfway across the continent, paying to process it and shipping it all the way back, suddenly, you're paying for a very expensive commodity, not because of the cost of the commodity, but literally just the trucking to get it moved through the value chain. So it's been a real focus of ours, the last few years just to really catalyze that, you know, fixing the bottlenecks in
processing. But you know, again, it's it's all they all have to move at the same time, all the pieces of the puzzle, have to move at the same time. And then all the while had this consumer communication and education piece that's happening. So are you guys that dryland genetics working with, like any influencers out there in the market, that are like helping to educate the public about how cool Mila is? So you know, right now, to be fair, a lot of our effort is actually
spent also on the fuel side. So we're looking at being used as an ethanol feedstock, and really, for a couple of key reasons. One is it has a carbon intensity score that is significantly better than that of corn, especially corn grown, grown under irrigation. And then secondly, just the very nature of of its fiber content versus corn, it's got to add added value in the in this space that we believe will become big and
sustainable aviation fuel. And so we're actually doing some a lot of work right now in the public relations side of things with, with the government to make sure that that millet isn't forgotten when this whole new 45 Z comes along. And we're looking at, you know, what, you know, what crops qualify for programs under the sustainable fuels act? Yeah, that being said, that we're also still very engaged with people on the on the food
and feed side. And really, what we're trying to do is, is just give people the opportunity to do some trialing to do some things that can prove the value. And that's where we can we can be kind of partners in long in the process. And so, so we've been trying to be really supportive in in that space with with both food companies and with with poultry producers and feed companies and then supporting the academic side of research trials being done.
Over the next I'm glad you brought up this. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the sustainable aviation fuel piece because it is actually a really big deal right now, for those of you who aren't following those conversations. It's a hot topic right now. And the carbon intensity scores are I mean, that's the name of the game right now Thank you for bringing that up. Again, you know, that can be a subject where people are on either side of the fence on a hard way about, you know, using grain as
a fuel source. Yeah, but one of the things that I get excited about is, the more realistically sustainable, you make that whole process, the better the model is. And while otherwise, I was supportive of it being in the corn industry, most of my career, I'm really excited about millet having an opportunity to at least play in that space. One of the things that would be very beneficial is that would help mature out the supply chain.
Because one of the things that ethanol will do is always go to the lowest practical feedstock that they can produce ethanol from. And so that can help even out the the highs and lows of what's been the millet market and consume a lot of rain in times of overproduction, but still be supportive when when, you know when things are in a different spot. But But yeah, I mean, dryland genetics is is a breeding company. But we're much more focused on how do we use the product we're working on in
breeding? How can we actually make it a more reliable and sustainable product in the in the food and feed space, you really have to look at the whole system. When you're bringing a reawakened crop to market at scale. It's impossible to solely focus on one of the use cases for it, because that is the reality of, of agriculture. I mean, it's it's rare that you have just one thing grown for one part of the plant. I mean, there's just so many diverse uses, you have Grade A Grade B,
that naturally because not every crop turns out perfect. What do you do with the imperfect harvest. And that's where animal feed and things like a, you know, sustainable fuel initiatives can play a vital role in just making sure that we don't have waste on the market that doesn't have an end use. And I have always been a little skeptical about corn and sustainable ethanol production just because of the water
intensity and the fertilizer intensity of corn. It just didn't necessarily always add up to me when when looked through a true cost accounting perspective. So I'm just so happy to hear, you know, sorghum gets involved in these conversations a lot. And I work with sorghum and sorghum, a geneticist and agronomist, as well. And it's just neat to see this whole interconnected conversation really take hold
and grow. So I'm really great. You know, one last thing, Craig, that I would love for you, just to clarify with our audience, might not, I frequently find that people are not super clear about the difference between classic plant breeding and
genetic modification. And, you know, one of the conversations that comes up a lot with people in my world, is that, you know, when we when we have huge germplasm reserves of new genetics to explore, we could spend a lifetime just working there without ever needing artificial genetic modification. But when people hear the word plant breeding, they often their mind immediately goes to like CRISPR technology. So could you could you just add a little bit into a conversation about your
philosophy at dryland genetics on on plant breeding? So one, you know, to be very clear, dryland genetics isn't doing anything with genetically modifying personal milk. And so there's, there's really, when you think about, you know, the answer to your question there. There's what we all have been, you know, heard of in the past of GMOs. So basically, that's a
genetically modified organism. For the most part, I think there was maybe 15 different crops that have been genetically modified that way, but for the most part that was actually being done to confer insect tolerance, or herbicide tolerance into the plant. There's, there's been a few other modifications, but that's primarily what what was used in creating genetically modified organisms. There's a newer technology I would call gene editing, that really uses very
specific tools to make gene edit changes. It's not modifying it by adding in anything that wasn't there. But it's using a very specific scientific process to edit the, the general of the plant. What we do at dryland genetics is classical breeding, but we're using the modern science of sequencing so we actually understand the populations that we're breeding with. So, so that those three things are basically traditional
plant breeding. You have the very new modern science of gene editing, which isn't it's basically What I would call Super Science breeding, traditionally, you're using some very specific tools. And you're making some very unique edits to the plant. But it's not that different than what happens in traditional plant breeding, when you're letting mother nature do those edits, and then select it for the genetic modification was something different, because that was adding something that
the plant didn't already have naturally. Yeah, and so to me, that's kind of the three differences there, I'm not advocating for anyone being bad or anyone being really good.
Other than I think, the more scientific we are in our approach to plant breeding is, the more we'll be able to draw out of plants, and keeping the what I would call the healthy profiles or, or the value added things that things like millet have today, we'll be able to keep those intact, because we'll understand what we've actually done with our, with our breeding in advance.
Yeah, and it's such a hot topic that gets very polarizing. And I think right now, it's really exciting to work with companies that are using classic plant breeding, but leaning into science to help expedite the process. So that because we don't have a lot of time to wait when you really look at like temperature trends that are happening globally, and how that impacts our ability to grow crops to feed the world and feed
our livestock and whatnot. So time is of the essence, I wouldn't want you guys to take 25 years to develop a viable seed crop. So I love that you guys are leaning into like, you know, just good, good sound science to help accelerate that, but without the you know, like, like actually, like actually doing anything invasive, like, you know, classic GMO type things because that just gets into a lot of murky ground. For a lot of people. It is a hot topic, I tend to kind of, I have
my own personal beliefs about it. But I love when I find people who are really doing high quality scientific breeding. And but still using nature's toolbox. It's really great at scale. So good job, you guys. It's it's really, it's really fun to watch everything that you are all doing. And as someone who's a millet, innovator, and really developing those markets, your work is critical to all of our success. So I just want to thank you for joining us. And we'll go ahead and wrap it up.
You know, and I know that this has been a jam packed session full of all kinds of great information. So for those of you who are listening, if you want to reach out to Craig Anderson at DryLin, genetics, I know that he's on LinkedIn and responsive there and, and whatnot. So we can put his information in the show notes. So you can learn more about DryLin genetics and about Craig's work and the work of both Dr. Staples and the things that they're doing to help advance climate resilient
agriculture. So thanks so much for joining us, Greg. It's been lovely. Thank you. Pleasure to be with you today. This episode of the regenerative by design podcast is brought to you by snack diverse nation, elevating climate smart crops and regenerative supply chains through innovative products and transparent market development.
Funding for Regenerative by design podcast was made possible by a grant cooperative agreement from the US Department of Agriculture Agricultural Marketing Service, its contents are solely the responsibility of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official views of the USDA. Thank you for joining me on the regenerative by design podcast. Please take a moment to review our channel on your favorite
podcasting service. And share this session with your friends and colleagues via LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or wherever you connect with your community.