RedHaunted x I Could Murder A Podcast | #423

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Hello. Hello. I'm Sruti. And I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handled Halloween Special Part 2 2025 Finale Edition with Freddie Mercury and Elvis. Hey. Hello. Hello, hello, hello. It's so good to see you both. You too. Thank you so much for joining us today in this very interesting spot that we are in. We are in Sam Drake's House of Magic in Kennington, South London.

Very interesting place. I nearly dropped Nemo there. Very interesting place. But before we get to that and everything else we're doing today, do you guys want to please introduce yourselves? We are I Could Murder a Podcast. Excellent.

By the way. Thank you so much. It was all we had. It was all we had. It was all I had. That's better sometimes. Yeah, that's better. We're a true crime podcast. We're a little bit of a baby in comparison, but we're still finding our way in the world. Yeah, we just wanted to say, you know, happy Halloween. tricky time of uh year but this is a real treat to be here today so thank you so much i like that thank you

And I was like, tricky time. I'm really embarrassed that I took so long to get there. You know what it was? We went down to go to the toilet before we came on. I realised in this costume, which is an Elvis costume, not Superman.

The magician said he looks like Superman and he said it's a shit costume. It is a shit Superman costume. Fucking shit. But good Elvis. Yes, but I realised I couldn't take it all off. I had to take it all off to go to the toilet and then I thought Halloween, trick, treat, boom.

Let's go and film. Welcome to the world of jumpsuits. It's not fun. Little pockets. No pockets. And just very unflattering. That's not true. You look wonderful. You're so kind. Thank you so much. But yeah, thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us today. Your outfit's quite self-explanatory.

anything you want do you want to tell us a little about the little little freddy it's just a coincidence my little freddy little freddy there is a little freddy down here we were just looking down yeah it's i just growing up i love freddy mercury um i used to get my mum to buy the little fake mustaches

when I was little because I liked him so much. And when I grew up I wanted to have a hairy chest. And that was all I wanted. Well, mission accomplished. Thank you so much. Congratulations. But yeah, that's the only real reason for Freddy. But Elvis? Yeah, we went through a few other costumes for me just to go alongside Freddie. And I was just going to come in an orange jumpsuit, but then...

the fodder that that would open me up to. Oh yeah. What I've been accused of, what I've gotten away with, what I've been charged with. We'll go through that later. Oh, I thought you were going to be, cause everyone would be like. It's not funny to laugh at somebody being sent to prison. Oh, yeah, and there was a moral element to it as well. I was also, Austin Powers was in the running, but I also thought, I googled it.

He's offensive to some crowds. So I played it safe with Elvis. I think he's quite problematic as well. Bit of a nonce. Yeah. Oh, there are stories. Did you bring Priscilla in when she was quiet? Hannah? Well, I have been waiting 10 years for this moment. It's fantastic. Thank you. Well done. I cannot express to you in words how happy this will make my mum.

Because she, every year, she will text me and be like, well, when are you going to do Dala for Halloween? And she sent me all of the links. So everyone thinks I've made a massive amount of effort, but actually I've just been waiting for this moment. Costume hoard. And now I've done it. So now I can die happy. It is great. I'm going to put Nemo on the floor. Good costumes all around, I think. I have gone a bit more abstract. I have gone with this.

Because I didn't want to be a total stick in the mud and not do it at all. So I went with my biggest fear, which is a toilet snake. So it's basically the idea of sitting on a toilet and a snake coming out of the U-bend. and biting you, biting me on the vagina. That's my biggest fear. And then I saw recently a video of a man in Thailand and it happened to him. But it bit him on the balls. And it wouldn't let go. So, I don't know.

Actually, why was anyone filming him while he was on the toilet? Yeah, that's true. It's curious. Oh, he wasn't filming it himself. It was third person. Now I think about it. Have you heard about that fish that if you wee into the Amazon water, it goes up the screen? Have I?

Yeah, that's scary. But I don't know what that looks like in a costume for Halloween. No, that is... A piss fish. Great fish. It's because it reminds me of that scene from 90 Day Fiancé. I don't know if anyone else has watched it. Oh, I love it.

Paul, where he goes to the Amazon. Yes. To meet Kyrene. And he wears a condom to get into the water because he's scared the fish is going to swim up his penis. Oh, I love that show so much. That's not what we're here to talk about. Introductions made. Shall we have a little drink?

That's actually... It's not bad. It's not as disgusting as you think. You get the kick of the Red Bull and then you get the wine. Exactly. Best of both worlds. Turbo. We thought it'd be fun. Well, you know, four true crime podcasters are hanging out together. To do some bait AMA. And for the Americans that means obvious. And maybe people younger than us. I think bait is the word that we use the most that very specifically indicates how old we are and where we're from. Yes.

Probably. I say sweet. As in like, oh, for good and cool. And I feel that's very uncool to say now. Where did you guys grow up? Cambridge. Oh. That's why I say sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, who wants to kick off with the first? Bait question. What's our usual typical ones? It's the... Well... We've learned just before we started filming where your stance is on curly fries and on that subject, usually quite a typical one is what would your death row meal be? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

I feel like this changes a lot for me. What's my death row? What's your death row now? A bucket of barbecue fried chicken from barbecue fried chicken in Changwon, South Korea. Nowhere else. You're very loyal. That is a consistent answer. I like that. Curly fries? They're up there, yeah. It would probably be some form of curly fry. Maybe a loaded one. No.

I'm a big pizza guy as well, so probably a stone-made pizza would be on there as well. Any toppings? Yeah, just maybe a meat feast, maybe some Korean chicken on top. I don't know. I'm being greedy now. Leave the mess to clean up as well. Well, I'm veggie, but I might go back to eating meat for a donut kebab for the final one. That's a great answer. I'll lose my morals at the very end. If I'm there, I would have lost my morals.

death row are you happy for me because that literally links to death row to talk about you nearly dying from a don of kebab didn't die i just i have a thing where sometimes i choke a bit And basically, I got really excited. Not in a sexual way. Not in a sexual way, though. I didn't enjoy it. And yeah, first bite of this next kebab basically got lodged in my throat. And I had to go to hospital about it. And they'd put a thing down my throat to try and see it.

They asked me to swallow. I said, I can't swallow because I'm choking. And then I'm basically in the room just swallowing the camera whilst being a bit sick. And then they kept me in overnight. And I woke up with doctors around me and they go, drink this water. I can't drink because I can't swallow. They're like, drink it.

So I did that and I'm sick immediately in front of them. Oh my God. And then they just put me on and took the kebab out of my mouth. So it was still there? Yeah, yeah. Just had one bit of kebab. Really savoured the first bite for hours. And got through it in the end there. And that...

Pushed you into becoming a veggie? No, just, no. It was a coincidence. Yeah, but my last meal, I want to try that again. Fair, fair. And then you go out on your own terms if you choke on it again. I like that. I feel like... depends on the mood right now i would just like a big bowl of fried rice you know this my biggest anger is when i go to a restaurant and i've ordered some sort of rice dish and then they won't let me take it away because they tell me it's like health and safety really

Because apparently it will kill you. And I'm like, what? I thought it was a teaspoon of water and you can microwave it and it's good. I'm just like, I have no health and safety standards on my house. Is there a case that you would never do? We had two when we started, which we were very kind of adamant we weren't going to do. And then at the time, I was kind of like, it's a bit strange to pick ones because we cover other ones quite similar to them. The two that we said when we...

started the podcast that we wouldn't go near was the murder of James Bolger and the Dunblane massacre. And predominantly that was because our parents, the age that they were at the time of these two cases, James Bolger, that case. Absolutely broke my parents' heart, as did much of the country at the time. And then Dunblane was kind of a... Yeah, I think my mum was a teacher, so I think she just kind of linked the age of students and all that happening.

So we've ended up covering them, but, you know, we were very careful with them. And yeah, it wasn't, we're quite lighthearted with our true crime, but we were quite down the middle for that one. Yeah. Why are you guys? James Bolger was definitely one of them.

And similarly, because it's actually quite interesting because my parents came to the UK when James Bolger was murdered. Like it was within weeks of when they'd like moved out here. And so they were just like, the fuck and it was just like something that really stuck in their minds but a few years ago I was like no this is silly like it's a really important like pivotal case in UK history like we should talk about it and I started to write it and

I told you this. And my Google Doc just went crazy. It was really bizarre. It was like lines all over my laptop and I couldn't get my laptop to turn off or turn back on. And then when I did, that page just looked super corrupted, even though every other page looked good. And I'm not, I'm not like a believer in spooky things. We said we would play a drinking game where we said we'd drink every time someone said spooky. But the consensus was we wouldn't be named spooky that much.

Siri also hasn't been drinking for a while, so she's going to get fucked up. And I haven't been having caffeine. She's just going to drop 10. It just really freaked me out, even though I was like, obviously there's not James Bulger's fucking ghost in my laptop, but it really...

freaked me out and i just i never went back to it i just was like no i'll write something else i got a bit of i'm sure you guys have got flack in the past for having certain opinions on things and my opinion yeah the nature of the game i mean what i said on that case in particular i was like

you either believe in rehabilitation or not in terms of with children doing things. And then my idea was just like, you can't just say one thing for one case, one thing for another. You either believe in doing that rehabilitation. And then some people just, you know, went to town thinking I was saying.

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Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash redhanded. That's betterhelp.com slash redhanded. All right. If there's one case that you could have solved that's a mystery.

what would that case if you could know the definitive answer wow michael that's michael peterson i mean but the staircase i told you it's not a bad impression it's a good impression wow I was lucky. But Michael Peters in the staircase, because I know some people go, that's, well, he 100% did both the murders. But I've gone full circle with that, and I've landed on the owl.

What's the biggest thing that convinced you it was the owl? It's the blood on the front door and the little micro owl feathers. How do you get micro owl feathers in your head? How does that happen? I've also kind of followed that case a little bit and looked at... his son's Instagram recently and it is Michael Peterson living with him and it's just a very weird dynamic and yeah I don't know that one's always fascinated me but well yeah I keep

kind of chopping and changing between I have quite a strong opinion on the JonBenet Ramsey case I get called out every time I have this opinion because apparently it's a common opinion but there's not as much way to it but I just don't

I don't feel comfortable when I watch interviews with Brother Burke. Thank you. We're both burkers. You're fine. Oh, perfect. There was another case. I literally have the name, maybe you could help me, the name of the case on my mind. It's about a... group of young americans that went missing in the mountains they were driving back from a football game that case has um so we did you know it sounds awful

We did a Christmas special a few years ago, put up in the mountains in the snow. That case has bugged me so much because there's so much to it and there are so many different, you know, there was a witness that had a heart attack whilst the boys were apparently in the mountain. Yeah, the Yuba County Five. I'm so fascinated. We did that one years ago. What about you guys? I think the one for me on Robert One.

Robert Wan. I don't know if you guys have heard about it. It doesn't ring a bell. It's really good. I would highly recommend listening to our episode or waiting till our episode is out, whichever. Basically, very, very short summary about it. 32-year-old lawyer. In DC, he goes, he's like works late, and then he goes to his friend's house, who he's known since university, to stay the night because he lives like a 40-minute drive outside of the city. And his friend, and he lives with his partner.

Victor and a lodger, Dylan. Everything's normal. He gets there 79 minutes after Robert gets there, which is only at like 10.30, so not like the middle of the night. There's a 911 call from the house and it's the husband and he's calling the police saying, someone's been stabbed in the house and it's Robert and Robert's been stabbed and he's dead. They say, the three men in the house say, there was an intruder in the house.

but there is literally not one shred of evidence that anybody came into that house there is no evidence there it's like and i don't even mean just like oh well you know the absence of evidence doesn't mean no like there's no way someone could have come into the house it's like a mid-terrace townhouse and the back garden.

is like literally just a courtyard surrounded by super high fences and there's still cobwebs around the top of the fences and like pollen on the top of the and like how is somebody gonna have bolted over that into a neighbor's garden

and run off into the night, even though the neighbours were awake. And we're like, we didn't see anybody fleeing through our garden. And everything's been undisturbed on the top. Like, there's no way. There's no way. So it's one of them. It's definitely one of the men in the house. What does the snake think? He knows, but he doesn't know if this episode is out yet or not. No, and basically like the weird thing is that Robert's found in bed and he's been stabbed, but there's like no blood.

And so they think someone's cleaned it up, but you can't clean up blood that easily or that quickly. Was the knife still inserted? Well, that's another question. It wasn't there when the police got there, but the story changes about whether it was in him or whether it was on the bedside table.

And I don't think he died of the stab wounds. I don't think they cleaned it up. I don't think he died of the stab wounds. But the biggest thing, and I will leave it at that, is that they find semen on Robert and inside him. And when you hear that, you're like, well, that's who did it. Whoever Seaman that is, is the one who killed Robert. Do you want to guess whose it was? His own. Robert's. It was him! Oh.

So is it still a, I don't want to spoil the episode, is it still a technically unsolved case or was there justice for Robert? No justice. Wow. Spooky. Wow. Makes me tap a wine sound not so bad. Christ. Yeah. Well, the setting of that reminds me of a case we covered recently, which was the Dr. Sneerhan Philip. She was a young doctor in New York. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But there was lots going on in her life. In the build-up to September of 2001, there were allegations.

The part of this episode that I hated was potentially falling into the trap of speaking ill of the dead. But there was a lot going on in her life at the time in terms of her marriage was on the rocks, the family were in debt, she'd been sacked from a recent facility that she worked at.

There were allegations about different sexuality that she may have. 9-11 happens. She was out drinking in a bar in New York, in a known gay bar in New York. Her husband was at work. She never came back, but there were calls made to the apartment. 9-11 happens. She's a doctor. She's in the area, literally walking distance from the Twin Towers, and she was never seen again. So people immediately were, okay, she's a doctor. She ran in to try and help people, and there was her brother.

did an interview on national television to say that I was on the phone with her. She told me she needed to run into the building and help people. And he later admitted that that was a lie and the phone call never happened. So the case, she's still, I think she's been legally declared dead, although she's been missing since 9-11. And it was, yeah, that was similar circumstances, but just such an uncomfortable read in terms of, you know.

Other people were theorizing she fled the country and she's living a new life and she faked to death to start this new life. But it's always hard when you're dealing with cases where there hasn't yet been justice for these people.

I've got a good question. So have you guys ever been contacted by anyone involved in any of the cases that you guys have covered? Yes. I feel like you've got a better story. No. No, so you tell us first. We've had a couple. Interesting ones. Jury member from the Menendez case. Whoa. I mean, to be fair, she did seem like the type of person that would contact anyone that released any content about the case, but very interesting opinions. And then the main one was, I was out the other day.

just grabbing a coffee and then got a message from ben and it was a screenshot and it said you did a case one episode on my husband and we're like yeah we're like don't know who that is and like we're just kind of sitting there like you know when your gut just kind of goes you know who is this what have we said about them

And we didn't know in that instance whether or not they were the victim. So we did ask like, oh, so who was it? And it turned out to be, we do Minisodes on our website, basically. And it was a Minisode we did. Randy Herman Jr. Randy Herman Jr. When he was sleepwalking, he killed a housemate. Allegedly. Allegedly. Well, he did kill them.

but whether it was murdering. Sleepwalking heart was alleged. Okay, sorry. But yeah, so there was a Hulu documentary that got absolutely slated for being very kind of sympathetic towards him. But yeah, he basically, it's a very interesting case. But yeah, his wife... message us saying if you wanted access to him and any of the court things he's still in prison which was bizarre we assumed it was a money-making ploy because why else would you really

Raise awareness? Yeah. But then they got a documentary which is very sympathetic about it. If we were going to do it, we'd try to be. There's a petition to get the documentary removed, which has got like over 100,000 signatures, which you don't usually hear too much. And it was in August because...

Tom and producer Dan, who's not here, but they very kindly did like a birthday shout out for me. And, you know, in the message requests folder on Instagram. So there was like a couple dozen like happy birthday, happy birthday, happy birthday. And then just this one line that said.

you did an episode about my husband. And I was like, oh, okay. And then they didn't say who it was. So we politely responded, you know, okay, thank you so much for reaching out. Who was the husband? Then we got this information. We haven't yet gone back. Hopefully they're not listening.

Probably sleeping. Cheers. I'll drink for that. You've got a second one. I've got my own one. A slightly poured one. And the other one was where someone who was actually studying at Virginia Tech when that happened.

and and we covered the case and they were very you know very nice about it saying like did they know the shooter i don't know if they did they said that they were there at the time on campus and they just said it's important to keep the message out there and because the thing with being slightly light-hearted true crime like you guys do as well sometimes you think like you're walking a bit of a tightrope

But then when people respond who were actually there in part of the case saying it's important to get the story out, really like how you told it, you feel like, okay, that feels the best thing they could possibly ever say. But yeah, it's very jarring to have someone reach out. The other one was...

than dad. Gary Plachey? Gary Plachey. You know the footage where the guy was on the phone in an airport and the guy's getting walked through by the police and he turns on the phone and he shoots the guy? I believe it's Gary Plachey Jr. His son was going to a local gym. I believe he was getting karate lessons from this older gentleman in this gym. It turns out for many years, this older gentleman in the gym was molesting and being sexually inappropriate ways, abusing this young boy.

And the father found out about it. The father was the one that got him all these lessons. And the instructor was arrested. He was being transferred from a different state via plane. A news crew were there to film the transfer of him through this airport. and in the background you see a dad with a hat and glasses on and he just suddenly turns

Yeah, because he kidnapped his son. He kidnapped his son, didn't he, for a while? Kidnapped his son, yeah. But his son... His son reached out, yeah. The victim of the case. Yeah, reached out as well, yeah. Which is, yeah, it's very kind of...

sometimes you do the podcast you don't think about who's listening and like it's obviously very good to start thinking about that as well but yeah we're just in a little room together or remotely or whatever you don't think about the wider world or in a magician's house No, it's so true. I think it's easy to lose sight of who's listening and how many people are. I don't mean it and they're like, oh, we have this responsibility, but it's like...

It's just good to be cognizant of the fact that people are listening because I think when we do live shows, it's like a reminder. And yes, when people message us, but like, yeah, otherwise it's just you two and a mic or you three and a mic. I think we've had a few ones.

of people get in touch. I think the best one is probably Old Hamface, which I probably shouldn't use that name. Hamface or Uncle Ron, I would argue. So Hamface, did you guys ever cover or have you come across the Gable Tosti case? So Gable Tosti, very interesting man. It took place in Australia and basically he matched with this woman on Tinder and then he goes on a date with her, brings her back to his house.

I believe her name was Warina. And she was just on holiday there, like for a wedding from New Zealand. And she's like, you know, having a little holiday, holiday romance. And he immediately starts like being quite weird. Like he starts audio recording the entire date without her knowing.

And they've gone out, they've had some drinks, they're back at his house. And I had to sit and listen to all of this raw audio and it is hours and hours and hours long. And it's so inane, but it's also quite invaluable because of what happens next and basically what ends up happening.

is that marina dies he says that she jumped off his balcony but what it obviously sounds like in the audio is they have a fight and then he puts her out on the balcony he says I just put her out on the balcony and closed the door but I didn't do anything else and then she was so drunk and crazy that she threw herself off the balcony.

And to me, I was like, okay, you know, I'm not there. It's not a video recording. I can't say it. But I said, listening to the audio, that's not what it sounds like is happening because you can hear him put her outside.

And you can hear the glass door of the balcony close and you can hear her voice become more muffled. So it sounds like, yes, she is now on the other side of the balcony and you're inside. I can hear all of that. But the thing I can't hear, she sounds hysterical the whole time he's moving outside and she sounds really hysterical when he...

puts her on the balcony like insanely hysterical and i'm sorry if somebody locked me out on a balcony and i wanted to get back in i'd be banging on the door she never bangs on the door so i theorize he put her over the railings

And that's why she's so hysterical and she's holding on. Because what? You're telling me and everybody else then that she's standing on the other side of the balcony screaming at you to let her in, but her arms are by her side and she's not banging on the glass door. Like, that doesn't make sense. And also, she falls immediately. She's like five seconds and she's falling and she hits the floor. And then he calls the lawyer and then he goes to Domino's.

Anyway, like I just said, it doesn't make sense that that's what she would have been doing. I think he put her over the railing. So he is responsible for her death. And he didn't go to jail for it. He got away with it. And then he basically... He's back on Tinder. Back on Tinder.

And he basically found out about it because he does have, like, this weird, like, following of women that are, like, obsessed with him. Which is just so despicable. Yeah, the type of type, I guess. Yeah, and they basically told him that we had covered this case and then he got in touch with us.

Arson was like, he has this whole thing where he thinks he's very attractive. And like, you know, obviously it's a long time ago, she made fun of people's appearance. But I did say he's got a bit of a ham face, a bit of a hammy face. It's not my best. What? And then basically our listeners. And we did tell them not to. We were like, don't go looking for him. Please don't look for this man. Don't call him ham-faced. It was just a little joke between us.

And then they were like calling him this and then he just got obviously very irate. And I honestly think there's loads of shows that say he did it. But we are maybe a show that two women laughed at his appearance. And I think that's what he did like. and yes it was low but whatever and uh he basically was getting in touch thus being

I'm going to report you to HMRC. Like, that was his slap. Literally, go on Companies House, mate. Like, we pay our taxes. It's very obvious and clear and easy to find. No, clap back as well. HamMRC. Oh, yeah. Well, it was a fucking struggle, that one. Because I was not familiar at all with the case, and I'm not going to go and call him Hamface, but I'm with the guys. I was gripped by that story, and then...

Midway through, around the balcony moment, I realised that you were holding a snake going for a toilet lid. And I just started staring at the snake.

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Now, shall we do story swap? Yes, please. Okay. So this is actually from one of our listeners. So we used to do something on Red Handed a long time ago called Red Haunted, where we would get our listeners to send in their ghost stories. And now we're back with a bang. So let's go. This one, Spooky Kids. Oh, you're not doing spooky.

This is the problem with the drinking game thing is that we always think it's a good idea and then everyone forgets halfway through. Okay, right. So I think this was anonymous because I don't have a name here. I used to work in a children's nursery that operated out of an old refurbished farmhouse. Like many older buildings, there were occasional ghost stories passed around by staff, but they were always laughed off. I didn't believe them.

Until one day, something happened that I've never been able to explain. The attic was the infant's area, separated into two zones. There was the infant's playroom.

And then down a dark, narrow corridor, you reached the cot room, where the little ones napped. A video monitor was set up so staff could keep watch of the babies as they slept, alongside physical checks every 10 minutes. That afternoon... after the children had finished eating most were settled down for their naps only two of us were on duty as everyone else had gone to lunch my colleague went to do a quick routine check and when she came back she remarked that the courtroom

felt strangely cold so she turned the heating up in there. Neither of us thought much of it at the time but not long after we noticed something strange on the video monitor. I don't like it. No, I feel like that's the... Did you guys ever, and I'm going to try to do that Karim case? Do you remember that one? I sure do. Karim? Okay, K-U-R-I-M.

No, I'm immediately thinking of that woman who has had so little sleep, then looks at a baby monitor, sees herself on it, picking her child up and has a panic attack. Someone's with my baby and it was her because she'd had so little. It went semi-viral.

yeah i haven't seen that one no this one's much worse this is horrible you should you should you can you can have it for a future halloween one because we've done it it was um the one where there's this like couple that live in this house and they have

Is it they've got a baby monitor? Yeah, they've got a baby monitor and it starts picking up interference. And this is a real story. I might be getting it wrong. I can't remember the details, but I know the worst bits I am correct about. And basically it was. picking up interference from next door and there was a family that were abusing their kids but i mean like skinning them and they were like have like had some sort of weird torture cult going on next door

I feel like I can't remember all the exact details. That's basically it. And they called the police and that's like how the girls were rescued. So this isn't as bad as that. So yes, they see something weird on the video monitor screen. Basically one of the cots showed the shape of a baby.

pressed up against the bars of the crib. It was hard to miss, even with the grainy black and white feed. Now obviously, she says, we were alarmed, so following safety policy, my colleague went to move the child. She came back almost immediately, though, looking pale and unsettled, and said a sentence I've never been able to forget. There isn't a baby in that cot. At first, I laughed, saying, what do you mean? We both saw a baby on the video feed, clear as day.

Assuming she'd made a mistake, I made my way down to the corridor to check for myself. The ancient floorboards creaked with every step I took, like the house itself was warning me. And when I opened the door to the cot room, I realised something was different. The room was icy cold. My skin prickled. My breath fogged. I went to check the central heating. Like my colleague said, it was on full blast. The babies didn't even seem to be affected by the cold. They were all sleeping peacefully.

I went from cot to cot, confirming each child was accounted for. And I started to relax. Maybe my colleague was just mixed up earlier. As I made my way over to the cot in question, I waved in the direction of the camera, as if to say, everything's fine in here. But then I stopped in my tracks. All the babies were asleep, except one. The cot, the one occupied, on the monitor, was empty. There was completely nothing there.

Now the goosebumps on my arms were for more than just the cold. Back in the playroom, me and my colleague tried to dismiss it. Maybe it was just a glitch in the monitor. But as we spoke, the lights flickered. Once, twice, long enough to make us both freeze. We phoned the manager who was downstairs and asked her if there was anything wrong with the electrics today. She said no. Now seriously spooked, we insisted that she... Spooked. I've smashed mine.

We insisted she come upstairs now. The moment the manager stepped foot in the attic, the lights went out completely for a second before flaring back on, steady and bright. The baby stayed quiet as though nothing had happened. Our manager was sceptical, thinking maybe we were pranking her. But when we tried to show her the monitor, the feed was clear. Every cot was visible. There was no trace of what we'd seen. Nothing at all. What could it have been?

A trick of the monitor? Our imaginations? I don't know. The two of us saw the same exact thing and neither of us could explain it. But I'll never forget what I saw. What I felt. I still think about that empty cot. And whatever, whoever was inside it. Oh, and it says whisper. And whatever or whoever was inside it. There you go. What was it? Ghost baby?

Demon baby. I think Alzheimer's. Absolutely. Monster. If you're running a nursery, I think you should know how many kids are there and the layout and you should be on that, right? Yeah. I just am not convinced that any nursery actually has cots in it. Aren't they supposed to be like free-roaming babies? Yeah, that's a very good point. What was the era of this case? Was it...

I don't know. Back in the day. Back in the day. Well, here is a Gmail that was closed. And we have just reopened. AOL.com. Yeah. No, I don't know. I just think they were glitch. Little glitch, yeah. I hate to just put it down to that, but a little glitch. A little glitch. Yeah, it's one that made me... I'm immediately thinking of... It's a really interesting...

question that our producer Dan raised. We were doing a, do you know the Joel Guy Jr. case? Yeah. The parent annihilator. We were doing an episode together a few weeks ago and he talked about perspective when you're consuming true crime content.

And actually, this might be a fascinating one to ask you guys and your lovely crew. When we were listening to your tale there, everyone that's listening to that has a different perspective of what you've just explained. Some people view it in first person. third person, cinematically fly on the wall. In the Joel Guy Jr. case, there was a moment where he's already, unfortunately, murdered his father. Her mother's out getting groceries for him for Thanksgiving.

He's hiding in the house waiting for his mum to come upstairs to find her husband deceased. And Dan consumes true crime content and reads all of these scripts in first person. His head, yeah. Interesting. So Albert Fish, for example, the old needles in the gooch. Throw that out. But Dan would be putting needles into himself. Whereas I'm straight away... Picture him putting needles into himself. Sorry, sorry, yeah.

So the whole time you explained that I was there, like I saw the baby monitors, I was a fly on the wall. I'm very cinematic with how I would listen to that. A lot of people are first person. Wild. That's when you like find out. Some people don't have an inner monologue. I'm like, what? What's going on in there? He was very... He was very aware of the fact that he sees it because he's felt... So Dan's not...

perhaps as into true crime as we are. And there were a couple of cases when we used to film in person where you could feel him going faint and like about to pass out and he needed to go and get some air. So he's consuming true crime like he's watching Peep Show. yes yep exactly that yeah yeah yeah he's uh super hands um and um super needles and um but well okay sorry sorry um

Yeah, no, the whole time I was seeing a flickering monitor, I was seeing the room, I was seeing empty cops. And it's just, yeah, I wondered if there were any first personers in the room. No, no, I'd say... Any povs in the room? Any povs? No. Any povs? No. No povs in the room? None now. I mean, Dan asked the question, loads of people were like, me too, me too. He does get a bit crazy quite a lot, doesn't he? A lot, but that explains it. It does. In that instance, I suppose he's an imaginary baby.

Really? Or is he the scared nurse? Yeah, I think the nurse. Or is he the flickering, glitching CCTV camera? The thing about perspectives is it blows my mind. Yes, yeah. But no, there are. There definitely are. And I'm sure there'll be some of your listeners that are first person. I don't think I could listen to your crime if I was a first person. Maybe they're the people who don't like it. Yeah, true.

Yeah, that makes sense. We're torturing Dan every time we do a podcast. Yeah, he got very upset yesterday. We talked about the case of Emmett Till. Oh, yeah. Oh, woof, yeah. Yeah. And it was, again, if you're familiar with that story, Dan put himself in first person for that, which I'm saying he put himself like it was a choice. Yeah, yeah.

That's rough. I don't think I could do this if I was in first person for these cases. No, no, no. So I was like, come on, let's keep talking. And then I remembered his perspective and I'm like, oh, wow, Jesus. Okay, no. When people are like, oh, how do you compartmentalize?

Just not by being in first person. Yeah. Yeah. Great answer. Watch it as a film so you're not being involved. Yeah. Disconnected. Yeah. But there were more, there were loads of people that were like, yeah, I do that too. Yeah.

Why do you keep listening? Please listen. That's interesting. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, perspective. Do you want to share a little story? Yeah, give us a story. Give us a story, mate. I feel like I've got high expectations for yours now. Yeah, he's really sold it. Why? Why? You said it was good earlier. It's not my story. I'm just reading it. You said it slaps. It slaps. You did say that. So...

This fell really nicely for us as a few series ago, we released episodes 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off, and Tom did a little segment which was called Spooky Corner. I haven't got one anymore. Would you like some of my beer? Yes, I'd love some.

So yeah, a few months ago, Tom had a segment, which was Spooky Corner. And yeah, similar to you guys, we had loads of our listeners send stories in and we weren't able to tell all of them, but I'm very happy to be able to share this one today. And it reads as follows. So this was actually sent in by Jim B. Okay. Okay. Hi, chaps and ladies. I'm horribly aware that this may be a bit late in being sent, but I wanted to recount this spooky event that happened to me some 30 odd years ago.

in the hopes that you gents and ladies find it interesting. While this occurred a long while ago, just outside Maidstone in Kent, it nonetheless has ingrained itself in the firmament of my memory. You'll have to Google firmament. I've never heard that word before. It's in the front of his mind. It's always been on his mind. So, here it goes. It happened as I was walking home from spending the evening with my mates at the other end of town.

I love this way of just saying I was pissed, by the way. Fortified by the world's supply of alcohol, I decided to take an unfamiliar shortcut through a nature reserve, most of which was wooded. as doing so would probably take off half an hour from my journey home. The downside of this shortcut was not only that it was a pretty scary place at night, but it also required climbing over a large locked gate.

and therefore trespassing. Or trespassing, if you speak like me. But as CCTV wasn't really a thing back then, nor was the area patrolled by any kind of security, at least as far as I knew. I thought it was a fairly safe bet that I wouldn't get pinged by anyone. So I went for it. Assured in my somewhat adult brain. Adult tipsy brain. Adult's a bit stronger than... This is actually quite a big sentence. Sorry. Yeah, I put so many commas in this. So I went for it.

assured in my somewhat adult brain that my espionage skills would allow me to pass like shadows in the wind. Sadly, I was disabused of such prideful sentiments as I found myself quickly entangled by brambles, another snagging type undergrowth. Russell Brand right there. Yeah, but it puts you in perspectives. It puts you there. So basically he's climbing over a gate. He's had a few to drink. Got it. Scary route. Brambles.

Undergrowth. Titus Bremble. So, as I elected to climb over the gate, it was situated at the very back end of the nature reserve in an area that was left to grow wild. I managed to free myself from the area with much of my arms and legs torn up. And more by dumb luck than judgment, I found myself on a woodland path that dropped down into a wide dip dissected by a stream, which crossed via a small bridge. It's like Tolkien.

It's universe building. The path then led up to the other side and joined a main path that I knew would eventually lead out of the woods via a stile and requiring the climb of another large gate. before I would then be into a small housing estate close to home. This feels like when you read about, like, a hiking route on All Trails. It's like a very, very detailed breakdown of your path.

Fuck all trails. I hate all trails. Oh, wow. Because I feel like the categorization of their trails is highly inaccurate. It's like Dwight Schrute directions. All trails, the Dutch hikers in... Panama Cloud. We quoted from that website on that trail and it was interesting. But this, back to the story. It will lead you astray. It will tell you it's like a seven and it'll be a nine.

As I slowly stumbled my way down the path, I suddenly became aware of a light bobbing and weaving through the trees to my left. Groaning inwardly, I assumed I was about to get collared by a security guard or some such attached to the end of a maglite torch, and so started to prepare the dickhead-who-got-lost-on-his-way-home routine, which, to be fair, wasn't that far away from the truth. Apart from the trespassing thing.

As the light wove its way closer, I soon saw that it wasn't a torch or indeed a pissed off security guard that was about to give me the good news with a massive maglite torch. But it was what appeared to be the upper torso of a man. with arms flaying about like some sort of macabre puppet that seemed illuminated from the inside. If that makes any sense. That's what he's put. As if that wasn't terrifying enough, I could see that he had no face whatsoever.

just like a black void. He had long hair that appeared loosely tied back in a Regency-style ponytail slash plait wrapped in a leather-looking ribbon. I could make out the top half of its legs. which seemed to fade into nothing just above the knee. This guy's the best eyewitness ever. Can you imagine seeing this, being that scared and being like, Regency style. Leather ribbon.

At this point, I was rooted to the spot, praying that the warm sensation spreading down the front of my shorts was just the result of my laboured climb. Up the steep hill. The figure continued staggering past me, moving rather like one of those people you see in old film reels as the frames jump about, giving the appearance of a jerky kind of walk. Oh, like the ring.

The figure then passed me and appeared to totally fade out from the head downwards. Looking down, my worst fears were now confirmed as I stared at the wet map of Africa that had suddenly appeared on the front of my shorts. I've got a birthmark on my leg that looks like Africa. Get it out. There you go. Oh, yeah. You're welcome. I've got the British Isles on the top of my thigh, but that's for OnlyFans.

But this was piss. That is the best description of a piss patch that I've ever heard. Africa. But to be honest, I say that was fair play after witnessing what I had just seen. With my senses returning to me, I took off at a rate that would give Usain Bolt a run for his money. Excuse the pun. I have never seen anything like this before or since, nor do I ever wish to.

Some years later, I did some research into the area to try and see if any similar accounts were reported or any weird incidents existed. I love that he waited years before he looked into it. Not to let it out. Bad hangover, bad hangover. And I soon came across a very interesting piece of history. It turns out the nature reserve is actually part of what was once the private gardens of a large manor house known as Vinter's Manor that owned much of the land around there too.

legend has it that two brothers who lived in the manor both fell in love with the same young lady who was the daughter of one of the tenant farmers upon finding out that she was the object of both of their desires They ended up fighting a duel in Woodland not far from their home. The younger brother shot his older sibling, winning the duel and the affections of the young lady. It is...

No, please. No, no, no. It's going to be good. He's quick. Jeremy wasn't good. No, please. No, no, no. Seriously. It's not like you. No, no, no. Okay. So he's been shot. Sorry. It is said that the wounded duelist tried to make his way back but died somewhere in the woods on the grounds of the estate. His stomach blown apart. On Mike's face? So maybe what I saw was some grisly replay of that brother's final moments. I would love to hear what you guys think, or would do, in a similar situation.

Best wishes and a massive thanks for taking the time to read this. Cheers, Jim B. And Jim B, you can include my name if you want. And his signature, I believe he works in quite a good job. Okay. Well done, Jim. What, Jim? That was very good vocabulary, Jim. It was great. Yeah.

I would have thought because he said that the thing had like a black void for a face, he would have been shot in the face. Yeah. No, shot in the stomach. Okay. Facing above the knee, he said, didn't he? Okay. What's going on? Yeah. Big story. What would I have done? probably researched it sooner. Yeah, less piss. I like to think. Oh, I definitely would have pissed myself. But I would have just got an Uber home. That's true. 94 slash 5. Blackab.

Black Cab Home. That's a good one. It's all right. Glad I picked you up, Jim, because I would have been crucified. And there's one downstairs. There is a crucifix downstairs. And we learned some words as well. Yes, we did. I've forgotten them all. Adult.

Piss. Ferment. Cat. There you go. Also, I could murder red-handed. It kind of flows. It kind of slaps. It's very good. It's very good. Oh, this must be a question you get all the time. If you were going to murder someone, how would you do it? Oh, I went immediately quite bad, didn't I? You did. Showed bad insight to my personality. Old folks home, wasn't it? Just slip somebody in the food.

But just because that's it. That's how to get away with it. Yeah, sure. Icicle knife. Yeah, I've heard that one. Ice sword is a good one. Yes, yeah. Ice sword. Yeah, I do feel quite emasculated. Nice dagger. I know, people do say that, but I'm like, that's not always the main reason people get away with it just because they couldn't find the murder weapon. That's very true. There's that one in Edinburgh, wasn't it, where it'll push off the old cliff top. Yeah, what's that called?

Arthur's Seat. Is that the one? Was it Arthur's Seat? I thought that's where they found the little coffins, wasn't it? Yeah, they're on Arthur's Seat for sure. Am I making that up? No, they're like an ancient... Yeah, they are. That's like a witch thing. It's not related to her. Because you can't deal with a push off a cliff. You can't really judge it. Yeah, this is the thing. It's like...

It's like pushing your wife down the stairs if you didn't get the owl to do it. Don't say like... You didn't. If you're Michael Peterson. You don't know that's going to kill her. Yeah, exactly. She'll just get up and be like... You pushed me down the fucking stairs. Release the owls. Why was the owl so angry? Naturally. Have you seen videos of owls? There's nest cams of owls in America snatching other birds from nests, and it's...

Terrifying. And Owlsian Rabbits, that video is horrible. And there was other people in the area who were like, I was out jogging and an owl attacked me. Yeah. In the back of the head. They can also sit cross-legged. That's cool. Yeah. They're really long legs. Oh, yeah. The skeletons of an owl are actually quite terrifying because it's just... Well, there you go. Who knew? Hannah, do you want to talk? Okay. Desperately. This is from...

She's spelt it R-H-I, which I would say really short for Rihanna, probably. Yeah. Okay, and here is what she has to say. In my early 20s, I started working at an extremely well-known haunted pub in, wait for it, Cockwood. Devon. It's called The Anchor Inn. The pub has a very nautical, old-timey smugglers vibe, and it's over 450 years old. Originally, it opened as a seaman's mission way on the local harbour, a haven for soldiers and smugglers. And they bring the seaman themselves.

Local legend says that the pub is haunted by a friendly fisherman and his dog. A fisherman's friend? Quite. That is actually the title of this story. It's cute. And I knew all of these stories before I started working there. Little did I know how close I would get to the seaman. That's where I went.

I had my fair share of weird experiences whilst working at the pub. Like all of the staff members, I often had a feeling of being watched from the dark corners of the bar snugs late at night while locking up. But one night... Whilst I was chopping onions. Seems like an odd late night task. Surely that's morning prep. I felt a whole hand on my waist. As if to move me out the way. I turned around to apologise to my fellow chef.

To find that no one was in the kitchen with me. It took a while to shake off the uncomfortable feeling of those hands. Them hands. Gripping me. And as hard as I tried, I could never quite explain it away. Anyway. The time came when I needed somewhere to live. And the flat above the pub was surprisingly cheap because it was 100% haunted. But I was poor, so I had to live there anyway.

My first night was eerie, strange sounds and creaking aplenty, with cold breezes coming through the ancient single-pane windows that couldn't be replaced, because it's a heritage site. Oddly... The sounds of voices coming up through the floorboards of my colleagues and guests laughing was actually quite comforting. So I drifted off to sleep quite happily. It doesn't sound like it. Although I didn't stay asleep.

Every night, without fail, at about 4am, I would be woken up in a cold sweat by a Blair coming from the pub's burglar alarm. Tony Blair. Tony Blair is just shouting at the end of your bed. If my sleep paralysis system was Tony Blair... I mean... Country is under attack. We were talking about this in the Aussie the day, about when, like...

Sophie, et cetera, were at school. They were all really worried about obesity. So all the children had to be weighed and everyone had to be weighed in front of everyone. But obviously our generation, Tony Blair, was just quite worried that we actually couldn't read. So he was just literacy and numeracy, wall to wall. I'm going to prove that war in a bit. Anyway, every time Tony Blair appeared, I would jump up and go and turn it off and check for intruders. But there was never anyone there.

So, we assumed that the alarm sensors must be faulty if they're going off at four o'clock in the morning every single day. So the landlord had them checked out, but they were perfectly fine. The only thing that could possibly trigger the alarm was the presence of a person. especially Tony Blair. One night, I woke up in a cold sweat again, at 4am, naturally. But this time it wasn't the alarm. There was a loud banging on my wall. As my eyes adjusted to the darkness, I saw...

A bearded man wearing a thick fisherman's jumper and a distinctive hat stood in the corner of my room, staring right at me. I shot upright and flicked the bedside light on, but he had vanished. And then... I heard it. Pause on the flagstones below, scurrying around the pub downstairs. I grabbed my trusty club. Are you all right? He's sleeping with a club under your pillow. All right, Fred Flintstone.

And with my heart in my throat, I ran downstairs only to find the pub completely empty with all of the doors locked and everything completely still. I knew then for certain that I was not alone. The next morning, I smudged my apartment with Sage. and used some protective spells that my witchy mother gave me to try and make a pact with my ghostly roommate. You stay in the pub downstairs, Tony Blair, and I will stay upstairs. To my amazement, it worked.

After that night, the alarm stopped and Tony Blair in his fisherman jumper never returned. Years later, scrolling through Facebook, a local history page had posted a photo of the Anchor Inn in 1885. Pushing a wheelbarrow on the harbour, facing the camera, was the very same Tony Blair that I saw in my bedroom. Same beard, same war crimes, same thick fisherman jumper, same hat.

A little bit of wee came out when I saw that photo. So much piss. So much piss. The picture solidified what I had been trying to laugh off for so long that the Anchor Inn was, in fact, haunted as fuck. Thankfully, I don't live there anymore and I'm only a daytime customer. The end. Thank you. Yeah, well done. A wheelbarrow on a port is something I've never pictured before. How are you getting that stuff off the boat?

That's true, but it's just a garden. So this was a story from one of our listeners. I'm going to call it Woof Woof. That's cute. Well, we'll see how cute it is by the end. So 32 years ago, Embo always stuck with me. First things first, I'm very skeptical. I don't believe in ghosts in the way the mainstream perceives the supernatural. And this is probably the only time I can remember in my life I was genuinely afraid.

Even though I was just a child, it's still something I question so much to this day. I lived in a two-story flat in a small village just north of Cardiff. The flats had the exact same layout with my mum, toddler brother and older brother along with myself in the top flat.

Underneath was my mum's best friend, her partner and son, the same age as my younger brother. It was a bit of a 90s setup, we had a living room arrangement where kids had the same bedroom, etc. Anyway, one morning me and my older brother were up early, watching Sharky and George. Great show, remember?

Yeah, Sharky and George, detectives on the sea. And my mum was reading with my younger brother asleep in his cot. We had a massive scream when my mum rushed into the bedroom to find my brother crying at the corner of the wall. She picked him up and he was absolutely soaked like a bucket of water had been thrown over him. He kept pointing and say lady and woof woof. There was a bit of confusion but we all went to the living room when mum dried and changed him.

Then a minute later, thereabout, we heard someone walking up the stairs outside. There were metal so could always hear someone coming. Bang on the door and loudly opened it, we heard our neighbour downstairs came in crying with her boy.

was also soaking wet and crying. He also said an old lady and a dog. They were both about three years old at the time so he didn't know what each other were saying. Both cots were in the same room and they both pointed in the same corners that mum's friend showed us.

It was such a strange experience, and the older I got, the weirder I thought this experience was. How they both weren't connected in any way, but they said exactly the same thing, and they were both soaking wet. We moved a year later, my younger brother doesn't remember a thing about it, but what do you guys think happened?

It's from Darren Pittway. Go on, Darren. So the younger brother and his friend who lived upstairs both said they saw the same thing and were both found soaking wet. Yeah, both saw it. It said old lady and a dog. And they're both soaking wet as if they've thrown a bucket over them. But it was two stories, the flats. No residue of water bomb. A little bit of balloon scattered on the floor. Even with that, it's like, how are they seeing out the window, seeing a lady in a woof-woof?

Yeah, but if you're a kid in a cot, you're not going to be looking out and seeing outside the window. if you're then suddenly wet I don't know it has to be a great shot for a water balloon for a window but yeah Dazzler he said Dazzler on here by the way Dazzler yeah Dazzler yeah that's yeah I don't know how to explain that

Well, that was fantastic. Thank you guys so much for sharing your stories. And thank you to everyone who wrote in. Sorry if we didn't pick your story. Maybe next time. Has anyone got any final thoughts, feelings, concerns? Plugs. Listen to our podcasts, Red Handed, and I Could Murder a Podcast. Yeah, it sounds like you have some humdingers coming out soon. Very interesting cases. So we'll be sure to check those out. Yeah, we're wrapping up our series. We'll have been finished.

Halloween. But yeah, we might do some specials, maybe some spooky Halloween specials and maybe a Christmas special. But, you know, we just wanted to say thank you so much to you guys and to your lovely crew. Thank you so much for having us on. It's been a very big pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining us. We don't often hang out with other podcasters, so this was lovely. So yes, listen to Red Handed wherever you listen to your podcasts.

And if you have been listening to the audio version of this, I would highly recommend that you just watch it again on YouTube. And you should also check out our new friends, Icon Merger Podcast. And please listen to Flesh and Code. Yes, go further out. Please. because we spent ages making stuff. Yeah. And now Andrew said, Happy Halloween! Happy Halloween!

In the fall of 1620, a battered merchant ship called the Mayflower set sail across the Atlantic. It carried 102 men, women, and children, risking it all to start again in the New World. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of American History Tellers. Every week we take you through the moments that shaped America, and in our latest season, we explore the untold story of the pilgrims, one that goes far beyond the familiar tale of the first Thanksgiving.

After landing at Cape Cod, the Pilgrims forged an unlikely alliance with the Wampanoag people who helped the Pilgrims survive the most brutal winter they'd ever known, laying the foundation for a powerful national myth. But behind that story lies another, one of conflict

Betrayal and brutal violence against the very people who helped the Pilgrim survive. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of American History Tellers The Mayflower early and ad-free. Right now on Wondery+. Nearly 30 years ago, a vicious serial killer murdered five women in and around the city of Mons in Belgium, not far from where I'm standing right now.

He taunted authorities, placing their dismembered body parts in locations designed to terrorize the population. There was a macabre and mysterious discovery of body parts apparently dismembered with a saw. according to investigators. His identity remains unknown, but his name still sparks fear. The Butcher of Moss. Ten trash bags have been discovered so far. Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer.

For the moment, none of the victims have been identified. We've unearthed new evidence, new witnesses, and new suspects. This is Le Monstre, Season 2, The Butcher of Moss. Listen for free. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.