Madeline Soto: Handed to a Monster | #418

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I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed, where I have broken my no caffeine binge by having all the caffeine I can fit into a cup. I, who have no caffeine rules, would never in a million years order a triple shot. I ordered it online so I could run to pick it up because I was like, oh, I've got to catch this train.

And it was like, it's recommended just two shots for this size trip. I was like, three! Make it three. And then I got to the train station. Fine, got on the train. And then it just dumped me on the side of the fucking tracks. in the middle of Welland Garden City where I was like, this train's not even meant to fucking stop here. And then I had to order an Uber and luckily I got one all the way from Welland to East London. Could have been worse.

And the best thing that happened when the car pulled up is it was like one of those Teslas that opens like a bird. And I was like, this is so extra. That's so funny. But I am here. My heartbeat is like a little hummingbird. And we're just going to get through this. And I'm already feeling quite angry about this case. Yeah, you have been a bit of a rage whirlwind. So shall we just get?

999 on fucking speed dial when I have a heart attack before this episode is over. Because this is a case that I have been following from the very beginning. Can confirm. Because almost immediately, as soon as 13-year-old Madeline Soto was reported missing in February 2024, something didn't seem quite right. Madeline's mum, Jennifer, and her boyfriend, Stefan,

spent hours giving these, like, in-depth statements to the police, which we're going to get to, and also very tearful interviews to the media. But within days, it became crystal clear that this was not a case.

of an errant teenage runaway, or even some sort of opportunistic kidnapping. And as investigators picked apart the lives and sleeping arrangements of those who lived in the Soto home, Soon came bombshell after bombshell, with the reality of what Maddy had endured finally being revealed to the world, in a story more twisted than anyone could have imagined. Madeline Soto was born on the 22nd of February 2011. Her parents, Jen Soto and Tyler Wallace, separated pretty much straight away.

with her dad moving to Texas and marrying another woman just two months later. And it doesn't seem that, physically at least, Madeline's dad Tyler was in her life that much at all. As Maddy grew up, she discovered a love of music and dancing and art. She was a generous and kind girl. She was a bit quiet, and she did seem to struggle concentrating in class.

Maddy was eventually diagnosed with anxiety and ADHD. She took hydrazine at night to help her sleep and Adderall during the day. Maddy lived in Kissimmee. in Osceolo County, Florida. I have spent an enormous amount of time in Kissimmee. Have you really? Mm-hmm. Is it because back when you were younger you used to go there then? That's where the house is. Ah.

Because it's close enough to Disney World without having to be in actual Orlando, which is wild. I've never been to the Sunshine State, much to my chagrin. I wouldn't. One day. One day. I don't know. I think that particular area hasn't got much going for it. I think Miami's its own thing. I don't think you can lump that in with the whole state.

I was going to say because I started re-watching Dexter. Uh-huh. And it does make me want to go to Miami. I really want to go to Miami. Yeah. But I would say Miami has a lot more in common with Cuba than Kissimmee does with Miami. I see. I see. So yeah, they're in Kissimmee, Osceola County. And Maddie and her mum, Jen, they live in a very nice four-bed detached house set within a gated community. And yes, as Hannah has said, Central Florida.

Land of a million theme parks, maybe more, who knows. And it seems very much inescapable probably in the lives of the residents there for miles around. In fact, shortly before Maddie's 13th birthday, which is where our story starts, her mother Jen got a job on the front desk at Disney's Coronado Springs Resort.

And if you're wondering how the family could afford such a massive four-bed house in a very fancy gated community on a single income, because yes, although Jen was in a relationship with a man named Stefan Stearns who did stay at the house quite regularly, He certainly did not financially contribute to the family. I will say.

Everywhere is a gated community. I see. And you can ask my mother about the housing crash that happened very specifically in that area. I see. They are not expensive. Okay, because I was like, that's a very big house. Not in Kissimmee, it's not. Okay, I see. So yeah, basically how she does fund it though is, because she's not earning a huge amount of money. Sure, sure, sure. And she's just started this job as like a receptionist.

But basically what she does is she buys a four bedroom house and then she rents out two of the rooms to lodgers. What it makes me think of and I haven't been there for a long time and you know who cares what I think I'm just a potato but. You know in the big short where they go around and they're asking all these people who've had these subprime mortgage and they go to a house that's abandoned and there's a gator in the pool. Yeah. That's what it's like.

I feel you. I feel you. So yes, that is, mine is the gator, mine is the pool. Big fucking house. Two lodgers living there. And when I first read that, I was like, oh, two lodgers. And I'm not going to like... to cry a mother who is clearly doing her best on the limited income that she has to bring her daughter up in probably as nice an area as she can, because of course that makes a difference to children. But as we can already see.

there are quite a few non-biologically related adults around 13-year-old Maddie a lot of the time. Which can, just statistically speaking... often be quite bad news bears. And only gets worse. Because at the time, Jen and Stefan were struggling through their fair share of relationship issues as well. He had lived in the house full time from 2017 up until December 2023. And then he'd moved back in with his parents in Port North, four hours away.

But Stearns still came to visit Jen and Maddie very regularly. However, when he did come to stay, he and Jen slept in separate bedrooms. And some of you might be frantically counting on your fingers to work out how this arrangement, if you can call it that, complete with two adult lodgers and a 13-year-old girl, adds up to one room for each of these people.

Well, it doesn't. With all of the bedrooms occupied, Jen made her daughter a weird makeshift bedroom in the living room of the house. It was separated from the main living space. With a screen. Like one of those foldy ones. Yeah. A lot of places have reported this screen to be a partition wall. But it...

Absolutely is not. It's like something you'll see on a spare room ad that's like self-contained bedroom and it's just like a toilet with one of those like concertina screens. That's exactly what it is. It's basically like what? Victorian ladies would have, like, hidden behind to get out of the bath. Yes. One of those fold-out wooden room dividers that people use to hide their clutter. Just throw a rug over it. That's my trick. That's for all cutter.

Wall clutter, little room divider, chuck it in front of it. And behind the so-called partition wall screen is the quote-unquote room. And it's a bed and a chest of drawers and a desk, and that's where Maddie was supposed to be doing her sleeping. And her homework, presumably. Maddie mostly used this space to hang out in and use her computer.

but not actually to sleep. That's because the lodgers would often be up and about in the living room quite early, and they'd wake her up. And this is where... Quite early on. Any benefit of the doubt that I could give Jen Soto for wanting to, you know, have this big house to bring Maddie up in in a nice area kind of runs out of road quite quickly because the bedroom allocations.

to me at least, clearly shows the pecking order of priority within the home as far as Jen is concerned. Why isn't Jen Soto sleeping downstairs and giving her daughter... The room upstairs. Or why isn't fly-by-night boyfriend down there? Quite. Yeah. Because remember, this is her daughter who already has difficulty sleeping at night because she's on medication to help her sleep at night. And...

Also on medication because she has difficulty concentrating at school, which if you don't have a good night's sleep because the lodgers are fucking up and about waking you up early, it's just going to make that situation even worse. Even if you ignore that, like the kind of... challenges that maddie has with her adhd and anxiety even if you ignore that wouldn't it just be a good idea to give a teenage girl her privacy in a house full of random adults

surely your daughter's sleep safety and comfort should be the most important thing yeah i agree and also i think one of the major problems i think about like the discussion about adhd is that everyone thinks they know what it is and most people categorically do not like a friend of mine who's a teaching assistant for special needs kids explained it really well to me the other day she was like i always think about it like

When you have an auditory processing disorder, everything is the same volume. And ADHD is a life processing disorder. I can't differentiate between the importance of things, which is why I get really... bothered very quickly by people interrupting or talking over each other because i have my entire life known that i get it wrong so when that happens it makes me really anxious because i'm like i'm gonna miss it

And then everyone's going to be mad at me and then I'm going to get shot. And that happens every time someone talks over someone else. So if you are a child with ADHD in a very overstimulating environment, that's even worse. Because she has no safe space to retreat to. And yes, absolutely the point you made, Hannah. Like, okay, if Jen's not going to take the room downstairs, here's an idea, Jen. Why not tell your fucking boyfriend?

To just stay at his parents' house, where he lives, also rent-free. Or, when he does want to stay at yours, tell him, no, adult man, you can't have your own fucking room. Because surely, I know they're having, like, these relationship issues. But surely if Stefan Stearns is coming over to stay at your house, Jen, then surely you're in a good enough place as a couple for him to sleep in your bed.

with you his partner otherwise why is he there exactly yeah exactly or i don't know how about this why doesn't he get relegated to the weird living room situation why is it maddie because Jen Soto's priorities. And look, I appreciate that if you guys listening don't know this case, you're just like, why is it coming down so fucking hard on this bed arrangement so early? Hold your fucking horses.

But if you're already as angry as Saru is, it's going to get worse. Because, as we said, Maddy didn't often actually sleep downstairs. Most of the time, she would end up in bed with her mum. And sometimes, Stefan Stearns. We'll join them. Can we just... I can see... I can see a situation where that isn't weird. Not this one. No. But, like, I can understand...

Parent, step-parent, step-child. I can understand that. Yes. Look, firstly, can I say, she's 13 years old. She's a girl. And by Jen Soto's own admission, Maddie sleeps in the middle. Secondly, Stefan Stearns, 37-year-old man, he hasn't been around Maddie her whole life. So it's not like he's a step-parent who's been there for a long time. He's committed to Jen Soto. They're married. He's integrated into this family.

He's been there for four years. He comes and he fucking goes. He doesn't even live in the house anymore. And yes, no, I hate this. I hate this so much. No, no, no. And I'm also like, there's another fucking bed next door. If they're all sleeping together, why are they all sleeping together? If Stefan Stearns is going to sleep with Jen Soto, then why is Maddie in the bed? There's another bed next door. Ugh. Rage.

And sometimes 13-year-old Madeline Soto would sleep alone in bed with her mum's 37-year-old on-and-off-again boyfriend in his room. Alone. It's not good. No. So, uh, put a big uncomfortable pin in that. And probably your own ears. And eyes. And just orifices. Because we'll come back to it later on. For now.

Let's go back to Jen Soto's first week working at the Disney Resort. She had a training day set for Sunday the 25th of February 2024, which sadly was the same day that Maddie was having her 13th birthday party. Still, despite the fact that her mother couldn't make it, Maddie had a great day, surrounded by family, at a party thrown for her by her grandparents. No one, at the time, had any idea of the devastation.

that the next five days would bring. After the party, Maddy was dropped off at home at around 8.30pm. When she arrived, there was no one there. Staffan turned up about ten minutes later. He was there for a planned week-long visit to celebrate Maddy's birthday. So that night, he made sure that Maddy took her medication. He took a shower and then he went to bed, although he was still awake when Jen finally got home at half ten.

Jen was stressed. She'd messed up her own medication the previous night and barely slept. So she told Stefan and Maddy that she just had to get a good night's sleep to be fresh for the work the next day. Now Maddy, according to Jen. was a sleep fidgeter, and Stefan snored. So, Jen asked Maddy if she would sleep in Stefan's bed with Stefan, while she, Jen, slept downstairs.

Jen also asked her boyfriend if he would be okay to take Maddie to school the next morning so that she could have a bit of a lie-in. And Stefan said that he'd be more than happy to. So who is this Stefan Stern's character? A lot of the information out there about him comes from people who knew him growing up. His parents have also given a number of interviews, which we would highly recommend checking out because they are very enlightening.

They paint a picture of a child they didn't know how to parent, who grew into a man they had to look after well into his thirties. They paid his bills. He lived in their house for free. He stole from them regularly. And they totally enabled him. And it seems that the issue started when Stefan Stearns was eight years old. When he was run over by a truck. Twice.

I know. I like watch the interview where the mum is talking about this and I'm like, twice. But it's because the truck hits him and then reverses and accidentally hits him again. I mean, I cannot imagine. How horrific that must have been to witness. Girl in my year at school got run over by her doctor. Oh my God. I broke her arm. Fuck it. It's like a doctor's version of a fucking ambulance chaser. Oh my God.

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So yeah, Stefan Stearns' mum witnessed this horrific accident and said that the truck actually ran over her son's head. So I think it's safe to say that this would have resulted... in a pretty severe traumatic brain injury that would have no doubt impacted Stern's development, his impulsivity, his IQ and his judgment. But make no mistake.

As we will see throughout this episode, Stefan Stearns certainly knows the difference between right and wrong. Stearns, though he was never actually like... a loner or completely socially ostracized or anything was regarded as odd growing up like the interviews i watched with kids who knew him in like school they're like he was

part of like a friendship group he wasn't like a total weirdo but there was something off about him and as he got into his teenage years he started showing some pretty troubling signs it's been reported that he would collect his own sperm in jars that he would keep in his bedroom. And allegedly, as if that wasn't weird enough. He would take these jars into school and slip the contents into girls' drinks. And like, that isn't just like a little teenage prank.

That's violation. It is boundary crossing to the extreme. It's deviant. There are also allegations that I've read from people that Stefan Stearns went to school with saying that he would also photograph and film girls without their consent. A habit that you will soon discover he never quite let go of.

And this one is pretty bleak because another friend claims that back then, when they were like teenagers, he and Stearns had shared an online drive. And one day, this friend had found... all sorts of disturbing images on there now he never actually clarifies exactly what he found on there presumably because he's embarrassed about what happens next which is the fact that

According to him, Stefan Stearns' mum paid him off to stop him from reporting it to the police. But I think judging by what's going to happen in this episode, I'm guessing it was some sort of... Child sex abuse material. Safe to say, Stearns never really grew up into a functioning adult. He never settled in a job and mostly just dicked about with his pretty lame hobbies.

He worked for a while in real estate and then in contracting, and even did a short stint as a cast member at Disney World. Which is absolutely terrifying, considering what he turned out. to be but at this point in his life when he was with jen soto those who had only known stefan as an adult Figured that he was just a bit of a man-child who didn't wash, spent too much time playing Warhammer, and loved buying things that he could not afford.

How much Jen knew about his true proclivities is a question for later on. And with regards to his parents, they always disapproved of Stefan's relationship with Jen. Could that be... Because, as we go on to see, they knew damn well what their son was and the risks that he posed to Maddy Soto. So, the next day...

On the 26th of February, the day after his Jen-approved sleepover with Maddy, at around 10am, Stefan texts Jen to tell her that he'd taken Maddy to school. He said that they'd left very early, at around 7.15. so that he could take Maddie for a McDonald's breakfast. But he said that on the way Maddie changed her mind and said that she didn't want one after all. He also told Jen that Maddie had forgotten her phone that day.

And that wasn't a massive shock. It was like Maddy to forget things. And since she was just at school all day, Jen figured it was no big deal. That afternoon at 4.30, Jen went to school to pick Maddy up. But long after the bell had rung... There was still no sign of her daughter anywhere. Jen didn't know what to do. She couldn't even call Maddie. She knew a few places where her daughter might go hang out. But it wasn't like her to just disappear. Still.

Jen went to check, and she also called a few of Maddy's friends. But they all told her that they hadn't seen Maddy all day. So Jen emailed the school, and they sent over the attendance sheet. which confirmed it. Maddie had never made it to school that day. Finally, at 8pm that evening, 12 hours after Stefan Stearns claimed to have seen Maddie, Three 911 calls were made to report Maddy missing. We actually don't know who called the police, but we know that it wasn't Jen or Stefan. It was...

probably a family member of Jen's who was with them. And frustratingly, as if this isn't a big enough delay, the police didn't arrive at the house to speak with the Sotos and Stern until after midnight. Why would Jen still be at the house waiting? Sure, someone should stay home in case Maddy turns up, but why isn't Jen Soto at the police station demanding that someone listen to her, but her missing child?

I find that really strange. I don't know whether this is because of the Disney connection, but I can't get Casey Anthony out of my head. And look, I don't want to... give away all of my thoughts straight away so I'm gonna like hold them under my bushel but it's just weird I just want everybody to remember these things right yeah I just think it's strange like

The 911 calls, I've listened to them, and you can tell in them that the person who's calling, who, like I said, I think is a relative of Jen's, is getting increasingly frustrated. The police are not responding very, like... urgently to the situation of this 13 year old girl being missing and i just don't know why jen soto isn't at the police station because it takes so long for the police to come there

They call at 8pm. The police don't get there to speak to them for another four hours. I would have been banging down the door of the police station being like, why won't anybody listen to me? My daughter is missing. And again, you know, we can say we'd all react differently. But when the police get there, watch the body cam footage, which we're going to go on to play you some clips of. I'm not saying Jen Soto is just chilling, but like I did think it was quite weird. Anyway.

During this initial police conversation with Jen and Stefan, Jen clearly takes the lead. Stefan sort of like hangs back a bit. He's got his arms folded across him. He's got this very like sad look on his face. It's just very obvious. He does a lot of mirroring. He just repeats everything that Jen says. Or like kind of randomly talks over her saying things that are like not really adding anything. It's quite strange. But Jen seems okay.

I would say she seems a bit anxious and she seems very wired, like a woman who has maybe had three shots of espresso. And yes, that's totally to be expected. And I do think she seems quite together. Now, people say that she doesn't look sad enough that her daughter is missing. And like, maybe I'm not going to get into that. People react very differently in situations like this. I can totally imagine a situation in which.

You are just going to be more proactive. You're going to be very focused rather than falling apart because you don't know what's happened yet. You just want to find your child. And also, I think if Jen was hysterically crying, people would just be like, oh, look, she's trying so hard to seem distraught. So I don't think there would necessarily be any winning in this scenario. Did she ever go to school though?

I thought maybe she was just waiting for headphones before she kind of walked in on. Yeah. But she was just kind of, you know, traveling over in that direction. I looked the same as in the other morning. Okay. Sam. Basically, Jen tells the police that Stefan had taken Maddy to school and dropped her off at the car park of the Peace United Methodist Church, a half-mile, so about a 10-minute walk from Hunter Creek Middle School.

And apparently this is because Maddie was embarrassed to be seen in Stefan's car. Not completely unusual for a teenager. And during this initial conversation, Jen also says that she saw Maddie and Stefan that. morning this is very important that's not in this clip we just played you but she makes it very clear that she saw them that morning she even describes what maddie was wearing as if she physically saw her daughter leave the house

And Stearns tells police that Maddy got out of the car, told him she loved him. He said it back and then, as he drove off, he saw Maddy rifling about in her bag, as if she was looking for something. And that's very important later on, so keep that in your brain hole. And also, I will give you an image of me this morning as I was rifling through my bag, looking for my headphones. And then I realised that I had left them in the basket of a limelike.

Oh, no. And now they are in Woodgreen, where they will remain. Oh, no. I am not getting those back. Oh, miserable. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's sad. Anyway. despite a slow start. The next morning the police did move quite quickly. They cordoned off the gated community where Maddy lived and they assigned more than 50 officers from the Orange County Sheriff's Department to look for her. They even took sniffer dogs to her school.

and to the car park where Stearns said that he had dropped Maddy off. But the dogs didn't pick up a centre either location. Back at the police station, investigators interviewed the lodgers from the Soto house. but both were quickly cleared due to solid alibis. Then, the police tried to remotely locate Maddy's school laptop, but it was turned off. Thankfully, they at least had her phone.

Because remember, she'd forgotten it that morning. Or someone had. The problem was there wasn't really that much on the phone. There was nothing suspicious on her social media. They looked at, like, all of the games that she was playing, if she was interacting with anybody on there. Nothing. There was just one thing that stood out. Maddie had sent a text to a friend saying that when she turned 13...

She wanted to run off and live in the woods. And she had turned 13 just four days before she went missing. So the police wondered, had she run off after all? But soon, the police would make some discoveries that put these messages into sharp focus. As the heartbreaking words of a desperate girl, not those of a rebelling teen. Because soon the investigators learned that the last person to have seen Maddy alive, Stefan Stearns, also regularly shared a bed with the teenager.

Sterns' ex-girlfriend had come forward and informed the police that Sterns had told her that he regularly slept next to Maddie. Sterns said that Maddie was an anxious girl and that he would... cuddle her to sleep. Why would he tell his ex-girlfriend that, for a start? But... Maybe he was trying to play it off like he's this really good, caring guy taking care of this anxious child and that she trusted him and needed him. Stearns even told police how needy Maddie was. As if she was the one.

making him sleep with her yeah in like one of the police interviews when they bring up the sleeping arrangements he's kind of like we were trying to break her off the habit but she was just very needy she was very anxious like She needed someone to hold her to sleep and I'm just like, you fucking piece of shit. Stearns also allegedly told his ex, and this just gets fucking weirder and weirder.

Allegedly, Stearns told his ex that he would sometimes wake up with an erection when he was in bed with Maddie. Why would Stefan Stearns tell his ex this? Because... The first bit, right, where he tells her that he sometimes cuddles Maddie to sleep. I mean, the words just like curdle in my mouth. Okay, I think he's playing this like, I'm such a good guy. I'm like, I'm doing this really nice thing for this girl that needs me.

She's so attached to me, like I'm this good hero. Why on earth would you tell anybody this? I think it's Stefan Stern's pushing boundaries again. Yeah. Either... He's trying to upset this woman because I think we've come across this before, this idea of like saying very like extreme things to people.

particularly in a sexual way, to push boundaries, knowing that it's going to make them feel uncomfortable and then getting turned on or getting off on the discomfort that you can see in them. It's like flashing. The flashing is because you see the horror and the shock in another person's face and then that's what turns the person on. Like, is that what he's doing here? Like verbal flashing? I don't know. And or is he checking for reactions?

Perhaps is Stefan Sterns trying to normalise what he's doing by sleeping next to Maddie and getting an erection? Or maybe is he trying to pull this ex into this fantasy that he has? Or maybe he's just fucking stupid. Yeah, it literally could be any one of those in equal weighting. Exactly. I really don't know. But what screams out to me about this situation is can we really be expected to believe?

That a man who says this sort of thing to his ex-girlfriend in four years of a relationship with Jen Soto never said anything inappropriate about Maddie to her. So are we really expected to believe that Jen Soto had no inkling of the weird dynamic? And maybe, I don't know, I'm not saying that every situation in which a child is abused in a house.

typically the mother knows i'm not saying that's always the case i'm sure absolutely i believe there are situations in which the mother has no idea what's going on But I find it hard to believe with things like this and with more things that we're going to go on to talk about. When the police searched the Soto house, they found...

Some stuff. They found sex toys, they found lube, and they found a 9mm pistol, all in Stefan's room. Which, you know, nothing illegal there. Especially not in fucking Florida. And in Maddie's room, they found a pair of men's underwear, clearly belonging to Stefan Stern's. So, with their suspicions reaching a fever pitch, the police checked CCTV around the apartment building on the morning that Maddy vanished. And at 7.35am, Stefan Stearns can be seen stopping his car.

near the communal rubbish bins. He's very obviously throwing something away. And in the front seat of his car, there is a passenger wearing a green sweatshirt, clearly visible. It's Maddie. She slumped over in her seat, with her eyes closed and her mouth at an odd angle. Maybe she had just been asleep. But things were not looking good.

Investigators also tracked down CCTV footage of Stearns driving in the wrong direction to where he'd originally said he'd gone after dropping Maddy off at that church car park. After this, he was then spotted on CCTV at 1.30pm on Old Hickory Tree Road, changing his tyre. And then he was seen going back to the gated apartment complex to dump!

yet more rubbish bags in the communal bins. Needless to say, after seeing all of this, the police made a beeline for these bins. And in these bins, they found Maddie's backpack. The very same backpack that, if you will remember, Stefan Stearns claimed to have seen Maddie rifling around in as he drove away after dropping her off.

So if you left the backpack with Maddy when you dropped her off in the car park, Stefan, how's it in the fucking bins at the apartment? The police were now extremely suspicious of Stefan's stance. And requested access to both his and Jen's phones. And they both agreed. Though Stefan did tell the officers that he had accidentally factory reset his phone. the day before, so there might not be much on there. It's very hard to factory reset a phone. He is not the brightest man in the fucking woods.

Let's just say that. It's not very hard, but it's not something you can do accidentally. No, it's like you're going to factory reset your phone. You're going to lose XYZ. Do you want to continue? Okay, yes, he's such a fucking liar. And a bad one. The police made sure to do a real good deep dive into Stern's phone.

And his internet use. Which they're going to do anyway, but they're going to do it doubly when you tell them you've accidentally factory reset your phone. Yeah. And they pretty quickly found a Google Drive belonging to Stefan Stearns. In total, on his factory reset phone and on this Google Drive, the police discovered files upon files upon files of child sexual abuse material, including 1,700 images,

Featuring 13-year-old Maddy Soto and the 37-year-old owner of Phone and Drive, Stefan Stones. And there's no easy way to say all of this. But the police report states that these images included extreme close-ups of Maddy's breasts, vagina and anal opening. There were also images showing penetration. and evidence of sexual battery. These photographs of Stern and Maddie went back more than four years to when Maddie had been just eight years old.

And from the look of the room and the sheets in the photographs, officers could tell that these pictures had been taken inside the Soto home. Other images showing one of Jen Soto's female lodgers naked in the bathroom were also discovered. And data revealed that someone had recently made an attempt to delete them all. Meanwhile, Stearns was giving interviews about his missing Maddie.

So by the time the police sat down to speak with Stefan Stearns again on the 29th of February, 2024, they already knew what he had been doing to Maddie for years. And sadly, they were certain that this was no longer a missing persons case, but a murder inquiry. Let's listen to a clip from that very interview. It starts off with questions about the night of Maddie's 13th birthday party. And just FYI, some names have been redacted. So that's what the random silent bits are about.

So the party ends. Did you pick them up from the party? Someone must have dropped her off. Okay. She was there when I got there. She asked me to make sure. In the shower and did her bedtime routines, which she did, she was already on top of it, so... Okay. Um, what time do you think you got back in Kissimmee? Uh, what time I got into Kissimmee? Yeah.

Maybe 8.3 or something like that. Well, my memory is not super reliable on time, so I've been medicated for a little bit of a week. Okay, that's fine. What do you think that was important? Anxiety, mostly. I've been medicated on Advans since probably Saturday. Okay. What are the sleeping arrangements? He sleeps in her bed. Okay. Did she sleep in her bed Sunday night? No. I was just back. I'd been away for a couple months.

in the same bed together, so. To get some serious sleep, so she said go to that, and suggested that. The guest room upstairs had to be found that, so. So snuggle all the time? No, I'm surprised Jim will get to sleep at ease. Okay. So you say snuggle all the time, what does that mean? I'd like to be alone. She is extremely dependent. She does not like to be alone at all. She needs human presence around her. Catcha. Did you take any trash out from the apartment?

Was it night before I think I did? I'm not sure. I took the trash out at some point. But I can't remember. We'll show us the night before us, the morning of. Is there a common trash place or? Yeah. Okay. Is that where you took the trash out? Yeah. Okay. She had her backpack. Presumably her school computer was in her backpack. And you described her wearing a green jacket, some kind of dark colored shorts, and white Crocs.

Well, I can confidently tell you she did not go to school with her backpack. How's that? Because we found in the trash. So, Stefan, here's what I'm asking you and pleading with you is to dig down. Do some soul searching. Okay? Understand? Family's pleading with you. I'm pleading with you. that we need to find and it's as more time goes around goes by it's tough I have kids he's got kids

And there's little girls out there somewhere that we need to know where. And I really, really, really think you can help us. I mean... You want to get something off your chest. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I'm pleading with you. I don't know. I don't. What happened? I dropped her off. where I dropped her off on the road to school. So I still saw her. Have you and her ever exchanged, like, do you guys exchange text messages? How do you guys communicate?

FaceTime. She'll FaceTime me at night when I'm not around. Before I turn to say goodnight. From what I understand, you gave the deputy's consent to look through your phone. You did? Okay. And you voluntarily gave it to them so they could bring it here to do the extraction and stuff like that. Okay. What do you think was on the phone? Text messages. Text messages. Uh-huh. Details. All of stuff. Pictures? Yeah. What kind of pictures were on there?

training card pictures lightsaber pictures Disney pictures Do you have a Google account? Yeah Do you save pictures to your Google account? Sometimes. Or is it automatically? I know sometimes phones sync to a cloud. Yeah, I think it backs up to Google. Here's where I'm going to be brutally honest with you. There's a microphone. And I'm pretty sure you know what some of those pictures are about. You're a very intelligent person.

I don't want you to discredit yourself by saying you don't know about all the pictures that are on your phone. You understand what I'm saying? So do you want to add to the list of pictures? No. Sure. Should I be talking with a lawyer right now? I can't answer that question. My sole purpose right now is to see if I can find...

And I'm really hoping you can help me. I'd like to try to help. I feel like I should probably have a lawyer present at this point. So you're wanting an attorney? I think so. Okay. That can happen. I want to let you know you're not free to leave to be detained. Okay? Do you want to know what you're being detained for? Capital sexual battery and... Okay.

So we're going to step out. If you need anything, please tap on this door. Okay? And there's going to be detectives outside that will be able to. Ugh. It's like rage bait. listening to him speak honestly i i have listened to these interviews far too many times and i just i can't stand his voice i can't stand the pathetic weaselly way in which he just like he's like oh no that's not that's not what happened and they're like

I think the detectives, as you guys just said, I think the detectives in this case do a really, really good job. We hear some bits about like how they do some not so great things later in this episode. But I think those detectives who interviewed him, they are doing such a great job because they just give him enough rope. And he's just like, no, that's not true. And they're like, but Stefan, it is true, isn't it? Because this is all of the stuff we have on you.

It's just embarrassing and rage-inducing to listen to. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. So, this November... BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to reach out. Check in on your friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind the people in your life that you're there. Just as it can take a little courage to send that message or grab a coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while, reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too.

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Right now, get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription at babbel.com forward slash true crime. Get up to 55% off at babbel.com forward slash true crime. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com forward slash true crime. Rules and restrictions may apply. Anyway, during this interview, Stearns is also asked about what he did after dropping Maddy off at the car park. He obviously lies. He claims that he drove off north to run some errands. But remember...

His car had been spotted driving in the other direction, towards Kissemi. When the police pointed this out, Stefan Stern suddenly said that he'd just remembered. He'd actually forgotten his gate clicker, so he'd had to go back to the house first. The police pushed Stearns hard to reveal his movements that day, because while they have some CCTV footage, if they would have any chance of finding Maddie, dead or alive.

They needed to know where else he'd been. But after this interview, Stearns was charged with the sexual battery of a child under the age of 12 and possession of child abuse material, at which point he asked for a lawyer. and stop talking to the detectives. In another conversation with Jen Soto's lodgers, one said that she had heard noises coming from the Stearns' bedroom that night. The police noted that those noises would have had to have been...

Pretty loud to be heard through two closed doors and across a hallway. To the police it seemed odd that the lodger had heard that. But Jen Soto... hadn't heard anything and had seemingly been none the wiser for years. And maybe clips like the one we're about to play you from an interview that Jen gave to Fox. Made her look all the more suspicious. Well, um... Monday morning, we took her to school. We dropped her off close to school, across the street from a church, which is very...

It's right next to the school. She crossed the street and walked to school, what we thought walked to school. My boyfriend who drove her to school drove away at that point. It was seen on video footage that she hung out in the parking lot of the church for a few minutes and then got up and walked towards the school. But she never made it to school after that.

it's right next to the school. I don't know why she didn't make it. I don't know if something happened on her walk along the way or she got taken, but she never made it. Okay. Just to clarify, just to clarify the bit where Jen says. that there was CCTV footage of Maddie in the car park where Stern said he dropped her off is not correct. She was told this at the time. She was told that there was CCTV footage. I think the police made a mistake.

So she's not lying, but that turned out not to be true. So just to not confuse anybody, there was never ever CCTV footage of Maddie in that car park. So just ignore that bit. Did you notice how many times Jen Soto in that interview says we? We dropped her off at school. We drove her to school. We didn't do anything, Jen. You weren't there.

stephan sterns did it i feel like she continuously uses the word we to present like this united front of her and stephan like she's not willing to break with stephan yet and yes you can say By this point, Stefan Stearns hasn't been arrested. None of that is known to Jen. But she also knows she wasn't there. So what has he said to her to make her feel like they need to have this united front?

Yeah. Because all he did is drop her off. Why can't you just say my boyfriend dropped her off? I don't know. I think it's maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I do think it's weird. And also. obviously this is an audio format so unless you guys go and watch the clip which will leave all the links you were going to say and also i know what happens also that unless you guys are going to go watch the clips of this which highly recommend that you do

But let me just explain to you what's going on in this clip. You've got Jen sat, you know, facing the webcam, talking to the interviewer. And then you've got Stearns just sort of like ambling about in the background. it's really fucking weird if i was the newscaster i would be raging i'd be like get him out of the fucking shot it looks weird it looks sloppy it looks really really strange like

He sort of walks around for a bit and the clip is quite long and he does it for basically the entire clip. And then eventually he ends up just sort of placing himself on like the armrest of a chair. Just. weirdly in shot like at the edge of the like webcam screen i don't like i don't know it's very very weird some people hypothesize and i guess you could say this like

He's doing it to intimidate Jen, to make sure she doesn't veer off story. But like, that's not really the impression I get. I think... no i'd me either it makes me there's a trend on tiktok right where women will like come up to the camera and be like my boyfriend is gonna show you his lego and you're gonna be nice

And then like their like husband or whatever comes is like, this is the quickie mark that I made. And they're just in the background being like, just like, like making threatening faces. that's what it reminded me of the just sort of like but he's I I'm with you I don't think that's why he's doing it I think that because we've done interviews like that with news channels

I think that they're setting it up, they're testing whatever, and then they go live, and then he starts walking about, and then they can't do anything about it without stopping the broadcast. So they're just like... Like when that little baby walked in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, totally. I get that they can't stop it. I'm just like, he's such an odd person. Oh, yeah. Because in interviews like that, you can see yourself. And he's looking at the screen so he can see that he's in the shot.

But he remains in shot. And whatever his intentions are, if his intentions were to intimidate Jen to keep her sort of on track, I don't get the vibe from Jen that that's the impact it's having on her. It's like to her, she's not even clocking it. I don't get a vibe from Jen that like, oh, I'm scared of him. I better make sure I say the right things. She seems very calm. She seems very in control. She seems like she's got her story.

I don't feel like she's sort of anxiously looking at him for approval or anything like that. I would always be more inclined to think that if he wasn't in the shot, because if you watch her eyes when she's talking, she looks up. a lot which is what people do when they lie by the way yeah but if i couldn't physically see where he is i could have been convinced that he's standing in front of her computer threatening her from there and she's looking up to check

That I would, but you can see he's not doing that. And she doesn't look at him. She doesn't look at him. Okay. So, yeah. Weird, weird, weird. But then there's this. So you think that she's been taken against her will? I do think so, yes. As a mom, you know, what is your mother's intuition telling you right now? I'm trying to hope for the best, but I'm scared for her. I want her to be okay. I want her to be safe. I don't want her to come back harmed.

I just want her back, whatever that means. I just want her back. Whatever that means. What does that mean? I just want her back, whatever that means. If I was being nice, I would say, whatever ransom I have to pay, whoever I have to speak to, whatever I have to do, I will do it. if she's back and she's got no legs or something sure that's if i was on her side that is what i would argue and that's fair that is fair i think to me and maybe you know i'm very tunnel vision because i'm like

I don't have any evidence, right? I'll say this now. I don't have any evidence that Jen Soto was involved. And I also don't really believe that she was involved in the murder. I don't believe that, just to put that out there. But it really feels to me. like a woman who has resigned herself within days of her daughter going missing, that Maddie is dead. That's how it came across to me. And we all know the statistics. When a child goes missing, yes.

unfortunately by that point the chances are that that child is already dead but that is something that law enforcement and people who are on the outside can logically know typically the parents of missing kids cannot bring themselves to think the worst has happened. Sometimes even for weeks, months, years, you'll find the bedrooms of those children kept in immaculate condition in case the child comes home.

Lights will be left on in the house every night in case the child comes home. Jen Soto's already there. It's how I took that phrase. Now, maybe I'm reading too much into it. But that's how it felt. So, the police bring Jen in for another interview. And this was after Stern's cachet of child sex abuse images of Maddie had been found and he'd been arrested.

This interview starts with the detective being very direct. He tells Jen that he believes that Maddie is dead and says in no uncertain terms that he believes Stefan Stearns. Killed her. Yeah, so we've jumped a little bit. So that interview that you guys heard with Fox is pre-Stefan Stearns being arrested. And the police are obviously onto him. They've got the phone by this point. They've like, they know.

what he's done. And then they start to wonder about Jen. And that's when they pull her in for this interview, after Stefan Stearns has now been arrested. So I just want that to be in the context that Jen, by the time she's being interviewed, Now, in the clips that we're going to play you, she knows what Stefan Stearns has done sexually. And she knows he's been arrested for that. And the police are so sure that Maddie is dead.

Because by now, they had discovered even more CCTV of the day that Maddie disappeared. At 9.35am that morning, hours after claiming to have dropped Maddie off at school. Stefan Stearns was caught on CCTV driving into a multi-storey car park. There he had been seen backing his car into a space, getting out, opening the passenger side door and... carrying Maddy's body into the boot of the car. What the fuck? That is so unbearably stupid. She is so stupid. So stupid.

He literally picks, and yes, you can't tell if she's just drugged or dead, but come on. Picking her up. He doesn't pick her up and put her in the back and say, oh, she was asleep, I just wanted to lay her down. But they're in the fucking boat of the car. I also bet any money that it was one of those car parks that just scans your license plate and you don't have to actually do a ticket. There are cameras in there. Why did you think that that was a safe place?

Because he got run over on the head twice when he was eight, maybe. Okay, fair, fair cop. No, I mean, it's mind-boggling. I can only imagine what was going on with the police when they found all this. They must have been lying. This guy is fucking shooting himself. Fish is shooting itself in the barrel here. Like, it is staggering. So Jen is brought in to be interviewed by the police. She's told all of this. She's shown everything.

But she insists that she didn't know anything. And that until his arrest, she didn't believe that Stefan could have done anything wrong. And this interview with Jen, it goes on for like three hours. And it is so weird because randomly at points, Jen seems to defend Stefan. And you can see the detective becoming visibly frustrated. Now let's listen to a clip. And we're going to start with a comment.

that Jen says, just in case, you know, you guys don't catch it because the audio quality isn't fantastic, she says all the shit he did to her. Meaning, Stefan Stern's raping her child. At the time I thought he was truly heartbroken and not that he had done all this shit to her. Like, I look back at shit now and I'm just like, he was fucking lying, he was fucking baking.

What else has he been lying to me about? I know he's like a master liar manipulator because he's done it to his parents and he's told me and shown me the lives he's done to his parents. But I don't know why I never thought not me. The lines are about money. They're about where it's at when you're stealing.

what's he yeah all that um to his parents yeah he's stolen money from his parents um they used to have a few thousand dollars hidden in like a closet for emergency fund kind of thing and a few during covid he sold like He wanted RC cars. If he wants something, he's going to get it. No matter what. I started saying to him, like, I think they're focusing in on you. Like, we need to call your dad and I think we need to get you a lawyer.

I feel like they're focusing on the wrong person. And he kept saying the same thing. He kept repeating what I was repeating. They're focusing on the wrong person. How do you feel when you're sending these away? He didn't believe me. Like, when I told him, like, don't you see Brondix is closing down the house? They know something, or there's something, like...

They know something. Something's happening. They wouldn't be locking down the house this way if they didn't have suspicions of something. But I wasn't thinking. I don't know why I wasn't thinking him. I was just like, no, they've got the wrong guy.

Pretty jarring stuff. Firstly, let's talk about Jen's body language, because you can't see it, because this is the ear show. She definitely looks anxious, but sometimes Jen's got her arms... quite firmly above her head which i'm having demonstrated for me now as she's slouched down on a sofa and she looks quite chill and relaxed and she's literally doing that pose

As she is talking to detectives, hours after finding out what Stefan Sterns has done, and during an interview with the police, start by saying, we think he's killed your daughter. And she sat like this. I don't know, man. Then there's all of the flip-flopping. Over three hours, Jen goes from blaming Stearns to talking about how she'd encouraged him to get a lawyer. Before his arrest...

She seems to have been a lot more concerned with Stefan Stern's not being falsely accused of murder than she was about finding her missing child. You could say that Jen... Didn't know what Stefan Stearns had done at that particular point. And yeah, okay, maybe. But much like with the rooms in the house, I think it shows Jen's priorities. However...

Doesn't really fucking matter because any grace that we could have scraped off the floor and given to this woman went directly out the window when we heard this. That was still me. Under the assumption that... I think at one point... No, at one point you guys interviewed me and when you guys showed me the picture of her, I believed the sexual stuff, but I didn't want to believe that he had done anything equal to her. I'm like...

No, what if he did this stuff fine? But what if she's still missing out there? What if somebody took her? I still wanted to believe in his... I believed him. I believed his whole story. So I'm just like, I kept repeating that part. I'm just like, what if, what if she did that? What if she got abducted? What if she's missing? Um, but that was me assuming.

That you guys had the wrong guy. I wanted to think he was a good guy still, but clearly he's not. After everything you guys have told me and have shown me, I know he's the worst person on this face of the earth right now. We know he's a piece of- No. No. But you didn't know that then. I didn't. Then you offered a guy, a police suspect that suspected of kidnapping, abducting, assisting the disappearance. Offered him a lawyer.

It's not fine. I'm sorry. Just in case you didn't catch what she says. She says... When you guys showed me the pictures of her, meaning Maddie, I believed the sexual stuff, so the rape of her child by Stefan Stearns. But I didn't want to believe he'd done anything evil to her. What if he did this stuff fine, but what if someone else took her? To me, it seems very clear that Jen must have been aware of the sexual abuse.

She shows no signs of shock during these interviews, supposedly just after finding out what happened under her own roof with her child for years. Am I jumping to conclusions? It's worth saying... but I didn't think he'd done anything evil to her, implying that sexually abusing your child wasn't evil. And then saying, what if he did this stuff fine? What if someone else took her? Help me out here.

No, I agree with you. I do think she knows. Devil's advocate? Devil's advocate is, to me, that's just someone who is scrabbling around trying to cover themselves. Because she knows what's coming next. I think she's panicking and she is desperately trying to convince the officers interviewing her that...

Not only did she have nothing to do with it, she had no reason to suspect that Stefan Stearns had murdered her child. And that's why she's like, oh, like all of that stuff, but like he didn't kill her, you know? I think... I totally agree with you. I think what hit me the most about that is maybe less of what she actually thinks about the abuse. I think people can let a lot of things go.

in a lot of situations i think i do think she knew but i i i don't necessarily think she thought it was fine necessarily just based on that statement i think she's trying to cover her own ass yeah I honestly, I don't know what Jen Soto is thinking. I think the fine, okay. But I didn't think he'd done anything evil to her. It makes me feel like she knew. She had known for a long time and that she had come to terms with it and rationalized it in some fucked up way to herself.

Because I can't justify how any mother would think that her child being sexually abused by a grown man would be anything other than evil. And as for the murder of Maddie, after a long time during this interview... Jen starts to hazard guesses as to where Maddie's body could be. Obviously, the police are trying to get this out of her. And I can absolutely understand why the detectives are doing that. Here is this woman in front of them.

who they strongly suspect knew about the sexual abuse, so why would she not know about the murder or why would she at least not know where the body was? And Jen actually says at one point, if I name places, it's going to be wooded areas that I can think of. But he hasn't told me anything. We haven't discussed it. Why would you then name Wooded areas? Why would you think that? Why are you contemplating the death of your child?

To me, it is stark and staggering. I know the police have told her. We think Maddie's dead. Is denial not the first fucking stage of grief? No, that can't be true. She can't be dead. She's jumping to fucking murdered areas. Spoilers. That's where Maddy is. And somehow, things just kept getting worse.

After Stefan Stern's arrest, the police knew that they needed to collect all of the evidence that they could get their hands on. So they went to search his parents' home in Port North. Sterns had been spotted making an overnight dash there. after Maddy had disappeared. And when they arrived, well, officers were met with quite the bonkers scene. Stern's mum was standing outside the house crying uncontrollably and screaming Maddy's name.

And inside, the police found out what had upset Mrs. Stearns quite so much. It was a headless, limbless sex doll in Stefan's room. His mum... had actually thought that it was maddie's torso this time for the first time ever in a true crime podcast it was actually a mannequin yeah but imagine what a piece of shit you would have to be

For your own mother to think that you had the body of your girlfriend's missing daughter in your childhood bedroom. For that to be her first conclusion. Before the police had even proven that Maddie was dead.

They're not like, oh, you've arrested our son. He couldn't possibly have anything to do with this. The mum's like, oh, my God, Maddie, Maddie, Maddie. She's literally outside screaming Maddie's name because she thinks there's a fucking dead body in her house. Yeah, I'm with you, man. They know what you fucking is. Yeah.

Stearns' father even told police that he felt like Stefan Stearns had been rehearsing his story and rehearsing it on him because, quote, it was the same routine that he used during a media interview. Park. Yeah. Quite the shock for everybody, but no body. However, it wouldn't be long before investigators got the break that they needed. Stearns had told Jen.

that his car had had a flat tyre at around 1pm near Old Hickory Tree Road on the day that Maddy went missing. And this seems to have been true, because he was seen changing his tyre. A member of the public... later reported having also seen Stearns in the area doing something suspicious in the woods. So, officers went to search the wooded area nearby. And guess what?

There they found Maddy's body. The official cause of death was ruled to be strangulation. The police also found that in the weeks leading up to Maddy's disappearance, Stefan had searched the words. sevoflurane show up in drug tests. Sevoflurane is an anaesthetic that can be used to disorientate people and cause amnesia. And it's usually used in medical treatments. Now we don't know.

if this drug was found in Maddie's system because her autopsy has still not been released to the public. But the police's working theory is that Stearns had killed Maddie in the Soto home, in his bedroom, while the others had slept. before moving her body in the early hours of the morning. The discovery of Maddy's body shocked the community. A vigil was held that night near Madeline's school, and hundreds of people turned out.

Stefan Stearns was due to have his first appearance at Osceola County Court the day after Maddy's body was found. But, of course, he didn't show up. He sent a lawyer in his place. And on the 12th of March, just two weeks after Maddy had first gone missing, the Orange slash Osceola State Attorney's Office announced that it had filed 60 counts against Stefan Stearns. 8 counts of sexual battery on a child under 12. 5 counts of sexual battery with a child aged 12 to 18.

7 counts of lewd or lascivious molestation and 40 counts of unlawful possession of materials depicting sexual performance by a child. Upset? Yeah. Well, the sheriff's office social media accounts are about to somehow make this whole situation even worse. Because on the same day that the charges were released, the Instagram account for Osceolo County Sheriff...

Marcus Lopez made a post. The caption read, Great day with our seniors, followed by an emoji of a smiley face with a halo. But the image? It was a confidential crime scene photo. featuring the dead body of a young girl. And the clothes in the photo, the green hoodie and dark trousers, were consistent with what Madeline was believed to be wearing when she was reported missing. What the fuck?

How? How in the fucking fuck do you go on Instagram, write great day with our seniors, and then accidentally post a fucking dead body? Why is a dead body picture even on your phone in the first place? Yeah. I do not understand how this happened. Slag off GDPR all you want. Fucking hell. It is unbelievable. The post was... deleted very quickly and reporters were told that it had just been shared accidentally which i believe but my god jesus and that's not all the very same morning

that that post hit Instagram. Niva Rodriguez, a civilian sheriff's office employee, shared a selfie that featured Stefan Stearns to her personal Facebook page. She snapped it as he was being led out of jail. And then popped it on Facebook with the caption, If God's love has been poured out over your life, don't allow evil to keep you away from what he has prepared for you.

Which is just such fucking nonsense. Like, that doesn't even make sense. I know. It's a concept. I was going to be like, what does she mean? What does she mean? I don't get it. And, like, I accidentally deleted the link to the picture in here and I can't find it again. But basically it's like... A picture of her face, and like Stefan Sterns is in the background about to walk out of court. Yeah, bad news. Anyway, let's get back to the grim discoveries, because sadly, they just kept on coming.

On April 1st, 2025, Stefan Stearns' father was clearing out a storage unit when he found a hard drive and two USBs. On these devices, police found more than 35,000 images. of child sexual abuse material. Which answered the question of the sudden run that Stearns had made in the direction of Port North after Maddy vanished. He had clearly been looking to destroy evidence.

Police believe that he wanted to use his parents' Wi-Fi to log into his Google account in an attempt to delete as many images and videos as he could. And the only reason those hard drives were still in that storage unit... was that Stearns didn't have the clicker that he needed to get in there. I know. A question worth discussing that we haven't touched on yet is why?

Did Stefan Stearns murder Maddy Soto? He had been abusing her for years. Why did he kill her now? And that's just quite tricky to answer. Maybe it was an accident. But, given that she died by strangulation, that's quite hard to believe. It's the favourite of the, like, sex game gone wrong defence, which you can't use in this country anymore. Fucking good. Exactly. Thanks to, we can't consent to this.

And as we have said many, many, many times, to kill someone via strangulation is very difficult and takes a lot of sustained pressure for an extended period of time. Very, very impossibly rarely is that an accident. Absolutely. I just made my very first documentary appearance and I had to do some research into this for that.

And yeah, it's very, very difficult. It's like 10 seconds, 20 seconds maybe before somebody loses consciousness if you're strangling them, especially a child for sure. Let's say 10 seconds.

That pressure would need to continue to be applied for another four to five minutes before it would be fatal. So fuck off with your I accidentally strangled somebody. Do you know what? Whenever I was discussing the... the rough sex defense with anybody like just sort of socially in the pub because I'm normal I was always quite shocked by like okay but like what if you know someone actually is you know they do die accidentally because of a sex game wrong what about those I was like

The actual percentage of people that happens to is so minuscule. I cannot believe that that is the argument you are using, that like the whatever it is, like 0.2% of cases. that like that means the law should not be passed for the 99 others what the fuck is wrong with you we're not that fragile it's not that easy to just kill somebody like

Okay, yeah, like you say, there may be one tiny fraction of cases where that happens. But again, my question is like, what are you fucking doing that killed another human being? I just I cannot imagine it maybe I'm just a fucking prude and I can't imagine enough of like what people get up to that they're accidentally killing each other while having sex but no fuck off it's just a non-starter for me

Maybe, perhaps, Stefan Stearns had murdered Maddie because she was threatening to reveal what he had been doing to her for the past four years plus. And maybe she had just turned 13 at a very pivotal age. She would, no doubt. have started talking with friends about boys and crushes and all that sort of stuff. So could it be that this was the point that Maddie started to develop a clear framework for how fucked up?

what Stefan Stearns was doing. Or maybe even realising that what was happening to her, even if she didn't have the emotional language to identify it as abuse, maybe she realised that what was happening to her wasn't happening to everyone else. Absolutely. And maybe she was starting to become a bit more forceful. Maybe she started saying no. Maybe she had started pushing Stefan Sterns away. Or...

Perhaps it was because, as some have speculated, Maddie was pregnant. Now, we can't confirm this because investigators have never ever confirmed this theory, and also, like I said, the autopsy has never been publicly revealed. But I have listened to police interviews with some of Maddie's school friends, and they seem to indicate a change in her behaviour around the time that she died. She was suddenly wearing very, very baggy clothes.

and presenting as highly irritable when she missed her period or when it was late. Now of course that isn't proof that Maddie was pregnant. Of course these things could also have just as likely been symptoms of the sexual abuse that she was suffering. But we also know that she had been being abused for four years. So for her to change that behavior so notably right before her death, maybe she did know she was pregnant or maybe she suspected she was pregnant.

Maybe she told Stefan Stearns that night and he thought that this was his only way out. I don't know. There are even suggestions that that whole, like, I'm going to run away and live in the woods text that Maddie had sent. had actually been planted by Stefan Stearns, building some sort of alibi because he knew he was going to kill Maddy. I don't know if I totally believe that. It's not that smart anyway. It is quite a stupid thing to have done if he did do it.

But like, I don't even think he would have thought that far ahead. I don't think thinking ahead is something that he's capable of. On April the 24th, Stefan Stearns was indicted on a first degree murder charge by a grand jury and prosecutors made it clear.

that they wanted the death penalty. Stearns' lawyer filed several motions arguing that the death penalty would be unconstitutional. He also filed motions seeking to suppress the evidence found on Stearns' phone, arguing that it had been unlawfully seized. The lawyer argued that the police made no attempt to get a warrant and that Stearns wasn't given a choice, which isn't true. Stearns consented to hand over his phone because he thought that he had successfully got rid of everything. You can't.

And lastly, his lawyer claimed that Stearns was under the influence of a prescription anxiety drug at the time, that his phone was seized, and that he hadn't eaten that day. I mean... He didn't have loads to work with, so give it a go, I guess. Yeah. But thankfully, none of these attempts to weaken the case worked. The judge refused to have the evidence thrown out. However, the case would also never go to trial.

because Stearns had been offered a plea deal. And when I found out he'd been offered a plea deal, I was like, why the fuck? I'll go on to talk about why in a second, but basically Stefan Stearns, like, ignores the plea deal offer.

and waits to see what the judge's decision is about the phone evidence. Because I think if the judge had said that the phone evidence was going to be thrown out, and it was really only on the phone evidence and the Google Drive that there were pictures of Maddie, if that had been thrown out, then...

he may have had a chance of getting away with it at trial. And then when the judge is like, no, no, the phone evidence is fine to be entered, then he takes the plea deal. And he took it to avoid the death penalty. This happened, as we said, this year in 2025. And it was the second high profile case this year that ended like this. Because remember, the other one was, of course, the Idaho student murders case with Brian Koberger.

So I just wanted to explain, in case anybody is confused, about why in two cases where the prosecution had so much compelling evidence, did they give out plea deals? Well, there's a few reasons. Firstly... It's a lot cheaper. These plea deals mean no trial, no appeals ever, and no expensive death row process, with all the appeals that that entails separately.

Also, it is actually becoming harder and harder to actually execute anyone in the US. Pharmaceutical companies are refusing to sell the drugs needed for the lethal injection to the state. Which again... drags out the situation so with the plea as unsatisfactory as it feels the prosecution used the death penalty as a threat to basically just shut the whole thing down

And I think that while on one hand I appreciate that it is efficient, like they're getting it done, we know these men are guilty, they're going away, they're never going to appeal. And as we said with the Brian Koberger case, in a way it's good. While the families were very upset, and I understand why, they're not going to have to sit through years of endless appeals while they have to listen to this man fucking lie.

But I do also think it's potentially dangerous, this road that prosecutors are going down, because if you can't actually use it, if you can't actually use the death penalty, having it there as a sort of purely used bargaining chip. is increasingly leading to victims' families feeling like they're being lied to and used, which is what we saw with Brian Koberger. And I think that destroying that trust between victims' families and...

the judicial system and the prosecution. While I understand they're like the ends justify the means, I think that's a dangerous road to be heading down. I agree that it has problems. However... Trials are very expensive and they're very time consuming and there aren't that many judges, etc. I can see if we just lived in a world where nothing mattered.

And the only thing that affected anything was right and wrong. Then I would be like, no plea deals for anyone ever. But I think I can understand why it exists as a mechanism. It's tough. Yeah, it's really hard because I think I can also understand why victims' families are like, we have the death penalty in this state. I live in this state. I support the death penalty. This hideous thing has happened to my family.

I want that man. You have so much evidence that we've spent fucking years working with you to collect. I want that man put on trial and I want him executed. And then when the prosecution turn around and say, we're going to use it as a way to just make this go away. I understand why, totally understand why. And I said it with the Brian Koburger case, I think it was the right thing to do for the families, whether they were able to see that in that moment or not.

But if that continuously happens and that's always seen as the bargaining chip because people know they can't actually do the death penalty really anymore, I can understand why people are just going to start to feel like then why the fuck have we got it? It's a complicated one. But yeah, that's what happened. And so, on the 21st of July, 2025, more than a year after Maddy Soto's death, Stefan Stearns appeared in a Kesimi courtroom for his sentencing.

He had pleaded no contest to first-degree murder and guilty to the 20 counts of sex crimes. He said to the court, I have prayed to God countless times to trade places with her, to take me instead and unfortunately that's... Just not how he works. I apologise for all the pain. Fuck off. He was sentenced to 21 life sentences without the possibility of parole. So Stefan Stearns will never.

walk free now that we're done with him finally before we wrap up this episode let's talk about jen soto and the role that she played in the abuse and murder of her daughter I will say, as I said already in this episode, I don't think that Jen was involved in Maddie's murder. I don't think so. But I do think that she knew what Stefan Stearns was doing to Maddie. Maybe not at first.

I don't think it started off that way, but I think she discovered over time, or at least realized over time. And I think she allowed him to keep Sterns around. Now, some people have said that she's not the smartest person. And I don't know. In the interviews I've watched with her, she doesn't come across as particularly dumb. I think she's quite articulate.

She seems to be quite able to control herself. She seems to be able to take charge, take the lead. She certainly doesn't seem like some shrinking like wallflower. I really don't get that impression from her. I also don't buy the narrative. That in this case, Jen Soto was like this poor abused woman who couldn't stop this monster that she'd let into her life. No, and I think, I think what we don't want to admit collectively as a species.

is that this sort of thing goes on a lot more than any of us want to admit. Absolutely. It never happens overnight. No. And when Jen Soto was told what the police had found on Stearns' phone... She didn't really seem that shocked or repulsed. When she was shown the images, she even pretended not to recognise Maddie. Or Stearns. Or even her own house.

Maybe she was just in denial from the shock. Maybe. But how naive do you have to be to allow, nay, encourage, your teenage daughter to share a bed with your boyfriend? She says that she allowed it because she trusted Stefan and that he treated Maddy as if she was his own daughter. And look, I'm sorry, but...

I feel like she sacrificed Maddie for what she wanted, which was to keep this relationship going with Stefan Stearns. Because this idea of like, I allowed it because I trusted Stefan Stearns. Okay, sure, fine. But safeguarding is not about like, oh, I'm sure it's fine. It's about thinking about the worst possible scenario, which hopefully you would do as an adult and as a parent, as a mother. But I also understand like people.

People want to think the best of the person that they're with. I appreciate that as well. But I just feel like how in four years did you not know that anything was wrong? I don't understand that. And why would you take such a risk? I don't know. I just think it's absolutely horrific. And contrary to what she initially tells the police.

which was that they only ever slept in the same room a few times, Jen Soto would later admit that she actually couldn't remember how many times she had let Madeline sleep with Stefan alone in his bedroom. So I don't know. I don't know if I can find it in me to... give jen soto too much grace because maybe she made some mistakes maybe they really were just oversights on her part but maddie was a child

When the abuse started, she was eight years old. And she was her daughter. And she was totally dependent on her mum to protect her. Wasn't Maddie's decision to let this man into their lives. Jen Soto made that decision, and she should have been looking after her fucking child. And also, why, when all of this was going on, did Maddie not feel like she could tell her mum anything?

Now, I appreciate, obviously, it's a very difficult topic for children to bring up. She may not even have had the vocabulary to say what was going on. But like, I don't know. And yes, of course, you can also say that Maddie was probably manipulated by Stearns. Maybe he twisted things to make her feel like she couldn't tell her mum. Or did Maddie not tell her mum because she knew that Jen knew what was going on? And it all just become this weird normalised situation. I don't know.

And look, I don't want to sound like I'm just coming down hard on Jen Soto. Because yes, I also think where the fuck was her dad? And I get it. It's hard because like these people have.

lost so much like I don't think Tyler Wallace is a bad man the minute that he found out Maddie was missing he drove 14 hours through the night to get from Texas to Florida like I'm not saying he's a bad person I'm not saying he's even a bad dad But it's so hard when situations like this happened that it's not just a case of despicable child sexual abuse and murder, but of rampant neglect.

Like, Maddie was this beautiful, kind, generous 13-year-old girl with her life ahead of her who was failed by every single adult in her life. And, like, maybe that sounds harsh, but, like... I don't know how you can look at a picture of her and not feel that level of rage. On the 22nd of February this year, 2025, on what would have been Madeline's 14th birthday, the community came together for another vigil.

They gathered to honour her memory at Lakefront Park in St Cloud. Over the year, families have been driving up to the place where her body was found and placing stuffed animals there. And for the vigil, these were all collected. and more than a hundred were displayed together on a wall as a symbol of the community's support. Maddy's friend read a poem which ended, But I feel okay knowing you're doing fine above.

I'll try not to cool. I'll try not to shed. But I'll always be lucky that you are my friend. Ugh. Yeah. It's horrible. Yeah, truly. And yes, I for one am glad that we didn't have to sit through a fucking trial listening to Stefan Sterns. Yeah, I know what you mean though. It's such a hard, like, transparency issue.

But, you know, I can also understand... Practically. Practically, administratively, taxily, that money's better spent elsewhere, but it's tricky emotionally for sure. Yeah. So that's it, guys. Thank you for listening. i don't know go punch something like a wall or in honor of stefan stern's like some sort of warhammer figurine i don't know just go for a run you'll feel better or do that and we will see you next week for something It's probably just as rage-inducing. Goodbye.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. Of the 880 men.

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