Welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. I'm Scott Durfey, and I have a couple of guests with me today, one that you're pretty accustomed to. Hi, Dave. Yeah. Probably bored with. Not even close. David Durfey, how are you David? I'm good, Scott. I'm good. This is my, my last podcast for a while. Oh man. Yeah, that. For a while we'll. That brings up. Pick it up when I get home from Australia and I'll have lots of stories to. Sure. Yeah, that'll be awesome,
too. I can tell you about spiders and all kinds of things. Yeah, we can't wait. I experience in Australia. For sure. I hope to have at least one kangaroo story. Yeah. Maybe a koala. For sure. Yeah. Maybe a wombat. I don't know. That's my extended knowledge of Australia. Yeah. And koalas. They have koalas and all kinds of things that I hope to see. Yeah, I hope you do too. Well, so yeah, we're gonna miss Dave. This has been an amazing experience over the last few
years and thankful to you, Scott. Man, I can't tell you this kind of become the Holy of Holies. Yeah, for me, too. This little room and all the yeah, this little room does kind of facilitate a lot of growth and healing. I worked a fifth step with the Young man here just recently and I'll be doing another one You know what's the fifth step steps where we talk about all that that's our personal inventory Okay in alcoholics
anonymous the four steps. We take a personal inventory We acknowledge everything we've done wrong. We know and things that have done, too We just it's just an inventory and then we share that where do you make the list where? And step four? Yeah, four. Make a list of all the people that you hurt and offended. No, that's eight. Step four is made a personal inventory. That's where I hear a lot of people get hung up is on eight. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, eight, four and five
too. If somebody doesn't do four and five, they won't get sober. And it's the same with eight and nine. Eight and nine are tied together, but that's not the purpose of our podcast today. I'm super excited to have my sweetheart with us today. You know, we talk about the holy of this room kind of being, I hate to call it a holy of holies, but it does have a sacred feel to it. But when Deb comes in this room, that elevates. Yeah, for sure. That even gets higher.
Also gets better looking. And that was my next comment, for sure. As handsome as Dave is, to have Deb sitting across from me for the next year and a half, and maybe even beyond that, maybe we'll be a trio then, who knows? But I'm really looking forward to it. Hi, Deb. Hello. Hi, everyone. Say hi to everybody, will you? Hello, everyone. Yeah, Deb's been a little bit, I don't know if I'd use the word apprehensive. Oh, you could use apprehensive, for sure. A little
bit apprehensive to do. You wanna tell us why you're doing it? So I, in the past I just kept saying no, absolutely not. No, no, you and Dave would do a great job. But I think it's because Dave and I have the same initials. Deb Durfey, Dave Durfee, I think that's kind of what happened. That's gotta be it. DD. Yeah. We're the DDs. No, I really did resist a lot. And when you said, you know what, pray about it. And I even was
resistant about that. But when I finally did pray about it, I had an overwhelming, a very overwhelming feeling of you can do hard things. And I also tell my institute, our institute kids. No growing in the comfort zone and no comfort in the growing zone. So just so you know, I'm very uncomfortable. Looking forward to growth. That's good. A lot of growth. A lot of growth. Well, super excited to have you, sweetheart. So this week, we will be releasing. This is our
this is our final episode of season three. We'll begin season four when Deb and I begin recording, hopefully next week. But we began season one, episode one, I believe, was actually on Easter. And so how appropriate, Dave, that here we are. You know, first shall be last and the last shall be first. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So we started this way. I'm going to finish this way. So grateful
that Deb's going to continue. But yes, Scott, and that seems to be appropriate because I think the heart and center of everything that we do on this podcast is just that one needful thing that, you know, our faith in Jesus Christ and really understanding His life. There's, I think, such an important part of our faith in Christ. It's not really enough if you want the faith of power in Christ to just know that He died
for you and that He was resurrected. I mean, if you really want faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Atonement, you have to study it. You have to. Because there's a spirit behind it. It's not necessarily knowing the facts about
it. It's the spirit that comes by by studying it and by Having a vision and and kind of seeing it with the eye of faith You know what he what he actually did and the last week of his life this You know this Easter season that we're celebrating is is really the major focus of all the gospel writers It's interesting, Scott, that, for example, the Gospel of John, 40 % of the Gospel of John, more than 40 % of the Gospel of John is spent on the last week of the Savior's life. Now, the
Savior lived 33 years. Out of 33 years, He spends almost half of His Gospel just describing the last week of the Savior's life. That's important, and John wrote for the saints. You know, Matthew wrote for the Jews, and Mark was for the Romans, and Luke for the Gentiles, and John, he wrote to the church. And here we are at the church. The Gospel of John was for us, and he spends half of his Gospel describing the last week.
I think that's really an important aspect of my faith, is understanding the week of Easter. And I think that if we would all study it as individuals and families, it would strengthen our faith in Jesus Christ, which leads to repentance, which is the beginning of the doctrine of Christ. So, anyway, I'm really thankful that we started that way, and I'm thankful that we're going to end that way. Talking about the events of the last week. I've been thinking about this a lot
over the last couple of days. This episode being together, you know, kind of for the last time in a year and a half for a year and a half. And obviously there's some emotion attached to that, too. But where the real emotion for me comes as we prepared. you know, have been preparing for this podcast. And I think the way we prepare for this podcast is the way we should be preparing
for life. It's just really, as you said, diving in and really making a study of not just what he said, not just what he did, but maybe even, you know, accepting the invitation to look unto me in every thought like we read about in Doctrine and Covenants 6, but then to follow that up to, you know, fill the prints of the nails in my hands and my feet and to actually go there. You know, we've talked right from the very beginning,
David, gratitude. Can really grow our desire to follow him to be like him and I think it's through that study And that's the beginning of everything Scott it all comes down to desire Really? I mean the reason people do what they do is because of desire and yeah If in fact as I have learned for myself at least for me It's true that gratitude is always the beginning of desire and if I lack if I lack desire it's because I can go back to the source. I lack gratitude.
And if I can change that, I can change my desires. That's true for me. I've seen that be true for other individuals. I think that's an absolute principle and fact, an absolute truth. So studying the last week, it ought to fill us with gratitude, which then will increase our desires to be disciples.
So, you know, this is this is awesome and I know it takes time to do that and people need to slow down and Spend maybe a little less time focusing upon the worldly aspects of Easter and to really focus upon the the spiritual aspects of Easter That would make such a difference all the difference, right? That would probably make all the difference. I love how and Deb's had a lot of comments around this maybe W you'd chime in here, but, um, we, uh, we just finished conference, general conference,
April, 2025 just came to completion. Wow. Right. I mean, you know, all the, all the stuff that we talk about in the podcast, David, um, was talked about in conference, uh, and, and, you know, with even greater authority and conviction as it's coming through. But, you know, the things that we learned there, one of the main things that was really emphasized there was our worshipful
attitudes around the Easter season. Deb, you've had some experiences with that this year, some internal experiences, maybe some external experiences. Share those with us. Yeah, about three years ago, I was asked to give a talk in sacrament meeting about Easter. And there were two of us that spoke in church and the gentleman that spoke before me took the entire meeting. I had two minutes to deliver my message at the end and I I I sat there and I thought wow this is really
sad because I really learned a lot. And then I just push pause and reflected on what a gift that was for me to dig and to search and and to really look at. the events of Easter and the traditions of Easter and the Holy Week and the Savior's life. And each year since, and even we had the opportunity to go to Israel and walk on those holy grounds, oh my word, and to be able to be on the Sea of Galilee and just feel,
touch, and I'm more of a feel person. You'll notice I am not a huge word person and so I have a hard time sometimes articulating exactly what I'm feeling but the things that were so amazing for me in from that moment up until even this Easter is just the fact that This Easter season, I have been very present and intentional on paying attention to those bright colors that come out of that dead ground. Paying attention to the blossoms that come out on the tree and how everything
points to Christ. Everything. And I just I love how on that we were able to. Right, go. Listen. to conference and every single speaker testified of Jesus Christ, talked about his life. And I remember in April of 2023 when Bonnie Corden talked about never give up the opportunity to
testify of Jesus Christ. And I just think what a gift and what an opportunity to not only sit at the feet of these disciples and prophets but to feel that the Holy Ghost testify to me and then to be able to even look forward to Holy Week. I mean in this Sunday is Palm Sunday and my intention is to hyper focus on the events of Palm Sunday. Anyway, it's been, I've had a lot of feels. That's really awesome. That's sweet,
Deb. I'm so thankful for the church and the little course of correction that President Nelson has made in the church in celebrating Easter. You know, I have felt that for so many years that we do such a great job, you know, celebrating Christmas, but Wow, we haven't been very good celebrating Easter, and that's changing in the
church, which I'm so grateful for. I think it really all started maybe with President Hinckley's statement years ago, you know, when he said that there would be no Christmas if there would have been no Easter. And that kind of began the ball rolling, and I think every year we get a little better. I'm really thankful that every day of this coming week, beginning with the triumphal entry on Sunday, Palm Sunday, that we have videos
to watch and references to study. I know I used to make my own and hand them out this time of year to my classes and faculty, and that's all done. done now on the Church's website, which is so, so great with videos to accompany those events. So we are doing so good. And there, you know, there's another tradition. Let's talk about just Easter in general for a minute here, Scott. I think one thing people always wonder, a question I used to always get asked, is why is Easter
on a different weekend every year? Why is the date, you know, Christmas is always on the 25th of December, but Easter is always on a different day every year. And the reason that is, is because of, we follow, to try to be a little more accurate, we follow the Jewish lunar calendar, which is determined by the moon and not the Roman solar calendar. And so based upon the lunar calendar, Easter is always the first Sunday after the first full moon after spring equinox. So spring equinox,
right, is March 21st. First full moon after that, whenever that is, and then the first Sunday after that. Always is when we celebrate Easter. And there's some Eastern Orthodox churches and a few other religions, they have a little bit different Easter because they go by the Julian calendar, and we go by the Gregorian calendar. So some people might find it strange why Easter is listed twice. their calendar, if they look at it, and one is for the Orthodox Eastern religions, which
go by the Julian calendar. Caesar, Julius Caesar, started a calendar, which is not as accurate as the Gregorian calendar, which Pope Gregory started in about 1500. And anyway, so it's kind of interesting to understand that, but I I just really want us today to get into the last events of Easter and to celebrate it as a week, not as a day, but Easter season. First time I heard the term Easter season was Elder Holland in general conference about seven, eight, nine years ago.
He said we should celebrate it as a season. True. I have a friend that I grew up with. You know who they are probably, but his family was Greek Orthodox. He wasn't Buddhist. And so they celebrated Orthodox Easter. Yeah. And it was incredible. You know, some of the Greek Orthodox religions have really great Easter traditions. And one of them, which I wish my own family would adopt, is that on Easter, and then for 40 days after, that whenever they greeted someone, they would
say, he is risen. And the other person would say, indeed, he is risen. That was the formal way they would greet one another, or truly, he is risen. And they would say that for 40 days from the time of Easter and the resurrection until his ascension. 40 days, you know, when He came back and then 40 days ascended. They would say that for 40 days. That would be the kind of the formal greeting. And I thought, man,
I wish my own family could do that. You know, they would say, Christ is risen or He is risen. Indeed, He is risen. We're gonna practice that, Scott. 40 days after Easter. I'm down for 40 days. And then, you know, for 40 days before Easter, the Protestants and Catholics celebrate Lent, where they sacrifice something, give up something, thinking about the coming of Easter. I mean, you know, if you did that 40 days before
and 40 days after, you got three months. Almost three months of an Easter season and I just wish We could expand it even from a week. Yeah two weeks Yeah of celebrating Easter. We do Christmas. Yeah, but we start celebrating Christmas now after Halloween Yeah, but it's not we don't celebrate it. We commercialize it I know I don't I don't well that never happened. We start listening at least to music. Yeah Okay, you do. Yeah, I do right after Halloween Deb does too, actually.
I've actually had Christmas songs in my head. Yeah, yeah. Well, so, you know, the traditions, traditions of Easter and all of us should just kind of review that and try to make our own family Easter traditions that would point our minds and our hearts to the Savior. Agreed. Well, Dave, then I think maybe a way, I don't know the best way, but a way to kind of approach our recognition, even our worship, even our being with Easter,
beginning Sunday. I mean, it's beginning for all of us, probably has quite a bit ago, you know, especially with conference, general conference just having passed. But Dave, I think as we prepare, I remember a Palm Sunday, Deb and I went, we were in Dallas, Texas at a friend's home. They're very, very strong. religious Protestant people and we went with them to a Palm Sunday experience. That was just an amazing experience for us, Deb,
wasn't it? And then... I love how they teed up the entire week with that celebration, that worship of Heavenly Father and Jesus because of what He did beginning on that Palm Sunday. So maybe we just take each day, kind of go through each day of the Holy Week. You've got a lot of insights for us. I think Deb does as well. So maybe let's just, can we just? Yeah, let's start with Sunday. Palm Sunday, so we call this triumphal entry the triumphal entry. Yeah wipe wipe home. What's
the poem? Yeah, so the palms this is really cool this and you know and I knew this but to have a Physical learning experience with this we had that in Texas when we were there on Palm Sunday. We waved the palms You know, so what this is, so Palm Sunday, the waving of palms is a way to recognize royalty. Yeah, they would wave them and they would lay them in front of his white donkey. It was like rolling out the red carpet. Yeah. So they'd place down these palm leaves.
in front of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a white donkey, which was a kind of a reenactment of David. And it was fulfilling of Zechariah's prophecy too. Prophecy as well as a reenactment of the King David as he rode into Bethlehem and established his kingship over Israel. It was symbolic of all of that. I also don't think it's
a coincidence. That a palm is a palm Like if you think of the palm of the hand if we wave our hands I mean there's things we do with our hands and our palms in the church as well waving or raising or I That just came to me. Well, that's what's the scripture. I have I have engraved thee upon the palms of my hands Isaiah in the Book of Mormon And we sustain and we testify with our palms as one. Yeah. That's awesome.
That's great. Many of these people in this procession, as they witnessed, there would have been a throng of them. This is also Passover, Scott and Deb. And there would have been millions of people in Jerusalem at this time who have come back for Passover. They're celebrating Passover, you know, this week. as will all of the Jews all over the world celebrate Passover this week.
And anyway, as he comes in with all of these people, and I don't know how many were actually in the parade or following him or lined the streets, but there would have been probably thousands. And many of them are raising their palms and... and laying palms and celebrating this, and they are shouting, Hosanna! You know, they're, Hosanna, save us! They're recognizing Him as the Savior
and Redeemer. But by the end of this week, there will be another crowd, and maybe some of the same people in that crowd who are chanting, crucify Him. crucify him. So what happened in that week to change him from a celebration and Hosanna to the end of the week seeking to destroy his
life, chanting crucify him? I just think that's a fascinating way to kind of couch this last week, how it starts and then how it goes downhill and how it ends, and really not downhill, because this was all, of course, the way God had designed it would go, and Jesus kind of makes that happen by calling out the Jews, and this is where all hell really, really breaks loose by the end of the week. So Sunday he comes and rides in triumphal
entry. He's probably at the evening staying with Mary and Martha and Lazarus in Bethany or nearby. It's assumed that he's staying with them. There are probably many others of his friends and family who are staying there or in the area, including his mother Mary. His father Joseph has probably passed. and would probably be one of the first to greet Him when He dies on Friday. Joseph,
the carpenter. Anyway, so Jesus is staying in Bethany, and every day He's going to go into Jerusalem except Wednesday, and Wednesday is probably just a day of rest. On Monday, as He, with some of His disciples and followers, goes into Jerusalem, just outside of Jerusalem. Bethany, by the way, is about six miles south of Jerusalem, so this would be quite a walk, really. They'd start early in the morning in order to get there.
They passed a victory, and I just think it's so interesting that Jesus, everything Jesus touched, you know, He healed. He was always healing things. We only know one thing that he killed, and that was a victory. And it was a powerful, powerful symbol. So he curses his victory, and the reason he curses it is because there's no fruit. It's bearing no fruit. This is the spring of the year.
There's probably no blossoms on it, really. It's not that it's too early for there to be really fruit, but it's just he knows it's going to be barren. He says something about that, and then he curses it. And when they go back near the end of the day or the next day, they comment
that the tree is dead. Really like what he says about that that You know that we are not we're not born to be fig trees Baron fig trees, we're not born to be shade trees you know we are we are to be examples and doers of the word and to be To be bare to be bearing fruit to be to be fruitful So anyway, that's that's what happens on Monday and then he goes to the temple immediately Arriving in Jerusalem and and there they are
Because it's Passover again. There's the money changers because people from the Jews have come from all over You know hundreds of miles from all over the Middle East to celebrate the Passover and there's the money changers the Jewish leaders making money off those travelers by Trading in their money for temple coins It's just so corrupt and Jesus hates that and so for the second time second recorded time I Think he actually did
it every Passover. I just don't think it's recorded, but I think he every Passover he did this and he turns over the tables and he condemns this practice, and this was maybe the third strike for the Jewish leaders. So that really started the despise of the Jewish leaders. They had been trying to kill him really since Lazarus' resurrection, you know, that miracle. They knew then that it was not going to be enough to just argue with
him or debate him or try to disprove him. The only way they were going to be able to overthrow his authority and the threat that he was. The only way they could put down the threat to their establishment was to kill him. So really they were trying to not just kill Jesus. But they were trying to kill Lazarus. Yeah. And this had been really their their plan. They had a plan
and they were ready to put it into place. So it's not just that Jesus overthrew some money changers tables that made them want to kill him. They had been really actively planning this for the last six months. Yeah, trying to put it together. And why would they wanting be wanting to kill Lazarus, Dave? Well, because he was that he was. physical evidence. He was physical evidence that Jesus was a God. Because he had been risen from
the dead. Jesus had intentionally waited three days to do that when the spirit would leave the body according to Jewish beliefs. Wow, what a miracle of miracles. Lazarus was so so there
was a conspiracy to kill both of them. I want to back up just a little bit I want to read from Matthew chapter 21 This is beginning in verse 12 and Jesus went into the temple of God and cast all all them that sold and bought in the temple and Overthrew the tables of the money changers and the seats of them that sold doves And he said unto them it is written my house why doves because this was an offering for the poor the poor You know that if you didn't have
a lamb you could offer some doves So, you know the and if you didn't have a dove with you you would come to Jerusalem and you wouldn't through the money The doves so that you would have that the Jewish leaders ripping people off So he's then he says in my house my house is called the house of prayer and you've made it a den of thieves OK, I mean, so there's the story. That's not
where the story ends. Right. So we think of this this Jesus who has had this experience and some people I've even seen it portrayed on film and whatnot that he was really angry. I don't think that that's how he was. I know Jesus would have been in total control. I think his anger and my anger are not. They're just different experiences. And so he has this experience. But then in 14, and the blind and the lame came to the temple and he healed them. So it wasn't a destructive
Jesus. It was a healing Jesus. And even what may appear to be destructive was healing. It was healing the house of the Lord, changing it from a den of thieves to the house of the Lord. It's the only time really that we get some idea that Jesus was the wrath of Jesus. I think Jesus was angry, but not the way we would be angry. He wouldn't feel what we were feeling, and he certainly wasn't out of control in his emotions or his actions. But this is the wrath of Jesus,
and it's evidence of what he feels. about the house of the Lord, or the house of Elohim, the house of God, and it's so sacred to Him. And for these people to come in and bring animals and turn it into some mall or courtyard where people are making money and not even honestly,
it infuriates Him, really. This causes me to self -reflect on what I take into the temple because sometimes I am in a hurry when I enter the temple and sometimes Not necessarily maybe a resentment of some crazy driver that got in my way. So now I'm gonna be late for whatever session I'm trying to hurry to or whatever. Yeah, but you know what? It really helps. I mean that makes me self -reflect on what I treating the temple in a holier way. Are you taking in commercial,
worldly thoughts? Yes, absolutely. It's not just what you so much wear into the temple, but the thoughts and emotions that you have going into the temple. Hundred percent. Yeah. That's good. If you're going to go to the house of the Lord, He wants it to be humble, and He wants it to be holy, and He wants it to be honest. And then He does those healings in the temple, right, on Monday? and they return back to Bethany. So
we don't have a lot recorded on Monday. On Tuesday, Scott, we have so much recorded, especially in the book of Matthew, on what he does on Tuesday. I mean, we have where he, in chapter 23, he goes again to the temple and he really lets the... the Sadducees, and the Pharisees, and the Sanhedrin. He really lets them have it. I mean, it's scathing, you know, to call them, you know, whited sepulchers, and he just calls them out, you know, hypocrites.
He condemns in every way possible, and I'm sure some of it's not even recorded, of the hatred. I don't think that's too strong a word here. the one thing He hated more than anything else was their self -righteousness. I think that's true for... And hypocrisy, right? Hypocrisy and self -righteousness. There's nothing that I think Jesus hates more than that. More than anything, He hates that. And He just really lets them have
it in Matthew chapter 23. To me, it's probably one of my least favorite chapters in the New Testament. It's uncomfortable, and to be honest, I know it's true, and I know that the Spirit of the Lord can testify that it's true, but it's kind of hard to read. Anyway, that's Matthew 23, and then after all of that, that just infuriates the Jewish authorities, and man, before the end of this week, they're going to make sure that he's dead. So doesn't doesn't he on this day
also? Fortel the destruction of the temple so He brings that up. He's brought that up before yeah, you know he brought that up Six months to a year before Scott that a temple be destroyed in three or days. I'll raise it up he talks about that as a Prophecy to his disciples to the Jews in another previous to coming to Jerusalem. But anyway, and that evening, so poignant that he
goes up on the Mount of Olives. Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I've loved you and would have gathered you as a hand gathers her chicks, but you would not. And it's also that evening on Tuesday evening where we get Matthew 24. which is really, I think, more accurate and better read in Joseph Smith Matthew. Joseph Smith Matthew is Matthew, the Joseph Smith translation of Matthew chapter 24 given on Tuesday, where he talks about
his second coming. And he's with just his disciples here, and they ask him, and he gives them Matthew chapter 24. So I really love that. chapter, especially studied in Joseph Smith Matthew. So that's Tuesday, and that evening they go home probably very late. Tuesday is a big day, and there's lots recorded on what Jesus did on Tuesday. On Wednesday, we don't have really anything recorded on Wednesday, Scott. He just rests with his friends. This is
his last day to be with them, really. He knows that after after Wednesday, it's going to go downhill pretty fast. And so he's just with his mother, Mary, and his best friends and his closest disciples, his apostles. Someday I hope to have a record of some of those events on Wednesday, which were maybe too sacred for them to... to share with us. There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes Wednesday, too. Yeah. Yeah, there's a conspiracy continues. Exactly. Continues.
Judas kind of finalizes his betrayal for 30 pieces of silver. Right. Yeah. So the Jews are conspiring and Judas as well. And Judas has made his deal to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. also a prophecy fulfilled, and 30 pieces of silver, a price of a slave. So, a lot of symbolism there, and that's taking place on Wednesday. On Thursday, Jesus tells Peter and John to make arrangements
for their Passover celebration. So they go in, and following Jesus' instructions, they find a man, which is probably John Mark, or same Mark, we believe, as who wrote the Gospels, that he's got a room for them, a home where they can meet. John is his Jewish name, Mark is his Greek name. like to know more about him. He was a companion of Paul, and there's some history in several verses, several passages that talk about Mark
and Paul's letters. But they find him, and they have these signs, and the room is prepared for the Last Supper. They, Thursday, go probably in the afternoon towards evening. The Passover will begin. When they see three stars is really when the next day begins. So Thursday, for us, Thursday goes until midnight, right? Thursday for them goes until dusk. And so, you know, sometimes chronologies of the gospel, you have to keep this in mind, that the real Friday begins when
dusk on Thursday begins. And it goes until the following evening. They don't go from midnight to midnight. They go from dusk to dusk. So on Thursday is when they're killing the lambs. And they estimate, Scott, I read this the other day, they estimate that there would have been like 260 ,000 lambs. Can you imagine the blood in the streets? to celebrate the Passover. I mean, that's crazy to think about that, but that was
one estimate. And all of this is going on, and so they'll have lamb, the apostles, they're going to follow the Jewish tradition. This will be the last Passover. This Passover will be the last because Jesus fulfills the law. And there will be a new supper. There will be the new emblems of the sacrament that will be introduced to the disciples. And the slaughtering of lambs and
the sacrifice of animals will end. And Jesus will make that pretty clear in the Last Supper Thursday night, or for them, that would be the beginning of Friday. Yeah. Even a new covenant, right? A new covenant. And He fulfills the law. And he tells them, it's not just enough to love God and your neighbor. I want you to love others as I have loved. A new commandment, he says. A new commandment I give to you that you love one another as I have loved you. There's five
chapters in John on the Last Supper. Five chapters. There's no one event. we know more about than the Last Supper because of John recording that. Five chapters of his 21 chapters. There's only 21 chapters in the Gospel of John, and five of them are on the Last Supper. By the way, some people may wonder, how can the chosen, the people that do the chosen, make a whole movie on the Last Supper? Well, that's why, because John recorded almost everything that happened there. Oh man,
it's really amazing. So grateful for that too. Yeah, and there's so much to learn from it. Jesus washing their feet. This is a sacred ordinance. Nobody should be doing this in a Sunday school class. I've heard of that before, that a Sunday school teacher celebrating Easter wanted to wash his... His kids' feet. This is a sacred ordinance that should be so holy and sacred that it's only really preserved for the temple, to be honest.
The washing and the anointing and those kinds of things should only be done in very sacred places by those in authority. But Jesus does this to introduce the fulfillment of the law in a really sacred We've already had opportunity throughout Jesus' life to see inside the man Jesus, inside his character and attributes and perfections and all those things. We've had that opportunity throughout his life. But today, in this instance, Dave, we get a glimpse that blows
me away. You know, if I really think about it through mortal eyes and through my fallen self, it just blows me away. Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him. Mm -hmm and had already in fact done so right? Jesus washed the feet of Judas. Yeah, he does You know if you read other McConkey's mortal Messiah, he has he kind of puts them He kind of arranges that the seating
they'll be kind of seated in a square. They're not they're not like Leonardo da Vinci's painting the Last Supper where they're all on just one long table. Like we would probably eat a feast on one long table. This is on kind of a square. The Last Supper probably would have had four tables set up in something of a square or something like that. And they had this tradition that they would partake of the Passover meal. Leaning,
sitting, the tables would be very low. Sometimes they would even be they would tie ropes from the ceiling to the table so that nothing would touch the floor. I mean, all of that could have been symbolic, but Elder McConkie puts Judas to the left of Jesus so that Jesus is leaning on his left side. All the disciples are leaning on their left side, kind of laying as they partake
of the Last Supper. By tradition and Jesus follows this tradition and they're laying on these pillows and on their left side and You know after washing their feet including Judas's right He identifies his betrayer. Yep, and he probably Judas wants to be to his left because Judas There has been some contention Before the Last Supper really began the disciples were arguing about who's the most prominent and who gets to set where. Elder McConkie speculates that Judas started
all of that. That his guilt had gotten the best of him and that he was really speculating about him being the most prominent and that he was going to, in Elder McConkie's mind, his betrayal as evil and as wicked as it was, that he thought, Judas perhaps, thought that by him betraying Jesus, that Jesus was really going to prove to the Jews once and for all that he could save himself. Having no idea by the spirit of the mind and will of God, Judas was trying to be
most prominent. By selling them out being the treasurer of the 12 and sell out Jesus believing that Jesus would really Prove himself and if he didn't maybe he really wasn't the Christ after
all. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Anyway, he's probably setting to his left and Jesus whispers and identifies him as the betrayer and he gets up and leaves before Jesus Initiates the sacrament Judas is gone after having his feet washed And then Jesus, some of His greatest teachings, right, are in the Last Supper, which Gratefully John recorded, about the Comforter, the Second Comforter, and the Holy Ghost, and all of these great discourses
that He gives to the Twelve. And then it gets up to chapter 17, where we have the greatest prayer, I mean, we have the disciples in 3rd Nephi felt like they cannot record the words of the prayer Jesus uttered because it was too sacred, but we have the great intercessory prayer recorded in John chapter 17, which is amazing that to be able to hear the Son of God pray to His Father. Anyway, I Everyone should study the Great Intercessory Prayer on Thursday, if you're
studying what happens day by day. I just really love that. And, you know, this is life eternal. Jesus praying to the Father, this is where He says that. This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, Father, and the Son, Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent. I mean, I... that we see so much of Jesus and His prayer for the disciples to be one as the Father and the Son are one.
And then, after the prayer and the sacrament and all that takes place in that upper room, Scott, they sing the halil, which is from Psalms in preparation as tradition, Jewish tradition, and they sing some hymns. And they leave, and they walk over to Gethsemane. That's Thursday, and Gethsemane happens that night. Which again, for the Jews, is really Friday. But I don't know where people will be Thursday. Thursday night, we should all be thinking about the events of
the Last Supper and Gethsemane. Specifically, the Last Supper is super important, but Gethsemane, again, this is where he invites us to see him. And this is really the second, the first being his sinless life, but the second event, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, Dave, is what's about to take place here in Gethsemane. Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any thoughts on the Last Supper? We didn't cover all of that or take enough time
on it. My personal thought is the more I reflect and I look upon, I mean, when we were in Israel, I'm gonna go back to that, they had a Seder plate and they had all of the different things. Did you guys take the Passover in? No. Did they do that for you? No. But the more I study into that, there are so many different views on what that means in all different types of religions. And I would love to study even more because I'm I
don't know enough. But the thing that has been so impactful for me is how it integrates and strengthens my testimony of the Last Supper, combining with this the sacrament and how it is Such a huge part of my worship every single Sunday. Yeah That's awesome You know the Passover we don't need to go into this right now But the Passover have been been practiced among the Jews for 1 ,500 years. Yeah You know, it was not something Abraham did. It's not something that Noah did.
This all started under Moses and leading the children of Israel out of Egypt, freeing the children of Israel and the Passover, the angels, the destroying angel, passing over the Israelites because they had put blood, Lamb's blood on the doorposts of their home, which saved their firstborn.
Son I mean there's so much symbolism about that there right the lamb of God firstborn son the blood of the blood and and and this is what this is what they had celebrated for 1500 years and Jesus fulfills it because he's he's the lamb of God and He's going to die and his blood is going to be spilled and there's no sense in celebrating What happened in Egypt? We're going to start celebrating this new Passover which is my death, which is my blood, which will be spilled, and
that's the sacrament. You're going to take a little piece of bread representing His flesh, and a little glass of wine, which will celebrate His blood, and those doing, come follow me, know why we don't do wine, why we do water now. Anyway, that's going to be in remembrance of me, not of our liberation from Egypt, but this is going to celebrate my death. I'm the Savior and Redeemer of Israel. So anyway, that's all part of that Last Supper. So he goes to Gethsemane. Gethsemane,
you guys have been there. You've seen those ancient gnarly olive trees. I have a leaf from one of those trees right here in my room. Yeah, cool. Some of them that are kind of fenced and protected that you can't get by or they say... Those branches lean over the fences, Dave. Do they? Yeah. Okay. That's how I got them. When I was there, I would have done the same thing. Anyway, 2 ,000 years old and... Don't you wish they could tell us this story? Yeah, man. Yeah, I sure do. Anyway,
and I remember our visit. We went there at night. Did you guys go there at night? We went to Gethsemane at night. That would be cool. It was so cool. We'd kind of walked over there. It's about a mile from where the Last Supper was probably. Right. Yeah. So you had to walk up the hill. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I just kind of wanted to be alone. I didn't want to be with the group. So I just kind of went and found a place where I could be alone and pray. and it was dark so nobody
could see me. It was really just an unbelievable experience for me. I can't even imagine. To be in Gethsemane and try to be a disciple and to just be there. None of them really witnessed what He did, and yet He must have told them, or through the Spirit they knew, because they describe it. You know, he takes Peter, James, and John with him. They're about a stone throw away, right? Stone cast away from where he is. We're down to 11 apostles now, because Judas
is out doing his dirty deed. Eight of them he kind of leaves a little further out on the edge of Gethsemane, the Garden of Gethsemane. He takes the three, Peter, James, and John, into Gethsemane with him, the same three who he had taken to the Medal of Transfiguration. I mean, this was the first presidency of the church. And he takes them in with him, then walks away from them about a stone cast. And according to Matthew, falls down. He's laid out. He's laid out when he prays.
I wish that we had more paintings of that, and now I know that Luke says that he knelt down to pray, and I'm sure he did, but at some point he is laid out. I wish we had more great paintings of Jesus in Gethsemane laid out praying. I know there are some, and they're some of my favorite paintings of the Atonement, but he's not calmly With his hands folded or his arms folded kneeling by a rock By the time this experience is over.
I mean this is this is going to be bad then it's going to be painful and This is where he cries out, you know If if there be any other way if thou be willing You know, let let this pass from me the bitter cup the bitter cup There's been so much happened to that we just don't have time to cover between I know you know between now And what's about to happen, but but this is where it really begins Dave this I mean it's begun already began at his birth as a Thursday night
at 9 p .m. They they actually give us the time 9 p .m. To midnight and sorry hours you know and I know there's time differences between there and here But I think it would be good if it not P .M. on Thursday, we found ourselves in a attitude and a posture of worshiping because of what happened on that day. That would be an important tradition, I think. Luke gives us maybe a little more detail. Mark gives us some detail, too, where he's laid
out and where he's praying. In Luke 22, Okay verse what 39 through 44 Well, let's read it. I love these verses. This is my favorite. This is my favorite passage about Gethsemane Luke wouldn't have been there by the way Luke would not Luke would have learned this from the Apostles Luke is Probably using Mary's recollect. Yeah the mother of Jesus records, but he we have this which he Luke 22, 39. And he came out and went as he want to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples
also followed him. And when he was at the place, he told them, pray ye, pray that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast and kneeled down and prayed, saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done. and there appeared an angel unto him from heaven strengthening him. And being in agony, he prayed more earnestly and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to
the ground. Everybody interprets verse 44 a little differently when it comes to other churches. I've shared multiple times in these podcasts my experience. Your experience has been shared recently on other podcasts, by the way. Yeah, that's what I understand. Anyway, calling 30 -something churches one afternoon and asking them for their interpretation of Luke 22, 44, I got all kinds of different answers. But only a few of them viewed it the way we know it to
be true, because think... God for a prophet, and for the Joseph Smith translation. You know, if you really read verse 44, it says, His sweat was, as it were, like great drops of blood falling to the ground. And people take it to mean that Jesus is sweating profusely. His sweat, noun,
His sweat. Were was like great drops of blood falling on the ground so they they think he's he's really wrestling You know internally and that he's he's viewing or he's he knows what's going to happen on Friday And he's thinking about the crucifixion and the cross and that he's he's sweating Perspiring and that this is symbolic of the blood that he will spill on the cross That's how all of them, but I think two or just a few, two or three. That's how they saw it.
I love the way Mosiah teaches us. Well, you know, only only because of the restoration. Exactly. Do we know really what happened there? And it's it's twice. It's in Mosiah three, seven, and it's in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 19. Where
we know that he was got read verse. Yeah, I'm just gonna read verse 7 and low He shall suffer temptations and pain of body hunger thirst and fatigue even more than man can suffer except to be unto death for behold Blood cometh from every poor so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and abominations of his people That's where Joseph Smith learned it first. Can you imagine how that experience would have been for Joseph Smith while he was making that translation?
I think there would have been a long pause where he went, wow, I didn't know that. The term every poor is not in the Bible. It's just not there. So not only do most churches believe Jesus didn't bleed in Gethsemane, but they have no idea how bad it was. that the suffering had caused all of his capillaries in his body, his veins and arteries to collapse because of the constriction of stress and pain that he was under for some three hours, and that he bled from every pore.
Just think about that. Anybody would die. There's only been, I think, a couple. There are a couple. recorded medical incidences where people are in so much pain that there is some few capillaries that burst, and blood actually has been seen oozing from their pores. But not every pore. Not every pore. This is in very limited scope. Yeah, exactly. And so most other churches have no idea what really happened in Gethsemane. I
can't even imagine. However, when you think about all the pain and suffering that goes on in the world, because we live in a crazy world, and this is just our time, but throughout all mankind, to think about what kind of pressure, pain, anguish he went through is not even fathomable to think of. I can't even Truly I cannot imagine Because we have all had our own get so many we've had our own fall on our face and cry out and plead and cry Mm -hmm, but we have no idea what that
must have been. No, it's incomprehensible Absolutely Incomprehensible no one could have lived through it the medical term for this God is hematidrosis This is the beginning of the atonement of Jesus Christ, His pain and suffering. And now let me just have everybody think about this for a minute. The results of this suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane. Because it would make the next... He's going to be alive for the next about 18 hours. He's only going to live for another 18
hours. He's going to be... crucified on the cross at 9 a .m. the next day. So some what 10 hours, 9 hours after he leaves Gethsemane, he's going to be crucified and then die six hours after that. Anything after Gethsemane though is going to be so magnified exponentially because he's dehydrated. If you bleed from every pore, think of how dehydrated he is. And we don't have any
record that he got any water or drink. He did go to the brook, the Kidron brook, and I love how the church depicts that in their video that he washes himself. The stream becomes bloody because he's washing all the blood off of himself. I love that because maybe that's how nobody else knows how bloody Gethsemane was. And yet... The dehydration from all of this would have made him so sick, so weak, delirious for some people, right? Nauseous and all of that that goes with
dehydration. And then bruised. And Isaiah describes that so beautifully. And Benedi in Mosiah chapter 14 describes that so beautifully about being bruised. For the inequities of his people this hat that that began and that started and really took place in in Gethsemane and any touch To his skin. Can you imagine? I mean have you ever
really had a really bad bruise? His whole body would have been a bruise He was truly literally bruised for our iniquities and that Any any touch to his skin even the kiss of Betrayal by Judas on his cheek would have been painful So and then to get slapped and to get beaten to have the cross thrust thrust upon your back and Scourged and all that he went through, you know in the in the next 14 15 hours Everything would have been so Exponentially worse because of what started
in Gethsemane. And that's why I actually believe that all those events that followed Gethsemane is actually part of his pain and suffering. And really part of his atonement is because of what happened in Gethsemane and how that would have made him so sick and so bruised that anything for the next few hours of his life would have been painful. I think oftentimes when we sing the hymns for the sacrament and they talk about bruised, torn, and broken, some of those words
just penetrate my heart. Like in ways that, and I think that's why oftentimes, not a big surprise, I weep. Literally weep through those sacrament hymns. And that's part of what we should be thinking about when we partake of the sacrament. as we sing hymns in particular, flesh and blood. Let's just turn to Mosiah chapter 14. This is what I would have on my tombstone, is the scripture in Mosiah 14, quoting Isaiah 53, Starting with verse 3, he is despised and rejected of men,
a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from him. He was despised, and we had esteemed him not. A lot in those verses when I read, and we hid, as it were, our faces from him. I know that that may have been out of those who were ashamed of Him, but I think it may also have been, in my own mind, it may have been me in the pre -mortal
existence seeing what He was going through. Because I think many spirits in the pre -mortal existence, if not all, would have been aware of this transcendental event. This would have affected all of them. And I think I couldn't have watched it. I think I would have turned away. I don't think I could have witnessed it because it would be too painful
for me to even witness. Verse 4, For our inequities the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes We are healed all we like sheep have gone astray We have turned everyone to his own way and the Lord hath laid on him the inequities of me And us all yeah, it's it's personal and he did all of that Just for me and for all of the world So that's where it begins, but that's
not where it ends. That's only the beginning of his suffering Scott and them it the really the culmination and the the climax of his suffering is on the cross where According to Talmadge according to McConkey and now according to President Nelson The cross was Gethsemane intensified Because all of Gethsemane came back and the father withdraws his presence Another piece I cannot even imagine. Yeah, I know at least in It's recorded at least
in Gethsemane. He had an angel. Yeah, that was another event in Gethsemane an angel came to strengthen him and I Love the imagery of that when you have loved to have seen that the angel who I think Really is that as elder McConkey
really? Speculates that it was probably Adam That Michael the archangel came to strengthen him That would be an interesting Conversation so then he goes he's betrayed with a kiss for 30 pieces of silver we've talked about He's taken to Caiaphas the Jews the Romans take him to Caiaphas and Caiaphas They go through a mockery of a trial he spit upon he slapped they're trying to find witnesses to testify against him probably false witnesses who are paid and He goes through this
whole mockery that lasts for several hours in the middle of the night, which is Probably against Jewish law, I understand. They break their own law. He went to Annas first, and Annas sent him over to Caiaphas, by the way. And then from Caiaphas, after being abused, tormented, and accused, then he goes, and just think about that. We're all accused. I mean, there's just so many parts of this. that we should all be able to relate to. Even if they're tormented. We're all tormented.
Maybe not the exact way physically that he was, but we suffer those things. We're all abused. We're all neglected. We're all accused. But not like that. He ends up at Pilate's palace. Pilate, you know, he's just such a wimp, such a puppet. He wants doesn't want to hurt the Jewish leaders feelings. So if they want to crucify him, that's what he's going to do But he he finds out that he's from Galilee that he's a Galilean and Herod's in town because it's the Passover And so he says
well, you gotta go over to see Herod. I'm not you know, I'm the governor of Judea I'm not the governor of Galilee. That's Herod. So he goes over to Herod and Herod is the son of Herod the Great who had all the children killed when he was born, and Jesus really disdains him and won't answer his question. As the only person to ask him a question, Jesus didn't respond. He was totally silent the whole time he was at the place
of Herod. And this is where they stripped him, they tormented him and abused him and put on a scarlet or purple whatever account you want to believe robe and sent him back to Pilate because he wouldn't even speak to Herod. And then Pilate ends up washing his hands and asking the people, according to your traditions, you can let one
criminal go free. I'll give you a choice. Barabbas, who is probably, I think, the greatest criminal of Jerusalem at the time, who's alive, who's a murderer, one of the gospel writers, identifies him as a murderer. or Jesus, and they want Barabbas to be released over Jesus, and they start to chant. That's where maybe, maybe some, maybe a few, I don't know, the people who were chanting Hosanna at the beginning of the week are now
chanting, crucify Him, crucify Him. Anyway, so Pilate turns him over to the Jews after having them scourged, which is according to the Roman tradition. If you're going to crucify somebody, you scourge them first. Some of them would die before they were through getting scourged, and at the very least, it would kind of speed up their death hanging on the cross. So he scourges them, 39 whips with metal and bone tied in the ends of the strands of the whip. And now again,
think of what he's been through. Think of what he's been through. He has walked, by the way, if you really look at the map and you study it, and you guys have been there, but he's walked over five miles since Gethsemane, and going back and forth, going from... Anas the Caiaphas the pilot to Herod back to pilot. He's walked over five miles. He's been totally abused and then
any sleep for maybe days. I don't know and They put a cross on his back and he's walking to Golgotha no wonder he collapses and Simeon's there who later becomes a convert according to tradition Simeon of Cyrene and He's enlisted, or I like to think he volunteered to carry the cross the rest of the way. And they get to the cross at 9 a .m. I don't know where you're going to be on Friday. 9 a .m. But you got to think about it. 9 a .m. Good Friday. I always thought that's
such a contradiction. Good is kind of an offshoot of the word God. So I get it, but man, it's good for us, but bad for him. And you know, I think this is another place where I think traditions could play such a significant role in celebrating Easter as what you do on Good Friday. Yeah. We have a plan that we've actually put into place three, four years ago. This is actually our second year. Oh, okay. That's a good start. Just go with me, Deb. This is a good start. So this will
be our second year. I thought we did it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. But we will be in the celestial room. There you go. At noon. At noon. Oh, wow. At noon. Yeah, that's awesome. We've already got our appointment made. I wish we observed it as a holiday in this nation. We should. We really should. I know in Europe they do. You're off on Good Friday. I wish the church would give all their employees Good Friday off if you're listening to President Nelson. Yeah. The church
at least should close down. On Good Friday. I request the day off and reflect Good Friday. I really learned this from my secretary in Minnesota who was a former Catholic. She was a convert and she would come in in my office every time this time of the year and say, now Brother Durfee, you know I don't work on Good Friday. And she
had learned that as a good Catholic girl. And she would, just before we had a St. Paul Minnesota temple, and she would drive seven hours on Thursday night and get to the Chicago temple around midnight. And then she would just spend, do five sessions. On Friday. On Friday. How cool. She'd be in the temple all day Friday and drive back home Saturday. And that was her tradition. That's a great tradition. Oh man, I really honor her, Barbara Foster. She
taught me. Good Friday ought to be a sacred day. So again, I don't know what people can do, and maybe it's just a moment to bow your head and say thank you, but it ought to be acknowledged that on 9 a .m. he is crucified between two thieves. There are seven statements that he makes from the cross from 9 a .m. until he dies at 3 p .m. But the fourth statement is the one at 12 noon that is the most haunting. And at 12 noon, this
is where all hell breaks loose. At 12 noon, you know, he's just turned over to the buffettings of Satan, really, and really experienced spiritual death where he's completely cut off from God and he cries out and you can imagine the the sinless one experiencing really perdition God's presence has withdrawn from him. He is experiencing hell literally and he cries out at 12 noon My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? This is where Jesus experienced the full effects of
the fall. Spiritual death. Prior to now, he had not experienced spiritual death. He had experienced the physical death elements of the fall and had and had healed the spiritual or physical death elements of the fall and spiritual in so many. of his followers up until this point. But until this point, he's had the Father and others ministering to him to strengthen him, to buoy him up, to give him what he needed to fulfill his mission. Here at noon on the cross, he's alone. And Dave,
this is where... Also, you know, we read in scripture about earthquakes and about all the things that happened at about that time. You know, this is where not only do our spiritual, not only do we spiritually react to the events that was taking place there, but even the physical realm was was mother nature was reacting to that. I love it. Quoted a Protestant leader minister from the past. His name is Charles Spurgeon, and he made an observation one time, and I wish I could
find it so I could read it exactly. But it's along these lines that the hearts of men were hardened to the point where they couldn't be broken, but even the rocks were broken because of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. That's good. I think it's also really important to think about the sacrifice that Heavenly Father made by intentionally turning away. What a grievous thing to do to
His only begotten Son. Yeah. Ouch. The only one who even comes close to knowing how that feels is Abraham when he was asked to sacrifice his son, Isaac. Can you imagine even contemplating that? No, no. That's why we call him Father Abraham. Yeah, so thanks to have that. Yeah, we should all not just think of the sacrifice of the son, but of the father. And I think in some ways that
would even be harder. I agree. To have to. Witness it and and know you had to withdraw from the Sun for him to feel the depths of hell So that happens for three more hours and there's total darkness There's total darkness in Jerusalem for three hours and for three days in America and maybe other parts of the world the darkness and the earthquakes in the the heaving of the
rocks and breaking of the rocks. And all of that happens at that time and in some places longer than others, apparently, because it was three hours in Jerusalem, but three days in America. So, Jesus at 12 noon, besides that statement,
why hast thou forsaken me, at 3 p .m. He cries out, it is finished into thy hands I commend my spirit and he dies the Savior dies they have to hurry and bury him in a borrowed tomb Joseph of Arimathea which is interesting and they bury him and the garden tomb one of my most favorite places I think in Jerusalem where you can go and see, not the Catholic traditional place, but the Episcopalian Church of England has a garden called the Garden Tomb, and that's where
we believe that Jesus was buried, according to President Lee and others. So, he's dead the rest of the day on Friday, which should only be really a few hours by Jewish reckoning of time. Then all day Saturday from Jewish reckoning of time Friday evening to Saturday evening and Then early Sunday morning So that he's not dead three full days He's dead on three days So it's after three days that he's resurrected, but they're not 24
hours 72 hours. He's only dead for about 40 hours He's in the tomb for about 40 hours and in that 40 hours He is preaching the gospel in the spirit world, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 138, where you can learn about, in some detail, Jesus' visit to the spirits in the spirit world, where he begins the preaching of the gospel to them who are dead. And the prison doors are opened, and the gospel begins to be preached. Can you imagine
the joy and the... What's going on in the spirit world for those 40 hours and forever after that? Completely changes the spirit world and redemption of the dead. And then early, I believe really early myself, maybe 5 a .m. as the sun is coming up in April or 6 a .m. that Mary's there. Mary is there and she's alone. and she's weeping, and everybody on Sunday, I don't know again what your traditions are on Sunday, but mine is to always get up early and to read John chapter
20. I try to get up about the time of the resurrection, and I read John chapter 20. Probably the most important chapter, I think, in all of Scripture, the record of His resurrection. and Mary greeting him and Mary holding him. You know, again, thank God for a prophet in the Joseph Smith translation. He didn't say, touch me not, speaking to Mary. He said, hold me not. There would have been an embrace. This is probably more than a special friendship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
There's some special relationship here that Jesus would choose to appear to her first before He appeared to Peter, the chief apostle. I mean, there's something really significant here. And He even appears to other women before He appears to Peter and the apostles, which says something about His respect, I think, for women. But to Mary, she holds him. And he says, hold me not, Mary. I need to send him to his father in heaven. He appeared to Mary before he went back to the
presence of his father. I love John chapter 20. I just think that is the gospel. That is the gospel. That's the good news, is John chapter 20. You can't think about the resurrection in these events of Easter without thinking of 1 Corinthians chapter 15, and Paul basically says, if there was no resurrection, you're wasting your time. Yeah, with everything. If there's no resurrection and Jesus didn't live again, then why are you doing what you're doing? There
is no Christianity. There is no church. There is no point. If Christ isn't alive and wasn't resurrected and appeared to Mary, then go home. Die and be done. It's over. That's probably why they say 40 days after He is risen. That's probably what they did back then. He is risen! He is risen! Yeah, exactly. Like it was probably such a celebration of awe. Can you imagine, Deb? Yes, and we should be celebrating. That way as well. And one of
his apostles didn't even believe it. Yes. You know, Thomas, because when Jesus does appear to the twelve, Thomas, or not to the twelve, because Judas committed suicide, by the way, he's committed suicide even before the resurrection. He appears to the ten disciples. Thomas is out running there. Can you imagine missing that meeting? Being late to that meeting? Say, hey, Jesus was just here. And he's, no way! Doubting Thomas,
poor doubting Thomas. He appears to the 11, the 11 a week later, and Thomas is there, and Jesus says, Thomas, come and touch and feel, and eats honeycomb with him. Luke 24, I love that. Scott, this is the essence of our message. Jesus Christ, Him crucified and resurrected. That is the good news. That's what all Christians base their faith and hope upon, is that Jesus suffered, that He died, and He was resurrected the third day. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, anything to that is
only an appendage. That is the gospel of Jesus Christ, and anything else is just an add -on. So, that's Easter. We have a great opportunity in front of us this week as we prepare for Sunday, where we really where we really celebrate that he is indeed risen. I love this, Dave. We're out of time. We could take so much. I know we're over time. We could we could dive into so many. And, you know, and I encourage you if you're
interested. Hope you are to go back and listen to maybe our previous podcasts on this or or go find somebody else's too There's just so much great wisdom and learning that we need to have as we strengthen our own Testimonies and grow closer to him. Yeah. Thank you Thanks, Deb. Any last word, Deb? I'm looking forward to my own study, my own experience. It's a personal thing. Absolutely. And I am really looking forward to it. As am I. As I hope all of our family members
might make it personal to each of them. And I just want to just bear testimony in the name of Jesus Christ that I know that He lives. I've heard his voice. I know what his voice sounds like. I've heard his voice. I haven't seen him in the flesh. But I've seen him with an eye of faith and in dreams and visions. And I know we have living special witnesses of the living.
resurrected Christ on the earth today, and I'm not one of them, but if I would have been there in the room with the twelve when Jesus appeared to them, I would not know more then than I know now that He lives. It's beyond faith for me. I know it's faith, but I know. And my testimony is still growing. It will continue to grow. I'm excited to share the witness and the message of the Gospel with people in Australia. And I
look forward to that. I look forward to coming home in a year and a half, Scott, and picking it up from there. So thank you. Bittersweet. Thanks, Dave. I too have been so grateful for this opportunity to do this podcast with you, but mostly to draw closer through it to my Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ, which I have done. And I think I've done that in ways that would not have been available to me otherwise without this experience So I'm so grateful for but above everything this experience and in every other experience that I've ever had in my life I'm grateful for the experiences that he had I'm grateful that he Was willing to bear my burdens to bear my griefs to bear my sorrows to bear my fears to bear everything about me that has been a result
of the fall of Adam and Eve, and I'm grateful for that. I'm really grateful, Deb, to also be doing this now with you and look forward to that. What are your final thoughts today, sweetheart? I literally stand all amazed in this holy space. It's very, very humbling to feel and to know. and to testify of Jesus Christ. My heart has been filled. Thank you. Well, thank you. And
thanks to all of you for being with us. We pray that your Easter experience will be everything that you hope for and maybe even more than that, as you invite the spirit of our Heavenly Father to be with you and administrate the blessings of Jesus's atonement in this season. We look forward to being with you again next week. Deb and I do. Good luck on your mission, David. We
will miss you. We'll look forward to David and I. He doesn't know this yet, but we're going to be in pretty frequent contact and I will be reporting back on his mission as we go. Thanks for being with us, everybody. Thanks for being with us, everybody. We look forward to being with you again next week and until then, be well.