Hi everybody and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood. In this podcast we discuss hope, healing and redemption through the atonement of Jesus Christ. I'm Scott Durfey. Let me introduce my partner in this project, our teacher, David Durfey. Good morning everyone. Nice to be with you. As always, Dave's good to have you here looking forward to another great day of podcasts.
We want to thank everybody for your contributions through emails and suggestions and suggestions on how maybe we can be better. But most importantly, we're really grateful for the questions that we've been receiving. We've received several questions. We'll be addressing many of those throughout the course of our podcast series here. So we want to just encourage you to continue to send those questions to us, make recommendations, any suggestions you may have. We're definitely open to those.
You can do that at our email. Here's that address. He redeems us at gmail.com. Again, just encourage your questions, comments, etc. So as we start today's podcast, Dave, what do you think is our best course of action in moving forward? Well, thank you, Scott. By the way, to our listeners who have emailed us, we really are thankful for your questions and comments. We may not always directly reference your questions or your comments, but they do influence us.
For example, I'm thinking of one right now who had a really great question about Luke chapter seven. We're going to answer that. We're going to get to that where it kind of more appropriately fits into our outline. We may not even reference the question directly, but it will influence what we say and how we teach, recognizing forgiveness and the power of Christ's forgiveness and His love in our life.
If you happen to ask a question and you need an immediate answer, maybe you need to tell us that and tell us how we can reach out to you. Or just thank you for being patient in us, getting around to answering those questions. So last week we spoke about faith in Christ and faith in the name of Christ. We have talked about the difference levels of faith generally and specifically in Christ.
And how can we obtain a little bit the faith of power, which is the highest level of faith, the faith of power in our lives? There's everything from faith of I believe, I hope, I know, and then the faith of power described by President Nelson and others, the faith to move mountains, and the faith to command, the faith to anything that you speak. It will be according to the will of God and therefore it will be done. Those are many great examples of the highest level of faith in the scriptures.
And we need to reiterate that even God performs miracles by His faith. God creates worlds by faith. That's all in, that's mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11 verse 1 and in the lectures of faith that God has faith. And someday as we progress in our levels of faith, someday we can only hope and aspire in righteousness to have that level of faith and to become more like Him.
So we also talked about what it means to call upon the name, the difference between just calling upon God and calling upon the name of the Lord. It's just really interesting as you study your scriptures, if you'll just really pay attention and your ears will kind of perk up and your eyes get a little larger when you read in the name or on the name, faith in the name, calling upon the name.
I just think it can really inspire our listeners, it inspires me, it kind of helps me to just really focus on Jesus Christ and the power in His name, the power in using His name. And ultimately that exaltation in our progress in this life is based upon our relationship with Him, which is a covenant relationship based upon us taking upon ourselves His name. So in the scriptures, calling upon the name, when most people read that, they immediately think of prayer, to call upon the name of the Lord.
Well I know that it means prayer, in the lowest level it means prayer. In the highest level of that phrase in the scriptures, it means to participate in the ordinances, the saving ordinances of the gospel. And I actually first became aware of that, reading a Protestant commentary of the Bible.
I was reading this commentary of the Bible in Acts chapter 22 and in the commentary on verses 12 through 16 where Ananias is speaking to Paul and you get to verse 16 and Ananias says to Paul, I'll read verse 16, this is chapter 22 of Acts. So before you do that Dave, let's just recap real quick. What's happened to Paul now?
Paul has been struck blind and now he's been led to this home of Ananias and so he's gone through this experience and we know that Paul has had kind of a colored or checkered past in terms of his relationship with Christians. We know that he was there when Stephen the prophet was stoned. We know that there was probably held his cloak and there was a lot of other things that Paul had done that really was kind of against the grain of Christianity at that time.
Yeah, yeah Paul has now been called by the Lord and as he is led to Ananias, a prophet, he receives this counsel from Ananias and in verse 16 Ananias says to Paul who will soon be to Saul who will soon become Paul. Okay, this is what reference one more time. Acts 22 verse 16 and now why terrius thou Ananias asks Saul arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord.
So in this Protestant commentary I read years ago they said calling upon the name of the Lord means to take upon ourselves the name of the Lord to receive power in our lives through the name of the Lord and receiving that name in our life by being baptized. So through ordinances. Yes, and we learn right.
We learn in Mosiah five that taking upon ourselves the name to be called after Christ's name to become the children of Christ that is being baptized and then because of the restoration of the fullness of the gospel we know that going to the temple we take upon ourselves his name his holy name.
I think we read that in in doctrine comes section 109 that we go to the house of the Lord to take upon ourselves his name and even a more sacred and even in a in a deeper sort of way it's symbolic the temple of the of the Middle East marriage covenant and to become joint heirs with Christ.
So calling upon the name as you read the scriptures really means to participate in the ordinances of the gospel and before we participate in the ordinance of the gospel we are commanded to repent and in Alma chapter 34 amulet teaches us that calling upon the name of the Lord means to call upon his mercy and to call upon Christ and his atonement for his forgiveness. So in verse 17 it reads of Alma chapter 34 I'll read 17 and 18.
Therefore may God grant unto you my brother and remember he's speaking to the Zora mites and this is a follow up to Alma's incredible discourse on faith and how to how to plant the seed in our hearts and obtain faith by looking to Christ. Isaac says therefore may God grant unto you my brother and that you may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance that you begin to call upon his holy name that he would have mercy upon you. Ye cry into him for mercy for he is mighty to save.
So we know that calling upon the name again means to pray but it's not just a common prayer it's a prayer for mercy. It's a prayer or crying out, crying out unto God for mercy for salvation for redemption for forgiveness, calling upon the name upon his holy name is I believe the process described in the scriptures to call upon Jesus Christ and the power of his atonement.
We can do that through prayer at the beginning and ultimately the highest order of calling upon the name is to participate in the ordinances of the gospel and this is this takes us through the process we call repentance which which we need to talk more about today is what repentance is and we probably should begin our discussion of repentance Scott by describing what it's not. Yeah I agree with that.
I think I just want to I just want to kind of highlight one thing in chapter Alma 34 17 halfway down or through that verse I'll just read the whole verse actually. Therefore may God grant unto you my brother in that you may get begin to exercise your faith unto repentance.
So the way Amulet makes it sound here Dave is that this is a process this isn't a one time event this isn't just something that we get to and we do we come to and we do for example but it's actually a process that you may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance that you begin to call upon his holy name that he would have mercy on you so you're asking him to have mercy on you but also that this qualifies us for his mercy on us am I reading that correctly.
Yeah absolutely you know crying unto God is an important part of that process we call repentance crying out to him and we cry out to him to have the blood or the atonement of Jesus Christ applied in our life. We cry out to God to be able to access the power and the atonement of Jesus Christ and how do we do it in the name of Jesus Christ.
I don't know if we really understand fully or appreciate as much as we should what it really means to pray in the name or to call upon the name of Jesus Christ so many times when we pray we just it just rolls off our tongue and it just we just end our prayers in the name and it doesn't it doesn't take upon it doesn't have the power upon us that it should have upon us.
I think of you know when I think of this type of a prayer I automatically and for obvious reasons my mind has been trained to go to these types of things but the 11th step of our recovery programs says the sought sought through prayer and meditation to maintain a conscious contact with God and I think of I think of when we're talking about praying this way calling upon him that's what we're really doing is it's a communion it's a we're
putting effort into it we're listening and that's part of our effort we're listening we're feeling we're listening with our hearts too so we're feeling and all of these things that can help us bring us closer to him do really helps us to take upon us his name so go right ahead.
So in in our religious tradition that calling upon the name is the name of Jesus Christ and receiving that name not just invoking it in prayer but when we when we use it and when we call upon it Scott we are invoking the power of Christ in his atonement in our life and ultimately and I believe this an important part of repentance is to participate in the ordinances of the gospel and the sacrament prayer we mentioned this before but it's right
in the sacrament prayer that the sacrament is evidence of our willingness to take upon ourselves the name of Christ all of that is what it means to call upon the name of Christ or to call upon the name of the Lord I used to strike me as being kind of odd that the brother of Jared when before they got in their barges and before they were led to the promised land that while setting on a beach right for for how many for a few years I think how long
were they there like three hours three years wasn't it four years they were there four years setting on a beach for four years maybe being a little comfortable maybe this is a nice place and and they call the place Moriankum or I'm in the ether chapter two and at the end of four years that the Lord came again and did the brother of Jared and stood in the cloud and talked with him this is verse 14 of ether two and this always struck me
as being kind of didn't didn't seem right to me and for the space of three hours did the Lord talk with the brother of Jared and chastened him because he remembered not to call upon the name of the Lord and the brother of Jared repented of the evil which he had done and did call upon the name of the Lord well I did I thought that's that's odd he wouldn't pray for four years here's a prophet here is a prophet who who for four years didn't
pray you know I that this that really seemed just not even possible impossible impossible and and so I think when he gets chastised for three hours here chasing because he remembered not to call upon the name of the Lord I think it it means something more than just praying I think that maybe he was too comfortable there that maybe he hadn't quite trusted in the Lord like he should or hadn't maybe received the covenant that he was going to receive
or take upon himself really in chapter three when the Lord appears to him something is going on here other than him not just saying his prayers morning and evening that there's something missing besides just a omission of prayer praying he's not repenting he's not he's not renewing or entering into the covenants perhaps that he's that he should have while he was there and that maybe he shouldn't have been there as long as he had been there for
four years on the beach it's nice beach yeah night must have been a nice beach but that he wasn't being proactive in calling upon the name of the Lord through repenting or participating in the ordinance of the gospel perhaps like he should have so I just I believe that there's there's power that we can receive in our life when we know what we're doing and what it means to call upon the name of the Lord and when we invoke that name and when we when we use
that name there's power in that Scott and it it definitely does affect our relationship with with our heavenly Father as we call upon him in the name of Jesus Christ and it and it is a reflection how we use his name it's a reflection of our relationship with Jesus Christ himself I wonder how many of us have been on that proverbial beach ourselves I think we all I know I have I know there's been times in my life I'm saying my prayers
I'm going through the motions and doing and you know and I when I say going through the motions I'm not suggesting that my heart's not into it at least at some level but there's there's a clear and concise difference the way you just put this to us there's a clear and concise difference between being all in or calling upon his name and just being a little bit in and I and I don't know that often in fact I know that in fact we don't
often make that cognizant choice or it's not something that's premeditated not something but we just find ourselves there sometimes we just find ourselves because for whatever reason and we can go back and talk about what those reasons would be but I don't think we need to because I think that we can identify those in our own lives but some of them that may be am I taking my my personal prayers to casual am I really communing and renewing
covenants when I'm sitting at the sacrament table on Sunday among many many many other things how's my commitment to my covenants in the temple how's my commitment my covenants to my family and and many many other things I wonder how many often how often many of us and you know we read about this in the Book of Mormon where it says that oftentimes Satan will help us to be lulled away into carnal security causing us to say all is well
in Zion ye Zion prospereth when it's not and we can sometimes deceive ourselves or become deceived in believing that you know we're doing well and then we find ourselves like the brother of Jared Mahonri here right on the beach getting chastised and I bet he was at like yeah you're right you know I don't think any one of us would be surprised if we had something brought to our attention that maybe we're somewhat remiss in in terms
of making sure that we are following through to the nth degree in other words car we really calling upon his name yeah and the sacred nature of all that that means can be really a powerful motivating force in in our life heavenly father is really happy when anybody will pray to him in any form absolutely in any way you know Christian or non-Christian that I know our heavenly father is really grateful for any prayer even the prayer on
the food that we sometimes take for granted and even the prayer of a man falling off a cliff oh God help me yeah yeah God hears every prayer and he's grateful and he's touched by by every prayer but to call upon the name of the Lord is a deeper more sacred it's a higher form or level of worship to call upon the name of the Lord to invoke that name and to express our willingness to take upon ourselves his name and and to call upon Christ as our
advocate and mediator to the father and to receive covenants in his name that's all a deeper part of our of our worship or at least it should be Scott yeah I agree I think too Dave that we could safely say that when Jesus said come unto me all you that labor that this is part of that coming unto me this is a more complete coming unto our Lord the Savior Jesus Christ is when we call upon his name and we're going to get into why that is indeed the case
as we start to talk about covenants and how those things you know work their way into our lives or how we bring them into our lives by fully calling upon his name and right now we're going to talk about it as we talk about the process we call repentance again everyone we have we have we have said this and we'll continue to say this that redemption through the blood of Christ and the power to be able to access the the atonement of Jesus Christ
in our life is following the doctrine of Christ that is that is the actions that allow us to access the power and blood of Christ in our lives and again the doctrine of Christ is faith in Christ its repentance its baptism receiving the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end which includes our continual participation in the atonement of Jesus Christ through the ordinances of the gospel including partaking of the sacrament so as we have as we move on
from faith in Christ we want to talk about repentance and what that means I think before we talk about what it is we need to talk about what it is not so I want to offer maybe for there's so many and I guess there's you could we could make a long list of a dozen or more of what repentance is not but I think these four are really critical and the four that often seem to grab the attention mostly of students that I taught in the repentance and
forgiveness class and the first one is I think maybe the most important one to understand and so let me just kind of say it this way faith is not absolutely is not the punishment for sin the payment for sin or the penalty for sin repentance is not punishment repentance is not the penalty repentance is not the payment for any sin we cannot pay back in any form or fashion in all of the suffering we go through because of our sins the consequences of our
sins nothing that we can do can pay back one millionth of one percent of any sin we ever commit Jesus Christ paid the punishment all of it 100% of it not not 99.9 100% he met the demands of justice for all of us he paid the penalty he suffered the consequences in the payment penalty and punishment for our sins he suffered spiritual death all for us because of our sins so Dave I believe that and I know that to be the case now but you know we read
we read in the scriptures for example in Dr. and Covenants section 19 verse 4 right and it says and surely every man must repent or suffer for I God I'm endless and so if repentance is not punishment and it says here that if we don't repent we must suffer it says their antonyms read verse 4 again and surely every man must repent or suffer okay so repentance is an antonym to suffering right right so if you repent you won't suffer if you if you
repent you won't pay the price you won't you can't pay the punishment I just think I just think we misread that yeah I do too now I know president Kimball president Oaks and many others who have taught repentance teach that if we don't suffer then we can't fully repent well I get that because I've experienced a broken heart and contrite spirit believe me that's not that's not easy and they're suffering involved a broken heart hurts they're suffering
they're suffering as a result of our sins because of our sins but repentance is not the payment for sins because Jesus did all of that repentance is actually the anecdote to sins because if you think about it and we're going to talk about this here's a spoiler alert we're going to talk about how repentance is actually a turning away from our sins and turning toward the Savior and coming unto him that's what repentance really is and we're going to talk
about that I don't want to get into that in full right now but it's important that we kind of know that going into this because in in verses 16 through 18 of that exact same section in the Doctrine and Covenants 19 it reads for behold I God have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent but if they keep reading so that means though that if they would turn to him then the suffering won't need to be
in other words put it put on the atonement of Jesus Christ but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I which suffering caused myself even God the greatest of all to tremble because of pain and to bleed at every poor and to suffer both body and spirit and would that I might not drink the bitter cup and shrink and then you got to read verse 20 Scott and 19 actually this is this is what we're going to suffer if we don't repent
then this is what we're going to suffer but nowhere in the verses that you just read does it say that we're going to suffer for our sins now that's that's important I know that's been said but because the word because can be easily used in place of the word for so when when others say and and I know it's in in some writings and teachings that that's been taught in the church that people say that you that if you don't repent you will
suffer for your sins I believe that means that we will suffer because of our sins I do too all right so let me read 19 never nevertheless glory be to the father and I per took and I finished my preparations unto the children men where for this is verse 20 therefore I command you again to repent lest I humble you with my almighty power and that you confess your sins lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken of which
in the smallest yay even in the least degree you have tasted at any time I withdrew when I withdrew when I withdrew my spirit so losing the losing the spirit losing the Holy Ghost and the Holy Ghost can't stay with us when we sin that's our punishment for sins that's it but there's nothing about that that that meets the demands of justice Christ paid for all of our sins I want to read this is from Elder Anderson's book called the divine gift
of forgiveness we have no ability to pay for our own sins repentance is exactly the opposite of punishment repentance relieves the guilt and pain and suffering caused by sin Jesus Christ paid for all the sins of all the world a little pause here elder Anderson and I once had a discussion about this and all of the times we read in the verses that talk about Jesus Christ paying for all the sin and sometimes it's singular in the Bible it's singular
one time but most of the time it's plural paid for all the sins of all the world and we could we even know worlds right worlds without number and then he goes on and says our repentance does not pay for one ounce of the sins we have committed the Atonement of Jesus Christ fulfilled all the demands of justice perfectly and exactly our attention must be on him and our appreciation must be for his suffering if we worry this is so important
this sentence is one of my favorite in the book because I think it's it can really if we don't understand what repentance is not that it's not the payment punishment or penalty for sin people who don't understand that Scott it becomes a major hang up or stumbling block for them to repent and that's why I want to talk about this so much because I believe David and I've been I've been I've been this guy that guy and I know many others in the
church have also right and when we get stuck and hung up on this stuff we don't have a clear and concise view of what the Atonement of Jesus Christ really is and how it works in our lives right so go ahead so he he writes quote if we worry whether we have paid back or suffered enough for our sins it will impede our ability to repent and to ever feel forgiven bringing painful discouragement with it well there's so many in the church who are stuck
on trying to suffer enough I haven't suffered enough I haven't been punished enough and they like want to flog themselves and self disparage themselves and beat themselves up and shame themselves thinking that that's going to help them to feel forgiven I got a phone call this morning 6 a.m. from the county jail a man in the county jail and again for you know again for a repeat violation actually this was a parole violation and his
comp and I said hey how you doing you're gonna be okay you know we get trying to encourage and so on and his comment to me was well this is punishment and you know that's so often why we feel that way is because we tend to take what we are familiar with our culture our norms and more is here in our lives and we tend to personify that to a heavenly father and we can't make God human in this and so I think that it's really easy for us to think
well I'm in jail today as punishment for what I did and I got a repent today as punishment for what I did know what we are learning here is that the difference between punishment and and saving is actually coming through this repentance and so this is a question we taught this just two weeks ago in our institute class that Debonite my wife and I teach for young single adults at BYU and UVU same course and this was a question that comes up and
here it's a question is what's the difference between suffering for your sins and suffering because of your sins and and you know Christ has paid the price and so for us all of it and it's and it's paid for whether we call on his name or not it doesn't change his experience in the garden or on the cross whether we apply it or not what it changes is us that's already been paid it's just us now turning to him and away from the other stuff in our lives
that keep us separated from his spirit we we can never suffer enough we can never be punished enough but because Christ is enough because Christ suffered enough we must learn to rely on him and honestly Scott this is the center of repentance and this is the unfortunately this is a part where so many people fell in their in their efforts and in the process of repentance is they they do they do not know how or they've never been taught to rely
totally absolutely completely upon Jesus Christ and his atonement and upon his merits which is the suffering and punishment which he experienced for our sins those are his merits that we need to learn as the Book of Mormon clearly teaches over and over again we must rely upon his merits and not our own and I don't know why that is so hard for members of the church and and others outside our church it's I guess it's a human nature thing where we where we
think we have to pay for it now I'm not saying that there's not suffering I'm not saying that there isn't discipline I'm not saying that there's there there's it takes a lot of effort on our part to be able to really receive the merits of Christ and the blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life it's not easy but it is repentance really is that simple so again I just I want to restate and I can't do it strongly enough that we
will suffer because of our sins and there has to be suffering in repentance which is the broken heart contrite spirit godly sorrow and maybe there'll even be some disciplinary action maybe maybe if our sins are so serious God that it's hurt others it's gone beyond just our own little bubble and it has damaged others then there may be some discipline not just not just civilly on behalf in behalf of the government or our society but but in
behalf of the church you know we have membership councils there are consequences sometimes in those councils one's membership may be taken away from them lifted privileges may be taken away or lifted there's there's actions that can take place as a result of those memberships councils but none of that is meant to be in any way shape or form the punishment payment or penalty for sin these these membership councils are councils of love to help the individual
to repent to help them to more speedily repent to help them to center their repentance and their focus on Jesus Christ and the others who he has suffered for which may have been the result of our sins yeah absolutely right I have been in one of those membership councils that you read that you refer to and because of my sins there was a disciplinary my membership was lifted for a time for a couple of years I was not of record a member of the church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and to some people and and for whatever reason I feel like I should say this and so maybe somebody needs to hear this but for some reason in fact my brother Brian who I was just released as a bishop in his ward not long ago was talking to somebody in our family at a family gathering about this very thing and I heard him say ask Scott and I said what are you talking about over there and he says well I am trying to
tell these guys that membership councils are a spiritual experience they're not a negative thing and he said you told me one time Scott that your membership council was one of the most spiritual experiences that you had ever experienced and he was accurate in that that was absolutely true because there are things that you know in our lives that it feels like even if we haven't damaged other people if or whatever but there are things in our lives
that sometimes there are there is a requirement of a deeper calling upon the name which it requires some assistance some power priesthood power etc. and so you know what if we can remember I never felt one time Dave and I mean this I never felt one time that being in that council was punishment for anything that I had done I saw that as a way to help me turn more fully to calling upon the Savior his name which would prepare me again in the
future at that point to participate again in ordinances etc. that would allow the full fullness of the atonement to be alive and well in my life now it was a full it was the fullness of the atonement was alive and well in my life at that time to otherwise the the events would not have been taking place but an important I think thing to note here is that even those even those disciplinary membership I guess I call them even those membership councils
are not punishment but an assistance in turning more fully to the Savior Jesus Christ totally and and thank you for sharing that Scott I know that's that's sacred and I've been involved kind of on the ecclesiastical end of dozens of those each of those membership councils and what you're describing your experience to be thank you is the result of your preparation for those councils and where you were at at the time in your life if you would have had
that council maybe a year or two earlier you maybe wouldn't have felt that but because you came to the council with a broken heart contrite spirit you did fill the Holy Ghost and and you did receive the real intent of those councils which is to help an individual to improve their relationship with Jesus Christ and to quickly speedily qualify them to be able to make the restitution necessary we'll talk about what that means later to be able
to participate in the ordinances and covenants of the gospel to make sure that they're worthy to do that and and I just am really grateful for the experiences I've had in all the membership councils I participated in and almost all of them almost all of them have really been spiritual experience in fact some of the greatest spiritual experiences of my life I think there there is some of the most spiritual meetings I've ever had in the church but not always
true I've had some really hard ones some really sad ones where individuals were not ready to do that where the church may be called them in where they didn't initiate it but because of things that they had done or especially in the cases of of of apostasy you know I've unfortunately had the experience of being involved in the case of many individuals some of them of some no notoriety who who have done some pretty awful things and and the church is
required to do that by the Lord to help to help those individuals to protect innocent victims and to protect the integrity of the church so none of that pays back anything in regards to what is required to meet the demands of justice to pay back or to be punished for our sins Jesus did all that he did all that 100% anything that we do in the church or individually should be to help an individual to understand the atonement of Jesus Christ
what he did suffer why he suffered who he suffered for and to help them to be able to accept that to feel gratitude for that and to access that power in their life I I want to share if I can quickly the analogy the beautiful analogy that Elder Anderson writes in his book about sin and suffering he he writes a person cannot suffer for his sins but he will suffer because of his sins there is always a punishment in sinning but the
punishment the suffering and the pain are caused by the sin not by the repentance when someone has cancer and surgery is required it is not the surgery that is the cause of the suffering it's the cancer the surgery is temporarily difficult but the cancer is the villain not the surgery sin causes suffering not repentance well I really love that because you know president Elton said repentance is joy repentance is joy it's synonymous with
joy it's not repentance is not the bad guy repentance is the good guy it's sin that causes us pain and sadness and it's sin that robs us of our peace repentance is to help us to restore all that but if you were the bad guy and you wanted to persuade people to not believe that you would make repentance the bad guy yeah which Satan is that a pretty good job has absolutely and especially the way he shames us yeah or especially the way
he gets us to shame ourselves and each other and each other and that's sad yeah yeah so number one what is repentance not so so important it's not a punishment not a penalty but repentance is what relieves the guilt and pain and suffering caused by sin exactly yeah so again let's ask ourselves the question what's the difference between suffering for our sins and suffering because of our sins I think that would be a great meditation throughout this week for
us to consider that what's the difference between suffering for your sins and suffering because of your sins Dave there's two others that we and Scott just we read that I want to remind our readers we just read in doctrine comes section 19 I think verse 20 yeah that the real suffering as the result of our sin the result this the suffering because of our sin is the loss of the Holy Ghost and the spirit of the Lord in our life the loss of
the light of Christ in our life I think that's important that they understand that that is most of the suffering is to lose the spirit yeah absolutely all right so we said that there are four things that it is not we've talked about one we have about 10 or 15 it's left I don't think we're going to get through all four and give them proper and give them the do that they deserve so let's talk next about the second one Dave repentance is not
absolutely not a checklist so you're telling me that it's not a bunch of steps we take and hoops we jump through we absolutely should not see it that way now I know in elder Anderson's book we discussed this too you know maybe a checklist is helpful to some people maybe some people that's their operating system well right they need a check I guess the way I'm referring to a checklist here is you know I have a checklist in the morning I get up
and I say my prayers and then I shower you know and those kind of things but it's not part I guess maybe I should say it this way repentance is not part of a checklist well so many people live their lives off of to-do lists and so to maybe to have a checklist of things that they need to do might be helpful and I've heard I've heard three hours I've heard five hours I even remember to talk many many years ago in my life this individual
really worked hard to come up with the eight hours of repentance but here was the tragedy in that the tragedy in the checklist and the chat tragedy of trying to put all of repentance listed by a word that begins with R and you have five or seven or eight or however many you can come up with in all of those cases Scott when I've heard a checklist to describe the process of repentance the R that never gets listed the I've never heard this are
in any of the great speeches and lectures on repentance is rely rely on your redeemer that that's the essence of repentance yeah and no one ever no one ever uses that as part of their checklist is to rely on their redeemer well that's because one thing does not make a checklist because that's really all we need is just that rely on our savior and redeemer that is repentance so in elder Anderson's list if those who need a list want to work
it's so cool how I think it's really beautiful how elder Anderson turned these five hours into a list that's focused on Christ so he says so he says in essence if you need a list okay then this is how you need to kind of see the list of repentance and he and he goes and gives them one recognize that what I have done recognize recognize what I've done is offended Jesus Christ okay so it's centered in Christ our recognition feel
remorse remorse remorse that our actions have offended God and cause Jesus Christ to suffer again focused in Jesus Christ resolve to change my behavior so resolve and realize that my own willpower is not enough and without the help of Christ I am powerless to repent reform okay if you need to reform then you need to appeal to the grace and for the grace of Jesus Christ his mercy and power to help me not repent repeat the past then he says make
restitution to those I've hurt and offended especially and more importantly the savior who suffered the pains of all my sins in this way I'm repenting so if we need an hour or you need a list of ours or whatever your list may be all of those must be centered in and focused on Jesus Christ in his atonement so repentance is not a checklist I think it's really important that we see repentance as a process and more of a condition than it
is an action I know there's actions involved in repentance but it primarily is a condition of that we call a broken heart and contrite spirit in fact in the Book of Mormon it talks five times about meeting the conditions of repentance not fulfilling the steps of repentance and it's the conditions of repentance that we should focus on not so much the steps of repentance at least I think that's how the Lord teaches it and the conditions of repentance
are primarily a broken heart and contrite spirit Paul describes it as being godly sorrow godly sorrow not worldly sorrow when we when we have those conditions of repentance and we meet the conditions of repentance the steps of repentance just seem to take care of themselves well I I do know this that as I've lived through my life and and I have a bit of a checkered past all by my own choice and you know obviously influenced by some of the conditions in my
life maybe perhaps as well but I do know that as I've gone through and as I have been taught and and chose to understand some of the things and I do take responsibility for my interpretation of what I was taught and chose sometimes to interpret repentance as that checklist I know that there were things on those did you say five hours I thought I remembered them being seven but whatever the case may be that I would look through those things and I would
feel like I'm not doing so well on that one but I've got the other ones covered and so you know maybe that's good enough and there's a big danger you know there is big danger in looking at our our our repentance process as simply a checklist you know we what happened for me and what I realized David it's not the process and it's not the churches and it's not the teachers fault for my interpretation of this but I know I'm not alone because learning
and thinking about repentance I and I'm going to strike that not learning but my interpretation of what I was taught thinking about repentance as a checklist it really actually delayed my true repentance yeah in a law in a in a big way well for sure I as a as a new missionary Scott trying to repent of my sins I just felt that I could not beat myself up enough right or be punished enough in order to be forgiven or to feel like I was worthy and I kept confessing
over and over and over again I kept writing letters home to my stake president which he never responded to for the first six months of my mission he in fact I'll never forget the letter I finally got from him I kept I kept writing home saying I don't feel really to be here president I don't feel really to be here maybe I should come home and I was working out you know as hard as I could and being obedient as I could and finally I get
this letter back from my dear sweet stake president who I who I still love and who I think actually gave me my patriarchal blessing yeah maybe this is initials SR yeah and anyway he finally wrote me and he said oh David I'm so sorry I found your letter at the bottom of pile of papers on my desk and you are worthy to be there in the view if you were honest with me you're absolutely and anyway so I that's the kind of that's kind of what I was
experiencing the first almost year of my mission yeah until finally after I think like the fifth reading of the Book of Mormon I I finally got it I discovered what I was missing in Enos amulet it was it was all through the Book of Mormon about what repentance is instead of me being so focused on what repentance is not that I finally had an experience where I knew I came to know in the in the early we morning hours after midnight in a little
boarding home in Pacific Grove California I knew that I had repented of my sins and that my efforts and especially the feelings and conditions of my heart were right and he he had accepted and that I was that I was forgiven that I I would never be perfect or sinless but I was worthy enough and it totally changed the projection of my of my mission and your life really and my life yeah yeah that's why this subject I think is so important
for me because I suffered over a year really if you take pre-mission to when I had that experience I I suffered a lot trying to pay for my sins not realizing or accepting or accessing the power of Christ his payment and his suffering for my sins well as we've talked about calling upon the name of Jesus as we've talked about what that begins to look like and motivates us and moves us into a more fulfilling a more complete coming unto
him as we've talked about and begin as we move into this repentance process we've talked about two really important concepts of what repentance is not we have more to go and we're going to cover those in upcoming podcasts obviously our next one we'll move into steps erics not steps but number three and four of what repentance is not I'll give you a little preview we're going to talk about how it is not changing be just changing behavior
and turning towards a savior and we're going to talk about how repentance alone repentance alone does not redeem us and so we'll get into those things in next week and in following weeks and so one other thing Scott is that we have to understand that repentance is not an institutional activity there you go yeah repentance is through the Lord Jesus Christ and him alone and the role of the church is to help members to understand that and help
them to activate the atonement and power of Jesus Christ in their lives it is not an institutional activity through the church I read one of the brother and had saved all these stories about I mean it was the thickest loosely if you can think of hundreds of stories about repentance and I went through and research those for a project and read all of those and pulled out the few I mean there were there were several but in relative comparison
to all of these hundreds of stories that had been preserved over the years it was really surprising and a little saddening how many had really focused their repentance in and through Jesus Christ and his atonement so many so many talked about how they had received forgiveness from the church and through the church and how how great they felt when they confessed their sins to their bishop and and I'm not saying that's not important I'm not
saying that's not part of the process I'm just saying that repentance is not just an institutional activity through the church it is almost completely absolutely it has to be centered in and focused on Jesus Christ and his atonement and that's the role of the church is to help individuals to learn that and to do that and to bring us unto him through it and I think that that's sometimes often misunderstood we'll get more into that too
as we conclude or complete this discussion around repentance what's obviously is going to take more than a couple of podcasts to do this is super important stuff that we're talking about here because one of the things that makes is so important David is it's so easily misunderstood I know I have you know you talk about my my story if it were at that time in that book that you just referenced I probably wouldn't have been one of those
that you would pull out as an example because that's my thinking that's my way and I know that many of our listeners are in the same process have the same thought process and we're trying to reconcile what repentance really is and I know for me sometimes when I look at these even when I teach these now in our Institute class that oftentimes I'll look at these and I will even feel a tinge of I don't know guilt or like I'm not quite
there's there's got to be more to it and then I have to bring myself back to center through a reminder a spiritual reminder typically sometimes that comes through my wife sometimes that comes through a thought or a feeling or in a prayer but I have to remind myself that these things are true that these things are actually accurate that what I have been conditioned or chose to condition myself to in the past is inaccurate and furthermore
more importantly dangerous dangerous to my progression along the path of calling upon his name there's unfortunately a lot of false traditions about what repentance is and what it looks like and what it's not and president Elton described a little bit this that it literally means right meto neho it means a metamorphosis it means a change and not just change of behavior which we'll talk about atheists can change their behavior but repentance
is a change of heart a change of mind a change of life a newness of life that that's what repentance is but but unfortunately when the Bible was translated the word met neho was changed in the Latin to poneteer poneteer I'm not sure if I'm by the way pronouncing those right I think it's perfect but but the Latin word they used in the early Latin Vulgate of the Bible literally meant to be punished repentance meant punishment yeah and
that's why Catholic inquisitions that's why there were other means where the Catholic church felt it was their role to punish sinners was because that's literally the word that they had mistranslated it to mean right well that that was a false tradition that is in some I guess religious traditions continues and unfortunately may maybe sometimes in our own church right individuals or even some priesthood leaders have made that mistake sometimes
innocently to think that that it's our role to punish ourselves or to punish others in the church for their sins that that is a gross miscalculation and understanding of what the atonement of Jesus Christ is and who and what it covers I'm so glad to know that it's just so hard the other way it's an impossibility for most humans to really turn to the Savior looking at things the way that I at least used to look at them and I'm grateful it's
it's it's what's the word you used it's so hard yeah well it's not only hard it's it's damning yeah it is damning it's damning it stops our ability and progress to really repent and to rely upon Jesus Christ and when that happens where we are unable incapable of having the spirit in its fullness in our lives which is the administrator of the atonement of Jesus Christ which does heal and comfort and provide miracle to so much in our lives that's out
of skew that this is the catalyst or the beginning or the the the kind of the center the hub if you will of where we begin to fully call upon him to fully take upon us his name to allow his spirit to be working and constant in our lives so that we can put on the atonement of Jesus Christ which will affect every other aspect of our life wow what a great time it's been to be with you again Dave I learned so much but above all I'm so grateful for the
spirit that attends us as we are here talking about these sacred things as we're here talking about a sacred solution to eternal life that invites us envelops us and in through our heavenly Father's spirit and ultimately and most importantly through the power of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as was enacted through his atonement allows us to become joint heirs and to allow allows us to have peace in this life and eternal life in the life to come thanks for being
with us it's been another great time to be together we look forward to many more of these in the again in the future until then though may God bless you may you fill his love and constant companionship of the spirit of the Holy Ghost as you put on the atonement of Jesus Christ in your own lives thanks for being here.