Hey there everybody and welcome out. We have another podcast here today. My name is Scott Durfey joined as always by my partner David Durfee. Say hi Dave. See you Scott everybody. Have a beautiful winter morning and hope that you're all doing well. I've been thinking Scott about life and sometimes you know we're thankful for life. But I was thinking this week that I need to be more thankful for my life. Even in our trials you know we all have different trials.
And not all of our lives are even close to being the same. And I was just thinking the other day and the spirit kind of washed over me. You need to be more thankful for your life. Find joy in your life not just in life in general. Well there's a load of wisdom in that and an indictment for me. Because I'm in the exact same boat. I've actually had in fact you know I talk often about how I do a 10th step inventory.
Which those of you who are unfamiliar with that you'll get familiar with it as we go along. But each night most nights and I've been pretty good at it since the first of the year. Each night I take a personal inventory of my character defects and even some of the things that are going right just so that I can keep this ship on track right. It's kind of like the daily repentance right. Yeah. That's all it really is. It's a conscious effort of daily repentance.
And then you know as part of that we're encouraged to when we're wrong or when we're amiss or things aren't in sort to just kind of promptly fix that. But I need to be more thankful for my life too. And so this is. I need to not just be thankful but find joy in my life. In my life. In what God has given me even in my trials and my tribulations. Yeah joy.
I don't know again I can't quit thinking about that scripture that President Nelson used several conferences ago describing how did Jesus how did how did he do the atonement. How did he have the power or strength to do the atonement. And he quotes that scripture in Hebrews right. That it was for the joy. Yeah. And he's saying wow he really stresses that that for the joy. Do you have it there. Yeah you have it right here in Hebrews 12 chapter 12 verse 2 actually.
It says looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross despising the shame and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. So who for the joy. For the joy set before him. So what was the joy. What do you think that joy was. The joy set before him was that the joy of him seeing the end.
Was it the joy of I mean when I say mean the end I mean eternity that he could see the effects of his sacrifice the effects of his suffering that he could see his his becoming glorified becoming like his father. Was that the joy that was set before him or or was it that the this the the healing and the the balm of Gilead and and the strength and mercy and grace that it provided me and you and all of us. What what was the joy that was set before him that gave him the motivation.
To endure the cross to endure it. Yeah I don't know I think that joy it's probably a culmination of many things right. But for me I think maybe that joy would come through our redemption. How seeing us redeemed seeing us redeemed seeing us enabled seeing us compensated for because of through the atonement through his atonement seeing those things but especially the redemption which enables us to become heirs joined heirs with Christ in the kingdom of God right. I wish we could all all see that.
Yeah me too. We you know see the joy that was set before him and see the joy that is set before us in our life. I you know I was feeling kind of sorry for myself actually this week you know with my with my son who's who's messed up on his parole and probation then he's gone back to a halfway house I mean he was headed back to prison but we were us talking to his the authorities we were able to get him in a halfway house.
But I don't know why this time it's different because this is a battle we've been kind of engaged in and a trial that's over several years now. But for some reason it just it just really kind of put me in a hole. I was trying to think about it and wondering why why is this time different and what is this I'm actually feeling because I just I wasn't I just so kind of down about it maybe even a little angry about it mostly because he wasn't being honest about it.
But anyway a lot of different parts to this and I'll just get to the point I was trying to verbalize what I was feeling to my sweetheart the other day as we were driving. I'd really thought about this and I said so Chris I just need to verbalize how I'm feeling and then please just listen. I started out by saying you know I don't feel any condemnation for our son. I don't feel any condemnation. I'm his dad. I'm not his judge. So I there's no condemnation.
What I am feeling is complete devastation. And you know as I was talking it through and I said I don't even feel desperation. There's no despair. I was actually thinking of scripture in Moroni I think it's 1022 that despair cometh because of iniquity and I didn't want to be guilty of that.
I think really all desperation, despair is the result of sin and iniquity or the lack of faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement or not receiving in our lives the grace and mercy compensatory blessings that are available to us. So I understand despair was not something that I wanted to feel either and I wasn't really when I thought about it consciously but I was feeling devastation and then I said and I'm feeling frustration. I'm feeling devastation. I mean we were we'd bought him a new car.
We were going to get him in a in a in a condo or buy him a trailer or we were going to do all these things Scott to get him on his two feet again and help him to be independent believing that he had surely learned his lesson and that he wouldn't do those things again ever and then I just realized wow it's not he's not fixed and it was just devastating to me and so I've just been thinking about this a lot this week about so I went through
this pity party kind of right and something of a you know feeling sorry for myself I guess to some degree as well as frustration in his lack of accountability and lack of honesty but I think it's important for us as individuals and as parents to understand the difference between these terms. Frustration is really not appropriate. Devastation is I think part of life because of expectations and no condemnation no condemnation and however lots of frustration.
Yeah. So I don't know I've been trying to deal with all those emotions this week and then it then it hit me you need to be you need to find joy in your life and I had a dear friend who who was really down this week they have a youth a young man in their family a son who was going to go on a mission he's had lots of problems right and he was going to go on a mission and he yeah he was ready to go and it was some great miracle right and then this
week he I saw them and the father said he's not going to go and I could see just the father was so devastated so down and and I was going through this too right but then it came into my mind Scott this amazing talk that given by Elder Rasband he gave us talk to seminaries and institute teachers evening with the General Authority you can find it on a broadcast on the church website and I think it was back in 2019 darn it I didn't put down the year
but it's an evening with General Authority Elder Rasband and he talks about the the challenges of our youth and even suicide that he was on a commission appointed by President Nelson to be on this state commission representing the church on how to help our youth who who struggle with suicide and he talked about Jesus is always the answer Jesus is always the answer and not just for our children Scott but when we feel devastated when we feel frustrated
it Jesus we we always we know Jesus is there for our children if they would just take advantage of it right yeah that's right and then we're all depressed because of our children and we're not feeling any joy in my life because of my children or because of others who I love who are making bad choices and so they're killing my joy in my life circumstances in my life and we should all we should all remember but it's hard to remember when you're so close
to it you know and this this good friend of mine was was a bishop and he knows and I turned to him I said so you need to read this talk Jesus is the answer and I said and it's not just for your son you need to read the talk because Jesus is the answer for what you're feeling right now and then it hit me that that was really for me and since I have thought about the atonement of Jesus Christ more the latter half of the week than I did the first
half of the week my prayers are more meaningful I feel more joy I feel more spirit my spirits are being more lifted I just we just have to really remember and exercise our faith in that Scott that because of the joy set before him and we need to exercise that in our lives as well so find joy in your life and understand the difference between desperation and devastation and condemnation and frustration so let's take a second first off that's a
great talk Jesus Christ is the answer that's a February of 2019 you can find that just Google it or go to the church website great great broadcast yeah so let's talk just a second Dave what is devastation look like how does that feel to you when you say I recognize I'm devastated I want to know what does that mean it's it kind of puts you in a hole just a feeling then it's just it's just a cloudy like foreboding feeling yeah I didn't feel
like I was in darkness but I felt like I was in a fog yeah and I was just oh man you lose some hope really yeah you know you're I didn't I don't think I lost complete hope I think that's desperation yeah but but I lost some hope and you just really feel this sadness yes yeah yeah I and there's a reason I ask that you know because of my involvement in recovery groups for the last 24 years helping myself not others I don't want anybody to
misunderstand I'm going there for me I'm not a professional counselor or anything like that I'm a professional drinker who hasn't drank since 1998 because of that but I go there and I and I see even though you're sponsoring yeah what eight guys yeah something like that and you know but I still go I even do that for me I don't sponsor I mean I do for them but it's my program you know I'm getting a little tiny bit off track here but I do need
to clarify that when I sponsor somebody that's me working my program that's not me working their service the joy set before you step 12 in Alcoholics Anonymous is really an emphasis on helping others right yeah but it's my step 12 it's not their step 12 it's my step 12 that I'm doing but as I do this I hear desperation I see desperation and I hear devastation and I see devastation and in to me is I'm working and as I'm observing and as you know not just
in my own life but observing these concepts and phenomenon and other people's lives the difference to me between those two is devastation there is still hope if it's just this devastation you know if you can combine that that's what I've concluded this yeah if you can if you can combine that devastation with and that's why you know when when we work the 12 steps about Alcoholics Anonymous that's why the first step is is just an admission that I can't
right came to I am not I'm powerless over alcohol my life's become a manageable and the second one is is I come to believe that there's somebody who can yeah Jesus Christ that's what this whole podcast is about for me and for many other Christian alcoholics across the world that's what it is and then the third one is is we turn our will in our life over to the care of God as we understand him which is what that is then those devastations
have hope desperation not much but we do consider often desperation is one of the four horsemen in Alcoholics Anonymous which can through the right lens also be a gift can also be a gift because you know we we often refer to it as the gift of desperation and they and the key to understanding the gift of desperation and how that can become a gift is really and will transition now into our topic but it's really it really pivots on the success behind
that if that can be a gift or not really pivots on beginning to see ourselves for who we really are well and and rely not on our own strength or the arm of the flesh but rely wholly on the merits of he who is mighty to save correct well I I have learned in the past Scott with all that I've been through with with being a dad and and having children which we'll all have in this world just well and you have other experiences that go beyond that too
because of your service and leadership positions in the yeah absolutely I've seen it so much in the church and in church councils and other other means and other other friends and loved ones but anyway I've just come to the conclusion really that that I know from experience that you can have joy in sorrow if you're focused on Jesus Christ that's right and you can even have peace in tribulation and turmoil if you're focused on Jesus Christ you can even have
peace in devastation Dave well that's what I forgot yeah well I I just you know we're just all sinners helping sinners here right and the fall and all of that kind of got the best of me the fall of others and my own personal fall and I just I do think it's okay to feel devastation that's nice right it's natural and it's motivating well like or and it can be motivated without condemnation so I just thought it was kind of interesting for me
that as I communicated that to my sweetheart what I kind of learned from all of that and I don't want to forget what I've learned what a gift what a gift sometimes our greatest gifts come through work through things that may be a little uncomfortable through you know what I mean it well for sure the greatest lessons we'll ever learn in this life come to us from trials and tribulations and that's how we that's how we grow and that's how we
progress and that's just part of mortality right yeah well and it's a testament to that we're all human we're all mortal you've been teaching the atonement of Jesus Christ and the power from it for over 30 years you've lived it and I've been a witness to you living it for your whole life or at least my whole life and you know we just never quite arrive in this life do we even the even the prophets yeah right can for a moment have a little
bit of a forgetting and I love that I actually we don't believe anybody's infallible in this life and everybody church leaders and others and I guess everybody except the Savior himself right you know yeah probably have had a pity party in their life and Scott the greatest lessons we learned in our pre mortality were the result of adversity yeah the war in heaven that's right that's what we talked about last week that adversity there and how it affected
us and how we chose to follow him we began to establish our identity as sons of and daughters of Christ even in pre in our pre mortal life we began to commit to looking for and searching out to remembrance of our testimony which we talked about last week we all of these things that are just part of the grand plan of happiness David that you know that makes that makes compensation and makes room for our pity parties that makes room for our devastation
and all the other trials that we feel think how sad that must have been for us and the tears that must have been shed in heaven when one third of the host of heaven our spirit brothers and sisters God's spirit sons and daughters one third of them who rejected him as their father and followed an evil person who wanted to overthrow God eventually I think that was I don't know that that he actually came out and said that but I believe in his
heart of hearts that was his motive and intent was to overthrow the plan of God thus overthrowing God himself and him replacing him as the God of the universe now even though that was a philosophical impossibility I believe that Satan who was a liar from the beginning father of all eyes that he you know and this is what happens right when you when you lie enough you end up believing your lies and I believe he believed he could do it even though it
was all a lie everything about him was a lie but he was so persuasive and one third of the host followed him and I as I thought over the years Scott about how could how why would one third follow him well other than his his what's his flattery which he must have used there because he we know he uses it here his deception which he used there because we know he uses it here that his his ability to get others to follow him must have been based
to some degree upon the fears that maybe some people had there that some had allowed fear to enter their hearts because they wondered if they could really make it in mortality they knew it was going to be hard we must have had a glimpse of some of our adversities and tribulations and the the the war that would actually be continued here up on earth and we must have had some fears and doubts perhaps over there and those who he influenced
the most were those who had the most fear and doubt and he told this whether it was about force and coercion and keeping commandments maybe there was a group that believed that and he knew they would believe that and they would like that and that's what he did I don't know because I hear that word taught often in the church but I prefer to believe that he persuaded most people over there in the pre-mortal existence to follow him because
he told them that they didn't need a savior they didn't need a redeemer there wouldn't be any commandments there would be no accountability they could do anything they wanted short of a mortal free for all the church of what's happening now yeah do your own thing and I'll save you yeah and I'll get the glory and others looked at that as a very appealing opportunity and so they followed him that he made it look easy he made it look like that would be the
easy road and it seems like to me most of his temptations and the sins and addictions here are based upon that same lie so anyway that war in heaven continues and we talked a little bit about that and how we overcame him there through the blood of the lamb the atonement of Jesus Christ our Savior through the word of their testimony and they love not their lives under the death that's Revelation chapter 12 verse 11 and and if we're going
to overcome him here the way we overcame him there if we're going to be victorious in this war that continues in mortality that all started in pre-mortal existence then we need to focus on those three things and I think the first one's the most important actually is through the blood of the lamb through the word of our testimony and then to be so committed that for the joy that set before us that we're willing to go to the wall or even die for
what we know to be true if we'll do that we can flourish in this life Scott the pre-moral existence is is real to me and I think it's such an important part of our identity and I had an experience some time ago with that giving a patriarchal blessing to a young woman but before I jump into that story any thoughts yeah I do you mentioned that you know in the in the war in heaven it was a philosophical impossibility what Satan was proposing and
under religious and a spiritual impossibility and all those other things it was an impossibility well the the same tactic he uses today and he's getting a second chance at some of us you know we were all there and you know some of us and it and I get I get sick when I think about I wonder if any of my pre-mortal friends went the other way I you know and it's silly to think about that but it's a realistic it's a I think about those things you know I wonder
if I had friends and if I did did they know me and if I did are they still trying to get me to come their way you know and and and I think that that philosophical impossibility that religious that that spiritual impossibility that we were that was that was propagated and perpetuated there is being perpetuated here today in mortality as well and because of the fall that is allowed to continue to take place we're going to get into the fall
and its effects in a in a upcoming episode and we'll talk about that in in more detail later but that that philosophical impossibility that religious and spiritual impossibility that so many of our brothers and sisters bought into their still being bought into today it is yeah and it's just all lie yeah and you know I think Alma kind of said this right in Alma chapter 42 verse 10 there's there's no there's no happiness and wickedness you
can't sin and be happy you can't do wrong and feel right you you will never find joy true joy in in the pleasures of sin and it's just so important I think that we distinguish between joy and pleasure in this life and Satan's just so smooth so sophisticated on trying to get us to to find pleasure comfort and ease you know it's the eat drink and be merry with no responsibility and yeah God will beat us with abuse drives and there's
no big deal and we really talked a lot about it you know last week I believe or maybe it was the week before when we talked about an intentional life but either way you know there's so much spiritual relativity now that you know is and I think that's what I think that's an example of a philosophical religious spiritual impossibility yeah anyway yeah I wanted to I just wanted to touch on that because I felt like those were things that stood out to me
and I just wanted to kind of emphasize that further but I'm anxious to hear about your story well identity as we talked about last week I think determines eternity and it's such an important part of the plan of redemption to know who we are to know that we are sons and daughters of God and that he loves us just a thousand thousand times a thousand more than mortal parents good mortal parents can love their children here I mean God is
he is intentional and intense in his love for us I know that and I know it all started in the pre-mortal existence and everything that he's done to carry out the plan of redemption even the plot the whole plan of redemption itself is is is done and carried out because of his love for us it's amazing the giving the gift of his son you know as John wrote it so eloquently in John 3 16 for God so loved the world so loved the world each of us that
he gave his only begotten son sacrificed him that whosoever believed in him would have everlasting life who they would not perish and they would have everlasting life anyway I am really thankful for that plan of redemption and to know who we are and that we lived with him and that we experienced what the atonement of Jesus Christ and the love of God even in the pre-mortal existence I think just really an important part to strengthen us here that
we that we fought this war in heaven and that we were warriors and defenders of the faith I've used that term quite a bit in some patriarchal blessings I've given I gave a blessing not very long ago and told this young woman that she was an organizer in the pre-mortal existence and that she should or be an organizer here in righteousness and organize individuals here to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ but this is early on when many years ago when
I was first called to be a patriarch fairly early within the first year or two I had a young woman call me up one Sunday afternoon she said I need to schedule get a patriarchal blessing and she sounded a little bit older so I was just asking about her and wanting to get to know her a little bit and in our phone interview and she told me explained to me that she had not been church in 16 years that she had had two children out of wedlock
after leaving the church it's the age of 16 and that one of her children was now eight years old she wanted to get her baptized and so she went back to church and she this young woman was 32 years old and she said I was so I went to church today took my two daughters for the first time and the bishop came down and talked to me I told her that I wanted to get my little girl baptized and he called me in the office and in our conversation he
said have you received your have you ever received a patriarchal blessing and she said no and he said well I think you should get one and after visiting with her he gave her a recommend to get a patriarchal blessing and she calls me and so we schedule it a few weeks out and the day arrived and she came and I wasn't shocked but when I opened the door there stood this beautiful young woman covered with tattoos and piercings wearing
her hair in dreadlocks and I invited her in and we went into my office and we talked some more and and I felt impressed that today was the day that God wanted to give her a blessing and felt was filled with God's love for her as soon as I put my hands on her head and this doesn't always happen Scott it's happened a few other times but not to the same detail as this as this one I could see her in her pre-mortal existence as a young as a young
girl dressed in a white dress playing she was playing in the pre-mortal existence and just running around playing and I could I could see her characteristics and get a glimpse of her personality there and then I became aware off to the off to the side her heavenly parents looking upon her and smiling then all of this vision came to me as I am in the beginning of her patriarchal blessing and I'm trying to describe it and I keep using
the word delight how her heavenly parents delighted in her in her pre-mortal existence and then at one point I just really felt impressed that God had a message for her and I had to say it in this way and I never said it since that I had never said it before and I said Heavenly Father wants you to know that you are one of his favorites and that he has never been mad at you and at that point her head just fell into her lap I mean my my hands
were suspended in midair because she she was overcome by the spirit and she just fell into a heap and just wept and I remember thinking oh oh the love of God for his children we were both overcome by that the feeling of his love for his children and I remember thinking even Scott in those few moments you know when she was weeping I remember thinking wow if he's never been mad at her he's probably never been mad at me if he hasn't been mad at her
he's probably never been I know he hasn't been mad at my wife I he hasn't been mad at any of my kids and I just this this vision and this experience gave me a taste of the love and the character of God how fiercely he loves his children in all their different conditions and circumstances and anyway I was thinking all of those thoughts in those few moments of silence and she sat back up and the blessing continued and it was a beautiful
blessing and I know her I don't know where she is now but I know that she will never forget what we both shared and felt that day and on a sunny Sunday afternoon many years ago.
What a great experience for you and her right and actually you know for all of us because I think that's not a uncommon worry for those of us who have sinned which includes all of us I know some of us feel like maybe we have to a greater degree than others and find it kind of difficult to understand or believe that how can I be one of his favorites and how could he not be mad at me I mean I have literally intentionally even in some cases
you know been so disobedient and yeah what a great experience I'm glad you had that so that the truth is we're all his favorites yeah and I think the truth is Scott that he's never been mad at us individually I've come to the conclusion personally as I read and understand the scriptures that the divine wrath of God which we read about in the scriptures especially the Old Testament and other places the divine wrath of God or sometimes even
maybe described as God's anger is never about an individual or one of his children it's about a whole society or a whole large group of people who are not taking care of his children the divine wrath of God is totally out of love for his children when when the earth became so wicked that he had destroyed it by a flood it was it was it wasn't because he was mad at them or lost control it was because he couldn't take away their agency
and they had become so wicked that children born on the earth in those days never would have a shot idolatry had completely covered the earth and they had become so wicked in their human children sacrifice and abuse that God cannot send children to this earth without them being hurt that's when his anger or divine wrath takes over is because or out of the love for his children and when you understand that that characteristic of God like we talked
about last time when you comprehend when you begin to comprehend the character of God you should begin to comprehend yourself right when you when you understand how fiercely he loves you that should tell you something about who you are as a child of God so I just think is it really important that we all of us try to understand you know his character and how much he loves us I think that oftentimes it's easy for individuals myself included often
to see God's love and other people to have somebody for example come to me and has you know just had a horrible life their life has been so full of conditions that has been so stacked against them abuse and all kinds of other things and yet they they can as we start talking about this these kinds of things in recovery because it's important for us to understand God and have that concept otherwise that's third step where we turn our will in
our life over them him will be incomplete if we don't understand him at least a little bit properly but it's so easy for us to see for me in the past and sometimes still how much God loves you or how much God would even though even though I know all this garbage about you it's easy for me oftentimes to see how much God loves you but Satan still is working that you know working user Scott the accuser is accusing me and so I can see it
in you so to speak but it becomes so so much more difficult sometimes Dave for me to see it in me why would you why is that I know it's so it's so sad I've heard individuals in the church one who was served in a presidency of Relief Society years ago when I was in a bishopric and you know and and this sweet woman said to my wife and I I have never felt the love of God I that just it just it really hit me hard that some people for whatever
reason and I don't know Scott the I think it gets kind of complicated because I think sometimes out of abuse manipulation relationships other relationships they have with their father or their husband or men in general or I can get kind of complicated it can and there's about why people don't feel the love God I had a friend in Japan who would always call me up and say now tell me again how much God loves me because he was raised by a Shinto
father who was so authoritative and so manipulative that he he had kind of what's the psychological term that that he had kind of transplanted his feelings for his father earthly father towards his heavenly father and it was really hard for him to see a father as one who was kind and loving and compassionate towards him as a son and I think because of the fall of Adam and Eve that we all maybe have a tendency to have that we are cut off but because of
the spiritual death were cut off from his presence and a remembering is in our future hopefully if we don't have that remembering in our future then we unfortunately will live a life that is untethered in without direction which will bring nothing but devastation like we talked about earlier to us that's right Scott and the accuser of our brethren that amazing title given to Satan by John in the book of Revelation you know Satan the accuser
is always telling accusing us God doesn't love you you're not worthy of his love you'll never be worthy of his love who do you think you are and he always accuses us yeah and you know and for some of us you know this is so this is where for me this is where I really struggle with the accuser often still is if they only knew if those that you serve really knew about you or or you know you're I'm called to a position I wonder if my stake
president really knows about me I wonder we've all had those yeah yeah yeah I mean I'll be going I'm going to the temple this afternoon it's our work conference this week and we've all committed as a war council to do that but there will be time and I go out of town this weekend so I won't be able to attend with the rest of them but there will be times when I'm sitting in the temple David and and I can hear the accuser when I'm sitting in
the temple Scott you don't belong here yeah sometimes you carry those thoughts in there with you yeah yeah it's so so hard and sad because of the experiences that we have here in mortality all of us have our own little secrets right our own dirty secrets that we put in the closet yeah and and they keep us a little bit sad ours ours our sins yeah often we shame ourselves over and over and over again we'll talk later in this course since
this is a course on repentance and forgiveness I I'm anxious to have that discussion the difference between guilt godly sorrow and guilt and shame you know shame is from Satan and guilt is from God and guilt's positive and shame is negative but it's amazing how he shames us yeah and keeps us from feeling the love of God well furthermore it's amazing how we're we allow that to take place in ourselves even with our testimonies even with the knowledge
that we do have you know yeah and he any masks our identity Scott I mean he is the great we we have a problem in this country in the world as far as identity theft it's a major problem right now right and he's the master thief of identity and if he can get us to not understand who we are meaning including meaning and including our pre-mortal existence who we were there and how we defeated him there and how fierce we were there on accepting
and following and defending the plan of redemption and our savior and redeemer if he can get us to to never see that to never believe that and to just go based upon the fallen mortal experiences we have here then he's already stolen our identity it's just so important that we try to understand who we were in the pre-mortal existence and how valiant and true and noble and faithful we were there I hadn't planned to talk about this but I read an article
this morning I sent you a copy of it to you know in 1990 something I can't quote exactly but in 1990 something that opiate opioid pandemic started and white man that's this cross section I'm not I'm not differentiating but that was the article the cross section that was studied was white men between the ages of 45 and 65 I believe and what we have seen happen is an increase in what they call deaths of desperation and this is what's the source this was from
so I got this from market watch which is I it's market watch I had to do some financial research this morning for a thing I had to do but then this is based on a study yeah a study this is just reporting on that study and and and what they have found you know to kind of summarize their summarizing but what I'll do is even further summarize but what what it boils down to is we have seen an exit from religion or in a conscientious
effort to separate ourselves from anything godlike including religion and things of that nature and since that has happened to see they they they noticed that during this period of time there was an increase in mortality of that cross section white men 45 to 65 I believe and but what they went back and further studied is because this phenomenon that we are experiencing now with people leaving religion like crazy we're calling it the great exit
right I mean people are leaving religion completely and we see it a lot in in our church we do but it's not just our church but I mean I read the reports too and and though not just relieving religion yeah but leaving behind their belief in God yeah that and that's it that's the main thing that's the main thing is you know that their belief in God the religion helps us create a relationship with God but a belief in God it just at the core is missing
and what they have found is is those deaths that have been spiking and I can't tell you exactly the percentage increase but it's devastating the percentage increase in what we call deaths of desperation and so a death of desperation is a suicide it's a death that's been propagated because of a an addiction you know alcoholism abuse all of those things you know spousal abuse all desperation deaths of desperation well they've gone up since we've noticed or
since they've noticed in this paper the exit from religion and so as men in that cross section we're exiting religion exiting a relationship with God so to speak their the mortality rate in what we call deaths of desperation we're going up and Satan laughs yeah like he does in Moses yeah right we read in Moses yeah that he when when the world is being destroyed by a flood yeah Satan's got a chain in his hand and he laughs yeah but he doesn't win
Scott no he can win now he doesn't know that because he's such a liar that he he somehow again believes he can pull it off here even though he failed there and he's gonna fail here that even all of those who are involved in deaths of desperation they're gonna they're redeemed they're redeemed they're gonna be resurrected they're gonna have the opportunity to repent in the spirit world they're gonna have experiences there that it's not over
it's not over Scott until it's over and when Jesus Christ said my work is not over until I have saved all of God's children Wow you know that's that's a quote I don't have it right here in front of me but that's a quote from Joseph F Smith who was who I loved the story told by Boyd K Packer quoting Harold B Lee quoting Joseph F Smith and this is the story Boyd K Packer said he was a new general authority he was with Harold B Lee who wasn't
at the time president of the church but was an apostle training Boyd K Packer the new newest general authority and there they've gone to visit some stakes and they're in a motel room and Boyd K Packer says his phone rings and he answers the phone and it's Elder Elder Lee Harold B Lee and Elder Lee says Boyd Boyd come in come over here come over to my room and so Boyd goes over to his room and he described Elder Harold B Lee in his
in his robe he's wearing this big night robe and he says listen to this Boyd listen and Harold B Lee reads from Gospel Doctrine the book which is a compilation of all of Joseph F Smith's writings and teachings and he quotes that amazing quote which is one of my favorite that Jesus's work will not be finished until all of God's children are saved now Scott I don't know what that means and I know that even those in the T. Luscious Kingdom are
saved even they get some glory those who go to outer darkness I wouldn't consider their saved but they they are saved from death they are redeemed from death and who knows what will be their end we don't really know Scott I once asked the brother Matthews who wrote the Bible dictionary what's the end result of sons of perdition and he quoted the scripture in Doctrine and Covenants section 29 why don't you turn there and we should read this because
he is section 29 is actually these verses are describing the sons of perdition then he said well this is this is what the all the Lord has said about it I mean we do we really don't know you know the the final judgment or when it's or when it is all going to be over we don't really know and so this is verse 29 or sorry section 29 verse 28 28 yeah yeah it says wherefore I will say unto them and that's those who go to outer darkness right
okay wherefore I will say unto them depart from me you cursed it you curse it into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels and now behold I say unto you never at any time have I declared from mine own mouth that they should return for where I am they cannot come for they have no power okay so they have no power they keep they keep he says I have never I've never declared from my mouth that they should return but he doesn't say that
they shouldn't either right and then look at verse 30 but remember that all my judgments are not given unto man there you go and as that was brother Matthew's answer to me yeah David he said the Lord has not given us all his judgments for obviously a wise purpose he has not told us everything we don't know the whole story we don't know really how it ends and I just I just find hope in that that that Jesus Christ is is not going to be finished
with his work until all the children of men all of God's sons and daughters have had every opportunity every possible chance of turning back to him as their father that's how much God loves his children Scott that's and he is so intentional about that sending his son sending the gospel I think sometimes people are born in this world who don't enjoy all the blessings of the gospel because God loves them and he doesn't want to hold them to a
higher level of accountability everything that God does for his children is because he loves them and that that leads us to that amazing scripture in 2nd Nephi Scott chapter 28 I believe I this is always my go-to scripture that so many things that we don't understand even sometimes policies and practices in the in the church and and events world events and world scripture so many difficult questions that we can't answer and yet I think that
this this scripture answers it so in in 2nd Nephi chapter 26 verse 24 kind of my go-to scripture to answer some of my own questions and sometimes problems and questions of others and there are so many circumstances and situations that we don't know why it's that way but here's here's the principle and the pattern and the absolute truth so 2nd Nephi 26 verse 24 he doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world for he loveth the world even
that he layeth down his own life that he may draw all men unto him wherefore he commandeth none that they shall not partake of his salvation think of that yeah that's uh quite remarkable think of that Scott yeah quite remarkable God doesn't do anything nothing nothing save it be for the benefit of Scott Durfee David Durfee my children your children the world because he loved he loves us we sure get spiritual amnesia don't we we talked about that last week a little bit remember right if we could
just remember who we are if we could just not take ourselves so doggone serious you know now Golic's anonymous we have a rule rule number 64 don't take yourself so darn serious you know and I think that that's um I think that's important for us I I you know you started this podcast today talking about some feelings that you had been having about Isaac uh your son yeah and you used the word devastation and I think we can all to some
level or some degree relate to that and it occurs to me David that oftentimes we feel that in our lives not because necessarily we sometimes do because of what's happening in our own lives but the devastation that a parent feels because of what's happening in a child's life is pretty much undescribable and it's because of love I wonder if when we fully embrace the atonement of Jesus Christ and all that it is I and we begin to work
it in our own lives first and as an example another thing that I learn in alcoholics anonymous is so important for me is that we um put principles before personalities you know so I'm not worried so much about learning um or or the personalities or what's happening with other people so much as what's happening in my own life you know and if I apply the principles of the atonement of Jesus Christ in my own life then the devastation that I I I believe that I'm perceiving among
his children which may include my own children uh you know it might be just a little bit differently viewed yeah and I'm grateful for that today yeah well um we are sons and daughters of God Scott and he loved us so much that he gave us a plan not only a general plan of happiness or the great plan of happiness or the plan of salvation or the plan of redemption or the plan of mercy but he gave you a plan he gave me a plan all of his children have
a plan and the atonement of Jesus Christ I mean that's the objective of this course the objective of this course is how can we draw on the power of Jesus Christ through his redeeming blood his entire plan was based upon that event we were able to conquer Satan in the pre-mortal existence through the blood of the lamb we will conquer him here in this life because of the blood of the lamb and it will go on and on in infinite atonement
but what's really motivating and the power behind all of this is God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son think of it I mean and and the great prototype in the scriptures is right Abraham Abraham when he was asked to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice I mean I think anybody who reads those chapters in Genesis they have father kind of puts themselves or a mother I think Sarah knew about that by the way and I I think Sarah went along
with that and I did believe mother in heaven went along with all of this plan of course that their firstborn in the spirit world he who was more intelligent than them all Jesus Christ they would sacrifice him on an altar for us for us for all of the rest of us individually infinitely and intimately for us right and the sacrifice was done for us regardless of what and who we are absolutely but knowing who we are and knowing our worth that begins
to qualify us so we all know this scripture in the doctrine covenant section 18 verse 10 Scott if if you want to just just turn there and it says for the worth of souls is great in the sight of God we all know that scripture for the worth of souls is great in the sight of God but nobody everybody can quote I think that or we are we're all aware of that but what does verse 11 say Scott for behold the Lord your Redeemer suffered death
in the flesh wherefore he suffered the pain of all men that all men might repent and come unto him so what's our worth it's immeasurable because a God gave his life for you and he gave his life for me my life was worth the life of a God the worth of souls is great because he was willing to sacrifice and die and give his life for me when we begin to understand that part of our identity and our infinite worth it it really changes everything
that's that's the motivation I think the the power that we need to be able to continue to to love him because we know he loved us first and to follow him and to repent and to strive to keep his commandments which I hope we can all do and it all boils down to our identity our identity will determine our eternity you know we've we have so many tools in front of us and I really hesitate to use the word tools but I don't know what else
to use in place of that because you know we have the we have the the spirit that you know as we partake of the sacrament and we renew covenants and we're going to talk about so important not we're going to not talk about not just his name but how do we take his name upon us how do we enter those covenant relationships and what all does that entail and what does that mean and as we begin to build gift on gift and precept on precept and and mercy
on mercy and merit his merit on merit not our own man I think that it's difficult once we begin to understand those things and really take them in and be honest about a relationship with those ideas it's difficult for us to look in the mirror and see anything but you know absolute divinity yeah and and going to the house of the Lord going to the house of the Lord I think the great motivation for me when I go to the house of the Lord is I
get to hear the voice of God right I hear the voice of the son I get a glimpse into their love for me that they were willing to send Adam and Eve down here and that Adam and Eve were willing to sacrifice that they were willing to leave the garden for me so that we could experience mortality so that we could experience the trials and tribulations and all that mortality provides us and a Redeemer and everything everything in the temple is
centered around the atonement of Jesus Christ we spend a lot of time on the fall which we'll spend a whole podcast on in the coming weeks but when I when I go to the temple and hear the voice of God and consider all that he's done for me and the great plan of redemption a man it is a that's why President Nelson right tells us about this spiritual momentum and the blessings that we receive when we go to the house of the Lord so tools that's
just another tool he's given us so many tools to feel his love the word of the Lord we can feel his love when we read the scriptures prayer we can feel his spirit when we serve and and serve in the church and magnify calling so all that music inspired music can help us to feel the love of God and the power of Christ in our life so you're right about that and everything Scott is to help us man is Adam failed that men might be and men are
that they might have joy in my life Scott I love my life yeah because I know God loves me and has a plan for me I got it I got a cute little story maybe then I'll be done I love this little story I heard Joseph Philly McConkie tell this story and he was a great he was the son of Bruce R McConkie who was the son-in-law of Joseph Fielding Smith Bruce R McConkie's wife was the daughter of the president of the church and Joseph F McJoseph
F McConkie was the oldest son of Bruce R McConkie and he was giving a primary talk one day and you'd have to kind of know his personality he was kind of he was a lot like elder McConkie he was strong and bold and came off as being kind of sometimes a little brash which they weren't they're very loving and humble but anyway he stands up to give a primary talk when he was like eight or nine years old then he stands up and he says my granddad is the
president of the church I'm the grandson of the president of the church and he went on and gave his talk you know his little primary talk he said the girl that got up to give the talk after me the two and a little half two and a half minute talk she got up and she said well I'm a child of God wow yeah there's some perspective for you and he it totally just really even as a young child it really affected him wow I am a child of
God Scott I know that's true in my in my heart and spirit and I just I know that's true we are sons and daughters of loving heavenly parents and and it makes all the difference knowing that that they love me even in my extremities in my sins in my deficiencies in all of the the the phoniness and fake things that I go through in this life and the hard things and the bad things and they still love me I know they love me I know it's universal
I know it's eternal and that they're intentional and they're intense in their love for me and that that gives me the motivation I need to repent and to seek the power of Christ in my life so that I can return and live with them and my family right I love that and you know you say them that gives you the motivation and I and I love that too and for me it actually empowers me to right to know who I am gives me the power that is lacking that you know
we hear about of the sons of perditions they don't have the power to come where I am and and I'm grateful for that today I'm grateful to as I as my identity becomes more clear and it's easier for me to to align myself with my heavenly father's will when my identity becomes more clear to me I'm grateful that we've had a I'm grateful that we've had this opportunity to talk about these so important things our identity and and really find a
joy in our own life and and how do we how do we deal with devastation and the difference between that and desperation and you know I think I might just extend an invitation right here to our listeners David as we go through this week particularly after and in preparation for taking the sacrament this week as we do that I invite us all to have a notebook or or maybe somewhere on our phone where we can record it's an interesting exercise
I've done this before and I ask others to do it oftentimes in recovery as well but just for this week if we would just take a minute and record the the opportunities that we have had during a day or during the week to feel Heavenly Father's love for us to have a glimpse of who we are and we start writing those things down that I find that the more I focus on those there's a there's real power and focus the more I focus on those the more real they
become to me thank you Scott that's a great invitation thank you yeah let's do it all right gang thanks for being with us this week we look forward as always to being with you again next week as well just another invitation if you will for those of you who have suggestions or questions please don't hesitate to send those to us you can do it at he redeems us at gmail.com thanks for being with us