Music Hi everybody and welcome to Redeemed Through His Blood. In this podcast we discuss hope, healing and redemption through the atonement of Jesus Christ. My name's Scott Durfey. I want to introduce my partner in this project, our more than capable teacher, Brother David Durfey. Say hi, Dave. I'm so thankful to be here, Scott. Good morning everybody. I look forward to our discussion and topic today.
Maybe the most important lesson I've ever learned in my life has to do with what we're going to talk about today. I would probably endorse that whole hearted leave from my own life experience as well, Dave. We're both really excited to talk about what we're talking about today. We're approaching this topic with a lot of care and a lot of prayer and seeking a lot of direction from our Heavenly Father as we do it. We hope that it touches your hearts the way that it has touched ours over our lives.
Before we get started though, I want to just thank you for the emails that we've received. We have received a lot of great emails and appreciate it. I know some of those have been helping us to have ideas to maybe even get better. A brother from Wyoming has sent us a request and I think that we're going to be able to figure out a way to accommodate that eventually down the road. So thank you for that and all others.
Also, we want to thank you for the questions that you've been sending us that have to do with the topics that we've been discussing. We look forward to implementing and integrating those questions. We'll even deal with a few of them completely directly in episodes to come. So thank you for that. I encourage you to continue to do that. You can always reach us at heredeemsusatgmail.com.
Another thing that I haven't mentioned over the last few weeks because we've been on a bit of a summer hiatus for those of you who are listening to this in the winter. Forgive me for that reference, but we do need to encourage you again if you're involved in social media at all. We do have a Facebook page. It's called Redeem Through His Blood. We also have an Instagram page. We have many followers there and a lot of great works being put forth there by our cousin, Dave's niece, Cherie Curtis.
We want to give her a shout out and say a special thanks to her for all of her efforts there. So last week we talked about it was our part two on what repentance is not. We had a great discussion around a lot of things there, some real key takeaways that we've been getting from a lot of you and your emails. I want to just remind you to if you haven't already go back and listen to that. Listen to part one and part two. We have sandwiched in between their fun interview.
I don't know if fun is the right adjective. It was fun, but it's a deeply moving interview with a brother, Scott Harmon. For those of you who don't know, this is not just one week each week stands on its own kind of podcast. Although it does, it's important I think for us to reemphasize or reiterate that these really kind of build one concept or one week on the other in many ways. Encourage those of you who are just joining us. First off, we want to say welcome.
We've had just an absolute influx of new listeners recently and want to thank our veteran listeners for inviting you all, our new listeners to be with us and encourage you to do the same to your friends as well. But I wanted to just reemphasize that if you were to go back to even episode one, episode one is Easter. And there we have an intimate walk with Jesus Christ in the holy week in preparation for that great last sacrifice. And we talk about all of the events there.
And then we come back in episodes two, three, four, and so on and begin to build on these concepts. And so, you know, again, although each episode is intended and does indeed stand on its own to get a more complete experience, we encourage you to go back to those earlier episodes and listen to the entire thing. So let me just endorse what you just said, Scott. You know, I don't really even see this as a podcast as much as I see it as a course of study.
And this is based on a course that I designed many, many years ago in Answer to Priesthood Leaders' Inquiry. What can the Institute of Religion do to help our students and our young adults in young adult stakes? What can we do to help them to access the power of Christ's Atonement through faith in Christ and repentance and to help them overcome some of the sins of this generation?
I mean, so I see this as kind of a course. And today we're going to be talking about reasons why people don't repent. And that's, I think there's amazing lessons that can be applied from just this singular podcast. But it is just a small part of the whole course. So to really appreciate the course, I agree with Scott and encourage all of us to kind of remember the foundation upon which we're building this podcast and this course of study.
And it's based upon knowing who you are and knowing who God is and knowing our relationship with Him and knowing the plan of redemption and that He sent His Son and that we're all fallen and we need redemption. That redemption is through, it's not through assimilation. That redemption is not by just living a good life. Lots of people live good lives. But redemption is through Jesus Christ and His blood.
And then we talked about what the Savior did for us, the sacrifice He made for us, and the faith that is required in Him and His atonement. And now we're kind of getting into where the rubber meets the road and how we can repent through faith in Christ and His atonement. So I just really encourage all of our listeners and sometimes even those who have listened every week to maybe sometimes go back and listen to some of the ones again that maybe would be helpful to them.
I know that's happening actually, Dave. I talked to a bishop and a ward here locally just the other day who took actually three of these podcasts and used it as part of their fifth Sunday. And I know that the members of that ward were really grateful for his insights and the ability for him to kind of perpetuate these things that way as well.
Well, our only real objective is to be a blessing, to bless others and to help priest and leaders and individual members of the church, strong and weak in the faith, to develop a closer relationship with Jesus Christ and understand the plan of redemption more fully than we do. And all of us are continually learning and growing together here. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Well, we are, as I mentioned earlier, we're really excited to talk about what we're going to talk about here today because, you know, oftentimes when it comes to repentance, you know, and again, let's just reiterate, it's not repentance that redeems us, it's Jesus Christ that redeems us. Repentance helps us turn away from those things that does not allow the spirit to be completely in our lives, thereby putting on the atonement of Jesus Christ, which we have talked about so much here.
But what repentance does, and I said that, what repentance does is bring us closer to him. But sometimes, and I know I've had this experience in my life, I think we all do. Sometimes there are stumbling blocks, roadblocks, that kind of get in our way to repenting. And there are a couple of major ones that I think that we're able to distill this down to that I think is more of a universal experience.
The things that we'll be talking about today at some level, I believe every human being that's ever walked the face of the earth, or ever will walk the face of the earth, will and has experienced some of the things that we'll be talking about today. So David, let's get rolling in that. Well, so thanks Scott. So when I would teach this lesson, I would always begin with a question, which is, let's, before we talk about really what about what repentance is and the process of repentance.
Let's identify some of the reasons why people don't repent. What are some of the reasons you don't repent and if it makes it easier for you to respond and us to have a discussion, tell me why your best friend doesn't repent. Right. As always. Or tell me why someone in your family doesn't repent. So anyway, that would always be an interesting discussion and lots of participation.
And every semester, I would get a probably a list of about 15 reasons, pretty specific reasons why people wouldn't repent. And I did that for many semesters. And so I kind of made it a took all of those together and oftentimes the same reasons were given semester after semester after semester. But I took an accumulation of all of those and I made a PowerPoint out of it and began to use a PowerPoint.
And after a class had given me all their reasons, I would put this slide up on the screen and I would say, OK, let's let's study all these reasons. What stands out to you? What common threads do you see? What what patterns do you see in these reasons, rationalizations or excuses? Why people don't repent? And as they took a few minutes, you know, we would just sit in silence for a few minutes.
And as they studied that list, they would always come back and the first answers would be and there would there would be several. But the two main common patterns in why people don't repent identified by my students was fear and pride, fear and pride. And I began to then develop after that a lesson to help students to overcome their fear of repenting and their fear of their pride and how to overcome those those reasons why people wouldn't repent.
So anyway, I think this is a really important discussion. And while I was in the middle of teaching that course, Scott, I was ordained a patriarch and I thought I knew something about fear. But this became the singular most important lesson of my life that I have learned learned in all my life. And I just want to briefly share it and and then get into some scriptures about this. So when I was called to be a patriarch, I was told to not give any blessings until I was ready.
And I didn't really know what that meant, but I went and I tried to try to get ready reading scriptures and and increasing trying to increase the effectiveness of my my prayer and worship and try to get the spirit of the Lord. And and I didn't know if I was making progress or not. In fact, I felt like I was maybe beginning to lose a little ground in my spirituality.
And I don't want to sensationalize this by saying I really felt like I was being attacked by Satan just more in my thoughts and feelings. And one day my sweetheart, Chris called me out on it. I was a little short with her or I was just not being very nice. I don't know. I can't remember the details, but she called me out on it and it just broke my heart. And she said, David, why are you so on re you've been so much more on re since you were ordained to be a patriarch.
And that not only broke my heart, but it really got my attention because I knew what she was saying was true. So I really struggled with it, wrestled with it and I became increasingly frustrated. And I just said to her one day, Chris, I've got to get away. I don't know what's wrong with me. And I've got to go. I got to go get some things right. I've got to go. I just need some time alone.
And I didn't know how long I'd be gone or where I was going to go. But I got in the car and started to drive. And I remember a few hours later, ended up in a parking lot. I was praying and weeping. I didn't really know what was wrong with me, but I've taken the scriptures with me because I guess maybe another one of the greatest lessons I've learned is that answers not only answers to our questions, but solutions to our problems are found in the scriptures.
I don't know of any exceptions to that, Scott. And so I was led to this scripture and I read the scripture and I got my attention because the revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith, the David Whitmer and his brothers and the first verse starts out, Behold, I say unto you, David, well, I got my attention. And so I continued to read, You have feared man and have not relied on me for strength as you ought.
Wow. That really struck me. And I knew immediately what my problem was that I was afraid, that I had to allow fear to come into my heart and that fear was blocking me, keeping me from feeling the spirit of the Lord. And this goes on this verse, his passage is in Doctrine and Covenants section 30 verses one through three. I'm just reading parts of it here. And the Lord says, But your mind has been on the things of the earth more than on the things of me.
It also reads, You have not given heat unto my spirit. And then it says in verse three, Wherefore you are left to inquire for yourself. Well, that, that, that just described perfectly. Yeah. My situation and what I was feeling. Let me ask you a question, Dave. You say that you identified that as fear. That's pretty broad. What were you afraid of? So I had so many fears and I also discovered after really pondering this, Scott, that that fear and pride are inextricably linked. Twins.
At least that's that's actually the chapter in Elder Anderson's book is that Elder Anderson wanted to title this chapter in his book, The Twin Bullies. So just real quickly, what book we are referring to, and you'll hear us refer to this quite frequently, it's called The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Elder Neil L. Anderson. Again, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Elder Neil L. Anderson.
Great stuff in here. Dave was very instrumental in the compiling of the information and all of that for this book itself. This is the actually the context that is used in that Institute class or excuse me, not context, but this is actually the curriculum, the book, the guide, the class guide. What would you call it?
Yeah, well, this is this is some of the course material that was used in the course Elder Anderson certainly refined it, improved it and and it's I know it's inspired and prophetic because of of Elder Anderson's authority in the revelation. And I helped more, I guess, with the organization than anything of the book. But it was grateful to be able to meet with him regularly and discuss these these important chapters. But the chapter of that book is entitled the what's it called?
It's called Twin Bullies, wanting to prevent our repentance. And of course, those twin bullies that he refers to is just as Dave is speaking about his fear and pride. So again, Dave, the things that you were fearful, what were those? So I found out my fear and pride was was related and that my fears were based on my pride, right? Such as, well, what if I give a revelation and it's and it hurts the individual? What if I give a revelation, give a patriarchal blessing and they don't like it?
What if I give a patriarchal blessing and it ruins somebody's life? What if I'm not worthy to do this? What if I fail at this fear, fear, fear, fear? There were so many fears based on this. It's the scariest calling that anyone can ever receive. I believe that of all the callings I've received. It's the scariest calling, I think, in the church. Yeah, I bet. But in so often those fears, when we talk about them in hindsight, they seem irrational, right?
I mean, for example, you just said, what if I ruin somebody's life with a blessing? Has anybody's life been ruined with a blessing? I don't know. You know what I mean. I don't know. Maybe. I don't think so. Anyway, these fears we're talking about Scott are irrational. So let me just let me just say up front. So we're not misunderstood. You know, some fears are good and we're not talking about the fear of the Lord here because fear of the Lord means in the scriptures.
If you interpret that, if you if you translate that with the Hebrew and the Greek means to revere or to respect or to reverence the Lord. So we're not talking about that kind of fear. And we're not talking. There are some positive fears. There's some natural human positive fears. The prophet Joseph Smith said the fear of death was a gift given to us by God so that individuals would be less inclined to take their lives.
I mean, I mean, there are some fears that are positive that protect us literally protect us. Absolutely. But I'm describing in our discussion today irrational fears. And I believe that Satan can put fears in our hearts. I know that some are just totally manmade human fears that we that we have because of the world that we live in. I believe that if Satan can put thoughts into my mind that he can also through my thoughts that he can put fear into my heart.
And that's what I was experiencing, Scott. I was having thoughts that I that were extremely negative and doubtful about my abilities and my relationship. And and I was filled with fear. So when I read this passage, I knew what my challenge was and I determined there in that car that day in the middle of some parking lot that I was going to make it a study that I knew that I could through the power of the word and the scriptures that I could get some revelation and some direction.
So I started the study and after studying the topic of fear and being afraid in the scriptures. That was the two topics I studied fear and being afraid. I discovered that 127 times in the standard works, we are commanded to fear not or to be not afraid. Well, that that was impressive to me and it's over and over again in the scriptures in all four standard works of the church. We are commanded to fear not or to be not afraid.
And a few of those that got my attention, one of my favorites, which everyone I think can relate to and know is Matthew chapter 14 verses 22 through 23. We read this experience, which happens in the fourth watch or early in the morning. Jesus is walking towards them as he walks towards them. He speaks to them. This is verse 27.
But straightway Jesus spake unto his disciples who who were experiencing some fear because they saw what they they didn't know who he was or where this was a spirit that they were seeing. And Jesus spake unto them saying, Be of good cheer. It is I be not afraid. There's one of the 127 times were commanded to fear not or be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou bid me come unto thee on the water.
I love Peter is he knew that if Christ commanded him, he can do it. Christ asked him the faith that he had. It's it's incredible. Yeah, verse 29 and he said Jesus said, come. And when Peter was come down out of the out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. Verse 30, but I've got that circle to my scriptures. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid. And beginning to sink, he cried saying, Lord, save me.
And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand and caught him and said unto him, Oh, thou of little faith. Wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Well, I know that there are so many boisterous waves that capture our attention as we're trying to follow Jesus as we're striving to do hard things to sacrifice and to to live and keep the commandments and so many boisterous waves that distract us from all of that.
Scott and and those distractions can really put fears into our into what do people think about me fear of missing out. I'm going to miss out on on a fun time. I'm going to miss out on this or I'm going to write FOMO the famous FOMO fear of missing out fear of missing this fear of losing fear of failing fear of not being popular fear of not being liked. There are so many irrational fears that don't help us or strengthen us in our relationship with Jesus Christ.
And and as a result, those fears a man made or Satan induced based largely on our pride keep us not only from repenting, but they keep us from feeling the spirit of the Lord, which is really important. That it's really important that we feel the spirit of the Lord. That's how we know that these concepts that we're talking about and I hate using the word concepts because there's so much more than that. I just in my own finite ability to communicate that's that's the best way I can say it.
But David, if it's OK with you, I want to just take a couple of seconds and share some experience around this experience that Peter had. I think that many of us in our lives have been Peter. I have, you know, in that walk on the water, for example, if if I'm in a boat that's being tossed about, you know, that can metaphorically be my life.
That can be Scott Durfee's life in a time where there's just so much going on that may it's not good that maybe my only solace, my only rescue is through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. So as I bid to him, let me come unto you as I ask him, let me come unto you and he says, go ahead, but you're going to have to walk on that water. And that water is still going to be wavy and it's still going to be difficult and it still is less dense than your body.
And so even a slight slip of faith, you will penetrate the surface of that water. I think Peter could swim. He was a fisherman. There's absolutely zero reservation in my mind about Peter's ability to swim. He had to be able to swim. He spent his life on the sea more or less, right? But he also knew I've been on the Sea of Galilee and I've been on the Sea of Galilee when there was a storm. And he also knew that that sea could be extremely boisterous and even deadly. He knew that.
He even drives with further emphasis my point, right? He knew that. So he knew that even in that his only savior, and I mean that in every aspect of the word in this context, that his savior was the only person to whom crying out would provide refuge from that storm. And he did. He says he cried out. He cried out saying, Lord, save me. We heard Scott Harmon on a floor of solitary confinement in the Utah State prison. Cry out, Lord, will you save me?
We heard Nate Moller in his car driving away from an experience that would have ended his life at his own hand if his initial plan had gone through say, Lord, save me. They cried out. So when we look at our fears and we have them, I mean, part of my fears throughout my life around repentance and boy, I was good at procrastinating repentance. And when I say good, I don't mean good in a good way. I mean that I was skilled.
I should maybe use that word instead. I was skilled at procrastinating my repentance. Why? Well, I can share some experiences. For example, if I'm the kind of guy that, and I was and still am, unless I'm constantly repenting and turning to the Lord, but if I'm the kind of guy whose pride will get in my way of, I'm really worried about what other people think of me.
If I have been conditioned through whatever means to put the great opinion of other people ahead of my own or ahead of other, and here's the problem with that. I really don't know what that opinion is. I only know what my perception of that opinion is based on my experiences. And so often I need those experiences to, to support a narrative that I have in my own life created be that good or bad, usually bad. And based on your ego and pride. 1000%. There again, fear connected to pride.
Yeah. So if I make a decision, OK, I'm going to start participating again. I'm just going to ease my way back in and I start going back to church. And I, because of my personality, I start making friends real quickly again. And because of my abilities that Heavenly Father's blessed me with, I get called to teach Sunday school and then I get called to teach gospel doctrine. And now the pride has got in the way that I can't really go talk to these guys because what if they find out?
What if the whole ward finds out? What if the whole state? Oh my gosh, what if my family were to find out? You know what? Heavenly Father loves me. I'll just die with this. And when I get over there, me and him will work it out because he loves me. And that, you know, that could work. But there's a problem there. The problem there is this life is the time to prepare to meet God. The problem there is, is men are that they might have joy.
And as long as I'm in that attitude of procrastination, out of pride and fear, and it's really difficult for me to differentiate between the two when it comes to those types of things. And this has been my experience in my life in the past, you know, 20 plus years ago.
But it was nonetheless my experience and I still have to keep it in the forefront of my mind because those ugly things can resurface if I don't participate daily in this repentance process and in this process of coming closer to my Heavenly Father. Well, Scott, and another fear you probably had and many of one of the fears that my students always brought up was the fear, what if I can't change the fear?
What if I fail to to repent and make meaningful change the fear of what if I do it over and over and over again? That fear drove many of my students to say I can only repent when I am worthy because I'm afraid that I will slip and that I'm not ready and that I'll just keep doing it over and over again. That fear kept many of them from repenting. And it kept me from repenting too. I mean, and you just described the life of every drug addict or alcoholic that's ever walked the face of this earth.
I, for example, and for those of I haven't said it for a few weeks and so just a reminder, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I will have 24 if I say it that way. I'm fronting myself and we don't do that in alcohol in my addiction recovery program. So I have to say I have 23 years and nine or in 10 months of sobriety right now on October 26. I will I will have the opportunity to celebrate 24 years of continuous sobriety. But prior to that, David, I had no problem quitting. I could quit.
I could quit five or six times a day sometimes, right? But I couldn't stay stopped. And the reason I couldn't stay stopped is because I wasn't participating and moving in the direction of these things that we're talking about to become. And now listen, people get sober all the time that are not members of our church. But nobody who's a real alcoholic or a real drug addict gets sober without a power that's greater than themselves in their lives.
That's number two in the steps of the 12 steps in any addiction recovery program. Well, that power is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, even if they don't recognize that's who it is. That's who it is. And and so through that and through him, we learn. I learned eventually and learned to make this a daily practice to put that fear and pride behind my relationship with him, thereby swallowing it up and it dissipates and goes away.
Yeah. Well, I think there's too many individuals, all of us who sometimes are afraid of God. Yeah, I mean, we're afraid to approach him. We're afraid to have a relationship with him. We, you know, the fear of the Lord is a positive thing if you translate the word fear into revere, reverence, worship.
But the real irrational fear of God is a result of not knowing God, not understanding who he is, not understanding his love, not understanding his mercy, not understanding his grace, not not not knowing that he knows us perfectly and still loves us. So anyway, though there are so many fears that that again, not only keep us from repenting, but block us from feeling the spirit of the Lord and the love of God in our life.
There was a scripture that I that I found in my search when I was called to be a patriarch and I was going through this process trying to learn more about this using the scriptures. I loved two scriptures that two verses that are in Dr. and Covenants section 67.
This is a revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith and it's kind of a missionary zone conference where all of the missionaries have been kind of called back and they're having a conference and and they're seeking to know the will of the Lord. They're they're seeking revelation. They're seeking to know what what they should be doing. And in verse three, it reads, he endeavored to believe that he should receive the blessing which was offered unto you.
And I believe that blessing includes, among other things, revelation, that they were seeking revelation. They were seeking to know the will of the Lord for them. But behold, the verse continues, verily, I say unto you, there were fears in your eyes. There were fears in your hearts. And verily, this is the reason that you did not receive revelation.
I I that scripture, I know is true that as long as I had fear in my heart, it was impossible for me to really receive the spirit of the Lord and the revelation that I needed. In order to pronounce, receive a revelation for someone else, let alone for myself. And in order to give patriarchal blessings, I knew that I had to overcome this fear in order to receive the spirit of the Lord and receive revelation. We have to we have to learn how to replace fear.
And and I in my search, Scott found it's in two places. It's in 1 John and it's in Moroni chapter eight. And there's a verse that says, perfect love casteth out all fear. I read it first in Mormon chapter eight, verse 16. And and that just really affected me because I knew that that was the antidote. I knew that that was the answer that I had to learn how to replace fear. I don't think any of us can stop fear. Just like it's impossible, I think, to have perfect control over our thoughts.
I don't think we do because I think living in a world of sin that we we see sin and we have sinful thoughts and Satan, we believe can has the power to put negative temptations and thoughts into the world. And I believe the same is true for putting emotions into our hearts. I just don't believe you can live in this world, this fallen mortal world and listen to any news or anything else without feeling negative emotions that can really, really hurt us and affect us in negative ways spiritually.
You know, you talk about that perfect love casteth out all fear. What is that perfect love? Well, that perfect love is our heavenly Father through his son Jesus Christ and communicated to us through the Holy Ghost. And so so important when we talk about fear, this is something that is really prominent, I think, in all people. We see this a great deal, especially in in this is my experience, so especially to me in the rooms of recovery fear.
In fact, there's a part of the big book of Alcoholics and Honours where it says we think fair ought to be clashed with stealing. It seems to be it seems to cause more trouble. And then you go even in that book, you know, in in in kind of in line with what we're talking about here, it talks about that the anecdote to fear is a relationship with our heavenly Father. That's what it is. It suggests that relationship. And when we feel that fear, you mentioned earlier that, you know, we fear God.
A lot of times we fear God. And there's a reason for that. We have been we're in a mortal experience. We have a veil. We don't remember exactly. We have rememberings through the spirit. And much of that is 100% dependent on our our desire and our actions to kind of precipitate that in our lives. But when we think about fearing our heavenly Father, when we're raised up and we're taught that he's our Father in heaven, a lot of people in this.
So what we do just naturally is we take a father figure or a man figure. And we exponentially expand that to meet our heavenly Father. And so if we in our experience with other human beings know that that experience would cause anger in that relationship, then we think that in that relationship with our heavenly Father. Well, if it's anger here, my gosh, it must be anger times a million there.
And that for me, you know, I'm sharing my experience here, but in listening to others share their experiences over the years. It's pretty much in line with theirs too, that we often see that as a punishing a God that would lay down lashes or whatever the case may be. Well, we we we too often Scott transfer. Our relationship with a mortal fallen imperfect father, right, earthly father, yeah, with our heavenly Father.
And I think we too often just try to put human human characteristics on God that are totally inappropriate and inaccurate. So I know that I've done that you've done that everybody's done that I have a dear friend who's a who's a Japanese who's a Japanese convert to the church. You know, and such a good friend. I love Ted Sorrell very much.
But he used to call me and still does occasionally and we talk, but he used to call me and he would say, tell me, tell me again, David, about about heavenly Father's love. And this is this a good man who's been a bishop who's right now on a full time mission. He and his sweetheart, great man. But so he grew up with a father who was a samurai and was very harsh, very strict. And and it's it was just really hard for him to picture a loving, kind, merciful, heavenly father.
I don't know if individuals remember and I can't remember which episode it is. The patriarchal blessing that I gave in the first few years I was a patriarch to a young woman who was 32 years old, had been to church in 16 years and, you know, had had all kinds of challenges and and in life had just made, you know, what she thought were were almost probably unrepentable mistakes. And feeling impressed that I needed to tell her from her heavenly father that number one, he wasn't mad at her.
And number two, that she was one of his favorites. I, Scott, was so filled with the love of God for that young woman. And for everyone else I gave a patriarchal blessing to I could I could just feel. Yeah, it just came through me this love of God that he has for his children. So there are so many irrational fears and mortal fears and misconceptions and false ideas and traditions. But I think it's important we call those out so that we don't get stuck and stay in those.
You know, I remember the first time that that was brought to my awareness. What an epiphany that was, right? And so, you know, I know what it's like to be my dad's favorite. And I know all seven of my siblings feel the same way. I just I look at the way that I've been a dad to my kids sometimes, though. And I think, my goodness, I did not model a father, especially a celestialized father, which I'm not and I'm not pretending to be. But maybe I'm working towards that, hopefully, right?
But I think of what kind of stumbling blocks have I thrown in front of my kids when it comes to their relationship with their heavenly father because of the harshness with which I handled situations in the past. Some of the greatest regrets of our life, for sure. Well, I want to go back to this idea of perfect love casting out all fear, you know, and in Muroni 8, it's actually Mormon who says it.
Mormon's writing a letter. He's written a letter to Muroni and Muroni has included this letter on to the plates. And and Mormon says this is Marona Maroni 8 verse 16. And part of the verse says this is so Mormon writing to his son. Behold, I speak with boldness, having authority from God, and I fear not what man can do. Here here's his whole civilization is being destroyed. He's being wiped out Mormon. This is Mormon and he's witnessing all these wars and death.
And he says, I fear not what man can do. And then this this line for perfect love casteth out all fear. Well, when I read that in my search after being called to be a patriarch, I knew that was the how. How can I replace my fears? How can I overcome my fears? Because I read that, Scott, I thought, OK, so that's the answer. That's the how. But how do I get that love? How do I get that love? That's the real question. And the thought immediately came into my mind.
Muroni 748, I knew that scripture. I thought, you know that scripture. So I it's only one page back in Muroni 748, which is again this amazing discourse on faith, hope and charity. And in verse 48 of Muroni 7, we read, Wherefore my beloved brother, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love. And this love is charity, the pure love of Christ or perfect love. So what's perfect love? If perfect love casts out all fear, what is that?
It is the love of Christ. It is the love of God. It is charity. And I believe and I had come to this conclusion years before this, this experience I had that charity is different than me loving someone. The charity is the pure love of God, pure love of Christ. So if I can obtain through the gift of the Spirit, the Holy Ghost, the gift of charity, because it is a spiritual gift, it allows me to get a glimpse of how God sees me and how he sees someone else.
It's not my feelings towards them. It's feeling God's love. It's seeing how God sees them. That's the gift of charity. And so Scott, how if perfect love casts out all fear, how do we get that love? We pray with all energy of heart that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed as a gift. It has to be bestowed upon all who are true followers of his son Jesus Christ. Okay, so after I read that, I decided I would make, I would do an experiment.
And I began to experiment with how can I pray with all energy of heart to be filled with the love of Christ, perfect love, that my fears would be cast out. The first thing I learned was how unaware I had been all of my life, of all of my fears. That was shocking to me. I became super aware, sensitized by the fears in my life. And it was, it broke my heart that I had allowed too many fears about too many things to manipulate and control my life.
Sometimes it can almost begin to run our lives, that fear. I mean, we talk so often about, you know, a time when we feel shame-based and fear-driven in all things that we do, you know, and it can just really consume and take over. And at some point, it can even trick us into believing that that's not fear, it's just our life. It's just being mortal. It's just being human. Exactly. And it is. I know it is, because I feel it every day. I still feel it every day.
You can't stop fear from being part of our everyday life, but if we're commanded in the scriptures to fear not, or to be not afraid, he's telling us we don't have to accept it. We don't have to be complacent about it. That we've been told how to replace it with perfect love. Perfect love cast out all fear. And we've been told that if we'll pray with all energy of heart, that he will bestow that love upon us.
So as I began to experiment with this, becoming super aware of my fears, I had an experience, a simple little experience, really, going to work one day, going down the freeway, 70, 75 miles an hour. Somebody cut me off, and I just couldn't believe. I couldn't believe that I didn't hit them. I don't know how an accident was prevented there, but we must have been within inches of a serious accident. And I immediately was afraid, which caused an anger to come out of me.
So here's another connection. I know pride is connected to my fears, and I know that fear is connected to my anger. I think most of my expressions of anger, especially as a parent, and throughout my life, when I've been angry, every time I've thought back to that now, and every time I become angry now in the present, I think about it, and it's usually associated with some fear.
It has been for me too. Many years ago, when I was beginning to work the 12 Steps of Recovery through an alcoholic recovery program that's anonymous, I had a sponsor, and I was a few years into recovery. I was actually maybe 10 years, maybe eight years sober, and I'd been working the steps, and I was sponsoring other guys, and I was actively involved in my church, and I was actively involved in my recovery program.
But I had this anger issue. I'm not proud to admit it that even in my sobriety, a few times in the early years, I would actually be in a fistfight for stupid reasons. I was thinking back, which seemed like extremely important reasons at the time. Why? Because of the emotions around it.
Well, I'm talking to my sponsor who has passed on now, not a member of our church, but one of the most spiritual men that I've ever met and had a deep relationship with his Heavenly Father, and had a lot of things that I just really wanted in my life,
and that's why I chose him to be a mentor. As a matter of fact, he was instrumental, maybe one of outside of a couple of my ecclesiastical leaders, my bishop at the time and my stake president at the time, but he was extremely instrumental in my being brought back to the fold through baptism after I had had my membership lifted for a few years. Not only was he supportive of it, but he was like,
Scott, in order for you to maintain your integrity, you absolutely have to do this. It was that important to him. And so this guy had so much worth, his value, his opinion meant so much to me. His name was Al. We called him Big Al. He wrote a Harley. I wrote a Harley. He was a great salesman. I've been a pretty good salesman throughout my life. He just had a lot of things that were just things that I wanted to pattern my life after.
I was talking to him one day. We used to meet at a coffee shop because that's where he liked to meet. We met at this coffee shop and he said, and he says, Scott, what's going on? Because I called him. I said, Al, I need to talk to you. I really need to talk to you. I've got a thing in my life that's hanging me up and it's preventing me from moving on. And he said, what is it? And I said, it's anger. I says, I get angry so fast for whatever reason.
At the time I hadn't analyzed why I had tried. I tried to figure out why I was angry and I always came down to everybody's against me. That's why I'm so angry. Right? And I had a chip on my shoulder, which sometimes still surfaces, unfortunately. And the insecurities. 100%. And pride. Mostly insecurities, which were based on my pride. The insecurities were because. And they lead to fear. And then the fear manifests itself through anger.
And that's what he told me. So we're sitting there and we're talking about a few things and he's just gently listening and quietly listening and making a few comments here and there. And then finally, when we were done, I said, so what do you think? And he says, you're not angry. He says, you're not really angry. He says, unfortunately, though, you're very fearful. And he says, your life is being run by your fear.
Now, this was a guy that had 40 or so years in sobriety at the time. He had worked a solid program. He had seen and been in places that would curdle your blood in the name of helping others. And he was helping me that day. He helped me realize that that's exactly what it was. And David, that, for me, was liberating. My life changed that day.
Well, I wish somebody would have taught me that lesson before I was ordained a patriarch in my fifties, because this is, I think, the most important lesson of my life. And I believe it can be for our listeners. I agree. If they understand the connection between insecurities and pride and fear and anger and how these emotions can keep us from feeling the spirit of the Lord and keep us from repenting and keep us from forgiving.
Right? It's, it keeps us from, from even being able to forgive ourselves and forgive others. So it's such an important thing. And how can we get this perfect love to cast out all fear by praying with all energy of heart and allowing the spirit of the Lord to bestow that gift on us? And as I'm on the freeway, back to the near accident, when I'm on the freeway and this kid cuts me off, I'm so angry. I'm so mad.
And just immediately, which was based on my fear that I got right behind him and I began to follow him. I mean, if he would have touched his brakes, I was toast, but I just got right on his rear end, on his back bumper, and I was following him. And he went to get off the exit and I got off right behind him. And I was going to give him peace of my mind. And just as we were getting off the exit, I caught myself and I thought, what are you doing? Well, how come you're angry? What are you afraid of?
You know, and I began to kind of walk this back and immediately I prayed with all energy of heart. This doesn't need to take long. And I find myself doing this multiple times a day, Scott. I prayed with all energy of heart to be filled with the love of Christ, to see him as God sees him.
And this was just one time when I just had this sweet little miracle and I had, as I was praying with all energy of heart for love for this young man, I had a little vision and I could see his mother and I could see that his mother was in trouble. And I understood that this young man was trying to get home to help his mother. My heart completely changed and was filled with compassion and love and all the fear and anger was gone.
And I actually pulled up to the side of him and I looked over at him hoping he would look at me and I was going to roll down my window and ask him to roll down his and I wanted to say, how can I help? Are you okay? How can I help you? I'm sure he intentionally didn't look over at me and I didn't want to honk and scare him. And so nothing happened. But just that simple little experience taught me an important lesson early on in my experiment.
And I've been experimenting with it since then. And I never cease to get over what a miracle it is, Scott. What an amazing gift it is that if we will pray with all energy of heart, that's not a casual prayer. It doesn't have to be a long prayer. But when we pray with all energy of heart, which is the center of our emotions, our heart, to be filled with the love of Christ, His love, perfect love,
God will bless us with that gift from the Spirit. And when we receive His love, we cannot be filled with fear. And when we receive His love and when fear and with it pride dissipates, then we are naturally set up to begin the repentance process. And it is a natural process at that point. It doesn't feel forced. It doesn't feel promoted. It feels invited. It feels embraced. And it feels accepted.
And I don't know a better gift than that to feel embraced and accepted by my Heavenly Father even in my imperfections. And I can feel that. The tool and the vehicle that I can get to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is repentance. And if I can eliminate that fear and again with it pride and some of the other emotions, but most of my other emotions are based on those two basic emotions, fear and pride.
So that's the whole point, right? Is I know that that Satan can manipulate us through our emotions. And if he can fill our hearts with pride and fear and anger based upon all of our mortal insecurities, if he can get us to fill those emotions and we could include the emotion of lust.
That if he can get us to fill lust and any of those negative inappropriate emotions, then he can manipulate us and ultimately keep us from repenting and to have a sweet relationship with our Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ. And that's what it all comes down to.
So our emotions, which are part of our everyday life, can really keep us, block us from having that relationship with Christ and repenting of our sins and enjoying the full blessings of the Spirit of the Lord and the redemption of Christ in our life.
And I hope, if listeners wouldn't mind me giving an invitation, that they would consider the fears in their own lives, that they would seek to become more aware of their pride and their fears and insecurities and even their anger and kind of think about that process of how anger is the result of our fears and invite you to become just more sensitive and aware of your emotions. That's the first invitation. And the second invitation is, and then to do something about it.
Not just to accept it, but to pray with all energy of heart to be filled with the love of Christ, to receive the gift of charity from the Spirit of the Lord, and I promise you that if you will experiment with that, if you'll become more aware and if you'll experiment with praying with all energy of heart to be filled with his love, I promise you that you can be able to overcome, not permanently, not forever. I feel fear every day. This is a daily process.
This part of what I think President Nelson was saying to us when he tells us to repent daily is that we all feel these things every day. And I just invite you to experiment with these things and become more aware and more proactive in overcoming the fear and the pride that keeps us from repenting and enjoying that relationship. And a lot of times we can look at that and take that, I'm going to call it a personal inventory.
We can take that personal inventory by identifying the parts of our lives where we feel are disconnected from the Spirit. And then we can take a top-down approach at that point too. For example, my experience with my anger, I didn't identify it as fear, but once I took that, I'm going to see where the fears are. And once I had that pointed out to me, then I can distill that down to that basic emotion. That's where the invitation that I feel comes from my Heavenly Father to come unto me.
And I feel like I'm really coming unto him when those things happen. It will not only help us individual in our relationship with Jesus Christ, Scott. This discussion and understanding of these things will help us in our relationship with others, especially those who we love. And when we have maybe a spouse, significant other, or sons or daughters who become angry, we should pause for just a moment and just ask ourselves, what are they afraid of? What are their fears right now?
What are their fears? Where is this coming from?
And as you begin to learn this concept and the power, the negative power that fear and pride can have in our lives and how it manifests itself through anger or through procrastination or from whatever other negative actions that come out of those emotions are, as you are more aware of them, it can actually increase your patience and increase your ability to forgive and to love others who are struggling with some of the same fears and pride that we all struggle with.
And when I'm able to do that, that's when I feel deeper joy in my heart, because I have him with me. Yeah, amen. That's what it comes down to. Wow. Here we are at the end of yet another podcast. Please take advantage and heed Dave's invitation to find those opportunities to identify how the various things that are keeping us from our Heavenly Father, how they distill down to fear and pride.
And I believe because it's been my experience and I've witnessed this experience in the lives of countless others, that as we do so, we'll be drawn more nigh unto him. And as we do that, we'll feel his love and as we do that, we'll feel his joy and happiness and have charity, which is his love for others towards all men. Thank you for being with us once again. We appreciate this very much. May God bless you.
May he be with you always and may you always remember that you have been redeemed through his blood. Thanks for being with us.