World on Fire? (with Elizabeth Yeampierre and Allie Kelly)

Rachel Vindman: Hi everyone. Thanks for listening. I'm Rachel Rachel Vindman.

Jasmine Clark: I'm Jasmine Clark.

Amanda Weinstein: I'm Amanda Weinstein.

Rachel: And you're listening to the Suburban Women Problem. Thanks for joining us today! I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving holiday. We're excited to be back together having these conversations that might be hard, but are so important.

A little later, we're going to be talking climate change with Allie Kelly who runs a climate nonprofit in Georgia. And then later on, I'll get the chance to talk to activist Elizabeth Yeampierre about the intersections between climate justice and racial justice. But first, how was everyone's Thanksgiving?

Amanda: So nice. We actually ordered our Thanksgiving.

Rachel: Awesome.

Amanda: So many of our friends actually did this year, which we were surprised. We like didn't want to tell anyone. We're like, “we're not cooking. We're just going to order it from a restaurant.” But it was so relaxing. We didn't cook. We just like, heated it up basically. And it was really relaxing and super nice at my mom's house. And we had in-laws in town. So lots of grandparents, which is always super fun.

Jasmine: Yeah. I spent the Thanksgiving day with my dad and his wife and her family and we did traditional Thanksgiving. So we did the Turkey, the ham, the collard greens, Mac and cheese,  dressing. And the thing is like, these are all foods that I really love, but I honestly never ever cook them until this time of year. So it was like really looking forward.

Amanda: Even Mac and cheese? Oh, I did actually make mac and cheese. That's the one add on, I did make.

Jasmine: I will make mac and cheese occasionally throughout the year, but like dressing and like potato salad and, you know, just like all the cakes and the pies and sweet potatoes and things like that. Those are things that I like normally wait until this time, it's like a treat. So is this like early Christmas for me except for food?

Amanda: Food Christmas, I like that.

Rachel: We traveled to Oklahoma to see my grandma and it was a pretty chill time, but actually we had to really isolate because we had a COVID scare with our daughter. But it worked out well and it was nice. 

I have to say everyone was pretty like-minded though, I know that was an issue for a lot of people over the holidays. I saw some frustration from people in Twitter and even talk to some friends. What about you guys? Did you have any tough conversations? I'm glad I didn't because I don't think I have the capacity for it.

Jasmine: I think for my family you know, right before Thanksgiving, the verdict for the Ahmaud Arbery case came through and of course all three of the defendants were found guilty of a felony murder. And for a moment, it actually felt like things were right with the world, even if it was just for a moment. But of course, since I'm in politics and you know, I'm the state rep and my family has like, seen me on the news and stuff. They're like, “whoa, Jasmine, what do you think about everything that's going on?” And so, you know, we, we had a good talk about just like justice.

Justice was almost not served in this case. I mean, it was almost not even started. And it really took public outcry and the family just not giving up at all in order for this to even get this far. And it says a whole lot that we have to go through those types of lengths because, you know, from the day he was killed to someone actually give enough of a darn to do anything about it, it was months in between that.

Amanda: I was kind of surprised. I mean, not surprised, but I was dismayed how surprised we were, like what a sigh of relief it was because that is how much little faith we had in the justice system to actually convict –– which that's disconcerting. But I was also glad that people's voices mattered, right. That verdict would not have come to place. Just like you said, if people's voices weren't lifted and weren't heard, which means that our voices really matter when it comes to our justice system and what comes to our political system.

Jasmine: Exactly. And so also because I am the resident microbiologist the Omicron variant also came up.

Amanda: Oh, no…

Rachel: You had all the fun conversations.

Jasmine: I know. I know. But you know, the thing about it is I know just about as much as everyone else because you know, whenever well, but whenever anything new comes about, like whenever we get a new variant getting new variants is not something that is surprising. The longer this virus lingers, the more likely it's going to mutate and change into something. And every now and then it changes into something stronger than what it was before. So this was always a possibility. 
And so, you know, it brings up the point about vaccine availability globally. But this reminds me, like Alyssa Milano mentioned, like, we don't pay enough attention to what is going on in other countries. And even from a purely self-centered American viewpoint, we need to, because clearly it will affect us. We still, somehow don't get that we need to care about these other countries and whether they have access to vaccines, because it will come back to bite us. If we don't.

Jasmine: Exactly. We do not live in a silo. We do not live in a tower that is surrounded by moats and a big wall where nothing can get in.

We live in a global society, we move and we travel back and forth. And so, you know, these are the, these things are important. And Alyssa Milano is right. Like we are you know, I understand people saying, “oh, America First”— I actually don't really understand it that much, haha, you know, but at the same time, it's like, I wonder how many of those people have ever traveled anywhere?

Like, do you, I, I really wonder if people understand that a lot of what we do, a lot of what we have a lot of what we partake in a lot of the culture, traditions and literal products that we use are from a global economy. And so we have to be respectful and be good stewards of the entire globe, which is why I love that climate change was a part of Build Back Better.

Rachel: We’re leaders. I mean, I know people don't like that, but one of the things that I really learned when we lived in Moscow, because people would pull Alex aside and have conversations and they would say like “the United States has to lead on this.” Because that's who we are. I mean, when the United States takes a step back, no one else is going forward to take a step. And that creates a vacuum. And I think we're seeing what's happening in those vacuums. And a lot of it is authoritarian. 

So whether it's climate change, I mean, I personally think the United States should definitely take the lead on climate change because we can absorb the cost more. 

Amanda: But what we don't talk about is we are paying more right now. We are paying more by not addressing it. So when, whether you're talking about flooding, you're talking about hurricanes or tornadoes or fires, right. So when we think about, you know, the environment, one reason why women care more about the environment is because we better see the link between the environment and the wellbeing of our families and our health care.

And so I see this, especially with my family, because my daughter has childhood asthma, which I never had asthma. My husband never had asthma. We lived in places with better air quality than where we currently live in Northeast Ohio, which we never really thought moving here would be like, “hey our kid might have asthma because of it.”

But I'm convinced this is why she has asthma because of the air quality in this region. Right? So it means something different to women. When you have to, for example, stay up, watching your toddler breathe because her breathing is so labored. You think it might just suddenly stop, right? So when you see that connection, when you feel those climate change things in the bill, it feels a little different for the women that have kids with childhood asthma or something else affecting them.

And I am absolutely paying right now. I have paid with ER visits. I have paid with doctor visits. I have paid with inhalers. We are all paying right now. So addressing this, we talked about, you know, the cost of this, what would it cost for electric vehicle charging stations, for example?

But the truth is that cost is less than what we're currently paying.

Jasmine: Exactly. We talk about America being a leader. We have an opportunity to continue to be a leader, and we need to tap into this amazing talent of young people.

Rachel: Absolutely.

Jasmine: And when I, I can tell you the youth, this is what they talk about, and if you don't have something about climate change…

Amanda: I’m going to tell you, even Republican youth.

Jasmine: Exactly, because they are seeing the world that we're in, we're handing off to them. And so they are like, “oh no, no, I actually want to see something done. I don't care if it's a Democrat or Republican that does it. I just want to be able to live. I want to be able to live in this environment.” And so when I talk to students all the time, again, on both sides of the aisle, this is something that they care enough about, that they want to hear how politicians, how the government, is really going to address this.

Rachel: They can’t kick the can down the road anymore, and they know that.

Jasmine: We cannot, and they are either voters, new voters, or they're about to be voters. You know, I talked to students about what types of solutions they see. I also am really excited about our next interview because I also had the opportunity to work with Allie Kelly, who is the executive director of The Ray, which is a nonprofit organization dedicated to finding sustainable alternatives to our highway systems. And when I tell you that she’s an amazing, phenomenal, very smart woman. And she knows her climate change stuff. And so I'm really excited to bring her to the podcast. So Allie, welcome to the podcast.

Allie Kelly: Thank you so much, Jasmine, I'm excited to be with you today.

Jasmine: So Allie, tell us about The Ray.

Allie: Well, The Ray is a nonprofit organization. We're headquartered in Atlanta and in LaGrange, Georgia, and we work with state DOTS and other transportation agencies to accelerate the building and the adoption of transportation technology that will make our highways and interstates safer, cleaner, and more productive.

Amanda: Wow. So when we think about green energy, we might think about a field full of wind turbines or solar panels on someone's roof, but you're talking about building solar highways, right? What does that mean?

Allie: Well, there are a lot of opportunities in transportation infrastructure for. A dual purpose or multitasking to occur. We like to think of the roadsides. It's really like a layer cake opportunity. So it's just layers of opportunity for world changing infrastructure. And we just haven't taken the opportunity yet to realize that productivity in the roads.

Amanda: Oh, I love hearing that. I think about like, oh, it's like little unused space, like almost like unused space in your house or something that you're like, “oh, I found a little way for this little nook that we're not using.” And you’re using it for it to be more environmentally friendly. That's so cool. That's awesome.

Jasmine: So what's something that you wish more people understood about sustainability? 

Allie: Well, I wish that more people understood how much transportation is contributing to climate change. Right now we're generating about 260 million scrap tires every year in this country. And the thing about tires is that they don't break down, right. It takes 80 to 100 years for a tire to decompose and to degrade in a landfill or in a dump.

Amanda: What's your favorite victory from the work you've been doing? What's a project you can point to and say, “this is why I'm doing this work.”

Allie: Well, I'm going to go specifically to Georgia for one minute. And I'm going to talk about the work that the legislature has done recently to make sure that our municipal utilities are able to engage in renewable energy generation for customers. People like Jasmine, who served in the state legislature, when we advocate and when Jasmine advocates for renewable energy and sustainability, she's also advocating for positive economic outcomes.

Amanda: I love hearing that because a lot of people, when they hear sustainability and when they hear environmental initiatives, they automatically think this is hurting our economy. This is hurting jobs. And it's just not true.

Jasmine: Yeah. I don't know if you know Allie, but Amanda's an economist. So that's like music to her ears that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Right? Like we don't have to choose one or the other and sustainability and climate change solutions can also be economy boosters as well. And so I love that this is something that our legislatures can do that really, you know, affects change both on the climate side as well on the economic side.

Allie: So we at The Ray, we're inspired by the legacy of Ray Anderson and he basically proved the “green reasons” for going green, right. The profit reasons. And he used to say in his Southern mannerisms, right, “that we could do well by doing good.”

Amanda: Yes! Oh, I'm going to steal that by the way. You can do well by doing good.

Jasmine: And so on that note, climate change is one of those things that we know is important, but we're also so busy with our daily lives, that it's really hard to know how to help. And so what are some things that busy moms can do to support work like?

Allie: Well, I mean, they're, first of all, you can get involved with The Ray. We're a public charity. Our website is theray.org. We're also very active on social media, but I'm going to give you a really specific example around tires. 

So what I told you was pretty depressing, right? Which is that 260 million tires thrown away in 2021 will still be there in 2121. That's pretty depressing for moms and their children's children are going to have to deal with our tire waste. Right. But what I have to tell you is that there are market opportunities for trash tires to become commodities.

Amanda: All I'm thinking is why are you not in Ohio?

Jasmine: You can not have her, Amanda. You can not have her.

Amanda: Oh, I’m going to steal her!

Allie: The other thing that moms can do is we really need to have EV charging infrastructure at rest areas. When I travel with my twin eight year old boys, we usually stop at rest areas because there is room for them to run around, not disturb anybody, not get into traffic.

However, right now US law doesn't allow state DOTs to work with the private sector to install charging stations at rest areas. You can basically get a lottery ticket, some Funyuns and a Coca-Cola, but right now we can't charge a fee to get an EV charge for our car. Which means that, you know, when I stop at a rest area to walk the dog, I can't get a charge for my electric vehicle. And that's only going to hold us back as more people opt into electric vehicles. So we need to solve for that policy issue right now.

Amanda: That seems like that's on you, Jasmine.

Jasmine: I mean, that's a good call to action though. I love that because that's a call to action that says… and it's simple. It's really just saying, “reach out to your representatives, reach out to your senators, reach out to your Congress people. So they know that this is something that's on people's minds.” And so I, I love that. And I just want to say, thank you so much, Allie, for joining us today on the Suburban Women Problem, this has been an amazing like nerd out session for me.

Amanda: Same!

Jasmine: But just in general, like I just really, I appreciate how you make it so plain, how all of us can play a part in this and what you're doing here in Georgia and hopefully what we can see across the country. So thank you.

Allie: It's been so much fun and I want to thank you, Jasmine, for your public service. And I just want to say just to, to close out quickly… I know there's a lot that we're having to ingest and pivot to a lot of information from day to day, but transportation is an area where women can and should have a voice. When you're going to grandma's for Christmas, think about all that land and envision that these are… You know, it's three things that if we change what we do nationally, we'll make a huge impact on transportation from a sustainability and from an economic perspective.

Amanda: I love that. I love me some Funyuns, but I want to see those EV charging stations even more.

Allie: And you can have it both ways. You can eat your Funyuns while you're charging at the rest area and walking the dog.

Jasmine: Oh, I love it!

Amanda: Thank you Allie for being on the show.

Allie: Thank you so much.

Amanda: Now we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll have Rachel's interview with climate justice leader Elizabeth Yeampierre. I am so excited to hear it, Rachel.

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Rachel: Our guest today is an internationally recognized climate justice leader. She's the co-chair of the Climate Justice Alliance and the executive director of UPROSE, an organization dedicated to sustainability and community engagement. Elizabeth Yeampierre, welcome to the Suburban Women Problem.

Elizabeth Yeampierre: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you today.

Rachel: Well, we are so delighted to have you. There are so many issues out there that need our energy and attention. Why did you decide to focus on climate change?

Elizabeth: When I came to UPROSE in 1996, the community was really concerned about the expansion of the Gowanus Expressway, the fact that the community was in a lead belt, they were really talking about the right to breathe.

And I realized that I can't address other kinds of issues without addressing the most fundamental issue, which is the right to breathe. So I go into this work by going into environmental justice, right. And engaging and being sort of responsive to what the community is telling me. And I thought, “how can we do community-based planning on an industrial waterfront without incorporating a climate lens.”

That was pretty much the first time for me, where I'm thinking about what are all the chemicals that exist on the industrial waterfront? How will they be dispersed as a result of extreme weather events? Will our communities and the businesses that are along the waterfront be impacted? And how do we incorporate that in community-based planning?

And so I think it's around 2003, just, it was just sort of a no brainer. This is a community that has been saturated with environmental. And this is a community that's going to be hard hit by climate change. And so it, it really sort of started that way. I never took an environmental policy class. I didn't study this. I didn't come to this work as an environmentalist. I came to this work as someone up firmly grounded in social justice and racial justice. Yeah. That's how I got into climate.

Rachel: You are Afro-indigenous, and you often say that climate change is racial justice. I have a recent quote of yours here: “We don't want to have a situation of climate apartheid here in the United States. Folks need to feel about climate change the same way the people before us felt about the civil rights movement.” Could you tell us more about how you see the intersections between racial justice and climate change? And in addition to that, do you find that this is something that resonates with people? Do people realize that the two are very closely linked?

Elizabeth: I think that there is an emerging understanding about the link between the two. I think that anybody that knows US history and knows the history of colonialism, the history of extraction of our land, the history of enslavement, know that really climate change begins with extraction. So I think, I think people are making the connection. 

They also know that throughout the global south and here the United States, that it is frontline communities people of African and indigenous ancestry. And that's a lot of people, that's everyone, who's, African-American including people from the Caribbean and different parts of the global south. That that's where you're going to find all of the toxic infrastructure where you're going to find all the pollution. Those are the communities that have a long history of health disparities, the ones that were most impacted by COVID. So that we are the people who are at least responsible for creating climate change and the ones that are going to be most impacted.

People like to say, “we all breathe the same air, we're all in the same situation.” And that's absolutely not true. Or you, you could go to the south Bronx, you could go to anywhere the Gulf South, you could go to Detroit, parts of Brooklyn, and you're going to find that it is the poor communities, people of color, that are the ones that are literally engulfed with environmental burdens. And so you take that and you add climate change to that, and you know that it's going to impact our communities more than any other. And so it's our responsibility to treat it like the human rights issue of our day.

And often people talk about, “well, if we were able to implement and operationalize all of this infrastructure, we would be fine.” And that would not address the fact that we have a legacy of relationships with each other that have been toxic for 500 years. It means that we need to engage in building just relationships that there has to be a commitment to self-transformation that there needs to be a recognition that there's a legacy of environmental racism of 500 years.

And that if we're thinking forward, we're not just thinking about what will climate look like, you know, a hundred years from now, 50 years from now, 30 years from now, what will our relationships look like? And if the decisions are made by the most privileged, right, what you will have is climate apartheid.

You'll find that our people will be passive and the decision makers will still look the same. But the people most impacted won't be leading or integrated into a leaderful, intergenerational, power dynamic that is necessary.

Rachel: Right. So UPROSE was founded way back in 1966.

Elizabeth: I'm not the founder!

Rachel: Haha, well what we know about the climate and really the whole world has changed so much since 1966. So how has your organization evolved and how do you make sure that the establishment is paying attention to your work? As a grassroots organization ourselves, you know, I think that's something that we're all fighting for is to have, you know, the establishment look at us and recognize us. And that we have ideas too.

Elizabeth: You know that’s a good question because institutions like us have to evolve and have to change. You know the needs change. Literally the climate changes, the language changes the framing on how we build with each other changes. You know, that 10, 15 years from that ago, we would have never understood gender fluid. We would have never said “they.” That is part of our lexicon now because we have evolved and we are committed to justice. And so when people say “this is how I want to be identified,” in the interest of justice, we're going to recognize and honor that. So that has to be part of who we are. 

Our organization was originally a social service organization. But when I came to, to, to run it I did an assessment to see who was doing what and so I went on sort of a listening tour throughout the neighborhood. And people consistently said the same things. They were concerned about health. They were concerned about asthma, upper respiratory disease. They were concerned about living right under the Gowanus expressway. And so that said, “okay, no one in the neighborhood is doing environmental justice.” Maybe we should be doing that.

The other thing that was important to us and was that young people were coming in and asking, “how can I get involved?” So the organization became intergenerational. There are young people on our board and on our staff, young people who've grown up throughout the organization and we developed a culture of practice that was, “this is going to be a frontline women led organization. That is intergenerational” because leadership has to be a continuum and young people don't have to wait to exercise leadership, they can start doing it right now.

So it grew based on the intention of us feeling like we staff the community. We don't determine what the priorities are. The community determines that. And because the community is working two or three jobs, they've got two or three children. And the last thing they need, this is not park slope, right? This is sunset park. So the nannies that serve park slope, that make it possible for people to go to meetings. They live in our neighborhood. So how do we make it easy for them to be involved in a meaningful way?

Rachel: I love that. To breathe and change and grow. You know, I have to ask this question because you brought up the nannies to live in sunset park—I mean, live in sunset park and work in park slope. If they were going to talk to their employer or just anyone, I mean, if you have to go and talk to someone, how do you explain this? Because I don't think it's that people don't care it's that people haven't thought about it. And when we have to raise awareness and a real way.

Elizabeth: You know, when you think about. They haven't thought about it because they have to think about so many different kinds of things.

So if you're talking to a working class person, someone like my mom and my dad passed away two months ago. And and I, I feel like I'm channeling her every day because I feel like as an activist, as an organizer, for me, it was important for my mom to understand why I was doing, I needed to understand how my mom processed information, because I've had the benefit of a formal education. And my mom didn’t— my mom did domestic work. And so I just really wanted to see how she would process what were her questions? 

So if you are talking to a woman who is, who takes care of other people's children, this is a woman who's concerned about her hours. She's concerned about being available for her child. She's concerned about immigration. She may be concerned about language. She may be concerned about whether or not she can put food on the table and for her to have to navigate her way through all of those challenges. And then think about climate change, it's pretty overwhelming. And it also feels big and complex and unwieldy.

But if you talk to her about the fact that you want your child to be able to breathe clean air, drink, clean water. You want your child to be able to have a future that won't happen if there's climate disruption. Climate change is going to disrupt your employment, your child's education. And so you need to be able to connect it to where people are, how they're trying to thrive and survive and make it very personal.

And I can tell you that they get it immediately because they care deeply about the children. They care deeply about the future. They sacrifice much for that and they get it immediately. I see the connection. So people get it. I think you can't come to them with talking to them about, oh, “how are we going to put down infrastructure?” To build renewable energy, you kind of have to start where people live and the connection between their life and what we are talking about, which is, you know, climate justice.

Rachel: Well, on that note, you know, all the co-host, we're all moms. We, we, we often talk about the world that we're leaving our children and so many different ways, but what are some age appropriate ways that we can talk to our children about climate change. Do you have any suggestions for that? I know that's a struggle that I personally have a lot.

Elizabeth: So the way that I did it with my son is I needed for my son to understand that we are not only stewards of the earth and that everything that we have is a blessing and to learn about relationships and how to treat relationships with love and justice.

But I also used films that were out there. Like I remember FernGully. FernGully was a film about extracts. And then we deconstructed FernGully, and there were movies like Chicken Run, you know, Hey Arnold, which was about organizing. And so I would use whatever was out there that was popular, that was mainstream to engage in a conversation about why, why does Arnold organize? Why do the chickens want freedom? 

And so I try based on whatever age he was to use whatever tools were out there to deconstruct it and to have conversations. Also to be honest “mom, are you afraid?” “Yeah, I'm afraid, but I am doing everything to make it a place that you will be able to inherit and we can do this together.”

And children are really super smart. And they really love engaging and volunteering and doing it with them so that we can be intergenerational and leaderful and really listening to them. Not talking down to them, not patronizing them, not saying “what are the young people feel?” Young people have to be an integral part of decision-making and sometimes… And wisdom doesn't just lie with people who are older. We're not freaking Yoda. Okay. We're not Yoda. 

There are times here at UPROSE when the youngest person on staff who is 20 will say something and I'll come in thinking I have all the answers. I thought about it. I meditated on it. And then she'll say, “what about this?” And I'll be like, “you know what, that's exactly what we’re going to do because that's a smarter idea.”

Rachel: That's good leadership. I have to just point out that that is good leadership. Not everyone can do that.

Elizabeth: But if we're doing this not for self, right, we have to approach this work with tremendous humility. And so collectively, collectively we're able to be leaderful and do work that's important, but with our children, it's a scary world.

Every time they turn on the TV or watch something it's scary. It feels post-apocalyptic. And so we need to be able to lead with solutions and let them know. Yes, it is scary. But look at all the things that people are doing all over the country to make sure that we are out of harms way and you can be part of those solutions too. So I think honest conversations and using some popular tools, I think, depending on the age really, I think really helps. I hope that helps. I just know that that's what I did with my son. And I and I get up thinking about him every day. I tell people when people say, “well, you work 24/7.” I said, “I worked like it's climate change.”

It's there's no, there's no vacation from this.

Rachel: Certainly. I will say one movie that we really like is Wall-E beause it really goes to…

Elizabeth: I love Wall-E!

Rachel: Yeah. And it really goes to consumption, which is something that's really hard, especially this time of year as we're getting into. So I think it's, you know, something really important to talk about. So now we have, you know, covered a lot of heavy stuff and we're into the moment of our interview where I'm going to ask you some lighter, fun, more rapid fire questions. Are you ready for it?

Elizabeth: Sure. Sure.

Rachel: Who's one inspiring indigenous woman that we should all follow on social media right now.

Elizabeth: So Beneshi Albert, who is the co-ed of the Climate Justice Alliance is indigenous. And she just came back from COP26 and reported about that this morning. And she is pretty much new to Twitter. But I promise you that she is worth following. I think you will be... I think you will be inspired by her.

Rachel: Okay. What is your favorite place to go on a date night with your husband?

Elizabeth: Last week, we went to Joe's Pub to see Toshi Reagan and I love it because it's affordable. It's a really small venue where you see amazing artists and for some reasons, It seems to be the place where all the activists go on date night. And I should probably be avoiding it, but it's like, that's my tribe. So I would say Joe's Pub.

Rachel: So what is your favorite family tradition?

Elizabeth: So, you know, I'm Puerto Rican. I am Puerto Rican of African indigenous ancestry. That's real in my, in terms of who I am. And no one does Christmas. Like we do it just doesn't end. It ends, I think like at the ends of January. It's music. It's dancing. It's all the things. And I love that we have these things called Asalto Navideño, where we will show up to your house with music and food. And it's a, it's called a “Christmas assault.” And that's part of the tradition, which I think is really beautiful.

Rachel: I'm gonna give you my address after this. What song do you listen to when you need to get fired up?

Elizabeth: I feel like I listened to anything by Imagine Dragons.

Rachel: I love them, me too!

Elizabeth: I love them. They're my new thing. And I swear that it just gets me out of bed. It gets me moving and I love them. I love everything about them.

Rachel: Me too. So do you have any, no-guilt guilty pleasures?

Elizabeth: My guilty pleasure, I think is K drama. I'm completely addicted to K drama. And yeah, I think I'm driving my husband a little crazy, but I just. I just feel like it's escapism for me. I just love it.

Rachel: Everyone needs some escapism. So New York is full of murals and street art. And what is your favorite mural?

Elizabeth: There are murals in UPROSE that are really amazing, but I think the one that I really love and sort of pause every single time is on fourth avenue in park slope. And it's a Black Lives Matter mural along… I think an area that they're about to build up. And I just know that every time I come through it, I stop and I pause and I think about how important it is to center racial justice and equity in our lives and in all our decision-making. And that mural sort of reminds everybody who's coming through. This is what we need to be about. So I love that.

Rachel: Well, that is the end of our rapid fire questions. Thank you. Where can people find out more about you and your work online?

Elizabeth: I'm on Twitter at @yeampierre, Instagram is @Eyeampierre. I'm not great on Instagram, I'm not gonna lie my own personal Instagram account needs work, but the UPROSE one is amazing. So, you know, @UPROSEBrooklyn on Instagram and @UPROSE on Twitter. And just me personally, just @yeampierre, on Twitter. Yeah.

Rachel: Okay. Again, thank you so much for joining us today. It's inspiring. Truly.

Elizabeth: Thank you so much, Rachel. I really appreciate it.

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Amanda: Welcome back everyone. Rachel, I loved your interview with Elizabeth. It was so interesting to listen to everything she had to say.

Rachel: Yeah. You know, I was really touched and inspired by the work that she does. And I think it goes back to our conversation earlier that people in developing countries, people in poor neighborhoods, pay an outsized price for these climate issues that we've created.

Jasmine: Exactly.

Rachel: And there are solutions, but they cost money and they cost time and commitment as well. We need to invest that back into our world.

Amanda: So we, we talked about the cost is if we don't want to put this cost on our children, cause it's going to cost higher taxes that they'll have to pay back. But we right now through the decisions that we are making are putting a ton of costs. I think what we really need is willpower.

Jasmine: Yes!

Amanda: We need the willpower to do it. We need people's voices. We talked about how people's voices changed the outcome of the case, where Ahmaud Arbery. We need people's voices right now for the willpower to do this. 

And we also need to stop gaslighting people. And this willpower, I think about as a lot of corporations. And I think about right when we are so concerned about plastics, for example, that are in the ocean and everything that we eat in our fish that are now have plastics in it. Right. And the whole, like, you know, “make the world beautiful campaign” that was started from Pepsi and Coke. You're like, oh, “why aren't Pepsi and Coke so nice.” And then you realize what the goal of that campaign was to do is to put it on us as consumers and take it off of them. And the real goal was so that we wouldn't tax plastics.

Rachel: Well, the Supreme Court— corporations are the same as individuals and people. So then they should, yeah, they need to be responsible the both ways. So if they want to be people, then it's their fault too.

Jasmine: They can’t have it both ways! Exactly.

Amanda: You know, and you know what else? I think if people can be sentenced to death, then corporations should also have the death sentence.

Rachel: Well, on that note, onto Toast to Joy….

Amanda: Talking about the death sentence, onto Toast to Joy!

Rachel: So actually. Okay. You know? Okay. So this is a little bit this is actually my Toast to Joy does somewhat it's a little bit, it's a, it's a weird leap, but it is a little bit… so I am from Edmond, Oklahoma, which is where the murder of Paul Howell took place 20 something years ago. And Julius Jones was convicted of that murder.

Paul Howell is a family friend, both our families are very old families from the town. So when I was home over the holidays, I heard a lot of discussion around this topic because what happened was last week or two weeks ago the governor offered Julius Jones a stay of execution. So he will not be executed. There was a lot of celebrity and a lot of public pressure…

Amanda: People's voices matter! 

Rachel: So that's my Toast to Joy. What is your Toast to Joy Jasmine? 

Jasmine: So my Toast to Joy is kind of on the same vein and we talked about it earlier. So I'm going to be really honest. I have been really on edge lately with everything that's been going on in our country and just always feeling like the bad guy seems to always win.

It was affecting me. It was not just affecting me mentally. It was affecting me physically and I, you know, ended up having to get treated for ulcers. And like, I had a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety. And so one, I decided to take a personal day recently and go to a spa and relax, and just like melt into just like myself and just say, “let me just like breathe and not feel like I have to carry the world on my shoulders,” but not just that.

I was carrying a lot of anxiety leading up to the verdict of Ahmaud Arbery case, especially after the Kyle Rittenhouse case, I was bracing myself for the worst. And as they read the verdict, I kid you not like I literally screamed out loud and it was a good screen, but it scared Jada. I will say that I scared my daughter.

I was holding on to… it was like I was holding my breath for months. And then I finally got a chance to exhale. So my Toast to Joy is just to finally getting a chance to exhale. I still feel like the world has a lot of problems that needs to be fixed, but at least in that, you know that one little tiny slice of justice was done.

Rachel: That's a small victory. Remember when we talked about the small victories?

Jasmine: Yes! The small victories.

Amanda: Like, come on world. I need this exhale, just come on.

Jasmine: And on that note, Amanda, what's your Toast to Joy?

Amanda: So my Toast to Joy is I actually have an op-ed out today for MarketWatch and I'm super excited and it actually kind of relates to what we're talking about.

So the op-ed is about kind of the cities that women prefer and the cities that men prefer. Where do we like the same cities? Where do we like different cities and why? And one of the reasons why is actually because both men and women prefer cities that have better environmental quality, but women especially do. And then, because I'm a little competitive sometimes I was like, “well, which city ends up doing better?” And the cities that women pick have better economic success than the cities men pick. So it's a super fun op-ed I was really excited about it. So my Toast to Joy is this fun little op-ed and this fun little research I got to do.

Jasmine: I love it! I I think there's a lot about just listening to women. This is a recurring theme over the last however many episodes. We know what we're talking about people. Listen to us. We got this.

Amanda: Thanks so much to everyone for joining us today. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to leave us a rating and review. We'll see you again next week on another episode of the Suburban Women Problem.