The Suburban Women Problem - Episode 6
Jasmine: Hi everyone. Thanks for listening. I'm Jasmine Clark.
Rachel: I am Rachel Vindman.
Amanda: I’m Amanda Weinstein.
Jasmine: And this is The Suburban Women Problem. So welcome everyone, thanks for joining us! Today, we are going to be talking about how women have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic and how we as a country need to value the work that women do.
We'll also be speaking with Heidi Lewis, a mom who recently went viral with a photo of herself on her laptop, in the bathtub, trying to work remotely while entertaining her toddler at the same time. Which I can relate to! And after we talk to Heidi, I get the chance to speak with Hakeem Jeffries, Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus on why we need to center women as we rebuild our economy.
So we all know that for a long time, too much has fallen on women's shoulders. So for example, childcare, elder care, just the general emotional labor of organizing everyone's life and everyone's schedule and everyone's everything, on top of often having to work full time. So what has your experience been like through the past year and a half during the pandemic?
Amanda: It’s been rough. So teaching and being a mom, I felt like— so I have a friend who's a first grade teacher, and I thought she put it so well when she was like, “this last year was like teaching two years. Every day was like two days in one day.” And I was like, that is the perfect description. That is exactly what it feels like.
So I gave myself some extra leeway where I was like, okay, if every night I have a margarita and nachos, which I did every night of the shutdown, right? That's okay. And I gave myself that leeway over the shutdown and I'm like, “I can do anything for a month.” But… I can do anything for a month, I feel like, but I can't do everything for a year.
And so what happened is over the shutdown, I put a lot of stuff off and I just said, “okay, I'm not going to have time for research. I'm just not even going to try.” And I pushed it off and I pushed it all off as much as I could, but I can only push that stuff off for so long. We struggled a lot and we were pretty lucky because our school year was actually mostly most of the school year. Our kids were all in. I have no idea how the moms did it who are virtual nearly the whole year.
Jasmine: So I am one of those moms where my daughter was virtual the entire year. She finished her school year at the end of May. It was definitely difficult. Not just for me, but for her as well. You know, it was her first year of middle school.
And so, you know, I appreciated the option for her to be at home, but I can definitely say that work-life balance just became this like figment of my imagination. Like, it just wasn't a thing. When you work from home, it feels like you're never off from work. There is no separation. So I was mom, I was lecturer, I was, you know, I was legislator. I was all of these things all in my home at the same time. And then, add in the fact that you still have a household to run. Still got to cook, still got to clean. Still got to make sure that, you know, everyone brushes their teeth and takes showers. So it was, it was a lot. I can definitely say it was rough.
Rachel: I think it was rough because it was everything all the time. It was doing every single job every hour, you're doing little parts of everything. And that's why it did every day felt like two days because it was. Everything all at once.
And I think our experience, my experience, was a little different because it was a huge transition year for my family because my husband retired from the military. So we were already going to have a weird year. And we had already had a weird six months before the shutdown. So things were different, but at the time of the shutdown, I was employed. I had a retail job, like a lot of military spouses, you know, most are unemployed or underemployed.
It was a job that I could, financially, I could easily quit it, but psychologically it was hard to give it up because it was just mine. And there, I was just Rachel. I didn't fill any other roles. Of course, I am extremely grateful that we didn't experience financial difficulties during the pandemic. But there are a lot of other difficulties that women face. And I think people who were in my situation might feel a little guilty that, you know, we had everything we needed, we were secure. And again, for that, I am incredibly thankful. But it's okay, no matter what your experience was, to say, “it was hard.” Even if it wasn't as hard as other people, I think it's okay to give yourself permission to say, “Well, I never want to do that again.”
I survived, but I might have some lingering issues from it. And my relationships, you know, I might need to work on that. Some one-on-one with my children that's actually fun. That's not me being a task master all the time. That’s not that time when I lost my mind and yelled because I was sick of making three meals a day all the time for people who just thought it was my job.
Amanda: I know! My daughter did not like me as a teacher. And she has no problem telling me that. And she's like, “she was tough!” I was like, “but fair, right?” She was “no, just tough.” Like, oh, she's like, “I would never want you as a teacher.” And I was like, okay, well, glad that's over. Like, it was hard. That relationship difference.
And your experience, Rachel, is pretty typical. Women were the ones who were more likely to quit their jobs, right? That's what all the statistics showed. Women were the one to take a setback and to be that kind of safety net during the pandemic. We were also the ones more likely to put our computers next to our kids. Where the women, right, take their computer, move it next to your kid so that you could be working at home if you had that opportunity, but you also were right next to your kids so you could help them with their schoolwork, make lunch, help them with their schoolwork, get a little work done. And women were the ones that have to have all those hats all the time.
Rachel: Yeah, definitely not easy. And so does this mean that you're not going to be starting those Econ for elementary student classes?
Amanda: I started the pandemic with a goal of like doing that. I was like, oh, wouldn't that be fun, if I did a virtual econ class for elementary school students. Then I was like, oh, “nope, that would not be fun.” And that time I thought I would have at home was… it did not work out the way that I expected.
Jasmine: Isn't it weird how there are some people that are like, “I did like all these amazing things during the pandemic!” And I'm like, well—
Amanda: Apparently everyone made bread! I didn’t get that memo.
Jasmine: A lot of people were making bread. I did see a lot of that happening. I had one person, she wrote a book. And I was just like, I feel like I am underperforming dramatically. But I'm like, at the end of every day, I am always tired. So I'm like, I know I'm doing things! But I mean, I applaud people who had the ability to do those things, but I I'm with you, Rachel. I think we have to extend all of ourselves a little bit of grace that we made it through. And whatever that “made it” looks like, like, you know, it's okay. It's okay. If you didn't come out on the other end feeling like Wonder Woman or Super Woman or whatever.
Rachel: Just survived! No, not just survived. Surviving is a great thing.
Last weekend I tweeted about, or a couple of weekends ago, I tweeted that we were working at our house, getting all the things done that we didn't do while we were sitting at our house for a year. But now we were getting all those projects done. And I had so many responses to it and people were like, “yes, I totally agree, same here." And I was like, “oh, this feels so good, that I'm not the only one.”
Amanda: But a lot of the burden of childcare and all this stuff that we're doing is not just our time, but also the financial burden. So if we are able to have access to childcare outside of the home, it's pretty expensive. So one year I looked and we were paying more in daycare than tuition costs at Ohio State University. This is a big financial cost they really don't prepare you for. Like, you know college is going to cost a lot, but no one's like, “oh, by the way, So does daycare.” You just kind of have the kid and then you're like, “whaaaaat?”
Jasmine: Definitely I can say after I had my children, I just didn't realize just how expensive daycare would be. Like, basically I'm going to be paying two mortgages. The care for children comes out to almost a mortgage. You know, you do it if you can, because you don’t have a choice, but sometimes it doesn't actually make financial sense for some families to spend that amount of money. And it actually makes more sense to stay at home.
So I completely empathize because I know like I have been in a situation where pretty much my entire paycheck went to my home and childcare. And so I think as we, as a country, continue to talk about how we're having a worker shortage, I think that needs to be a part of the conversation. A lot of people, it doesn't make sense for them to go back to work. It just doesn't.
Amanda: No. And we hear about it as a worker shortage. Like you said, it doesn't make sense to go back to work when you can't even afford the daycare while you're at work. And so I've heard a lot of economists call it— not a worker shortage, but a wage shortage. Right? Because if the wages were high enough, they would be able to afford daycare and go back to work. But the wages aren't high enough.
Rachel: Yeah. And I think a lot of women that making that decision to pause their career. But it's not the decision they want to make. This is an issue that we haven't dealt with.
I know the culture of the military, as a military spouse, it's changing, but it's still tremendously popular for women to stay home. And some of it again is sort of just logistical. I don't think it’s, like, everyone’s desire. You know, when you move, it’s one person has a job and it's not the spouse, generally speaking. So then the spouse's job is to get the household established because you know, to unpack everything and, you know, take care of the children and get everything done again. If people want to choose that, that's fine, but everyone should have a choice. And I just feel like in today's day and age, you know that that choice isn't there.
During the pandemic, Alex's cousin, she is a professor. She worked so hard. She just had a one-year-old and a three-year-old during the pandemic. And she kept telling me, “when this is over, I'm going to put on my CV that I kept two small children alive for a year.” Because their daycare wasn't open. So compared to her single friends and her male colleagues who were able to all that time, when I wasn't organizing my house that I mentioned earlier, they were using that time to write. They were using that time to do research, to complete projects. You know, I was so sad talking to her because she just felt like how can she ever gain what was lost?
Amanda: Yeah. A lot of the journals started tweeting out that their submissions were actually going up, their article submissions. And immediately women started saying, “how are your submissions going up? Because I know my research has stopped.” And eventually they found out it was all from men. Men's research and productivity in academia actually went up over the shutdown and over the last year, but women's went down drastically. It was all from men, the increase.
So— your cousin, you know, and you're thinking about like what you would put on your CV… so LinkedIn for a time did not have a way to say that you had stepped away from the workforce and you were a stay at home mom for awhile. And that actually changed over the pandemic where they said, “no, this is wrong. Like you shouldn't have to show like it's a gap and you're doing nothing because we know women are not doing nothing just because they are in paid employment.” And so LinkedIn actually changed their policy. And now you can have an official status that basically says, you know, I'm a stay at home mom, and this is what I am doing, and this is work too. And this is meaningful.
Jasmine: What do we need to do as a society to be better when it comes to, you know, care work and like, what do we need to do to really empower women in our economy and in our country? Because I mean, our stories are not unique.
Amanda: Yeah. The research shows that care work is devalued. And so here, when I talk about care work, I'm talking about paid and unpaid care work. So because we associate care work with kind of this role that women should do care, work it's devalued.
And so that means it's devalued both in the home— so the stay at home moms, the value that they bring to their families and society is undervalued or devalued… that also is directly tied to how we value paid care work, how we value childcare, workers, teachers, anything associated with care. That this is valuable, right? This is what kept us going over the last year was the care that we did for people who got sick with COVID and the care that women did in their homes to just keep our country going. And we don't have the kind of safety net that other countries do.
So that means in our country, women are the safety net and that's exactly what we saw happening with the pandemic. It magnified the fact that women are our safety net. It's not like that in other countries, there are the countries where, you know, parents are actually less stressed than non-parents and they're actually happier. Whereas in this country, parents on average are not as happy and they are more stressed because we don't have a lot of that safety net type stuff. In France, they will even have a state paid worker come help you with your laundry when you have a newborn. Right? All of these things you—I’m not saying we necessarily need that in America, it would be nice, I would like that—but there's so much that we don't have in the US that could be helping parents out and could be helping all parents out and all families out.
Rachel: I mean, I think we need to address those issues. We need to find some way to support families and to support the 2 million women who dropped out of the workforce because of COVID, you know, maybe for once we should actually ask women how to solve the problems that women have. We know the problems we have and we also know how to fix the problems.
So in fact, let's go ahead and talk to another mom right now who has also been dealing with these issues of work and childcare.
Jasmine: Heidi Lewis, welcome to the podcast!
Heidi Lewis: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Jasmine: So you had a viral moment recently that resonated with a lot of moms across the country, when you were actually featured on Good Morning America, which is like a small goal of mine! It was a picture of you on your laptop, in the bathtub, trying to get some work done while you entertained your toddler. And moms across America saw that and said, “Yes! Finally, this picture captures my experience. This is me.” So tell us a little bit about the photo and what led up to that moment.
Heidi: Well, first I have to say I was fully clothed and I was working and I was not actually in the bath! And that was just a regular day, right? That was just the chaos and the ridiculousness and the absolute unscripted insanity of trying to work with two young children at home all day long. And on that particular day, it was pouring rain. And my husband had just started a new job before the pandemic, you know, he had that new job energy, right? And for my husband, he had to be really responsive and at his computer. And so did I. I work for an independent bookstore in Washington, DC and I work in events specifically. So at this time our events were being canceled and canceled and moved online and it just felt like everything was in freefall. So that moment was captured when it was pouring rain, and we dragged this water table inside and I sat in the tub, hoping that my daughter could play a little bit in this water table.
Amanda: Yeah. Because with the older kids, they can like, sit and do their homework for a couple hours. But even with my, you know, my oldest is seven and her time period would be about 20 minutes I could get her sitting doing something. And after that, we had to refocus, do something else. It was rough with little ones.
Heidi: Yeah, right? But I didn't share the photo until a year later because you know how everything shifted when it was like the vaccines were rolling out and we were starting to feel optimistic and everyone was sort of talking about what's it going to look like next or going back. And I was like, “wait a second. I need to show you what this year has looked like for me, because I'm not going back to any version of this and I'm still really pissed off.”
Amanda: So how, what do you think we need? So we talk about like, that you were pissed off about, this was a situation that we just threw onto the laps of moms. So, what do we need to take this off of the laps of moms?
Heidi: Oh my God. I mean, childcare was broken before the pandemic and we have long viewed what we do with our families as an individual problem. So, what do I think needs to happen? I think we've come through this pandemic and seen nobody can do their jobs without childcare. Right? I mean, that's what it looks like as a mom and—
Amanda: It’s infrastructure.
Heidi: Exactly. So as this conversation started bubbling up, you know, childcare is infrastructure, it's roads and bridges. I was like, yes.
Jasmine: I love what you said about not going back. Even though the pandemic exacerbated a lot of these issues, they didn't just appear out of the blue, like, it wasn't like shut down day, all of a sudden there was a mom crisis. And I just, you know, I can't figure out why as a society, it's so hard for people to buy into the idea that childcare is infrastructure and to buy in to the idea that investing in care and investing in children helps everyone.
Heidi: I think it starts when a woman is pregnant, right? I mean, I think if you want to know why we're sort of in this mess, I think unpack it that far. And it's always this invisible labor, you know, it's, it's what we're sort of doing in our minds. It's the mental calculations, it's the gymnastics of scheduling and all the things that you can't see in my photo.
So I think when people saw that photo, it was like, “oh right, this is this individual pain that we're all bearing inside of our homes." So it's been exciting to see that the Biden administration has these paid leave changes on the table. And, you know, it's just heartbreaking to me that it took this pandemic to really blow all of this up and get enough momentum towards these changes that we've needed for so long.
Amanda: I think moms are ready for those changes for paid leave for universal pre-K and childcare and better access. We want this village, this supportive society, where we are viewing this idea of childcare as a village activity. And I think that's part of why your photo resonated so much is so many moms are like, “I see this and we want to change this.”
Heidi: I mean, it's just like these little tiny things. It's it's like, once you realize this is a problem, I can't stop seeing it. I feel crazy because I just see it everywhere. I'm like that person did not think about the fact that those people have children they need to take care of.
Amanda: Work places didn't call women and say, how can we do this virtual with you? What can we do? Those conversations just didn't happen.
Heidi: In my photo, I was just sort of like, “Look. Like, this is how hard this is.” You know, it was a way of like telling people how hard it is. But I get nervous when we think about businesses fixing this problem. I think that leaves a lot of people behind and that makes me a little nervous. I think it's great that businesses are signaling that they want to help, right, and that there's some energy there, you know, especially getting behind paid leave and things like that. Cause I think they do all go part and parcel, they’re part of the same problem. But it does make me nervous.
Jasmine: Yes. That is definitely something that I deal with as a legislator. And honestly, this was an amazing conversation. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness on this subject. And I love that, you know, your picture of you in the bathtub sparked a conversation and hopefully we can get better policy. So thank you so much for being with us today.
Heidi: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.
Jasmine: So after this, my interview of Congressmen from New York and Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, Hakeem Jeffries. We talked about being at home with our kids during the pandemic and how we can create policies that support women. And as well, I also got to talk about his favorite classic New York foods. So this interview is coming up after the break.
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Jasmine: All right. Well welcome, Chairman Jeffries. Thank you for being here and welcome to The Suburban Women Problem. So I'm going to jump right in because I know your time is very valuable. I just want to start by asking you… being an elected representative—I know, cause I'm also an elected representative—it’s a very, very demanding job where you're asked to do so much. And then you're married to a social worker, and I'm pretty sure that is a notoriously demanding job as well. So how do both of you manage your professional and family life and still find time to hang out with each other?
Congressman Jeffries: Well, it's a great question and it's great to be on with you. Appreciate the work that you're doing. And you know, my wife is a social worker, her father is a social worker, my mother was a caseworker who worked for the Department of Human Resources… I’m not sure what happened to me! So one, I've got great respect for the social work profession. And as you indicated, it is incredibly challenging. I think for us in the Jeffries household, you know, we value the family time that we're able to spend together with our now-teenage boys. But certainly that journey with them has been an amazing one, pre-pandemic. We all looked forward to spending time on a Saturday or a Sunday afternoon, going to the movies. That obviously was put on the shelf temporarily during the pandemic. And hopefully we'll be able to reemerge and practice that family tradition, but the living room became the movie theater in many ways. And certainly in the initial days of the pandemic, spending that time together I think has been a blessing for a lot of American families.
Jasmine: Absolutely. So I am the mom of a teenage boy, he just turned 15 last month, and a preteen who will become a teenager at the end of this year. So I empathize with the journey of parenthood and, you know, raising teens slash pre-teens. So you said y'all were at home during the lockdown…. how was that, like, how was it being at home? You, your wife and two teenage boys, where you really couldn't go anywhere else?
Congressman Jeffries: Well, you know, we live in a New York style apartment and so we didn't, you know, Prospect Park is our outdoor space, there is no backyard. And we also had to make the adjustments in terms of moving from being physically present, either in school, as it relates to our two boys, or at work, as it relates to myself and my wife. You know, during the early first few months, we probably had more family dinners sitting down around the dinner table, eating and having conversation with each other, in that period of time than in the prior 16 to 18 years of their life, I think. Because it was every day, every night, every night, every night, every weekend. And I think that was just a wonderful thing because people's schedules were all synchronized for the first time. And I think we've emerged closer as a family, as a result.
Jasmine: I can definitely agree with that. I definitely spent a lot more time with my children, had conversations with them that I just never really had time to sit down and have with them. But now you're sitting at the table, you're looking at each other and you're like, so how was your day? And you start to get into things.
And then there was so much happening in the world at the same time that we had an opportunity to actually talk about those things and process what was going on around them as well. So I definitely cherish those moments. I know that the pandemic brought a lot of devastation, but if there was one silver lining, it is definitely the amount of family time that came out of that experience.
Congressman Jeffries: Yeah. And that's a great point that you made in terms of what was happening in the world, right? Because you had a once in a century pandemic, you had the Trump presidency, chaos crisis confusion corruption. Then you had the racial justice moment. And the opportunity to really reflect and talk about these incredibly serious issues as they were unfolding… it was a unique opportunity.
And obviously there was a lot of pain and suffering death and devastation in the early days in Brooklyn and in New York City in particular that we were grappling with. And so I think we were all just thankful for our healthcare heroes, our first responders, our essential workers as we continue to be. And we want to make sure that we stand with them as we move forward.
Jasmine: Right. So women made up the majority of those who left the workforce during COVID. And so much of that is because of the care of the family is so often put on the shoulders of women. We're working on Building Back Better, and as we do this, how can we ensure that women will be looked after when—not if, but when—the next pandemic happens? And I say this as a person who is in science, who has studied microbial history, and I know it's inevitable that it will happen again. Now, will it happen in our lifetime? Who knows. But regardless, how can we ensure that the next go-round women, will be looked after?
Congressman Jeffries: This is an important issue for the House Democratic Caucus, right at the top of our priority list. We have a week of action and events connected to the caring economy because we want to make it clear that we view lifting up women and the caring economy and the role that they've traditionally played in that regard and valuing that work in every way possible, including making sure that that work is compensated. Particularly given what we've witnessed during the pandemic, that's going to be essential and all across the country, members of the House Democratic Caucus will be having events to highlight the caring economy.
We also have a caucus briefing that's led by our Women's Caucus that will be focused on what they are terming the she-session. Of course not a recession in many ways, but there's a she-session that has continued to exist because of the fact that women are disproportionately out of the workforce, as you point out, and are unable to return to the workforce.
And so when we talk about the American Jobs Plan and the investment in physical infrastructure, that's important—bridges, roads, tunnels, airports, our mass transit system crumbling. But in physical infrastructure, as you know, the overwhelming majority of those jobs, when you're talking about fixing bridges, roads, tunnels, things of that nature, are male dominated jobs. And so just investing in physical infrastructure will actually exacerbate the divide, the gender divide, that already exists.
And so that's why President Biden has included in his American Jobs Plan proposal $400 billion for what we phrase as the “caring economy”: investing in home care, investing in childcare, investing in our essential workers. They're not just essential during a pandemic. They are essential every day of the week. And we need to make that clear, not just talking the talk, but walking the walk in terms of how women are compensated. And then in these traditionally male dominated industries, we also want to look for opportunities for greater expansion and reducing the level of male dominance.
Jasmine: I love that. I think that's really important for us to have a plan for the future, but also making sure that we're showing up for women right now who are struggling right now because of the pandemic.
Congressman Jeffries: Yeah, well, we have to make sure that we get the American Jobs Plan over the finish line. In the House, I'm confident that we've got the capacity to come together and get it done. The Senate… is the Senate is the Senate, but the Senate needs to make sure that they can get their act together in the same way that they did to get the American Rescue Plan, and that was critical, but we have to also make sure we can get the American Jobs Plan over the finish line.
And subsequent to that, the American Families Plan, which will be another level of investment in our American families with an emphasis on childcare and things of that nature. I'd also point out that starting next month, as a result of the American Rescue Plan, the enhanced refundable child tax credit will start to be paid out. And because of the enhanced child tax credit, which was pushed by. A chairwoman, Rosa DeLauro and several other prominent members of the House Democratic Caucus and women leaders in Congress. We believe that we will cut childhood poverty in half in the United States of America.
Jasmine: Yeah, that's amazing. I have been extremely impressed with the boldness of the plans and proposals coming out of this administration.
All right, so, switching gears. You and I are both Representatives, you obviously at the federal level. So my colleagues… they're a little flowery at times, but you have some colleagues—and I guess I do too—that are basically a little removed from reality. So what is that like for you and how do you cope with, you know, having colleagues that can look you in the face and tell you that the January 6th Insurrection is not a big deal or that Joe Biden is not actually the president? Like how do you deal with that?
Congressman Jeffries: Great question. And I think many of us are still grappling with those dynamics and trying to figure it all out. Traditionally, we come to Washington with our ideals and our perspectives on things, channeling the views of the people back at home that we're privileged to represent. Understanding that in a Congress where you have 435 different districts representing 435 different parts of this big and great country, that people are going to have different life experiences, different ideologies and different views on a lot of the issues of the day. We should be able to agree to disagree, uh, without being disagreeable, whenever necessary. And finding common ground whenever possible.
That certainly has been my approach. And I've taken that approach even with the prior Trump administration, where we worked together. One of my former colleagues from Georgia, Congressman Doug Collins, a conservative from rural Georgia, working together with me, Hakeem Jeffries, progressive Democrat from The People's Republic of Brooklyn, on criminal justice reform of all things… resulting in the First Step Act with Democrats and Republicans, progressives and conservatives, the left and the right, the NAACP and the Koch brothers, the ACLU, The Heritage Foundation, and all points in between, came together to send the bill to Donald Trump's desk that he signed into law to strike a blow against mass incarceration in America… that's what we should be able to do.
But January 6th took it to a whole other level. And I can only really reflect on the words of Ulysses Grant, former Union general and subsequently President of the United States of America, but General Grant in 1861 penned a letter where he said, “whatever my prior perspectives have been, I have one goal. Now we have a government and laws and a flag, and they must all be sustained.” Saying this in the middle of the Civil War. He says, “there are two parties now: patriots and traitors.” And I never thought in my time in Congress that the words of Ulysses S Grant, written during the Civil War, would have applicability in modern day America. But when you see Liz Cheney, who I disagree with on a whole host of issues, but have tremendous respect for even prior to her courageous stand after January 6th. When they choose patriotism over party, choose the rule of law over the big lie, and they oust her… how do we deal with these folks?
Jasmine: I completely understand where you're coming from on that.
All right. So your time is very valuable and I want to make sure that I'm a good steward of your time. So now we're going to move to the fun part of the day. And that is where we jump into our rapid fire questions. So are you ready?
Congressman Jeffries: Ready, ready as I’ll ever be.
Jasmine: Okay. On June 22nd, New Yorkers will use ranked choice voting for the first time to vote in the primaries for mayor. So what I want to do is a little bit of ranked choice voting right now. Can you rank choice these New York famous foods… pizza, bagels, cheesecake, black and white cookies, and a bodega bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich on a roll.
Congressman Jeffries: Wow. Those are some classics there. So I'd rank a bagel number one, but a pumpernickel bagel. Number two, cheese cake. Junior's Cheesecake of course, vanilla bean being my preference. Then black and white cookies, shout out to the black and white cookies. Amazing. Uh, pizza fourth, I've kind of tried to dial back the pizza just to try to maintain my athletic fighting condition for the congressional baseball game.
And then I've never really been that partial to bacon, egg, and cheese on a roll. Though it’s one of my sons’ favorite New York delicacies, but apologies to them. They get ranked number five.
Jasmine: Gotcha. I have never had a Junior's cheesecake, but I have heard amazing things about them.
Congressman Jeffries: Let me get one sent out to you.
Jasmine: Perfect. All right. Second question. If you absolutely had to leave New York, where would you choose to move?
Congressman Jeffries: That's a tough question. Is this in the United States or outside the United States?
Jasmine: Either way, either wherever you want to go.
Congressman Jeffries: One of the places that I've never visited, but want to visit and whether I ultimately would want to live there, you know, it's a different story, but I certainly want to visit is the Cape Verde Islands now known as Cabo Verde, because I have some family roots. there. My mom is half Cape Verdean and so that makes me a quarter Cape Verdean. I've never been to the islands. She's been there, and of course her father, my grandfather, was a hundred percent Cape Verdean. And I certainly would appreciate the opportunity to spend some significant time there.
Jasmine: Awesome. Awesome. I don't know much about that place, but now I'm going to go look it up. Cause it sounds amazing.
All right. So what song do you sing every word to at the top of your lungs every time you hear it? And bonus points if it embarrasses your kids.
Congressman Jeffries: Well, I, as you probably have experienced, we all when we hit a certain age of parenthood, apparently we all embarrass our kids. But you know, I would say the classic song for me is really from the Notorious BIG's first album: “Unbelievable.” In part because it starts, you know, “Live from Bedford-Stuyvesant, the livest one, representing BK to the fullest.” And listen, that was written in 1994, but I feel like Biggie's talking about me! At least trying to represent that for Stuyvesant and Brooklyn as best that I can.
Jasmine: I love it. I love singing karaoke and so I practice a lot at home. So I'm always singing and I pretty much embarrass my kids on a regular basis. That's fine.
All right. So what is the funniest thing you have ever witnessed in the halls of Congress?
Congressman Jeffries: That's a great question. You know, there've been many moments of comedy, some that I probably can't necessarily share, but I will share the one that I actually think was the funniest for me. Which is… I serve on the Judiciary Committee and during the Trump years, so I guess the first two years of Donald Trump's presidency, when Republicans had control of the House, there was a hearing that took place on the House Judiciary Committee that was then chaired by the Republicans. So they control the majority of the witnesses.
And two of the witnesses who testified were Diamond and Silk. I had no idea who Diamond and Silk was. And Hank Johnson—another Georgia connection!— I believe Hank Johnson is the only Buddhist currently in the United States Congress. He's a skilled lawyer by training and he's got the classic Georgia Southern drawl, and he went all in on Diamond and Silk as only Hank Johnson being a Buddhist, a lawyer, and having a classic Southern Georgia drawl can do. And since I was just not prepared for who Diamond and Silk were and what they represented, I physically had to leave the House Judiciary Committee chamber because that exchange was one of the all-time congressional classics.
Jasmine: Haha. I think I remember that actually. All right, last question. What is something about being a Congressperson that no one tells you? Or what advice do you wish you had before you were sworn in?
Congressman Jeffries: Yeah, I think, you know, the intensity of the job was not something that I fully appreciated until I was sworn in and started serving in the House. Like you, I got my start in public service in the State House, in the State Assembly. And it was an amazing experience and things got particularly intense while serving the state legislature in and around the budget period, but when I got to Congress, it was clear that the pace was always intense.
And this was prior to the Trump years! During the Trump years, forget about it, super intensity and pressure because we were fighting to save our democracy and deal with this out of control presidency. But even when I first arrived, the schedule from very early in the morning till the end of the day when in Washington, and hearings and meetings, it was another level. And I think a former Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, John Larson, summed it up best when he said “the job of a member of the House of Representatives here on the Hill is to leave one meeting early to get to the next meeting late.” As only John Larson could do, summed it up in terms of the intensity of what we are expected to do on the Hill. What we should do, because we have the privilege of serving as a representative, and have to rise to the occasion to do. And that was sort of an unexpected surprise at how intense year round serving in the House could be. But I wouldn't trade it in for anything in the world.
Jasmine: Yeah, I can definitely empathize. Although I would say like you, I don't have as much intensity all the time, but there was definitely a lot for me when I think about like, you know, becoming a state representative, what I thought it was going to be like and then what it was actually like… there was definitely a whole different level of that expectation. I wouldn't trade it for the world, like I'm glad I'm there, but I definitely will say that you can't necessarily mentally prepare until you're like really in it.
Congressman Jeffries: Yeah.
Jasmine: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today on The Suburban Women Problem, and I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Congressman Jeffries: It was an honor to be on this podcast, The Suburban Women Problem. And so appreciate the work that you do and the work that everyone is doing to to make America the best that it can possibly be and continue our country's long necessary march toward a more perfect union.
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Rachel: Welcome back Jasmine. It was so great hearing your conversation with Chairman Jeffries. He's a big deal.
Jasmine: No, it was a really good conversation. And I love that he basically echoed a lot of the sentiments that we have had on today's show. Just about how important women are to our economy, to our country, to our society and how we need to actually reflect that in our policies.
Also, when I go to New York to watch a Broadway show with Chasten, I will also now get Junior's Cheesecake from Chairman Jeffries! So I am honestly looking forward to whenever this mythical trip to New York happens. I've got a lot to look forward to!
Rachel: I actually have one in my freezer, a Junior's cheesecake, in my freezer. They ship! So if in the future, you can not make it, then you can go to a plan B. But enjoy them person first.
Jasmine: So before we go, we like to leave you all with what we call a Toast to Joy. This week, my Toast to Joy is getting away. I think we talked about it a lot today when we talked about emotional labor, just feeling like we're always constantly on the go. And even though the pandemic is starting to take a turn, I'm still very, very busy. And so I decided that I was going to have a little getaway and get some time to myself. And I gave myself two days and I actually did not open—I did not bring!—my laptop. And it was amazing. I think I need to do that more often. It doesn't have to be at the beach, but I do think I need to allow myself time to just decompress and not constantly, constantly, constantly be on the go, wearing a million hats all at once.
Amanda: Was that with your kids?
Jasmine: No kids! Like I literally took a mini vacay. It was so sweet. It was so short, It was just a weekend, but for me, that is actually like, a big deal. I don't think I've ever gone that long without cracking open a laptop, checking emails, doing some type of work. And even though I'll have to play a little catch-up, I still feel like it was totally worth it.
Amanda: That’s the best. It's a true vacation. So we decided to plan on an adults-only little vacation in a month or so and I'm so excited. It reminds me of a couple of years ago, I went on a trip with just my sisters and it was so relaxing because I didn't do any work. I think it was more relaxing than I expected it to be. I don't know I was expecting, but it was just, I thought this was going to be great. And as even greater than I thought.
So my Toast to Joy is to our local small businesses. So over this pandemic, I saw our local businesses all within like a short bike ride of my house do so many amazing things to adapt and to cope and to really meet the needs of our local community from our local bookstore, The Learned Owl, which started delivering books to my house, which I appreciate so much too. We had local printing companies printing off kind of inspirational, You Can Do This type signs and Thank You To Our Essential Worker signs that they printed off for me. And I have just really appreciated all the small business owners and everything that they did to adjust to the pandemic, dealing with really hard situations to meet the needs of a community. And I think they do amazing things for our community. They don't always get the praise that they probably deserve.
Rachel: Absolutely. One of my favorite local small businesses is Heidi’s bookstore, our guest today! But just the care that they have for the community, not just for the store that you have, but what they represent and how much they give back.
Jasmine: Yeah. Small businesses are amazing. I really think we just don't give them enough credit for what they really do for our community. And you know, they're like a part of our community. A lot of the times, the small business owners, these are the people that don't mind sparking up a conversation with you. Like I've never had a conversation with any of the Waltons, but you know, the small business owners, they'll actually talk to you when you come in. So I agree. I mean, that's a great toast.
Rachel: So my Toast to Joy is, my husband and I are child-free for a few weeks. Our daughter's at camp. So we're working through that and we have some time to spend together, and I think we still like each other and we're going to do a deep dive on that and I'll let you know. I'll report back. But just to have some time to reconnect, you know, my daughter's 10, so I don't think we've ever spent, you know, more than a few nights away from her. I'm excited after so, so much time together in our house to get out and just take some time away. Like you said, Jasmine, to breathe, to not have devices. Playing some Yahtzee, some Skip-Bo, and just having fun. And remembering life moves really fast and only in one direction, but it's nice to kind of remember where you came from. So that's my Toast to Joy, to a child-free few weeks and just enjoying hopefully a little bit of a slower pace.
Amanda: Just eat that cheesecake out of the fridge and be like, this is dinner tonight. Enjoy. No plates, just get a fork, like Friends style.
Rachel: Right. I’m really glad I remembered that I have that cheesecake actually. That's the best part about the show for me. Haha.
Jasmine: Haha. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and a review. We'll see you again next week on another episode of The Suburban Women Problem.