Why We Hate Pt. 2 (Dr. Ibram X. Kendi recap)

for the books. Yes it was. And today we're sharing part two. We will dive even deeper into the topic shared at the Red Table and our guests personal experiences fighting against hate. Who It's a lot, but let's get into it. Dia explained that she used racism as an issue of the heart, and she said hate it's not something that you can confront with my foxts against your facts,

because it's emotional. You have to be able to reach some these heart So, Earnest, you gave a historical context to issues of the present day, so you're coming at these issues from a different way from Dia. But what results have you seen from teaching your students and others true black history. So something really interesting about my teaching experience is I've taught in the diverse environment. So my intention initially was I'm going to teach all black kids

all the time. And I quickly realized that I'm in America. The overarching goal is to do that because I know what this means to us. But I always say, now, like, I'm teaching to black people, but if you have a ear and a heart for you can listen in too. But just know it's not gonna always be for you. So I taught at a school where it was like predominantly Hispanic. You have kids who undocumented, white kids who lived in the rural town. It looked like the South

in a lot of ways. White kids who live in urban environments, White kids who had a lot of money, Black kids who had a lot of money, black kids who didn't. So I was in a diverse environment racially and economically. And one of the things I realized, and this is the premise of my book, actually, and this is a study done by a professor at Harvard and the University of Pittsburgh and says that when black children

I talked to have racial pride. They performed better academically, so like you can really put you can put something on these teachings. We are implicitly and sometimes explicitly talked to believe that we are inferior. This has been stated several times today in on the episode, and white children are implicitly and explicitly taught that they are superior. We

have to consciously nip that in the book. I've had kids tell me and I'm glad I have this in my phone under favorites because I have to show this in people for testimonial sometimes because sometimes people think you're

just talking to talk, right. I had a young man reach out to me, he said, Mr Krem, I wanted to tell you your content really helped me, especially throughout my chemotherapy, learning about the history of America, especially with being Jamaican in America myself learning about this interest and keep doing what you're doing. Appreciated and much love to you. I had somebody tell me that love your videos. They give me a sense of pride I've never had before.

When I was on Games podcast with my brother John Lucas, like we worked together, we are helping kids get into HBCUs Ivy League schools, top schools like USC or going to entrepreneurship. If they want, we're giving them scholarship money. A lot of this oftentimes is helping kids realize that

they have the potential to do something. But going back to my previous point, I've had white students tell me that I made a difference and I never thought I would, just being really after my first or second year teacher, I had a white child. This boy lived in a neighboring town, Confederate flag, all of that. Kids you not in class, kid was great, right, but online you have

the Confederate thing. He sent me a message one time it was like, Mr Cram, you are the only teacher that ever believed in me only, and you're the reason why I passed my exam to get into the military. Parents, I'm I'm teaching the online black history course. Now. I have a parent who's from Philly, but she had to move. I believe it was Montana or Wyoming, one of those states we always forget about. Don't get mad at me if you're listening from no faith, no offense. I'm just

saying no respect. But she was saying that she loved my class because our child is able to learn from a black educator who's teaching her these important principles, and she's able to be in an environment with other black children at the same time. She said, she's learning so much. She said, it's almost like the stories you hear when you're growing up, like the stories that your family passed down, and you can give you courage or it can deflate you.

And what I'm doing with history is saying we've dealt with some horrible things and some amazing things, but at the end of the day, we've countered this before. We just have to remind ourselves of what was done and recreate that in this generation. Yes, yes, yes, no, I love that. That was actually my next question. Have you seen others involved in real time? And have you been

in one interaction that shifted someone's mindset? And when I'm hearing I feel like I had a little revelation going back to of the person who wanted to see that fear in someone's eyes. And then like you said, that boy was Confederate in one place, but really listening in another space, it's like just that false security. I think we all want to be affirmed and revered and acknowledged and just seen and you're helping people to see that.

You're helping me see that just right here in this and Tracy, I told you too, like I'm constantly evolving and learning and unlearning just what I thought I knew. And it's a great place to be in. I hope everyone's having the same types of revelations as they're listening in,

because this is all key say. I think the key is something I've learned a whole teaching and diverse environments is, especially if you're teaching like a white child that comes from a history of this is you have to understand that these people are individuals and like Dr Gleason experienced, like they did not do what was done, but they were born into an environment in which it was done.

Kids are born into an unequal world, and they're born into a world and which they've taught that certain people have more because they are more, and other people have less because there are less. And then as they sort of come of age and people start telling them that the source of their struggles are those other people who don't look like them, that causes them to them hate them. So in a way of kids in our society, we

almost provide them with this unfortunate foundation to hate. So you have to make sure you're teaching them the facts and removing them individually, but also understanding and letting them know that they have the capacity to benefit from those tragedies or do something to change the course of history. And one of the things that I think is very important.

I think a Dr. Kenney touched on this as well, is making sure that whenever we show our black children the negativity that happened, you counter it and show them people who fault. And the same thing has to also be done if you're teaching a white child that too, because if you're going to constantly see that if you want to help, but you never see yourself helping, now you should have the capacity. So I can still do this, but we're talking children, it would make it difficult to

see how you fit into this puzzle. Right, true, I want to acknowledge that the fear has been the common denominator. It was true for Jeff, it was true for Jeff's grandfather, It was true for the quote unquote Harasser that you had earnest the fear and the trauma right from whatever someone experienced has translated or manifested itself into trauma for

someone else. What I love in this is that for you, Earnest, you have literally taken your traumatic experience, and the experience literally propelled you to the forefront and positioned you for your purpose. When you can have students from every socio economic background and from every creed and from every race and color tell you what you're doing has moved them and shifted their mindsets, you're really truly walking in your purpose. That is phenomenal. Appreciate that, and the real time will

pay dividends beyond our existence. Right the people that you touched, those fresh hearts that are open to the change, will then share that with their friends, and then their family members and their neighbors, and it will literally become a snowball of goodness and hope, because that's what we really need. I'm just grateful that you're doing this, and I'm grateful that you're sharing with us, and that you're here at this virtual red table. It's so important. Thank you for

sharing that. Jeff said that all it took for him to change was finally experiencing a one on one interaction with an actual person for I'm a group that he hated. When she was talking to me about how she felt as a child, how racism, how hatred made her feel diminished or less than. Something inside of me snapped, Susan, how have your connections or relationships that you've had with people who didn't and don't have the same background as

you shaped your point of view. I can go all the way back to my ninth grade birthday party, right where I invited all the kids who had come to the first and second grade party, who were all white. It was schools had just been desegregated in nineteen seventy in Georgia and across the South, And we got ready. My mama put out the dog right, she had the crystal punch bowl with the sherbet, two sheet cakes. We were ready to celebrate. I was counting my lute in

my head. And I invited a new friend who I had met in third grade. Her name was a Lisa. And the day of the party came, and the time for the party arrived, and no one had come into the driveway. And I sat on the porch and I, you know, did I take my cootie shot? What did I do? What happened? What happened? And my mom's getting phone calls inside the house, and what she's being told is, oh, my goodness, we just forgot that we had this event and we're not gonna be able to come to the party.

And these are folks we went to church with. And then a car pulled into the driveway and it was Lisa and she got out and I was a tomboy, so I was, you know, whatever, and some messed up blue jeans and she had this lovely like apricot confection of ruffles and she just looked fabulous immediately, like again, I don't even know I'm why am i and what am I doing? She's so much better than I am. And in that moment, my mother could have done a

lot of things. She could have been rude to Lisa because she's been told that now her child is her sona and Garda, because she's invited a black child to her party. She could have waited until afterwards and said we probably ought not invite folks like that. Over again, that's not what my mama did. What my mama did it was to say, that's just more cake for y'all. Oh my gosh, I love your mama. I know that

is the best thing ever. Do you hear me because you were getting ready to have a wang dang doodle, two sheet cakes and it's good crystal punch. That's a real party. I don't know. You just can't get it better than that ninth grade here in the South. You just that mean you were ready to have a real deal party. For me to try to wonder what was her experience of that event, right, I don't know. She

was two grades ahead of me. She was a relative of people that my brothers were friends with, which is how I got But I needed to try to start to wonder how did that affect her? And then in twelfth grade, Alison Williams just spectacular person, beautiful human being, and she was the first black student to win the Miss Evans High School pageant, and I was so excited

for her. She was my good friend. And the annual came out and normally the pageant winner would have been splashed across the annual, and all they did was put the picture of all of the women who were in the pageant and a little corner shot of her right and to see how devastated she was to not have that celebrated in the way that all the white girls who'd want it before had been celebrated, that empathy, the ability to be able to start to see life through

her eyes and through Lisa's eyes, and then going forward that this that kind of intimacy. It's not enough to be proximant. It's not enough. It's not enough to be working side by side. We have to get to know each other's stories, we have to touch each other's hearts. We've got to listen to what matters to us most. And that's what's gonna change what we're dealing with. Were those experiences, some of what you had that moved you

to create the Glistening Group. I've been lucky enough to be in Mississippi now for twenty five years, and I was the founding director of the Winter Institute for Racial Reconciliation at the University of Mississippi, and through that job, I helped to force Old Miss to acknowledge the so called in quotation marks Old Miss it's the slavery term to apologize for the exclusion of African Americans to the University of Misissippi in two thousand two at the forty

anniversary of the of that riot, and that led to being invited into Nishoba County on the fort anniversary of the murders of the three civil rights workers there, James Cheney, Andy Goodman, and Mickey Scharner, and I worked for eighteen months with a multiracial group of folks to call for justice in that case, then eventually led to the first state conviction of the ringleader of the murders. But the whole time I was there, the university tried to stop

me from doing that work. Right, the chancellor at the time, while I was invited to n Scheba County, said you can do tourism, but we don't really want you to get involved in justice. Well, we don't get reconciliation without justice, sir. That's right. Luckily, I had mentors and advocates who said, you need to keep doing what you're doing, but after a while, you just have to You have to leave and go to a place where you can do good work without having to fight somebody from stopping you to

trying to do the work. So that's why I've left the university after twenty years and created this group. You did not want to have to fight someone else so that you could fight against something else bigger, exactly. Yeah, I get it. That's good. Thank you. For the work because it's important, and I can tell you, as a woman of color, I get tired of hearing about what

we're supposed to do to change things. It is exhausting, and so I am grateful that you recognize, not just recently, it hasn't been this new awakening that you understood long ago and far away, the impact and the hate and

what it does to a person. So I'm grateful that you get it and that you identify that you need to sit down and get some other white people at the table for them to also identify and recognize they need to make some efforts to I appreciate that, and it's not a drop in the bucket to what needs to be done, so there's plenty more work to do.

I'm really excited I get to share with you all something that I haven't been able to tell anybody, which is that for the last two years I've been leading reconciliation conversations between the descendants of Arlington House, which was

Robert E. Lee's plantation WHOA. They have come together and the first action they're going to take is there was a bill that dropped last week jointly in the Senate and the House to remove Robert E. Lee's name from Arlington House because it's called Arlington House at Arlington Cemetery, the Robert E. Lee Memorial, and the descendants have come together to ask that name Robert E. Lee be removed from the memorial so that all the stories of that

place can be told. So I encourage folks to reach out to your your senators and your congressmen and get on board with that vote. Yeah that's huge. Yeah, that's powerful. That's Robert Lee is all around Richmond. Yeah. I thought about you earlier when you were talking about that, right, And this is the descendants of the persons at that pointation, and the descendants of Roberty Lee the fifth has joined that call to take that name off of that house. I wish I could sit down with those standing in

his grave right now, don't you know so? And you mean that in the most southern kind of way, in in the most southern listen. Another topic that the people at the Red Table got into was gun violence, and we heard from forensic psychologist Jillian Peterson who explained that, based on her research, mass shootings come from a person blaming a group of people for their struggle and getting

revenge or making a statement in this way. So we now collectively witnessed these shootings every day almost it feels like when it's going down, but more often than we like. And now we even have footage from cell phones and things like that. People at this footage and they should feel the same way, but they don't. People claim something happened.

They claimed this happened, they claimed they saw that. So they do this by labeling these shootings differently based on who is holding the gun and where the shooting happens, or passing blame from guns to mental health and mental health issues. Earnest, let me ask you, how has video footage. We know you have some famous video footage, but how has that affected these conversations? How would your situation have

even changed if there wasn't that footage available. Definitely it's twofold because in one respect, speaking about racism, I think that for the first time, we are collectively seeing the racism that our ancestors dealt with for so long, just in a different generation, of course. And when we're talking about shootings personally, I feel as though it's retraumatizing us

collectively because that's one thing that all Americans. I believe agree on that these things are tragic, even though oftentimes it does not persuade people enough that change things legislatively. When you hear about children, when you hear about people in schools at parades, we can all relate because we have black folks who were stolen with guns, traded for guns. We have this land that was concrete with guns. We all kind of have that in common a little bit.

We don't need to see the footage of the police and volved Texas. We know how horrible they were in that situation. It's re traumatizing us. And the same can be said to when we see racist videos for black folks that can re traumatize us. For white folks, for those who want to know more than for a lot of times, that can be their first time seeing something

like that. And I was envisioning this timetable. I want to kind of make you all privy to so black folks were brought here for the purpose of enslavement, even beyond sixteen nineteen of the English colonies, fifteen twenty six for the Spanish colonies in South Carolina, so we're talking roughly three hundred plus years of enslavement. We get cameras, photography around, they're more ubiquitous around eighteen fifties or sixties. Chattow slavery conclude so called concludes in eighteen sixty five

wards I say transition to the prison. So we're talking roughly ten to fifteen years of footage from enslavement. We know how bad slavery is and we don't even have proof, visually proved. Visual proof is what I mean, right, and it's already traumatic. Imagine if we saw a video of the Lashes, a video of Culture Kente getting whipped like that, It's it's tough for me to watch. I get angry, so I have to turn away when it comes on

a lot of times. Right, I watched Birth of a Nation and was traumatized, and I was like, why why did I watch that? Imagine what that turner went through, and then imagine what he did and then what they did to him. They were still passing his skull around his recent as five years ago. I just can't imagine. I just literally can't. Let me tell you to your point, Earnest, there is a phenomenal historical place that you can go to when you visit Memphis called Slave Haven. Enslave Haven.

It's a house. It was part of the underground railroad. And if you go to Slave Haven. Dr Susan, I, no you're not. You've been there, I know. And it gives you the opportunity to go down into what we would now call the basement or seller. It's real, it's the actual space and it shows just a little like one inch diameter whole that they had to breathe from while they were literally in the underground railroad, participating, actively

engaged in trying to be free. Go in that space and then come up and see those restraints that were used on the next and on the hand, it's a lot, it's a lot of trauma. And so when you start talking about gun violence and mass shootings, I am absolutely horrified when I see that happened period. But then the way that it's labeled, the way that it's labeled when we have the mass shootings is so different then the way that it's labeled when we have gun violence that

happens allegedly between quote unquote gang members. So I just I have a real hard time when it comes to gun violence because people are getting killed every day by guns. Like we said, right, we just know we have footage of it. Now, we know we can see it. But when there's a white man with the gun who goes to a church and kills people, and after sitting with them, he's walked out peacefully and then given something to eat.

Yet conversely, how many times have we seen footage of someone who's just pulled over for an alleged traffic violation and literally killed. That's gun violence too, And so I just y'all can take this and go where you want with it. I'm encouraging people who are listening to us to send us emails and tell us more about what you think, because this is not just the four of us.

It's a conversation we're all having. But I'm interested in knowing how do we reconcile that who That's a tough one, and you bring up some very important disparities and how this is discussing, And it's something that being from Chicago, when they have the mass shooting in Highland Park not too long ago, and seeing that reaction versus the reaction of what happens in Chicago, what I really hate is when it happens in a white community, it's, oh, how

could this happen here? I can't believe this. Firstly, we need to understand that the reason that community can be perceived as safe is because of the violence that happened before. Okay, like in any any community that's safe in America, proceeds violence Like violence created the walls of the illusion of safety. But when it's discussed in our neighborhoods, it's from this standpoint of look at them left black on black crop, look at no, no, no no. I just saw the

story recently, y'all. They were talking about the crime in Austin on the West Side of Chicago and talking about how it's the most violent neighborhood, and I retweeted and I said, no, it's the neighborhood that's been inflicted with systemic racism the most. The media never wants to give us context. It's almost all y'all just tripping and do better Black people. No, we didn't create this. We're in

a structure that's supposed to create what you see. The system works the way it is, so we have to dissect that bias, and we have to add this context so we can understand the different ways in which violence manifests, because it's not always the same route. We're dealing with trauma on all ends. But when we talk about mental health in our community, it's y'all be okay, try harder, you always so strong? Yeah, I don't want to be

oh Man, right. Yeah. Dr Abram X Kendy and Dr Jillian Peterson both said that the bird enough change should not be put on the oppressed people. In fact, Dr Kendy said, particularly in in white supremacist spaces, the people who can be the most powerful are the white people. If a white person stands up and says no, that's wrong, there's going to be a certain level of respect to that. Susan, in your work at the Glistened Group, do you find you are able to reach the hearts and minds of

white people? And at the same time, how do you ensure that you're approaching your work with humility and acknowledgement of your privilege in these spaces. So I'm going to tell you a story, because the neuroscientists tell us that our brains respond more to story than to facts, and that's how our work is effective. I was invited in two thousand and five to help try to figure out how to commemorate Emmetti and his murder by a group of black elected officials, and they is a pastor in

the room, understandably some suspicious. This white chick comes over from old miss and she thinks she's gonna help us do something about emmattill and he waited till everyone else has spoken, and he said, so, other than being here to make money off the blood of a martyr, why are you here? WHOA? And that's heavy, right, But he had every right and maybe even the obligation to ask

that question. And my job was to sit there and listen and take that because he had no reason to trust me until I could maybe do some work that would earn his trust. And that's what it took the other folks who invited me there. So we invited her here. She's just on this work in the show the County, you know, so we want to give it a shot. And so, thank goodness, unfortunately that folks were willing to

give me that shot. It's not personal to me, right, I'm representing folks who have been traumatized and harmed and colonized and all the things. Right, So that's my work that I have to deal with. That's not not anybod else's problem. So we wanted to move forward with an apology. And there was a white man who was the largest plantation owner in the Delta at the time, and he said he wouldn't have anything to do with it. He

didn't have anything to apologize for. He didn't kill emat till his parents didn't kill him at till he had nothing to do with it. And the group was gonna break apart, and a white woman in the group who he trusted, asked him if he'd be willing to let me come and visit with him, and he said, sure, but she's not going to change my mind, really, so that's okay. If you'll let me come visit with you, that'll be great. So I drove over the hour and a half. I went into his home with his wife,

and I said, just tell me what it was. What was it like growing up here, What was it like in the nineteen fifties when this happened. And he talked about the pride that he felt of that community and his lament that wasn't more advanced. There's not even a traffic light in the county where this happened. And so

I listened to him talk about that love. Right two hours I listened to him share stories with me, and at the end, I said, Mr. Much Ner, you love your community and you are sad that there hasn't been more development. But there's a jury of twelve men that stood up and said it was okay to kill a child, to torture him overnight and kill him and throw him in a river because he happened to be a black child.

And because y'all didn't stand up at the time and say that that verdict was wrong, that's the opinion that stands for this community. And why would anybody want to put a traffic light here or any other business for that matter, Why would anybody want to do that? So in lesson, until somebody challenges that narrative from this community, nothing is going to change. It's not fair, right, Sure,

you didn't do it. It's not fair, but is it right? Yeah, it's right for you to stand up and say that what was done in your name by citizens who were duly elected to serve on a jury did in your name. And so I handed him this statement that we had written there was in a statement of apology, and he said, give me the statement. I'm probably not gonna change it, probably not gonna sign it, but give me the statement, and I said absolutely, Just thank you for your time,

and I left. Two weeks later, we had a meeting and he walked in and he said, we need to pass this statement as a group. He entered the statement into the group's record and said, please, let's vote for this. And he'd only changed to words wow, But it was listening to his story and taking him seriously and then trying to share if you want this dream of your community to be manifested, then you've got to do the work that it's going to take to remove the obstacles

in place. I love that you're literally rewriting history. You're correcting history with truth, and you're removing those blinders, those rose colored glasses, those make believe fairytale stories people have given themselves, and you are just giving it the raw, unfiltered truth. That is what we need more of. We need more truth, we need more treat more true, We need more truth, and we need more white folks that understand that we need black leadership. We need to listen

to black leadership. I haven't been able to do anything that I've done without black leaders first preparing the way for me to come into a community. You're both doing great work to change how people think and treat each other. But obviously none of us have our minds totally straight. We can all kind of veer back and forth. We all have our experiences, perspectives, even upbringings that shape certain biases.

So for both of you who are out here in these streets during the work, how do you both work to keep your biases in check and fight against them. For me, it goes back to understanding that the purpose of our system. Now, as an educator, I go to the education system, the purpose is not for me to be an empowered black man. So I have to start from that basis and understand that potentially everything I learned was a lie. And not to say that it was factually a lot, but it was the facts were skewed

and used for a particular purpose. I'm not the person I am today because of the K through twelve CPS system, but I am the way I am because I eventually went back and question everything. And Dr Kennedy spoke about that about raising anti racist children. It's critical thinking. It's forcing them to ask why. I always question why do

I think that, Why do I perceive that? And I think the thing that I can say that probably all of us can connect to was the fact that there's a black American who descends from those who were enslaved. You have a unique history because you don't know exactly where you're from, Like I did the African ancestry tests, but it still feels weird to not be able to see like these were the people who were forced on the ship or whatever. Right, So like there's a disconnect

in a lot of ways. We are unique in this country because we have a lot of the African cultural normals, but then we had to mix it up and we had to hide it a little bit. So when I was growing up, my perception of Africa was poverty, it was sickness. Like I didn't learn about African school. We took World history in high school. We started with ancient Greece and Rome, not knowing that they went to Africa to learn. I thought it just me. I always thought

why didn't they come get us? I was always like a little upset, like how didn't they just come get us? But okay, exactly why didn't they come get up? Because there's the door of no return over there, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's it's heavy. It's heavy. That is super heavy. I had a friend, I believe it was sixth grade, yes, sixth grade, and I'll talk about him in my book, and he was Nigerian, directly from Africa. His family moved to the white neighborhood where I was being bussed to

go to school. So that was my first time meeting a black person who was from Africa. I didn't know it at the time, but I was unlearning, and he would mess with us a lot. There's actually a TikToker now. She'll take like these real foolish comments people say about Africa. They'll be like, they'll say that you all have air conditioner in Africa, and she'll say, no, we don't. We wait for the village elephants to come up. She'll say something real stilly like she says with a straight face.

He would play with us like, oh, yeah, I got this, that's from a line in our village, and just a little stuff like that. And I was learning at the same time, understanding that all I saw was the starving kids commercials they show with the flies on their face. That's all y'all showed us. That's all I saw about Africa. We had so much in common that took me to college. I want to take African courses and even now because

my primary focus is Black American history, I'm relearning. So I look at that is I was taught wrong about myself. We're all fed the same lines about each other and talk about feeding. Say something. If you heard you need to finish your food, don't waste food because children in Africa's star people still say it right, left over slaves children. But see that's the thing car that wasn't a leftoffer

slave thing. To me, that was like marketing genius. Well in my mind as well, not only just because the African kids, but also the level of the poverty that we had. I say, left over slaves stuff because we don't know where our next mail coming from. You better finish all that food. Like that essence just in the black community in general of finishing everything isn't just the African kids. But I see exactly what you're saying. Like either way, it was all wrong. Literally, we never had

an issue with food growing up. For me, that part the issue was my mom used to say it, though, you need to finish your clean your plate. The children in Africa start but you're like, okay, how do we get that the conditioning of and Susan helped me with this as well? Do some white people feel like they saved us? I've heard that before. This is actually a better situation than which what we took you from. I've

heard that as wall. It transformed from our founding fathers, right, all of whom were slave owners, from being argued as being a necessary evil to being a positive good. There was exactly that argument. By the time that abolitionists were saying, no, we this is horrible, we need to stop this. The response then was no, this is We've taken these in quotation marks savages, right, and we brought them to this country, and we have christianized them, etcetera, etcetera. And that mentality

certainly us down of nothing. Yeah, and you and we're better for it on it. And there were scholars of peace and molly in the fourth century BC. So don't talk to me about bringing folks over with it. We should have been learning and every indigenous culture that we colonized and then killed all that wisdom. Dr Susan, how do you keep your bias in check? We all have biased minds. We get twenty to thirty million pieces of information a second, and we can only process thirty to

forty pieces of information. So my brains make shortcuts. So we understand that right and the way to deal with them is acknowledged. That's how our brains work. We marry that with socialization. Then that's where discrimination, where prejudice attitudes come in. Jennifer Eberhardt is this amazing scholar at Stanford talks about frictional theory that we just need to introduce friction. When we have that thought, stop, take a beat, take a breath, and ask yourself right the other way to

say it, which we use in our work. We have guide posts for how to change the way we talk about things different conversational norms and Parker Palmer introduce this when things get difficult to turn to wonder. When you find yourself hearing something and you're starting to shut down, ask yourself, I wonder what happened to that person that brought them to that place? Or I wonder what my own reaction is teaching me? Then I need to learn.

So turning to wonder, introducing friction. Being humble, I was driving with my former partner who is a black man. We relate somewhere to a meeting. I said, can you put on the gas? He said no, because you know, if we get stopped, I might not be able to get home because of what the police might do. And this was not very long ago, and I just said it out of wasn't even paying attention, mortified, really wished I could have eaten through the seat of my car.

But just you gotta okay, that was not good. I need to pay attention. But I also can't just stay in this place of guilt, and I gotta do something with it. I gotta move forward, and I gotta help prepare because guilt is not enough. Love that we have had a most amazing, engaging, super D Right, it's been super d. But it's also been funny thanks to you car, because we've had some we've had some moments where I had to say, Okay, it's okay, Ernest, you can go

ahead and laugh. Really, yeah, what all you're doing. We appreciate the fact that we can balance just a position of your social work, your activism, your great calls. Susan, you doing everything you can. Dr Susan. Correction for myself, Dr Susan, you worked hard for that PhD and then we cut through it and talk about pizza and whiskey. So it's a good balance, right, That's kind of what makes us Americans. We can look at the hardships and learn the lessons and still be able to laugh. Right,

that's a gift. There's so many more things we could talk about, Oh, so many things like I have a checklist of things in my head. I still want to talk to you all about. However, come, we have got to bring it to a close. We have so appreciated both of you to have you guys back. I think please planning to come back. We appreciate you guys coming to the virtual Red Table. We love you to life. Man, thank you so much. Where can people find you? Let you go? Yes, yeah, you walk and follow me on

all social media at m r crim three. That's at mr crim three, primarily TikTok and Instagram, giving out education almost daily on that site. I also have ways in what you can enroll in my online black History course. I have the book Black History Saved My Life as well. Just always looking for ways to pour into our community and to people who are actively engaged in this work. So thank you all for having me. Absolutely Thank you Dr Susan, who was a delight and honor. Always good

to get into robust conversation with thoughtful, committed people. I'm old, so I don't have all that social media stuff that I should. I confess. So glisten Group isn't the website for our company, and if you go to glisten Group dot calm you can find you. Absolutely y'all are fantastic and earnest. It was just an honored privilege to be with you. Thanks for y'all's work. What a great conversation.

We're gonna take a short break right now, and when we return, we'll share our top five takeaways from this episode. I'm so glad we can have that conversation with our guests, and now it's time to share our thoughts. So presenting da Cammen and Chasey's top five thoughts. I love this. This is one of my favorite segments. This is a part of the show where we speed through five thoughts slash takeaways from the episode. Let's fire them off. So number five, no one is born racist, but kids are

born into an unequal world. Dr Kenny said this. I like that number four. When we hate a group of people, we are actually stripping away their humanity. Yeah, you think about that. And then hate. If you have a universal hate for someone, that's a really broad net to cast, a lot to carry around. You don't even realize how it's impacting you. Number three, if you have found your way into an echo chamber, get out, get out, get out, get out. We love that. That's good. Number three is good.

And number two embrace empathy, critical thinking, and diverse environments, especially for your kids. Oh that's key. Yeah, you can't just be just around only one kind of people. You should definitely try to broaden your horizons. Right, that's absolutely right, baby, Because and just ask his mom, do you know on the white people? And I was like, bo, you're not even these fools, right and right, let me see acknowledges. That's great. And number one, people are not the source

of our pain. Conditions are. That's an interestinct perspective. Don't fight each other, fight the systems that perpetuate inequality. Love. Yes, that's the whole message the people. It's cos it's conditions, y'all. Put us here, How can we get home? We want to know how you're feeling about this season of Red Table Talk, and we are open to talk about anything with you all, so send in your questions at Let's red Table that at red table talk dot com. Right.

We can't wait to hear from you, and we are so appreciative. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you subscribe on my Heart Radio app, and please rate this podcast on Apple podcast. We want a five. We'll be back next week for another episode of Let's Red Table That. Hey, Let's red Table that, Let's Red Table That. A big thank you to our executive producers Jada Pinkett Smith, Ellen Racketon and Falon Jethrow. And thank you to our

producer Kyla Kanaru and our associate producer Yalanda Chaw. And finally, thank you to our sound engineers Calvin Baylis and Devin Donnay.