Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith, and this is the Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on Apple Podcasts. On this Red Table Talk, she was adopted by white parents in an all white town. But I don't identify with black folks, and I'm not comfortable even sitting at this table with you now, She says, she feels lost cup between two races. I have no
sense of strong identity without knowing my culture. How am I supposed to raise a black child if I don't know Black culture? But if you're trying to counsel other people want how to do it? Counsel yourself. And then an emotional reunion with her birth mother. It's an overwhelming moment sitting in between parents. Willow, how do you think you would feel if you have been adopted by a white family. I literally have this zero idea. What about how I was raised. I've always been a very strong
proponent for black children being raised in black families. Well, I know how difficult it was trying to go to all white private schools, So I would imagine that being raised by white family would be changed. I mean, I guess living in Calabasas, there's so many yeah, exactly, but where you are, don't try it. But being young and going out and basically only seeing white people, that's my experience.
And your mother made sure that you went to school with black children, even if she had to create the school her dads off, which I did. Yeah, all right, well let's go. Let's go talk to to miss Angela and hear her story. So this is going to be a fascinating conversation. Angela Tucker, a black woman who was adopted by a white family, is at the table today.
Angela's birth mother, Deborah, was homeless and in poor health, barely able to take care of herself, let alone her newborn baby, who was just diagnosed with a form of cerebral palsy. Even though it tore her apart, Debor made the agonizing decision to give Angela up. She was adopted by a white couple, eager to give her a good life and to take care of her medical needs. They moved Angela into their home and they're all white town.
Angela says she loves her family, but that she grew up disconnected from black culture, and that has left her feeling more white than black. Now, Angela is using what she has learned in her personal struggle to help families navigate the challenges of transracial adoptions. I was embarrassed. You know, I didn't look like my parents. I look different, My eyes are different, my skin tone is different. People knew I was different. You were a doctor, you were thirteen
months yes, okay? And what was it like growing up in this all white town and and having white parents. I have no sense of strong identity. Being a transmracial adoptee is really difficult to share what we really feel because we have parents who raised us and love us, and we don't want to appear that we did. We're not grateful for what they've done. For me, to talk about transracial adoption honestly is to hurt somebody. I understand that keeping me alive and prioritizing my medical needs was
really important. And look, I'm alive today. I'm alive, but dead inside in some ways without knowing my culture and not being connected. So for me, I don't feel like transracial adoption is the right solution because essentially we're asking me as a black woman to assimilate into white culture, but to also keep my blackness somehow, even though I
wasn't raised within it. People often don't admit this, but a lot of black transracial adoptees look in the mirror and are surprised when we look in the mirror and see a black person because we're so used to seeing white people, and we see our parents and they're white and we love them, and so then when we see ourselves, like, oh, yeah, I forgot I'm black as a black woman, Where do you feel most comfortable? Where I fit in. Where I feel like I actually belong is with other transracial adoptees.
So I feel like white people are comfortable around me. I'm comfortable with white people. It's not that I don't want to identify as a black woman, but not growing up with black culture and feeling fear. When I met my birth mother and my whole birth family, I was a little bit afraid to meet them because they're a black family and I haven't been around that, and so exactly I can't consider it alien to you, like completely unknown,
it was and therefore kind of scary. But then at the same time, I was like, this is my family. And why am I afraid of my own family? But I don't identify with black folks because I I feel my own sense of fear or like illegitimacy is how I feel even sitting at this table with you, because I feel like you three are legitimate black people because they were raised by black people. It's like it's embarrassing to say that, but that's how. The thing that's troubling
me just a little bit. I want you to clarify it, if you can, is your use of the term fear, the fear of black people. Where where is that coming from that you choose that term fear. I think about all of our implicit biases that we hold, and I can feel in my body how I change, how I'm not as comfortable. Yeah, when I with all black folks,
I don't fit in right. What are you doing now to try to assimilate into the black community or do you even feel the need to do that or do I feel like I have the right to do that? And I don't think I don't think I feel the right. I haven't thought about it just like that. But I have embraced my place in the white world, you know, like I've chosen to live in a predominantly white neighborhood, and I'm just trying to be okay with that right now.
I'm trying to be like, you know, I grew up in white spaces, so it makes sense that I might feel safe here, I would imagine, I mean even for coming from Baltimore, Maryland and then coming out to Los Angeles, you know, I mean, it's just like the streets of Baltimore were familiar to me, and then rolling in the streets of Calabasas was just right. It takes a minute, you know, people like, you know, you're stepping up. It's like, yeah, I'm stepping up, but this is like, this is right,
this is not my thing. And people think that's very similar to adoption, where it's like, oh, you've gotten a better life, Like looking at my birth mother and she doesn't have a lot of materialistic stuff, but I still long to be close to her with her, And that's one thing that adoptees don't feel safe to say I wish I had that, because the rest of the world's like, wait, what, you have great parents, We're able to afford all these extracurriculars for you and all this and you probably wouldn't
have had that there. When I listen to you, it sounds like there's a lot of internal conflict all over the place. Yeah, I struggle because I'm certainly grateful for the life I've been afforded and all the opportunities that I've had. But at the same time, it's hard to walk around every day and have people see a black woman, but for me not to even feel like a black woman, and that conflict that happens every single day is is
it's a huge wait. But what I also know is that I was given what I feel like it was white privileged by osmosis. A lot of people like myself. Once we leave the house and we no longer have white privileged by osmosis, it's like an awakening. So I chose to go to a predominantly white college because that's what just made sense for me. So I was comfortable. How were you accepted in that environment and did you
feel racism? Then when I went to college, I did feel a lot of racism, but it was coated in this this way that where I was put up on a pedestal. Those it's tokenism being in all white school, you know, always being chosen to be on like the college pamphlets and things like that. I was like, oh, god, do you think I'm wonderful? Really like they need that token and I don't know if they embraced me. They're they're fetishizing me, and I'm like interesting to everybody. Everyone
is like, yeah, your lips are so big. Here people reach out and can't resists touching my hair. Oh my god. I didn't think of it as racism at the time. I just thought it was maybe flattering, And then I started to realize what was happening. Token racism is like, that's something we don't talk about a lot, and we experience a lot in our industry. Not having other people to bounce these stories off of is what was really tough. So that's when I really started thinking about my blackness.
You are now helping transracial adoptions by talking to families that that adopt black children, And how do you do that? Is it a coaching? Is it mentoring? It's a lot of education, and it's a lot of talking about feelings. Sadly, adoptive parents have really like they've commandeered the whole conversation and so unfortunately we rarely hear from adopted people themselves, because as we often think about adoption as babies and I'm an adult, you know, but reality is that we
grow up and we are still adopted. Rarely do we hear from birth parents. Instead, they're just kind of this amorphous, villainized people that are like they're always in the shadows, forgotten about. They're scary, you know. So a lot of my work is helping adoptive families to humanize their children's birth parents. I'm hoping that I lived to see the day to where people say when I say I'm adopted, they say, gosh, did someone try to keep you with your family first? Instead of what we hear is your
parents must be so great. I never never thought about it from that perspective. My birth mom, she gave birth to me, and then she walked out the door and was homeless again. She said, everybody cares about you, getting you somewhere, but nobody cared about me. And I'm like, yeah, what's up with them? We still see that like that, that discarding for the life of the woman who is
having this child. I need to just say this though, this discomfort that you have with your own blackness, but yet you're counseling others on how to incorporate brown children into their families. I feel in a bind because I've grown up in whiteness and I have fostered, and my husband and I want to foster again, and it makes sense to me to foster a white child because that's what I'm familiar with. But then I'm like, well, that is quite a conflict, like a real freaking con That
is right for psychological archaeos. But if you're trying to counsel other people on how to do it, counsel yourself, what are you saying, how would I do that? Like counsel yourself and how to raise child? Yes, how am I supposed to raise a black child if I don't know a black culture. What you're telling other people to do is to move into a black expose the child to black culture. You can do the same thing. What
a tall order. It's a tall order, but because an order for a white person to do it for a black person, so as a black person to do it for a black child, it certainly is to me would be a bit easier because you have some idea of what it's like being black in the world. Do that could be a real healing process for yourself, for you, right, But if that's not my goal, you know. But yeah, I'm just saying I just have I've learned how to flourish in a white world, and so you have no desire.
But and we as black people, we can't keep asking white people to do things for us that we're not willing to do for ourselves. White people in their comfort zones too. That's what we do to white privilege and all of that is trying to pull white people out of their comfort zone to go, Hey, just step in to our work, in our in our world a little bit and understand our experience. Yes, you feel me. Sometimes our biggest treasures and and our biggest lessons are in
the zones of discomfort. You're putting up an excuse the reason why you can't do it. Yeah, So we want to remove that, and we want you to just sit with that for a minute, just sit with the idea for a minute. Yeah. Well, Angela's adopted parents to Theresa and David, have agreed to join us at the table
for their first interview together. So first of all, I just like to say, you guys have raised a phenomenal young woman quite dynamic as she was growing up, Did you guys realize any struggles that she was having or you know, first was the hair because we didn't know how to do that. Her friends were always touching her hair. I just thought of curiosity. They've never seen hair like this, right, right, Like the translational adoptee has to become a teaching tool exactly,
But think of that. That could be a positive experience, broadening other people's horizons and understanding. Yeah, in a white, predominantly white town. Nonetheless, it can be a step towards raising awareness. That could be a step towards raising awareness, but it also can be burdened on the child. Yeah, growing up my sister, I loved how her hair was sleek and down and would like flow in the wind. I loved her blue eyes. I like my dad's blew eyes.
I just I just didn't. It comes back to representation, like I don't see I don't see that. I see this and it's it's beautiful and I love them. I want to be like that. Yeah. I remember I went through a little face when I was younger where I hated my hair and I would cry and I would just be like I want I want my hair to just like you were saying, my hair to fall. I wanted to and all. And then I remember you showed me rough and stuff and I watched that video when
I was like stuff like that. That's when my whole, my whole life changed with my hair. Lady, you were like, here, none of this, but they're they're in lies again. My my, my concern and the challenge of not being raised, you know, around your own not even around you, even if you're not in you know, but not even around nowhere around owned your own culture, right, it becomes problematic with your own self esteem, self worth. Absolutely. What made you decide
to adopt children of color? I'm not sure that was conscious decision. Wow, Okay. We asked ourselves, asked each other, what are we reopen to? What can we handle and contribute to? And we found Angela in a book the State of Tennessee. And what we saw was a child who also had spastic quadriplegia hearing loss, and that we could we could we could help she being part of our family. So you didn't really even consider the fact that she was black. It wasn't something that even really
just about. I saw a child in need, yeah, obviously her picture was right, but you didn't consider that there might be any challenges or any differences and how she would be raised based on her race. If we did at that time, they would have been secondary to what are the needs. Well, Angela's birth mother, Deborah's joining us as well. Angela has not seen her in nearly four years, so this is pretty awesome. Oh she is well. Hello, Mr Deborah. Welcome to the table, Mr Debora. Hi, thank
you for having me, well for coming. This is my family, my family. Yes, Angela, how are you daughter? How are you can sit over there beside Angela? Yes, So eight years ago Angela began the emotional journey to find her birth mother, Deborah, and she documented the whole process then waiting. Uh, god, she's so pretty and she's so tall, and oh it's a nervous way. I think I would have been a different person if I would have grown up with the sister.
I have waited for twenty five years to thank Debra. Thank you for sharing Antea. So I right away, of course I wanted to thank her, and so we started walking together and I was thanking her, but at the same time she was thanking me. And I never thought about that. She did her just a really hard thing. She did something that I'm not sure I could do, and I did something that she wasn't able to do. Wow, it's beautiful. How are you feeling hurt? Yeah? I will
forever hurt the more I see her. The hard ideas. Now, if I could go back and don't do my life, No way that I will give away a child right at that time, not having a home, not having a job. Why to drag a child around right because you can't take care of it. So you got to make her strong with choice. So I went to a higher power and I said, help me please. When I put Angela up for adoption, that ended all my rights to know anything. I had no idea about where Angela was. I had
no idea about transracial adoption. I was brought up into that age. Why you didn't talk to white people, they met talk to you. I was astonished. So, Teresa, where you hesitant about Angela finding when I was younger? Yes? Yeah, because I had this unreasonable fear that she might kind of come and she'd be her mom. But I couldn't. I don't know why, because you would be replaced, I would be replaced yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, but Debora taught me that she's her mother different, I'm the
vessel that God used to put her here. Yeah. But there's her parents right there. Yeah, And I am just so proud of the young lady she is, what they've taught her, how smart is. It's an overwhelming moment sitting in between parents. Wow, Like everyone's so beautiful here, but my eyes just want to like stare at Debora and just because I'm still just trying to figure her out,
right and I still can't. We all know that you've done the best that you can and that we truly want you to feel like you're part of our family. That you not being able to parent me doesn't mean that you give up your rights to know who I am, know how I'm doing. Thank you. I just need to thank everyone at this table for allowing me to be here.
Absolutely well. I think it's just beautiful that we could all sit here together for many different reasons and talk about this specifically specific and the fact that these beautiful people adopted and raised this beautiful woman and we're open enough to come and speak to us about it and crossing those racial barriers and even though this is a learning process. But love is love, right, Love is love and this just shows you right here. This has been
one of my favorite episodes. Yeah hey, r T T family. Join our Red Table Talk group on Facebook to become part of the conversation and be sure to follow the show page to catch up on all our episodes. This is our new family, family, Thank you. There's so much going on behind the scenes. It's a journey. Are you ready to go? Yeah, I'm broken, broken an give me some lovening. To join the Red Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at facebook
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