Paris Jackson x Willow Smith One-on-One

the camera, but you got this. It'll be good. Oh she's coming down, coming down, bandit are You're gonna come and greet Paris with us? Thank you so much? Great, thank you. So I haven't seen you in like ten years, ten years? Yeah, yeah, Si. I was like, yeah, it's been that was on the Hawthorne sete. Grandmother brought her through the abandon was like, I want to meet ten years ten years? Whoa shall we go inside? Let's do it all right, you guys have a good one. Nice

to see you. Come on, man, come with me, Come on. I met Paris Jackson when I was ten years old. Her grandmother, Catherine brought Paris and her brother's prince and blanket to meet Jaden and me. On the set of my mom's TV show Hawthorne. In the decade that followed, Paris and I built a strong bond growing up with parents in the spotlight. We have a lot in common, the only girl in a family of boys, a passion for music, careers and modeling, shared spirituality, struggles with body image,

mental health, sexuality. Since losing her legendary father, the King of Pop, Michael Jackson, when she was just eleven years old, Paris has been to hell and back. Now she's joining me. From my very first conversation on the red couch, this is my first time doing this one on one. Sweet Yeah, when you were like, yeah, it's casual, Yeah, casual, But I don't know how to do this. You got to you gotta walk me through that. I got you. I

got you. You're right here. I got you. I've always just described you as being such a beautiful soul, and even since the first time that we met, since that moment, I just felt such a purity and a beauty within you, and just seeing how you have really blossomed that means a lot to me. First of all, I feel the same way about you. Um, even when we don't talk for a little while, even if it's just through texting or whatever, it's always nice to know that like you

and I are always on the same vibe. There were a lot of dark times that we can get into whatever. Whatever. Yeah, how was your social anxiety been after this pandemic? Because I know for me, my nervous system has been on an all time clause out. It's always been pretty gnarly my social anxiety. I don't know if you get this too.

I experienced audio hallucinations sometimes with camera clicks and severe paranoia and have been going to therapy for a lot of things, but that included and I've started you hear, I'll hear like a trash bag rustling, and I like flinch and panic. Is that from the paparazzi? Yeah? I think it's just like just standard PTSD. Since the day she was born, Paris has been hunted by paparazzi. As a little girl, she remembers being stepped on as they

chased down her father. Not long ago, Paris was harassed and traumatized while simply walking through the airport. So you think somebody murdered your father for like blinding me? I'm really sorry, up, Paris, What are your thought stopped. That's abusive. I have like nightmares, but it's primarily like if I'm out in public during the day. I don't really go out during the day. I do catch it affecting my personal relationships, especially romantic relationships, and PTSD can affect pretty

much every aspect of your life. I've just like started the healing process. I don't know if you know e m d R. I love. Md R is very intense that it puts you in a very fragile and vulnerable state, but it is a very effective kind of therapy. I definitely feel like in a lot of my personal relationships, like mostly friendships that I'm very paranoid about, like information right, if everyone that walks into my health signs and a

vio like, it's gnarly. It's gnarly, like even being like, oh, like delete that text because I don't want people to like, oh yeah. It does a lot to your nervous system because you're constantly in fight or flight, flight freeze collapse. You're constantly like walking on eggshells. Can suddenly looking over your shoulder, like you have to sit up straight and act right because if you don't, it not only reflects

on your reputation, your family's reputation. Like it's very like be careful, sit, smile, like, do the right thing, presentable. It does some serious shock, you know. I feel like there's got to be some kind of permanent damage. Just why I love camping so much, because we're in the middle of nowhere. We need to do it again. I think they opened up that spot that we want to we have to go back we have. Do you feel like there's anyone in your life right now that you

can trust completely? Have a couple of people, which is priceless and I hold onto that and I don't take care for granted. Suicide rates have been higher than they have ever been since and I know that we both have been there. I was talking to my friend about this, uh the other night. A lot of people do feel regret when they try and attempt suicide, um, like a last minute regret. There have been times where I did and times when I didn't, where I was upset that

it didn't work. But I can't say, like several years later that like I'm really grateful that it didn't. Things have gotten better. Yeah, what what do you think started that for you? Like that emotional spiral for you. Um Like, what caused me to get to that dark place? I think it's everything, man. I think a lot of it was just not knowing who I was, being a young girl going through puberty, and probably a lot of just

my situation and a lot of pressure. It was really hard and like people would tell me to kime myself every day, and I was depressed for years. Paris has been the target of vicious cyber bullying, just really really tired. At one point it got so bad she posted this heartbreaking video. I've tried sticking up for myself. I've tried the whole blocking mater's thing, not reading the comments, and I don't get what I'm such an easy target. When I was fourteen, I got so much hatred that, um

I tried to kill myself. But I'm just tired of it. I'm just really really tired. Mm hmm. How did you start to bring yourself back to a better mental space? Initially? I think it was it's kind of morbid, the radical acceptance that it just wasn't meant to be, Just like, Okay, I've tried and try and try, and it's really not working. Maybe it's just not my time, and that sucks, and for a while it was like I'll just weed it

out kind of thing, which is so dark. But I've heard these gnarly stories of people that have like tried to hung themselves and they ended up paralyzed, but they still lived. And knowing my luck as like as many times as I tried, like I'd probably end up in that kind of a situation. So it's just a radical acceptance of one, it's my time, It'll be my time, and I'll wait it out till then. And during that waiting time, I've just found more and more joys in life and more ways to cope and more ways to

like really live instead of just exist. Well, I've told a few friends about this experience that I had last autumn. It was the night of the Harvest moon, dude, and I experienced self love for the first time in my entire life. That I was having a really rough night because some old memories came up, I was like, okay, like I'm gonna like sit and be with myself and like do a little prayer, and then I just like felt the need to get up and go into the

mirror and start doing these affirmations. And once I finished, I like I saw myself, which is wild, and recognized myself for the first time in like ten years, and I was like, what's what paled? Friend? But like it was this really corny moment between me myself, like in the mirror, and it was just like, I don't have words to describe. It is so intense. It just a lot of gratitude. It's like a really long time to get to that point, so now you're able to see

how beautiful you are. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes it's nice. Affirmations helped a lot. I always try and recommend them to friends, even though it's super uncomfortable and awkward at first. I don't know why it's so awkward and embarrassing to be by yourself in the mirror and be like you're worthy. It's like it feels uncomfortable at first when you first start getting into the hang of it. It just makes me so happy to feel like you see that. I

appreciate that. Thank you. There are so many people who have suffered from losing loved ones, specifically during the COVID pandemic. How did you find the strength to keep going after losing your dad? I don't know. It kind of just happened I was so young that I wasn't like a conscious of I'm going to keep going, and like, you know, yeah, I was just going through the motions and like didn't really understand what was happening. And so I just went

with what I was told to do. And Okay, I'm living here now, and okay, I'm going to school now, and I'm not homeschooled anymore, and I'll just do what I'm told because I didn't really have much guidance. After her dad died, Paris and her brothers moved in with her grandmother, Catherine, the Jackson family matriar was named permanent guardian. The children went from home schooling and traveling the world with their father to attending traditional school and living under

Catherine's strict Jehovah's witness beliefs. WHOA are you still close to your dad's side of the family. I'm still very close with my brothers, and I see my family during family reunions, and I tell him all the time, if you want to call me, call me. I got love and respect for all of you guys. Try and see my cousins. I just saw my cousins for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Even though we don't call it that because a lot of time with witness, So we're just like February Union

kind of thing. So your mom came into your life at age fifteen in Michael Jackson married Debbie Rowe, and assistant at a dermatology office. They had two children, Prince and Paris. When they divorced, Debbie gave up custody and the kids lived with their father full time. Paris grew up without her mother. Meeting your mom, how has that journey been for you? It's cool, I mean like getting to know her, saying how similar we are getting into what kind of music she likes, and she really likes

country and folk by Center. Some of the stuff that I'm working on I have like banjo's in them. That was like a few months ago, My God, for her birthday. That is so sweet. We look a lot alike. All send you a picture that she sent me when she was my age in the seventies. Look exactly alike. It's just cool having her as a friend. It's very chill, which I which I love. That's a perfect word to describe it. How did you get your name? Paris seven told that Cathy Hilton and my dad were really close

growing up. They're like best friends, and I think they made some kind of a pact that they were going to name their first daughter Paris. I think that's how me and uh Pete we call her pe one I p two Paris Hilton got her name as well. Then there's also like another story which just like my dad really really loved that city so much. When I got to truly explore Paris, I really connected to him. I was like, Okay, I get it, because I just didn't understand my name for a long time and I went

there and I'm like, I get it. This is awesome, that's so beautiful. I want to ask you, I know it took a lot of courage to like step out and do this debut album. I don't know what gave me the courage to do it. It's just like I just couldn't ah suppress it anymore. What do you think was the starting point of you feeling like, Okay, like I really I feel like I want to make this project.

I really want to put my all into this heartbreak it was the main thing, and it was the deepest heartbreak I'd ever experienced, but also one of the most powerful rebirths that I've ever had, and finding my voice and finding my sound and embracing being a musician. I was scared to do that for a long time. You know, It's been like a lobby of mine for a long time. Finally, I'm just like, no, Like, this is who I am. I'm a musician. What about that heartbreak put you on

that specific path? Because I know that, specifically for me and so many people, experiencing heartbreak can either close you off and you could be like, oh no, I'm just gonna be in my cocoon. It did do that. It was the deepest I've ever loved someone. It was the most intense that I've felt so far, and the most intense betrayal that I had felt so far and experienced. And it's definitely closed me off to that. Like, I'm very careful with who I spend time with now, and

I'm very guarded and just trying to protect myself. But music has always been there for me. You had said that music saved your life. Oh for sure. It makes me feel less alone and it makes me feel heard. There were some dark, dark times where I did feel like music was all I had. I just feel like you've done such a beautiful and graceful job of doing your own thing. Because kids like us do we feel like we have to live up to this certain standard.

I feel like it's still probably there somewhere in the back of my head. But the louder thing that competes is that I feel like my dad would be proud. I hear that there's a song that you have written. Yes, Recles, I wrote last week. It's actually one of my only happy songs. I heard you brought your guitar, such a beautiful guitar. Thank you. She's my travel friend. Nervous, yeah, a little bit. I love you. Don't be nervous. Can I do anything? Why to Dawn? And does left same

PECULI quite obscene. I'll take oh Angel insteadch them in between. There's says the sun can't be Maybe one day they'll all love mdal will sweet girl at their feet and we'll wrap decate the book about but an adventitious love affair. Not really something to predict, oh likely flawed contrasted pair. Unconventionally perfect you are. I'll carve your skin with flice back heart and match your freckles to the stars. Unconventionally perfect you are to me. That was beautiful. Thank you.

I thought it was adorable and adventitious love affair, not really something to predict. That was beautiful. I love those lyrics thank you, match your freckles to the stars, like come on now, come on now, lyric thank you, and it kind of sounds like you're talking about a lady.

It's got a few inspirations off of that note. We both like girls and boys, And I just want to ask, how was that journey for you alongside being in the limelight and being famous and having all of these people looking at you and figuring out your sexuality, like figuring out what you were attracted to, what kind of relationship you wanted to have. I mean, I'm still kind of figuring it out. Um. My family is very religious, and a lot of homosexuality is just very taboous, so they

don't like to talk about it. It's not really accepted. But um, I've gotten to a point where I respect them and I have loved for them. I respect their beliefs, I respect their religion. Do you think that that kind of affected you in your growing stages, that feeling that maybe that wouldn't be accepted. Yeah, But right now I'm at a point where it's like to expect them to put aside their culture and their religion, Like expectations to me lead to resentments, and like what people think about

me is in my business, you know. Yeah, but there were moments where it was really hard and like you feel alone, you feel kind of excluded. Were there are people in your family who supported you. My brothers, Yeah, they didn't understand it at first. My older brother who's about fourteen months old, you met Prince. Yeah, we both have two older brothers, which is crazy. Blanket is younger than you. He's younger. I have two older brothers and then B g B now he's uh four years younger.

But they they've always been super supportive. Prince joined a G S A club in high school. All learned about it because he wanted to support me, Like not a lot of people can say they have siblings sets support them like that. Yeah. I find that growing up with my brothers and and spending so much time with them and being the only girl, I got to see the differences and how society and even my parents would treat us. They would get certain freedoms or certain things or whatever

wasn't fair. Yeah, it just wasn't fair. Did you feel any of that totally? I mean, yeah, my brother's got to go have sleepovers whenever they wanted, and they can go do whatever. They can go to parties and stuff to way more strict for me. And but also at the same time, like I was daddy's little girl, was the only girl, so I was definitely excluded at some points because I wasn't cool enough to kick it with the boys, and then got some special treatment for being

a girl. So it's like you and some of you lose something. It's true. What was it like for you discovering your sexuality moving through that? Who It was very weird for me because people were telling me online before I even knew like what that was, that that I was a lesbian, that I dressed like a lesbian, that I talked like a lesbian, and all of these different things, and so just kind of seeing that at a very

young age was like is this a bad thing? Like I kind of didn't know how to react to it because I was like, is there something wrong with me? Like why why is everyone saying I thought a really long time that the only way to express my sexuality as being a female, that like other females was to be like super masculine. I had a short hair, and I had all the things. I just didn't know any better. I was just like learning as I was going along, and was very sheltered from all of that at a

young age. So I went all in immediately. And now I'm just I can do whatever, and do whatever feels good, and dress however and act however, and it doesn't change how I feel on the inside. It's just as long as me I can be feminine, I can be to him what I can do whatever, as long as it feels like me. Yeah, as long as it's authentic. I know, for myself, I don't really see myself getting married or having children or doing that traditional thing. But how do

you feel about that? Wow? To quote Journey loving the music, man, I know it's what it's supposed to be. I don't know right now. I'm married to music and I have been whatever happen, whatever happened. I'm like, I'm not against married if I'm happy and I love someone, sure, But right now my main thing is my spirituality, my music, and like doing what is right for me right now, I'm too young to think about that about kids. Yeah, no kids. Maybe, yeah, I can tell you. I'm many kids.

You're gonna have to give me your palm. Are you right handed? Yeah? I'm right handed. Two that's what it says. Maybe for no, definitely at least two. Oh god on kids, man, I think global warming needs to get figured out first, fair enough. I think we need to figure that. You could build an army. We couldn't build an army of like woke as kids to be the free thinkers and warriors of the next world. I'd be down for that. Yeah. The Red Table producers thought this would be fun, a

little trip down memory lane. They a few photos of each of us from various stages in our lives. Let's go through that. Oh man, okay, wow, this was the mohawk days. I think I had some cuts on my wrist during that time. Actually I did the same thing to cover it up and be like, yeah that's fashion like and like I'm not bleeding into my wristband. I did the same thing. That was tough. Times these are bad. So no, I love your hair. I love your hair. I feel like the amount of die and perms from

between both of us. It took so long to grow my hair, like keep it healthy exactly exactly move on from that and on this stage. You know, this stage was too much. I was like, eleven was so cool when you were eleven, But that was the one I looked like a nerd dude. It was had like a Harry Potter cloak that I wore to the airports, like

I was so weird at leven. No, my mom did not want me wearing these shirts because you remember when Odd Future was like new and upcoming and they had six six six and the upside down crosses and everything on their stuff. So she was like, you can't wear this, and I was like yes, Like yeah, mom, nice good old rebellion. Yes for years ago. What was your emotional state in this time? I was not very happy and

this was taken as you can see. I was going through it and finding them just not the best coping skills. And this was when I was very disconnected from my spirituality and my music. I feel like we connected during this time. We didn't. Yeah, we did connect during this time. I feel like we've come into each other's lives at such formative times. I love this. This whole outfit was not the vibe. No, I didn't feel very cute, and

I just wanted to do something different. That's why I got this, this weave, and I was like, I don't think it worked out great. I don't get a lot though, thank you. Oh my god, look just oh my goodness. I just like Goddess much. Goddess addressed address was like fifty pounds. I feel like you were doing good, very it was very fright. Yeah, I was chilling, then I was I was chilling. That was right after I adopted my dog and and rescued her. How many dogs do

you have? Now? Have one? And then I rescued a cat last year. I changed his name from Fredo to Frodo. He's an old Maiji thing and I love him. So they both cuddled with me at night. They get along. Grade we need to get our animals together because I have three cats and one dog. I don't know how Frodo does with other cats. But chill with this is giving the stem vibes. I love that always. I was in a good place emotionally here, but I was nervous out of my mind because I had never been half

naked on a spinning table before. In front of that would be pretty. It was. I was like Yo, what am I doing? This is crazy? You look amazing here. That was probably, I want to say, three years ago. I probably wasn't in the best day totally, but I've been doing the modeling thing for a while, so I was just like, I think I was just going through the motions here. Yes, this is with David la Chapelle.

That was a really cool. Shoot, my goodness, you look like a Pleadian, like you look like a light being told that I am Palladian, which I think is a total compliment. You strike me as an Atlantean. Really, I've been told that, Yes, I definitely feel like an Atlantean. And Woodsy Ferry the Artiste fam wanted to get in on our combo. We've got a few viewers standing by with questions. All right, run it first. Up we have

Sonya from California. What's going on? Sonja? All Right? So I lost my dad when I was three years old, and the only memory I have of him is being at his funeral, which is really odd. And I have my mom, who I lost at twelve, and I fell out. All my memories I have with her or just dreamed. They didn't even feel real. When I talked to people about her. So I want to know for you, what was something you did or that you do to keep

your memories alive with your father. Um, I take the positive things that I learned from him, the good morals that I learned, and try and use them every day. Humility, compassion, tolerance, just being kind to other people, even if it's someone that did you wrong, to pray for them and and be kind to them, to be kind to yourself. That's just a very standard way that I keep that memory alive and do what I can to make him proud. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you so much. Okay, So, hey,

we have Mike in Virginia. How are y'all doing today? Good? Before I start, I just want to say that the mugs are given today, y'all are beautiful. I'm living it. I'm living it perfect. Okay. So I'm in a bit of a situation. So I have been dating these two guys and unfortunately one has found out about the other and now he's making me choose between the two. So I need a little bit advice from y'all, Like, I don't know whether I should choose one or don't choose one at all? Can I can? I hop in on

this one. Go for it. Maybe you all go out and have coffee together and maybe you know, maybe you all can be together. Maybe they maybe they wouldn't be upset about that, or maybe they would. I think transparency is key, being honest is key, and be as loving as you can. What do you think, Paris? This is a tricky one because my my solution for this is

not the easiest. I would try and take the approach of doing the least harmful thing, and if that means not having either of them, then take the route of least harm and open communications, see what, see what they want, even if it means you don't get what you want and not putting your needs in there in the mix, and make amends for whatever wrong that was done. Okay, okay, I can. I can go with both of those. I can go with both of those. That sound doable. Does

that sound I can say? I can? I can pull and pull from both there. I want to make something work. This gonna do the least amount of harm. Goods of luck. We're rooting for you. Up next, we have Mina from New Jersey. I willow hype Paris. My question actually has to do with depression ever since the pandemic hit, like you know, it would kind of come in waves, but now it just seems like it's a sad day every single day. How do you turn that pain off and

just find that happiness within yourself again? And what drives you to get out of bed? It's a lot easier than done. So I'm gonna have to ask you to bear with me. I'm sure you've heard me mention the word radical acceptance, which is a practice I try and work on a lot um, the idea that everything happens for a reason. And sometimes when I pray, I just ask for the unnecessary pain to be taken away from me.

But the pain has made me grow, and then I grow and I work hard and I get through it, and then I've got a little like lollipop at the end of the you know, light at the end of the tunnel. Some of the gnarliest things that have happened to me have shaped me. But what gets me out of bed in the morning is wanting to help other people and music. And some days I feel like your best is going to be better than others. But if you're trying your hardest and doing your best, like I think,

I think you'll be okay. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. Not about a tear up to menest. I want to add my little yeah, my little nugget in there of just being patient with yourself and knowing and knowing that so much has happened in the world recently, and change is extremely difficult for our nervous systems and our brains to contend with. So I would just say love on your heart, and just hug on yourself and tell yourself that everything does pass. And just like Paris said, when

you're genuinely authentically doing your best the universal lines. And I really hope that our that our advice helped helped you a little bit. Absolutely, I really felt it. Thank you, Thank you so much. Next, we have Willow from North Carolina. He right, Willow, what do you have for us today? Willow? So, I come from a super redneck, super religious family on my dad's side, I'm bisexual. I've been in mixed race relationships. I honestly I don't even talk to them because of

how close minded they are. Right now, So, how did you talk to your family about your life choices? Confidently, some of my family I talked to about it openly. Some of my family. I don't. I've reached a point right now where like I have love and respect for my family that believes their culture, their religion, and if I'm to expect them to set that aside just so I feel accepted, expectations lead to resentments for me. So I'll try and take the approach that what other people

think of me is none of my business. And as long as I'm living a life of love and being of service and honesty, then and I'm not hurting other people, I think I think I'll be all right. You know that's beautiful. When I'm really trying to hit the depths with someone, like when I'm trying to like get them to really see my perspective, I always try to be as vulnerable as possible and even preface it with like, I'm really afraid of how you're going to react right now.

Like I know you're my family, and I know that you love me, and I love you, but I just I just need you to like be here for me right now for just while I'm saying this to you, and we can, you know, have our moment apart afterwards, and then we can come back together and you can tell me how you feel and we can talk about that, but I just really need this time to like pour out my heart to you and be honest to you right now. Okay. I like that. I like that a lot. Actually,

I think I'm going to try that one. Thank you, Willow, Willow to willow ha ha. Okay. I want to play a little game. You say the first thoughts that come to your mind when I when I say a word okay, future, right mm hmm, love, god, m life, death, m hmmm, uh, luxury, temporary, faith, everything, hey necessary, I said, Oh no, I'm feeling these right now. Failure, lesson mm hmmm, food, mm hmmm, addictive as sex, sometimes sacred, sometimes not. Well damn, yeah, there it is. Do I

get to do that with you? Of course? Of course? Um beauty, subjective media, deceitful, true love, absolute truth sex. I'm just thinking of the ocean, like just ocean, cool girl, crush cut. I like this game. It's a great I feel like I'm learning a lot about myself. I feel like that's a cool game to play on like a first date, like to kind of just lay the land

of their subconscious. I also want to talk about all your dad's I've always just thought you honestly inspired me because I was so scared that we both have we both have Metatron's que Yes, look at us with our sacred geometry. Dr Woo did this one. He did this one. Then I'm going to add on to it. I'm gonna do the Viking compass will here. This is fire. I love the color. I want to get colors online. Do it one day. You need to tap me with your with your kid. And I also am going to get

a stick and polke kit but I have machine. Oh my goodness. Next thing, you know, they're gonna be like Paris Jackson is now Willows a soul tattoo. I'm like pretty decent too. I'm not I'm not too bad. These are the ones that you did. Yeah, oh my god. This one so I'm very proud of the other's a little jankie. I'm super proud of that one. You have to tap me. You have to tap me one day whenever we're wrapping up. But I heard you like to take stuff, little keepsakes from the sets that you visited.

I still I still props. Yes, give us some examples. Take a bombing fluid off of the last set with permission I asked the director and I asked the props guy. When I was on the set of the music video in Ohio, we found bones out in the woods, so I took there was a rib and then there was a bone that was in my bedroom at home. Yeah. I like taking little keepsakes and little I'm not sure if what we're going to give you is going to be as cool as a bone, but which I'm a

hoard or anything we do. Yeah, I got to my name on Yeah, that's amazing that you have your own personal red table talk customized thank you, T thank you, m H just thank you, like you're amazing, Like I just love you. I feel like it's been it's been a it's been a drastic evolution from when we first met and then just the ups and downs. I feel like you've really you've just done a beautiful job with yourself. I think I think that's really inspiring than you likewise

until next time when you're tatting up my legs. Yes, or if you already back up vocals on a song, yes please? Oh, speaking of that, we should do that. What are you doing after this? Nothing? Should we just go to the studio? Awesome? I'm so excited for I want to throw in some seven Chords somewhere in se Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Good, Yeah, that's nice. I love that. Slash to join the Red table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com

slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.