Mom Shaming: The New Epidemic

they don't even know. I've definitely been shamed a lot. Mommy shamers are just me and girls who grew up to be mothers. Every one of us has mom shamed. Let's own it. More Black mothers are shamed than any other group I've heard. Are all those kids yours? That's an insult. Because of the pandemic, two thirds of mommy's are getting mommy shames. What kind of person are you? That's child abuse? What it hurts, man, It really really hurts. There's this headline from the New York Times about mom

shaming just running wild during the pandemic. Over the years, I have had my fair share of mom shaming. Okay with Willow, Like I think the first time I got hardcore criticism when you first cut your hair, I mean there was a firestorm. It honestly makes me like go like this because it's fun. It was a constant, constant,

and even how you decided to educate us. You had two parents that worked, So I get shamed for homeschooling you so that you can be with us, and I would have gotten shame for leaving you here and you not being with not being with you. Yeah, so you can win. I think people shaming me from my mother effected you far more than because you were dressed there

for a moment. But I also felt like these people are talking about your children that they don't even know, making you guys out to be these brats, Hollywood brats. You were never that. Ever. The thing that I had to consider is that they weren't raised typically, and I think especially for our community, it was something new. Yeah,

definitely death, specifically with the African American community. I kind of felt like me and Jaden were like shunned a little bit, like no, like they were not going to take We're not going to take pride in them because they don't. They're too different, they're too even some of our family members, I would feel they thought you're too different. We do have a way within the community that we expect our kids to be raised, like how you behave

you know, how you carry yourself. But there are different ways that can be successful. It was difficult for me to even let go and give you, guys, I know, over your own children. Yeah, don't let them go off rails. Get these folks in order because of kids running around over there. They're going to bed whenever they feel like they're going to bed. No, no, no no. When I was I knew whenever Gammy was around, it ain't no joke. We ain't doing that. But I feel like it don't matter.

You're gonna do. You're gonna do what she says. Okay, you got some in a new school when you got the old school. Old school was solid. Totally. Yeah. Did people shame me through you one one hundred percent. Like I would be at places or at events and like people would say things and they would be like your mom like like exactly. It was always like, oh, like, it's not your fault. Your mother should have taught you better, Like it's not it's not your fault that you're crazy.

Your mother should have because that was your mother's crazy. Yeah, why is it always your mother? Your mother should have But at the same time, though, there's different ways that the shaming happens, because I feel like you experienced it more through the media and through like the world looking at you and saying we don't think this is right.

But some moms experience it like, you know, the p t A meetings and the dropping off their kids to school and the cupcakes weren't right, and you're not wearing makeup and why is your kid not wearing pjs on PJ Day? And right, I feel like that's more difficult. Yeah, well we have a really this is a woman that I really admire, and when she gave birth to her first baby eight months ago, the mom shameless came for her.

Supermodel Ashley Graham has been unconventional her whole life, from her first big break a controversial lingerie commercial it's something about having a waist and hips that scares these advertisers to become in the first Curby model to in the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue. She's been unconventional in her marriage, her baby shower, and in the birth of her son Isaac. Opting for a home delivery in water.

Ashley is a huge inspiration to millions, but being so outspoken sometimes has made her the target of mom shamers. Whether she's in a car pumping or in a store making emergency diaper change, thousands of hurtful mom shaming comments appear nearly every post she makes. Actually, what is up you guys? Thank you so much for having me. This is so exciting. You're glowing. I know you have felt

the wrath of the mommy shaming police. You know it's interesting because my whole career has been based around body shaming, because I am a curby girl who has come into a skinny world and said that my body and other bodies like myne you to be normalized. I knew that it was coming, and I was ready to combat it. But it never feels good to have someone tell you that you're not doing a good enough job, that you're

doing something wrong. I can sit here and tell you that, oh, I just brush it off, But I don't brush it off. I think if you allow the comments to get to you, they can. So this photo this is the first time I had taken Isaac out in public, and he was just under a month old and I wanted to go to my favorite brunch spot, and I thought, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I have to breastfeed. Well, I'm just going to whip out my boob and feed him. So then I thought, justin to my husband take a picture.

This is my first time breastfeeding him in public. This is something I always want to remember. I agonized over what I was going to say, and then I just finally just wrote something like two emojis like a milk and a cookie. Sure enough, I got mom shamed. I can only imagine Ashley. When I saw the picture. Inside my heart, I had to clap because I remember me myself when I would be out with Aiden and Willow breastfeeding. Remember I used to have like that little breast seed

cover and it would make it so difficult. They're in there, They're suffocated. I can't see you. I had so much anxiety about it because back when I had them, breastfeeding was like what, like, what are you doing? You know what's crazy? I feel like the reason why it's so jarring for people is because we're taught from such a young age that our bodies are meant to be sexualized. Where you bring up a great point, because my whole career is based off of being sexy, and my breasts

have been the forefront of many magazine covers. So then to flip to my baby is they're sucking on them. I think that people just had to like switch their minds. But they are multi purposeful like and I think there's so many new mommies out there who are agonizing over

what they should and shouldn't be doing. Jada, You've felt to immensely, So what are some of the tools that you've used in order to combat so much of that feeling of anxiousness and anxiety around mommy shaming For me looking at how my children were being affected, That's what counts. When people are like, oh my god, I can't believe you shaved Willow's head, if they could have seen this child's expression of freedom, looking at her hair falling to

the ground. So me, as a mom looking at that, experiencing that with her, there is nothing that anyone could say to me to tell me that it was wrong that cleared on person. Because I was there, I was looking at her, I saw her face. I knew the journey that she and I took together to get to that point, and so it didn't really matter when anybody said. And that was such a powerfulness, Ashley. Have you ever been shamed by anybody that's close to you? Oh, definitely.

I've definitely been shamed by close family members. In fact, it just happened right before Isaac turned three months old, and they said, I can't believe he's not sleep trained yet. What are you doing? Why are you ruining your life? It's just keep your comments to yourself. You know what. I never sleep trained. You certainly did not. I never sided I just because we were in so many different time zones all the time, you know, so if I

was up, they were. But I got the same thing people like girl, What I appreciate is to have a conversation like the one we're having today. I would rather talk about what I can do to be a better mom. I don't want somebody coming at me or telling me what I need to do. I didn't know that sleep training was a thing. How do you sleep? It is a thing. I loved it, I I you know, I loved having my kids up with me. Actually remember this till this day. These kids they loved a mommy, you know.

But I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we slept together all the time. When it comes to mom shaming, this mother of three gorgeous children has seen it all. Not only is Jessica Albat an actor, she's a business mogul who runs a wildly successful baby and beauty product company. Jesssa, hey, how old are your kids? Jessica, So, I have a nine year old and a twelve year old and he is My little one is too and he's not even trying to

potty train. He does not care about it. No, thank you, I said, honey, you know because I make diapers that are cute with the patterns. And he's like no, no, no, nothing. And I'm like, well, you know other little kids your age and he was like, no, no, thank you. He likes to walk around naked. Both our boys. We we had a We had a real time potty train in them. It was very challenging, and I do remember family members being like, listen, these three. He needs to be out

of diapers, you know, even and it didn't even know how. Yeah, I had to just take a weekend, had to just be like like every day. It's like you had a man doodoos by this time, have people been getting on your butt? Yes, yes, I think also because it's quarantine, so like, what a great time to potty train your kids? And I'm like, what a great time to add another freaking stress on me. Thank you, Jessica. Let's look at these photos that caused some of the mom shamers that

come out. Oh yeah. One woman commented, all, mg no that bottle you should be breastfeeding. What DNSc here me go, Ashley? You get shape from breastfeeding? Sha Wait no, now you have the other photo of me breastfeeding. They came for you didn't say, Oh wow, you're damned if you do. You're damned if you don't. Jessica, were you whipping it out in public? Also? Yeah, definitely out when we have to. I mean I fed him at Target. Also, I just needed to get out of the dang house. I was like,

especially by the third one. Right, So, what would be some of your wisdom to women who want to be part of the social media world. They love sharing their kids because on the on the one hand, you would think we'll just stop posting pictures, right, but it's like it's such a part of culture. Now. This is what I always have to say mommy shamers are just mean

girls who grew up to be mothers. True. I've had to do a lot of therapy, and certainly now that i'm I'm almost forty, I've come to this place where I realized that most people who have something to say, it's because they're so insecure, and it's more of like them being ashamed of themselves, them being overly critical, and for whatever reason, the natural reaction instant call other people apart for them to feel justified, for them to feel okay. You know, I know this other picture of you and

your family cause some heat. That's just absolutely ludicrous that we're living in a day and age where health is politicized. Like my, my mind is blown. The comment was, what kind of person are you doing such an unhealthy thing to your child? That's child abuse. That's well, there you go, you're an ass. Moving on, one of our RTT favorites, Dr Romney is here to break this all down for us. She also has experienced mom shaming herself, and she's going

to talk to us about why this occurs. This one's personal. I mean, having been there, it happens to my friends, to my patients. So many people I've known, and it's devastating. How have you personally been shamed? I watched my own mom, b Shane. I'm the child of immigrant parents. My mom would wear a star. You we already looked so foreign. So I watched that happen to my mom, so I was acutely aware of it. And my younger daughter, she's

a bit of a pistol. She's just fierce. And I will never forget the day because I was working full time when when my girls were young, and I remember going to the school and she had been acting up a little bit, and another mother at the school takes me aside and says, you know why she's such a handful because you neglect her and you're never around. She sees all the other mothers here serving lunch and you're never here. Nice of you to show up. I was almost but I was like, no, not in front of

the kids, but I was devastated. I went to the restroom. I was crying because she played on my own insecurity. I wasn't there all the time. I wasn't. But you have a career and you're a working woman and you provide. But it's still hard because Ashley Jessica, all of us you're being judged on your mom nows and the mom part feels primal, you know, like I can't get that one wrong. I could get professed so wrong, I could get psychologists wrong. I can't get mom wrong because it's primal.

I remember my daughter said to me, why are you the only mommy that can't be here for all the special events? And she was like four years old, and I same thing. I fell apart. It hurts, man, it really really hurts. It's so weird that we feel like we have to choose between our professional ambitions and our desire to have a personal life and to have a family. It's not fair. And I feel like super working mothers they may feel like they don't know their children that

well because they're not there. I agree, so they feel like they need some input, they need some invite and guidance. But don't you think nothing could be farther from the truth, right, I mean, you worked, I worked, Jessica works, Ashley's worked. I mean the fact is you know your child. I am a true believer in this mystical connection you've got with your child. I don't think being out of the house affects that boom. I just want everybody to know I got shamed for being a working mom and keeping

my kids with me. I did for homeschooling them so that they could actually travel with me. I had my mother come with me, and I got the business for school to the kids so that they could actually be with me. So you know, once again, you can't win. Every one of us has mom shamed. Let's I've done it, You've done all done. Okay, maybe I've judged someone who

doesn't work out of the house exactly. The fact is we've got to stop, and we've got to pay attention and look at every mother through a lens of compassion. Is there any such thing as like healthy criticism, you know, constructive criticism around mother You know what, I call it empathic feedback. If you see a mother struggling, go up to them. You know what, the first thing you say to them, is there anything I can do to help?

How can I help? You want to talk? And if you set a comfortable tone, people will talk and they might say, you know, we are struggling a little bit. And then you set the pace to actually allow someone to open up and not feel like they're going to be attacked. But I think mothers are terrified right now. They put even a comment on social media and say, can anyone help me out? I'm struggling with da dada boom. The people are going to get in there and say, well,

you're doing this wrong. But that's the insecurity and now we're in a pandemic. So the insecurity paired with the uncertainty, it is such a volatile combination because everyone's insecure now, and when people are insecured, they lash out. Never before can I say as a psychologist that I've seen that the entire population is insecure because everything so uncertain, and

moms are getting the worst of it. Yes, I do feel really isolated and things do feel magnified, and I just think that it's because everybody is that home on their phones, just feeling like everybody else needs some advice from them about how to be a better mother. And it's not just mom shaming moms. It's stranger shaming moms.

It's pediatricians shaming mom is, teachers, you name it. Even my damn ob he told me, he was like, you know, you really shouldn't be I'm gaining more than the twenty five pounds, you know, for your entire pregnancy, And I was like, I kind of gained that in my first trime master with all three. So that's life, that's me. That's the way my body carries these babies. Yeah, the shame just like continue, Ashley, you said you had a

question for the doctor. Oh I do. Okay, So this isn't really around mommy shaming, but I'm sure I'm going to get mom shamed for asking it. So now that I have Isaac sleep trained, I put him down at eight and I go to sleep. But usually in the hours between twelve thirty and about four o'clock in the morning, I have what my husband is calling these night terrors. And in my sleep, I am hun ting for my child,

and I'm like, where is Isaac? Where is he? And I'm looking under the bed, I'm flipping my husband upside down, I'm turning on the lights. That it's happening almost every single night. What is that? Oh? Actually, it's actually I'm gonna tell you, it's so beautiful to hear you say this, because it's your body doing exactly what your body is supposed to do. And so here you are in that first year, maybe in the first two years you have a baby, your cortisol levels are higher. For new moms.

It makes them more alert, especially in the middle of the night. So your cortisol is that the middle of the night, where is he? Where is it? Great? I'm going to go back to sleep. But new moms don't sleep through the night because that is a built in biological alertness. It's your body being absolutely beautiful. It's really nice to know that I'm not alone and I'm normal, because I really thought there was something chemically wrong with me.

Not in fact, there is something that's chemically changed in you, and it's chemically right. My kids are grown and I still have where all spaces. Alright, girl, alright, I wake up is like thirty seconds to one minute before my kids wake up from either a nightmare or they're going to the bathroom. And I tell Cash did you hear that? And every time he's like, there's nothing, there's it's in

your head. Now I spy on them. Now I have cameras in all their rooms, so I actually can really was that noise actually justify what the heck is going on? But I really thought I was losing it until I started surveilling them. Are you ever going to take the cameras out of their room. Honor was like, Mom, you know I'm twelve now, like, don't you think it's awkward? And I'm like, well, you shouldn't be doing anything. You

know in your bedroom. You have a whole closet to dress in, and you have your bathroom for your private time, and so what are you doing in your room? What you think You're gonna sneak somebody in? Somehow I'm still getting away with it, but I think this might be the last year, all right? Our t T family send in some questions. So many moms in our RTT family wanted to share their mom shaming situations and get some advice. This is joy live in Richmond, Virginia. My son loves

to wear his hair naturally in free form dreadlocks. My black friends, however, will mention things like, girl, what you're gonna get his hair done? It makes me feel like I'm literally not living up to the standards as a black mom. How do I let my friends know that telling me what to do with my son's hair is actually a form of mom shaming. This black hair situation is real. I mean, it's a problem. When we talk about Blue Ivy, Beyonce's child and how she's been shamed

for her natural hair. When we talk about gabs daughter who's been shamed for her natural hair, Willow, Yes, air is a button for us. Every single Black woman that I know has an a wound somewhere in their childhood about their hair and about what someone said about their hair. Absolutely, this reflects an insecurity that was foisted onto the Black community by an existing system of oppression. She has to sort of channel that inner leader and say, we have

got to as black mothers, stop destroying each other. And when you're talking about my son's hair, you're actually, this is a bigger problem with our community. Would you like to have that conversation with ladies? Yes? Yes, and we should talk about that. And that's what I love you.

It's like, and it's a worthy conversation had because if that is your group of friends, it's like, let's really get to the bottom of this why my son's hair triggers you, and let me explain to you why it's important for me to allow him to have the hair that he wants, and just to have a conversation with your group of friends, and I bet you it'll get smoothed outcause when we get to the real and you gotta really look exactly yourself and why that triggers you,

then you're gonna really think about if you need to be putting that on that young child. Yeah, and then they're gonna go on over there and have a seat. So that's question. Hello, ladies, I'm Christina from Tuskey, Alabama. I'm a past his wife and homeschooling mom of five awesome kids. I get mom shamed when I go out in public without my husband. I've heard all kinds of questions like do you all even use birth control? Or

are all those kids yours? So my question for you all today is what makes someone else bold enough to criticize your life choices as a parent. Yeah, I'm so dumb right now, me too, Like I feel like, mind your own few cubic feet of space. But you know, Gammy, there's a bigger conversation here. No one would have said this to a white woman now five child dren. That is such an inappropriate question. But all I want to

say to her is don't engage. You hold your head high like a queen, and you keep walking because they don't deserve your engagement because that's an insult. So insults really don't bear response. People see black mothers and they shame them more than any other group. I mean, by a landslide. That's where we often see some of the most poisonous mom shaming when it's black and brown moms, especially when you talk to the moms of black sons. Yeah, you really hit it. I got shamed a lot, you know,

for a willow. But Jaden was like, yes, that was hard. You think people shamed you more for Jaden than for me. I think as Jaden got older, you know, when he did the Louis Vatton Yeah, you know, and then he isn't what people consider your typical black man, that's right, which is like, what is that supposed to be supposed to be stagging to his knee? Even in the community, we creates their you'll type around. You know, it's something that we as a community really have to learn how

to let go, let go of. I know that people in you know, I felt like it's dangerous. It's like, no, you cannot afford to raise your children this way because it's dangerous. And if you know what it's like to be a black or brown person in this world, you are doing your kids a disservice. I understood where that fear came from. But I also understood from having been on the streets and having had been not your conventional black girl in the streets of Baltimore. I knew that

self confidence. That is what helped me. Did you see, We're back to the getting rid of the insecurity that it doesn't even matter black, brown, or white. It's about that. And it is harder for a black woman to hold that space of confidence and security than it is others. So that is a struggle that people are going to have even more, which is going to pack their parenting and make them more vulnerable to the mom shame. Absolutely. Yeah,

we've got Veronica from Indio, California. Hi Veronica, Hi thread table fam. Nice to see you all continuously being mom shane for being a career woman while my husband stays home and takes care of our four children. So I'm a college professor and this requires me to travel a lot, and I miss a lot of precious moments during that time. People mom shamy and tell me they can't travel because they have to put their children first. I also got

criticized for pursuing my doctorate degree. I was told I was too ambitious and that I should be focusing on my family. So my problem is my husband continues to be praised for being a stay at home dad, and I continue to be shamed for being the breadwinner. So what do I say to the shamers? First of all, I feel you're Veronica because I'm a college professor. To here's the thing, Veronica, they're threatened. It goes by to this insecurity. You are triggering their insecurities. That's about them.

You're going out there and living fully. Don't make their insecurity your problem. Think of what you're doing. You are modeling for your children and deeply educated woman who was pursuing her dreams and showing them that men can be caregivers. So haters are gonna be hater. Shamers are gonna be shamers. You are never going to convert them, okay, but instead put forth the power and the beauty of your story and what you and your husband have created with your kids.

I think it's magnificent, Dr Veronica, and I really tip my hat to what you've done. It's it's the path you're setting that future women scholars will follow. You can let those shamers know that too. Yeah, I didn't think you're going to make me cry. Thank you, Veronica. Keep up the doctor, Gangster. That's right by The very talented country music star Marion Morris was in the news recently for being mom shamed. We caught up to a right after she won the a C. M Award for Best

Female Performer of the Year. She wanted to share her very personal story with the Red Table. So the first vout of social mom shaving I dealt with was with my son shortly after he was born. It was fourth of July and I was at the lake with my family and I had Hayes, my son, on an inflatable golf cart float and it was tied to the dock, was very shallow, and I didn't have a baby life vest on him. So immediately once I posted it, every comment was like, why don't you have a life vest

on him? He could easily fall out of your arms, off the float into the water. I just find it really unfortunate because we're all trying to do our best, we all love our babies, and so it feels like a bigger betrayal when it's a mom that's shaming another mother because they've in there too. That was a good point that it's not like a betrayale. Mom shaming is actually mom gas lighting. Yeah, and what does that do that leaves mom's feeling like they're losing their minds? You know,

we actually take away the reality. You're not doing that right. He should be going on this routine, he should be going to sleep this time, he should be eating this. You're like, maybe they're right. When someone says these things to you, it's stuff. They're stealing your reality, They're stealing your sense of self. Don't let them take it. One of the things that really that really struck home for me, not necessarily with mom shaming, but just shame in general.

How I've used that in the past, and it's just making me look at myself and recognize the work that I need to do on myself. Because I didn't even realize that it was coming from a place of my own insecurity, that this was so wonderful to be able to have this conversation. Do you have any final words before we go? You taught all of us to just do it the way you want to do it, So I am totally following your lead here A. Congratulations on

being a new mom. Thank you, Jessica. I know that l A's fineness and started I binge the last season when it was great. We're gonna be binging this season. We can't wait. You Dr Rominey. We always love having you. Thank you for having me. You ladies, keep being the fabulous women warriors that you are, and we can't wait to actually have both of you here at this table at some point. Bye bye. What would you do if I got a fatal or what would you do? Like? No, absolutely,

but what if it was cute? Like what if it was like nothing is gonna be cute? Tattooed on your face at the end of the day, here's the truth. You've grown as hop Yeah, it wouldn't even matter how I felt. Don't try it. To join the Red Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.