Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the Red Table Pop Podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Hello RTT family. Um, this particular Red Table Talk is about a subject matter that has rarely talked about, and that is the sexual abuse of young boys. The headlines keep coming, priests, pop stars, even the boy scouts.
Every new accusation of sexual abuse exposes a hidden epidemic that tortures our young boys and leaves them suffering in silence. Just days ago, Common, the multi talented Oscar winner, courageously revealed a painful experience he had repressed for years of being molested by a family friend as a young boy. So I want people to be like, man, I can you know I've experienced this and I can say something about it if I find out how to heal myself. And a lot of people afraid to talk about it.
But the only way we stopped the cycling to talk about it. So that's why I told you to say something. And when a friend told me about a courageous NBA player who was revealing a trauma from his childhood. I knew we needed to hear a story at the Red Table. Let's do it. One of the reasons why this particular show um was really important to me is because how
many men told me, really men that you knew personally. Yes, if I think it's about the list of twenty men in my own life, they'll be like four or five out of twenty that have been you know, sexually abused, I mean even to the extreme of rape. So over the years, I've been really shocked at how common it is. Most men won't report it, they won't come out and talk about it, such a secretive matter. Joining the Red Tape was a former NBA player, Kian Dueling, who for
a very long time had kept a deep secret. In twelve, Kion Dueling had a picture perfect life with a beautiful wife and four adorable kids. He was starting his twelfth year as an NBA player, and I just signed a new one point four million dollar contract with the Boston Celtics. He played for the legendary NBA championship coach Doc Rivers, and his best friends were as teammates, All Star point guard Region Rondo and a young rising star Avery Bradley,
the Celtics had become a second family. Our Celtic culture was was just it was extremely tight. Um we were a family. He was very intelligent, articular guy who was kind of more like a mentor big brother than me. Our families were closed, our kids played together. Me and ki Are instantly just had like a special relationship. He was like an older brother for me. Avery invited key On to Seattle for a charity event, but afterwards his
life took a dark and drastic turn. After the event, Kian having an incident with someone in the bathroom and us having to stop him, like calm him down. And this is kind of where everything started. Kian was in the bathroom. A drunk man grabbed us behind and Kian snapped. We walked outside and we happened to see the guy that Kion saw on the restroom and he started choking him. To calm Kion down, I just held him tight, told him it wasn't worth it. From that day on, his
teammates say Kian became someone they didn't recognize. He came back from Seattle when we kind of had to gather at the house. I started to see the difference and changed in. He kept talking about, you know how we all need to repent and ask for forgiveness is coming soon, and I was definitely worried. A few days later, Kian went to the Celtics gym and brought his little boy
kJ with him. Guys were playing pick up on the court at the time, and Kian went on the court and stop to pick up Gay and it took the ball, and so everybody was like, man, what's wrong with key Are? And I remember him saying that he wanted to give his contract up. He didn't, he didn't want to play anymore. I got a call from my assistant, Emrie, you need to hurry up and get here. Kean is having a meltdown.
And so when I pull up at the facility, the door bust opening his key on in his shorts and those shirts, cold outside, and he hugs me, but he hugs me tight and hard. And for a long time he was literally talking about Illuminati's evil God. He wasn't making a lot of sense. I wanted to get a son away because he still was acting a little bit different, and I remember Rondo grabbing his son um kJ, and and me driving him home. I was like man, this isn't my brethren. No, I have no no idea what
I couldn't went wrong for him to just snap. Mamory calls me and tells me they put him in a mental institution. I just jumped in the car and I went to see Kia. And when I pull into this facility, if you've ever seen one over the Cuckoo's nest, it was worse. I said, you don't belong here. What's going on? Kia? And that's when he opened up about what happened, that he was abused sexually abuse. He said, I must have blocked it out of my mind all these years, and
somehow it came pouring out of me. I thought he was in trouble, and to watch what he went through, I don't think you'll ever understand the fear of all the people who loved him. Wow, how does that make you feel a lot of emotions. I feel supported, I feel loved um, and I also feel like a man who was in the battlefield and my brothers didn't just leave me there. Yeah. That proved to me that man, my folks got love for me. Yeah. Yeah, so I was very happy about that. Also during PTSD, you don't
remember everything you experienced. And that's a very difficult place to be for me as a man to say, hey, I don't remember some of those things that happened during those times. And so to hear the different prospectives, um, you know kind of really brings the full circle to me as well. Can you take us back to the beginning. Can you take us back to the actual incident? I can? I can. Um. So it was a rainy day South
Florida in the summer. Um, my friend and I we were at one of my brother's friends house and uh, we've been there before, we've hung out there before, played the video game, but this day it was different. This day he put porn on. UM, and that was really to me. You know, a part of the grooming didn't know. You're young, you're curious, you don't really know what to expect,
but you also know that you're human beings. So when porn's on and kind of grabbed your attention, um, and as that whole process went on, um, you know, you know, Oh, it's always still tough to talk about, but that was a that was a point where you know, um, he first orally raped me. Yeah, and then yeah, and UM, I remember running out of there, going home and jumping
in the shower. I got my bike, I threw it down, I took my handlebars off, I taped up a knife, and you know, I put my handlebars back together and I kind of started riding with a knife with me. How old were you? I was seven years old, got it? I was seven years old at the time. And how old was he um at the time? He had to be about fifteen sixteen years old. It was it an isolated incident? Yeah, that that was an isolated incident. And you never told anyone. I never told anyone. I didn't
tell my mom, I didn't tell anybody. What was it that made you not tell anyone? Fear? There was a fear of me telling my pops that I was touched by boy, right, you know, and that dynamic, those conversations aren't necessarily had, you know, in a healthy way. And then there's a there's a fear that comes along with telling your protectors out of fear of what they might do, how would they retaliate, and what repercussions would have been for them. Yes, did you still have to see this person? Yeah?
I had to see him quite a bit. Did it ever make you can on question like your sexuality, right, question just your just you. Yeah, I think you have to. You have to, you know, ask yourself questions in order to try and wrap your mind around it. So, uh, you know, the first question is what was it in me that they saw that it happened to me? You know? Was it some type of you know, energy that I was giving off? So a lot of times, you know, I blamed myself, like dagn he caught me slipping? What
was I doing there? Also you questioned your toughness, you know, you questioning your masculine energy because I wasn't strong enough to fight him off. And so I blamed myself for years. So you were only seven. Do you remember whether you noticed in yourself any kind of change and behavior that you can recall now because you wouldn't have recognized it then. Yeah, it made me angry. You know. I went from being
you know, happy, go lucky toube. You know, if I didn't get my way, I might you know, throw bottles on the basketball court nobody playing the day. Started smoking very early, started drinking very early. I became more promiscuous at a very early age. I got to prove to myself that this wasn't real, so I gotta go chase his many girls as I potentially can. You know, so it made me very promiscuous. Did you ever confront your abuser? No, I never got that opportunity to confront him or get
that you know, justice. A lot of times when you're abused, you might not get justice, but I think you gotta get healing. Yeah, you know, Um, I think they're both important. But for me, the track that I chose was the healing track. And so the first person I told about it was my wife and then I told Doc about it. How did she react? It was tough. Yeah, she was
just so disappointed that you know I didn't tell her. Yeah, Um, from my perspective, you know, I thought she would look at me as less than a man, you know, so there was some fear associated with that. Um. Also, you know, just being in a very masculine industry, you know, how would the guys perceived that I've been you know, sexually abused at the hands of a teenage man, Right, so there was a lot of you know, um, doubt and in securities and confliction within me. Um during that time. Right.
We don't always think about how sexual abuse affects a survivor's loved one, but Kian's wife, Tasha has been dealing with this trauma as well. Kian Dueling and his wife Tasha were high school sweethearts. I met Kian at a football game and were sixteen years old. I like that he was funny and he was caring. We went to all the events together, ProMED, we went to homecoming together. You couldn't pull us apart. At just twenty years old,
the Duelings began their life together. They got married, started a family, and watched Kian's dream of joining the NBA come true when he was drafted in the first round. They had a happy life until the incident in the bathroom. After Kian came back from Seattle, he changed a lot and he was acting weird. He see thing and said we didn't see you know. He thought people was out
to get him. One day, my daughter Gabby ran upstairs and she was like, Mommy, mommy, dadd is in the street and cars are coming and they're blowing at him, and I'm just like what. So one of the neighbors saw Kian in the street and they called the police. The police came and it was a whole bunch of police and I'm just like, oh my god, nie knocking and bamming on the door. They had their guns and they handcuffed him on the floor and they was just like, is he having a mental break now? I said yes.
He was like, we have to take him because he can't be here around the kids. Tasha followed the police card to the hospital. But when she got there, Yeah, it broke my heart because he didn't know who I was. Yeah, I was like, I'm Natasha Doing, I'm your wife. He said you sure, I said yeah, and so he said what then who am I? I said, you're killing doing? I said, we have four kids and that that was really hard and I knew I couldn't take him back around the kids until he got better. I sent him
to the mental institution and that was hard too. It wasn't until the next day Tasha was allowed to visit him. That mental hospital was really honestly like a horror movie, like something that I've seen off of film. It was. It was really scary. When I got in to see him, he just like had his hand behind his head laying on the bed, and I just got in the bed
and laid next to him. He told me that he was molested and that he cheated, and I'm just like, okay, Ken, like, damn, you wait till you thirty five to tell me this, and then on top of that, you tell me you hid. So now I have to not only like help you get out of here, I gotta help you get out of here knowing that you cheated on me. I wanted to say, okay, way the women you were sleeping with, help them come help you get out in the middle too, That's what I really wanted to say. But I could
not leave my husband in that hospital. I think I went through every emotion that you could possibly go through at that time. I was hurt, and I still feel rage. I'm surprised I'm able to sit here. M hmm, wow, you still feel rage about m Just it's just like when I think about certain things, you know, like if I'm fooling this underworld, you know, stuff like you know, these little things like you just sometimes you just think
about it and you just start thinking and just get angry. So, you know, I just had to get him out of there first, dan deal with all that, yeah, with all that other stuff. So finally, when I got him out, then he got well. Then I had to deal with what I was going through because I felt like he was getting worse there. It seemed like every time I went there, they was doping him up. That's what I was going to ask. Was he for medication? Yeah, he was on medication. And I just felt like it was
really worse. And I was just like, if I don't get my husband out of here, I'm gonna lose him. Yeah. Have you been able to grasp what he was dealing with that could lead to lead to the promise. I didn't understand that at first, but you do now. I do now. It was it's really tough to even think about, you know what I mean. But it wasn't about me, not in the least. Yeah. Yeah, I can't be fault for what he did. And that's what I had to tell myself. Yeah, you feel like that, that's kind of
your anger is kind of smooth enough. It is, It is smooth enough. It has too. I got four babies. I just can't be got a beautiful Yes I do who. Yes, I love this man since I was a kid and all the work that he's Yes, I'm of him. I am alone. Yeah, we we just really had to re vamp and read, learn each other differently, you know, learn each other's love language, how to communicate. Also where I well, guys work, Yes, yes, you have, you have. I'm so impressed.
I'm trying to grow with my family. So I just think Tasha for being vulnerable enough. This process has allowed me to hit levels of love that I didn't know. I Yes, as difficult as this time has been for you, guys, it's been a blessing it has, you know, because you're all better for it. Yes, you know, sometimes like the best part about your life would be sometimes the most darkest on the thing that might you know, you might
be ashamed of. And I just knew I couldn't get stuck and be another story, um, of somebody who just lost his mind and then disappeared. And I had a redemption story to tell that part. Well, you know, I also have to say, you know, as far as I'm proud of the community that has surrounded you and supported you. Um, and we got a message from some folks. Yeah, it's been has been a journey. I'm very proud of man you've become. And I appreciate the brothers you've been for
me in my entire life. Thank you for helping me become not only a better basketball player, better better person. You are a leader of men, um, You're an important figure in all our lives. I know that Doc has been like one of your number one your number one supporter, um, but he has more to tell you. Yeah, So just first, how you doing. I'm doing great? So Doc, I gotta show you this. You didn't get to see this, Doc.
Oh my god. I had to get that team that Dot gave us when I was with the Celtics and the goals in order to me to be all that I could be. I need you to be all you can be so that we could be all that we could be. It's an African word and so like that's something that just really really, you know, resonated with me. And man, the fact that you showed up for me. Man, you don't leave me. You want to know where you know you saw me, you know through you know that experience. Man,
it just it's life changing for me. So I just you know you love always for that coach, love you love you always. Just she was like the silent like warrior him. You know you really were Like it's amazing and everyone always says what you were going through. And I remember telling that Marie. I think Tash is going you know, she's got two kids. And when that call came, I swear I was on the golf course and I
don't walk off the golf course just anybody. I ran like, I was like, no, this is you were there man when you were struggling. You know, we all became sad like as a group, our team, and I did. And you know, we go back to that one day when I walked in that mental institution and you know, I told you later like the first thing I thought was this man is he didn't belong here? Right like, we're
getting him out of here. That's why Dog, I really have a lot of admiration for you as well, because you really saw this young man in trouble and you really did what you could. But we wasn't letting him go anybody then, you know, right, well, I'll be I'll be frank with you. There's times there's there's people in your life you do let go. You know there are there really are, uh, but he wasn't one of them, you know, you just I just know him. I knew him,
like there's no way we're gonna let him go? What was it about him? So the spirit um he was you know, you hate to say a good one just it's such a good human being. And this was a guy we're saving. And I do think your relationship with the players was the help. I mean Rondo and all those guys. You know, Rondo could be a pain in the butt. Uh and you know that, am I right? I can need to confirm. But having said that, when
this happened, Rondo was on top of it. So it's funny how like that helped me with Rondo because all of a sudden, I'm like, wait a minute, Rondo is a great dude. You know, people think athletes are perfect, but we have problems just like everybody else. That's why we like coming here at the Red Table. I'm hoping that we can create um more vulnerable space for our men. Oh you know, because it's the vulnerability as well that
that that nurtures the strength. We don't talk. You come on from practice and what you do to that nothing, you know, what's going on? Nothing, It's just who we are. I guess I don't know. And when we do, we do feel better about it, but we just don't share I'm guilty of that as much as anybody. I just don't I yeah, I just think it's an Unfortunately, that's why we carry wallets. You guys carry persons, y'all. Y'all got all this stuff. We don't have. We don't carry much,
you know, we don't. We don't go to therapy black man. Black man, don't want to go to the dentist. Yeah, it's true. We don't like, we don't trust doctor. We don't trust we don't we don't trust doctors. To try to get an athlete to a therapist is brutal. It's hard because to them it's it's a sign of weakness, and you can't show weakness. The thing that I realized when I went to therapy, it was like a physical relief, like weights went off my shoulders. Not my personality was different.
Sometimes I was like pop because I was mad up in their joint. Sometimes I was hopeless, like sad. But I went through all those different emotions, dropped that baggage off. I'm telling you, there's so many guys carrying their whole life experience around with them, and if they really want to soar, they got to get rid of some of that emotional baggage so that they can just soar that unload.
I was really grateful that I had a lot of male friends that share their experiences with me because I was as strict of where my boys were staying, where they were going as I was with my girl, because I had heard enough stories to know that it was a reality that your boys could be victimized. They look at my kids, they're all athletes, they have all been on road trip. Anything could have happened and we would have never known. Yeah, make everything so taboo. Uh, you know,
it creates a problem. That's why people don't talk about it. Yeah, well we're changing that. You touched a lot of people. Man, Man, things you really did. You allowed me to doc You empowered me. You empowered me to have a voice. You know, you sat me right next to Rondo. You know one time you called me out in the locker room and you told a guy, look at him. I look back, like, who me? Look at him? He's totally giving himself to
the team. And it was Rondo, it was KG was Paul Pierce was real and all these guys in the locker room and you said look at him, and man, you just empowered me like no other man, so I'm always grateful for that. We really appreciate having had the opportunity to sing with you guys. Thank you for having Yeah, seriously, thank you, Doc, thank you, thank you. Solder love right there. To join the Red table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com
slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.