Is Polyamory For You?

reasons why divorces happen is infidelity. Less couples are saying I do, and more young people are experimenting with a new kind of love. How did you feel when I told you that I was polyamorous. It feels like it's really all just centered around sex. Don't get frustrated. Will redefining relationships? All right? We brought your boyfriend with you. Remodeling romance. How many other relationships are you involved in right now? Rewriting the rules? You consider yourself a polymuby?

Is traditional marriage a thing of the past? The history of marriage really irks me. Stay tuned because I am struggling here. I am struggling, Willow, I got the table Willow and her polyamory explorations. I love it. Do you believe in monogamy being with one person romantically and sexually till death? Do us part? Honey? For many younger people like Willow answers no. Instead, they are choosing polyamory, which means having multiple emotional and romantic partners at the same time.

This has been a journey for you, miss Willow. How did you make this decision with polyamory? I feel like the main foundation is the freedom to be able to create a relationship style that works for you and not just stepping into monogamy because that's what everyone around you says it's the right thing to do. So I was like, how can I structure the way that I approach relationships

with that in mind? Also doing research into polyamory. The main reasons why monogamous relationships or why marriage, why divorces happen is infidelity. For somebody like me, it feels like it's really all just centered around I mean, I'll give you an example. Let's say you haven't always been the kind of person that wanted to have sex all the time, but your partner is Are you going to be the person to say you know, just because I don't have

these needs, you can't have them either. And so that's kind of one of the reasons why I actually was interested in Polly, because I was introduced to it through kind of a non sexual lens. In my friend group, I'm the only polyamorous person and I have the least sex out of all of my friends. So how did you feel when I told you that I was polyamorous? When you were like, Hey, this is my get down, I was like, I totally wanting to set up your life in a way that you can have what it

is that you want. I think anything goes as long as the intentions are clear. Ever, to end yourself really more to yourself than anything right, And I know that there's a lot of beauty that sits outside of the conventional boxes. Let's not negate just the simple um because there there are people that still enjoy marriage as it is today. I happen to enjoy being married, even though I've been married several times that I've been through it's wrong.

This isn't about changing paradigm that works for people. This isn't about that. It's about able to have the freedom to create a relationship. I'm good. It's almost like you're born, you go to school, you go to college, you can get married, kids. Do you have to take offense? But a lot of people have done that and felt unfulfilled in their lives. But I also think you have to be careful in these particular dynamics because they can be

a little distracting. Meaning. But here's here's the difference between monogamous relationships. When you have those monogamous boundaries, you're actually forced to have to just listen to what I'm saying. Okay, just take a minute. Just listen to what I'm saying.

When you have those boundaries that are put in and you aren't giving yourselves the opportunity to go call Jane or to go call Robert when things aren't going well within your right in your relationship right, it makes you have to confront and look at things in a different manner. So all I'm saying is that in these kinds of dynamics and just being careful that we're not trying to dodge the rain drops. There's comfort in that it provides to almost like a social order yes to life in

setting boundaries and commitments. Most people are practicing monogamy because they feel like they have no other choice. We all know that most people out here do an unethical nonmonogamy an damn ways, that's the whole that's called cheating, y'all. That most people's out here just acting a food. But that's also why it's important to be able to have the discussion beforehand, which is where I think people fall short, especially today, because let me tell you something, haven't been

married four times. Rodney and I had something. No, Rodney and I had some serious conversation. You have to about what does this mean to you, even even outside of the counseling that you get from your past or before you can get married, because most people that get married, you know, we'll get counseling from their from their past masters because there is a religious aspect to it, a god aspect to it. James, Yeah, for sure. And we had deep conversation about what does this mean to us?

What do we want to create for for ourselves? And we actually talked about Polly Amory. It was that something that we wanted to explore. We had that conversation. But see the difference is is that you and Rodney have lived so much life, right, so when you're talking to a twenty year old who is thinking about being married. So let's see, I got married at twenty five, one

of those Jesus. And the problem is if you go into a relationship thinking that this is going to be exactly how it is today till the day that you die, I die, you're in trouble, sadly mistaken, sadly mistaken now regardless what the dynamic of the love is going to be. So there five people, like it's just two people, you know, and whatever it is, it's going to change. And that's where the conversation comes in exact. The practicing monogamy has to be a choice that you make, just like practicing.

So that's the thing that's the only part about marriage today and monogamy that I think is antiquated. That monogamy has to be your deef choice. It can't be because I'm told I'm supposed to do it this way. That my dear is deeply antiquated and no longer works. I guess I'm not really clear on what it offers. You. Could you imagine being in a group and loving everyone equally, know whether it be platonic or not. Wow, Well, then I don't know what to say that's because of GAM's

ideas around love. Here's the one thing I want to talk to you about. This has really been something that has been a personal journey you. What are your feelings and ideas around marriage as you know it today? The history of marriage really irks me, y um, just the history of marriage as a whole and what it has

represented over the years for women in particular. I feel like the only way that I would get married is let's say me and my partner are partners wants to help people, and we need to put our finances together in order to make that vision happen. That's the only way I could see myself getting married. So there has to be a common purpose. Yeah, there has to be a purpose beyond I think you're killing And that goes

for any relationship. So whether it's whether it's a relationship just with yourself, it needs to be connected to something greater than you, because I think the reason why so many relationships are not working is because it's steeped in self gratification, and that is going to get you in trouble every single time. I feel like, if you're going to be married, I think one of the things that has to change is the idea that I need a husband. We're gonna have no, no, no no. What are you

planning to build together? What are you planning to do together? What is the purpose of your togetherness? Because it has to be bigger than the two of you. When I look at Justin and Haley, I really they're beautiful couple. But not to say that they won't have their difficulties, because they will. But here's the thing that I love about how they've started their relationship. They agree on God. They want to serve God, and they want to love God together, and so that is always their north star.

So coming to the table is a polyamorous young woman who's in a relationship with a married man. Meet Gabrielle Smith. She practices solo polyamory, meaning she has multiple partner and doesn't consider any of them more important than the others. Aaron is her platonic life partner, Doug is her sexual partner, Alex is her boyfriend. Alex has a wife. Alex's wife has a boyfriend, Jeff, and they're all down with that. Gabrielle has been very open about her relationships and has

become a leading voice in the ethical nonmonogamy community. It seems extremely confusing to me. I don't understand it. Yeah, I need to hear everything you got to say. I just want to say I'm so happy that you're here because I see a lot of you know, white people talking about this specific content. And when I came across your page, I was like, oh my gosh, up, young black woman speaking her truth about this. That was my whole big thing. The face of polyamory is lessley white people,

and that's not my reality. And I knew other people felt the same way. And the more you see that this is something that exists and this is something that's possible for you, the more people feel like empowered. How did you come to understanding you wanted a polyamorous relationship? And the first time I had heard about it, I was reading fan fiction. The main character was in a love triangle. The two guys were supposed to do get out to figure out who would be her love at

the end, so very Barbara. It was like a thing at the end, they kind of got an equal score, so she just picked both of them, and I was like, wait, this is so much better, Like this is possible. And then I was in my first relationship, and I was like seventeen to nineteen and a year and a half in I was noticed I was like looking at other people and that kind of opened the idea of like, Okay, maybe we can do a polyamorous relationship. And then I met Alex and that kind of solidified things for me.

All Right, she brought your boyfriend with you, and he is married and also has other romantic partners. Besides, I want to just start getting a little bit of background from the force, because if we were deeply intrigued, right, um, intrigued and confused, let's pull the curtain back. Yeah, yeah, back a little bit. So you're married to bridget So how did this lifestyle come up for the both of you. We've been together almost ten years and we've been open

for about half of that time. Okay, we're about five years into our relationship and you know, there's lots of challenging scenarios that happened in monogamy. Yeah, commitment is a learning experience. Yes, since the beginning, we're always really candid with our relationships. When it came to being attracted to other people, and we woulda socialized of parties, we'd be a little Ferty, and we kind of dug that about each other. So one thing lent to another and her

and I decided to try to open things up. And I don't think we did it to try to fix our relationship. I've always had the strong feeling of commitment, Like I really cherished commitment a lot. So for me, it was a little complicated first to wrap my head around it. But I was in because I thought that it would be like a journey. So how did the two of you meet? We went out Tinder? Anything crazy? We went on our first date. It was you were he was coming from dinner with his wife and a

friend of theirs and we got a drink. Did everybody come or did you just Yeah, it was just that. We waited a month, we clicked. We clicked. Do you and his wife have a relationship relationship? Yeah, we don't. We don't have to because it's pretty much a requirement if I'm like dating someone with a partner. Um, we practice what is called kitchen table Polly. I'm right where like I at the very minimum need to meet someone's partner because I need to kind of know what energy

you have going on at home. I need to make sure is are Okay. I think we're all very lucky because we get along so well. Alex's wife Bridget shared why your relationship works for her. Alex is one of the most loyal people I've ever met, Like more than I could ever even hope to be. Alex is so loyal, Like if we do skip a date night, or if he sees somebody like three nights a week and we

haven't had dinner together yet. Like, I know this sounds maybe crazy some people, but it really doesn't bother me because I just know at the end of the day that Alex isn't going anywhere. Yeah, and I love that she has her own boyfriend because I feel like there's this trend where it's like the men can have all the parts, yes, and then it's like, oh, once the woman wants to have a partner, it's like, oh wait, now we're going a little too far here. But it's

also specifically you can't date other men. Yeah, I'm with women because a woman can't stay on my girlfriend me, which like which exactly, Okay, so I have because I am struggling and I want to feel like I am ready. I just don't understand it. It still sounds to me, like the major motivation is sexual. It's not about, oh, I want to have all these partners. I want to do all of these things. It's just like my sexuality. I'm not specifically attracted to men, and I'm not specifically

attracted to women or any other gender. It's that I'm open to anything. I want to be able to take opportunities if I feel like they're natural to me. You also have a platonic different relationships, Like we're just friends, but it was deeper than like a normal friendship. It was very intimate, and I think that's what makes the difference, and that's why I consider her like a life partner. I jokingly call her my wife. We did try to

like have sex ones and it didn't work. Yeah, like we run into it, never like literally mutually decided we're good. She is so special to me, and like our relationship has like a lot of debts. Romantic and platonic relationships can be equal. To me, Alex, why did you decide to get married in the first place? Because I deeply loved Bridget and the show with our commitment to tell each other like this is our journey together. But there was a familial element too, like we wanted our whole

family to be there together, like celebrate our love. And the wedding was amazing, it was beautiful. What kind of rules of boundaries did you and Bridget create for yourselves? As we progressed of the boundary, it was less about boundaries and more about being completely honest and communicative, communicative with each other about our intentions, about our expectations of

one another. That actually strengthened our relationship. Because polyamory forces you to make or break either you figure it out or you don't. There are times when we're the only people that can host, in which case I get sex siled. Yeah. Sex siling is when you look at the calendar, oh tomorrow, uh so and says coming over and Bridget is hosting. That means that I need to find something to do, either work late, or go see a movie, or hang

out with a friend or go to the bar. To be quite frank, we didn't have too many boundaries at first. We were just interested in exploring and meeting new people and having new experiences at sexual experiences as well. I know what you're thinking, so, and the other thing is the other thing is, yes, there's a sexual element I do enjoy novel sex, and I don't think there's anything shameful about that. If you're being honest with the other

partners about Gaby also enjoys sex. So it is my way, it's it's and that's a part of who we are and we're not ashamed of it. Well, I think that's great and meaning at least you can be honest about it both, because I think there's a lot of non consensual, non monogamy going on. People will not just be on if the numbers add up with all these two tickets, everyone's thrown around about marriage and how it fails and how it doesn't, then we're all thinking about it. Yeah,

you have to talk about the more exactly. It's like, yo, if you're already thinking about it in your monogamous relationship, it's gonna be the same anious relationship. You have to be saying more. Shouldn't be thinking about everybody, right, But people are like, I shouldn't and I but I want to also put One day, I'm gonna wake up and a miracle is going to happen, and I'm just gonna be monogon this guy. I know you aren't putting too

too much on on the negative side of monogamy. It's not right, so we don't we don't want to put that out. We all established that we don't get frustrated. Will Oh, don't get frustrated because I just want to be clear that some people like monogamy. Monogamy itself is fine, but when you form a poonamorous relationship, instead of rules, let's think about boundaries and then agreements, because maybe are very much like you can't do that. The boundary is

this is something that I would not like. I think the only real agreement we have this fluid funding, which is like comdo musage with other people, which makes a lot of sense because health is it a health factor health here. So when Alex did have another partner, I asked, you know, I don't want to hear unsolicited sexual details about what's going on, because that was like for my comfort. It's really interesting because I keep hearing you referring back

to Alex for everything. It seems more like he is more your partner than you think, because he's like an anchor for me essentially, like I have dated other people and I would maybe not right now, but I lean later I would like to have another partner. Nobody really like fully measures up to the level of commitment I get from Alex. Would do holidays look like for you guys? Christmas again? Yeah we did for the first time, or yeah we So that's beautiful. It was me you and

Bridget did did Jeff come? They did come from us? Yeah? So Jeff is Bridget's boyfriend, Jeff Bridge. So we all hung out for years and my roommate came with us. So holidays I think we would like them to be like that. Alex. When your girlfriend and your wife don't get along, tell me what that looks like. Oh, I mean, it doesn't happen a lot, but it has happened, so I want to know what that looks like. It challenges

my mediation skills. When your partners get along, it's easier to manage your time because they can do things together. The Google calendar is red hot if your partners don't get along, Holley, memory is not for everybody. Disclaimer, I would think that that would be extremely challenging. It doesn't have to be such a laborious task if you understand and you believe that low is not a limited resource. Nobody can take Alex away from me. And he's married.

A lot of people will be like, well, what if Bridget decides that she just doesn't want to do this anymore. I asked him this like at one point, and he was like, it's just not gonna happen. And it's because me and Bridget always talk about are issues before they become issues. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about. Sure, if I know I'm going to be late and with somebody else, but Bridge is expecting me to be home at a certain time, I got

to warn her ahead of time. I can't just let her assume and be home on time, going to show up late and disappoint her. You have to manage your expectations with your partners. Monogamous people can't even do that. I know what I mean, It's like, fine, that's my main point at that level of honesty and being able to have the courage to explore in this way so that you can actually get to a more authentic, exactlyship.

I can currently can manage multiple relationships, just like I can manage multiple friendship exactly Previously three partners at one time. How did that work out? I mean, how did that work for you? I mean it was challenging. I do run my own business, so that's like almost like another commitment. It was challenging for surely had four partners. They couldn't see myself going past two outside of It's a lot. How many other relationships are you involved in? Right now?

It's just my wife and Gavy. But now after the pandemic, I'm still excited about opening up my relationship to other people, but not in the same committed way that I am. A bridget and okay got it. So joining the table as someone who just started exploring polyamory. A couple of years ago, twenty eight year old Gabrielle Alexa Nowel came out as bisexual after a strict religious upbringing. Now she's opening herself up to the polyamorous lifestyle. Hi, today we

have Gavin gab the two Gas. You consider yourself a Polly Newbie? I am. I was just single, but then dating polyamorous people, and then I guess I thought one day, like, I mean, I could just have this for myself. How does your family feel about you being a Polly Newbie? Um? And they have no idea. There's I was very indoctrinated into the church and they had me signed like a purity packed and there was like a lot of measures of control that were baked into the way that I

was raised to look at relationships. I just know that they would not understand it, and I would love for them to come to that understanding. And I think when they will, they just figured the By thing out. They're just like okay, like science says, that's okay, I guess, And you do have to pick your battles. Sometimes you can't come out as By, and then you go and I'm polly An, you gotta be like I'm By. Let's work on this for a couple of years. And well, I mean, you think it the net go see you

on this show. I was right, they get my friend better be ready. If they did ask me, I'd be ready to give them my take on I actually relate when I first became public. I became public, I didn't tell my family ahead of time. I lost the nerve. I was so nervous, and they found out the way everybody else found out on the news. So that was harsh and I had to work from there. So I

made a mistake. You know, I should have found the nerves, should have told them and warned them because there's a social stigma that comes with that the and I didn't give them a chance to start emotionally preparing themselves. So I do apologize for that. I think they're starting to

become more comfortable with it. They sometimes even ask me about Yeah, I'm very open, like I'll tell them what I'm doing all the time, and sometimes they're ready to hear it, and sometimes they're not so ready to hear it. I'm just working on them being more accepting of me, and then maybe one day, who knows. I I'm very

I'm hopeful they haven't disowned me. So that's that's that's how has it been kind of navigating those jealousy waters Because I know when I first started and I was all idealistic about it, and then I got in the situation and I was like, whoa, there's a lot that needs to be addressed within myself that maybe I need to step away from this situation and address these things because I actually want to like go into this situation with a more um how shall I put it, uh,

a more like not broken mindset, like like I'm not coming into it like feeling like I'm at a lack you know what? I mean like coming into it feeling fulfilled and feeling like I can actually handle this. I have the tools, I have the security within, and I just want to know, because you're new at this, Like how has that journey been for you? Prior to polyamory. Was always going through someone's phone are like their Facebook messages like I was, And I was so sneaky, I

was so good at it. I was like, this is just something that's just like I think everyone must be doing in their relationships, and I've just normalized it. And now that there is like no secret for me to find the meaning of finding out that someone's interested in someone else, like that search for crow actually just like no longer exists. Yeah, I would have so much work to do. That's that's what I was just trying to be in a polyamorous relationships. Real deal Jealousy, Yeah I did.

Jealousy is nothing but your own insecurity. That's your own y. I did things that I never that I said I would never do when I was in my fits of jealousy. Oh my god, that made me realize just how much like I need to step back and work on myself. Yeah, it really puts a mirror up for you to really look at how you really feel about your I just think I want a different that different mirror. This is what makes people so angry when you even bring up

this whole polyamory thing as an option. How the hell is that supposed to work? You mean, no, no, no, no no no. The reason why I'm in a relationship and so that you can make me feel a certain way and you can validate me in a way that I won't do it for myself, especially for women. Women are like, hold up, my man is looking at who or my woman is looking at who? Own No, I'm

supposed to be the only one they later on. I mean, so I really realized that how much we use our relationships to bolster our egos, you know, which has absolutely nothing to do with love, nothing at all. Yeah, you cannot be an insecure person for a long time. And this, just like I told you the other day, as long as you are learning to have the greatest love affair with Willow, I'm okay with whatever you do. Exactly So, Effie Blue, a relationship coach specializing a non monogamy, has

some advice when it comes to jealousy. Al Right, Effie, Hey, I work with people who are curious about transitioning into or have hit a roadblock in open relationships. Love that jealousy is probably the number one topic that comes up

when anyone's ever talking about polyamory. It's almost like a fire alarm that's going on in your mind, and all that's doing is giving your messages something is wrong, something is wrong, something is on, something is wrong, and just like a fire alarm, you kind of have to like turn it off, so you kind of kind of calm yourself and search why it's triggered, Like what's causing the fire alarm. You just want to get down to the

root of that insecurity and deal with that. And the way that I also like to think about the insecurity is also UM giving you a clue to what you really truly desire and what you truly want to have, then find a way to articulate that to your partners or find ways to meet those needs for yourself. Compersion is something that's really worth UM talking about if you're talking about jealousy. It's what I call the counterboums for jealousy.

It is UM joy for somebody else's joy that has nothing to do with you, and it comes up in polyamory often because you are in situations where you see a partner of partners having a great time with somebody else and they, you know, look radiant or they want to tell you all about this amazing person they've just met. In those moments, you get to have a choice. You can you can feel the jealousy and and and look at it as a teacher like what is this telling me?

You can also nurture this feeling of joy for them, which is the feeling of love and happiness that you feel because you know your partner is also being fulfilled. I practice polyamory myself and I coach people in this, so I am an advocate. But polyamory takes a lot of bandwidth that's emotional bandwidth, that is a mental bandwidth as time, and you know you have to care for these people, you have to care for yourself, and not everybody has that capacity. And that's okay if you don't

have it. It's not some evolved like higher way of being in your relationships. You really have to be realistic of what's available with you and whether you enjoy it or not. Not everybody enjoys all those long conversations about what you need and what you want, what you want the future to look like. Beautiful if that works for you, But it's just not for everyone. Yeah, I agree. You know what, Effie, kudos, because I think it's important that

we understand there's not one or the others. You know that this is just another option for people who have the band with and who want this kind of you know, UM way of interacting and reship. Joining us is Michelle. She is second generation Asian American and wants to normalize non monogamy in the Asian community. Hi, how are you. I'm good. I love the demographics at this table here because polyamory isn't just for white people, right and right?

So yeah, I love whenever you know, we get the chance to like amplify voices that are marginalized within an already marginalized community. Yes, explain to us how polyamory became an option for you growing up? Um, I was still on the monogamy train, but I had these misgivings. I'm like, well, it seems like the monogamy thing isn't perfect or isn't as perfect as everyone is saying it is. And when I watched movies, like a lot of the time there was the woman with the two options that she had

to choose between, like the love triangle. In my teenage mind, I was like, isn't there a way to have an agreement? And it just clicked for me and I've never turned back since. So, how does your family feel about you being Polly? So the only person in my family who knows is my sister because we're super super close, and I have sort of don't ask, don't tell policy with my family. My mom just like wants our family to

just be together and no conflict. So she I think she knows herself well enough not to pry because she knows that details of her children's lives would make her uncomfortable. And I'm at the point where they were to see

this or something, I'd be okay with that. I'm just in no rush to try to like, Okay, here's the conversation, and here's me trying to kind of justify this to you, And this is me trying to explain and go through this emotional labor to say that, like, this isn't just a phase, mom, this is this is very core to who I am, and just deal with it. But yeah, I'm in no rush to get into that conversation. No,

I totally understand that for sure. You know, I'm sitting up here and I'm really trying to understand and listen and kind of absorbing everything. But as I'm sitting here, I'm recognizing it it's really not all that important for me to understand. But no, that's that's fact. It's not important for me to understand. It's important that i'd be able to listen without judgment and let you thing. Yeah, if that means three people, if it means ten people,

if that's what works for you, that's great. It doesn't really have anything to do with me. We're seeking acceptance, Yeah, exactly, it's not for us to decide for you. What how are you supposed to be living your life, not trying to break pronogamy a party of new counterculture thing like leave me alone, Like like, just let me live my life.

And I just want to say, I feel so just excited and seen because I've been, you know, studying polyamory for a really long time and I just want to show that there's so much here to be mined and to be uncovered. Yeah, I tell you what, this was a beautiful uncovering today and burning away the layers and the myths around polyamory. So I really appreciate all you coming. That was a revelation for me trying understanding I got. I just did not have judgment about it. That's the thing.

I'm good on all that. It might be t m I, but I'm okay with you being polyamorous, Willow. I have no issue with it now, you just see it like more in depth. Yeah. To join the Red Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.