How Your Relationship can survive Quarantine

You're forced and look at things differently. For couples feeling the pressure in quarantine, I go straight to fight help from world renowned intimacy expert our personal counselor for Will and I both Mikhaela Bone Assume the best and not the worst. Understand Listen be quiet. Fame pastor John Gray opens up about his marriage. I have been forced into intimacy. This quarantine life is super hard. I definitely have control issues. One of the things that I realize is that I

don't know Will at all. How your relationship can survive the coronavirus pandemic quarantine. I don't my Borkini, honey, And it looks fabulous, darling, fabulous. I'm excited about this topic today for sure. Definitely. Yeah, I'm really excited about this Red Table today. You're going to meet a woman who has been counseling Will and myself for years. This pandemic is causing serious damage to many partnerships, and the force togetherness is like living in a pressure cooker and pushing

many couples over the edge. Did you guys hear about that tweet going around on Twitter that says you can't spell divorce without COVID? Did? I refused to be worried about spelling divorce anymore in my lifetime. So, yeah, you've had enough enough divorce. So I'm just in the place. I'm just like, I just want peace. Yeah, and anyway you can do that. Just like today I needed a reason like getting up and having to come to this table able. I said, we would make you feel good.

I want to feel like I'm going to the beach, put on our babe in soon and you look beautiful. Let me just say a little overall like because I was like, baby, whatever you need to do to feel good about what is happening today, do it. You know. I find that's really helpful for me to just like take a little moment for myself. Yeah, Nanny and I are really good with giving each other space and time. That's one of the biggest things. Yeah, to help us

navigate our relationship challenges. During the pandemic is author, teacher, counselor our personal counselor for Will and I both got to include that exactly. MICHAELA Bone, Hey, MICHAELA. Welcome to the time. Oh I wish you could actually be here, but welcome, MICHAELA. Thank you. MICHAELA works personally helping couples and people navigate through their issues. Mackayla, let me ask this.

I definitely have control issues. I think Jada probably does too, and so I'm finding that that is really kicking in for me, Like being in this coronavirus pandemic has kind of thrown me back into that wanting to control everything. I also think sometimes when you're just under stress, like those underlying feelings get in hand enhanced to All human beings have a built in nervous system response that is fight, flight or freeze, right, So when the going gets tough,

our nervous system kicks into survival. When you're in the fight response, you're not only going to be more aggressive than you but also more controlling. It becomes super important that your environment is being managed and controlled and so that you are creating safety for yourself and those around. That's a flight response. Essentially, then there's people who tend towards flight. They want to they want to go away, they want space by themselves. They get really afraid, fearful, anxious.

So that's the flight response, and then the flight response you kind of just want to receive and you get very nervous. Freeze is a different thing, because freeze makes you look like you're okay m hm. They are very rational, but they're keep it off and that's actually the hardest to deal with because it's the hardest to spot. They can't listen properly anymore, they don't comprehend what you're saying. You think they're not totally there. They might bump themselves,

so stumble war injury themselves. They're slower, they don't connect as deeply as they usually can. But that's hard to spot. That's an interesting Yeah, is an interesting one. Yeah. I'm definitely in a position of just having to that control that you were talking about, because I go straight to fight.

As MICHAELA knows, I'm really kind of in a position where that is really not the option, you know what I mean, and having to really just take a breath, take a minute, sit on my hands before I say or do anything, recognizing I'm in fight, so be quiet, don't say anything. Then just giving myself time until I can get into a different space. But and and really having to talk myself down from there's no controlling, there's

nothing to conquer and beat. This is about understanding. So that's that's the mantra I've been trying to give myself, MICHAELA understand, Understand, Listen, listen, be quiet, be quiet. All right, Well let's open it up for questions. So thousands of people around the nation come to see Pastor John Gray speak and give counsel. But he and his wife Aventer needs some counsel themselves during this pandemic, just like the

rest of us. During their nearly tenure marriage, John Gray has become one of the most popular pastors in America, known for his candid sermons. So why are you're worrying about who he's sleeping with and who she's sleeping with and how she's living her life when you need to be handling how you live in your life. Facts and his ability to connect to the people. You're talking about their luston but your gluttonius, Yeah, nobody want to talk

about that. Gluttony is a said too, put them downuts down, They'll just save me one. Life at the Altar comes with his challenges and Pastor John and his wife Avanter are still learning a few things about their marriage they didn't realize before. My struggle is not the same as yours, so please don't judge based on your struggle. Wow. Interesting, So what's going on you know with you guys doing this pandemic and the same thing that's happening at your house.

That's right, you know we're trying to figure it out. Well, what have you learned? I have to be honest, I think one of the things that I realize is that I don't know Will at all. You really feel, let me tell you. I feel like there's a layer that you get to write. Life gets busy and you create these stories in your hand. Then you hold onto these stories and that is your idea of your partner. But

that's not who your partner is. Right. So, going through the process of having to dissolve all the stories and all of the ideas of Will that I've built around those stories, right, the thing that Will and are learning to do is be friends. Right, Because you get into all these ideas of what intimate relationships are supposed to

look like what marriages are supposed to be. So will and are in the process of him taking the time to learn to love himself, me taking the time to learn to love myself right, and us building a friendship

along the way. So let me tell you that's been something to be married to somebody for twenty some odd years and then realize I don't know you and you don't know me, but also realizing too, there's an aspect of yourself you don't know anything, And that for me was the biggest relation I think for for Avinger, she's had a consistent role in this marriage while I was

trying to figure out what my role was. And that's not just in the marriage I'm talking about as the man I have been forced into intimacy over the last four weeks. And when Willow said you can't spell divorce without COVID, what what I think is that I don't think people are wanting to divorce because of these four weeks. I think truth is being presented and we're finally revealing and and being revealed for who we actually are. So there's a distance between who we thought we were and

who we actually were, and that's where the is. And so for me, I can be honest to say I didn't understand all of the value and the gifts that that my wife carried. Even if I could sympathize with her, I had not empathized. There's a difference between sympathy and empathy. One is like, I feel sorry for you. You're doing a great job. The other is I'm putting myself in your shoes. And I had never stopped to say, what does it mean to be a wife, a mother, an

executive who's doing all these different things? And for me, I don't know how to stay. I would travel a quarter of a million miles a year, so for me, I knew how to leave, not stay. Anything you said trying to understand advent here the wife, the mother, you know all of the hats that I wear, but you neglected to say just the one and first you said all of those things. You see me as the wife, you see me as the mom, you see me as whatever it is that you need me to fulfill at

that moment. And I think the hardship that comes in marriages, the tension comes in because you have not reconciled that we singularly have so much value without all the other titles that we wear. I'm figuring that that's what was happening, is that you felt like John can only see you as the wife, as the mother, but couldn't see your value just as you as a woman. I often think sometimes we kind of fall into that as well as like we can only see them as husband's I know,

I've I've had this issue. Is like, no, your husband, your provider, you're this, and you're supposed to take care of me like this and like that, and so I could only see in that little box and not really see the value of will outside of all the little compartments that I needed him to excel in for me. Building things together is actually something that is super hard, and in this quarantine life, it is super hard. This is intimacy, just being able to get to who our

loved ones are beyond that which we have perceived. MICHAELA, this is I mean, we've been here several times, Yea. What kind of communication can happen between a couple to help them see each other outside of the roles that have been perceived. One of the first things that we have to always remember is that when we need somebody, we don't actually know them, and the first thing that

kicks in is our projection. Often all right, then that comes at moment when the honeymoon wounds over where you suddenly realize, oops, you are married to an actual person, not to the figment of your um imagination or fantasy, right, And the hormonal cocktail wears off, and the bonding hormones are not so strong anymore, and suddenly they're looking at someone and they're not who you thought they are, and

they have bad habits and you have bad habits. And at that point usually people throw children in the mix, so then it becomes even more complicated. You know, ten fifteen years can pass, and then they come to an impasse because they're no longer the people they were when they first met. You have to, on occasion bring the relationship current and sit down and go, who are we now? Have our values changed? What's the bigger picture? Who am I? Who are you? Are we still the people you were

when we met? The answers always, almost always no, I always say in a relationship, there is one partner, the other partner, and there's a third partner, and that's the relationship itself, which uh has a dynamic and at some point the dynamic of the relationship takes over from the individuals and at that point, you know, it's it's a tough thing because at that point you have what I call the always already listening. You already know partner is

gonna do. You no longer connected to them, the intimacy is gone. Oh that point right there, Michaela. Yeah, that that is so good. You're connected to the idea of who you think they are. Because sometimes you you say, well, I didn't do this because you were going to do that. You don't know. Today I might do something different, but I didn't get the opportunity to because you've already decide how I was going to respond to that. And that's

that's so good. My question for you, Michaela is this, We've had some amazing uh you know how I would say, based on our faith, come to Jesus moments in this quarantine where it was like, huh, the light goes off. But it's because the business of life is not present. So we've had the opportunity to sit with it, to digest it, and to put it into practice. Now, what do we do when life goes back to some sense of normalcy? Where you don't have this forced time, you're

gonna be running in different directions. You But but I'm saying the very real reality of life, returning to the practical, the practical things. What can we do to stay in this place of epiphany, this place of awareness? Not's a very good question. The first thing I think is because we're still in that kind of a lockdown situation. Yeah, yeah, and you can definitely make notes. I don't know that I can afford that. So I got to get this when a kid. And because you had that moment you

know that comes to Jesus moment where you realize some things. Um, you have the chance to now rediscover yourself and each other. Right, So as much as you can treat part of this like a honeymoon, I discover the person that you've just discovered a little bit more in depth. And yeah, you have children and business and all of that. But but imagine that ever so often you have a honeymoon moment.

What makes a honeymoon moment a honeymoon moment? You sit around, you talk a lot, you exchange ideas, you have great plans for the future. You're deeply connected the things we know all we're doing. We're really busy, So that will of course also mean that some old resentments are going to come up. Right, You've got to have trust issues, You're gonna have um things that have never been said. I would say for the time being, leave that aside. But for right now, what you want to do is

you want to anchor the positive feelings. You want to have as much of the epiphany and the honeymoon, the lightbulb moments in your body and with each other, so that when you go separate ways, you have positive memory that overrides a lot of the negative memory. Michael important that right there? Can I just tell you I want to just illuminate that one more time. To take this time to focus on what is going well, what is work, what is working, and strengthen the parts that are working

and stay in those areas. I'm telling you it's a lifesaver. Literally, he said, don't think about a honeymoon. What do you do when you are me and you don't really want to present the totality of yourself Because you don't. There are areas that have still not been attended to. When I got married, I hadn't realize the fatherhood wound, the daddy wound that I had from an absent father, and how that has played into my need to be validated from outside sources. And so I would leave because I

never saw a man provide for the household. So I thought I was doing good by providing for my household. But my wife said, it's not the stuff I want you. But I never saw me as valuable, and so I wouldn't give her what she wanted, which was me, because I didn't think me was worthy of her. And before I can be what she needs, I need to figure out who the heck I am. There's two layers to this. There's what you can do for yourself, and then there's

what you can do for each other. What I'd like for you to do is that you individually sit down and you make an inventory of what is good about you, so your strength, your positive attributes, your accomplishments, your personality traits, UH and that's everything, right, everything that's good about you. And you do that separately. Then you go and make the same list as to what is good about the other.

And then you come back together and the first thing that you're going to do is you're going to exchange lists. Avenger you're going to give him the list of what is good about you and the other way about. Then you're going to sit with each other and you're going to tell each other and praise each other for these things on their list. And while you do that, see how that lands. Because that all kinds of stuff will happen.

You're both gonna go, well, that's not really true. You know that there's things that are that are going to happen that are very very educational. Right, But that's how you start. You give the person across from you the praise for the things that they think are good about you. Then you give them the praise of the things that you think they're good about that, and then you go.

You can go back and force and that will be one of those things that opens your heart to each other, and more importantly, even it will open your own heart towards yourself. That part, I will say that one of the things that MICHAELA has taught me we really do have to work on our personal self worth in order

to have workable relationships. I think that a lot of us look to other people to make us feel a certain way, to buy us up in a certain manner, and we really have to be able to come to the table to know that we are worthy of love, because I know for me, I've just learned that I am learning how to love the people around me as

I'm learning how to love myself. The reason why this conversation is so impacting to me is because as a man of faith, what what sometimes happens with a theological construct is that we think that our higher power will somehow fix it all. And sometimes prayer is not enough. Talk to somebody that has walked through things that you don't know. I need this because there's some areas of unattended manhood that need to be addressed. You know what,

Thank you guys so much. We're gonna have to do a follow up show after the car see to see what gains you guys have made, because this was really enjoyable. We can physically have you at the table we want. I don't want to sit at the red table. I want to touch the table. It was good talking to you guys, and you know we over here rooting for you for sure. You so much. Love so MICHAELA. There's a lot of pressure happening right now. How do you

think men and women release that stress differently? Good question. In the olden days, man had very different roles than women, so our biology is somewhat hardwired for survival in different ways. So man tend to get into kind of general seal t mode. Often they want to make sure that they are the best providers they can be, and that can look like hoarding by all the pripping equipment. They can get quite sharp and quite hard at times because they're

essentially in an army situation in their own body. They might get a little bit more controlling than usual. They might get really controlling or get downright horrible and nasty. On the positive, and men typically cope by getting things done problem solving. When the stress level rises in men, because of the way the body is, will get very narrow focused. They focus on something and that's what they

want to get done. In women, because traditionally we have to maintain pregnancy and pobu nation and rest feeling and all these things, what we do when the going gets tough is we want cards. M Yeah, so we want carbs,

want comfort, want nourishment, cuddling, um. We want to gather everyone around, make it so uh that we are protected, can keep the things that are important to us going we're a lot more relational, while men get more operational, and that yelf causes a huge problem in the situation like this, Wow, our next married couple has come to the red table with their quarantine struggle. Hasien and Gerard,

what's going on with you guys during this time. Well, everything's coming to the surface and glaring in technicolor, and in this quarantine, we just start responding to it differently. And there are moments where I wasn't sure who I was even married too. I totally get that. When the CDC put out a notice, and I mean it was

way before quarantine, the kids were still in school. Gerard's sort of like booted up and put on his like gear and like it was like I'm going to buy supplies and groceries, and he got like really intense and serious. I work in healthcare, so I know how bad viruses can get. I think I was probably the first panic.

Shop was definitely the first. So I geared up, went down to the grocery store, got two grocery carts and just started, you know, putting in lentils and rice and all the stables, shelf stable stuff that you could pretty much live off of for a month for a family of four. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best was my motto. So I just came home with a ton of groceries and uh, I think my wife thought I was nuts, well because the kids to panic. Our

twenty year old was like, dang with the receipt. He was like, we could have bought a car, you know. And then my ten year old was like, Mommy, is everything okay? And I'm like, God, We're gonna be okay. And I'm like, everybody, stay calm. But like, when you see these parts of your mate, how do you not see them again? No, it's very good. Well, yes, the thing you can't see it, but you can't reframe it. Somebody else who is not in your mindset has a

totally different relationship to that. I'm listening to this and I'm going, damn, I want him at my house. He is actually doing the thing that he's built to do. He is supposed to make sure that his family has sustenance, and he's a great provider. This is just one extension of being a great provider. That's what a great provider does, make sure that his family has what is needed. If you don't phrase it as panic, and everybody got nervous

and we don't want to live in fear. But say, we don't have to live in fear because we have Gerards. He's gonna take care of the stuff that might be an issue. And then you have refriendsed that and you can look at him and go, I am married to a great provider. I'm married to somebody who cares about his family. And he went out there and did things before the going got tough, and that's really really a positive thing. You have a guy at home who can

take care of business. So that's how you can rephrase it. Instead of assuming the worst, you assume the best. You know what, MICHAELA, I so love that that the idea of reframing it, because you're right to have someone like Gerard gives the family the ability to not have to live in fear, you know, And that's a beautiful way to look at that. I love that. I'm gonna use that. You know what, Gerard, you keep being um that fears

provided that you are. That's awesome. A couple of thousand had like an elk over my shoulders coming through the front door. I love it. Well, thank you all for winning us. Next up husband's Alex and Zack from Miami are cruise industry employees, but due to the coronavirus, are now working from home. My name is Zack and my husband name is Alex. We are now working from home in the same space. And that was a very dramatic switch for us. I've been working from home all day.

I like to have that alone time, you know, a decompression time. And from my side, I figured, since we're working all day, why not was full in the evening together maybe or to movie together and maybe cook something together. So obviously our expectations are different. How are you We are so used to traveling and being away from each other, and all of a sudden, you know, we got stuck in together twenty four seven. So we went from not seeing each other very often, being able to handle that,

being able to be used to that too. Now suddenly we're on top of each other every day. But I enjoy a little mean time our social guys. So I love party and I'm a life of the party. But then at the end of the night, I enjoy above the better andrew that the time. So from my side, you know, a more different in personality, are more introvert, so I'm not necessarily the one that goes on and red night. What we're trying, what I try to do, is and spend some time together. So we obviously probably

show love and affection enrollmance in different ways. We're trying to see how can we bring that together. That is a tough one. You can really here in the both of you. You have great love for each other and you have a good thing going, and suddenly all the things that have made the relationship work great are gone and here you are. So there's a few ways you can handle it, right, Because this is a bit like ground talk day right now, you know, you could just

take alternate days. Right. One of the biggest markers of long term success in relationship is generosity and generosity not as in giving each other gifts, but giving each other acts of generosity. How I would go at this for the two of you is I would alternate days, and then whose every day it is? The other one will generously make that happen. So one day, whoever wants to cuddle, you know, is going to pour the bath for the other one and actually give him the time away and

say I poured your bath. Here's your beverage of choice. I'm gonna put some music on, I'm gonna go away enjoy, and then the next day you're gonna go I found the movie Come, Let's sit together. And so then that way, you're not in the I'm not getting what I want. I'm not getting what I want. So you're gonna give each other the thing that the other person wants. You both get your needs met, but it's not just getting

your needs met. You're actively engaging with each other from a place of generosity and love and giving, and that's ultimately going to make your relationship much stronger by the time you go a party. That's beautiful. That's really beautiful. That should just be in practice anywhere exactly. That is a great suggest Wow. Thanks Alex and Zach. I hope that works out for you guys, because I'm telling you we're gonna put that into some practice. Over Please let

us know how you're doing and stay safe. Okay, all right, goodbye. Wow. I really like that. That was great, So MICHAELA. And closing, what is some overall just wisdom of how couples can make it through this quarantine. Communicate your needs clearly, Yes, your partner cannot read your mind. MICHAELA. Yeah, yes, you know it's so important. If you have a hard time doing it in person, write it down and send it

to them as a text or something. But you must be self responsible and communicate what you really I think that is like, that is the number one thing for me that that is really important in relationships is communicating but also recognizing that it is not my responsibility to know what you want. It's your responsibility to share that with me. In order to keep peace and harmony, you better just look at you. That's the only person that you can change. That's the only person that you have

control over is yourself. If there's a problem, it's typically with me. Yeah, Like I have to look at me. And I think that's a great term MICHAELA. Self responsibility because I do believe that in intimate relationships, we tend to believe that there's this there's this kind of underlying understanding that I don't need to be responsible for myself because if you really loved me, then you would you know, you would know how to love me, you would know

how to take care of me. You wouldn't know how to make me feel good, right, And it's a very it's a it's a deeply false, romanticized idea, so that that idea of self responsibility is imperative. I just want to thank you, and we'll have to do this again as well, but actually have you here with us, I too want to touch the red table. But thank you so much. You really this was this was a very healing table today. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you. To join the red table Talk family and become a

part of the conversation. Follow us if facebook dot com slash red table talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.