Help Us find Missing People with Elizabeth Smart

an awareness should be continued for everyone. Everyone. I want to ask everyone to help all the people that are missing and need help. It's on all of you, everyone that's in this room, to do that. Then if you don't do that for other people that are missing, that's a shame. That's it's not just Gabby that deserves that.

I thought that was such a powerful message And what I have to give them props for is that in this devastating moment for their family, they had the strength, the courage, the compassion to think about others who were going through the same thing, who didn't have the same amount of tention as Gabby. They're using the memory of Gabby and this opportunity to shine a life for everyone. I have to be honest with you, I don't know if I lost one of my children in that way,

if I would have the wherewithal to do that. So when I saw that, it really touched me. I think I think I would be consumed with my grief, you know what I mean. We have two very special R t T guest hosts coming to the table to fill in for Willows on tour with her band. First, we have Eliza bit Smart. Elizabeth was at the center of one of the most terrifying child abduction cases in history.

Kidnapped at knife point from her bedroom at the age of fourteen, Elizabeth endured pure horror at the hands of her captors, who claimed to be religious prophets. Elizabeth was forced to drink alcohol, raped daily, chained to a tree, and starved. Nine months later, Elizabeth was spotted just miles from home and miraculously rescued. Now, Elizabeth is a married

mother of three beautiful children. She uses her incredible story of resilience to spark hope for families of the missing, and fights tirelessly to be a voice for survivors of sexual assault. That's welcome Elizabeth Smart, Hi, welcome the seat. This is quite a moment for me. I'm getting all choked up, but I remember, yeah, story absolutely and all of us rooting for you to come home, and you did. When you see stories like Gabby's, how does it affect you?

In Gabby's case in particular, I mean, I was alive and I came home and hers tragically has not ended that way. But knowing what it's like being on the other side and potentially what may have happened and what may have led up to her final moments, and understanding probably a lot of what she was feeling, it's heartbreaking. Yeah. Did you always have hope while you were gone that you would be rescued or I always wanted to be rescued? Yeah, I don't know that I always had hopeful. It was

some pretty dark times, for sure. I just cannot imagine what. Yeah, you know, to have your child go missing and yeah, and then you're like you're not getting the help that you need to find them. My parents always said the

worst part of having me gone was not knowing. I was not knowing if I was alive and out there or if I was dead and actually when I was being taken up into the mountains that first night that I was kidnapped, I asked him if he was going to rape and kill me, and if he was going to do that, could he please do it fairly close to my house because it was important to me that my parents find my body and know that I hadn't

run away. And so, I mean, when I think of Gabby Petito, when I think of all of these other victims, I feel like they still deserve just every bit as much to be found so that their stories have an ending as well. Atly, No, I just be let's get you some tissue. Can Oh this is too much? Yeah, it's okay. It's just very very powerful having you here. Really really it's very very and for you to be fourteen and to have that in mind, right that, yeah, to say, you know, if you gonna do anything to me,

just please do it close to home. So my parents, No, I didn't run away. Once you came home, how were you just able to heal? Things? That made a big difference to me was certainly having my family around me supporting me. I mean, how many victims are there who are kidnapped or abused by their family? Others, the very ones that are supposed to protect them are the ones

hurting them, and that sense of betrayal. First of all, we shouldn't compare what we go through, but it makes me feel like I'm so blessed and I'm so lucky because I was kidnapped by a stranger. Also, even the support of I mean, my community, nobody has really ever questioned whether I was kidnapped or whether I ran away. No one's ever really questioned did bad things happen? I mean,

everything that I've always said has been accepted. And how many victims, how many survivors are not believed You're right? I think I think of that either. And I think that honestly makes the difference between being able to move forward and have a healthy life or bottling it inside

you and then being on a different trajectory. I'm so happy that you are here with us and really using your voice to help amplify voices of people will come from marginalized communities who might not always get the same amount of s as you got or definitely right, and and I want to say that I believe that every single person deserves to have attention in regards to being missing so this is not an either or situation. And

I want to be really clear about that. When I think of all of the people, I mean so many, so many whose stories never even see the light of day. I live in this field every day and all the time I hear stories I've never heard, and they're They're not just like brand new stories of ten minutes ago. There are stories of five, ten, twenty years ago, and I've never heard of them. Someone is missing, Like, are they any less worthy? It has any less of a

whole been left because they're gone? No, Like there's somebody I couldn't agree with you more. Are you still in therapy? Did you get a lot of there? Because I mean, I'm sure it's a lifetime that I understand, it's a lifetime of work. I mean, just day after I got home, UM, I was taken to a children's justice center and I was brought into this room with these two psychiatrists, and um, I was just told that I had I had to tell them everything that they asked me. So in my

mind that meant that they were there to help. I wasn't sure why I was there, and so I went into the room and it was two men middle age older. On the way to the room, they opened this closet and they're like, you can choose any stuffed animal you want. And I just remember feeling condescended to because I was like, I'm fifteen, Like I just survived nine months without a stuffed animal. I'm pretty sure I can survive whatever is

going to happen next. I honestly just immediately shut down because they were around the same age as one of my captors. They were both clearly religious, which I mean, bravo for them, wonderful for them, But in that situation where I had just come out of nine months of being abused and manipulated by someone who was trying to use religion, um, that just made me feel uncomfortable. I grew up a very sheltered life prior to my kidnapping. I was a very young, fourteen year old, was still

very innocent and very naive just growing up. My parents didn't just refer to penises and vaginas and when they were your privates and you just you don't. We didn't really talk about them. And so then as these two psychiatrists sat there and they're like, okay, so what happened, And I'd be like well they hurt me. And they'd be like, well, how they hurt you, Well they have molested me, Well how they molest you? Well they raped me.

Well do you know what rape is? And I was like, well, yeah, he like forced himself and me, and I'd be like, could you use the correct body like the body parts and so so I finally had to get it down to he physically forced his penis into my vagina repeatedly, and I mean that was terrible. By the time I left, I just knew that I never wanted to speak about it with anyone ever again. I didn't want to speak

about what happened. Um. It was explained to me that the two psychiatrists were there because they were getting my testimony so that they could stand as proxy for me in trial. I didn't realize that, and so I just knew they were psychiatrists. So I thought it was some form of therapy, and I just thought, if this is what therapy is, I do not want it, and I refused. I refused to have therapy, which of course panicked my parents. So they went and saw a therapist and the therapist

was like, it's fine, take a deep it's fine. Let her make this decision. But you need to be prepared because ultimately you both will be her biggest therapist and you need to be in a place that you can handle that. And now that I understand what therapy is, yeah, could have been useful, but I just thought that it would be going back to every dark moment of my life and I didn't want that. So your parents really,

well they were huge. Wow, So they got the help that they needed so that they could just help a guy. That's beautiful. You're a mom now yourself, Elizabeth. You have three children? Yes? How old are they? Six? Four? And my babies too. Oh, that's beautiful. I would imagine they had a little young to know your story. They are young, But I wish I could claim this is advice that I came up with. But someone told me that as soon as your child starts asking questions, that's the right

time to start talking to them. And actually, when one of my captors was coming up for parole and I was supposed to go down to the prison that day to go give a victim impact statement, and my daughter, my oldest, she didn't really want me to go, and so she kept asking me, where are you going? Why are you going that moment, I was just like, dang it, I guess have to take this advice, not like she's asking questions. So I started talking to her. But it's

not in graphic detail. When mommy was younger, there was a man who broke into my home and hurt me, and now he and his wife are in jail, and I'm going down there to make sure that they stay in jail. So that led us talking about having the right to defend yourself. It's amazing that you can even let your kids out of the house, honestly, because I swear, yes, I think I'm overprotective. And that's where my husband comes

in and pulls me back down to earth. I mean, everybody teaches you what you should do if you catch on fire, to look both ways when you cross the street, and thinking back on my exact situation, nobody really tells you what you should do in that situation. I mean, when I woke up, there was a knife pressed across my throat, like a little bit more pressure, and he could have just killed me. I don't regret not screaming. I don't regret doing what he told me because I'm

still alive. Yes you are, and I don't know that I would be had I not, because I do believe that he absolutely was capable of killing me and then maybe taking my sister or killing her to So I don't regret it. You just mentioned that you had to face your captors. That had to be just difficult and heartbreaking. Ryan Mitchell, he will never get out of He's in federal prison. People, there's no chance of rule. Wanda Barsie.

She she has been released, but she served the max sentence that she could and there was no option for recourse. They had to release her. So that is what it is. How did that make you feel disappointed? But I think it also helped me have a greater appreciation for I mean, how many victims never even have a smidgen of justice there? Perpetrators walk every day free. Yeah, like Ailee, I got something. How many more? Haven't? You really are a beautiful symbol

of hope. You're just such a beautiful representation of that you can get through. Thank you. Yeah, it's really it's really nice to be in your presence and feel that joining the table is Laura Coates, seeing an anchor and senior legal analyst and radio hosts as a former federal Prosecutor Laura spearheaded cases of domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault. And there's a powerful voice from missing persons.

Oh my goodness, I was trying to hold back. Were trying to call it together, so it wasn't just me. It broke my heart. They just can't think about how many people, how many children, are wondering are they enough for somebody to look for me? It is a massive problem. I mean every nineties seconds, you know, a person disappears, a person goes missing. Just in the time that we been sitting here chatting, there's people who have already gone missing.

I live in fear about my children. I've become very overprotective. But then I don't even think it's over protective, it's protective, participrotective. I remember when I almost lost my son in Costco and I turned in a blink of an eye and he wasn't there. And I remember the panic as a mother, the sheer terror, and I remembered sprinting towards the door like a crazed woman. I mean, I was like, lock the doors. Get it's a little boy. It's a little boy, He's my life. They did it, and they seemed to

have some protocol. I don't know if it was. It was called what was it call code Atom, code Adam after you know, I never even knew what it what it was. You going to like Walmart or wherever, and they have a sticker and it says code Atom. It's in case your child disappears in a store, they will lock down the store and no one can come in or go out. That's impoor. Yes, that's important code. And wow, my sons was playing hide and seek and a tent dance set up right where I left him. As a

legal expert, what have you learned from Gabby's case? You know, there is this really symbiotic relationship that has to happen, right, the idea that law enforcement and a suspicious public and the family and the media, all this has to come together in this little perfect storm. Because what you saw and why we even have the video footage that we're seeing a Gabby Petito and whatever altercation occurred between her and her fiance is because somebody saw something and called

the police. See something, say something. I don't even know what it is, but let me let me call someone about this. Here's the van you're just going on, And of course we are seeing what may have been some of her final moments, some weaber final days that may have experienced, but it gives some insight. There is this video from some of the body cam footage of the officers when they're talking to her that reminded me of when I would prosecute cases of domestic violence and what

you would see. Oftentimes are so many assumptions that are made, so many stereotypes that you don't even know are undermining the investigation or the pursuit of someone's safety. Okay, do you have medication for anxiety? You take, but you tend to have a lot of anxiety and stress. And what's his name, Brian? Is he usually pretty patient with you? It just makes me up, said, I know that he's definitely a speciated with me a lot because I have

a lot of excrety and he definitely anxiety. My girlfriend's really really calm, but my ex wife swatching my ex wife. I'm just sharing that. Know that's a little person, But to help you understand, we would feed off each other's anxiety and with spiral, you know, it doesn't matter how much I loved her, And maybe a bad for your soul if you know you have anxiety. Look at the look at the situations you can get in. Is there some my new cheek? Here looks like did you get

did you get hit in the face? Kind of looks like something like hitting you in the face and then over on your arm, your shoulder right here, there's that's new, hun, don't have a new mark. I don't know did he did he hit you? Though? I mean, I mean, it's okay if you're saying you hit him, and then I

understand if he hit you. But we want to know the truth to be actually hit you, because you know, she seems like alway, sweet girl twenty two or something has a lot of anxiety, and from what she's claiming, she's the full on aggress root here. We'll go see what Brian saying. But do you want to come stand in the shade speaking? Yeah, I know how I know this. I know I know the struggle. From when I first got here, we were more worried about what kind of

a guy you are. From what we heard I'm talking to your girlfriend, it sounds to me like maybe this is not the tough. Wow, there's a moment when something clicks in this officer's mind hearing she has anxiety, and something clicks and oh this is what this is. Oh this is what this must be. Its anxiety, and it gives premarrital advice. Its plains to her, Well, you know, if you have this sort of toxicity of two people with a similar mental health state, this is the kind

of thing that happens. As if whatever was transpiring is the expectation of things. Then from Matt he draws a conclusion. He goes back to the fiance makes a comment of see, now we didn't know what kind of guy you were, but now that we know, this probably changes the calculation and these decisions that officers try to assess in this sort of split second moment makes all the difference. In that moment, it probably likely changed the course of history. The idea I know what this is, I know what

this is. But can you prosecute without a willing victim? You absolutely can't. And you know how it's like a myth in law and order. You here, do you want to go forward? I don't want to press charges? And somehow everyone says okay, never mind any reality. It's like, oh that's cute. I don't really care what you'd like

to do, and here's why. While we want people to have choices over what's happening, if we have an independent witness who can corroborate something, if you have an eye witness, if you have somebody who's told the police something, or you have video, we will pursue because we have to. The problem is, just like you saw it with a Gabby Badto case. Sometimes the person once law enforcement gets involved, Yeah,

they suddenly think about the consequences. They think themselves and love this person and I know what could happen or I hit him first. Mm hmm. Yeah. I always say unapologetically report. Yeah, They're a shame that people carry. And I've had victims who have said I don't want this. I said, okay, that's fine, I will be the bad guy. I can even subpoena you so that when it arrives at your home you can make a big production and being subpoena like the authors, roll up, you have no choice.

Here you go. It's a protective mechanism. Officers sometimes will do that. You were talking about the people that captured images in the Pepito case, because I had a circumstance very recently that was with my husband and we were in the car and there was a couple on the corner sitting on the bench, but there was obvious discord between them, and they were young. It didn't look right, and my husband thought that I was being nosy. I was about to like roll down the window and say

are you okay? But they seemed to work it out and they started holding hands and they walked on down the street. But it's that kind of stuff that you never know. First of all, you should be nosy. Nosy saved lives. We have responsibility as women, I think too, in particular to have that are you ok sis, And I think it's so important having the public being involved, because that's how you were rescued. Was actually a few different people who all called. I think it was like

in less than five minutes. I don't think I'll ever lose my faith in humanity because everyone kept their eyes open and just simple phone call to the police ultimately led to my rescue of my homecoming Can you take us back, Elizabeth? And just kind of remind us of that situation. My characters had taken me to southern California for the winter. Their plan was to kidnap seven young girls. I was just the first, and they actually made several attempts while I was with them, Thank goodness, they were

not successful. But after the most recent attempt that they had tried, list said well, it's time to move on. I was like, this is my chance. So I convinced them to return back to Utah and we hitchhiked. We were making our way up State Street in Salt Lake City, which is a pretty good sized street. He kept telling me that once we got up into the mountains, they were never going to let me down again. But at

that point in time, I didn't even care. I was just happy because physically I was that much closer to my family. We were just walking up State Street when it was like police car after police car after police car pulling up and officers jumping out and they started questioning us. Initially I didn't just respond and say yes,

I'm Elizabeth Smart, please help me, please save me. I wanted to bring that up because so many people, so many people over the years have been like, well why didn't you or if I had been you, people are bold much to say that to you or on social media, like I could pulled my phone right now and I could like I'm sure in the first ten messages, we could find something saying why didn't you, or you had

every chance to get away, why didn't you? And I want to take a second and say that I didn't immediately yell or scream or admit who I was because for nine months, no one could protect me from them. Because for nine months, he raped me, changed me up, did whatever he wanted to do to me, and there was never anyone there to protect me. And I didn't know these police officers. I didn't know what they were

capable of. I didn't know if they could protect me, but I did know that my captor was standing so close, he was right next he's physically touching me. And the other captor was so close, she was physically touching me. And I knew they were capable of killing me, and they threatened me with that every single day. So I

didn't immediately scream out. My goal was to survive, and I didn't know if I said something if I would, but I knew that if I did what they told me to do, that there was a chance for me to survive. So even in that moment when it looks like that's so easy, that was nine months of manipulation and grooming, and it wasn't that easy. It wasn't until I was separated from my captors that I was able to admit who I was, and just the idea that

a woman was a participant. We are trained when we're younger look for someone who can help you, and the expectation is if I'm being harmed, a woman will have this maternal instinct that they will be able to help you in some way. And the evil of that as a woman, it's just it's enraging. And you were so brutally honest about what I think so many people, Elizabeth, who are likely in your same circumstances that it must have been hard to cling to just the hope that

someone was looking for you. Still, yeah, and you can imagine all the people who try to exploit the idea that no one's going to look for you, women of color in particular, who if there's not the coverage, if there's not the attention, if no one thinks that anyone will look for you, you become a target. And now you are somebody's perfect pray because I think no one's going to look for you, no one's gonna miss you.

We've got some families that we're about to meet um, but are holding out hope in regards to being able to find their loved ones. Daniel Robinson went missing four months ago. This is the last photo of his family has of him. He's a twenty four year old geologist, last seen leaving his job site and Buck Eye, Arizona. His overturned jeep and belongings were found in a nearby ravine. His parents, David and Melissa, need our help. It to give you an opportunity to tell us about your son, Daniel.

I had a moment when you showed me his future. Yeah, just looking at him, it's so difficult. You want to talk to him and you want to hug him. Daniel is my hero. Just reading his text mm hmm, telling me how he feels about me, leaving the very last message on June, telling me how he loves me. Hey, Mama, I just wanted to see how you're doing. So I just want to let you know I love you and yeah, we could talk later, all right? Oh wow? And that

was the last time that you heard from him? Yeah, David, When was it that you guys decided that something was not right? I received the phone call from my daughter. She all learned me that one of the co brokers came by and were searching for Daniel. We're getting any of answers to his phone. They said he was um last seen at his job site, uh, roughly nine o'clock that morning. And I just knew all immediately that things weren't right because Daniel he whenever ever ever, um not

answer his phone, first of all. And the second thing is um not tell us where he was going, right. I think that's really important because that the idea of patterns. I'm really big on that, even with my children. With David is basically saying is that a pattern was broken, and so he saw immediately that this is out of character. Right, something is wrong, And that's so important for police officers when they start to investigate these cases. One of the

first questions to ask is it was this normal? It's something he would do, because the thought is maybe just not calling you. There is this tendency to say one, just give it a little bit, right, you're right here from him. He might come around, but it's got to be this is not like my son, and you are the one who knows your child to have them understand no, this was out of the ordinary. David, is it my understanding that you've relocated to Arizona to lead the search

for your son. Upon putting in the miss a person report with the Buckeye Police Department, they said it's gonna go out search the next following morning because it was too dark. When I called in and U uh once that morning came in a council and alerted me that being that my son has grown, he's an adult, UM, he's allowed to leave. UM. When I heard that, that was unacceptable to me. So I grabbed everything I could and I just started driving. I made it out here

and I've been here since June. I'm searching for my son. We're gonna find Daniel. Was it difficult to get the police to just take seriously that Daniel was missing? Yes, even from the first day. Uh, you know, we know our son and and um, you know, it was very out of character. Things didn't add up. It was very difficult just to even get movement. They did their first search for my son, which is three days later. I haven't gotten any any any support from the police department,

I mean nothing. We have been fortunate to uh get our own cadaver dolls and search dogs. UM. Even the aircraft drones. We've been on it. The search is um phil of volunteers, and difficulty has been getting media attention. And I stayed up many nights, uh email and testing, calling, visiting, whatever it took just to get something going. Um it lass for three months, three hard months. David, you actually hired your own investigator. Right. You're saying the word we,

but this does not include the police. You've had to do this independently, right, That's correct, That is correct. I say we because everybody who come out through the searches we're family. That's my standard. Family. We put long hours out there and hunted eighteen degree. Whether they're dedicated people, um the things that we feel. I feel, and and my son's mother. It is the things that the people that serve and protect should be doing. We found ourselves

doing it. When you talk about the searches that you've been putting together, how were you able to do that? I didn't know anyone when I hit the ground here. I didn't know how to get involved. I never organized anything in my life, So I just reached out to end and everybody I could. What I was trying to do is find people who actually knew about the desert conditions it when you found the car, all his belongings were inside the car. Correct, Well, it's a rancher found

our son's vehicle. And that was on July nine when I received the call. It was nine o'clock that morning. The next day after they found my son's vehicle, the first thing the detective said to me was, hey, Mr Robinson, we found your son's vehicle. That just took my breath away, thinking that maybe I'll hear something else horrible. I'm gonna tell his mother. I said, Okay, when was it founding? And he told me it was found the day before, And I ask, okay, why do you guys didn't call me.

We didn't want to disturb your sleep. That that made me uptight. My son clothing, everything he had on his body was about three ft away from the vehicle, and the pal um he said, the best that he wore the day he went missing was another foot away. Um. His cell phone was in the vehicle, work computer, it's while it was in the in the pants pocket and the pal um. Hm. I know it's difficult for his mother here this excuse me a moment. One of the things that struck me the most you know my son

is on the twenty four years old. They attached their phones. I know they are and I couldn't see him leaving that behind. Exactly what did the police tell you as to to explain? Did they get offered any theory of the case whatsoever to try to find him? Yes, they gave me all not too great of a theory. When I got out there, a little detective give me a briefing. He pointed out to my son clothing on the ground. Uh. He pointed out the vehicle's damage. He said that the

vehicle flipped and rolled and landed on the side. He told me that there was no blood found in the vehicle, UM, indicating our son UM wasn't injured. Uh. He said that he's wearing a seat belt because of the way the seatbelt locked, so he know the seat belt was on. All the air beads were deployed. He told me that my son honestly escaped out of the sun roof and

that he must have had a severe head injury. He was delusional, decided to take his clothes off because head injury make him hot or something out of the other Um, and he's walked off and probably rested on a tree somewhere, and that was that was his theory. I think we're all dumbfounded for a moment, trying to think about all the things that do not add up about this. But I keep looking at mom. Yeah, I'm just thinking about

what every mother sees talking about their child. I know he's twenty four years old, but you don't see a twenty four year old. You see the little baby. And you're hearing these things. What are you thinking? When his father first told me that the vehicle was found, and then they started talking about could have a dog, I just cream and I just couldn't believe this can't be realized. I was feeling like I'm in a nightmare. I was on the floor. I cried. His father kept saying, a listen,

it's gonna be all right. I'm gonna find our son. I'm gonna find him. I promise you, I'm gonna find him. I said, I just want him back. I didn't even know what to pray on how to pray, and then I had to just change that prayer as I want him back safe. The thoughts i'll running rampant in my mind. Now. I'm thinking the very worst thing that someone is hurt him, my son. I'm seeing him crying out for me. I'm just seeing these things that he's just really needing to say.

Helped me. I started dreaming about him and my mom here, my mom over here. Hurry up. Yeah, Daniel, please listen to me. I'm talking to you and saying mom here, yeah, here. I need to find them. And it was heartbreaking to just go to his apartment. Yeah, maybe be very heartbreak. I had to pick up the little hairs off the floor and put them in a ziplock back because Lisa knew that was a part of him. Right, That's all

I had. But one thing I want to really say to Daniel is is definitely um not a person that's depressed and down. Uh. He's high spirited, have dreams, and that he's a contributor to society. Day is a scientist, very smart, very shocked, and we just want them back home. We're just going back here with us. We just we wanna just give uh prayers to you, our love and you know we are wishing you the best in this

That was so difficult to hear. What his father said at the end, I want you to know these contributed to society, tells me almost immediately what so many families, particularly families of color, have to endure talking about how to get people to value the investigation to find their child. It's not even subtle. If what stereotyping looks like, it's

just not adding up, it's not adding up. I don't think there's anyone in all the millions of times that your episodes get watched that could say that any one of these families is any less worthy than any other family had their case pursued, and any less worthy than anybody else myself included to come home. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. To join the Red Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us

at facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.