Grief and the Truths We Keep Hidden (Cheslie Kryst recap)

oh my gosh. I cried through the whole thing. We heard from the mother and stepfather of Miss u s A. Chestlee Christ, who died in January after taking her own life. It was beautiful to hear from the mother, especially about the wonderful person that Chesley was. It was beautiful. It was difficult, you know. It was kind of one of those bitter sweet moments for me because I was celebrating how amazing she was, how accomplished she was, how she had achieved so much, and meant to see that the

underpinning of that was this depression and this pain. And it wasn't the first suicide attempt. I mean, so many things were impact in this episode. The answers that we all needed and the clarity that we all needed. It definitely had me looking at the thing a different way. You know, I've had my own suicidal thoughts, so I had to sit with myself and think hard and deep about some things and talk to the Lord. And I am grateful that I was able to come to a

very good place. Therapy helped me a lot. I was able to find what I needed, and I just wished Chesty could as well. For her mother to be really clear that she had issues that were consistent, that it wasn't her first attempt. Hearing that right off the back for me, I was like my jaw dropped. I was like, wait, wait what this wasn't her first attempt? And you don't

hear about that. No one publicizes that, right, No one says, well, you know, this amazing, beautiful, accomplished person attempted suicide yesterday, and so maybe we need to have a conversation about that. You're so happy that the person overcame it. You just kind of moved past it, right right. I just well, you know, it was a heavy episode. It was for me, It wasn't like a sobbing cry car that I had

through the episode. It was the silent tears stream because I thought of all the grief and the sense of loss. I mean, you think about it. This woman's life touched she had so many ripples, Chesley Chris. I looked up to her. I mean, of course I want to be a personelity and just watching her journey, she was such a great reporter. And when her mom said that she does things like you know, well, you know, I'm I'm living, but how are you? I immediately was like, Wow, who's

done that for me? Like? Are these the things we need to look for when we say check on your strong friends. I don't think it would have stood out for me if my friend said, well how are you? I think I would have been so happy someone asked about me. You know, I just hey, I'm not realizing that it was a deflection. Wow. And the way that April was so honest and transparent to share, you know,

her daughter and her loss. Thank you for being thankful and sharing with us that you have had that experience of being suicidal and reaching out and getting help. And I'm grateful that you were able to get the help you needed. Car, It's just I had to wonder if you had a friend, because you mentioned you were just kind of masking it. If you had had a friend that said, hey, Car, are you okay here? What would you have said in the midst of that at the

height of your feeling suicidal. I truly had to work through that. The problem was I had similar to Chesty. I pushed people away because you don't want to be a burden, even if it's family. You don't want to hinder them. But yeah, I can look back at my journey, I see that it was just a breakthrough point for me because that's when the career cheerleader really was at the height, like I really described, and started to really bring that out for myself and who am I? And

I found myself. But I feel like some people can't, and uh, suicidal thoughts came in like a it was like a spiral. I described it as like a flooding of thoughts. Luckily for me, I was able to research and read and get therapy and stay in therapy for a while and change therapists and found what worked for me, and I hope others can do the same. But it's just not that simple for everyone. I read that people don't really want to commit suicide, they want the pain

to stop, and that was my exact situation. I wanted the pain of that situation to stop, and I felt like I was helpless. That gave me some insight that it wasn't that you necessarily wanted to end your life. For you, now I'm saying, it was that you wanted to end the pain and it felt like there was a no way out situation for me. That's what it was. After I had those thoughts. Not long after a coworker did commit suicide. That's when I was like, wow, how

did that impact you? I was frustrated, concern because we were the happy people in the office. So again now, not even realizing that high functioning depression was a word at the time, I was traveling for hours a day for work and doing what I thought everyone else did too. They may have, but it's okay to say I'm not okay. Yeah, so yeah, this episode, hopefully we'll save a lot of people. I am so grateful that we are keeping it really,

really real. Some stuff this is not for fun, This is real, and the stuff they talked about it the Dangna table is real. Deal, real life, real table time. This is not fluff, This is not pump, this is not circumstances. This is blow your nose, babe, because you guys not running down a lot of it. Right. It's time to hear from our amazing community. We asked them, when they've experienced the grief, what has been the best way that people have supported them? And here are some

of their answers. Tracy, kick it off, you know what? Come on here, I am kick it off. Seven. Gainwood said, listening and praying for me can never go wrong. You want to be heard and you want to support. I love that. Shout out to you. Caroline Richard said, it can make you better or better, So remember the best times you had together and pray for strength and blessings. Amen being present, sharing good memories and helping me move on from Isola right more Walker, Yes, indeed, Izola being

present that is so important. Facts Tyrell Morton, he said, even though it hurts, you gotta learn how to let go. I love that it's accurate. Gotta learn how to let go. Wow, heartfelt acknowledgement of my right to grieve in my own way. Yes, Dianne feeling cooked. That's important. People have so many expectations about what you should be doing when you're in your grief process. You can grieve your own way. There's no right or wrong. I can't wait till we talk about that.

Shadow work, which is a type of therapy gratitude, journaling, and meditation. Shadow work helps you understand the triggers. Gratitude and journaling shifts your daily habits while also allowing a space for you to be unfiltered and brain dump. Meditation helps you to calm your mind, since your nervous system,

and breathe through the difficult times. Thank you, Gabby Garland, I know she is from Red Table Talk r v A. We appreciate that we have had some fantastic things that help and give me time and space to grieve without letting their discomfort with grief keep them away. Maggie Evans, that is so true. Thank you so much for that, Because you know what, people don't know how to deal with you. They don't how to engage with you and interact with you when you have griefs. They don't. They

really don't. A lot of people treat you like your a leopard, or if you're not grieving the way it makes sense to them. Then you're not grieving, you know. And I'm guilty. I am guilty. When my grandmother passed away years ago, I asked my mom, like, why haven't you cried? Wow? But everyone cries in their own time. I was young and just trying to have things my way, ch'all. So that's what you learned, and you do I learned.

I definitely learned. Shout out to our Memphis Sister Friend Red Table Talk comments and to our r v A group as well. You guys are amazing and we thank you so much for your input. We're going to take a quick break, but when we get back, we'll be joined by two incredible guests from our Red Table Talk communities. All right, everyone listen. We are bringing to fellow URTT community members to the Virtual Red Table. Tracy, kick it

off and tell us about your guests. It's my absolute pressure to kick it off, especially with this Red Table top. Memphis Sister Friend, Angie Castor is a hairstyle is here in Memphis, and she's unless Red Table Dad to share about the loved one she recently lost, including her brother and two cousins. We are so honored you are willing to share with us. Welcome, Angie, thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't wait to get into it with

you and talk to you. Today. I want to introduce you to a Red Table Talk r v A member, Dr Shantel J. Chambliss. She's actually the second member of the group and she's joining our virtual Red Table from right here in Richmond, Virginia. She lives with her husband and their nineteen month old rainbow baby Ryan. The Greece chesty Chris mom shared over losing her daughter is something Dr Chantell understands all too well, as she lost her

son and delivery a little over six years ago. Dr Chantell is currently co writing a book about healing, and today we're grateful you are going to share about your journey with us. So welcome, Dr Chantell, Thank you for having me. We are going to start things off with our weight what segment We're gonna share Which moments made us pause, rewind and listen again? The wait what moment y'all? When April chest Lee's mom read the final text, I

cry almost every day now like I'm in mourning. I've wished for death for years, and I know you would want to know and want to help but I haven't wanted to share this weight with anyone. That would have been tough to ree. Like just the first sentence that part right there, I was like, oh my god, to have wished for death for years, I mean, yeah, that was tough. Definitely had to rewind on. Now. Do y'all think you would have chosen to share a final text

from a loved one for her mom? I would have. Yeah, yeah, I had to agree with that, especially later on when she started talking about all the rumors surrounding her stuff and how people are asking them to like open murder investigations. I think it was important for her to say I am okay with knowing that this is what happened, because Chesley told me this is what she was gonna do,

right right. She said that she has closure with her daughter's death because of what she said in the message, So she knew her mom and she knew what her

mom would need. I'm glad she shared it, Especially when it's a public figure like this, we all feel included and we all feel like we want some closure too, So it was appreciated that she chose to share it, and I think I would have shared a final one from a loved one to Also, I can't imagine the amount of people who are suffering from that level of depression. Now everyone understands what that looks like, right, Because that it was like somebody was saving me in my chest.

It was raw and gut wrenching, but it really put a lens on it. I will say that on the one hand, for me, it was like, oh, my goodness, don't go back and reread this, don't go back and revisit this, and just open that tender spot. That wound won't heal. But then the other side of me was thinking, you sharing this and your transparency in this, and you being able to open yourself up and really be vulnerable.

To share this kind of intimacy with the world is a gift because it will make people look at their family members and understand that if they're suffering, that even though you love them, you won't be able to love them Away from this that was a white one. Let's go to the next way. What which kind of is along the same lines. You just never know what burdens

people are carrying. Gammy said that during this episode, I do hope that opening up these discussions and just talking about where Chesley was or state of mind at that time. Hopefully encourage people to be kinder. You just never know what burdens people are carrying. GAMMI nailed it. I concur on that completely. How do you guys feel you don't. That's why they say be careful how you treat people,

because you never know what someone is battling with. Like her mom said, like y'all seeing her on TV, she's smiling, she's always happy, but deep down she was not happy at all. And I'm like, dang, so you can fake a smile, boy man, right to look at someone so beautiful, so accomplished, gorgeous, at that level of accomplishment for her to still carry that heavy of a burden. How could we ever look at anyone and think that they don't carry any burden? Yep, absolutely, that's so true, because how

much more accomplished could you have me? She missed America? Like what? And you think about When David, who was chestly step dad, shared about his experience with the street singer she passed, I had kind of latched onto a couple of Adele songs and I had a moment when I was up there by myself. I went and visit her favorite cupcake shop and soho, and there was a street singer singing one of these Adele songs. I was really emotional and I sat there and oh man, he

he was such a good singer. He said, you know, I'm gonna take a break for a minute. And I thought to myself, man, I'm sure you wish he would sing that other song. And God walks up to him, says something to him, and he says, I've got another request or another adule song and he sing that song. Wow, and that was I was just moved. I cried through the whole whole epith you know, listen, I love a so okay. It could be from a color to an insect to a song. And he signed, is always a

comfort for me. Yeah, what kind of signce have you guys experienced? Angie and Dr Chanel. I lost my brother two years ago, a little over two years now, and his favorite holiday was Mother's Day because he got a chance to really show out and show how he thought he was the best child. So he always went above and vielding. So when we lost him, it was pretty hard. It was very, very hard because my mom worked the most with him, because although he was the most boyled.

He was the most worst them. So this particular Mother Day this year, my brother's and we went to back and body works with my mom loves candles. So we get to the register and she's ringing us up. They asked what's your phone number? And I give them my phone number and they're like Mario. It's like, no, ma'am, my name is Angela. So she was like, do you know Mario. I was like, that's my little brother and

I'm at the register like tears just flowing. But I was happy with that moment because it was a sign that he was saying, hey, sis, I'm still here. You know, this is my holidays. It's kind of like, yeah, still my holiday. And he's such a jokester. He was such he was the light of our friend. He's such a jokester. So it is. It was sad, but it was also a happy moment for me because it did connect me back to him and say, hey, he's good and he's still Mario. And I was like, hold on. I talked

to little girl the register. I was like, I think my brother's been still in my points all these years. That's still in my point. Get the discount. That's still in my thirty So even though it was a sad moment, it was it was a great moment because his spirit is still with us. That's a sweet story. That's really sweet that he was like, yeah, you maybe getting twenty campbells, dog go on, but my name is all over. Dr Shantell. What about you? What kind of signs or experiences have

you had? So so many, but one that pretty recent. So when my son passed, a girlfriend of mine took one of the ultrasound videos that we had taken of his heartbeat, and she took it to build a bear and she put the recording of Jaden's heartbeat into a bear. Now, my daughters, she's been screaming and crying since Thursday with these teeth erupting. Yesterday she went in. The bear is

sitting on a bookcase in my office. She goes and gets this bear and she's like dancing and singing in and going my baby, my baby, And I'm like, wow, he's conforting his little sister, and he is. This girl has no interest. She has a like one whole side of her nursery is nothing but teddy bears that people gave us. Ryan, don't touch those bears from the moment she was conceived. I have known that he is watching over her. That's awesome. She probably communicates regularly with when

she's in here, and she's just like randomly gibbering. I'm like, that's what she's talking. I just know what they're talking about. Even in the midst of the content that we're discussing, we can still find the highlights and getting able to remember and to be able to laugh and find joy in the memories. That's such a gift. You're right, such a gift. Taking it back to the episode is our

next way? What moment? You know when April talked about and shared that Chesley had that pa functioning depression, depression is not always marked by someone laying in bad or unable to do things. And you know there are people who are high functioning who can get through the day because they were the face I know personally I have experienced it too, just reverence myself and being strong and somewhere about COVID, I was like, you know what, rest

sounds great? So how can you all relate or do you have any experiences with any high functioning depression, whether it's you or a family member. This episode resonated so deeply with me because whereas I may have never had thoughts of ending my life, I know how it feels to be accomplished and celebrated and in the back of your mind you're like, I still wasn't enough, and it doesn't light you up the way people think that it does.

It's sometimes very lonely, especially with black women, right because with these accomplishments comes in poster syndrome, which is a it's a side effect of this half function and depression. Right when she was like listening all of her accomplishations, she said something that like really stuck out to me. She said that Shellley never had anybody issues, Like she was very confident in her skin, but when people make

fun of her age, it broke her. And it's like, wow, this woman who's so super confident, but like these little pebbles get thrown at you and they make you question your whole existence. And I experienced that half functional depression sounds better than it is. If I could go to other way, maybe I would, because sometimes you wanna go crawling the bed and put the covers over your head because it would be easier. It is exhausting. It is draining to function at a high level when internally it

don't feel high. Listen, I just feel like women of color, black women, we are busy were we are. We're trying to find our own goals and dreams. Were trying to support the black men and our family, trying to praise black men in some instances. We are at the same time dealing with grief as well, which which really brings us as to why we're all even here to really dig into the themes of this episode. Now that you said, wait, what,

we want to hear more from you. So Dr Shantell and Angie about how you personally really connected with this episode, Let's kind of tap into that and talk really Let's let's go ahead and dive deep into who our guests really are and and while you're here, how did you truly connect with the episode? What was maybe your impact point of the episode for each of you. I was on it before my brother passed, and and since he's passed, I have really been on this self away Kenning journey.

His passing prompted the opening of my salon. I mean, it pushed me into areas of thinking that I couldn't do it, into knowing that I could do it, and for Mario to die gave you newfound pursuit of that answer. It opened up more questions to myself because for years my brother had been telling people I had a salon. He would tell his girlfriends that I had a salon so that they could come. He wanted me to do all his girlfriend's hair. I don't have to do everyone's hair.

Cat now, wait a minute, Hold on a second. We got another way. What if the girlfriends Mario because I love him, but he was a homeless god love it. She was like, he wanted me to do all of the girlfriend's hair. I was the sister, so I didn't agree with everybody, so he would get the okay by sitting them to get their hair done. Like you like your did you? What did you think of? You wanted the seal of approval okay right when he left here, and that was just a goal of mine. You know what.

I'm getting it not only for him, because it was something that I really wanted. I just didn't think that I could do it. My brother left here with so many goals. He left here with so many things that he wanted to do, And how dare I take my life for green and I still have the opportunity to get up every morning and complete my goals and do things that I want to do and do things for my children. So I'm gonna continue to reach and do

what I can until God calls me home. It's so interesting to me to Angie that you have positioned it and the way that you say. You didn't say how he died, but you use different ways to say that you lost him. He's left us. And does it make it easier for you to reframe the loss and the way that you say it. Um, yeah, because I think for me and and and everybody's different. Because how he left here is it was so violent. It makes me angry.

So in order for me to heal, I had to figure out how can I do this and not let my kids see it, not let my sons, you know, not let them see me fall so deep. So that's why I try to stay on the positive end of it, because if I did think about that part, I would be angry. Chantel let me ask you because you know, and I mean, I love that you're both here today

because it's like two completely different perspectives. And what I'm hearing is like the loss of of someone by the hands of someone else, right, yeah, my brother was killed, right, and then just the loss of someone just through natural means. Channel, do you want to hear more about your experience and Jaden and what that means, because how was the experience

truly for y'all? Don't think I've ever really heard you share, and you know, hopefully maybe you want to share today, honestly, like losing a child the way we lost Jaden so unexpectedly, um so drawn out. I think that is a huge part of our husband's and trauma is that we knew he wouldn't survive, but it took almost sixty hours for it to happen, and all we could do was laid like literally they had me almost strapped to a bed, right.

And so I will say, because society minimized the way my son died, we began to minimize like maybe we shouldn't be grieving so hard, maybe we shouldn't still be so sad. But my favorite was, well, y'all can have another baby. Go into a delivery room to deliver a child and don't bring it home, and watch how you feel when someone says I'll just have another one. It's not a freaking sandwich. Right when you your sandwich girl, going there make another sandwich. It's not a sandwich with

this this high functional depression. Because literally April has given us all something to really resonate and a and a and relate to. Of course, six years ago, I didn't realize that that's what it was. Immediately I jumped right back into work. Right I was still in corporate America at the time. I was like part time corporate, part time entrepreneur. I didn't go back to my corporate job, and I would say almost I had to threaten to sue my corporate jo because they wanted me to come

back to work in three days. What the what they said, I had a miscarriage. They considered it a miscarriage and that they would just give me the regular bereave men time. And I had to fight to say that I labored for fifty six hours. I only got to hold my son for about two hours. I'm not coming back to work, and if you'll make me come back to work, I will have every government agency in here ripping you all

a new one. Oh my gosh. And again, like I said, society minimizes Neo NATO DUFs right, when a baby dies in the hospital, it's really minimized, versus if I had left the hospital with him and we had gotten into a car accident and he died for some reason, that would make his death different. And so the societal norms, and yeah, these norms really start to influence how you

treat yourself. And so what I did was, even though I didn't go back to the corporate job, I jumped right back into my Busin this, I was like in the process of renovating a building for office space for my business, and I'm like at the construction site, like I'm still I still got pregnant. Bet, I'm out of the construction site. My milk came in because I gave birth. So I'm walking around and gorge and with frozen cabbage on my breast, but still working right and still welcoming

guests into the house. And the final straw, someone came over, A group of people came, a group of girlfriends came over, and they brought food and cake and all this good stuff. And I got up. I went into the bathroom, but not to use it. I went to just sob and my husband came and found me, and he was like, we're not doing this. We're not doing this. And so that was the last of the visitors. We went away to really take some time to just cry, just process,

just lay into wallow. We don't believe that we are allowed to wallow. I am allowed to wallow. I am allowed to cry. I'm allowed to stomp and kick and have a tempera tartrum. And we, especially black women, don't believe we're supposed to do that. And so it's that was the first I want to say. A couple of weeks was really a balancing act of trying to manage how I really felt versus how I thought people thought

I should feel. Yeah, were you in a position where you felt like, if I just keep going and have some sense of normalcy and just get things done, I'll make it through this. Or were you just pushing through so you wouldn't have to think about what you had gone through? Funny you, actually, Tracy, I think a lot of people who saw me, even car because she knows me, probably thought I was pushing through to not have to deal with it, when really I was pushing through because

I was ashamed. I was ashamed on so many levels. I suffered from a few things that cause infertility. My son and my daughter was conceived through I v F, and so there's a level of shame that comes with that needing assistance to get pregnant, right, And then there was this level of shame that while I got pregnant, I couldn't bring my baby home, and so there was

all the shame associated with it. So I almost kept going so people could go, she's still so accomplished, she's still getting stuff done, successful, she's still taking care of business, so that no one could say, oh, a girl can't even have a baby, right, was shame that kept me going. It wasn't trying not to think about it. Because we are ten days away from my son's sixth birthday. It doesn't go There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about it, right, So it was never

an attempt to not think about it. It was really to make sure that people didn't focus in on what I failed at. I wanted them to say, oh, Shan

Tails still getting it done, she's still doing it it. Really, it really was a deep, deep shame, and it's why when I watched this episode, the pain in my chest because I think about Chesley, and I'm like this, this girl was suffering all these years, and that's why she kept accomplishing and accomplishing and accomplishing and accomplishing, because she never wanted anyone to see her inability to be able to manage her emotions, her inability to be able to

function quote unquote normally. Right, So let me just keep accomplishing stuff so that nobody ever sees this. No one ever has to look beyond the accomplishment to see the pain and suffering and the reality. There is no wrong way to do this thing, Okay, whether it's life, career, raising kids, having kids, there's no wrong way. Like our

journeys are so individualistic, just so unique. If we really did normalize that more, which is why I'm so glad you're both here to share your stories, more people would be set free. I know this episode set me free as well. Like you all said, we're all looking up how function and depression and just trying to understand another person's journey. It's just not black and white. It's not

black and white. And you know, to Chestle's mom's initial point, it wasn't the first attempt right for her mom to say that, so definitively, and to share that so openly and freely with us was also a way for her to be very transparent and clear that there was no murder investigation required. Here's what it really is, especially for people in the community of people of color. Hello, let's wake up and see that this is a real issue

and we need to acknowledge it and address it. Uh. In corporate America too, like she has like I am so, I am upset over here, like I don't know what it is, the need to just some things up with the statement. You know, she had a miscarriage, Like you said, sixty hours of unmedicated labor. I'm gonna go further. Wasn't sixty hours? Several months? You know? This was stop? This is my life, you know what I mean? Well, I mean, here's the thing, car. The reality is that it is

longest old white men regulate and create policy. Who don't have to bear children, deliver children, give birth, to go through a gestation period or have milk come in and having gorged breast and walking around with a period pad on this from the front to the back. They don't care, They don't know. Let's be honest too, though, when it comes to grief, especially in the black community. I don't see any men we're typing up the program, were organized the paperwork, you know what I mean? In my family

at least just talking about the whole grief process. You know, not only did you both go through it, as my family is, we're very involved in the funeral process. You know, I gotta gather cards, read the cards put together. They were put together, the ceremonials. See what I mean. As men who are making these policies and rules, they're not involved in the in between parts anyway. So not only do you not understand childbirth, do you understand grief? Do

you understand that family? Because they're you know, they're they're high functioning depression to a lot of men are I want to understand, So tell me more about what you what you're saying, and the emotional peace, Like the emotional grief is not just crying, you know what I mean. Like as we all are aware of somebody passes away, like especially if they are close to us, the hardest seven days of your life. It's not just the funeral you gotta get through, it's the planning leading up to it.

And that's what I'm saying for people to just miss it in one phrase, as sure, oh she had a miscarriage, Oh she lost her brother, as if this is something I can quickly tumble and get over that. That's not how it works. I get that part. There's a missensitivity. It wasn't clear about the male part and the grief. That's That's what I was saying. Tell me more about what you mean about that. You know, how do families work.

I know with my family, when someone passes away, the females come together, whatever females at the head of whatever piece of that family is they handling all paperwork. They I just don't I see, I don't know where the man that Honestly, when I'm thinking about it, at the head of the table. I guess, you know, not to minimize the male's role, but as women were just not allowed to grieve and still have to execute certain things at the same time, that opens up a good question.

I'm glad you shared that. So Dr Shown Tellson's you and your husband both had this pregnancy and both had this experience of the delivery and the loss. How was his experience? It was minimized? It still is, And to be honest, and I'll tell anybody this. I often think my husband grieved harder and longer and deeper than I did, honestly, like just a piggyback off what car just said, the

actual event of death. The women take care of everything, right, and so a lot of people just assumed that he didn't want to pick out the headstone for Jaden and more everyone came to me. It was like I had had this baby by myself, conceived him myself, and he was just afterthought. But it is because with most things I managed the household. Grief. Death is an event of the house, right, something that happens to this family. And so because we managed the family unit, a lot of

times we tend to not check on our men. My husbands tend to have their arapy. We've had to have couples therapy. Jesse's experience was something I had never witnessed before. When the doctor came into the room to tell us that there was only about a ten percent chance that Jaden would survive. At that point, we had been together like twelve years. I had never seen him so hurt. I had never seen him crying that way, and it was jarring for me. And then he felt the need

to apologize to me because he wasn't strong. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll keep crying. Oh my word, that's society. Go back to those society and those out of societal norms.

And again it was that shame when my best friend and my mom came, like they said the nurses were outside talking about him, about how bad he was crying all right, because he was like passed out on the floor, like almost had to give him smelling salts, right, and then if it wasn't affected, they would say he was cold and uncaring and there's no way for him to Jesse couldn't win. It was a no win situation and that's why it's like they feel how you want to feel.

And then again his grief was minimized because he has other children. She has children from previous relationships. But you have other children, what does that mean? Audacity? But you know, Chelsea's mom said something about that, about how like she was bleeding but she had to hurry up and like be mommy. Feeling the way I felt and watching my children are it's almost like I'm bleeding, but I need to do trias with my children. They still need their mommy,

But mommy is hurting she did. That happens so much. And you know, there's something that really struck me in this episode, which was April sharing about how while she was processing her own grief, I mean that was her baby, she was still having to care for the family, support them and how they greed. So it's it's amazing how like you said that, there's some tation right for the mother, for the woman, for the maternal instinct to kick in

for everybody. Angie, what has it looked like for you and your family as the communal grieving process, for your brother and for your two cousins because you lost two cousins this year. Yeah, our family has gone through it this year. I've lost four cousins within the last four years, but I lost two cousins last month. And for my family, I'm so sorry for your lost First of all, thank you.

When I first heard about the initial first cousin, and it was almost identical to my brother and the idea that we hadn't finished grieving, although he's been gone for a little over two years. But it's you know, I just don't know when that grieving will end. It's getting better, it's it's lighter. I can see his laughter. I've chosen to think about beauty of his personality than the sadness

of how he left here. So I hadn't finished grieving before I heard about the first cousin, and it was just kind of like I was known and people and the family was just kind of like, oh, Angela is not responding. I didn't know what to do. I was just kind of like, oh my god, we're here again. No, I'm just now getting to a point of mental clarity

with my brother, and here we are again. The way that I'm dealing with grief now because of what I've learned with how I dealt with grief with my brother, I've learned to look at it from an opposite perspective. And so the family was kind of looking at it still like devastation. We need to go, you know, hunting for these people. And it's like I've learned a different way to grieve, y'all. So for the family was kind of at war a little bit at first because they

felt like I was being you know, callous. Oh, we was all doing this for your brother when he passed. But I've learned a different way to grieve. To this day, I still have some cousins that give me the side I but I love them. I wasn't willing to let anyone, not even family, take me back be either come with me. I'm not gonna come down there. I'll be here when you need me. I worked too hard to get to where I was, and and I still just the thoughts

of losing them now. I still have my moments, but I grieve the way that that I choose to gree Well, thank you both for sharing that. I mean that listen to perspectives have just been amazing. I mean, these stories are going to change lives. People need to hear this. I'm constantly talking to my son about a lot of things,

and mental health is a big one. He's had his own issues while he's growing up, but now that he's a young adult and listening to Chesley and like as we tapped into those accomplishments, I'm realizing I need to talk to him more about his mental health and that connection of just because it looks like a failure, just because it looks unsuccessful doesn't mean you are. Doesn't mean that you have to sit there with that pain. There

are things that you can do. Are you guys having those types of conversations with friends and family as far as mental health and just Greece in general. But I've been trying to do, probably not having as many end up conversations as we need to. But what I've done now is when I call a friend or message a friend, before I go into what's going on with me, the first thing I do is do you have space for this?

What I realized is when I asked that now, people are very honest about do they have space and what's going on? And so I think no one ever expects to be asked that. We're also used to pick it up the phone and somebody going I need this. And so before I even start, I'm like, hey, do you have space to talk? Like mental space, physical space? Time? And I appreciate it when I received it in return,

because it gives me. It gives me permission to say not today, like I know, and the next ten to twelve days, I'm not gonna be a lot of good to anybody. I'm getting very close to my son's birthday, and his birthday is also the day he died. It's like a double edged sword, right right, And so I know I'm gonna be very appreciative of someone just saying do you have the mental capacity to listen? And the

answer maybe no, and that's okay. One thing I noticed about April she didn't have one regret, right, and then Chesley confirmed it, like, Mom, you did it all right, You did it all right. You were always there, even when you didn't know I needed you, you were there. And so she doesn't have any regrets. And this episode makes me go, I don't want to have that regret. So Car applaud you for having those conversations with your son because they are scary, because I ain't gonna lie

stuff happens. We just we're scared. We're like, oh lord, we can't of words. We're gonna open today and then we're dealing with our own stuff. But definitely want to have more conversations with our children about this. That's good. And you have three boys, what are y'all talking about? With mental health? We definitely are on that topic a lot because I have learned so much. It's my duty to make sure that I'm not just making sure eye heal because when we lost my brother there, you know,

that was their favorite uncle. My oldest son, who is two, he has his face on his arm. He has a big tattoo of his uncle's face and his nickname with Shine. We all have Shine tattoos. Having that conversation with them was a muss because they are boys. What we've had to experience with our young men within the world. I had to have that conversation with them and letting them know that it's okay to be emotional, because we teach

our boys that it's not okay to be emotional. There's so many things that you both have said that resonate with me and this episode and the fact that your family Angie has tattoos of Shine, and your oldest son has the tattoo of his uncle, and there was their favorite uncle, and they have memories that you guys literally have on your body so you won't forget. April shared that she feared forgetting the aspect of her daughter, you know, the things that were special to her, and has passes

that they may fade. But Jada said something really impactful. When I was a young woman in my early twenties, I lost a very close girlfriend similarly the way that you lost your daughter. I will say that the memories may not stay burned in your mind, but the thing that never leaves is the love. Has that been your experience, Angie, Yes, it has. Tears are good. Tears are good. That was one of the things that I've when I first started agreement and just learning how to deal with it. I

didn't want to forget him. I didn't want to forget him because time was going on. And I remember the first time I forgot it was the second anniversary of his death, and I almost forgot the date, and I was like, oh my god, I almost let that day get past me, and I was so hard on my Luckily, the spirit brought it to me, but came to me just in time, because if I hadn't missed it, I really would have been feeling some type of way. But those things, you know, my tattoo and and my boys,

those are things that helped me. I think about his crazy personality, what some of the goals that we had planning to do together because he was supposed to be my mating, this man for the salon. You know, I don't have to worry about ain't no walls because he was supposed to been doing that. Right, thinking about those kind of things and kind of taking it that way where I know now even if I did forget the date.

Even if I did forget his birthday, I look at things from a spiritual standpoint now and his date is gone. He has a new date now, he has the spiritual date with God now. So it's okay if I may have missed, you know, those days, because I celebrate him every day, and just just like with any holiday, we celebrate mother's days, not just for Mother's Day, we said for mothers every day. We celebrate each other every day. So it's okay if I forget a birthday or his

death date because I celebrate him at free Day. Come on, it's maintaining the connection and you're talking to him in spirit, and that that's beautiful. Dr sad Tell, April and David shared about how grief can reappear suddenly and sometimes because of different triggers. I know you even have the whole, this end of the rainbow, which is beautiful, and I know you help other people in their journey, but I

know triggers, you know, are part of it. Where do you consider yourself to be now on your grief journey? Some days I feel like it's still day one, and then sometimes I feel so far removed, especially now that my daughter is here right, and she's literally when I lay eyes on her, I realize why they call them rainbow babies. Joy that you thought could never ever return to your heart they bring back right. And she looks just like her big brother. They both look like My

husband looks just like her big brother. And so it's a very weird space. Like there are days when I'm so happy that I didn't know I could be this happy, because this baby just it's like so amazing. And then there are days where I'm so grief stricken that I don't even feel like I deserve her, because Jaden should be here and they should be together. The triggers come from the weirdest places. When I found out I was pregnant,

I was so overjoyed. We went through eight rounds and failed in betro between Jaden and Rotten right, and none of those were really triggering. But the first trigger once I was pregnant with Ryan was a family member who attended Jaden's funeral asked me, was I going to name the new baby Jaden? And I lost it. I lost it. It was like my body transported back to that hospital

room on day one. I lost it, and I didn't get it back for a while, right, And so it's those little triggers, or like little things like I I can barely remember names someday, but put me in a room with kids, and I can tell you which boys are the exact age my son would be. Right now, I can look at a kid and be like, he's about to be six, isn't me? For a few weeks after I had Jaden, I was in the grocery store and a girl was there with a new born and

I was like, when was he born? And before she could finish it, I said around about June thirteenth, and she was like, yeah, because that's exactly the size my son should be. Like I had this, Keen say, those are the triggers. Now, it's like the what if? They are so intertwined with all this immense joy that Ryan brings, but it's still there, and people really think that rainbow babies erase what came before Jaden was still born. Every failed round up in betro is essentially a miscarriage. Those

eight failed pregnancy still travel with us. Even though she brings this a miss joy, there's an immense amount of grief that preceded her that is still here and so it's literally I live a daily balancing act. That's where I'm at now. Just know that I am sending you amazing amounts of love and energy and light. It has just been the most amazing, as car would say, successful time with the two of you. Dr Shambless and Angie, thank you so very much for spending time with us.

This episode was just it was hard, it was heavy, but it was so needed and necessary right. It was just a gift to all of us. And I just appreciate Jada and Gammy and Willow being in a place where they could give us this opportunity to see the vulnerability and see that there's an opportunity even in the midst of pain and sorrow and grief, that we can learn and still grow. So thank you all for sharing

with us. Absolutely, we dug deep. I'm so glad that we had the chance to go dive deep with you ladies. Thank you so much for coming to this virtual red table. What an amazing raw discussion, like powerful, So grateful to our guests for openly sharing because they were amazing. We're gonna take a short break right now, and when we return, we'll share our top five takeaways from this episode. This is the most fun time car Are you ready drop bro? Please ready spots Bob, Let's go. I love it. Tracy

and Carr's top five thoughts. Listen, y'all know this is the part of the show where we speed through five thoughts slash takeaways from the episode. Let's kick it off. The number five, Tracy. Number five, you can't always see external proof of internal struggles. Oh that's a deep one. Let's get it. Number four. Everyone's grief can look different. Listen. We talked about that with our guests. Honor where people are.

And you know what I have learned to say, Cara, when someone is in the midst of grief, I just say, honor how you feel and honor where you are. You know. Number three, check in on your strong friends. We're all taught to wear masks. You really just never know when someone is experiencing high functioning depression. This is new for us. This is new, and I'm gonna actually make a task to actually dive in a little bit, not be invasive. But normally I'll say you know, you're good and people

say yeah, and they kind of keep going. We're gonna just ask again, and I want to annoy you. I want to make it weird. I want to tell you I love you too, because we just gotta ask before it's too late. Write listen. I used to a lot of people all the time, and that you know six successful. That actually came out closer to my time with the whole suicidal thing, because I was lying saying I was fine. So I started to say I'm feeling successful because success

looked different every day. So that's where that definitely came from. Number two. Even if it's a loved one who was struggling, it doesn't mean that you've done something wrong. Chelsea's text to her mom said, you've done nothing wrong and you've done everything right. I think that was probably the biggest piece of closure. She knew her mother needed, so that was beautiful. She took her captive heart and released it. Yes, there was no room for doubt. She had it in writing.

It was something she could see and read and now she can keep. That was hard, though. That was definitely a number two and number one caa you don't have to hold on to grief to remember those you love. That's it. That's the one I mean, that's the truth you don't have you can hold onto the memory reads.

Thank you for our guests, because they gave us some great memories about their loved ones that they have lost, and I'm so glad that they were able to hold onto those memories, because some people may let it go or choose to feel like they can't focus on the happy things because it's not a happy time anymore, and that's not true. We want to know how you're feeling

about this new season of Red Table Talk. We are open to talk about just about anything with you all, so sending your questions so we can talk about them right here at our virtual red table at Let's red Table that at red table talk dot com. Thank you so much for listening. Karen and I are grateful to you, and we want to make sure that you subscribe on I Heard Radio app and please rate this podcast on Apple Podcast. We need a five. We'll be back next

week for another episode of Let's Red Table. There a big thank you to our executive producers Jada P. Kitt Smith, Ellen Rackinton, and Falon Jethro And thank you to our producer Kyla Knee Ruth and our associate producers Maria Della Rosa and Yalanda Chow and Finally, thank you to our sound engineers, Calvin Bailiff and Devin Donahee. We love you guys. Thank you