Colorism

we had to put those particular episodes in a vault. Well, now we feel like we can share them with you now if you see us close together, that's why. But we love these episodes, and our first one is colorism. And this is a subject we've been wanting to bring to the Red Table for a very very long time. So now we are on this Red Table Talk. This is like the secret, the thing we don't want to admit. Colorism. It's discrimination or prejudice based on skin tone from members

of the same race. It began during slavery. Owners often raped their slaves who gave birth to light skinned children. They were given preferential treatment. Lighter meant better, smarter, and more beautiful. This hateful bias seeped into black culture and continues to divide us whether you're dark, light, or in between. The complexities and conflicts within our own race when it comes to the shade of our skin are devastating, deep rooted,

and affect us. All. This red table is devoted to our beautiful dark skinned sisters like my lifelong friend Mia and her daughter, my niece Madison, who are revealing the deep wounds caused by colorism as she got darker. I was like, oh, this is a problem. Wow, my grandmother, she definitely did not like dark skinned people. I've gotten buoyed one kid in particular, he would always call me like blackie, And we confront our own preconceived prejudices right

here at the table. They're gonna put you in a light skin fair category. You consider me fair? Yes, the conversation is really going to be intense. Maybe it's a new thing, but I definitely feel like nowadays, like in the dating world, dark skinned girls in particular feel like they don't get as much absolutely attention as light skinned girls get. Yes, And I don't think that's new. I think that's that's been the case for years and years

and years. Yeah, I actually had the opposite in my experience kind of being picked on for being light skinned. And also I remember having plenty of conversations with you and Aunt Karen about not revealing other heritage in my blood that it was like, you're black and that's so much about not revealing. It was like, don't get don't get it twisted. Listen. Karen's like, don't talk about it

because it means absolutely nothing. Your black. Yeah, don't let me hear you talking about you got this in your blood. You've got that in your blood. You got that your blood. She was like, it doesn't matter. People think it was because you were trying to be like I'm above this, Like I'm above back in the day, like you know, you would always hear black people, Oh I got empty in at me and all of this and not wanting to be not black, still not owning our own blackness.

And that's just a result of you know, all the brainwashing that has happened over the years that started from slavery, with the perpetuation of white supremacy or lighter skin supremacy. It's true, and it's not with just women. That's the other thing. Then darker skin also have a very very difficult timely. Darker Black men are targeted. Yeah, definitely, that it is for them to negotiate the corporate world, corporate America.

My husband had to do it. My my husband, one of your third husband, I think it was, Yes, your third has been had to deal with that. Yeah. All right, ladies, Well I say we take it to the table. Are you ready? Let's do it? All right? Okay, gam that listen. I know I'm stressed already. I'm stressed already. It's such a sensitive issue. So that you know. This one here, okay, miss me and Pitts is my lifelong friend, okay, And we went to high school together. I did a year

of college with her before I quit. We have lived together several times, we worked together every day, and so she has been a big part of my life for a long time. And Miss Madison here, this is her daughter. We also grew up together like my niece. She and Willow grew up together. So this is family right here. And I really wanted to bring her on to talk about colorism because she and I had several conversations over the years about this issue, so I thought she would

be perfect. I know, it's chocolate thunder, Okay. It was crazy because when I was getting myself together. I was like, oh, this is kind of a plunging uh neck run here. But it's also a part of the character that I created, a part of my colorism issues that I had because I never considered myself beautiful, so I always would go to the other side of the spectrum of being sexy. That was one of the ways that I could sell

myself in another way outside of my skin color. I think it was a camouflage for not having being told that from men, primarily like you're beautiful. When did you start to feel like you had issues with your skin color?

You know? I really I didn't really realize how many problems I had with it until we were dancing with the Knicks and one of my be A friends says, Hey, listen, you know, it's a shame that you're not going to ever be able to marry an nbair an athlete because they're not going to be able to see you because you're so dark. We ultimately choose women that are lighter. And that was said by a black man. Yeah, it's always like, oh, you're so pretty for a chocolate It

wasn't full impact until I had madisone. As time went on, I noticed that she was just getting darker. As she got darker, I was like, Oh, this is a problem because somehow or another along the line, you become inadequate.

And I just didn't want that for her, Like I don't want her to have to have the same type of scenarios that I did, like never being told that you're beautiful, but I unconsciously started putting that on her, like oh, you're such a you're so pretty, for your skin is so beautiful, Like always over complimenting her on her skin and to the point where it could cause her to have a complex, like well, what's the difference with my skin that you're always talking about my skin?

Every time Madison wanted a toy or anything, it would have to be a black toy. If she wanted a white doll, Oh no, no, no, no, we can't get that doll. It's we have to get a doll that looks like us. Like I went on a whole thing of trying to find like all these beautiful black women so that I could just show her the imagery so she could feel good about who she was. Ultimately, I was crushing her with too much of it instead of just allowing her to be who she was without having

to have consciousness on her skin color. Yeah, Madison would have been some of your experiences, well, you know, going to like a predominantly black elementary school. That's why was my first experience. I got bullied in one black kid in particular. He would always say, like, your skin looks like poop and like call me like blackie. And I remember going home to my mom of course, like crying, like what's going on? Like why would he do that? Like why would he say that? And that's like was

my first introduction to it. And then when I transitioned to like a predominantly white school, I was scared because I was like, if I'm getting this from my own community, what am I going to get from this? And I didn't have any issues, So that was really shocking to me. Wow, that is so deep that you were to see all white school basically yeah, and had no issues. That doesn't make sense. When I liked black boys, they never really

liked me back. So I always got that, you know, I don't date I don't date um dark skinned girls. And I was just like, okay, then I would just forget you guys. Then I'll just date something else. And then I kind of got that backlash for that, you know, why would you do that? I'm like, you guys don't even like us anyway, so what's the point the hurt? Of course, and we have those little bit of lanes.

You're like, okay, like I'm not good enough, you know, I'm dating black guys again, and now I'm getting that like appreciation that I've always wanted. I don't I don't know, like what changed in their minds or hopefully because being more confident or me That's what I was going to say that too. That's probably yeah, that you're more confident

you know and who you are, because confidence is very attractive. Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say, I've actually read about it too, that the best way to control a group of people were to really just get control of them, is to pit them against themselves. And that's exactly what colorisms exactly. And that's that so it was all by design exactly. Well, there's a fascinating documentary on colorism that we wanted to tell you about. Skin color amongst the

black community is a huge issue. I used to wish that I can't wake up one day lighter or wash my face and think that it will change. Argie lighter. I thought it was dirt. You're not trying to clean

it off, but it wouldn't come off. Certain people who may have lighter skin try to boost their self esteven to boost their you know, they're self worth up by putting others down because they know that darker skin, I guess isn't considered beautiful, and so they can that kind of puts them up on that pedal stool like saying, hey, I'm I'm more beautiful than you because my skin is fair. Experts conducted an experiment to touch young children's attitude toward

different skin colors. The results were just heartbreaking. Shoot the smart child, and why is she the smart child? Because she is? Why okay, show me the dumb child, and why is she the dumb child? She sat, well, show me the ugly child, and why is she the ugly child? Because she'd been like, show me the good looking child, and why see the good looking child because she life skinning.

A friend of mine had recently had a baby, and I was very happy for her, and so you know, it was my first time seeing a baby and the baby was beautiful. She said, girl, I'm so glad. She didn't come out dark. And when she said it, it felt like a dagger, like someone took a dagger and stuck it in my heart because I was used to expecting hearing things like that from other races, but this was someone that I considered to be my sister as a younger person coming up. White people really made me

appreciate my skin color. Black people made me question it exactly. Now that's deep because Madison, you said the same thing. The hatred of our skin tone is really just the overall picture of the hatred that we have for ourselves. And it's just so deep rooted, you know what I mean, It's just so really deep rooted. Is a real testament to how we feel about ourselves. We all have issues with color, no matter whatside you on, and that's what's

so interesting. It even for you know, light skinned women, you know, I know, just on covers of magazine is always like, no, have your hair super straight? You know, no, you don't cut your hair, you know, And even nowadays that happens online like people saying, oh you light, you think you're cute, you think you're And back in the day, light skinned girls would get ben light if you were light skinned, long hair. We call it getting a bank. You would get banked for no reason, right, and just

think about how superficial that is. Okay, so let's talk about this, right. So if we're in a room full of people that are not black, right, they're going to automatically put me in a dark skinned category, and they're gonna put you in a light skin fair category. You consider me fair? Yes, And here this is now we're going to talk about gammies issues because but it's in comparison, it's right. But my thing is is that it won't

be how you see yourself. It's gonna be how everybody else sees you, right, And I hate to be the very bad news gammy. This is what I had to deal with when I was throwing what. I feel like she had a lot of shame on having different cultures and our blood because my grandparents, with West Indian, we really didn't have an issue with color per se, more so with class. Well, there was a little bit of

it with my grandmother, right, Yeah, she was um. They were from Barbados and she definitely did not like dark skinned people. I remember when I was really little, we had neighbors who were very, very dark, and she didn't want us to play with them, right right. Yeah. So Chica A Cooro is a Harvard and Stanford graduate who was studied and experienced colorism, and she did a very personal ted talk that millions of people watched. Growing up,

I definitely felt the effects of colorism. Guys didn't find me pretty. It really made me feel like I wasn't good enough, like I wasn't valuable enough. The situation came to a head when Chica discovered an offensive casting notice for the movie Straight out of Compton that ranked women based on their skin color. I was outraged. I was livid.

I felt betrayed. Turning her outrage into action, Chica spoke out about the dangers of colorism until subdecide for those with more favorable features light skin, light eyes, long, soft, real hair. Chica, can you explain exactly what you saw on the Straight out of Compton casting call? Yeah? It was so mind blowing. So it split out the girls

from A through DEP so different categories. So there was the A girls those are described as the hottest of hot models, you know, long hair, beautiful, and went to the BE girls those were African Americans. You had to have real hair. It had to be your real long hair, light eyes, light skin. They said Beyonce of the prototype, which blew my mind that Beyonce was not an a girl. She's a big girl. Then there were for the Sea girls, it said you could wear weaves no darker than a

medium skin tone. And then the D girls. Those were all Afrin America. Again, out of shape, poor and darker skin tone. Yeah, welcome to how they would. I'm just so surprised that someone wrote that out on an actual Yeah. I'm just seeing that degradation and kind of thinking, oh, okay, I guess I'm in the D category. But this is like the secret, the thing we don't want to admit that even within us there's division because we don't want to talk about it stays undercover. We're not supposed to

bring it up. The history goes all the way back. Everyone gets annoyed when it say it begins in slavery, but that's where everything begin. That's our history here in the US. That's where it begins. It's unfortunate because it started with the mass rate of slave masters with the female slaves, and so now there's this cohord of mixed race children who have the more lighter skins, right hair, lighter eyes, slimmer noses, like all the different you know,

typic character of sticks. And they're treated better, right, they're given prefrontal treatment, get to work in the house instead of out in the field. And that has all continued even after slavery and just that classifications, separations, and that is how opportunities or acceptance into different social clubs or sorties or fraternities was based on these different features. Like you know, we talked about the different tests that you still see the aftermaths of it. Back then it was blatant.

There was the brown paper bag test. You know, if you're darker than brown paper bag on the club one, on the on the sorty paper bag is you know, craol a brown and so if you're darker than that, you know, there was a pencil test. They run a pencil through your hair. It can't get stuck. I never heard the pencils pencil test would have failed. Then I would have failed that. That was one of the issues for me growing up with my hair. That was just a struggle. It was like it was always a struggle.

I was always looking even like my cousin, like my cousins and my friends, and I alwas look at her hair and be like, oh my god, like like if someone like if I would just be so much prettier, if my hair wasn't so kinky, or you know what I mean, if I had longer hair, and it would always just be such a issue. It all ties in together, the hair sleeping, all that the approximation to white is what is valued around the world. I've heard that you

feel a certain way about the different skin tony emojis. Yeah, you know. At first I would always feel away when I would choose the last emoji right, and then I think it's great that there's all these different emojis. It was a moment for me to reflect on, well, why do I feel away? That he acknowled like, who's to say that the very brown emoji is worse than like so like, wait a minute, like why am I feeling

this way? When you have to really hune in on how you want to look to the outward world, then that's when you really have a chance to acknowledge how you really feel about yourself. So Stacy started bleaching her skin when she was just eight years old and continued until she was twenty five. This is what Stacy looked like when she was bleaching, and this is Stacy today. Yeah, a completely different person. That's so crazy because I've never

really thought that it works. It was a common practice, huh, especially in an island household. In my background. I'm Haitian, So you find out a lot and people from the islands that they bleach, and they see it as you're more valuable if you're lighter. You know you will succeed more. If you're a different skin tone, you will make it more in life if you are not dark. The skin bleaching business is billion dollar business. Skin Bleaching dates back centuries.

In ancient times, lighter skin was a sign of privilege, in prestige the upper class who worked indoors, out of the sun. Many dark skinned people used bleaching powders, paints, or ointments an attempt to seem wealthier or aristocratic. I can remember being in the bathtub asking my mom to put bleach in the water so that my skin would be lighter, and so that I could escape the feelings that I had about not being as beautiful, as acceptable,

as lovable. Go to South Africa today and you will see billboards promoting skin bleaching cream, even in the face of knowing that it causes cancer. Wow, what caused you to even think that? Because at a young age of eight, Like, how did you think that you were not good enough? Then? Because I've always been bullied. You know, it's either I'm this big, dark, dirty girl, or in school, no one wants to work with me because oh she's black, she

might have an adultude, or she's unwilling to cooperate. So I decided to bleach. Do you feel like people treated you differently when you were bleaching? Yes, the boys who were picking on me saying I was dirty, I'm black, are disgusted. I have an attitude problem. They found beauty and this girl. Once I bleached, you know, I was more polite. They see me as or you know, instead of me being angry, I'm just passionate. That's why I'm so outspoken, and I you know, I cashing it. I'm

not angry. You know, I don't have an attitude problem. I just I can talk all day, you know. So yes, people definitely viewed me like I'm more worthy in a way. That and that's an issue with darker skins. We got an attitude got an attitude, but every black woman, I know. But how did your family feel when you were bleached? And how did they feel when you stopped? They were devastated,

like I just committed suicide or something. You know. Up until the point when I was engaged getting married, I was hearing maybe you should start bleaching again because your wedding is coming up and you want to be pretty for your wedding day. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like why are you killing me? Did the bleaching cause any other medical issues? I broke out a lot, I was dealt with acne, dark marks, high pigmentation, but once I stopped, my skin became clear. And so what made

you decide to stop? My husband? Yeah, wow. When I was engaged, I decided to show him my photo album when I was a younger girl, a baby, and he said, wow, you're beautiful. You're so gorgeous. Deep down in my heart, I was so set. I'm like, oh, how can you call that girl in a picture beautiful? You know? And he didn't tell me to stop, but because he found beauty in that girl, in my mind, I'm like, you know, I have to stop. There's no way for me to

treat eat myself. That's the way if my husband loved me, you know, keep on beauty and this little chocolate muffing, you know, like I have to stop. Let's get him around. So when he left, I went to the bathroom and I cried, and I believe that's when my deliverance happened. You know, I went to church all my life, but my deliverance didn't happen at church. It happened in the bathroom, my one on one I cried. I'm like, God, like, how can I be in church? And I'm so insecure

and I have such a bad low sulf esteem. I feel so depressed all the time. But that day is when God literally removed that hurt inside of me. So that is amazing. I really appreciate you guys coming to the table to talk about this. To me, this is just the beginning. This is just the beginning, because there's so much to unravel, so much to talk about, so much towards healing that you know, you almost don't know where to begin and where to start, but this is

the starting point exactly. Thank you, ladies, Thank you. This is great, awesome is great. Hey r t T family, join our Red Table Talk group. On Facebook to become part of the conversation, and be sure to follow the show page to catch up on all our episodes. So my fove when this came up to it, Yeah, you can talk it. Take the day off. It's fine. Yes, you did a great, great fee. I don't know, I don't see. How did dad table talk that? That's too

much worse. To join the red table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com slash red table talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced by Facebook, WHI Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.