Hey there. And in today's show, we're gonna be embracing diversity in modern training strategies. My pronouns, officially long and short. Rebel Traders takes you inside the world of 2 underground master traders who take an entertaining and entertaining and contrarian look at the markets to cut through the noise of Wall Street and help you navigate the trading minefield. Together, Sean Donahoe and Phil Newton are on a mission to give you the
unfair advantage of a rebel trader. And now, here are your hosts, Sean Donahoe and mister Phil Newton. Alright. We we we were skirting along there. Well, we were skirting it, danced upon it, and and kicked it kicked the dirt over it there. We're gonna offend someone today with this show because I just can't help myself. But, I think, mister Phil Newton is here as always, and he's chomping at the bit
as well. He was telling me some funny stories that I won't share before we go, or before we went live here, but we're kind of doing a double duty, podcast today because we're releasing 2 episodes on the same day because we had a little technical snafu with last week's publishing. The recording was fine. It was the publishing and processing that went askew. But, so we're gonna we're gonna drop 2 for the price of 1. It's a it's a 2 for Tuesday even
if this is recorded on a Wednesday. So, Phil, how are you doing, sir, before I go off on a Doing fine. I'm resisting the urge to stop this session giggling like a little schoolboy again. Or is it schoolgirl, school schoolperson, a schoolmate then? Yeah. There's so many so many You started this show. You started this on this soapbox. Don't even get me on this, whole cancel culture, you know, woke soapbox because I should have been canceled freaking years
ago. I don't care about offending anyone was not our intent. I'm just gonna be very clear about that, but we are who we are. We're all farts. You know, we're not part of this whole bloody new gen. We are not part of the Woke Brigade, unfortunately. Or fortunately. It depends on your perspective. I'd say bloody fortunately for that one because I got Fortunate. I'm too bloody
busy to to worry about all that stupid shit. But, anyway, we are talking about the concept of diversification, which is all about you know, look. It's going to be beyond the whole 60, 40 stop bond split and all that stuff, you know, when, you know, as a seasoned trader, you know, we've come to appreciate the value of mixing things up, diversifying in different areas, not just the market, but also, I would say, time frame, strategy, environment, and
a lot of different things. So, Phil, where do you wanna start with this one? Because, I mean, this is continuing our 12 rules of rebel trading, and this is number 8 in the series. Yes. We're on the 12 rules of rebel trading. We're currently on rule 104. Sounds about bloody right too. Does it I was thinking about this kind of after the fact as Scott was reviewing these kind of this particular mini series. And there's always a number one rule, and
it's the first rule, then the the next first rule. And there's quite literally a long list of first rules of trading. So, yeah, take away the pinch of salt. 1 to 12, currently on rule 104. But this one revolves around, diversification when it comes to financial assets in the markets. And it it it really is I've never understood, Sean, that the 60 40 stock bond splits that traditional way of doing it. So I can't wrap
my head around it, to be honest. And I know for a lot of people applied in the fifties, but you hate not I mean, for for a lot of people at work, I know people that do it, and they make it work. But it's a place to park cash when you've got that strategy, when you've got nothing else to do with it. That's what you're allegedly supposed to do. But if you look at the performance of that over the last couple of years, it's kind of
broken down. It's not worked the way that it was expected to work because the the logic behind it is that the stock market's underperforming, bonds will start to perform and vice versa. You've got this hedged portfolio with a very loose and basic interpretation of it. So I don't necessarily believe in diversification in the traditional sense. I would rather be looking at other things to do with my money when it comes to strategy. And kind of both our defaults have been just
by a happy little accident, Sean. Because what we I think the funny thing is before we actually met and became friends, we were kind of going this parallel track with our own journeys of trading. And then when we kind of met up oh oh oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, I do that. It was that whole Spider Man meme right there. Yeah. We don't point it to each other. So
we kind of came to a lot of similar conclusions. That's probably, I mean, to be fair, with similar personalities, probably not unsurprisingly involved in a very similar way when it comes to strategies and what we want, our likes and dislikes. So a a lot I suppose as well, a little bit of a a a detour as well, Sean, before we get right into it, is a a lot of these things are driven by your personality.
And I'm emphasizing your, you know, underscore it a few times because my preferences are, to be fair, while similar, are different to Sean's preferences. Simply put, we're in different locations, and Sean's just moved, so his priorities have just changed. So based on just some basic geography, the way that you deploy your assets is gonna be a little bit different because of, hey. Maybe the legal structure's gonna be a little bit different so that
it's more tax efficient. And just those things are personality or personal preference driven. So, again, these are the things that kind of influence, what we do and how we do it. Again, my, again, default stance when it comes to diversity is strategy diversification. For many, many, many years, I've always ran multiple strategies. And you can have the same strategy on different assets as well and across
different time frames. So just a few illustrations of you know, you can be, for example, like I'm reduced the number of assets that I'm looking for in the short term, but I've also kept that diversity with the time horizons that I'll trade essentially the same strategy. So let's for example, 2 or 3 strategies on 2 or 3 instruments with 2 or 3 time horizon. You know, 3, 3, and 3, you've got 9 different iterations. So you can be long in the, kind of the the let's just
call it the long term. You can be flat in the short term, and you can be bearish in the medium term. You know, you know, any combination of all of these things. So it just gives you a little bit of diversification for what the markets are doing. And that's how I like to start the conversation with diversification, Sean. Absolutely. Well, I think about my diversification. Not only do I diversify in strategies, but I have I call it the the triangle. I have stock and options, obviously. I
trade, mainstream crypto. And right now, I've even stripped that down from 20 assets I look at down to the main 4. And then there was liquid ones that have momentum and, you know, trend very nicely. It's Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solara, and BNB. Those are my 4 that I look at. And then from that, I've also got micro caps. And the thing is if one is lagging behind the others, well, I switch my focus to those other assets.
You know? You talk about the the 6040 bond split. Funnily enough, mine is 60% stock and options, 30% mainstream crypto, 10% micro caps. That's my you know, I wouldn't say it's it it it it's a happy accident. It's that kind of 6040, but it's not intentional. It's just the way it's naturally flowed and ended up in that kind of same ballpark. But I'm using, crypto, which again is blowing up more recently since, you know, 2023 into to now and has gone absolutely
bloody crazy. But with that, you know, it doesn't matter if it's the the market's going up, down, sideways. There's money being made everywhere, and I can put my focus and attention in those different diversified sectors. And one's always moving very nicely in my direction or sometimes altogether. And, again, you know, that's that just allows me to amplify because some markets have more
volatility like micro caps. Shoot. I could do, anywhere from a 1000% return on capital in a day on depending on the the stock or also the actual coin or what have you I'm I'm doing. I mean, my my record is 32,000 percent return on capital. That's a happy bloody day. Doesn't happen often. But when it does, great. I'll take that cash and sweep, move it into the other asset classes for longer term returns as well. So that's why there's a You raise an
interest in point there, Sean, as well. Those the big wins happen. The the undeniable. They've happened for you. They've happened for me. But you're not aiming for that every trade, are you? It's it's one of those we'll let the market give what it gives us or take what it takes from us. You know, that that that's how we kind of view our trading. But then from time to time, there will be the big win. So you've gotta have a finger in the pie to see how to see how how much filling there
is in it. You know, I don't know where that best of all is going, but you got so many ways we could take that. Yes. Let's move on from that one quite quickly. But it's an interesting point, Sean, isn't it? It's you're not hoping to swing for the fence yet. I think that's also an important thing to consider when it comes to the the the the trading
opportunities, the diversification, if you like. You know, you're not putting a huge allocation in a higher risk asset to, you know, win big on every trading choice. No. You know, it it's not a realistic prospect. I suppose to, you know, the real world business, Sean, it would be like starting up business today, with, you know, a few $1,000. And then this time next month, you've got a couple 100,000,000, you know, in revenues and turnovers. And while it has happened in the past, it
doesn't happen with every business. You know? So the the the you understand that when it comes to the real world of bricks and mortar businesses. But for some reason, as soon as you step into the world of trading, that reality just gets completely forgotten
about. It really does. I mean, we, you know, we talk about how we I mean, at one stage, Phil and I were starting to consider diversifying back into brick and mortar businesses, taking large swaths of capital that we've accrued in our different trading accounts and our capital management asset
portfolio. And thinking, okay. Let's go buy up businesses. Let's go buy up brick and mortar businesses, which I had done in the past and, you know, done, turnaround business and consultancy, got equity in different businesses and all sorts of other things. But it became a major pain in the ass. Now that's an option for diversification, but then a lot of what we decided and I think, you know, me personally, certainly, I think Phil did as well, was we have our rule of
thumb. Is is this unhustled? And the answer is Is this No. We're just buying time solids. Yeah. Yeah. Is this is this just buying headaches or buying hassles and bullshit? And for me, it's like, no. I had to divest myself. Certainly post COVID, I'm not dealing with brick and mortar anymore. Just it's just the way of it. It was a painful lesson during that time. And, yeah, I I got out of it. Exactly. During that time,
everything everything was up in the air, Sean. So we were exploring to to be fair, pre COVID, we were exploring the concepts and ideas anyway. But then COVID obviously hits hard and hit everyone. And so it was all up in the air. You know? What what's the world gonna be like? You know? And
you're just trying to figure out what was going on at that time. So, yeah, we're both exploring a variety of different new ideas and concepts that, you know, we'd never really considered before just because, hey, you know, we're all we're all stuck in the house together, and we've all got to thinking about ways of ways of, you know, living in this, you know, new world. And we didn't know how long it was gonna last. It was a crazy, crazy time. So diversification, Sean, I think we're
both in agreement. Some sort of strategy diversification. And I think it's also interesting to consider. It could be nonstop markets diversification can be included in this category. You could be buying physical businesses, which seems to be a hot button at the moment. I'm sure you've seen a lot of adverts and promotions for various people saying, hey. You know, we've got this, you know, business buying 0 money down, you know, on I've been in
a few of those programs and and to see what they're doing. Doing due diligence. I think it's fair to say that while they do happen, you know, it's no money out of pocket might be a better phrase, not necessarily no money down. You can use other people's money. Anyway, Steve don't get us started. Soapbox time. So so diversification, it can come in a variety of forms, you know, whether you're buying a share of a company, in the stock market or a share of an asset when it comes
to, cryptos. You were saying that, Sean, you've got a high risk allocation. You could also diversify with actual businesses and, you know, getting a portion of, what essentially is private equity, a private share, or a percentage of performance. Again, that's gonna depend on your skill sets. You know, if you've not got the the skill set to offer consultancy and performance based returns, then, you know, maybe it's not a a a fact that you wanna consider
at this stage. But you can look at other things. I I've been looking at so I I I tend to get, a mailer about, whiskey investments for some reason, Sean. So you can you can do this nonclassical asset class of alternative investments. I think that's also worth considering. So I I think just at this high level, Sean, we've got this broad spectrum of things that we could do. But then as we started off our conversation, it's what you want to do, and that's gonna be
flavored by personal preferences. You know, do you want to be, you know, involved or passive? You know, do you want a payout cycle in 50 years or 5 years? That might depend on your age. You know, you know, as I kind of, you know, crest another, hill in life, you know, my time horizon is getting shorter, but at the same time, my patience is also longer. You You know, in an ironic twist, yeah, I might be prepared to wait 30 years for a pay, but at the same time, you
know, like how I got 30 years left. You know? You know, you start thinking about these things. So you've a lot of these diversification issues, they're all flavored by the preferences, what you want. And to be fair, what you know about could also be a fact. I mean, that there's new technology, Sean. I mean, certainly the US tends to get the the the the the first round of things. You could certainly be a fractional investor in property. Now let me say that a fractional investor, you don't need
100 of 1,000. And a lot of these things are US based, which is great. You could go and invest couple $100 like you might, put a couple $100 every month when you do this, you know, buy the S and P 500 or the Global Equity Index. You know? And you just put a couple $100 every month. You could do the same thing with property, but you rather than put a lump sum in, you can again be a fractional investor as a part of a, I'm trying to remember the name of this company, Sean.
But, you know, there's a variety of them where you can, you know, go and invest in property schemes. You don't have to be hands on, and it's super passive in that regard. Yeah. And one of the things Are you thinking of talking about REITs or the different variants on that? I can't I can't it probably is REITs again. The the terminology is a little bit different in the
UK to the US. But, yeah, there's websites and there's directories, etcetera, of companies that you can go and invest in that will go and then manage that on your behalf. But you can get the buy ins minimal, Sean, is all I'm trying to get to. Mhmm. Again, nonstandard asset classes, you can buy and sell debt. Again, there's platform in the this is revolutionary stuff, Sean, compared to when we started out. The the opportunities for starting out as an investor, were very minimal
unless you had a huge buy in. But I remember the, peer to peer micro investing, Sean. You know, that you know, pretty common these days, you know, to get a a payday type loan, but you can do it peer to peer, which is, you know, revolutionary. If you wanna lend 50 quid to someone via this, you know, portal, you can do it, and you can collect interest. Same thing with, tax liens is something that always fascinates me, Sean. Again, completely unique to the
US. No one else in the world has this. It's, you know, fascinating. So, again, diversification comes down to what you want, what you know about, how much time do you wanna invest. Do you wanna be elbows deep and actively managing, or do you want to be passive? And then that's going to then dictate what you go, further into, investigate, and kind of map out the next the 5 years, the next 10 years, the next 15 years of what
you want for your, asset allocations. You know, I would also, like to take a a little bit of a step back is why would you want diversification if you're, you know, in one area and you're doing very well. Why would you want this kind of diversification? Some investments move slower. Some diversification creates, you know, different risk profile. But why would you want to do it in the first place? What is diversification at the end of the day? What does it do for you? What are the benefits?
So a lot of people, listeners, talking about hate REITs and buying and selling debt and flipping out. They're like, this is a fucking trading show. What what are you all about? Why aren't you talking about trading? Well, the thing is and this is something that Phil said years ago, and I've always laughed about it is, I don't care what we do if it's making money. And one thing Phil flippantly threw away is, I don't care if it's whimsical way of saying
this. Yeah. I've I don't care if it's more profitable putting any bears on eBay. That's what we would be doing. And it's not so much the vehicle, so to speak. It's the what's the return and the speed of return? That's 2 critical factors for me, which is why brick and mortars and even real estate right now. I mean, I had my fingers in a lot of different real estate, commercial real estate. And that, again, slow rate of return, It can
accrue big numbers. You can leverage that debt. There's all sorts of different tax advantages you can do from that. But at the end of the day, it was a pain in the ass. And my rate of return could be 12% a year. You know, 12% a year. And that was with cash flow and all the rest. I'm like, I could do that in a week. What the fuck? Why am I why am I worried about that? And then, you know, swinging swinging a big dick just saying, hey. Look. I've
got all this real estate portfolio. Who gives a shit? It's only 10% a year. What can I do with that money that's fucking faster without all the overhead liability, the dealing with tenants, dealing with property management, dealing with banks, dealing with all the paperwork and the tax headaches is like, I'll just go put it over here? I'll watch it go up 10%, you know, in a couple of days and take my money out. Okay. Good. Now
what? I'll do it again. Okay. I'll do it. Lay claim. Can't lay claim to this this phrase, Sean, But, I'll try and dig out so we can give the the attribute to it. But I heard it a few times over the years in a variety of different ways. But it's like the response to all of this is all all of that sounds really great, Phil. You know? But I realized that I like making money more than faffing around with all of that. So, you know, what and again, it comes back to this is the personal preferences.
You know, if you if if your expectation is, you know, I'll make some money in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 5 years, 10 years, that's great. But if you have got a system that can pay out quicker, that's the benchmark. But if you have got a system that can pay out quicker, that's the benchmark, you know, and we've heard we said last week, and not all, it's we've heard this
week, if it depends on when you listen to us. When you listen to us in the future, on the previous episode, we commented on, like, we've just been through quite a revolutionary shift in our own trading, you know, because with new products that come in the financial markets, new ways of trading that were just never previously available 5 years ago in the way that they are
today. You know, 6 months ago, I made a radical change. Sean's done a similar radical change to shift from, essentially swing trading over 30, 60, 90 days, which we still do, but the allocation is switched from that's the primary vehicle. Now it's daily and weekly SPX, income options. That's now the primary driver. It took several months to kind of unwind all my other positions and reallocate. But it's just
literally flipped everything on its heads. You know? And instead of waiting 30, 60, 90 days for a possible payout on 30, 40 positions and trying to juggle and manage that, to be fair, by comparison headache, I can now do 2 or 3 positions every other day or every week, you know, and by comparison make the same type of results in a very short space of time, you know, 3 to 5 days versus 3 to 5 months. You know, it's a very different situation. And the the effort involved is significantly less.
So, of course, I'm going to make the shifts because the lens that myself and Sean are always filtering through is, is it going to be more of a headache or less of a headache? Is it more time or less time? And that really is the first kind of filter that we do. Is this gonna suck all of my time? Okay. Well, the returns might be like you said, I might be making 10% a year passively, or I'm making 10% a year doing 60 hours a week. You know,
which which is which is better for you? You know? Well, hey. Well, you know, if you if you're a workaholic and you like, you know, being involved elbows deep all day every day in the thing that you're doing to get the return that you want, Great. Go for it. I'm not saying don't do it, but it's not for me. You know, and that's what we're trying to figure out when it comes to diversification. We've got alternative investments, cryptocurrency, real estate. We've got strategy diversification, data
trading, swing trading, long term investment approaches. You can dance the same strategy up and down the time frames, which is usually what I like to do. And then you've got geographical considerations, tax considerations, global marketing. What do you wanna be involved within this modern diversification, opportunities, I suppose, is probably a better way of describing it rather than put a pin in any one individual thing. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day is where is your money
best served based on the outcome of McGuire, Sean. You missed it. I know. I know. I'm just I'm just thinking because the impact here is it it really comes down to, like you said at the very start, personal preference. Where and, you know, I'm think it's funny. There's, a And I think most new traders just to put the contrast in sorry, Sean. Just to jump in. Just put that contrast in. Most new traders go, what's making money? And great. You know, everything
works some other time, and they don't have that appreciation. But, well, what do you wanna do? You know? And that just changing the priority of the questions, is gonna have a radically different outcome. No. It's very true. And it's funny because the for me, it's what do I wanna do with my time and my money? And time and money are the two elements that create wealth. You can have all the time in the world and no money. That's not great. You can have
all the wealth and the money and no time. That's not great. But if you have the 2 together, the time to do whatever you want and the resources to do it, that's true wealth. And, there's a gentleman who used to be a client of mine, Pretty popular in the, I would say, the woo woo space. Joe, I knew you were gonna talk about this. I was thinking, is he gonna go woo woo? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's He's gonna say woo woo. 90 books. He's been on if you've read the
movie, the secret and everything else. I won't name drop because it's not cool. But there's one thing that he talks about a lot, and it just popped in my head. And I don't know if he was the original creator of this, but I'll give Joe Vitale, you know, thread it where credit's due and he can pass it along. But one of the things he talks about is money loves speed. You know, is
how far do you wanna push? And there are always the problem is a lot of people get stuck in the quicker, you know, they they do the they they they want really, really fast returns, so they'll take really, really big risks and get really, really burnt in the ass. There's the really, really slow traditional methods, which are a lot safer, but, again, slower rate of
return. Trying to find that balance of reality in the middle and the strategies that work, strategies that don't, again, that comes down to personal preference and flavors and all the other things that we've talked about, plus your psychological, acumen, so to speak, your mental toughness, and what your risk
profiles are. And, you know, some of that, you also need that helping hand and guidance to show you how to do it without getting burned and stuff like that, without getting your panties in a bunch every time something goes right or wrong. And you know what? It's it's no one can no one can tell you what's gonna be best for you. All you can do is stick your toes in the water and see if the temperature's okay. You know. And then, it's a little cold, but I can deal with
it. Now it's getting a little warmer and okay. Fine. So for a lot of people is while money loves speed, I personally, you know, what is the quickest but proven way to get to a certain point? For me, I'm not a patient person. I don't wanna wait. You know, the the rule of 7, which is, you know, hey, if you get 10% return, you'll double your money within 7 years add compounding and all that kind of bullshit.
I don't wanna wait that long. I wanna see, okay. Well, what is within my higher risk tolerance able to flow? How aggressive can I be? If I lose that, do I have a Sounds like a new character on DuckTales Shop. It does. Doesn't it? Yeah. Does funny shit. I have been called
worse than Scrooge McDuck. Yes. But, there's a lot of different things that you have to decide for yourself is what is your outcome you want and what with the strategy strategies you have available or that you know or you can apply is gonna get there. And then what has to happen within that framework to make that happen in a measurable, progressable way that you can track, build on, compound into, and accelerate that. I mean, a good example, and it's a
mathematical example, is okay. Some people start their trading and they have, like they they'll do a cash allocation. Say, I'll just use simple numbers. $1,000, that's their starting pot, and they're gonna trade that and grow it over time. But the way to 10 x that is add in an extra 1,000 every month just like you're adding into your own retirement plan. Now the compounding effect of that over 3 years, 5 years, 10 years is
insane. You get to, you know, if you were just having a consistent 10% return, just to use simple mathematical numbers, this is a mathematical example. And this is the principle of dollar cost averaging that we were kind of bouncing around a little bit and actually say, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Every month, you put in an allocation. You do the same thing with your strategy. And if you've got something that works, you know, you can book $100 in, $500 in, whatever your number is,
whether it be real estate investing strategy. But if you do that, you've got the, you know, the double effect of compounding, is it? It's a yeah. It's a force multiplier for compounding, and you will get to whatever your number is 10 times faster. Most people don't think about treating and I'm waving a pen like it's a magic freaking Harry Potter wand here. But the at the end of the day, people don't consider investing more into their business to help accelerate the growth. They just wanna
do the initial allocation. That's it. You know? And and I'm just like, it's a business. Invest in it. Treat it like and this is this is one thing, you know, from a money management set. And I do this in in businesses. I do this for personal finance as well, is pay yourself first. Tax yourself. You know? The government's quite happy to tax you. Tax yourself. Don't think of it as a tax, though. Think of it as an investment. It's
an allocation to your future. Take 10% off the top, put it over here, you know, find a way to, you know, take 10% and and of your gross income and put it over here. Cut back on a couple of things if you need to. Make a couple of sacrifices because that will pay you so much more dividends in the future that, you know There was a price of coffee at the moment. You can brew it yourself. You know? Bloody right. Since since the, the mock down that we had, literally, the price of coffee
has almost doubled in the UK. Then you've also got, I don't know if they have it in the US, but we've just, again, jacked up the sugar tax. Now I don't know about you, Sean, but on the rare occasions that I do buy a can of Coke, all the products are available, I might ask. But on the rare occasion that I do, it's like I want proper Coke. I don't want the diet nonsense because it's it it it it doesn't doesn't make sense. You're it's still full of shit. You might
as well put the put the the proper shits in. That's all I'm saying. But then you get chance for the privilege of it. So anyway, the put the point is did you save a cup of coffee? You know, it it it it's a silly little thing. Cup of coffee a day. What is it? 5 $5, $8 a a cup in the US. It's it's almost £4, like shiny pennies in the UK. So that's about 6, $7. In a you know, say say book instead of 2 cups of coffee a day
out, you know, but, you know, buy 1 and save 1. You know, it it can be a simple little thing just to get the ball rolling. And you'll think about those little $5 here, $10 there. You know, one of the things I like, Sean, is I I sign up for these, these money apps, and everything I do goes on cards. I hate carrying cash. I always have them. But you've got this save the change feature on most banking apps now. So if it's, you know, 495, it'll round it up and save the change. You know?
And you can be surprised at how how much those those little $3, $4, 5 that, you know, those 50 pennies here and a dollar there, you know, they adds up quite dramatically. And then you can do something with that. You know, just save that change. Start small, and then you can kind of have that compounding effect for maybe not necessarily the trading show, but maybe that can be the start of the, the alternative investments, you know, the the other stuff
that you could do. Because there's a a a mountain of things that, you know, to be fair, interests and fascinates me. And the criteria, as we've always said, is is it worth my time? Is it worth my money? And if the answer's no, then, obviously, it just goes in the idea pile for me, Sean. Yeah. No. That's exactly right. I mean, I have stacks and stacks of books. I I use Evernote as as my second brain. And every time I have this great idea or a synoptic, I thought,
this is a great idea. And then, you know, after the excitement of who's new, which we all have, it's it's like, okay. Well, I've slept on it. You know, it's been a few days later. Is it time, money? You know, what what's better. Okay. Carry on doing what I'm doing because, okay, it's gonna take time to build them.
You know, maybe maybe I'll do something with it. I mean, to be fair, the one thing that does interest me, Sean, just simply because it's not available anywhere else, I keep coming back to tax liens and tax re the is it the liens and certificates? I find that fascinating because it's I and, you know, if you're familiar with this in the US, forgive a complete noob in the UK who's just heard about it
because it doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. You can lend money to someone temporarily and have it government backed. That's that's seems rebel. Why wouldn't you do that, Sean? And it's completely passive is what I like about it. Yeah. There's all sorts of different things that crack me up in terms of what you can, what you can't do, what vehicles are available. And half of it, you know, I kind of like, is this legit? Is
is there what what's the catch? Because, you know, I I I'm a I'm like the world's greatest bloody skeptic in in a lot of these because I've seen every level of bullshit, something with financial instruments come through my desk. And you're just like, this is just a Ponzi. It's a wrapped Ponzi with a new name, you know, and stuff like that. And it's a case of, alright. Okay. Is there a real thing here? Then I start, you know, I'll start talking to some smarter friends. Because here's the thing.
I wanna surround myself with people who are far smarter than me in financial instruments. I don't wanna be the smart if I'm in the smartest person in the room in regards to that, I'm in the wrong fucking way. Room. Yeah. Exactly. And so I wanna find out who knows more. I mean, this is why I got into real estate was I started networking with millionaires and billionaires who had a quite a large real estate portfolio. And I'm looking at them. It's like,
what are you doing? Like, here. I've even dabbled with it here. Okay. And I'd say dabble with the idea. I'm not dabbling because for a a flying, you know, a foreigner here can't own property, but companies can. So create companies and look at that. But I'm looking at cash flow because a lot of the American real estate methodologies don't exist here in Thailand. So my brain's going, what if I look at what was going on in America, what I can do in America,
and the methodologies and that? How would they apply here if no one's thinking about it or no one's doing it? First of all, why? What's the opportunity? Is there an opportunity? What kind of financial lending is available for this kind of thing, and I started down that rabbit hole. 6 months later, it's not really possible here. That's why because of financial market regulations, government controls, and all sorts of other things, it makes it a lot more difficult than it is in America.
Okay. But now I am aware of what the situation is. And if that situation changes, then guess what? Sean's already got a battle plan to gobble up massive amounts of, you know, small real estate here. Single family homes. You'll draw your swords and shout at the top of your voice by the power of Grayskull and charge head first into the opportunity. Yeah. It's it's it's not He Man. It's Batman. But, yeah, there you go. I've got the kittens instead of battle cat. It's not gonna work out
very well. But, you a full kitten. Yeah. But funny enough If you you're in just selling, though. The funny thing is here, just as a just as a kind of sidebar, is what's called house shops. They're 4 story, single column. They've got a shop in the bottom and then 4 stories of, homes available. But you you buy the house, cost a lot of money because land here in Bangkok is fucking expensive. It's about 4 times. And center of Bangkok, it's, like, a 100 times like in Texas where I was.
But that land, the cruise doesn't tend to go down, but you but you lease the shop, you lease the houses, and continuous cash flow. And it's just continuous cash flow and equity forever. And you you can you don't have, like, 1031, lien exchanges with, you know, tax exchanges where you don't get taxed on that. You move it into other properties. You don't have that per se here, but you can get really good financing opportunities, and the banks don't like
foreclosing. They will work with you on different payment terms. Very lax here in that regard. So I was thinking, okay. Where's the opportunity? There's an opportunity, but now where's the headaches? Where's the hassles? And it comes down to regulation and some of the stuff. Yeah. Speak up. Speak. Yes. So, yeah, I mean, there there's a lot of different things that when you start looking into learning, I use it as my spare time analysis of which I've got
plenty. Is, you know, is is okay. What else is an opportunity, and what's the rate of return? And, funnily enough, I end up coming back to the stock market and just saying, yeah. I'll just I'll just change my allocation or I'll just add more to the portfolio here because it ends up being a lot less hassle. But it's it's interesting rabbit holes that we dive down. And we've gone completely off the
bloody script and the plan for the show. I hadn't noticed, and I I thought we're completely on track, with our But I think it's a good point to kind of I don't think it's a bucket. Okay. I think it's good to explore. Looking back at the show notes, is there anything you wanna pull from that that we haven't covered? Yeah. I I I think just generally speaking, it it's sometimes more than trading.
As we've said several times in the last few, editions of this short miniseries, it's sometimes that the the decisions that we make are not necessarily trading related directly. You know? A lot of things are, you know, personal preferences. They're gonna be situation. They're gonna be geography that you know, there's a whole variety of things that influence it. So we can still all be doing the same thing, but it's going to be approached in
a different way at these higher levels, the decisions that we make. Again, we always filter through time. And, you know, is it going to be a time so called not? You know, that is the first priority for everything that we do and the decisions that we make. So diversification, Sean, you know, it it's there's a lot of stuff out there. Do you wanna do it? Do you have to do it? Do you need to do it? What are the time horizons to consider? And then then you
can explore what might be the right thing for you. And again, in the US, we've already established. There's lots of opportunities in the US compared to just Europe. And then there's there's there's equally other opportunities that are not available elsewhere depending on where you're in the world. So do you wanna be, you know, allocate time to it, or do you wanna allocate resources to it? A little bit of both. And then you can turn those dials, as we like to say. You can kind of speed
things up, slow things down. That's gonna flavor to swipe Sean's thing, which I quite like it, Moe. That's your flavor of ice cream, baby.
That's a bloody word, mate. So alright. Diversification. It doesn't matter what you're doing, recognizing where you are, what your needs are, what your requirements are for risk diversification, money diversification, you know, geographical diversification, time diversification, what you're looking at in terms of where you are in the world environmentally, governmentally, regulatory, you know, technology
available, behavioral, situations. There's so many different ways to diversify not only your portfolio, but also your risk and your brain as well. One thing, I'll just put, you know, before we wrap up and and a last thought that popped in my head is I like diversification to keep my interest. Because trading is boring as shit. It really should be. I mean, we try and put a laugh and a spin on it, but training trading
should be boring. It shouldn't be an excitement driven, avid because that leads to bad psychology as far as I'm concerned. It should be boring. It should be functional. It should be a production line process. You know, effort in, money in, profit out, and
that's it. It shouldn't be anything more than that. But because it does get boring, I also like to just be aware of different areas of finance and opportunity just to have my finger in the pie, so to speak, and see what is out there, from just a an educational standpoint as well. So for me, there's all sorts of different reasons to diversify, but as Phil reminded me,
depends on what flavor of ice cream you like. So go stick a, what's it, a flake 99 on the top, little bit of sprinkles, little bit of cherry syrup, and enjoy. Don't get to hold the nuts. Yeah. There you go. Absolutely. Absolutely. So with that being said, rock and roll, see you same bat time, same bat channel next week. And, Phil, as always See you same time next time myself, but, Tulu Trader, bye for now. There you go. Adios, amigos.
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