World War Microchip, Rare Earth Mineral Issues + Suspicious Fires

I don't really really, how is that possible? Who got blindsided? They didn't see, oh bye, the stack is going down? How did they? How could we get to a place where we're running out of chips? We don't have chips and everything needs a chip? Really? No real? Steve is a titan of the tech industry. He showed up there in sil Valley just as it was starting to boom, invested in I think companies. He had a couple of huge hits and a couple of notts of the hits.

But he's also an educator. He teaches at Columbia Teachers on the Universities. He also is what does he teach, well, he teaches a lot of different stuff. At one of them. You don't know how to scale up, no, how to scale up, how to scale businesses, the fact that not every innovator knows how to run a business. If that, did I do that right? Steve? Kind of well close enough? So really not, really is there a really a chip shortage? And b is there something we don't know about this?

Because really no, really hard to believe we ran out of chips. So that's a great question for twenty twenty two, because in twenty twenty three we now have a chip plot rather than a chip shortage. And it turns out that chips are kind of the new oil of the twenty first century. You know where we went to war

for oil and in the Middle East. Concern is we might actually go to war war over chips in the twenty first century because they're not made in the US, and they're made in a country called Taiwan, at least most of the advance chips that you use in your iPhones or in other devices. And if you remember, Taiwan, while they think of themselves as independent, China believes that

they're just a breakaway province. And that's A real problem for the US is that we're now completely dependent on at least the most advanced chips being made in factories called founderies, most of them in a foundry run by a company and called TSMC, which is a time when these company and that's you know, ninety miles from the

shores of People's Republic of China. And so that's why last year the US government, for the first time in like seventy five years, stood up a national Industrial Policy, which is basically said, we're going to put our thumb on the scale and give fifty plus billion dollars to US chip manufacturers to start building factories in the US. Getting involved in industrial policy was something this country just never did for a long time, and now we're actually

doing that. I've read that we are now making significant investments in US based chip production. But those factories, Am I wrong? They take like a decade to build one of these places, doesn't it? Yeah, two to four years. So the TSMCRE now building a couple of Arizona and they'll come up to speed maybe late this year, next year. But it's not just how long do they take, it's still even when they are functioning, there are maybe two percent of t SMC's output out Taiwan, right, and different

different kinds of chips. They're not what my understanding too, is it in Taiwan, they're making this an A grade chip and they ain't going to share that technology. They'll make other chips down here, but they're not stupid. They want to keep their chip as the gold standards, so to speak. Correct. There are kind of three types of chips, ones that think called logic chips, and those are the brains of most devices, and those are made for companies

like Intel that make microprocessors. But also what this company in Taiwan does is they don't design any of the chips. They actually make them for other people. So IBM and AMD and Ballcom and the video names that might not be familiar but are familiar with Technology Crowd. They design the chips, but this company in Taiwan makes them on the most advanced technology that exists on the planet. Well, Intel designs it and makes them themselves. Those are logic chips.

The other types of chips that are used in you know, in iPhones or anything else you might have are memory chips, chips that store information, and those are kind of made by American companies like Micron and South Korean companies like Samsung, etc. And also you know China, People's Republic of China has a big memory company as well. And then there are

other chips. And this goes back to the glut conversation versus the shortage that are analog that is, instead of ones and zeros deal with kind of different voltages like power and right relate temperature and things like that. They used a lot in automobiles and one of the bigger companies for that is in Japan. And what's really interesting is that last year the year before, there were a series of fires in those factories, those what are called

fabs in Japan that made automotive chips. And if you were an automotive company and depending now on chips to control a lot of the functions in your car, when the factory went up in smoke, you look at you're just in time inventory and said, it's you know, none

in time inventory. We don't have chips, and therefore we couldn't make cars unless you were Tesla, who managed to figure out how to redesign their cars on the fly to use different chips at a speed that the other automotive companies couldn't do because Tesla was vertically integrated, meaning they had all the technical people capable of saying, well, if we can't use this chip, we'll use another one. So GM and Ford and everybody else just put it around with their hand out going please more, can I

have some more? Well, other companies were actual and innovative to redesign around that. Steve, Yeah, Steve, don't. I don't want you to have to say anything or go on the record, so you just do it with blinks. But I think what you're saying yes or no, A blink will tell me A guy at Tesla knew a guy who knew a guy who had a match who went over to a Japanese company, And is that possible? Is that what you're saying? Just just blink, just I saw blank, ye,

a couple of plants. Actually, what's really interesting is that there were no fires in the Chinese companies I saw blinking, I saw a lot of this is my original question, Rose really, no, really, we ran out of chips, with the subtext of did we really? Is somebody hoarding him? If somebody sending him, somebody prioritize what's the real story underneath he ran out of chips. You can't just be that simple. And the story was there were a lot of quote accidents in a lot of places that made

chips in very specific areas. And then once there's a shortage, what happens in almost every industry, particularly the chip industry, is people double and triple order that as you order more than you need. And now we're in this other phase of a glut where everybody's over ordered, and now we got more chips than we need. Plus at the same time, we've basically told China they can no longer buy the machines to make their most advanced chips. So we're kind of in a chip trade board, which, oh,

it's good. Can I ask you about China. It's really funny because it because let's get tough with China. Let's do this with China. We're not going to let China do this. Kim Cook at Apple's gone, yeah, let's get tough with China, because he's blinking, blinking, blinking. If China screws him over, Apple's kapusky. I'm sure they're looking at other places to do stuff, but either the prices will go through this, So that's got to be a strange

relationship between a company like that. And because he can't turn his background China tomorrow and say yeah, we're gonna get tough and yes, President Biden, we're gonna do it. Wow, they're beholden right, And in fact, both Apple and Tesla are both in the same place. Half of Tesla's businesses now from manufacturing faculty in Shanghai, which supplies not only China, but a good part of the Europe as well. And so there are a number of companies that are beholden

to the Chinese market and more importantly Chinese suppliers. When the US offshore that has took its manufacturing to the lowest cost places to build stuff, which was Southeast Asia and China, not only took those specific industries, but it took the entire ecosystem, which means if you moved automobile manufacturing somewhere, you just didn't move that plant. All the guys who made machine tools and all the companies that made plastics and seats and whatever. Pretty easy to understand

when you move a manufacturing plant. But the same thing happened starting in the twentieth century when we moved chips overseas. Not only did those things go, but all the other machinery and software and whatever now moved with it. It's the same when you moved your iPhone manufacturing overseas. All the suppliers are now around the places that assemble the iPhone,

which happened to be in China. So we ended up hollowing out, in a bipartisan way, of a whole set of industries in the United States to achieve lower cost and higher profits. The irony is, of course, the last people we believed who were complaining about this were the unions, who said, you didn't understand a set of industries, and we went out these inefficient guys. They just wanted, you know,

their jobs. And it's all about Jimmy Hoffa for those who remember that their criminals or whatever, all might have been true, but they were they were the people who were one hundred percent absolutely right. Is that when you offshored industry acts, you're actually hollowing out a whole set of other industries. And I think we that the results of that by accident in the twenty sixteen election and

some of the polarization of areas of the country. They're now left out right and by the way, that this offshoring wasn't a democratic or Republican thing. It was. It was bipartisans. It was everybody who got money from financial industries that thought it was a useful thing to do to optimize profits. And it did much cheaper to get cheap stuff in Walmart now because it's made cheap labors

somewhere else. But one could argue whether that was actually great for the American economy or democracy as a whole. Was it real the schip shortage? Now you're saying there's a glut. Are they going to Are they going to adjust so this won't happen again? Are they going to adjust? The just in time production? As I understand it is.

We used to wearhouse stuff, but that's costly, so just in time means it shipped just when you needed to complete the car or whatever, and you don't have to wear house but you leave yourself vulnerable to whether conditions or fire or whatever. Are we going to change the way you do business here? Are we still going to continue and this will be a problem in the future yet again? Yeah, I think it's going to be a

problem in the future. Oh good, you know, but there are now just new variables, including amature we're going to import from China versus Now we'll move some of that manufacturing assembly to other places that have a low cost of labor, like Vietnam or India or or or again with a Chips Act, trying to enshore some of those critical things back to the US. It's it's a pretty just for that one industry. It's a pretty interesting mess about how globalization has both tied us up and how

vulnerable we are to disruptions from the supply chain. And Steve, isn't there also an element point? You know? It's it's it's terrible when you only have smatterings of of information,

which is where I live most of the time. But I thought I remembered something about there's a critical mineral or or that you must have an order to manufacture chips, and maybe it's something like lithium or something like that, and that we are actually in some jeopardy of running out of this critical element in order to manufacture these chips at all. Is there? Am I getting that right? Yeah?

I think that's usually called money, But I think the lithium you're talking about is a critical element in making batteries, right, And then there's a whole set of what are called rare earth materials, which is a fancy word for materials I can't even pronounce jitrium and all the other things that are used in high performance magnets that are used

in electric motors and electric cars. And one of the interesting things about about raw materials is Ukraine was a key supplier of something called neon, which was a gas used in making actually in some of the equipment that made the chips theography machine, and that neon needs to be replenished every couple of months in these machines, and we had to find other sources. So the world is kind of interdependent. The China kind of owns most of

the rare earth materials, export control on us. We'd be are pressed to scramble to make some of those stuff up. But I think your point is a bigger one. The world is kind of injured dependent on a whole ton of materials. Russia still supplies most of the titanium in the world used in aircraft and other manufacturing. Cobalt is sourced from places in Africa that are the same place that blood diamonds come from, so it's kind of a

complicated set of supply chains. And the whole idea about some of these industrial acts that the US is thinking about is how do we in fact get some of the stuff made and sourced in the US now, or at least among our allies and a world that's becoming a little less interconnected, and that we're thinking that maybe we need to be self sufficient in some of these things. We used to have on national supplies of this stuff.

We would stockpile. We stock by the oil, and we stockpiled strategic materials during the Cold War, and when we thought the world was, you know, unified, we kind of sold most of that stuff off. I think we're going to start stockpiloting again. It's thank god, thank god for stockpilot. That means warehousing, that means trucking. It moves America. I gotta ask you, do you have a guy like you. Do you have a vision board? Do you have a vision board? You know where you put up I'm so

glad you said what a vision board? And I put up visions of things that you want to accomplish on a board so you can see him everything I want to do that I want to do that, I want to do it. No, no vision board. You know, my vision board extends to make it to the shower in the morning. He's too busy doing stuff that I go making. Okay, so doing stuff you're an entrepreneur. Here's another question. I really not really So guys come to investors like you,

really smart ice who want to start businesses. It used to be you had to give fundamentals to give. Now it seems like they got a vision in a story that they're telling and ent up with thorough nos didn't or what's his name, Sam Bankman Freed? And I don't like people with three names anyway. I'm very suspicious to the three and three name. How are they pitching in Silicon Valley that that can happen? These are smart people.

I look at the board of Pharaonos. It was major people, and nobody went, can we see how this item works before we give you another round of funding. Nobody says that.

You know, every entrepreneur believes they're a visionary, and there's enough data to say that about ninety five percent of them or more are hallucinating, and so the differences, you know, to be able to figure out which ones or which But the problem is and what you just describe is that in a bubble economy, that is, when you can make money on any idea, the ideas, and it's whether

it's could be profitable, it starts becoming less important. And so the end of twenty twenty two we were in the greater fool theory of like remember musical Chairs as a kid, everybody invested, the next guy paid more and more, and I sold it off, and so everybody was making profits until someone said, hey, the emperor has no clothes. There is no business here. And the venture business, that is the people who invest in startups make money on those crazy times, and they also make money on the

bad times. But then they need different rules, and as you just explained, in the bubble times, the rules are, can we make money from the next dope who's going to put more money in at a bigger valuation. So it's a beer miss game. It's a beer miss game, yes, and it's more like a beer pod I'm sorry for clarifying,

Oh my god. Time. That is, if you're actually doing this to see who has a company that could be profitable and deliver real products, etc. Then you look for different things and you invest on different criteria, meaning you say, hey, can you actually sell stuff that people want to buy? What a great idea. That's not what's happened in the last two or three years. I think we're getting back to that in twenty twenty three and twenty things about it and you read what people investing in. I want

to know the next trend. But I'm noticing that Jeff Bezos and Musk and all those guys are investing in neuralinks. A lot of them are thinking about the computer that links directly to your brain. You know, you eliminate the whole deal, goes right to your brain. And when I see that much investment in that, is that real? Is that something that everybody thinks is going to be happening

or is that a pipe thream? Well, when I was young and foolish, that was called the LSD went right to your brain and you've got to see visions completely. But I think there's a set of amazing stuff that's happening. Neuralink is one of them, and if possible, it's going to provide people ways to communicate. I mean, think about the good part of that. People who are paralyzed and people who can't communicate or don't have the motor skills

to do that. It also has a dystopian view that says, Gee, I'll plug people in whether they want to or not. And so I think it's going to be in interesting

to see how that turns out. You know, I think that the part when we talk about tech, though, and you talked about neuralink, the part that really doesn't get talked about much in the same breath is all this stuff that's going on in what's called biotech and life sciences, the people who are using entrepreneurship and innovation to create new drugs, ethical drugs, meaning pharmaceuticals and vaccines and whatever.

And you know, when you're talking about iPhones and hardware and chips and whatever, we tend not to look at the other side of technology innovation. In the last couple of years, there's been some breakthroughs that are just amazing to make people healthier and safer in a way that we didn't think it was going to be coming for a while. Is there altruism there in Silicon Valley? Are

these guys only money? You know? You read all these articles and it seems like the Internet was supposed to be a shared thing, and it was supposed to be democratic whatever, And now you're seeing being with the fines from the EU Facebook that it's all about the money. It's all about engagement and money. Is there altruism still in Silicon vallement? So you've got to remember who you're asking the question to a guy in a giant room. Yeah, well, you know, I remind my students you get that at

the end of your career. Hopefully not if you're asking the entrepreneurs, that is, the people come up with the idea and the technology and the vision and whatever. You know, I'd say at least half, if not more, of them, maybe three quarters, are doing it because they see something that they want to create and they want to bring it to reality and they want to make the world better or at least more interesting, or or create something. But remember the other half of the people we are

talking to are extreme capitalists. Those are the venture capitalists. Their goal is to make an obscene return on some of those investments, because they're not like a bank wanting five percent interest knowing that most of their bank wants almost all their investments to succeed. Capitalists realizes that most of them will fail. That's a big idea that's a crazy type of financing that never existed before the last

quarter of the twenty first twentieth century. That made all these things that we take for granted possible because who else would it invest in ten things knowing that eight or nine of them won't work. That's called a Broadway backer. That's that's it. It's called the producers. That's exactly right right. It's a new type of what's called financial asset class that says we're going to take extreme risk for extreme return.

And so those are the capitalists. When you see people funding these crazy you go, well, I would anybody fund one of those? Well, that's why I would have said about Apple and in the nineteen seventies, or they would have said about Bill Gates or whatever. And as I said, most of them fail. But those are different people than

the people who start the company. So you need to separate out the entrepreneurs from the venture capitalists who are taking financial risk, moving entrepreneurs who are taking career risk and taking taking failure risk in a different way. And so let me ask this because it kind of segues into this, and I know you're you're not necessarily an expert in these other new kind of most of anything,

these cryptocurrencies. But I have never understood cryptocurrency specifically, and I have friends who have invested in it, and they made a whole bunch of gains and now they seem to be making a whole bunch of loss. And I know that's the Sam Bankman freed thing. Is this a real thing, this alternative sort of tech currency. Does that have legs? Do you believe in it? Or is it a fesso and something that just doesn't really make much sense? So I normally don't pass on any question, but this

one is way above my pig right, Okay. I mean I have a bunch of students who start crypto things and it all gets confused with bitcoin and blockchain and you know, digital good currency and distributed finance, and some of it has some real legs that will like distributed finance and things built on blockchain that will bypass all the bitcoin and digital currency stuff. But right now it's all getting confused, and I think twenty twenty three will

be the year that it settles out. So here's the question. If you are you investat in crypto? Never? Okay, definitely, That's that's really all I need doesn't mean that's how I should invest. Why was I being intellectual and going because you know that's here to go? I really got you on just to forget the chips there. Really, that really is can we get some investment advice? Because money? I think the other question at the same time as you should ask is how often do you go to

Las Vegas? And I think there's a direct correl So it doesn't mean it was a bad idea. It just means what was your risk tolerance for for investing in something? You know what I saw Warren Buffett say, yeah, you can. It's a house. You have the house, and so it's the thing here. It's the thing with crypto. What's who's it helping, who's manufacturing, who's doing and he's That's why you can't hold it in your hand. I don't know what it is, you know. That's why my head spins

every time I hear about it. And they're selling real estate in the megaverse. Okay, So and I go, okay, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out. I don't know anything. So one of the things to think about is for any new tech is that it's usually ahead of regulation and government involvement for years, if not decades, And that's both an opportunity and a problem. You know, remember we were talking about entrepreneurs and venture capital. Venture capital is

an asset class that's completely unregulated. There is no regulation, which allows them to do some pretty innovative stuff, but it also allows them to do things like they're in NOS and FTX and some of the others. Digital currency and crypto is completely unregulated. In fact, some of the contributions FTX was making to both parties was to figure out how to get regulation written to actually legalize that

in their favor. Because remember, we operate in a while we operated in a democracy, we operate what I call it depockets democracy. I remind my students that Congress is coin operated and that what writing that John Congress. It's the best way to put it. Wow, you know, I

have just as an aside. I was a public official for a while in California, and I still remember going to my first meetings and then realizing that the little video I had watched as a kid on how a bill was made like it didn't have the word will lobbyist writing house about how did that work? Yeah, and I'm a little older and more cynical. But obviously democracy

is still the still the best bet we have. But you need to understand how it really works, not how you wish it would work, and then hopefully be able to get it to work a little better and more efficiently. But but I found if you really don't understand how the game is wired, then you're always going to be a victim of the game. Wow, all right, it's a bottom line. Bottom line. We got enough chips, We're gonna

be okay. You think we're gonna be O, We're okay. Well, we're gonna be okay until China decides to do something in response. So this is more of a China issue than it is a shortage issue now, yeh, all right, So we gotta look to China and hope that we know what's doing. One good night's sleep and he just took it away. That's it. Now I gotta be up all night worrying about China. What China is going to do.

There's nobody in My father used to have a saying, right whenever I had a thing, I'm not going to pass that test. I'm never gonna I didn't study enough. I'm not going to get the in. My father would go, there's about a billion people in China that don't give

a crap about what you just said. And now I got to be worried about those billion people who don't give a crap about they don't care about what before we go one lasting Steve, your commencement speech to Philadelphia University was rated by MPRS one of the top commence to speak in the last three hundred years. Really, could you just because I want to, I'd like to close on something positive. I'm guessing you didn't depress the kids and say you're stirting. What was it? What was the

message there? If you can condense it down that made it so memorable for so many people and so lauded by so many people. What were you telling young kids, because maybe that message could go out and resonate today. Well, you know, there were a couple of messages. Most of it was a story of how I ended up where I ended up, and it was about taking control of

your own destiny and just showing up a lot. The story of my life was sticking out my thumbs and seeing where the world would take me and being present for opportunities and not And again it's also a story of Silicon Valley is not believing that the world has a set of fixed jobs and rules and whatever. Is that you have an opportunity to do almost always what you want to do. People are constrained about how they grow up and circumstances where they start, but that doesn't

mean that's where you need to end up. And I was just telling folks about my journey was just what their journey could be. Some people started with more circumstance than others, but it doesn't mean you can't end up in a pretty good place. And so that was the story, and some people found that it resonated with them because it gave them some hope that it didn't matter where you started, it mattered about the journey, and that was the reward. Steve Blank, thank you. You're really a gentleman

for coming on. And you're you're so successful you don't need us. I decide you make things that I don't understand a little bit clearer, and that is no small room is a big room, Steve. That's spaking of my house. How forget he's living on a golf course. Look at the property? Is that your is that your golf course? You do it's my friend blood ladies. Okay, yeah, but you're involved with the giving pledge. You're giving all your

money away, right we can. We announced that right here today, that you're giving you all your money away, and part of my children are taking care of That's fine. Mine along with that, mine is inadvertent against my widow and Peter. Thank you. It's always fun, leisure leasure man. And I'm glad to know that there's a blood of chips right now. Yes, talk to me. So what do we think? You know? I I would like to think that the chip thing

is solved, but America doesn't learn. Well, I'm doing my part because I maintain what I said at the beginning. You know I don't use chips. So okay, let me let me. I wrote down some things to see if you use. I don't use chips. Hold on, hold on, so I guarantee I don't use more than so. Not even a ring doorbell. You have a ring doorbell, I do not. You have a roombavac. I do not. Okay, you don't. I do not say the obnoxiously. You have one of the computer toothbrushures. No, no, I hit my hands.

It's just fine. Controls but through not through, not through an app. Your light stone you have a light, not through an app clock to turn them out. I'm not through an app. No, sir, coffee, Mac, you make sank you with a screw, strangeway enough. I do have a chip for that shaver, pacemaker, nothing, nothing, nothing, but you're you're out of ships by the way, you're out of regular ship. I have no corn chips, I have no chips. I don't use you, really, Jason, you're really I assume

my car has chips. I assume my phone on my computer. Other than that, I don't think I have chips. I really don't. I'm part of the solutions, like I don't even cutting down. I'm cutting down. I'm conserving. So everyone else has a little so delusional. As a summary, what I learned is if Steve is to be trusted, it's that Wow, he's just spending half an hour thrown him under the bodies. Why wouldn't it be trusted because it's not that he's at the information, but I don't know

that he's getting Who knows who's getting more information? We can't monitor China. You think he's using him. China doesn't send him spreadsheets we don't know what they're making. Okay, right, okay, what's your point that I think it's more complex than yes, we're okay or we're not okay, because I keep hearing we're threatening China except the nine hundred nine hundred eight

million dollars of our debt. So it's hard. It's like me saying to Laurie, go screw yourself, and she goes, oh, really, paving back to twenty grand I learned you and you go, you know what, don't screw yourself. So there's it's a balance. You know, there's much more going on here. So let's add this wrinkle. So call it country A. Where country B, Country A puts the screws to country B. Can Country

A not suffer as a result of that? Where aren't we all so interconnected, our economies, our mutual survival at this point? Is there? Really? How are you gonna how are you gonna turn to the United States and say we're cutting you off from hope and survive. What's what sad is it's not because we care about each other. It's the countries in the world will work together because it's commerce, because it's commerce and we're depending on it. There are best customers. So that's all right, Google Heim,

what do you got? Well, I think it's really no, really, Peter, that you're asking Jason if he has a fifth bit? He is? Really how many times? I don't think that was a little bit of a zen, you know, times, a little begging. He's looking at me and going fat. I can say something, can I say to you can testify to the what do you mean you're not it's a rebellion from mar Oh? Yeah, right, so that is and you gotta you gotta and don't kiss his ass just because he was on signfiled the first eighty times

we did eighty times we did zoom meetings. I think Peter's micros off. I think he's it's always somebody else that's problem. And it turned out to be you're freezing. It's gotta be your problem. What are you you were looking about? The Zoom's thing was a problem. Are you out of your true Oh you suck up? You sucked Every time we were doing this from our houses, your microphone was a problem. He would hear my microphone perfectly, get it, I get it. That's okay, it's okay. What

are you pointing? You know? Look, you're actually pointing a finger. You're pointing fingers pointed at yourself, young man. Everyone else is the problem. You know what you need to do? You need another one going on? Ayouaskar retreat for it. If they have anything else, gonna wrap it up. Marie's going to wrap it up. It's enough already. Jimmy half Jimmy halfer anyone, Yeah, who said we don't know who can? That's it? All right, I'll give you. I'll give you

one extraneous. I'll give you an extraneous. Really no, really to think about. On a YouTube science channel, they have proved using mathematics that the entire Internet, the entire Internet is ways fifty grams or relatively the way of a strawberry. Really no, really, So Laurie wrapped us up and you ignored that for that? Do you notice that Laurie is behind me. I'm looking at you. If you want better control of this program, put Laurie where I can see her, and we will be in and out the way we're

supposed to. Really know, Really, this episode was not that we really aren't on a chips or the China relationship. It's the Internet ways. What a Strawberry and the other. Really, no, really, is Laurie sitting in the wrong spot. That's the that's that's what we've learned, and this show is the weight of a hamorrhead. What are we talking about here? I don't even know. All all right, we'll be back, I'm sure because there's chips and we'll have plenty of them

and we'll be able to keep doing this. Everyone talking, now, how are you talking? We'll be happy too. But then we're you're talking like my mother. You're putting words in an order that I'm not familiar with. All right, I'll be like my father. I'll sit here silent, you know. Finished the show. Congratulations, goodbye now really now, Jason and

I would like to thank Steve Blank for joining us today. Steve, of course, has been called one of the most influential people in tech by Forbes, and his contributions to tech and the lean startup movement have been noted by The New York Times and Bloomberg. That goes on and on and on. He start undergraduate and graduate students at Stanford Berkeley, Columbia, NYU, UCSF and soon the Imperial College in London. You can

find more about Steve at Steve Blank dot com. Of course, you can find us online at really No Really dot com. We're also on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at Really No Really Podcast. We now have full episodes on YouTube, so hit that subscription button and take that bell so you're updated when we release new videos. For questions and suggestions, you can message us on Instagram, and most of all, we want to thank you for listening, subscribing, and sharing

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