Really now, really.
Really hello, and welcome to really no really, with day's Alexander and Peter Tilden, who propt for the idea that if everyone subscribed to our show, the whole world might suddenly get along. Sadly, some of you haven't subscribed, and arguably even sadder the world seems like a place where it's harder and harder to get along. People seem to
be behaving horribly. We're seeing tirades in supermarkets, live performers being pelted with projectiles, drunken moviegoers getting into brawls and tantrums on airplanes that results in fistfights and arrests, and it seems to be getting worse. Really no, really, So Jason and Peter have called upon an expert in human behavior, doctor Ryan Sultan, Assistant Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at Columbia University, to help explain our growing inability to get along.
So here they are, and please try to behave.
R. We can hear you, know, we can hear you, but we're ready to start. We're ready. We're ready as soon as we can't hear you now or maybe here's the thought close to do now.
You're acting out, you're acting out. Is this the kind of behavior you would.
Display in a public area you have no displayed and a kind of behavior in a public forum you are abusive to the to the person yelling, rolling. So so our test today, yes, is about the epidemic of people behaving badly.
A couple examples on Broadway, a sub theater. Yeah, somebody took a dump in the in the island. The lights came up and the Clinton's were there.
Actually, I got to tell you there's not a lot of restaurant facilities in his own hipps.
I can kind of understand what I love.
Though, is the part of this that made me laugh. As they interviewed the house manager later, saying how could this happen? He said, this is the fourth thought.
Yeah, that's the part of it that there's a serial defecator on Broadway.
He has to be stopped or she or she has to be stopped. There's got to be an underlying pause pausing all this outrage, and we have some thoughts about that, but we have an expert coming on, Brian.
My mother would have said, not raised well, not raised well, That's what my mother would have said.
Mother, simplist, simplist, Yeah, she she liked to cut through because a lot of noise, a lot of the getty. Yeah, maybe a generational thing. We'll find out a bit, but I wanted to give you since you're used to Broadway in theater. I am going to open with some examples before we get our expert out here.
This is the examples of of of.
Of performers calling out the audience members. It got so bad, so you know this this person feeling. My friend Patty Lapone did it a couple times. Number one. Not only did she yell at at an audience member who was wearing a mask in correctly going COVID, she said, she said something like we may have to bleep it, something like put them pull the mask up, and then the VIDEOSO member shots back, I pay your salary, to which
she res responded, both Chris Harper pays myself. He's the guy who does the show, so pull up the FN mask. She also grabbed somebody's self and went out and grabbed somebody's cell phone, returned it after the show, so she doesn't suffer for Gladly she did return it. Lin Manuel Miranda stopped Madonna from coming backstage after the show because she was using her phone, apparently doing a performance.
Lin Manuel Miranda was performing.
Madonnas in the attended a performance and supportedly called herself out by Miranda in the now deleted tweet that said he refused to allow her backstage to meet the cast after due to her. Babe Kanye Kanye West was called out for using his cell phone during the opening musical The Share Show. I refuse to believe that Kanye. During the Wrong Man twenty eighteen performance, Joshua Henry reportedly left the stage mid performance to grab the phone of an
audience member was texting him. Proceeded to throw the phone under the risers during this.
Let me tell you some Joshua Henry is not a small man. He's a big, really big talented man, and he is in good shape.
So and the interesting thing though, I wanted to go back and look at history. Do you know that there was a performance that was met with catballs and hisses and people ran on the stage to actually protest this performance. You know what it was cats a pro coffee of piano concerto in nineteen thirteen. So audience behavior apparently goes way way back, and they're very vocal.
Do you remember what they used to do at the Globe Theater back in Shakespeare's day.
They used to yell, yell, they would throw, they threw.
That's where that trope of throwing rotten tomatoes, and that's where rotten tomatoes come from, people throwing.
Bad So then we went through a period of that, and then we went through a paier to being more civil and people got the etiquette and how to perform in public, and now we're back in a worse way. I have some thoughts about that. I have some thoughts.
You want initial thoughts before we bring on our guest. Yeah. Yes, you can see it during COVID, where people we were so divided, especially on the mask thing and the vaxxed thing, that people got into fights with people who weren't wearing masks, and people were getting to fights with people who were wearing masks because you're not agreeing with what I believe as far as the vaccination is concerned. So and then, of course divisiveness and behavior has gotten worse.
See I will play off the divisiveness.
One of the things that's always struck me is in some of these cases, not all by any stretch, but in some of these cases people get rankled because somebody, in their estimation, is getting away with something. It's doing something they can't. And I think that there is again that divide of the have the have not, or the entitled the unentitled, whatever it may be, where people are more sensitive to I'm not going to take it anymore. It's literally network, I'm mad as hell, and I'm not
going to take it anymore. You're doing something doesn't directly affect me, but I don't like that you're doing it, and so I'm gonna.
Well, I'll see you and I'll raise you. We see all over the internet people filming the anger stuff, so we now have behavior you can model that other people are doing it, and I think some people possibly are doing it intentionally. Well, that's going to.
Be an interesting question, I guess, because that's one of my big questions. Is you know, you can become famous or notorious by being filmed at your worst moment. And some people have paid a price for it, others have not. And I wonder how many people are going I don't care. At least everybody's.
Talking about on that note, let's yeah, let's let's find out when an expert has sate so joining us now is doctor Bryan Sultan, Assistant Professor of Clinical Psychiatry in the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University School. I know you go to schools and the Irving Medical Center in New York State Psychiatric Institute is an expert in the area's a d h D and cannabis use. But I read a bunch of stuff that you said, we'll say, welcome, welcome there you go, welcome to this. Why do you
always have to hit me? Why is it? Can you answer that question? Why he gets physical? Why does he go to physical right away?
I mean, he's he's trying, he's got a feeling, he's trying to express it. It's coming out. I mean, are we going to interpret it in a positive way? Are we going to choose to interpret it? How are we.
Going to how are we going to feel it?
I know what you were trying to do.
Well. I saw a lot of stuff you talked about about the personality of audience personalities and why they're getting worse and what the cause of that is. And we had we theorized that maybe the COVID thing, the mask thing, was very divisive. That was a new thing. It was very divisive, but also that societally right now, what we see is this behavior, and there's modeling. The question is have we forgotten as a society? Can you forget that quickly?
How to put I have gotten? As my mother would say, how to behave?
You know, this is definitely a complex issue, and it pulls in a lot of different disciplines and it's got a number of things coming into it. And I think you're right that lockdown in the pandemic is certainly like the most acute and directly related thing, you know, when we think about the fact that your social skills got rusty. And for people, lockdown varied in both intensity and duration. So for some people this is going to be more substantial.
I mean, there are patients in my practice that I saw before the pandemic and I'm still seeing them now that have never come in again for an appointment, and they continue to stay virtual and they are are still overwhelmingly at home a lot.
And this is this is today. So people's variation there was.
I'm sorry to interrupt. Do you see children in your practice at all?
I have to imagine that that to your interruption in what would be their normal socialization pattern or learning is and will continue to be a really disruptive source. Is there just a generation of kids that are socially behind the curve at this point? Yeah, So when we think about that, it's important. I always talk about with parents.
School is obviously about learning knowledge, Like I mean, I'm like super nerdy, I've gone and become a researcher and I did an MD, like I love school. I want to learn things. But schools also about your development. You're development socially, you're development emotionally. How do you tolerate things that are uncomfortable for you? How do you navigate difficult
situations successfully? And because our switch to virtual school was done so rapidly, teachers and parents and even kids, you know, I think universally found it to be sort of not
a great substitute for most individuals. And I think the most obvious thing that it's missing out on is this social emotional development, this stuff that that really was happening spontaneously in real life, interacting with one another in a classroom setting, and and and it was hard to replicate uh uh, you know through a remote a remote setup.
Are you are you concerned about where how will those kids catch up?
Or will they catch up.
I think it's reasonable to think that they're going to catch up or that they could catch up. We do think about neuroplasticity, which is the idea of like your brain and and and how pliable it is in learning new things. And we think about windows of time where you're better learning things, which is why like the younger you are, typically the easier is to learn another language, right, uh so, so like there's a little bit of that
that's that's working against us. But in general, these things can be uh learned in sort of a delayed way. And if you if you talk to to undergrad faculty, a lot of them will say that the last couple of years, they feel like the incoming freshmen have felt a little more fragile than than they were in the past, and and a little younger that those kids seem to be coming added maybe a couple of years younger than what it felt like before.
The other thing is a lot of this bad behavior in these groups. When you get together with a big group like that, it's a rare time when you have different socio economic groups in there, a different race, coll of religion, creators. It's not often that that happen, and that behavior seems to be getting worse and worse. More incidents happen when that happens. Do you think that is a partially because of COVID, but be because we're so divided and we don't yet we always stay with our
own group. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Yeah, so I think I think that.
That there's a way that this even interacts with another thing that we haven't touched on yet, which is smartphones and social media. And so social media creates these micro realities that we're all living in, right, these curated worlds. When I opened my Apple News, so like what I get is very specific. When I look at my my Facebook or my Instagram feed, it's very specific to me. And and and so I think that that that is another way that we are sort of staying in a
small group. Then is our that is that community, but interacting with other communities?
Right? You know?
I I have a friend of mine that loves to talk about the idea that like the reality of like what is going on in the world appears to be different to different people, which.
Is which is by the way, really scary. How do you navigate that? And it's dividing, so it's dividing us more and more and more because we don't forget shared experience, concert experience, we don't even share info.
So I mean, I think this is a huge problem that we have to be thinking about on a societal level. The your social media, the devices that we use, they were they were thoughtfully constructed on how to keep us engaged, right so the purpose of like marketing and things like that. But in doing so, they sort of created this back door into our mind that tends to bypass a lot of critical thinking that we have, which is one of the things that I always find like disturbing about it.
And I periodically will like delete one of these programs and take a hiatus from it, and I'll even feel something that is kind of like a withdrawal. There's a real connection, there's a real connection to that thing, and it plays with our mind.
So if I.
See negative behavior on there, getting back to the original conversation, I'm more likely to replicate that because it's actually contagious. The negative behavior that we might see. The algorithm is more than likely going to favor that, right because it's going to get a lot more attention. So now you're even more likely to see it. So it's it's proliferating throughout this system. But it's a consequence of the way this is said up.
As you're saying that if Jason and I see or you send me an our question and you're in our that somebody went crazy on a flight, now the algorithm is pushing me more of that stuff. And I'm thinking that all of society, this is happening all over every day, and it's much bigger than it is or not act.
But I also don't understand why the algorithm doesn't feed us the things that are gonna make us happier as opposed to the things that they know are probably going to agitate us to the extent that the algorithm can discern, which is which for any.
Anger appears to be much. They used to say about the Howard Stern Show, people that like Howard listen for an hour and twenty minute, people hate him listen for an hour forty minutes, And that probably applies. So if they can stimulate you that way and they find out boy, that works, they're gonna keep hitting that count of product to stimulate it that way.
Correct one hundred percent.
I mean, that's something that you're going to get pulled much more into We appear to be a little pre programmed our minds to respond in that way.
I think about these like as blind.
Spots that we have as a species that we need to be thinking about when we develop new technology and how it can affect us. And you know, the other thing that comes to mind we think about social media, for me is is this idea of like, how is it affecting our mental health? There is so much data that keeps supporting this idea that it's linked to depression
and anxiety and suicidal thoughts. There's a number of ways it could be doing that, but but for me, one of them is that it being on your phone all the time is not interacting with people in real life, and it tends to be less substantial interpersonal relationships, and we all need interpersonal relationships. That is, that is one of the most restorative thing we have. And you know, it's the basis for building out like a larger community, which again we're social creatures.
That's that's what matters to us.
Didn't you didn't you write I think it was you who said it used to be way back that we had about one hundred person one hundred people in our sphere, and that was our network, that was our morality, that was our modeling, that was our mentorship. So that group constantly kept you in check because you got to advocate with the group and understand who they were. They looked out for you. Today, our group is what how many
people do we think as a community. So kids have Facebook friends that are like twenty seven hundred Facebook friends forty thousand Facebook where he tries to build that number out, So we've lost that sense of community. Correct, it doesn't exist anymore.
We know from anthropology that that is like what our mind has been fine tuned to do well with is that number of relationships. Because you can trust the person, you know each other, you feel comfortable you're going to manage your own behavior if for no other reason, it is actually like detrimental for you to not do it in such a small community. If not, hopefully you're doing it out of kindness and wanting to sort of be
be giving to someone else. But there's a built in system around that that I think is completely diffused and diluted in the kind of social network you're describing.
I want to jump to something.
So we're talking about the reasons why we live in some agitation, why we're pressed while we're anxietal. But the phenomena that we're talking about in this episode is where people start to act it's just bad behavior. Something has put them over the top. Is there a common thread between a guy who flips out on an airplane because he's been asked to move his seat or a woman that goes up to a stranger in the park and goes, who are you? You don't live in this neighborhood, you
know what they call the Karen phenomena. Is there a common thread that runs through these people that tend to begin to behave badly.
I was thinking a lot about that leading up to this, because the exams samples of this bad behavior do vary a lot, as you just pointed out in that example. I think they fall into a couple of different categories.
One of them is.
I was thinking a lot about that leading up to this, because the examples of this bad behavior do vary a lot, as you just pointed out in that example. I think they fall into a couple of different categories. One of them is, you know, just general. I think the most just way to think about all this is like acting out what is the skill that you have available to
you to manage a situation. So if you're having trouble getting your overhead luggage up and you're stressed out and there are people behind you that want you to move, and you know, is there enough space and are they going to make me put the thing under? That kind of situation is putting a lot of pressure on someone and they may or may not have the skills to sort of manage it, and they then may act out in some way. They may act in an obnoxious or rude way, or be nasty to someone, to be irritable,
which is very upsetting to everyone else and is contagious. Unfortunately, that's sort of one version of something that we might that we.
Might interact with.
I think that there's another version, and I'm not sure what exactly to call this.
It's sort of like a I'm going to.
Do whatever I want to do regardless of how it affects the people around me.
And it feels I've just heard a term Peter, and I came across this main character syndrome or something like that.
Yeah, feels a little bit like almost like an extreme version of individualism.
But Ryan, we've been in power good luck twenty five years ago, calling the company and saying I'm going to rat you out because I had bad service click forget it today, I'm going to write a bad review. Oh no, and they'll do They'll send you a free product whatever. All of a sudden, a lot of people feel like VIPs, which I guess is part of that mean character syndrome where you feel like you have control over every situation. Prices are higher for stuff, so you feel more entitled. Hey,
this should have been because of COVID. People fired a lot of people, so customer service is down. We hired a lot, companies are purging, so you can't get the kind of service you did before. And then the behavior you're seeing from politicians, from sports celebrities, from people who are angry and do this stuff gets not only not punished, but rewarded. Why wouldn't I model that behavior if everything's built around me to complain to yelp?
But building off of what you just said, there's also a certain kind of learned narcissism because of the exalted ways that people are seeing celebrities treated, So they.
Go why them, why not me? And they're right by the way, why them?
Why not me, And so they start to have an expectation I think of also going uh huh, not just him, me too.
Well. And by the way, the instagram and influencers are celebrity sure, and they become celebrities by doing whatever they have to do to put out there in social media. It's hey, that could be me, you know, that's attainable.
I also didn't want to apply that I shouldn't be treated that way when I'm dining out, or I didn't mean to understand that.
I understand he's still a prince princess when he goes out to that he expects, he expects to be Actually, you don't know. You're very you're very cool about it.
There's not a lot of thinking about the consequence of my behavior, right, not.
Only that bad behaviors. You're told don't do this in school, and then you see people who are making a living doing it. You see people who are rewarded for doing You're seeing people lying, stealing, getting away with stuff, and you're going, wait a minute, I'm an idiot.
I feel like, but this is well, maybe this is a new phenomena. I was going to say, is for instance, to the extent that you know, is the Karen phenomena a new thing or is it just we have more cell phones now? There's are there just as many incidents as there ever were of people freaking out and mistreating people at random, but now we're capturing it or.
Is it a heightened There's data that supports that things have gone up. The FAA's number of unruly passengers per year has gone up. The likelihood that healthcare workers are reporting like disagreements, non violent confrontations with patients, that's gone up.
Road rage is I did look.
New York thinks it is because they're now going to police the subway somewhere.
Just on a practical level, if I'm on an airplane and someone is freaking out, is there something I can do to either protect myself or to help sort of diffuse the situation?
Is there something is happening either to you or around you.
You're not the one doing it?
Yeah?
Uh yeah, I mean I think that you know you.
You you want to choose the kindest way to think about what might be going on with that person, And so how can I react in a way that de escalates the situation, right, rather than escalating the situation, so that everyone can get to like a calmer place.
My wife did a.
Thing years ago that she was waiting for a train in New York sembly and I guess when the train pulled in, the doors open, and one guy waiting to go on cut in front of another guy waiting to go on. And the guy that got cut off spun the first guy around and punched him in the face and was about to do it again.
And my wife, I don't want to make up a story, she.
Either got in front of him or or grabbed his arm and just looked at him and in this very almost maternal way, went hey, hey, hey, don't do that.
Don't do that.
And the guy, she said, the guy kind of came back to reality and it drained out of him.
And you may have read that she pushed him on the track.
This beautiful, beautiful that she was able to come over with a different energy. Yeah, I mean, I don't think we talk enough about energy, probably because it's just a difficult thing to sort of like quantify scientifically or medically, But like, what is the vibe you're coming over with?
And it sounds like in the story she came over with like a.
Hey, we don't need to do this right, Like there's something.
Else we can do here.
I always think about I mean, I've never been on the on the victim side of a Karen like situation, but I know the minute the cell phone comes out, it's gonna it's going to become more confrontational. Not I wonder if and I don't know the situation that anybody
who's been approached by this is like. So I'm not saying that they did anything that was not right, but if I were approached by someone with that kind of agitation, I think my natural reaction would be to go, something I'm doing is aggravating you, something I'm doing is scaring you.
I don't mean to give you that, So how what how can I help you?
That's a very different stance, And that's a stance that I think will diffuse that for most people. It's it's not an aggressive stance. It's like a hey, tell me how I can be helpful. I'm really happy. I'm happy to hear that.
Doctor Ryan Sultan's thank you, thanks for coming in, appreciate it so much, and thanks for helping us a little bit with the audience. The audience anger. So the answer to that is we're getting angrier, and it's really complicated. It's a lot of levels of stuff. That a fact, that's I know that.
Why are you telling me like I don't know that?
How dare you? As your mother would say, just listen, listen, don't always jump in an answer, don't be so ready with an answer, mister, mister, I know everything. There you go. Do you feel like you're sitting down?
I'm trying to figure out what I can do with it. I neither your mama, And again.
I never knew you have an advantage.
My mother would have said, don't bother me. Don't bother me. Now I'm in the bedroom getting dressed, which is, by the way, you're sitting me up. And a lot of reasons for my problems today.
Thank you, sir, Thank you guys for having me a pleasure. So I hear what I didn't learn today from the good doctor. If I'm on stage and there's an outburst in the audience, what.
Am I suppose? Have you ever done it?
I've had Honestly, in all these years, I've had two things happen. I had I was in a play. I was in a Neil Simon play on Broadway. And yes I can imagine if I was sitting in the front row as an audience member, it would be a little uncomfortable because that stage is right in your face.
You're right up close.
And a lot of our Broadway one was during the winter, and people would put their winter coats up on the stage, on the stage, and I routinely would go and either kick them off. One time, I actually I grabbed a coat that was really on the stage and put it in the on stage closet and let that guy figure out. And then no, I had a guy During Jerome Robbins Broadway, someone yelled out. You could hear a commotion. Is there a doctor in the house? Is there a doctor in
the Oh my god. Okay, now now there's like something real And I'm on stage with this woman and we don't know what What are we supposed to do?
Are we supposed to go? Uh, someone's asking for a doctor? Do we stop? Do we do we go on? Do we ignore it? Let them do them? And we do us? What do we do?
Which is a real question for any of these interruptions. Now, it turned out in that particular case that someone sitting in the middle of an aisle had a wave of nausea and began to vomit. Now, that to me is a big interruption. It does not require a doctor to be in the house.
It requires you to go. I'm feeling a little queasy. Get the hell out of the middle of the aisle, right.
So what happened? Did everybody around us start doing thereby?
But there is no that I know of.
There is no protocol for how to handle a lot of.
Things that happened theater.
So you talked about Patty la Own, you know, yelling at people for cell phones. They make an announcement, turn off your cell phones. There's no photography. People guess how people are addicted.
What do you do?
Well? Okay, audience, etticate, do you believe in this? Remove your hat? Every should have their hat off.
Yes, I don't know who wears a hat anymore, but yes I have.
I have seen that, checking Facebook, Twitter, texting, doing stuff.
And no any source of light in a theater, a movie theater, or a theater theater is in it.
It's like you might as well be waving semaphore flags.
Be mindful of your body odor. I don't know how you tell somebody, how would you do that?
I have to assume I'm leaving the house going, Oh.
Control your children's behavior. We went to see the movie Don't bring Dude. We went to see what's the movie where college students, medical students take a guy to death? And then yeah, whatever that was for a toddler. Yeah, toddler to that movie. Who's running around screaming and crying? Yeah? Has anybody also yelled out? That's what she said doing a theater performance. No, I don't think so.
Somebody's been writing how about how about coming in costume?
How about leaving me consume.
Is actually okay? Really yeah, it's actually okay.
The salesman, you're okay, people are coming.
No, but I mean people do dress for Hamilton.
They dress like that that people have dressed for Mama Mia, some of the some of the jukebox musicals, grease.
You know, keep your comments neutral or positive. You know, you go to intermission to go that show suck. I thought that show was pretty.
You're talking to the author's mother and you don't know it's oh wow.
I've had that friend of mine, believe me.
Fortunately, to my knowledge, I don't think I've done it. But I have fat friends who have made a bit of a comment not knowing who is standing?
How about eating? People bring all kinds of craft that makes noise.
Yes, they make it. It can so they make an announcement.
Part of the opening announcement is if you've brought a lazenge or a hard wrapped candy unwrapped for them now.
Because it's.
You know, it's a well who knows? But yeah, eating no, but they do you know a lot of the theaters. Now you can take your alcoholic drink back to the seat.
Is that a good idea? Is that?
On the show Death of a Salesman?
Probably not helpful?
Cats go for it.
Let's say hi to David Brudenheim.
Babe, Well, listen, we've learned a lot about human nature.
People are not acting really well.
There's problems, there's interactions that are negative. So what's a way that we, starting as individuals, could maybe start to turn things around. And one of the things that has come into my life that I think might stem some of.
These problems is the four Agreements.
Have you guys heard?
Yes?
Four agreements? And I remember vague.
If I may, I if I can remember, and this is probably not in an order, but when I realized what they were.
We're not going to eat fatty foods. Right one, Right, I'm not gonna stands a belt.
No, it was. It was be mindful of your words, right, Be careful with what you say.
Be impeccable with your word.
Yes, one of those. Don't assume you understand. Don't you assume what the other person that you know what the other where the other person is coming from, necessarily because they have a different mindset than you do. So don't assume who they are.
Don't assume, watch your words.
Don't make assumptions, Yes.
Don't make assumptions. Another one, the last one I think is just do your don't don't beat yourself up. Just do the best you can every day. Do always do your best, do your best. And I don't remember the fourth one. The fourth one is something about The.
Fourth one is one of the very important ones. Don't take anything personally.
That's a hard one. That's a hard one. Yeah, that's why I didn't remember, because I take everyone That is hard.
How do you do that? And it is personal? Somebody means it personal.
Because they're projecting, they're projecting their deal on you. Rather than this takes us back.
Talk about cross referencing our episodes.
Let's remember our dear friend from the Institute of Forgiveness. When someone says something to you, the question you ask is why are they so broken? Why would they say that to me? Because they're broken, they're hurting, they're feeling that they're unfinished, unloved.
Unless unless they're correct. That's why I forgot that one, because it's like, say it again, don't, don't what is it, don't don't project, don't look so somebody's criticizing you. Don't don't and.
Don't project it.
Don't assume you know, don't watch your words, and don't.
Take it personally.
Don't take it personal.
If they're accurate, I actually can't take that. First seven people are saying, you're asking, yeah, I'm not taking this personally. Twenty three paper.
I think that's when they say it's a coincidence, and I'm not.
If one person saying it's there, it's their thought. If it's twenty people, it's coincidence, thank you, thank you. If twenty people there were the wrong, coincidence.
Yeah.
And on that note, there's no better note to go out than love who you are, because if people criticize you, it's just a coincidence. David, thank you, Oh my.
Really no, really, we are.
Helping the world, one person at a time. We are the waybe maybe if that, if that, I don't take it personally, thank you, producer, Laurie, don't take it personally. Take it person Thank you for listening. Everybody who's listening taking person Yeah, all right, but they're doing it that. It's going everybody hates watch my mom. You know what every saying about you. I wish I could say he.
Now, really that's another episode of Really No Really comes to a close. They know you're wondering, given all the bad and criminal behavior out there, what is the longest prison term ever given to a single prisoner? The answer will amaze you. But first let's thank our guest, doctor Ryan Sultan. He is the director of Integrative psych as well as being director of Sultan Live at Columbia University. You can follow him on Instagram where he is at Our Sultan MD and on x where he is at
Doctor Ryan Sultan. Our little show hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and threads at Really No Really Podcast, and of course you can.
Share your thoughts and feedback with us online at reallynoreally dot com.
If you have a really some amazing fact or story that boggles your mind, share it with us and if we use it, we will send you a little gift. Nothing life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts. Check out our full episodes on YouTube. Hit that subscribe button and take that bell so you're updated when we release new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday. So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And now, now, what is the longest prison sentence ever given to a single prisoner? That distinction belongs to a woman in Thailand named Chamoi Thipiasso. Miss Tipiasso was a former employee of the Petroleum Authority of Thailand when she decided to launch
a deep reaching pyramid scheme. Using her connections to the petroleum authority in the Royal Thai Air Force, she managed to build nearly sixteen thousand investors into a fraudulent petroleum fund that earned her a total take estimated to be between two hundred and three hundred million dollars over twenty years.
When she was finally caught and brought to trial, Not only was the vast majority of the fraudulent funds returned to the victims, but miss Tipiasso broke all sentencing records when the Thai court sentenced her to one hundred and forty one thousand, seventy eight years in prison. Now, if that seems a little bit harsh to you, take comfort in knowing that Thay law at the time only allowed for a twenty year maximum term, and Chamoi didn't even serve that.
Her sentence was reduced twice more, and eventually.
She only wound up serving a total of four year years prison time, which had to have been pretty galling for that tie judge. I mean, you go to the trouble of giving somebody a record breaking prison sentence and it gets reduced by thirty five thousand, two hundred and fifty times, I'd be mad. No Really, No Really is a production of iHeartRadio and Blois Entertainment.