The Secrets of Scent Marketing – How Smells are Manipulating Your Behavior

I can always smell when someone's cheating, like if their husband and wife is to No, you can't, Yeah, I can if it's it's a cur Really, and.

You're sure this should have been the start?

Really now, really, really.

Now, really hello, and welcome to really Know Really with day's Alexander and Peter Tilben, who remind you there is no sweeter smelled in success and ours depends on you. So if you enjoy our show, please subscribe. And speaking of sweet smells, this episode reveals the secrets of the forty billion dollars cent marketing industry. Internationally recognized olfactory expert Dawn Goldworm explains how smells can be used to influence

And who you were with last night? Really no, really, now you're a Jason and Peter.

I think today's topic is going to be something right up your rally, because.

A nose isn't I'm just saying, I'm just saying I didn't anticipate that that's where we were going to start. And uh, by the way, you have a lovely, uh fragrance about you today?

Are you wearing anything? Are you wearing I.

Always wear something light. I know it's light like a light. I don't know.

You don't know.

I don't know you put it on, you know what? I have many different sense so I don't know. They're all good?

And the other week? Do you do a cent for every day of the week?

You're inquisitive?

Is it a mood?

A mood like George Costanzo would dress for his mood?

Are you doing a mood?

Know?

No?

I just I have certain sense that I like and I have them and I can you name one of them? No, I don't notice what they are. No, because when I run out of a scent, Yeah, I just try something different. I just like to try and.

Am Well, you're you're an advertisements dream, aren't you. Most people by your age have decided grass is their toothpaste, their cold getting you.

I should use like Polo for the rest of my life. That's right, And I'm then a ninety year old that smells like a dead Ralph Lauren Ralph lare No. I like. I like experimenting with sense, which is why today's today's episode. Yeah, very it's fascinating to me because you know, I read a lot and I knew kind of that, like Disneyland has Smellitzers. And then I saw the really, no, really is that the upcoming trend is digitizing smell. And I started to go deep and I saw they're trying to

You did it?

As woman is the co founder and knows or Scent director of her Olfactive branding company twelve twenty nine. I believe it's like a date maybe, and it uses the visceral language of scent to transform brand building in the actual buildings where clients reside. She spent five years in per Hunry School. I spent two years in acting school. What she does better than I do? What I She also has a master's degree at New York University, where

Are you? Are you there?

Because you don't want to either give us your fragrance or chance, the fact, whatever the hell Peter's wearing.

You just don't want to be abused by it.

I try to keep a screen between me and most people that I don't know to smell that.

Well, let's jump in, we'll jump into that if you can explain, because this is fascinating to start with this, explain what sinnith synesthesia is that you and your sister both have well, how do you say it?

Synesthesia?

Synesthesia? Because this is this is this launches the whole deal.

I guess synesthesia is a particular way of seeing the world.

They used to think it was a disease.

But essentially, as you get inputs, sensorial input, your brain doesn't codify it or understand it the way most people's does. So for instance, some cinistiats when they hear music, they taste it.

Oh, I have.

Right, Or so when you some people see letters and numbers and they don't actually see them as black and white, they see the colors. So there's various different types of sinacs there. What I have five different types of synaseeses. So my life is kind of like an LSD trip at all times, Like I'm constantly getting input and it's

Really, I just do it all.

Wow, Let me just test this a little bit.

So if I if I were to pass essence of rose under you, you would see.

I see well, I would see pink, green, red, yellow, and brown.

You would probably see pink.

I would probably that's what I was thinking. I would see pink.

And if I if I put the smell of garlic under you, what do you see?

That's interesting. So food has a different association.

So all factive preferences, which are what we like and what we don't like, are built through culture, generation and living environment, and food is a.

Big part of that.

So the globalization of food and how it moves and what you're exposed to can change your color association.

So we tend not to do it with food. We do it with things that are pure factants.

So things that you just smell that you don't you don't retronasally put into your mouth and understand. Meaning you know, there's automolecules everywhere, So if you smell them with your nose, that's what we play this game with, not which you would smell through your mouth.

Right, some lawn grass.

What do you see the grass we do it with.

So if you give someone haxanol, which is the smell of grass, it's a synthetic molecule that we recreated. This smell like grass because we can't get anything out of grass. Everyone says it smells green.

Obviously, yeah, is that because of the amount of chlorophyll that's in plant material?

Is that? Do we associate chlorophyll with a green color?

With green? You know?

So we don't completely understand why this color and smell association exists in.

Humans because obviously we don't know if it exists.

In animals so much because we're not allowed to cut open the human brain. But what we seem to understand if it's some kind of young in our typical response, and about ninety seven percent.

Of people globally have it.

So we've done tests all around the world to understand if you give people a color board, even if you give them crayons, or paint. Everyone colors the same picture given. First, we start with raw materials like rose, like veterver, like mandarin, things that people might know, and then we go into simple formulas to see if it still happens the same way.

Skew, so they'll use colors they like.

And with Instagram and Facebook and phones, people use more blue and purple just because they like blue and purple based on social media.

There's so much I want to ask you. Let's go to the digitization first, is that, in fact happening. Are we minutes away from seeing a picture on a phone and smelling what that picture is? Because I heard they're trying not only to do that, but when you get it closer to your nose that the rose gets more powerful. You're laughing. So it's enough.

About ten years ago, so I meditated in the morning. About ten years ago.

So I was sitting in meditating, and I just moved back from Paris and we were starting this company in our apartments.

I'm sitting in meditating.

I pick up my phone when I'm done, and there's an email from a friend of mine who's a very famous perfumer, and he sends me an emails saying Google's finally figured it out. Google Nose is launching now, and I runt my computer in the living room and I'm trying to download on my phone.

It's not working. I'm not really good with tech, but I'm trying to hoload it.

On my screen and I'm going like this and I'm trying to smell the screen, and my sister comes in, my identical twin sister who I started the company, was just like.

What are you doing? And I was like, Google nos it's happening. I just can't get it to download.

And scroll down to the bottom and it says you either don't have the latest software or maybe it's just a book fool's day.

Oh, And my sister is like, why did you think all of this sudden? The entire palette of fragrance ingredients was in your computer and you'd be able to smell it.

And I was like, I have no idea.

Because, as far as you know, fragrance would not be able to transmit electronically.

Right.

It's a chemical, So there.

Are phones that Japan manufactured, ah, this must have been about ten years ago that do a metodor. They put fragrance materials in the back of the phone and they used heat so that when someone calls you, you know, heat would activate the molecules and they would become airborne and viatol and you could smell them.

So it's totally possible.

But it's not that the technology to transmit this information isn't there. We have that electronically. What we don't have is a way to put the actual fragrance ingredients in the machine to get it, because first of all, it has an expiration. They you know, it's it's delicate, it's sensitive, like what levels would we.

Put it at?

Which chemicals do we feel are safe in the hands of consumers, Like it's it's yeah, we're not even close.

So aside from that, part of this was about the fact that the New York Times has said that more and more industries that you would never suspect would be using scent marketing and a couple that with scent is so powerful it can increase customers spend by twenty percent. Sometimes I've read about food markets to pipe at a gas station piped in coffee smell and took their coffee sales up three hundred percent. But the weirdest one for

So we don't do hard ROI. But what we do test is loyalty.

So when we work with a brand versus an unsent environment and then when it becomes scented, the.

Way we test loyalty is people start coming and asking.

They said, you know, I've been here a few times and I just love the experience I'm having and it smells so good. Can I bring that home? And then you start getting asked over and over again, can I bring this mall home? Can I bring this mall home?

And we work with banks.

If someone wants to bring the smell of a bank to their house, I think.

You did a good job.

You're sitting in here living room somebody else make a deposit.

Wow, But you also did.

I read that you helped Nike develop a signature scent for their stores.

We did.

We worked with Nike for many years pre covid. Nike is, you know, arguably the biggest brand in the world. It is not one of the biggest, so their target market is huge. How do you create a scent for everyone in the world? And so I look at their target profile and I said, okay, what combines all of these different groups of people from feet my sister's son to my grandmother to like guys that go to the gym, to skateboarders, like everyone all over the world. And what

It's a specific related. Now, Okay, I used to be an advertising. You present your creative to the company, and again you do all the work up front, and then you create, you send to three people who are deciding or the chairman's wife. It's really subjective. So you may have done the right work. How do you sell it to the company so that somebody there who has no idea about this stuff? I mean like we're sitting here in a gape going, oh my god, I can't believe

Yes when the scent comes back. There's hundreds of people sometimes that.

Have to reprove it right. So how do we do that right?

Well, your old fact of preferences are not subjective, like you think you like what you like.

Now.

I heard you talking about the colonial wear and you're a butterfly. We call you a butterfly. You're constantly picking a new one, and you think, well, my sense is smell is my own, and it's not as good as my friends, or it's different than my wife's. But that's actually not necessarily true. So our old facts of preferences are based on our childhood, which is conditioned by our generation,

Wow.

I heard you say in a in a Ted talk that babies in utero can smell the food their mothers eat.

Isn't that amazing?

And is that so?

I guess that's part of that building of preferences and emotional and responsible.

Well, if your mother eats a lot of onions, then you tend not to like onions when you get.

Out, really, but yeah, when you get out, what's the most unique? Like I'm looking at financial service USUS Internet screaming services, you know, on and on and on. Are there anything you go? Yeah, that's an insurance guy. Can't do an insurance company because that doesn't that doesn't evoke a smell for me, or do you go? Of course I can tax it's the smell of a car wreck. You know, there's there's threatening So is there anything that's that flamoxes you where you go? I can't do that?

Sure? I mean there is smells around us at all times. There is never a situation you're in where there is not a smell. Now, there may be situations where you can close your eyes and not see anything. You can close your ears and pretend like there are background noises.

You know, you cannot touch anything, so you don't have any sensation on your skin or putting anything in your mouth to have flavor. But you can never turn off your nose, not even when you're sleeping. So everything has a smell. Whether we want to give it a smell or not is another story.

But yeah, sure, So what was the most unusual scent you were ever asked? The bespoke scent where somebody came to you and said, you do this.

What do I want to mention? I've been asked to do all sorts of interesting projects.

Come on, John, give it up.

I want to mention on film. I've been asked to recreate the smell of people, various different parts of people, different body fluids. I've been asked to recreate the smell of someone's nightmare. I've been asked to recreate the smell of a horse's mouth, a puppy, puppy's breath.

You've done signature perfume sense for celebrities?

Yeah?

Yes, is that a What is the process of that? You've done signature perfume sense for celebrities?

Yeah?

Yeah, is that a What is the process of that?

Do they talk about their lifestyle, that they talk about their dreams? How do you start to cobble together something that becomes someone's signature scent?

Well, so, when you work with a person, it's not so dissimilar to work with a brand.

It's just people are a little bit more.

Complex because they're not manufactured as such to communicate as easily.

And so when you're sitting down with a.

Celebrity and you ask them, you know, you have to get to the essence of who they are and depending on what they do for work. Sometimes that's a way in So when I worked with Lady Gaga, you know, I asked for about our music. I said, what does your music look like? What's the color, what's the shape, what's the temperature? How does it flow? If I had to draw your music, what would it look like? What is the emotion? How do you want people to feel?

Did she okay? So when you did that for her, is she immediately your first your first result that you gave her to sample? Did she go? You got it? I get it?

Yeah.

I was still in house at Cody at the time, and they had me work on a variety of directions before I met her. So I brought a bunch of directions and she wasn't into any of them, and so I asked her this process. I started asking all these deep questions about herself. And then I left for a month and I came back with two directions and she couldn't decide which one she liked more.

Wow, She's like, oh my god, is that am I?

This one?

This one, this one? And she was obsessed with both of them.

It's just it's her translated into a smell without giving you like the whole process.

Sure, yeah, yeah.

Do people come to you and say, we want to increase productivity, What sent can you pipe into this building through the h vract to make people more productive?

They do.

Yes, you know, there's a line where it can be a little bit manipulative, and I try not to cross that, but it really, really really want your employees to be more productive.

Maybe you should incentivize them more, but.

It really it is. But you're saying, there is that potential someone could do that?

Oh? Absolutely yeah.

And conversely, because I know, or at least I think I know, that the military at some point and maybe they still are, was playing with a a scent weapon, some sort of some sort of smell that could be projected that was supposedly so terrible it would incapacitate anybody.

So I can tell your story from World War Two, the Defense Department thought they were clever and wanted to create an all factive weapon, and they did, and they used it and it did not work. Now they have all factive weapons today that do work. But at the time, and this is kind of funny, they thought if they just sprayed the smell of poop on their enemy that they would just go away running.

They'd be like, oh my god, just run away.

Now a Marins have a profound reaction to the smell of defecation. Like we teach children that it's a bad smell that doesn't happen in the rest of the world, and so no one thinks the smell is bad.

And so when the defense department said.

Hey, we're so clever, let's just throw the smell on our enemy, nothing happened.

They went, oh, oh nice, what are the I'm looking at a list of the ten worse smells, and you just the poo thing was fascinating because, like you said, culturally, it doesn't exist in other cultures. Are there universal bad smells other than that?

No, So the only universal bad smell is the smell of a dead body. There is one universal good smell though. On the flip side, can I take a bet?

I think I know what it is, do it?

I'm guessing if it's universal, it's something like a citrus smell some sort of orange or lemon kind of thing.

Can I say baked bread? And that seems possibly universal? No, so neither.

The only universal smell that everyone likes is a chemical called vanolin because it naturally occurs in breast milk and it's reproduced if someone's bottle fed, and so everyone likes vanilla.

Vanilla, But then, okay, vanilla, please please go with this.

Let's see if she knows.

Okay, So if the expert knows with vanilla, what a way to go out?

I see my next formula in my future.

John, do you know where vanilla comes from? When it's not the bean? Do you know where else they get vanilla from? Because in the history of our show we have found out where.

In the fragrance industry we get vanilla from two places. We either get it from the orchid from the bean. Are we created in a lab?

No, there's another source. Are you ready to change your work? You gonna change your world? It has an animal source.

Oh, then we definitely don't use it. We don't.

It is it comes from the anal glands of a beaver.

Oh that's historian. That's in the same category. But it's not the same ingredient. It smells different.

Apparently our entire No, no, no, no, no.

What I love about it? You're accurate, But she goes, yeah, this is the kind of so before we go, last thing looking at us? Really? No, really, what scent do you get? Yeah? Really?

No, really?

What's there putting out there?

I think that if I was sitting with you, i'd be able to smell what you eat in today. I think i'd definitely be able to smell your laundry detergent. I'd be able to smell if you have any pets. They can normally smell if people have pets, and maybe your wives.

Yeah, wow, wow, I I you know what. She scares me.

Just by the way, by the way, I'm not going and I can smell when you eat?

I can.

I would like to know have the thing I ate last night being repeated now, I would be so wow.

Really onion rings and uh and what you know?

Wow?

Wow, yeah, it's think of it. Yeah.

The people have dated to take a lot of showers. I always thought it was their issue.

Do they do?

They cheat on you in the sense, not cheating with somebody else, but they cheat on their smell. So until the fifth date, you don't find out they're real.

Yeah, done today. I'm gonna win.

When someone's cheating, not on me.

I mean I can tell people like if their husband and wife is no, you can't, Yeah, I can.

If it's this should have been the start, you know, really of this episode.

Right forget we haven't get your phone.

It's done.

Smell cheating. I'm getting the name Dolores.

Because the person you're cheating with eight you rich.

So you've been out with people friends of yours that smell the same repeatedly, and then you.

Go, hmmm, ste something on the side.

Really and you're sure in your world you're pretty sure.

Well, what if Steve just got close to his secretary that day?

I mean, you don't know, cousin.

It's a different smell. So when I'm in the office.

When I was in the office in Paris, people would come up to me, like some of the girls would come up to me, and I'd be like, do you have a good time last night? And they were like I showered. I'm like, she used more soap.

I don't know, excuse me. I don't know how much you get paid for what you do, but I see there's another revenue stream here, it's enormous.

Us well, first of people, buy every freaking detective show has been on television. We've never had heart hell with me, you know, you know, magnum p. I'm telling you about Down Goldwar, all right, get me the notes on NBC Thursday Night.

Down.

Thank you, Thank you for coming on and fascinating, fascinating thing that you do, the specialty you're in.

Yeah, it was fine.

Honestly I haven't last that hard in the last month, so thank you very much.

So I just want to say she was fantastic and my wife will listen to this episode and her life will get that much worse because Dana and not abide smells that aren't supposed to be there, so like any artificial smell, any kind of perfume, scented candle, a cologne, and.

It's almost distasteful to her.

Even like when we're in the car, if I pop a tic tack in my mouth, she goes, you had to you had even.

A data come on a ticktok you by the way, you need one now, you know. Aside from sin, I just this just was breaking news that that got me as far as there are ways that people that the companies use. I would say trickery things to get you to buy. But the most amazing story today I got some tricks that I mean they go price anchoring where they give you three prices and they don't want you to pay the top price. They want to play the

Well, I hope nothing happens because done will be able to smell.

It two hours. How about that? And they find that there are lots of people that even like your wife is sensitive this just need a break from the lighting and from them and the sampling of that. We can tell you through quyet sensory Walmart where America is a sensory friendly environment.

On the other side of that, I just know anecdotally from my from playing poker in Vegas, the casinos are also looking for signature sense. And I know, at least I know years ago. I haven't played at the Aria for a while, but the Aria Hotel their poker room vanilla. It was been or what I would think of it, and it was this beautiful scent and you just felt good being there.

You didn't want to.

Casinos are playing. They did a study with slots, slots in a room that's scented, Yeah, more more playing. Sixty three percent of MRI patients when we have vanilla aroma reported reduced anxiety for the Camara. Yeah it's smell, is really.

It's past saw. We don't even think about it.

And she's so she's so interesting when she said, we can we can read off and not apply any other sense. We can plug our ears, close our eye and do that, shut our mouth, but you can't stop smelling. There's whack that there's a constant sort of input there.

One study found that choppers were more willing to help strangers outside of a bakery than a clothing store. Well, sure because of the same Yeah, isn't that sure? So if you're in trouble, we're getting held up trying to move to that or move from being assaulted in front of a clothing store to a bakery.

Yeah, I just this is an automotive story.

If we could just I just want to move over to Yeah, David Gogolheim, what did we learn today?

My friend? What did we miss?

Well, I'm going to be keeping vanilla with me at all times.

It's multi purpose, it is. Yeah.

So I was I wanted to give you, guys.

I wanted to give you guys an old factory challenge.

I wanted to see how much you.

Know about smells and the science of smellstall all right, all right?

True or false? True or false?

Laboratory mind to have for generation, never encountered a cat become fearful when smelling an unseen That's true, that is absolutely true?

Correct, all right? True or false?

The planet Uranus, and yes, that is the proper pronunciation that it is. The way is probably the worst smelling of the eighth planet. Atmosphere is made up mostly of.

Methane.

There you go, true or false? True?

True? True?

Well, no, wait, wait, wait, no, it has to be false.

Methane comes from carbon based life forms. It has to very.

The worst planet would be Astronomers.

Have discovered that hydrogen sulfide is abundant on uranus, and it creates, of course, the distinctive smell of rotten eggs. Okay, yes, if you think that one's bad, wait for this one.

But I do have a palate clenser coming out goodness.

If properly preserved, how long can human excrement smell this is A B or C A B or C A enzymes inherent in feces devour the molecules that cause the odor after about one hundred and twenty days B Given optimal conditions, human excrement can and being seventy five percent water to twenty five percent solid waste, takes about twenty years for the one hundred billion bacteria contained therein to consume the futured substance or C seven hundred years.

Oh, come on, I didn't think any of that. I am lying around my house. Chance, I'm going to go with the smallest one. I think it's one hundred days or so.

Whatever you said, I would say yes, because I would be surprised yeah, I would be surprised, not uh incorrect. It is c. Seven hundred For years.

It'll smell archaeology, And I have to get back to the Yellowstone because I've done something really.

Yeah. Yeah, we all have on camping trips. But you know what's great for me that a scientist somewhere when yeah, we found seven hundred year old whoa yeah, yeah, well that's actually exactly it.

Archaeologists excavating a seven hundred year old medieval latrine in the Danish city of Odens found that the fourteenth century toilets, which were nothing more than repurposed barrels, contained freaking poop.

Do you know what they tell? Who was having affairs from there?

Do you know what's amazing about that?

There was a little bit more of that, I'll tell you, but whatever, it's a very exciting latree.

All right, give us the palate clenser.

All right, last one?

Last one true or false will make it a little more simple through or false. Smelling coffee ground lenses your nasal.

Pal oh, I would imagine that's kind of true.

Only the neti pot cleanses yourn.

I imagine the smell of coffee is a good?

Is a good? Ye maybe yeah, false false.

You know what, David, I know even through the screen, I can tidy You're a thinker.

I have a sacred By the way you came where I was last night, But Donda, you came on.

Don knows where said I think has been. By the way you come on to give us fake facts. We looked at you for information, right, Yes, I'm having you the information.

I give you a little mystery. Friends aren't gonna come and I got it, but I got I got the solution for you, for for the for the false.

Okay, Doctor Alexis Graffansky, the of bell Wah College Department of Psychology, has scientifically proven that coffee beans do nothing to cleanse or reset your old factory palette. A more scientific way to do that smell your own deodorant free.

Are sure?

You know?

They really are pushing science forward at bell Wi Universe So funds.

You come here, so we gave you three hundred million dollars. Yeah, what do you find? Yeah, you know what. Aren't doing it? Corfy grinds aren't doing it three hundred million.

Okay, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave something here in your office. They're gonna smell seven hundred years from now. Thank you very much, and I thank you very much. I just want to thank everybody. Laurie, Elizabeth, David and Peter, thank you for whatever the hell you put on this morning that you're not aware of.

Good Night everybody.

Now that's another episode.

If Really No Really comes to a close, you may be wondering what are the number one best selling men's cologne and women's perfume in the world.

And I'll give you that answer in a moment, but first let's thank our guest Don Goldworm.

You can follow Dawn on Instagram where she is at Dawn Underscore Goldworm and at twelve twenty nine on Twitter as at Dawn Kieran. Her website is twelve twenty nine cent dot com, and you can enjoy Dawn's ted talk.

How to control emotions and influence behavior.

Find all pertinent links in our show notes, our little show hangs out on Instagram, TikTok YouTube, and threads at Really No Really Podcast, And of course, you can share your thoughts and feedback with us online at reallynoreally dot com. If you have a really some amazing factor story that boggles your mind, share it with us and if we use it, we will send you a little gift.

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