Our Digital Miscommunication Crisis + Ways to Avert it!

Really now really.

Really, no, really hello, and welcome to really know Really With Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden. This episode is about how often we miscommunicate, our tendency to interpret text messages as negative, the issues of video conferencing, the phenomena of phone phobia, and the value of using emojis, like if we texted you and said please subscribe heart and prayer hands emoji, maybe you'd do it. So please subscribe heart and prayer hands. And now here's Jason and Peter, Hello everybody.

And even that could be misinterpreted. I say hello everybody, and it could be misinterpreted. That's that's oh yeah, I mean why did he say hello and not I? And why is it everybody doesn't include me? Are really today? Is that recipients of say, a two word email or a text such as nice job or great work is misinterpreted as being sarcastic or snyn and.

Give the answer. Yet let him think, what do you think? The number is at home six sixty percent of the time, And it started with me and producer Lauria. And she's not going to get mad if I say this, But Laurie has an angry, resting place, and I've known Lauria and a lover for twenty five years who worked together. But I was getting text while you were away doing Broadway, and it was like, we're doing this, and I was realizing I'm taking them negatively, right, So then we started

That made what that analogy made no sense. I don't want to.

No, we have a negative default, and he'll talk about it.

I think negative default because we were cavemen.

Because of response of fighting.

If you said to a caveman, nice job, he went, oh, we.

Go, yeah job. And by the way, today one in five office workers say they have been reprimanded, demoted, or even fired over misinterpreted messages. And texting is the way we're going. It's it's becoming more prevalent than email because it's convenient. So let's say how to do yes.

But this man is an expert in in body language and RHETORICI you you coach public speaking, you are a renowned teacher and author. You're I think we are very is fortunate to have you here. If he's hearing anything other than what I intend right now, I'm in big trouble. I'm being very flattering, are and I am being very Did I do it right? Doctor Moore?

Beautifully warm and at home and well loved?

Well? Thank you? That is Jason.

So was I right about the fact that texting is now picking over? Where is this all going.

Well, it's all going to be misunderstood at at a really startling and alarming rate. And that's the real issue. I urge people to use smiley faces and emoticons of various kinds, even if you think they're childish, because that at least produces the negative bias that we're talking about earlier, which is profound.

And just to.

Explain doctor Alexander what it's about. You imagine yourself as a as a cave person leaving the cave and walking through the savannah or the jungle or whatever, and you see a shadow out of the corner of your eye if you're uh kind of California dude, and you go, hey, cool, that's just a nice shadow. The next thing that happens is you get eaten by a sabertoothed tiger. If you're

Research, by the way, tells me that the sabertooth tiger and the Homo sapien did not co exist at the same time, according to the tar pets where I'm told. But that's fine. I understand what he's saying, and you know what ext predators.

Hey, the subtext I am not an expert in, but what you're hearing here from my partners.

The subtext here is because I proposed that and was correct, and you reinforced it. He's a little bit irritic just to tad that is correct.

You communicated that perfectly. That is correct.

I've seen that in all these surveys in businesses they feel their emoticon and stuff. Emojis are less than professional, especially over a certain age, under a certain age, much more acceptable over a certain age.

And and to tack onto that, there are so many of them now that you know. I sometimes I'll send a text and I'll try and be creative. So there's one that's like a goofy face, you know, and I'll put that on and and then I go, well, I wonder if that can be misinterpreted that I'm what you know, that doesn't say probably specifically enough, so yeah, it's you probably get misunderstood, or it probably means something already.

Yeah, thanks to the teenagers some of whom may be watching, they've already appropriated and used it for something else. I like to use the laughter face with the two tears coming down out of the eyes, and my son, my teenage son, tells me that that's I can't do that anymore. That doesn't mean I won't tell me what it means, but he says, it doesn't mean what I think.

He won't tell you what it means.

No, you won't, he said. As I'm it's I'm hopeless. I'm too old, too very.

Much sweet relationship good with son. Doesn't it feel like i't home even the expert son's going on.

Yeah, But that's just to sort of drill into that a little bit, because I have the same situation with my grown sons. I have a thirty one and twenty seven year old son, and Peter has grown children too. It's hard, just hard. It feels like they call this in some ways the age of communication. I find that communication in general is getting harder and harder and harder,

Yeah, people take offense, and the reason is that what we care about is each other's intent, and intent comes through strongly.

Face to face.

We have the five senses, and we get facial expressions and a smile and a nod, and when we move closer to people, we warm up the relationship. You can't do any of that on a text, and so the potential for it being negatively interpreted is vast. And on top of that, you reference that we're sending more and more texts. We're getting drowned in more and more information.

We're also multitest driving in today, I just was looking around more than usual to see how many people were texting while they're driving. So I don't even have your full attention while you're texting me back.

You don't even or sadly you have their fish and the driver next to the crash.

The part of this that I think comes through that Laurie and I were joking about the Goddess into the episode, was it also diminishes the person who's receiving it. You write something heartfelt and somebody sends you back liked, they hit one button to say you couldn't even get your thumbs going to say hey, I really appreciate you. I mean, that is diminishing. And I think that all that does.

So if the.

Errors are that prevalent, how is that impacting society? What are we getting wrong societally that's chipping away at our communication?

Well, I think the evidence is all around us. I mean, especially during the pandemic, incidents of mental health issues went up and up and up, and drug abuse and alcohol abuse and so on them we became more depressed, more alienated, and more isolated lonelier as a society, and the face to face interaction is one way to help that get a little bit better.

Doctor Morton.

Is, there seems to be even in face to face communication, there seems to be so many more, for lack of a better word, landmines, unintended mishaps or insults, or this whole canceling phenomena. Sometimes somebody espouses something which is really reprehensible and they pay a social price for it. But sometimes it's truly unintended, or they're discussing something that has you know, it's more than just a cut and dry thing.

So?

How do you, how do you deal with that?

Well, I think that's well, first of all, it's an interesting question, and second, I think it's a it's sort of a combination of trends that are ultimately healthy for society and trends which are not healthy. And a lot of the issues that we're talking about have no question, been made worse by the by the digital world we're living in. No question, we're also becoming more open. I mean, when I started in the public speaking business, somebody was going to get up and speak. They would never share

So how have we changed it for COVID? How much. Had society change, I know that zoom, we probably wouldn't be able to do this. And I'm not sure of the year when this happened, but it used to be guessing we're in person stuff. Now it's acceptable.

Zoom is the zoom became a thing during the pandemic? I mean, I know, I think it existed before the pandemic, But has it changed in any profound way the way we communicate, the way we do this has videocy Yeah.

Oh absolutely what I was working on a book on virtual communications in twenty seventeen, I would ask people in the Fortune thousand company how much videocarpacying do you do? How widespread is it in organization? It turned out on average it was five percent organization use video currency. In twenty twenty, I happened to call back one of the CEOs I had interviewed in twenty seventeen. I said, how you doing and he said, yeah, it took us three days,

Wow. But anecdotally it's also created a situation. Again, one of my big things is I always prefer real human contact rather than technology. But I anecdotally know more people who are really upset when they're when the mandate is let's get back to the office, they don't want They much prefer this. They don't want to get back to

Well I'm smiling because I worked with a number of companies, with the executives and the companies to figure out how to communicate with their employees during the during the pandemic, and they when of the pandemics started easing, set up these task forces and committees to study what what would be the ideal amount of time in office versus on Zoom or on video comfting. And one company I remember in particularly because this happened pretty recently, studied the problem

I have to long pants. How about just pants? Curing?

I mean, give me yes, please, looking I can't take my dog for a walk. You know a lot of things that I got used to doing. Hang out with my kids for an hour during the middle of the day when they come home from school. You know, those kind of things really made for a nice quality of life. And by the way, most of those employees were more productive, but it didn't work for the management and guess who runs companies.

And the management teams.

Research showed that eye contact is important and people don't make eye contact as much on Zoom. And then I saw also with interviews, especially a first interviews, job much more negative if the interview is done on Zoom than it's done on person because they can't get all of the rest of the stuff. So again, are they trying to Is there a way to make Zoom better from a communication standpoint that you see.

The real reason that you have those experiences, The real reason Zoom or any video communication isn't really great yet is something that they don't teach you about in school. It's called appropriate reception. It's your sixth sense, and it's the sense that you use unconsciously to keep track of where you are in space so you don't bump into things, and where the people around you are in space. And that's very important to us. We care very much whether

I actually worked with an improvisation company that was on a Zoom sort of beta test. It was it was not Zoom, it was something else where they could move forward and back in the screen. They could they could sort of keep a distance so it looked like they were, you know, further way or if they wanted to emphasize something or take the stage. Because it was an improt it was a way to do improvisation on a screen. They could move forward and move downstage. It was very strange.

I have to see the propritation you did it unsightfuled close talker of the close close talker is the thing. The other thing that I read and I just remembered it now, is that the person on Zoom is using what they call anchorman energy. In other words, you're sitting differently than you would when you're just hanging out. You're projecting differently, and there's a fatigue to that that everybody

You come to take a meeting with me and you sit back in your chair with the spread legs like that, You're out of here, buddy. I'm not taking that kind of attitude from you. The man is an expert, doctor is an expert in body language. What do you think you're saying to me when you sit back like that legs akimbo, with your attitude, with your little attitude. I'm picking it up, right, am I?

Right?

Dona, you got it, You caught it. I'm sure the man is an expert. It's the first thing you're in Sussians, your lack of regard or respect, your sort of I don't even need to be here. I got it all.

So all these years we've had a proteo perception problem. Oh yeah, and we didn't and you never told me, you know, I didn't have a word.

Right, Well, guess right, I'm here for you now.

All right, how do you like that?

I'm here totally private? Tell me what you gotta tells better?

Better know why it's better you're off, Mike, you gotta. I got a mold.

It looks it looks like.

You're off. I was making a point, was making a point.

But I should have told you about the ultimate space, which is the intimate space that's eighteen inches to a zero. And and that's a powerful taboo. Only your intimates can violate that.

You're not kidding.

Eighteen eighteen inches to zero.

Yeah, it's my new my personal space.

Maybe a little bit wider than zero.

I got to remember that, doctor, so you talked about you know, I know one of the things we started this conversation with was texting and how to make texting more clear and our intention more clear. But I actually worry about all of our sort of text of communication, Mike. Like Mike, My older son his college entrance essay was about phone phobia. Is phone phobia? Both my sons have phone phobia. They are insanely nervous about speaking to someone on the phone. They will do anything to avoid it.

I think there's absolutely no question that that's happening amongst especially amongst young people or anybody who spends a lot of time texting. And I had a very affecting communication from somebody. I was speaking to an audience about these issues, and afterwards I got a text, of course from a person in the audience who said, I'm I've got social

Yeah, Sabashian metsicalco do the whole thing about when we were growing up, the phone ranging. People ran to get it. Oh my god, it's Grandma. Now the phone rings, and I even do this phone rings and go, what.

The hell is calling?

It's like going to Saw producer Laurie. She goes into fits of rage if you call her. I put a clock on the timer because it's just she hates she hates the phone. Yeah, and there's a certain generation, the generation now, I guess below thirty. Oh my god, it's worse than death. Calling and trying what my son what I mean? He'd rather just texts me, just let me know. I said, it's a little complicated, and I want to kind of give you some context there. Yeah, what, well,

Was like, look we got a visitor. Now get the gun, get the lights, get on the floor, yeir, pull the shades. What has happened to society that way? You're saying we got to practice face to face. People don't want to be face to face. It seems like it's going the other way pretty rapidly, right.

It's a it's a negativity bias that comes about, as we mentioned earlier, from from virtual communications, because we're not getting clear read on the intent. So we got out of practice and we assume the worst, and then we start to sour on all our human relations.

I mean, this sounds pretty dire to me. I almost feel like I just worry that our ability to communicate with each other is some sort of existentially in jeopardy at this point. If we're really just reduced to, you know, sixteen word texts and an emoji. I just really worry about what is it to be a human being?

Fortunately, Fortunately, we learn to communicate in the cradle from our mothers and fathers, and hopefully as long as there's a love between parent and child and there's all that baby talk and cooing and those interactions that go on, that we'll get the basics. And yeah, we'll get a little nervous when we turn teenager and start using the phone and forget how to talk to humans, but we

Can I just assume that when my grown or teenage children answer me in a monosyllabic frunt that what they're saying is I don't want to talk to you. Is is that true? Because that's what it feels like.

Yeah, sure, that's about well you.

Know what again, See that's what I go to They don't want to talk to me. It can be that they're having a tough time with something and they don't know how to express. I mean, there's all kinds of things. I was really strengt I tend to go, oh, few, if you're not going to talk to me, I'm your father. Damn.

My wife would always tell me, leave them alone, don't talk to them right now. And Laurie, you're better at this from a mom perspective. Don't talk to them right now, don't confront stuff. They'll talk when they're ready to talk. And the car was magic because you're not looking at it. When you're driving your kids somewhere. Usually stuff comes up in the car, and I think it's because you're not making eye contact and I'm making and there's something safe

Yeah, it does.

It's a body language thing. I recommend people to do this as speakers. If they get a lot of aggressive questioning from somebody, for example, the thing to do is to move toward them, which is counterintuitive and you don't feel like doing it. You want to get away, but you move toward them, and then you align themselves so you're facing in the same direction. So what happens when two human beings are facing in the same direction is they feel like already they're prime to agree on things.

Open our problems. I just anecdotally, Peter and I have been sitting next to each other for forty episodes. I've never had a big miss staying one. I never once.

Well, you know what you just told me, doctor, my son and I are fighting. All we have to do is drive to Cleveland and we're gonna figure we can. We can figure this out.

Doctor.

Thank you so much for coming on this. Absolutely. I wonder though, if everybody listening, and you're an expert at this under thirty is going, yeah, these more on stunt because they grew up with it. They grew up with it. They get it at second nature. So us even discussing it is, why are they talking thinking about it. I'm not compromised as far as I.

Get it, but I actually have one question before you go, this is probably impossible, but is there Let's just keep it to our world of texting. And I know you said emojis are a great idea. Is there a simple thing that we could adopt that would make what we really intend more clear? Is it more language? Less? Language? Is just the emoji? Is there was sort of a simple rule for yeah, there is.

What we're looking for is emotion. I want to know what your intent toward me is. Is it positive? Is it negative? At the simplest level, is it said in a loving tone? I want to know what the tone of voices. We started with the example of good job. You can say that with a warm, friendly good job, or you can say it with an eye roll and mean it sarcastically. So if you're not using emojis, then put into the text some positive, loving word that conveys what your intent. I'm assuming it is that.

Kids that even misinterpret I give the thumb up emoji and they go, oh, that's like yeah, so.

What are I do? Jason and miss You No, really, I mean our whole show is based on the premise that you bsked with your first answer you gave me, so we go right to know? Really? Yeah, so is that I guess to know?

Really?

Part of this is the subtext of explaining what I just meant and almost joking with Laurie when I said, hey, looking forward to seeing you said with empathy and understanding, caring, and then you figure it that's that you're being. Now you're being starcastic. Well, thank you.

The whole world has become marriage therapy. I get it. Okay, doctor, thank you for coming on. Thank you so much. So Ja.

I know I didn't say anything while we were on with the doctor. But body language, I mean a big part of this is body language. And I know, I think I know how you feel about Why don't you tell everybody what's your sense of body language?

Not a thing? It's not a thing. And what makes me crazy? I mean, I'm sure there's a little bit to it, but in general what always made me crazy. You'd see like a presidential debate and then you'd go to the CNN panel and two people with the body language experts, and when he said this, he was insecure, and when she said that she was attracted to him? Or would you go what what?

I was on radio for how many years? And I was always pitch after every debate body iriage expert and I never had one on I'll tell you why. I'll tell you what. He was hunched over and looked severe. He ate chili for lunch, and it's kicking back. He just realized his taxes, his account going right before.

You don't know what's going on. And the other thing is and I and again, I do believe I honestly when I say it's not a thing, I'm kind of joking. I understand there is real research behind this information. But if I sit next to a dour teenager and I sit side by side with him in a in a restaurant booth, I know I'm now more uncomfortable because I got this dour energy sitting right off my and I've never had a substantive conversation except in a car. Par

Look at this poket where we face. Well, it's the most substance thing you do.

Let we're sharing it. I get paid for it. Actually I haven't gotten paid wonder headset for this yet. What is the money to your body language?

Right now?

Oh?

Your body language only change. I'll tell you the other thing, the emoji thing. He's He's not wrong, but again, even by his own admission. There's so many of them. We don't know what they mean.

Now, the laughing guy with the tears what anybody in the other room, anybody in that room, Come on, everybody in there is like thirty.

What could it be? Is it a gang sign?

What could it be?

Is it like the tear drop sign in a prison? Looking it up right now? When we go to him like are we doing are we doing hieroglyphics? Now? Are we going back to that? We're just going to communicate with each other, like off the wall. The only save things.

Motor Laurie does to me that I hate more than L O L Hi. How I decided to go in the hospital. I'm gonna give you the kidney, they say the recovery because if I have some other stuff wrong with me, maybe a tough recovery of three or four weeks, but it's not gonna deter me. I'm gonna I decide, I'm gonna donate my kidney to you.

And you get liked.

You get liked like the guy you didn't even have enough of a immertional have the end of you're a freaking kidney like look liked. You can't your thumbs, you can't type something back?

My god, that makes me crazy. How I'm in a cave? Come got me thumb?

You don't understand that, and the abbreviations don't help, all right, so here we go.

I got some abbreviations if you want to be okay, sure, and I don't know. Can I curse? Will bleep it?

Yes? Okay? Well G O A T that greatest of all? Okay, right? I d G A F you know what? I d G A F S. I don't jump close close big given't okay?

Yeah, yep? P O S What is if your team sends your p O S?

What is p O S e O S? Point of service?

Parent over shoulder, parent over shoulder? What's QQ mean? Let me send you QQ q Q quick quick, quick quick crime. It's often you sarcastically like in other words, yeah you, but sarcastically crying. In other words, you hurt my feelings?

Not you know crime? How does QQ convey that? I'm just telling you I didn't write these. Oh, you're into a whole different way. T D p M T d d M touching down.

There talk dirty to me S S d D.

That's a that's a sexually transmitted this same.

Stuff, different day. This and this is my favorite because if you took the time to send this t L D R t l A too long, didn't read your mother, that's like I never saw it, not anyway, a little bit of an education.

Everybody gets it wrong. That's what I and I everybody tell you. You can't say anything right. You can't.

Let's go to go going, So.

Jason, I have a correction.

This is the second time I've had.

This.

The saber tooth cat and Homo sapiens were on the Earth at the same time.

They weren't at the LaBrea tarpets at the same time. That's all I know. You know what I can tell you because there's the Labria tarpets. They go out of the way to say Homo sapiens. This is a man by the way.

You can't correct because he'll go but they weren't the same place at the same time. He always comes up with the next But how did they know what?

There couldn't have been a guy in Bayonne, New Jersey while they were saying no saber toothed time. I do, okay, I, but believe you, I have nothing else. This is relatively news.

Signs that was discovered not do are along, So perhaps they've changed their talking.

That's what did not exist. Almost apparently they found three guys next to us.

They may have they may have interacted. It's probably in Europe, but they may have interacted. But that that's a little bit all right, I stand correct now. Now, if you are being confused by a lot of the things that Peter was throwing at, you know, let's say, what.

Is r O F l uh oh, that's one that comes around a lot right on you frigging are you rolling on the lower laughing?

Yeah, So if that is too much for you to type, it has an emoji to replace it.

So if those are too tough, they're emoji. So it's an emoji.

It's the happy face with smile that is twisted a little bit to the side, with tears coming out, and there's a lot of squinting.

That's what doesn't that's what the teenager couldn't tell his father that that's what that means.

No, that's the instead of rolling on the floor laughter, you will replace that with the emoji with it.

With the doctor said that that the smiling with the spirting eyes. As teenager said, you don't even know what that means anymore? Dad, And it was like, you know, it's a digger we should never use. Well, they have a lot of them.

Now there's there's face with tears of joy, which is very similar to rolling on the floor lamp or you have loudly crying face, which is you know whatever. There are tears of joy, there are tears of sadness.

So you know what I think, it's let's let's let's do final you know my.

Find yourself, you come about, you got it, you could do it, You could do it.

You know something.

Here's my final thought right now. You know what my final thought is. They get older, Laurie's gonna love this. I'm not calling any I'm not reaching out to anybody. I'm not talking to anybody. I'm just sitting in my bedroom in my underpants, watching shows all day long. Because now they scream. I'm just gonna scream till I die.

I hear. Not reaching out. I'm gonna sit right beside you and will agree. Thank What do you think of that? Well, in the same underwear, looking in the same direction, n r.

O, not reaching out, not reaching out or naked reaching out?

So good night.

Yeah, that's that's it. I'm done, Laura. I'm never calling you again. Right to us, let us thought about an emoji two thumbs up. You know what that means up here? I know from Lauri, even not as misread as exactly what it means.

And I thank you for listening to another damn it, Thank you, Laurie.

An episode of Really No Really? What did you mean by that? What did you mean by.

Now?

Really? Now?

Really?

As another episode of Really.

Really comes to a closure, possibly wondering, has a miscommunication ever resulted in tragedy on an enormous scale? Well you can probably guess. But before I give you the details, let's thank our guest, doctor Nick Morgan. You can follow doctor Morgan online at public words dot com. His podcast is called Just One Question, and you can follow him on Instagram, X and Facebook where he is doctor Nick Morgan.

Well?

At the end of World War Two, the Allied leaders of America, Britain, Russia, and China called for Japan to surrender unconditionally to avoid not only a land invasion but the potential deployment of America's newly developed nuclear bombs. In response, the Japanese Prime Minister uttered the single word mo kasatsu. Unfortunately, mokusatsu has several meanings depending on context. The Prime Minister