Mike Campbell: The Man Behind Tom Petty

Now really.

Really now really hello, and welcome to really know Really, with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who humbly remind you not to be petty and please subscribe. Speaking of Petty, rock and Roll Hall of Famer Tom Petty left this world in twenty seventeen, but his music continues to live on thanks to hits like Refugee, Here Comes My Girl, and Running Down a Dream. But recently Jason and Peter were stunned to learn that Petty didn't write those songs alone.

Really No Really.

Mike Campbell was an original member of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and co wrote many of.

The band's legendary hits.

In fact, he was considered by Petty to be the Heartbreakers co captain, and while much of Mike's career was alongside Petty, he notably gave Don Henley.

The music for his nineteen eighty four hit The.

Boys of Summer, and he worked closely with Stevie Nicks, Aretha Franklin, and too many others to name.

Campbell has definitely had an.

Impressive career himself, now fronting the band The Dirty Knobs and playing and writing music with the legendary rockers like Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, George Harrison and Moore and all that got the guys wondering what's it like being the unrecognized talent regularly standing just behind and co writing with iconic names.

That question and more is the subject of.

His newly released book, Heartbreaker, a Memoir and now here are two more Heartbreakers And yes they did make me say back.

Jason and Peter, Hello, everybody, welcome to really know really that always gets a bell because it makes Peter happy.

My partner, Peter Tilden. I'm Jason. I say why I hate the bell? Please? If I publicly stated why I hate the bell.

You have publicly stated that you hate the bell, tell you what I don't know is it?

Is it your musophonia or whatever? The no, no, no no no, although you've proven then I do have music. I know. Yes, I'll tell you why. In my thirty years in radio, Yeah, okay, the stick of old jocks is if you listen to the old guy when I got into it's all, it's this, it's hey because they didn't have sound effects, they didn't have AI. This was it. So it drives me crazy.

Well, can I say something in response to how much you hate the bell and your thirty years of experience in radio, I would like to point out I.

Didn't bring the bell in.

Somebody a partner in this broadcast with thirty years of experience in radio, suddenly there was a bell.

Because I thought it occasionally occasionally, like every fifteenth episode maybe would be funny. Didn't realize it was going to be really every time you said, really, know, really, what did them?

If you're not watching on YouTube, I have yet to touch the bell in this episode.

Let's talk about the episode, all right, that's what.

We have a guest in the studio, and I think not not our primary guest, but we have a guest in the studio and share number three. This very fine young man over there in the hat that says shamanics.

Shamanics. Yes, we're going to find out more about it.

Is a very a lovely man that I've known since he was a young lad little man who looks just like you. He did a video for his band I did for Boreo. You bet, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show. Mister Robert tilden.

Miter. He knew where the camera right.

I got prepped. Also all right, it wasn't. It wasn't in my nature.

I was proud to be knock my feet up from underneath me. I'm sorry.

And Robert.

Robert is here today for a number of reasons.

One is, uh, just bring your kid to work day, bring your kick in the workday. But also your your primary career at this moment is music writing, playing all kinds. So we have a big, a big music since brand are you talking about our other Roberts? I know about Boyle, but you also do music outside of Boyle, don't you?

Yeah? Did?

I like to score things and produce things and read music books and consume and everything.

So yeah, and you now you play not not sent synthically on a keyboard, but you play keyboard.

Yes, I play everything. I like.

It's like a jack of all trades in the sense where you can kind of do everything, but not to the greatest ability.

You know, you.

Play real guitar, though, real guitar that's your primary.

Yes, yes, but you play bass, play bass? Keyboard?

Is that the one you'd love to play?

I'm struggling.

I mean the lessons lessons, but also it's like someone was talking.

The other day about learning.

I was saying I wanted to learn animation or something that seems very hard and takes a lot of time. And they were just saying, you know, use YouTube university, which I thought was a weird term, but you can.

Just I feel like using I'm actually taking a free base course on I. I'm freebasing and uh and it's very helpful.

It is very helpful. I mean, how do you do it when you're free bassed? What do you use? I'm not giving you tips, wants. This will be the one pr thing that will break through all of really, no really, Jason Alexander Minte the free base. That's right, good time, I knock out a couple of teeth. Make it look real. So today's guest, Yeah, is a unique individual. Mike Campbell. Mike Campbell met Tom Petty in gains the Florida when

I am.

I'm recording right now, our fourth album. We just started yesterday. So I'm at home in La.

Yeah, very cool. Well, thanks thanks for coming to La in La. And he still couldn't come down here to the He's busy recording.

But I'm just saying that sounds like a character I'm familiar with.

I know I had I could have done it from my house. I had to come all the way down here.

People say to me, People say, no, no, Mike, I'm not blaming you.

I'm blaming our our staff. Of course, who couldn't be.

If you had Katie, she could have taken care of you.

Boy, Truer words have never been spoken. We're coming next now, you're up for it. You're coming next time. And by the way, people say to me, is Jason anything like the character? I go, no, no, not at all, never complains, never irritated, not at all. So I actually want to ask the first question, Mike.

So our show really, no, really, We're going to talk about a lot of things today, but we try and find something that makes Peter and I go, what is

Now you were certainly not unrecognizing your career.

But what was so fascinating to me when Peter said we were having you on was to realize how great a writing and playing contribution you had made, certainly to the success of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, And yet I think the average person may not be aware of how large that contribution is.

And I just want to know how you.

Because I've asked some other people that are in similar circumstances, how that's with you?

How that? How that? How do you carry that? And does it bother you? Is it fine?

Do you know going in that you know the spotlight is probably going to be on the other guy. I mean, what what's your journey through being that other guy? And yet such a substantial part of these creations?

Well, thank you. Yeah.

I can't explain that. Tom always call me the co captain. And from the time I met Tom, I mean, I've always been a basically shy, quiet person. He's got a great, dynamic personality and it was a perfect fit.

You know.

I didn't challenge his leadership or his charisma, and I was very comfortable because I trusted him and I had this great partner who could do all that for me.

I just.

You know, so it just our personality has just worked that way, you know.

But meanwhile, the really really for me, you have a song like break Now the guitar line is the song without that guitar line, It's a bunch of chords, your guitar.

I agree, and we're out, and we're out, and I have no bitterness in that's about.

No, It's funny as a guitar because I play a little guitar. My son who's doing a stay because he wanted to talk to you as a group called and he the guitar line writing songs is really really interesting. So I love playing along with Tom Petty songs and you go, wow, these are some basic chords and some really interesting chord changes. But then you do your thing and it changes the whole dynamic of the song every

It's never hard for me. I think that's one reason Tom likes me is he could bring a song in. It was just the basic chords, and we all have We both had the same influences the sixties and the Beach Boys, Beatles, Stones, all that, so I instinctively just organically would join in. And it was always fun to discover, well, what can I add to this without getting in the way. And I always had a way of just finding the right thing that he liked and that we agreed on.

Just lucky.

Really, you know, I do play music, and I do know music, but I'm not a musician.

So if someone.

Writes it down and I'm lucky and I'm on the right instrument, I can play it. But when you're creating solo lines like that, are you immediately able to go I hear it in my head and it comes out in my hands. Is that a direct communication or is there a thought process behind it? A technical process of getting it to be the thing you hear in your head.

There's no thought process, really. My gift for my blessing, which I'm very grateful for, is a subliminal stream of consciousness. All my input to the music. You know, ninety five percent of it happens in the moment. Breakdown, you know, breakdown just an example. I don't take these things out because I like to they come out of the air and if you just they passed through you and breakdown.

For instance, we cut the song.

Down very simple, and so we cut it the basic track. It was maybe six seven minutes long, and I said, okay, well, let me play some guitar along with the track they recorded me and I just you know, shut my mind off and let it happen.

And just.

I immediately kind of went to a blues form because the mood it's in, and so I knew it along pretty bad stuff. Really just letting it happen. At the end of the six minutes, I kind of got bored with trying to think of stuff, so I just instinctively went down. It was there in the air. I didn't think anything about it. So I recorded that and said, well, we'll look at it tomorrow. I went home and then Tom called me back and said, you got to come

What's the O? And I'll find those on the guitar.

If I get stuck and nothing's coming, I'll just go to the melody because I know that's going to work, and then I'll turn the guitar around on it and turn into something. It's kind of magical, really, I mean, I'm still fascinated by it.

It is magical, and it's magical for people like me who you know, I cannot I can hear music in my head. I have to struggle to get it out through my fingers, you know. I just there's no instrument that is such a part of me that the translation is spontaneous.

Yeah, and I will find that magical for people that haven't. Yeah, I hear you.

Well, the reason I'm able to do that is because I put in the hours of work of learning my scales and my craft and my feel so I had those tools already, so I don't have to think about that. I can just let my fingers do what they want to do, and my mind kind of follows them.

But you know, the.

Magic metaphor is silly, but it's true. It's like you pull a rabbit out of the hat. But that was there before, here's here where to come from.

Yeah.

The music a lot of times, just for me, is like that. And the songs too, they just come out of the air.

Well, it's you know, it's the same really in the acting world. I find you know, you do all your prep and you do your rehearsal, but what you're hoping for is in that performance something takes over that nobody knew was going to happen, and it's exactly right, and it's in the flow and everybody feels it and you're not in control of it. You're sort of releasing to it. But I've only, like I say, I've only experienced it.

You know.

That's where I put my ten thousand hours as opposed to where you put yours.

Solf. Yeah, it is beautiful.

That's exactly what you hit the nail on the head right there, Jason's exactly that. You have your tools, you learn your craft, and you put in a moment and rather than script it, you go with it. You know, maybe you change the phrase a little bit, and acting you would change the word a little bit because it didn't feel right in the moment, you come up with something better.

It just happens. Yeah, and it's like, wow, that was fun. You know.

I was going to say that in learning about your past. I mean, you live like a lot of us living when you were teenagers in the hell holes and then you moved out to the woods, the woods and we're sharing a place. But the one thing that always stood out, and same with my son, if you love the music, you're holding your guitar, you're playing all the time. You played constantly, right, that was what you did when other

Oh, twenty twenty one something like that in Gainesville.

By the way, at Gainesville at that time. It's funny because the southern thing I would have thought was all Allman Brothers. But I did country music for a lot of years. Jason actually did some with me, did the

Well, the college, you know, the Gainesville is basically the University of Florida college community, So it was that young, idealistic energy around the campus.

There were lesser free concerts.

But the thing about the blues is the South is deeply blues and country ingrained, and we grew up around all that, you know. But we also were Tom and I were really enamored with the whole sixties thing, you know, the Beach Boys, the dream of the Golden Sun and the beautiful girls, and then of course England with the Beatles, Stones Kings, all those great bands.

That's what turned us on. So when in the South, you know, there's a lot of.

Bands, and as soon as the bands saw the Almond Brothers or Leonard Skinner be successful, that you wanted to do that, you know, but we didn't.

It didn't really fit with us.

We wanted to play Bergie you know, Coors harmonies, and that's so we were kind of stood out in a way because everybody else is playing all my brother's copies and we were doing our own thing. And it's just because that's what we were, you know.

Also, I'm curious about Tom. Yeah, the words intimidating, and I think your quote was you can't sell Tom. You couldn't talk Tom into anything. So you got a guy that I got it. I got it, I got it.

I feel I feel your pain, Mike. I'm just I'm not I feel your pain.

Robert, do you have something you wanted?

Oh?

I was just interested because you said you're inspired by the Birds and the Beatles and the Stones, and I was listening to your guitar parts the other day and there's like a tonal quality that I feel like kind of bridge the gap between them and the future. It sounds like you're doing what they're doing, but in a

Not intentional, it just the way it is.

You know, you could take a guitar and amplifier and get a sound on it and hand it to Eric Clappton, it's going to sound like him. Hand it to B. B. King, it's going to sound like him. Hand it to George Harrison, or hand it to me, it's going to sound like me. It's in the hands And a lot of the tone is the way you hit the strings and the way you by brought up the strings. Is your own personality and the tone. You know, a lot of it comes from the way you attack it with your own hands,

I tried to follow that a lot.

I studied that quite a bit and tried to get inside his tone and his feel and his bending and stuff. So I learned a lot off that record as well. So you know, you it's like Jason was saying, you put your ten thousand hours or how the saying goes, and you do your homework, you build your skills and your your basic framework, and then you apply that in the creative situation and hopefully it'll give you some results.

Did I see a video that you have more guitars than I've ever seen anybody have, but they're on like a dry cleaning rack that you can press up press a button. Because I've mentioned that. The people and like a friend of yours and approuveser Rye and I don't know that. I don't. People don't. They go, OU haven't seen it, and so I thought, maybe I'm doubting it. But it's up in the ceiling, and the guitars are how do you press up?

Yeah, give some guitars.

Did a little piece on that, and you can find it on YouTube probably somewhere. But it's a practical thing over you know, my old life. I've collected guitars because I love them, but I played them all, you know, and if when you get more than a handful, they end up in a case or else in a warehouse with a stack of cases, and you're in the studio and you go, well, where's that, bless Paul. You know it's in one of those cases. You know, No, that's not it. I always at the warehouse. Oh, there it is.

Walk in and go. There's a less Paul.

There's a Rickenbacker, and I've got it on a hydra hydraulic lift so it comes down where I can reach them, and I lift it back up and I've got the rehearsal band set up underneath.

So it's quite a nice vibe.

How many guitars is that? And do you have to do what we all have to do, which is with the wife. When did you get that that I've had that I've had that? You've never seen that guitar before?

Yeah, my wife, God bless her. She's talked me into buying a lot of things that I was going to pass on. She's a blessing. But well, you know, the oldest joke is how many guitars does a guitar player really need?

One more?

One more?

Right?

But I love guitars and they are pieces of art, and I don't buy I haven't bought one in several years because it kind of got all the ones I ever wanted, But most of them are vintage and old.

I like the old ones. They have a better sound.

And I walk in that room and I see all the guitars up there, and I don't have time to get to all of you today, you know, But.

What a great visual. It's such a great, great thing to say. But I have a practical question about that, Mike.

Knowing nothing about guitars, I always thought that if you if you didn't case the guitar, that it was prone to warping or some sort of damage or straight Is none of that true.

It's perfectly fine, open like that.

You don't want to leave it out in the sun.

But if you get a basically you know, comfortable room, some people put humidifiers in there.

I don't.

I'm not that precious about it. You know, they're tough. The old ones are made really well. Unless you really put them out in the weather. They just sit there and they're the same as they were two years ago.

But don't you worry like I was just displaced because of the fires. You know, it was impacted. Oh yeah, what do you what's your plan? If you hear like I don't know what neighborhood you're in, but you hear we're going to evacuate when it's coming over the hill. Are there three hundred people that are each going to grab a guitar? Or how do you get them out of there.

No, well, that's that's a good question.

What do you what's your plan if you hear like I don't know what neighborhood you're in, but you hear we're going to evacuate when it's coming over the hill, Are there under people that are each going to grab a guitar? Or how do you get them out of there?

No?

Well, that's that's a good question. And I did have a plan. I could see the smoke from my roof. I never got I got to be ready warning. I didn't get the evacuation, but I called up the studio trucking company, who I have a relationship with. They sent a truck over with a couple of guys. I was actually in Hawaii when it all went down, maintain. They came over to the house and grabbed them all up and put them in a safe city. And then when things are safe, they brought them back and put them

So moving forward with Tom Petty. So the Dylan movie is out. My son loved it. Jason kind of was not sure about it. We appreciated the movie.

I wasn't I mean, it's probably sacrilege. I grew up with much older siblings, and my sister, instead of having the proper music collection of the sixties and epies, the at the soundtrack album of every musical and Broadway show novel.

Yeah.

So, so I didn't grow up affected by Dylan, you know, as much as someone of.

My head should. So I was fascina.

I know, I know, believe me, my wife is threatened to leave me on many occasions because of this. But yeah, I didn't. I didn't think the movie tracked for me.

You know.

It comes down to that artistic integrity decision at the end about what he's going to play at Monterey and and you know, uh, is he going to serve the people that sort of brought him there or is he going to be true to his muse? And I I couldn't track through the film what that internal struggle was all about. So as a nice boy was brought up by a nice mother, I would have said, all right, what the hell, I'll play electric tomorrow. Let me do the festival the guy brought me to today, and I'll

But you you worked with it's amazing now looking at you and going, this guy was around Dylan, wrote with Dylan, toured with Dylan, played with Dylan, and my producer goes, you got to ask him, he's always called enigmatic. What the hell does that mean? What is Bob Dylan really? What's he like hanging out with He's.

Like a riddle in size inside a puzzle right outside of a wrapt around in enigma. The guy's a genius, you know, he's the every true word of the genius. That he's got that childlike quality. But uh, responding to your Jason, to your thing about the film and going electric, h my impression of Bob is he's going to do whatever he wants to do. He's not going to worry about if somebody thinks it's this or that. He was probably just in the mood. I just got my electric guitar.

That's the beauty of his personality.

But when you're hanging with him, is he all forward?

Movie?

It's funny. It's funny. A friend who played with Ringo, you know, in the All Star band, and he said, the first couple of years Ringo, the news was do not ask Ringo about the Beatle. He just doesn't want to talk about the Beatles. And then as he got older, I guess that he got older, he started volunteering and then they said you couldn't stop him telling stories about the Beatles. Right? What is Doling like to eat dinner with? Does he tell Dylan stories? Can you ask him questions?

He's you know, I have had some private just me and him at at the table, and it's like he told me, he said, you know, I don't like I can't communicate or relate to many people, but I like musicians because they understand me, you know. And we talked about music. We talked about Muddy Waters and blues and at one point he goes, you know the world doesn't need any more songs. There's thousands of songs. They've already been written. I'm not going to I'm just going to

You know.

He doesn't sufferate fools. If you say something stupid, he's going to notice it, you know. But he's really sweet. You know, he's a great guy, and he's really you know, he's it's hard to put in words, but I have nothing but reverence for mister Dylan.

I wonder if you have any insight into this, Mike. It's a fascinating moment. It's in the documentary that was made when they were recording We Are the World, and Dylan is one of the last guys that's gonna solo.

That night, and yeah, yeah, he gets seen that.

Yeah, he kind of gets his head and in his way and Stevie wonder eventually, what it looks like is if Stevie wonder sort of does a Dylan impression to show Dylan how to sing the.

Dylan lines, and then he was able to do it.

But does that do you understand potentially what was going on in his head that made him so tighten up like that.

I have a hunch that he is.

Has a knee jerk reaction to all the attention that's piled on him and the expectations, you know, and he walks in the room and oh, what's he going to do? He's a genius, It's going to be amazing, and he feels all that. He's just like, you know, he's kind of in a way, he's kind of shy and like, leave me alone. You know, I don't want all that attention. I'm not I'm not God. I'm not going to show you the truth. You find that for yourself. I think that's what it is. It's just like that on my face,

Yep, but you know I.

Saw that Stevie Wonderner showing him how he should sing it. It was hilarious.

Maybe I think he really appreciated it because he took the heat off him.

You bet.

He seemed to really just blossom right after that. Oh I can I can do that?

Okay? You know Yeah.

My impression was, yeah, you know, if it were me, I I sort of projected into Bob Dylan in that moment, and I thought, if I were in that room, you know, I can, I can sing a little, but I'm not going to open my mouth in that room.

I think, you know, you surround.

Us, say, if he walked into a movie to do a cameo and and you were nervous, maybe there was some starlets there that you were like, oh my god, it's Steven Spielberg or whatever, and they said okay, uh be George, and he'd be like and somebody was sipping and go, oh he do it like this?

Oh yeah right. I know that it was kind of like that, you know happens.

I was.

I was wondering from just working with different artists like Dylan and Patty, did you feel like you had to channel different parts of your musical self to write and play with them, or was it you feel like you kind of had one unanimous kind of writing brain with with these people, like with with Dylan, did you have to have different expectations of a kind of guitarist and writing a partner or was it just all kind of one collaborative thing.

Well, whoever you're working with, you know, Roy Orbison or Delish Fan.

Whoever, you bring your skills to the table.

And you you try to give them what they want, what you think they might want to hear from you. You know, it's interesting because sometimes people hire you to do something and they want you to do what you do, and you come in want to do what they want you to do. You know, like try to maybe they want something like this, but it's not. You're always channeling. You're always channeling your influences that you draw on them when you can and hopefully they're there for you them.

Who you know? I read that you guys open. I always loved seeing concert bills that are weird, even growing up in Philadelphia where I was. You'd go to the Electric Factory and you'd see like a bad example of like Abba and Frank Zappa. Some promoter would put things together just because they got them the dates for free and they try and build it. I know, you guys opened for Kiss. What was the weirdest, weirdest billy you were ever on? We thought the weirdest.

Bill that was there. That's in the book is a great story about that. It's hilarious, but the weirdest bill. At that stage of our career, they were trying to hook us up with anybody, open for this, open for that, jump on this, And one day after it was in the Midwest somewhere, they had us opening for the La Express, which was a jazz band. You know, it's like a lot of you know, saxophones that do out up they do, but you know, it had nothing to do with us

And what's this the monkeys?

Oh?

Nice that? Yeah, but we did. We showed them. But that was the weirdest mismatch I've ever Wow.

Well, the other thing is the leap from you're playing small clubs, the coffee houses, and then there were the clubs that were like three hundred, three hundred, ten one thousand, your first time you're playing a stadium. What's in your head when you're looking out at that and you're trying to connect with that crowd. I mean in theater, Jason that always told me that it's black. You can't really see them again, the first couple I'm experiencing them sonically,

Focus on the music, you know.

And it's interesting that the big, huge crowds, like we've played at the US Festival there's two hundred thousand people, or Hyde Park, you know, sixty thousand people. And when you have a situation like that, you can't you feel it and you see.

Them all, but you don't see their individual faces.

You just see this collage of people, you know, and so it just becomes kind of a backdrop and you try to just play like you were in a fifty seat club. And interesting thing is is when you're in a small room and you can actually see their faces, you're really in connected with them.

You actually play to them, and the.

Bigger crowds you're playing to the collage and you're just trying to make it as real as you can. But there's no direct person on person communication. But the sound is pretty overwhelming. It's like somebody opens an oven in front of you.

It's like.

It's quite an experience. But there is a difference. But it was never intimidating playing the bigger places because it's so big. You know, it's out there and they're hearing a whole different mix than you're hearing up here, so you're hoping that they're getting a good show, but you just try not to let it affect you just do your thing.

Well, is it as fulfilling or do you like playing? All these bands that are play these huge venues always end up, whether it's The Stones, whoever, doing McCartney still play small gigs every once in a while. Yeah, Is it because it's more fulfilling seeing the people's faces rather than that collage?

Probably? But both are great. You know, it's like saying, what's better recording in the studio or playing live? Well, they're both great and they're different, But yeah, I mean a smaller gig. I think I've read Keith Richards said the best room for rock and roll is about two hundred people. And I know what he means, because the thing about the smaller rooms is everybody's hearing the same sound. The walls are right here, we're all in the same sonics,

There's a disconnect. But that all comes down to the songs.

You know.

You want to just make sure the songs connect with whether it's one or you know, eight hundred people, whatever you know.

Mike, I'm going to ask you the musician version of a question I get as an actor all the time because I do a lot of live by performing.

So it's twofold one.

Is you're up there, you're having a great night, everything's going great, and you suddenly realize either you're bladder, your sphincter is in desperate need of attention and you've got another hour on the set, or or you're in the middle of the thing and you go, I have no idea what freaking chord or lyric, Just it goes out of your head. You know, even though you've played it a thousand times. Have you had that happen? And what you're react either of those things happen and what you're reacting?

Okay, let me I'll answer the first question first.

Yep.

If you're grinning, you grin and bear it.

Uh huh.

If you're smart, you'll prepare yourself before you get on the stage. And if you get up there and it's think, oh no, nothing I can do? You know it was waiting at the end, you run to the restroom. You know, that's that nobody ever thinks question.

By the way, nobody thinks that. You know, you might you might have another bit of attention being taken somewhere.

But yeah, well that doesn't happen too often, you know. If you're but if you're like drinking six beers and then go on stage, you're going to have trouble about forty five minutes into the ship.

But I don't do that. And the other question.

Was going up on the lyric or getting lost in the song.

That's a good question.

I'll give you an example of that in my new life now as the singer in front of the band, Like when I was in the Heartbreakers, I had the easiest job. And I never had appreciation for all the things, all the moving parts that Tom was dealing with at that microphone.

I'm just back there. Oh yeah.

And I never could forget them. You know, if I if I make brain forgot, my fingers would have memory.

They just do it.

But I would always just thought, you know. But now that I have in to front the band, remember the words, sing on pitch, connect with the audience, all these things, there's a lot of tasks. Yeah, and I found thank god, now I can get a teleprompter if I get stuck. But I found that not the guitar chords, but the lyrics. Sometimes I'll be up there and okay the solo. I'm getting lost in the solo and I got to sing the verse when it comes up, and I.

Go, uh huh, oh, I know, what's that word?

What's the first word? You know?

Or sometimes if it doesn't, sometimes it'll come to me right, they'll split second before I'm supposed to say.

If it doesn't, I just make something up.

You and I talked in the same language, my friend, So what did you working with? Wedn't even talked about George Harrison and the Wilbery's, but when you learn if you're taken away. We talked about Dylan. You work with Harrison, you worked with some of the biggest guys, you worked with Ringo, you worked with Warrens. I always said, what did you take away? Did you learn something from Dylan that you took with you? Did you learn from Harrison?

Yeah?

If you pay attention, you learn from everybody you work with. You pull something, you observe them, and you go, oh, I could do I could do something more like that. It'd be good for me, or you know, they all inspire you and I'm always learning. I always pay close attention the people like that. You watch them, how they work, how they their processed, their creative processes and their work ethic and all that.

But there's some watching from Dylan. Is there something specific?

Well yeah, there were so many things. But one thing I like, uh that I learned I think from Dylan, which I think Tom also learned, is to be.

Fearless and be brave.

Like before the Heartbreakers worked with Dylan, we were kind of old showbiz. We get our set list, it had we work on it, have an arc to it, and that's it. We're gonna go out, We're gonna we're gonna please the people, We're gonna work them up, we're going to ingratiate with them.

And then Bob comes along.

It's like, I'm just going to do what I like and if they like it, fine, it's not they can go get some popcorn, you know. And it's like there's some freedom in that, like, oh, okay, well we're going to try this song. We didn't rehearse it, but be brave and courageous. We can make this work because we're good, you know. And there's something to that that I think I did learn the spontaneu he definitely in The Dirty Knobs.

You know. That's very cool.

I want to ask you a question, Mike, ause we as we start to tie up for Rob here and Rob you can tag onto my question as much again. So Robert is, you know, the primary writer and the front man for this this band that's begun to do quite well.

Boyo, young guy in his twenties.

But I'm imagining the music business when you guys began versus what's happening now and what he's facing is a very different creature. How do you navigate it? And do you have any advice for guys like Rob who are who are you know, really banging away and banging away at it somewhat successfully, but it's still an upward slog.

Yeah what what's? What have you learned or how do you?

Do you have any advice for the young guys who are trying to navigate this stuff?

Yeah, I hear, I hear you. And it is so different now than when I started out. It was a different game plan to try to keep it together and be successful, completely different game plan. I don't even really understand the social media music scene. You know, we still sell vinyl. We do okay with the vinyl and stuff and some CDs I guess, but mostly we do vinyl and streaming whatever that you know, I don't even know.

If you if you love what you're doing, you've already won the game.

True that that's beautiful, man.

I mean also the thing because I also, I don't know, you've given me a lot of I think musical inspirations, So hearing that is just wonderful.

Thank you.

You know, in the industry, I mean, the industry is always more things Like I talked to my managinery. He says, well, last week we did this, This week, we have to do this to get your record played. So it's just you know, don't get hung up on that because it's going to always morph.

I keep dreaming. I have this dream that there's.

Going to be a sunflare and it's going to zap all digital music and no social media, no cell phones, and we're going to have to go back to playing music and making records.

How do we how do we trip in? Let's do the globe the solar flare telethon, have people singing in front, donate money to create a god. Before we go, I got to mention one thing. You and your wife are so involved in dog rescue, and I thought that was important to go out on that too.

So well, thank it's Paul the TAZZI found and thank you for mentioning that. Uh my wife and I. If you read the book, there's a great story of how we met. We were brought together by a dog, and we just got a new puppy.

Recently.

I read something once I said, look, dogs are a blessing and a get. They come into your life and they have a job to do. Their job is to make you happy for the twelve years or whatever. And when their job is done, they say goodbye and they send another dog into your life somehow mystically to come in and finish the job that they didn't finish. So I like to look at it like that because it

And I know someday maybe he will outliard me.

I don't know, but I don't care. I want to enjoy them while I'm here, you know. And dogs are great. I can't endorse them more. They make your life better.

Check out it's foundating the book and it's in there too, about the meeting of the meeting of the dog and you and your wife. It's a heartbreaker memoir. The dirty knobs are out not right the second because you're sitting at home, but you're out on tour, So go see them because why not? Why why wouldn't wouldn't you? And continue success man and doing what you're doing.

D Campbell, you're You're a good dude.

You are. Thank you.

I don't know what you learned, Robbie, you learned stuff.

Oh yeah, I thought it was just it was just kind of like a masterclass. And hearing a hearing a collaborator, like a Keith Richards type of guy's really interesting.

It's interesting being in that position. And it's so funny giving him back the line that you couldn't talk Tom into anything, and he goes, I could, so he had currency because he when you're that powerful a songwriter, and Tom, I guess need notes, he needs you. Even though he's a big ego and a big name and a big hit maker. I guess he still knew. Like I said, if you hit heart, if you hear some of those songs, the guitar line is the song is the melody to

When you were asking the enigmatic question of what that means, I feel like he kind of defined, like he embodies what that means. He has a very kind of interesting indirect way of answering certain things right he knows, you know, like about Dylan cannot really connect with people, but only connect with musicians. There's just certain things that he answers, ways that he answers that are indirect, but you know what they mean.

But the mystery is still there. My weirdest Dylan experience was my only Dylan experience, was when we were living up near Malibu. I went to the Malibu Movie Theater and it was tiny, and I think we went to see Blade two. Why, I don't know. We probably had nothing else to do. And we pull in and it's kind of a little empty shopping center and a pickup truck pulls in next to my car. Now there are a million space truck pulls in right next to my car and really close, and I go, look at this

Thinking about Dylan as far as relationships with people, you know, there's a little bit of a doesn't quite always read the room. But along with that is also this savant ability two for poetry, for words, for music, for.

It.

It must be fascinating to live in that. Because he's not a great singer, he knows he's not, doesn't matter, and yet you know he's fronting the thing. I find Dylan fascinating. You know, I'm not kidding that. I just wasn't music be aware. As a teenager, all the guys around me were being very affected by Dylan and all his contemporaries.

I was, you know, I know you're doing you were doing so. But I love that he's fear. I love I have a thing on the computer I pulled and I'm going to quote it horribly, but I said, what would you create today if you didn't have any fear? Because that stops. It's the great stopper. And you know what on that segway, nothing's going to stop us from talking to David Googan. What a great radio I am.

I have to say, Peter, you missed out. Blade two is one of my favorite.

Pictures. But I mean missed out. I paid for it. I went and saw it. Yeah, but you were watching Derek. You know what Blade won. I went with my friend Howard and it was I was doing Morning, the Morning Show and it was in a premiere. It was with the stars and Wesley Snith and it was in a huge theater and I fell. It's a one time name. One other person in Blade went out out the Dwarf. See what Stephen. It was wasn't Stephen Dodorf and played Yeah,

You're lucky, You're lucky, Wesley Snipes didn't take your head up.

So David Blade Blade two is much better than Blade went. But that's my personal opinion. Actually, a couple of things on the on the correction meter.

Dylan.

Now you guys mentioned Dylan playing at the Monterey Folk Festival. While Dylan did play that festival in nineteen sixty three, that was notable because that was his first West Coast appearance.

That was not when he went electric. That was at the Newport.

Folk Festival in sixty five.

That was Peter's mistake, right, I wouldn't have said any of that, that was all.

You wouldn't have said that twice.

Absolutely, And also you got to me thinking of as far as collecting of guitars, if people are interested in what many people believe to be the largest significant collection of guitars, that is the jim Ers, I hopefully I've got considered right name right, he is the billionaire owner of NFL's Indianapolis Colts, and he has a collection of over two hundred guitars, including Dylan's electric guitar when he played at the New Part.

And Cobain's guitar. He's got insane stuff. I mean, he'll pay whatever he has to pay to get paying from the ceiling. I don't think display cases. I think he don't. Did he also buy David Gilmore's black Stratocastes? He did?

I mean did, And it's actually if you're I believe it's on a.

Year long Indian app tour. Yeah, yeah, you can go.

See it now if you're in that very cool saying collection.

What I liked about hearing about the guitar rack Laundri is that it makes the little piccadillo in my guest house seem a little less strange.

You know about the couch, the pneumatic couch. So can I can I mention that so Jason has this log cabin guesthouse, which is very nice, and the couch there's a big sofa and it faces.

Well, there's a problem because the way the room is configurated, there's a large screen sort of projection on these on the north end of the room, but the fireplace is on the south end of the room. So if you're putting in furniture, where do you orient the couch. It's a problem you oriented to the fireplace, oriented to the screen.

So why did you put a big screen over the fireplace? You couldn't. It wasn't over the fireplace. I said, why couldn't you put a big screen everyone wall?

First of all, you're gonna have to look look above the mantle anyway.

Jason, the first time I'm there in the back house when I met him thirty plus years ago, was he something the couch is It rises pneumatically, you turn it, it goes back down and it now faces whichever direction you want.

Right like on a lazy Susan.

It's on a lazy Susan that is lifted pneumatically into a six feet into the air, so the couch legs can pass over all the surrounding furniture as you rotated, and then it floats gently back down to the floor.

Which not to give away secrets as much like how they do the Houdini experience at the Magic Castle. But you didn't hear that from too it.

Our friend Wayne Night when the when the table started to rise during the Hodini seance in the Pitch Black, I hear from way night. Well, there can be no natural explanation for this phenomena.

It must be Houdini. And then the guy who was doing the seance when it's the strangle right night, because that's his whole job. Robert, thanks for joining us. Yeah, appreciate it.

Robert Tilden of Boyo can continued success to you, sir, Thank you so much. As the man says, if you're pumping gas, it's okay, just make the meus.

That's what heat myself. But you know what, pump gass as good as you're playing guitar. Yeah, do it with a rhythm, Yeah, never half hearted. Have you ever driven out of gas station with the pump stilling? I did it. You know what happens, It goes with it. I just it rips off and they charge you a lot of money. But it breaks off, I guess. And when I did it, I was distracted as one time I did it. Well, okay, he didn't tell me this. I'm learning something.

Yeah, oh my god, David you too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go.

I was distracted and I pull out and you get that sinking feeling you go oh, and then you hear a noise. Thank god, they know they're idiots, so it doesn't spill and explode. It cuts off. But then a guy walks out to here and goes, happens.

All the time, and then says, it happens. Bill, answer your bill, and you drive up with the sinking feeling you get when you realize I didn't I paid, but I got back in the car and the phone kept talking and didn't take it out of the thing. Oh my god, right, it's a it's a hard I mean, I.

Was, Yeah, I was, to be honest, I was selfishly more worried about my car and what that implied.

I thought, I maybe you would the car and thank you. Yeah, well, David, where'd you do it?

I did it.

I was driving from Oregon to Idaho, and uh I when I got out of the car about you know, one hundred miles later, I discovered you know, the thing stuck in.

There and the dog leash, which was yeah, boy, wow, that kills that. That that's right from vacation. Thank you everybody, ladies and gentlemen, keep making the music. We'll see you next time. Here are really No Really, and always make sure when you've done puffing public service announcement than really.

As another episode of Really No Really comes to it close. I know you're wondering what stars of the music world started in the background of other famous singers. Well, I'll carry you to the answer and home. But first let's thank our guest Mike Campbell. His book Heartbreaker, a Memoir, is available everywhere now and his website The Dirty Knobs dot com lists tour dates and ticket of ails. On Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook, he is at Mike Campbell Official, and on

Online at reallynoreli dot com.

If you have a really some amazing factor story that boggles your mind, share it with us, and if we use it, we will send.

You a little gift. Nothing life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts.

Check out our full episodes on YouTube. Hit that subscribe button and take that bell so you're updated when we release new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday. So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Pop Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now the answer to the question what stars of the music world started in the background of other famous singers, Well, the truth is that many of today's star music artists began anonymously backing up other great artists.

But here are a notable few. Mary J.

Blige was a backup artist, earning her first credit on eighties rapper Father MC's track All Due for You. Cheryl Crowe sang backing vocals for Michael Jackson and traveled on his Bad tour in the late eighties.

She appeared in the music video for Dirty Diana.

Luther Vandross was the go to backup singer throughout the seventies and sang behind stars like David Bowie, Bette Midler, and Ringo Starr when Stefani was actually the backup singer for No Doubt, the band started by her brother Eric and his partner John Spence, but after the tragic death of John Spence, Steffani was moved up to lead singer and the rest is history. Katy Perry sang backup vocals for the Christian metal band Pod and performed with them

Pickett and Aretha Franklin.

Michael McDonald can be heard behind artists like Stephen Bishop and most notably Steely Dan.

His angelic harmonies are.

Most recognizable on the song peg And Lastly, Mariah Carey was studying cosmetology and working as a waitress when she got hired as a backup artist for eighties Poff and R and B Sensation.

Brenda K.

Starr all that to say that the voice behind the star voices is often the person to notice the most.

Take it from me.

The guy who opens and closes for two other guys can.

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