Now, really, really, now, really hello, and welcome to really know Really Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who are giving you a post hypnotic suggestion that everything in your life will feel better.
If you subscribe to our show.
Now. That may seem nuts because it is, but also hypnosis and post hypnotic suggestion are subjects that seem to invite both huge skepticism and equal fascination. We've all seen videos of stage hypnotists who pull random people out of their audience, hypnotize them in what seems like minutes or even seconds, and then suddenly have them clucking like chickens dancing like ballerinas.
Well, Jason and Peter.
Wanted to know if this is just a bunch of nice people playing along with the act, or if stage hypnosis is the real deal, really no really. To get that answer, we turned to doctor David Siegel, who is a pre eminent expert in hypnosis and one of the most successful and renowned hypnoti therapists. So close your eyes, you are.
Getting sleepy, sleepy, But now wake up.
Here's Jason and Peter.
So here we are. We're back again. We're back.
You know how I know you're in black sitting in a black chair. I see ahead, I see a floating head. It's like magic.
You're like, you're like Copperfield over there.
So today, yes, we're talking about hypnosis because you are just fascinated.
Now I know, I know a little bit about hypnosis because I I I actually I will reveal later I'm not a stranger to it.
On either side of the equation what that means.
And by the way, thanks for the visual aid either side of your crazy.
But this came about when I was watching I was in Vegas and I went to one of these, you know, stage hypnosis shows, and I'm going to okay, they spent five minutes. When I've when I've partaken, it takes some time. So five minutes, Yeah, you're sleep Uh if you're aware of everything, everything's fun and your chicken and people are chickens, And I go, okay.
Is that real? So you and I got talking based.
On our experience, where is really stage hypnosis real?
I am so thrilled, thank you. But and then he gets to the bigger issue because our guest not only knows about hypnosis because of his background, but hypnotherapy, but how it can be used to help people with anxiety and cancer and smoking and checker you want to do about you like to.
Back absolutely, So we will be speaking with doctor David Spiegel, who's a Wilson Professor, Associate Chair of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, director of the Center of Stress and Health, and medical director of the Center for Integrated Medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine. He's a very big guy, more than forty years of research and experience in psycho It says psycho oncology.
That's a thing right there. Well, I'm sure you use psycho health with cancer patients. Plus, I've seen a lot of his videos and I want to hopefully he'll do a little bit of self hypnosis today for anxiety because it's fast.
It's fast.
Say, if nothing else, this this impressed Maent. I'll give this one lest right. He's written books and he's on numerous panels, but he was invited to speak on hypnosis at the World Economic for Him in Davos pretty eighteen.
And you know, what's what do they want to know about? You know, that's.
That's a fascinating places into the picture.
That's welcome. Doctor David Spiegel, welcome to really no, really.
Sir, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
So stage stage magic. I know that's not your thing. You're necessarily saying magic, you will say state hypnosis.
Yeah, because you're already poo pooing and lumping it in with me.
I am, I am, and I guess that shows a bias that I don't believe it. Even though that show, even though you had me in Max Max Mavens show, I was on stage doing it, and it is a weird thing doing it because when you're on stage, you're a little disoriented. There's a bit of compliance because other people are doing it, so you kind of go along with it more than not. Okay, but what's your take, being an expert in the field about you see this where they can't lift their hands their chicken.
Well, it's not say have you have you seen, either live or film a stage of Nosa's show.
Yeah, I've seen lots of recordings. I've never been able to stomach ponying up the money to actually pay to watch.
It because I detected a take on it.
Yeah, there is a take on Well, now, the thing is, you know, it's kind of the phenomenon is real, but there's a certain amount of deception that goes on in the way these guys do it, and I just don't like using what I think is a wonderful and powerful phenomenon to make people look silly. But there is actually a message in it. So what they do that I'm sure happened in your show. They don't just grab the first three people and put them all through these things.
What they do is get some people up, try a few things, ask most of them to sit down and keep on stage. The people who respond the most because they are a big different is in hypnotizability, and not everybody can do all that stuff. Not everybody will cluck like a chicken or the football coach and dance like a ballerina. So they've got a first filter out to get to the maybe twenty percent of the population sitting there who are very hypnotizable and then have them do
those extreme things. And it is illustrating that there is this powerful phenomenon out there, that there are people who can do things with their brains and their bodies that we didn't think we could do. That's a very important lesson and something that I use every day in my office. But I don't like the way it's done. It's sort of like snake oil with medicines. You know, there are good uses of medicines, but snake oil isn't on the list.
Is that real?
When they say you can't put down your hands or do you think it is compliance or do you think it is a bit of they whisper in their ear like, hey, this is gonna be fun for the audience whatever. Or can you actually get somebody who's compliant.
To do that?
I just had somebody in my office did it an hour ago. So the answer is yes, it happens. Pull the hand down. You've given them an instruction that it feel like like a balloon and it floats right back up and you're they're surprised. They say, oh my goodness. So we have this kind of intense mind body connection.
And actually, the biggest message I hope your listeners will take the heart is that when he shows the football coach dancing like a ballerina, he's showing that you can try out being different and see what it feels like in hypnosis, and I can tell you what's going on in their brains when they do it, because we've studied.
But it is an opportunity to try out what it would be like if I were a different person, if I didn't react to pain with fear and anger, but rather taught my brain how to reprocess the pain, I could actually feel less pain and be less anxious if I thought, you go ahead.
I just wanted to be because you had mentioned what is actually triggering in the brain when they do that.
Is it a dopamine thing? Is it a what is.
The actually more an inhibitory neurotransmitter dopamine, the feel good neurotransmitter is involved, but it's gamma amino butyric acid GABBA. It's the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, and it is it is the thing that is triggered by benzodiazepines, by anti anxiety medications and some of the sleeping meds, and it calms down, particularly activity in a part of
the brain called the anterior singulate cortex. The singular cortex is to see on its ends in the middle of your brain, and the front part is what we call the salience network. It's the alarm system in the brain.
So you hear a.
Loud noise and oh my god, what was that? That's your salience network saying you better check this out. This could be a danger. We're pretty pathetic physical creatures. We don't run that well. We're not that strong. So if you didn't have an alarm system that warned you when there was trouble lurking around outside your cave, you could be in big trouble. That's what that system does.
Now.
In our case, most of the dangers aren't physical. They're emotional or psychological. So what we do in hypnosis is just turned down activity. There you're less likely to be distracted and you're less likely to be bothered by apparent contradictions. So you know, my left hand really isn't any lighter than my right hand, but you know what, right now it feels that way, and you pull the hand down, and you know what, it just feels like it's going up. Now,
that's surprising, it's strange. The brain can do that for many people. And you turn down that sort of critical part of your brain that says, ah no, that couldn't be, and you find out that it is. That you can be different, and that's a tremendous advantage.
Can you make people get things against their will? Can you make me do something that I would not normally do, or I would find offensive or wrong.
Well, I got you to record me on this. It's let me put it this way. You do to some extent suspend judgment, you don't entirely suspend judgment. So there's a famous story of Jean Martin Scharcot, a famous French neurologist who used to teach people about hypnosis in the eighteenth century. He taught Freud in the early nineteenth century how to how to use hypnosis, and the story was that they had a young woman patient who was very hypnotizable, and they had her to demonstrate that you could do
anything with hypnosis. They had her imagined that her mother was in front of her, and she had an ax in her hand, and she was going to murder her mother. And so she starts screaming and yelling and swinging her arms, and the professor marches off, saying, see, I've proven it. Well, the trainees thought they'd try one other thing with her.
She was still hypnotized. They said, well, you know, it's getting time for bed, and you're going to take off your clothes and go to bed, and she opened her eyes, told them to go to hell, and stomped out of the room so she could she knew the difference between play acting killing her imaginary mother and taking her real clothes off in front of a bunch of lascivious medical students. So, yes,
people can you're reducing the threshold. You're saying, I'll do some strange things, but when it comes to something with serious consequences, in most circumstances, I think people won't do that. They turn it down, but they don't eliminate judgment.
Okay, the other thing that I've seen.
That seems so jit but I don't with my understanding of hypnosis and what it can do, I don't understand why this is a possibility.
But I have seen.
Things acts of physical strength that are greatly enhanced by people under that state. Why would what you're describing also enable somebody to access, you know, more more physical ability.
Hypnosis involves three things. It involves intense focus of attention. It's like looking through a telephoto lens and a camera. What you see, you see with great detail. You put outside of conscious awareness things it would ordinarily be in consciousness. So right now, you guys are sitting in I'm sure wonderfully comfortable chairist there, but hopefully you aren't even aware of the sensations in your butts touching these chairs right right. If you were, we could just stop the interview now.
And so you're doing something that involves a certain amount of physical experience in contact that you're just not aware of. You're putting an outside of consciousness, so you dissociate it. That's the second thing. And the third thing is you you inhibit the part of your brain that says you shouldn't be doing this, or people like you don't do things like this, or you know what your mother would think of you if you did. You turned down that
that self evaluation. So in those circumstances, you can intensify your response. It's sort of like what you saw the Olympic athletes do that they focus very intently. Or think about Steph Curry, you know, with that final three pointer that won the game, with these two huge guys blocking him, and he's just all he's focused on is his connection with the ball, and he's done that so many times. I love watching him, and so the other stuff just disappeared.
So he was able to do something that very few people could do because he's so skilled. By narrowing his focus of attention figuring out how to get back away from those guys and get the ball in the basket. That's that's hypnotic like statement.
Can hypnosis help recall memories, forgotten memories, past memories accurately?
Well?
Yes, to the extent that any memory recall is active. I mean, our brain records vast amounts of information, but it's not a you know, it's not a digital recorder. But that said, memory is mainly works by association, by context. So when you went back, if you went back to your grade school sometime years later, you know, you probably started remembering things if you hadn't thought of since you were in grade school, the asty kid in the next locker,
or you know, whatever else it was. And so with hypnosis, you can intensify your focus, you can intensify your experience of not just thinking about it, but being there and trigger association and so. And there are times when people who have traumatic experiences can deal with the unpleasant emotions that come with it, calming themselves, reminding themselves that they're now safe, but allow their brains to reaccess experiences that were painful or difficult. So can that happen?
Yes?
Is it an absolute guarantee that the memory is completely accurate. No, but that's true for all memories that you know.
What that reminds me of. I don't know if you ever saw this, Peter.
There was a there was a fairly famous story in the in the UFO community, but it was done as a docu drama as well, about a couple named Betty and Barney Hill that could not account for They were on a road trip and they couldn't account for a
period of their lives. They basically felt like they had a blackout experience and it was freaking them out, and they went to a therapist first of all, and then a hypnotherapist who under hypnosis regressed them back to this period that they couldn't count for, and individually, separately, they started to recall from their own perspective an alien abduction and what happened to them, and it became a very famous story in the UFO community.
But my question always was.
Would we be more correct to assume that they were recounting something they actually experienced or believed the experience, or did it open up a key to their imagination and their imaginations went off on a spin.
Yeah, the answer is yes. I mean, I think it's entirely possible. I think it's likely that it opened a key to their imagination. And you know, you can have people in hypnosi vividly picture something, you know, like that young woman imagining murdering her mother that just didn't happen, but it's vivid. So with the narrow focus of attention, allows you, on the one hand, to intensely focus on the concept, on what you're doing and maybe therefore access
real memories better. Or it can say, it can be an instruction to imagine things, and I do that with ignosis all the time. Picture yourself in a pleasant situation. Imagine you're floating in a band of like Debra floating in space, and they do it. My patient just an hour ago was saying, oh, yeah, you know, I'm floating in the Pacific Ocean outside near Hawaii. Guy with a lot of anxiety problems. But he was able instantly to so affiliate with this image of a place where he
obviously was not. That his body felt better and his anxiety went from four to one. So it can go either way. It's no truth serum, but it can allow us to intensely focus.
So turning to that idea of what you do for much of your professional life. What reasonably do people turn to hypnotherapists or hypnotherapy for?
What is you know areas that are.
Reasonable to expect some results and perhaps some that are ridiculous.
Well, it's very reasonable to expect help with problems like stress management, because stress is a mind body interaction where you worry about something, you notice your body getting tense, and then you think, oh my god, this must be really bad. It's like a snowball rolling downhill. It just picks ups. Right, So you can use hypnosis to help people manage their physical stress. First, go to Hawaii and
float in the ocean. And then I had him picture a problem that he's really struggling with in his work, and he was able doing that while keeping his body camp to picture a first step. I know the meeting, I know the people I need to convene to work on solving this problem. And he literally made himself feel better by keeping his body comfortable but also allowing his mind to stop panicking and focus on the next step to dealing with the problem. So that's the kind of thing you can do.
And are you able to turn that into a therapy he can access without being in a session with you. Are you able to turn that into a therapy he can access without being in a session with you.
Yes, indeed. And either people can just remember how to do it, or We've built an app called reverie r E V E ri I where you get to hear my malifluous voice anytime you want, and I give instructions about getting your body floating, and then I'll ask is your body floating now? And if they say yes, I go on to the next step of dealing with the problem. If not, I help them to intensify that. So it's a digital interactive app that helps people with problems like stress.
With pain, we teach people to filter the hurt out of the pain. Imagine you're in a you know, if your if your back is really sore, or you at surgery or something. Imagine you're floating the lake. Cruel tingly enough filtered the hert out of the pain. And we have randomized clinical trials that prove that people taught self ignosis during medical procedures have significantly less pain and less
anxiety and shorter precedure time because they're so comfortable. Then people who have standard care just pushing a button and getting opiates.
Yeah, this is this?
Like okay, so is this like you're changing the client's expectations like the placebo effect, except with no deception.
Is that what this is?
It's it's that you're right, no deception, but it's more powerful than the placebo effect. There have been studies that compare the two, and the placebo effect. If you're not very hypnotizable, is like trying to experience hignosis. But if you're hypnotized, you can literally tolerate keeping your hand in
cold water longer. If you're using hypnosis, you're imagining you've got a warm glove on your hand, it's filtering out the cold, and you will literally feel less discomfort and deal with the cold water temperature longer.
All right, So this was a thing that happened to me. There was a point in my life where I thought it was going to be fired. Doesn't radio a long time. I was sure I was going to lose my job. And I was telling this guy who wasn't even that close a friend who I was walking with, and he said, you know something, you're firing yourself three four times a night. You may get fired at some point and you'll figure it out. But you're firing yourself every single night, and
it resonated in such a strong way. How would hypnotherapy aid that if somebody's going through that to the story that they're telling themselves.
Well, you know, hypnosis has been called believed in imagination. So it's not just that you're imagining, but you're not saying, oh, I'm sitting here imagining it. Your friend who who deserves a psychotherapist's license, what he did was helping you to
put it in perspective. They say, yes, you're having these fears, you have that anxiety, but the way you're doing it makes it seem like it's actually happening, and that just amplifies your anxiety and you feel the physical tension and you think, oh my god, this must be serious, and on you go. So what what you can do with hypnosis is picture something that helps to correct the situation, or just you can detach yourself from it to the
extent that you realize you're imagining it. It's not happening, but you're experiencing it as though it were happening, and that just makes you more and more anxious for real.
Before before we go, would you mind. Could you do a little bit for people watching now who's never experienced that? Absolutely, take us, take us through a little bit of self power.
Is by the way, the posted not suggestion of tuning in every Tuesday as new episodes drop of really it would.
I'm getting sleeper. You can't raise your arms and drop right. So that's right. You just tore it up and made dirty something so beautiful.
No, no, I took advantage of a beautiful opportunity to do what's for not what's advantage of?
So proud of you?
How this is the pod calling the kettle black. He starts off with stage ship notis in magic shows, and he's accusing you.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, All right, here we go.
All right, get as comfortable as you can. On one, do one thing, look up all the way up as you can. On two, do two things. Slowly close your eyes and take a deep breath. And on three, do three things. Let the breath out, let your eyes relax, but keep them closed, and let your body float. And it's let your body float. Let one hand or the other float up in the air like a balloon. Rest in a comfortable, upright position. Each breath deeper and easier.
And now imagine you're floating somewhere safe and comfortable, the lake, hot tub, or floating in space. And I want you to breathe in a special way and hail through your nose, starting with your belly. Stick out your belly, hold now, fill your chest completely, expand your chest, and then slowly exhale through your mouth. And again and hail through your nose, starting with your belly, Expand your chest, nice slow exhale
through your mouth. So you're using your imagination to float, and you're helping your body breathe in a way that enhances your ability to relax. Each breath deeper and easier and nice slow exhale. Now, picture in your mind's eye an imaginary screen. It could be a movie screen, a TV screen, or of cool blue sky. And picture on it a place where you naturally feel comfortable, a lake, or floating in the ocean, or lying in a mountain meadow. And notice how you can help your mind and your
body feel more comfortable. And if something is troubling you, divide the screen in half. On the left side, picture one thing that's bothering you, but with the rule that no matter what you see on the screen, your body is relaxed and comfortable, and notice how you can look at it more clearly, and then use the right side of the screen as your problem solving screen. Picture one thing you can do about the problem on the left. Notice how you can feel better by formulating a strategy.
It's not the only one, may not be the best one, but it's a way of dealing with the problem. And now, if you're trying to get to sleep, get back to sleep. Keep your body floating, and just picture whatever it is you're thinking about on the screen. Put away from your body like you're watching a bad home movie, but just allow your body to feel floating, relaxed, and comfortable as you let these thoughts and feelings and images flow through you.
One more nice deep breath in, starting with your belly and your chest, and now slowly exhale through your mouth. Now we'll come out of the state of if not a concentration, feeling relaxed afresh. On three, you'll look up two with your eyelids close, Roll up your eyes again. On one, let your eyes open, let your hand float back down, make a fist open, and that'll be the end of the exercise.
Three two I learned a lot. At first, I have to ask you, how was that.
It's hard for me to be still because I'm adhd whatever, but that was really helpful. It's almost like a gift. We go, I'm going to take a minute for myself and just cater to something which we don't know.
Now, I'm going to reveal something that I teased at the beginning, which was I took a course in hypnosis about how to to to you know, an introductory course of how to help somebody go into a hypnotic state. And I remember being so impressed by it and learning a lot, and was actually able to.
Do it for one or two people in a very light way.
But at the same time, everybody in the class was also the participant, so you know, many times we were invited up to be the person put under and the guy teaching me when you're having a really hard time, aren't you? And I felt like I was never able to do it, and it wasn't because I was resistant. And doctors people, well, maybe you can actually confirm or
deny some of this. What I have heard is that some of the best people subjects for you know, sort of demonstration hypnosis would be people like soldiers because they are used to having a physical response to an auditory command more or less. When when I was being given suggestions of how to relax and what to picture and what to do even now I'm going, hey, hey, that's a lot of stuff I'm not you know, my mind goes, well, wait, I just started doing this.
Now you're asking me to do this. I wasn't ready to breathe, and.
I'm having a dialogue in my head that I have a very hard time shutting off. So as a lot of people are giving over to the ideas and giving over to the sensations, my system actually can start to get a little more proclamped and frustrated because I'm going that's faster. Oh wow, I wasn't ready, and I'm my head is saying that internally, going.
Oh I wasn't ready. I'm not ready yet. Oh I don't like that.
Oh I did that, and it's so hard, and so now you haven't you know, we talk about sleep issues.
That's how I have to go to bed to go shut up. Wow. So it's so interesting.
This area is so interesting to me because I have participated from the other side.
So, did you just have a hard time with this thing. I was.
I was smiling because I'm going I'm doing it again. I'm doing it again. He's going on until I'm going on. I'm still on three.
So, doctor, and before you go the diagnosis for Jason, how does he somebody like that who possesses that pushback?
How do you? How do you overcome that?
There? Well, you don't overcome it, you work with it. There are differences in hypnotizability, So I'm guessing that Jason is not very hypnotizable. The fact that you can't turn off your critical judgment, even in situations where you might is more typical of people who are not very hypnotizable, and people who are, they just they go with the flow. They let themselves experience it, and later they may think, well, why did he do that? And it doesn't make any sense?
Right, But.
I suspect people differ in their hypnotizability. It's as stable a trait in adult life as I Q over a twenty five year interval. And I'm guessing you would score on the on the low side rather.
Than have just that.
Is you have that, they will write that on my toom. You scored on the low side, Doctor Spiegel.
Thank you thank you forgetting his We know I now know how to what to point on his to him stone or the earn. Thank you for coming on. And by the way, you want to check out reverie dot.
Com r E v E.
I am down, I'm doing it.
I'm doing it. Thanks for your time.
I'm so glad. Thank you for having me on pleasure.
Well, here's what we know is I would I would be dismissed from the stage.
And it's funny. We know each other a long time. Yeah, it's funny.
How this this podcast, as we've learned new stuff about each other.
That didn't I just want to do this in as a high school summer course, and unfortunately I can't remember the gentleman's name who was teaching the course. I would accredit him, but it was fascinating and I have seen things like a student in the class was deeply under and at that point this man was able to stick pins in this guy's arm up and down his arm. Now, even given that heat burns up not down, the guy put a lit match in this guy's palm and allowed it to burn out and said, not only will you
not feel anything, but there will be no burn. There will be no mark, there will be no nothing. And the guy and he's and he's seems as wide awake as you and I are. And he's looking at it and under hypnosis with a burning match of this, and he's going, oh my god, there's a there's a burning match in my I mean, he's fully aware, and yet he and even the freak of going, oh my god, I'm holding the match. Nothing of that happened. So I have seen and participated in how sort of astonishing this
could be. But I was an impossible subject.
And without rancor.
The guy said to me, no, you are, you're the way your mind fires, This would be very challenging for you.
My noise is totally inside.
It's it's literally when he's going, on three, you'll do this, On two, you'll do this, and on one you'll do this. And I'm going to did he mean that was the three? Should I have been done it? Should I have done it already? It's I'm trying to process what's happening on the inside.
And he's going split the screen.
Side and on the right side see a solution, and on the right side, I see me killing the thing on So wait.
A minute, So to be fair about it, to be fair about it. When my hands threw up in the air, the one, two, three, things not totally clear. He goes in on three and I'm going to set the three? Are we doing the three? Were going to this three?
Right? Yeah, David, David still out. His hand never came down. The doctor never said put your hand, David, put your hand down.
Can we get him back on?
Because I cannot get this guy get his hand down.
David.
Stop, look at me, Look at me. Yeah, you're getting sleepy. Yeah, you're getting sleepy. Sit on your hand.
Your hand is going down. It's reaching for your wallet. Take your wallet.
We do it different. There's nothing in there. There's nothing, all right, So tell us what did we miss? What happened?
Well, this is my mouth hand.
I should have done the bit of God's sake, for God's say, like.
Hendrick, he's got to learn how to play with his left hand now, and by the way, and do and.
Other stuff and other and other stuff.
Yeah, yes, David, Yeah, I just started up.
You know, I was looking to see like you know, his hypnosis is the real thing, and blah blah blah and this stuff. And then I was looking into famous people who have actually used hypnosis for different things. Sure, Albert Einstein used a form of self hypnosis when he was sort of ruminating over the physics and all of that, and that has been attributed to some of the aspects of him coming up.
With the theory of relativity.
We also have other people like Julia.
Roberts uh huh.
She and her brother when they were younger were dealing with a stutter in speech issues. They both used apparently hypnosis. We also got Tiger Woods used it for the stroke, ohoh oh, Reese Witherspoon for anxiety and issues like that.
Mary lou Retten was suffering.
With apparently really bad foot pain when she, of course a famous gymnast in the Olympics to gold in the eighties. Mozart apparently wrote one of his famous operas Wild Hypnotized and and here's the thing, and now here's a question for you at the end to wrap me up. What do Matt Damon, Drew Barrymore, Ellen DeGeneres, Beta affleck or reflec Ashton, Kutcher, and Charlie's their own have in common.
None of them listen to this podcast. They all like that. They're big fans of Seersucker.
No, wow, these are interesting.
I guess they have nothing to do with hypnosis, which maybe I don't know. They were all they all used hypnosis to quit smoking.
Oh yes, now I'll tell you something. Here's what.
There's another very famous group of people that you did not mention, who are alive only through the power of suggestion in the mind. In the Star Trek episode good Night Everybody, Actor of the Gun where the Star Trek crew is transported to a fake Okay correct, the fake Okay Corral. Uh, and they everything they experience there will have real life effects. But Spock, the true logician, has determined that it's all an illusion, a very believable illusion.
And he said, the way to survive the gunfight that we inevitably will have it the Okay Corral is to know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the bullets.
Are not real. They are illusions. And uh, I think shadow, says will Spock. That's easy for you. But if any of us have a shadow of a doubt, he goes, then you will die.
And so he mind melts, which is really just hypnosis. It's just hypnosis. He mind melts them going they are shadows, they are not bul and the guy stand there and and Wyatt upen his gango bang bang bang bang bang, and they stand there and they're unaffected. And that's how they beat the Melchotians and make the Melchotians believe that humanity is a superior race, all through the power of hypnosis.
Good night, everybody, And you.
Know it had been great, right and then we got a run What would have been great if that was the final episode of Star Trek and didn't work.
At one?
Guy went one if.
And we're done and we're out, Thank you everybody. David, Wait a minute, David, are you still in hypnosis or you have a question?
So why you're hand up?
And I have no questions. I'm still in hypnosis. I'm getting I'm getting the reverie app is all I'm saying. I gotta get the I gotta get the doctor back.
Good luck with the hands.
Yeah, as another episode, really no really comes to an end. I know you're wondering, has anyone ever claimed that they committed a crime because they were under the spell of hypnosis? Well I'll entrance you with that answer in a moment, but first let's thank our guest, doctor David Siegel. You can follow the doctor on his website Reverie dot com.
That's our e V E R I.
You can also follow him on Instagram where he is at Reverie or on x where he is at Reverie Underscore Health.
Find all pertinent links in our show notes.
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Check out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and take that bell so you're updated when we release new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday. So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And now the answer to the question, has anyone ever claimed that they committed a crime all hypnotized, Well you bet they've claimed it. In fact, a whole bunch of people have tried to use it as a get out of jail free card.
Some of the most famous include In nineteen fifty one, a pale hard Drop of Denmark rob Debank and killed two employees. He claimed he had been hypnotized by a former cellmate. In fact, he said the whole plot was meant to finance a larger plan to form a new fascist party. The cellmate, Bjorn Nielsen, was ultimately convicted of manipulating Hardrump, making this a rare case where the hypnosis
defense actually worked. In nineteen eighty one, Stephen Steinberg of Arizona was acquitted of the murder of his wife after claiming he had been sleepwalking during the trial. His lawyers suggested that hypnosis could have played a role in suppressing his conscious awareness of the act. The jury determined he was not ultimately in a conscious state when the crime went down, and Steinberg was.
Acquitted as well.
But this defense fails more often than not. For example, Albert de Salvo, the famed Boston strangler of the nineteen sixties, tried to retract his confession, claiming he had been hypnotized to falsely take credit for the crime. DeSalvo had in fact been hypnotized to better recall memories of his own trauma and details of his multiple killings, but no evidence was ever found that hypnotists planted or altered memories.
And DeSalvo was soundly found guilty.
In short, folks, if you want to be in a hypnost just show and cluck like a hen.
Go for it.
We could always use the eggs. Just don't blame the guy if you cross legal lines afterward. Sevenali is unlikely to take the fall.
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