Unveiling mortgage tactics and building wealth: an engaging conversation with Mark McGoldrick

How are you ? I'm great . Gary , how are you doing ? I'm excited to be here today . I can fix this fucking thing . You're not supposed to throw that language out and you and I , as we prepare , we were thinking that it would be great if we could give a run to the highest rated podcast in the country today , which would be the Kelsey Brothers .

So we're gonna give it a shot , being Philadelphia Eagles fans that we are .

What an interesting time to talk about the mortgage business and the real estate business , right For sure . We're wrapping up 2023 and boy . A year of challenges , opportunities , changes , lawsuits , rising interest rates , low inventory . But you and I we were laughing last night a little bit . I was actually thinking you were younger than you are .

I thought you started in the mortgage business in 1990 . So a couple of things we wanna do today , mark . We wanna get to know you a little bit . For the Alan Tate Howard Hanna family that listens to the reality podcast they tell me each and every week , so I'm just gonna go with it .

But certainly your 30 plus year experience career in the mortgage business just makes it a real exciting time for our company , howard Hanna Mortgage and the Alan Tate Real Estate Company to have you back . So why don't you just spend a few minutes on kind of how you got started in the mortgage business and a little bit about your journey ?

So I did that , and one of the things about Drexel that some people know is they have a deep internship program . So over the course of your time there you go through three internships .

So I went through the first one with a company that's now known as Lincoln Financial , a second one with Vanguard , and when I got to my third I thought you know what I really need to experience a smaller company .

So what at the time was Roach Brothers Realtors ran a mortgage company and they were kind enough to offer me a job and , like most people in the mortgage business , I got into it accidentally , and that was 1988 and I'm still in the mortgage business now .

So I've seen a lot of things around technology and business processes and people come and go , but so many of the things are still core , which is about relationships , trust , and so much of that is the same 30 plus years later than it was back in 1988 . So what's that ? 35 years ? Wow , it's 35 years .

So Mark and I we share many interests , but one of them is certainly our passion for professional sports in the city of Brotherly Love .

So we are certainly enjoying the football ride that we've been on , albeit it's funny , we record these and they play a couple of weeks later I can just tell the audience that we are five days away from that game in which they stole it from the Buffalo Bill . So Mark and I are in a pretty good way right now .

Mark , great backdrop on Roach Brothers slash Trident . But in 1998 , I think was kind of an important landmark year in your career and you share with our listeners kind of what transpired , I think , spring to summer of 1998 .

It was also early March in Philadelphia and 25 degrees warmer in Charlotte , so that was pretty exciting . So I took advantage of both of those things , flew down , met with Pat , long story short , after 60 , 90 days decided this was the place to bring my family and make that move and pretty similar to your time in Gary .

So we laugh about Pat's risk tolerance for hiring two guys our age and in our low 30s at the time to spearhead some organizational change . It's pretty impressive and I am forever thankful that Pat had a lot of courage and wisdom in choosing us . Hopefully he thinks he had courage and wisdom .

But that's what got me here and I had been with a company that was a real estate and mortgage company , so this was a really familiar place and had seen some success . So the biggest thing I had going for me was I had gotten to participate and observe a lot of the right things to do .

I didn't invent them , but taking a game plan that was working and layering it on top of a company that was 600 miles away seemed reasonable and I guess , seemed reasonable to Pat at the time . So that's what got me launched down to Charlotte .

I haven't left since , as Gary you alluded to , I took a little hiatus of 17 years , but the opportunity to be close to some of the smartest real estate people I know is just too great of an opportunity . So I'm thrilled to be back .

I think that this podcast is certainly not about us , but I think one of the things when you think about our company and you think about our parents , our parent company , and you think about the importance of culture and you think about you made some comments about the more things change , the more things stay the same .

And relationships to trust , and we're going to talk about all of that as we talk about kind of the mortgage landscape and we'll tie in some real estate landscapes . So , as a reminder to our listeners , our goal of the reality podcast from the beginning and I think we're now into probably episode 80 . And it's been great .

We had amazing guests on Agents , high performers , brand new agents , social media , mortgage folks . We had Hoby Han and we had Pat Riley I think coming soon will be Pat and my predictions for 2024 . Typically we review our predictions that we made the year before , but I'm going to just share this .

We're not doing that because that would be self-incriminating , but I think that it's a reminder to all of us that let's be careful of who the experts are . And I was reminded , mark , I was sitting in a meeting and somebody sat in the back and they said the experts are saying this is what interest rates are going to be in 2024 .

And I asked the question so who are the experts ? Are they the same people ? A year ago , that said in the fourth quarter of 23 , they'd be back to five ? Is that the expert that you're alluding to ?

And I think that really speaks to this entire concept that I know you and I spend time on , and that is we can only control , we control , we can only control . We can't really control whether they're seven , seven and a half six , seven . We can't . We can control what we do with the information we have .

We can control how we interact with consumers , buyers and sellers . So we're going to come back a little bit to some of your previous experience , because I think it really speaks to why this is such a great opportunity .

But let's talk a little bit about the business , and one of the things that I think is very interesting is the availability of just an array of mortgage products , and I'm going to shift gears a little bit .

We so fundamentally believe that mortgage products are for buyers , but I think we have mortgage products that are for sellers , and I think that one of the things that we want to encourage our professionals , our trusted advisors , is when I'm on a listing , let me talk about the mortgage programs offered by Howard Hennep Mortgage that can help you market , sell and

expose your property . We have so historically been mortgage is the buyer , mortgage is the buyer . So why don't you just share with the audience , like , how do we turn that narrative around , where we've got programs that the listing agent needs to be really locked in on to help get that home sold .

Now I'm well aware of the inventory challenge , so it's not like we're out there . We all need more listings .

But when we go out on that listing we have to remember the chance of that seller having an interest rate that's different than the one is highly probable and that the buyer has some kind of mindset thought about what they didn't get two and a half years ago .

So I just share with the audience a little bit about mortgage programs , listing agents for the seller .

you know . I'll give two examples . So there is a little used program for the last decade because of record low interest rates , called a temporary buy down , and it's where the seller pays a portion of closing costs and the buyer uses that to take their rate down . So what's really intriguing about this is builders are using this constantly .

Over the last year this has been a new strategy for builders and I think of builders as professional sellers of real estate . They think every day hey , I don't have one house to sell , I've got a hundred houses to sell . They keep great statistics on traffic and who's buying and who's not buying .

So I look to professional sellers as a really good guidepost of what's the right thing to do . And what they know is just what you described , which is , hey , my buyers might feel locked in on their three and a half percent interest rate and have some sticker shock at seven , seven and a half .

We got across eight a couple of months ago or a month and a half ago . So they're figuring out how do I help people through the psychology of that and if I can take this seven and a quarter percent interest rate , which is about where we are today .

As we sit here on Thursday and turn that into five and a quarter percent for a year , six and a quarter percent for the next year and then seven and a quarter percent for the remainder of the time , what I've really done is potentially bridge my buyer to an opportunity to refinance .

The general consensus and we'll say the quote unquote experts think the rates are coming down . As a non expert , I tend to agree with them . Whether that next rate is six or five , it's probably not four , it's probably not three , but it's better , so there'll be a better day .

So these professional sellers , also known as builders , are thinking how do I make this a better day today and get somebody to take a move ? Because , no matter where rates go , for a lot of factors and maybe we can talk about this down the road it appears that home prices are going up . They may not go up 10 , 15 percent , but they're going up .

So tomorrow's more expensive than today . So if I can pull people forward to today with an offering of a lower interest rate , I've served them and I've served the seller of the builder at the same time .

Second thing is we're getting ready to roll out a renovation program and what we think about is that incredible neighborhood that has a 1955 house that retirees just moved out of . They don't have it decorated , it looking the way you'd want to see , and but we've got a really affordable house and a really nice neighborhood . And how do we fix that ?

And looking at a renovation program and sellers , having somebody walks in there whose first reaction might be ooh , you know , I want the open floor plan , I want the beautiful white kitchen with marble , granite countertops and painting a picture that says , hey , here , let me help you with how you could see your way through that , even if you don't necessarily have

the money at hand to do that . So you know , those are just two ways I think that we can creatively work together to create more available buyers at a better price point for our sellers or listers .

And then , last I would just say , is sellers or buyers , most of the time , so helping them see a vision of what they can have at the next house , because maybe they're on the fence of maybe I sell , maybe I don't , what if I sell and I don't find the right house ? And we have solutions to that problem .

So three ways I think we can help sellers and listing agents .

We've been blessed to be in the Carolinas , we're outperforming the rest of the country , but how do we explain it in a way that the average person is going to understand it ? Tomorrow is more expensive than today , like everybody will get that , so I love that . And then and I haven't heard this home builders are professional sellers .

So let's watch what a home builder does to your point . They don't have one , right ?

And you know , I think one of the other things you and I I walked in your office the other day and I was telling a story about , you know , when we worked together 20 , 20 , some odd years ago , you know , super impressed at the time .

But one of the things that I either don't remember which is a high probability , by the way was just this thirst for data that you have the analytics , like it's all math like there's analytics , and you and I have talked time again in your brief time Back is how do we get data that then we can make decisions ?

So , to talk a little bit about the analytics and the things you look at and the things you look for and how in today's world of AI and predictive analytics , I've been very impressed , as we've had hallway conversations of your pre-laser focused on this information that you will then turn , in my belief , with your team , into some strategies to take advantage of

empirical data . Not , I got a hunch .

Right , because there's going to be some commonality there . You look for some commonality , and so I watch a lot of things to do with the economy . I watch a lot of things to do with how people behave , what the consumer is doing , what a loan officer is doing , what realtors are up to and to me .

I'm looking for how do we best use our time , because there are 100 strategies to employ , but if we're playing the odds and we employ these three really , really well , in an excellent manner , our likelihood of success and spending our time in the right way goes up .

The other thing is , I think of just kind of team dynamics , and we're in a time of year where people think about planning what's going to happen , what should happen , and for so many people , myself included , you want to know the why , like , why do I do this ? Here's a strategy and again , I can employ any number of them . But why do I do this ?

And when we look at here's a few data points that say the likelihood of success is high , or maybe the likelihood of failure or non-success is high , so let's not emphasize things like that and just being prepared , and then a lot of it is , there are universal things that were things we used 20 years ago about relationship development and trust .

So where do you want to spend your time ? Developing relationships and doing the things that will help consumers , realtors , appraisers , closing attorneys . Trust us Because we're thoughtful about what we do and how we spend our time and it doesn't have to make us always right .

But you just play the odds and it comes from , maybe , a lack of trust of my gut about the data , whereas I do trust my gut about things like how we handle relationships and how we build trust . So if we put those two things together , I just get a better outcome .

A third of the people fell short and a third of the people are probably right where they thought they would be . Some variation of that percentage and you have to spend as they would the analogy a little time in the rear view mirror .

If you spend too much time , you hit the car in front of you but you really got to look at the windshield , and I think that that's one of the things we're really encouraging every one of our listeners is if there was ever a year whether you're in the mortgage business or the real estate business , or the insurance business or the title business or any business

if there was ever a year where you were a thoughtful business plan with specific strategies and tactics , it's 2024 . To your point , because I only have so many hours in a day and I better maximize those hours because it moves and it bobs and it weaves . So I'm going to come back and talk to you about controlling the transaction .

I think a lot of people ask us and I would say , question us perhaps , but really it's the why , like , why should an allentate agent we'll use that specifically , though we have listeners from other brands why should we be so focused in 2024 , on just this concept of controlling the transaction , whether it be the mortgage , whether it be the insurance , whether it

be the title ? Because , I think if everyone understands the why , that becomes much easier . So , from Mark McGoldrick's perspective , the significant importance of controlling the transaction not only from A to Z but then from C back to A after closing for the duration of average buyer's not doing it for another nine to 11 years .

I had a long time to bring value through relationships and trust . Talk about controlling the transaction .

But what really we lean on and lean into is exceptional value , and to me , exceptional value is a couple of things . One is it's a consumer experience that says I was available for you when you needed me . Sometimes that's Sunday afternoon , sometimes it's Friday night . I was available when you needed me . I gave you great counsel .

So we talk a lot about different mortgage products and rates and why you would do what you do .

A friend and mentor of mine his business mantra he's a mortgage guy and his business mantra is my mortgage practice is designed to help consumers build wealth through real estate and I thought , well , that's pretty good , right .

So part of building wealth is I have a lot of passion around getting first-time home buyers into home , because they start building wealth when they do that , and that isn't always easy and , honestly , today it's harder than ever because they might be competing with Wall Street and Cash money for a seller that can close in two weeks and they've got a more complicated

situation . So we've got to help those type of people . But that's how we start building wealth . The second way we build wealth is we put them into the right mortgage program and we think about their situation . So a couple of months ago , we crossed a threshold in the US where the US Consumer has over one trillion dollars in consumer credit card debt .

Think about that . So a 22% interest rate , that would be $220 billion in interest every year . So we might meet a consumer , says you know great news I got 20% to put down and we can look at that and go okay . But I see your whole picture .

And what if we take that $20,000 and we add it to the mortgage and that's going to increase your mortgage by probably about $110 a month , but it's going to decrease your credit card payment by $330 a month and the things they can do that make college savings better , keep their interest rates down to keep their interest costs down , just make their life better .

And then some might say , well , yeah , but I'm putting debt onto a 30 year mortgage instead of a shorter term credit card , and that may or may not work for that person . But another way to look at that is go , okay . So what you're telling me is you're comfortable with that additional $250 a month payment . What if you kept paying it ?

But you paid it to your mortgage ? What you do then is you take the 30 year mortgage and you turn it into a 20 year mortgage and , and that saves you about $180,000 worth of mortgage payments on those last 10 years that you're not making . Does that make sense to you ?

And again , we don't make these decisions for the consumer , but a good lender , bringing great value builds wealth , and that Wealthier customer is there for a second home or a move up Down the road .

So I think that these are all ways we can help in really subtle with subtle opportunities that can be easily missed in Building better customers , building happier customers , building customers that can retire earlier , they can buy the second home , that can move up , that can help their children buy a home one out of four Homes the first time home buyers buy have a

gift . Not every parent can afford to provide a gift . Maybe we've done a little something to help a few more . 28 year olds , 32 year olds , get $5,000 , $10,000 from mom and dad that make all the difference in the world for them . So those are the kind of things we think about in terms of adding value .

But to your point , right , it's all about . You know how do we leverage , how do we ? Number one it's about understanding , right , and you know I think that phrase I like to use . His numbers are really interesting , but if I know what to do with them , I can be , it can be impactful . I wrote down here you know how do we leverage it .

So think about Again if we , if we focus on the three takeaways today and some of them are gonna be phrases but I also think about you know , those who own homes are 80% more wealthy , 80 times 80 times as well , that right 80 times as wealthy as those who don't correct upon and and like . Those are the things .

And we talk about first-time homebuyers and you know , I think that I have shared at a couple sales meetings mark where I've talked to really , really bright young people like super bright , like Smarter than me , for sure , and they're not buying why ? Because interest rates are seven and a half percent .

And both of these guys did know I was in the real estate business and they said do you know what interest rates are ? And I said well , I got a hunch like I got some idea and they're like I'm not buying .

And my answer to them is well , you're not buying it seven and a half , but you're renting and we joke at a hundred , right , and these are really smart kids and they're like .

I didn't understand that like , and so I think one of the things we can't assume as Real estate professionals , trusted advisors or loan officers is we can't assume people know , right , because we're in it Like we're in it every day and we just we can't assume , and I think one of the things that's really critical in 2024 is Taking the opportunity whether I'm a

realtor , loan officer , whether I'm an insurance consultant is Take time to talk to my sphere In a way that doesn't assume they know anything , because they're reading a headline , right , they're listening to a friend , they're listening to the news , right , and I think that our job we really have to be educators Really to the nth degree in 2024 , because I think ,

in the absence of that , they're gonna . They're gonna listen and Listen and buy into the last narrative that they heard . Absolutely great , let's see . I've got some . I got a couple other questions . So interest rates , so I actually think Mark McGoldrick is an expert , just gonna go on the record .

So that question that Winston Salem asked me about the experts Well , clearly they didn't interview you , so we're not gonna hold mark to this .

But , as you think about 2024 and in light of studying the economy and analytics in 35 years in the business , what do you think interest rates will do in 2024 ?

So 3 to 5 , 3% to 5% can feel more painful than 7% to 7.5% , because it's the change , the delta on that , which is really what we feel . So the good news is I think we're going to feel better .

The Federal Reserve makes me want to hit myself in the head with a stick every once in a while because they just don't appear sometimes to be listening to the data that we see . So they made some statements in September about more tightening and the bond market punished us for that Over time , and it's been in the last four to six weeks .

The data seems to be helping us . Inflation seems to be coming down . As we sit here , on the 30th of November the Fed's favorite measure of inflation , pc personal consumption , went from 3.4% to 3% . So it's not two where they want , but that's a big jump for a month in the year over year numbers .

So employment has been good to very good , but when you look behind some of the numbers , a lot of the job increases have been in hospitality these aren't necessarily high paying jobs and the number of hours people work has been coming down . So there's things that are behind the numbers that show maybe we're not as solid as we would be .

So after some of the experts get some time to digest a headline number , you see the instant reaction to the market that day is it might be off , but then it starts to leak back as people have time to look behind the numbers . So it tells me things are getting better . Many mays predicting an average interest rate of 6.1% for 2024 .

They're going to go into the year at probably around 7 . So if you're going to get an average at 6 , I mean somewhere you've got to get into the 5s to get an average at 6 . They may be right , they may be wrong , maybe at 6.25 or 6.5 or 5.75 . But there is real consensus around a decrease in interest rates .

A lot of the consensus around a decrease in interest rates has been reliant on a recession , which you and I are probably not rooting for for other reasons . Sure , we get one good thing rates come down but other things tend to be more painful . But today , in a recent Wall Street Journal poll of economists . 48% of them predicted a recession next year .

This time last year , 63% of them predicted a recession . So the experts were wrong again .

But the idea of a slowing economy , whether that crosses the barrier into recession or not , is pretty much across the board and that is going to give housing a little time to breathe , maybe catch some increase in inventory , which would be helpful for all of us , if not certainly help with velocity of turnover .

So I think all of those things have me being pretty optimistic about rates under 7% in the not too distant future . There's variabilities around oil and safety and security in the Middle East and Ukraine that we just can't predict , but , left to its own devices , things look pretty optimistic for lower interest rates , so I feel good about that .

So it's interesting .

So , instead of I love the headline , mortgage rates double from 2.5 to 5 , versus mortgage rates remain lower than the past 30 years average .

It's all about perspective and I think one of the things we have to caution our buyers on is if I'm reading what you just described , which felt like that is a highly likely end or realistic absent an extraordinary event worldwide probably think about this is OK , I'm going to wait . I'm going to wait . Let's go back to the first part of our podcast .

Well , tomorrow is more expensive than today , and that's got to be the mantra when I sit with a buyer and they say I heard Q2 is going to be in the fives because over the course of year , ok , well , today it's 6.8 or 7.2 . Well , remember , the house was 300,000 , is now 315,000 or whatever that may be .

So I think you have to understand the holistic picture , particularly as we're out there coaching and advising and counseling .

But the likelihood and especially as we sit here in the Carolinas that we're going to have a better pricing situation I can find no data that supports that .

The data all supports an increase and maybe for a period of time before housing listing inventory catches up with buyer desire , it gets worse before it gets better , because there's going to be more buyers more interested at six than they were at seven or eight and the sellers are going to be , as they say in the south , fix them to make a move and they're

going to be thinking about it , but they just don't react as quick as buyers . So there's going to be this moment of imbalance that's going to drive some prices up as rates go down . We've now had the fourth consecutive week of mortgage applications increasing . That hasn't happened since February , which is when rates went down last time .

So it tells me we're in for a bit of a move and we should just be prepared that again , today is cheaper than tomorrow .

We talk about seasonality all the time and you and I , as we said together we got 75 years in the business . People always buy and sell in November , december , january , february .

Every year I've been in the business , there have been home sales , right , and I think we have to not allow people to default , to wait , default to an event , and I think it's about that constant connection and it goes back to your first couple of comments .

It's about , you know , really , really building and growing and expanding these relationships that we have and just continually , you know , building that trust because everybody needs a roof over their head . It's interesting . You you talked about I love that the , your , your friend , you know , helping consumers build wealth through the purchase of real estate .

That's like ingenious . By the way , I think about our , our signs up across our company , the why and the why of Howard Hannah mortgage and the why of the company and the why of master title , cardinal title allentate .

Insurance is to positively impact people's lives and I think that if that drives us , you know we're going to we're going to be in a really , really , really good place . So let's , let's talk a little bit and then we'll wrap it

up . I didn't even give Mark a heads up to my favorite part of the podcast , which is the end where we talk about it's rapid fire . I ask you five questions that have nothing to do with mortgage or real estate and they're not totally embarrassing . We did get laughing a little bit earlier , being the Philadelphia fans we are .

Is that the number one podcast in America today is Jason and Travis Kelsey , and I wrote down here it is called something heights , height .

The other thing that Mark did mention , which I think is really interesting , is when he arrived here in 1998 , mark and Kara came with one child . We did you want to just share what transpired , not actually what transpired , but what happened . How many children do you have ?

So some of those things that drive life , events that have you think about housing , are going around right in my house and have been over time .

So I am blessed with four daughters and a son that are , by the best I can tell , good kids , and kids would like to put into a house , and I guess I got a lot of passion around first time home buyers because I would love these kids to live near me Not necessarily with me , gary , but near me , and wouldn't that be nice .

My three adult children live here , so you know what it would have treat that is , and I know yours don't live far . I think you have one out in Colorado , but Not a bad place to visit . So yeah , so we've gone 40 minutes . It's been great , lots of great takeaways . You know , I think words matter .

We've been talking about this for about the last 18 months . You know , I had a conversation with somebody today , a guy , jason Smith , who's Smith marketing group up in Greensboro , and I had a podcast and he made a comment to me that really resonated . He said you know , I'm not a fan of scripts , I'm a fan of plan responses .

But I also have the good fortune of interviewing everybody and I often think about these phrases that if we make them part of our planned response , not a script a script is a script right and people know it .

But if it's my planned response and we think about things and so you know , the only other thing I'm going to end with , and I know you and I'm going to do that , and I know you and I are in lockstep and I know you really were groomed with this understanding back in your trident days is that when you are part of a mortgage company that is owned by a

real estate company , you have to earn the business , the loan officers and the mortgage company . You made a comment meet at the hotel room take on a Saturday afternoon with the relocating client right . You've got to take that call 24-7-365 . Now , clearly , we promote balance , but we've got to earn it more than the competitor .

The expectations are higher , not lower , and I think that when the mindset is our job is to earn your business , because we're better , we have better product we follow up we follow through , we're responsive . we got a loan problem . I can call Mark , I can call Jeff , I can call Duffy Hen , I can call Gary , I can call Pat .

Like our guys have access to us on a Saturday for that loan that needs to close noon on Monday and I would argue , a lot of companies you don't have that access and we do , but we also . It can't be an entitlement and I think one of the things that love about you and Jeff and Duffy is that's a mindset .

And our loan officers have to come to work every day to earn the business .

He talked about renovation program today and I know there's a lot of things on the drawing board as it relates to a variety of programs that we're gonna be able to lean into that they have in other markets , right , and I think those are huge opportunities for our company . So , anyway , rapid fire , are you ready ? Bring it .

I probably know some of the answers , but number one favorite food .

I think Bill Murray is super funny . I think Andy McDowell is really interesting and about seven years ago I sat next to Andy McDowell on a flight from Minneapolis to Charlotte and I got to tell her that that was my favorite movie and she thought I was totally folded . But absolutely true . So those are my two favorites .

Is there a binger that you need to recommend to everybody out here , Like you ? Gotta watch this .

Interestingly , my kids picked up on Seinfeld , which predates all of them , and something about universal things that are just funny even when they're 25 years old , which gave me a little bit of credibility , since I'm just the old guy . So I've liked Seinfeld .

I've started to watch a show called Peaky Blinders and I need to have the subtitles on because while they are technically speaking English , I can't understand a word that comes out of their mouth . So I read that . I love historical dramas , so I get a kick out of that . So those have been my two big ones of late .

That's a great one to put on this . It is . Yeah , if you want a 30 minute , I don't care whether it's season one or season eight , it is hilarious .

He calls it flow and it's had a really manufacturer flow and the zone in your life , just through understanding how the brain works , I would tell you , this book hurt my head . It is 72% smarter than I am , so I really had to read it intently , take some notes just for myself , go back and read it a second time and but man , it taught me a lot .

And it taught me about how to manage my day and life better , to make sure I put myself in the zone or recognize when I'm not in the zone and maybe do low pay off things or easy things when I'm not there . I know I'm not in the zone after eight o'clock at night . So it taught me a lot about just how to manage my day .

So that's probably been the most impactful book of late .

I love this one manage the fundamentals broken record for the last 14 months . We have to block and tackle better every day . If we block and tackle , maintain discipline , it's easy and then communicate . Think about

that for a minute . If you take nothing else from today , I'd rewind and listen to that . Number one get the book audible . Number two is if you just take those seven things and you just think about them and I do a I'm actually I will write about this now for Monday , because I think that resonates with planning 2024 .

If I do those things , if I get focused and I'm intentional in what I do , my last question for you One the one thing , one piece of advice that you can give everybody here that will improve their chances meeting and exceeding personal professional goals in 2024 .

And if I've just been scattered and looking at emails and trying to react , I certainly get a lot of work done , but I don't know that I got the big rocks taken care of . So be on purpose .

You were so good that I have a funny feeling you might take my role in 2024 . So , anyway , as always , we thank our listeners , because without them , there's not us , and we look forward to being with you .

We've got a couple , we've got projections from Pat and Gary , we've got the 12 days of Christmas from Realty Alliance CEO Craig Cheetham gives his view of the real estate world , and then , in 2024 , we'll get back to some of our high quality partners in all of our business lines to help all of our people .

Just be a little bit better tomorrow than we're today .