Welcome to Reality the King. It's me Carlos King, the King of Reality TV and one of the most sought after executive producers in reality television with over ten years of production experience. Twice a week on Reality with the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows and revisit unforgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about. Ladies, Gelamen and Day cause you know, we gotta be all inclusive, right.
I am here with my Libra brother, my sister, my friend, my love icon, legendary baby Acto Okay in the number one movie out right now on Netflix, starring with Academy Award winners and nominees Glenn Close, Monique and for Day and my best says give it up for the One the only no last name needed baby, Miss Lauren.
Hello, it's so good to see you. I miss you. Do you really? I really do miss you too?
No, you are I feel like we all started together.
Yes we did.
And what I want to say to you is I am very proud of you. Thank you and the reason why I'm proud of you. And we'll get to the episode later I'm proud of you because you had a dream and you never allowed it to waiver. What you are doing right now in this space with Lee Daniels. Yeah, it's something that I know through our personal conversations that you always wanted to do and the fact that you are living out your wildest dreams. I just want to say to you on the record, in front of the world.
I know firsthand the sacrifices you've made. I know firsthand how and we'll get into this too, how you've had some stressful, depressing moments in your life, right, yes, and you are faith based human and God is the reason why you were able to go through it, flow through it and come.
Out of it unscathed. So I just want to say, ron of applause, say talk This ain't easy, yea. And I have to say it was a dream or wasn't an idea that I didn't think would ever come to fruition are come to pass? Right? And how I even ended up, how we even got a chance to meet you know, it's because I abandoned the side of me that belonged to the arts, the side of me that belonged to the acting world, the singing world, the dance world,
all around arts. I abandoned that and I became a hairstylist and it was through my gift of being a hairstylist, which is also artistry, that led me to us meeting. But I have to say that it you know, it was nothing. I never thought that I would be where I am, and yes it has. I have had some extremely dark days. Because the more you know, the more you weigh. The more you learn, the more you weigh,
the more things weigh you down. The more the truth about society, the you know, the truth about this game, this industry, it will weigh you down. So when I say, the more you know and the more you learn, the more you weigh. But I wouldn't change any of it for the for the world. What I would do is is if I had if I had an idea and someone gave me a heads up, I would have better prepared.
I would have better prepared. But it's it's been it's been a journey so far, and I'm I'm still just scratching the surface, but it has definitely been a journey.
Well, let's let's get from the Let's start in the beginning. Because you are a preacher's kid, no, I.
Thought you I grew up in church. You grew up ink, But I grew up in church. Yes, I did talk to me about being a black being in church. Did and you also were in sports. I played football when I was little. You know, that was during that discovery era of my parents, right when they were discovering on how to be the best parent, when they saw the infeminite ways in which I had, you know, trying to turn me into that American dream child or that American
little boy. So they put me in football. And because I just kind of have an innate passion to excel and be the best at anything that I do, I was really good at it. I did not want to do it. I would have much rather been on the sidelines with the cheerleaders or you know, all the other drill team girls and stuff like that. But I did really well at playing football. I played football for the College Park Rams. Shout out to the College Park Rams. I was a linebacker, and the most fascinating thing was
seeing looking at all the boys. And I was really good. I was so good and so much so that the following season, the coach reached out to my father and was like, you know, we want them back as the quarterback, and I was like, I'm not doing that again. I don't give damn how good I was. I'm not doing that again. Now, y'all tried, and I'm still around here walking with a broken wrist, and I'm still walking around here walking with a twist and a broken hill and
I'm just comfortable with that. So the football trick didn't work, so I'm not gonna go do it again. How old were you when you did the football thing?
Oh?
I don't remember. I was so little. I was young. I was really young. I don't remember. I really don't. When did you know that you were gay? As far as I can remember, I knew that boys. Men just did something for me, you know what I mean? Yeah, But when I learned what love looks like that moment, it had nothing to do with a man or a woman. Love showed me everything that I needed to know to
get through life. So while my attractions and my desire for men still to this day is what I want because I am gay, but what I what I hope and I pray, especially for my straight community, is that they learn that love has nothing to do with gender. It has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Yes you will be same gender loving, but that doesn't mean that that type of love is different from heterosexual love, you
know what I mean? And I learned that when I found my love for black women, when I learned that we were inseparable, when I was became enamored by their beauty, which led me to getting into the beauty industry. It's
an indescribable feeling, you know. When I learned that black women were my safe haven, starting with my mother, my sister, grandmother, you name it, and just wanting to be around them, wanting to protect them, and that they protected my emotions and what I thought of myself, which I later discovered they were. Black women were the first allies for me. That's when I knew that love really has nothing to do with gender. And I want people to learn that.
Did your mother as a kid protect you from people who may have thought you were different?
Or were you bullied or teased or like what? I never? I have to be honest, I don't. I never got bullied. I don't think that I can remember. I never. I never got bullied. Yeah, people would, I've heard every slur you can think of, you know, but I never got bullied. I never got like beat up or I never got that because I was one that would fight and I knew how to thank God for my big family that I have, But I didn't. I didn't have that problem. I have to be honest with you, I did not
have that problem. While I know it exists and I know it was treacherous back in the day, it was terrible some some of some of the girls, some of us didn't make it out because of it. So and we still have a lot of work to do to erradical hate that. But that was not my experience. I think most of my trauma came from emotional and mental trauma. You know. That actually didn't happen until later again, when I became an aware individual. Because growing up, I always
had my talents that would be celebrated. I was always a good dancer. I was always the one that would dance at the school pep rallies or you know, I was always the one in high school I could do hair, so all the girls, they all lived for me. I had the baddest girls. That was always my closest friends. So the boys always loved me because they knew I came with the girls. I didn't have that I didn't have.
I didn't have a problem, and you know, it didn't come until later when I had this idea that I could take my rightful place and shape in society as I am, that I would later be shunned out of places because it wasn't fully accepted. And that's when I'm like, wait, what is this? You know? And then I had to go do some studying and I had to do some unlearning and some relearning or learn or whatever that I discovered where our discontents were in our culture as black people.
Yeah, I want to get into that because I first met you on the set of The Real Housewives of Atlanta in two thousand and eight. Right, I was living in New York City at the time, and you and I don't think we ever talked about this. So in New York City there were these this is like before social media. Yeah, there were these pictures floating around on blogs of you and Derek Jy in Atlanta Brain Hills.
And this is two thousand and eight, and it was a whole thing about like black men wearing heels like this phenomenon. Right, So here I am leaving New York City, I go to Atlanta, to do this reality show right.
And I get to Chara's home and I see you.
And all black and the highest of the high heels and me growing up in Detroit, Michigan, same experience as yours. I wasn't, you know, physically bullied or anything like that. Obviously lived in New York City. Everybody New York City is different, but really never really saw gay black men in hells. And I remember looking at you, like, that's the guy whose pictures are floating all around these blogs, and you were so this is the funny thing about it.
I'm like, he is the most beautiful, confident man I have ever seen. And we are around again.
This is two thousand and eight, the upper Eeschenol, black folks in Atlanta, white people, too, straight people, and you appeared to fit in like a glove. When did you decide for yourself when you talk about the space you wanted to be in this world? When did that decision come to being like I'm gonna make up and some heels and it's gonna be me.
You know what. It's weird because it wasn't like a decision. It wasn't like, Okay, this is the moment, this is what I I have to credit all of it to the beauty industry. I've been wearing heels or pumps or whatever, thigh haaboots, you name it since probably what two thousand and three, two thousand and four. Prior to that, I graduated from high school in two thousand and one. I'm not ashamed of my age. I graduated from high school
in two thousand and one. And even in high school, while I didn't wear heels, I wore like cowboy boots, but I would have like the heel of them extended. I would like, oh, ask some more, the padding of the soul, make the soul thicker, because I wanted it higher, because it did something so satisfying for me. It wasn't for attention, it was it was it was internal. It was what I felt, you know. And I was probably the only person in high school walking around like that.
And I mean I was wearing hair back then. By the time y'all met me, I had slightly toned it down because prior y'all was walking around with booty shorts. What ass out the cowboy slash cowgirl boots? You yeah, a juicy conture sweat suits with the timberlands, you know, yeah, very very baby fat about it, very baby fat about it. So by the time I could y'all met me a lot, I had come out of that era and I had gone into grown into like the Manolo Blonics and the
Captain Melandrinos of it all. The blouse says, you know. So there was never this this moment, this defining moment where I'm like, oh, I'm gonna wear makeup. It was just what I felt. It felt good when I started being I started in the salon as an assistant when I was fifteen years old. I worked downtown at the salon, and it just felt natural to go in, you know, put a little dust of powder on my face. Didn't
know what the hell I was doing. It was a disaster back then, but it felt I felt good about it, and I was celebrated for it because I was good at what I did. I was the best shampooor you know, I was the best assistant. Everyone left with a smile and felt good. So I was always celebrated just as I was. And so as I got older and I became my own, you know, became a hairstylist for myself, and I got into doing hair shows, and I remember in two thousand and five, which was a defining moment.
In two thousand and five, I did the Brono Brother Hair Battle Royale. I was a rookie at the time. I had been invited to compete because the person that was over that reached out to me she had seen me at the Monique's Hair Show movie premiere. I think it was called Monique's Hair Show or the Hair Show or some beauty shot premiere, some kind of movie premiere
center around hair and Monique was in it. And I had gone and I had this Gion Franco Foray labels Gion Franco Foray tennis skirt on with the matching boots and the top. And I had a set of cards that said that had my information on it and it said the card said she she ostentatiously stylish and deliberately chic, and it was a picture of my work on there.
And I got a phone call some week, maybe a week or two later from Lord bless Us Soul Mami bell Uh at the time, and she said, we saw you at the at the at the Hair Show premiere, and we want to invite you to compete. And the prestigious Hair Battle Royale, you will be the first of the youngest to ever do it. But the way she said, the way you came to that premiere, we know you were put on a show. And I went and Honey destroyed, destroyed the hair battle. I will forever say that I won.
I will. I will tell you, I will to my last day, I wist say I won. But they didn't let me win because I came out there and I had on some thigh high Gion Marco Gion Marco Lorenzi boots and they were thigh hide and I had the the high waist pants. It was over. Then I had one of my girlfriends on the stage and she was one of the girls Honey, and I mean the room went ballistic. They had never and mind you, Brunn a brother at the time, and they still aren't assuming the
very religious hair company they were. They're very faith based and at that time, what I was walking around representing and presenting was not acceptable. And that was one of the first times that I felt denied because of who I was. And so I will forever say that I won that battle. However, they just didn't give it to me. And that's okay because later they made their wrong right.
They've reached out to me several times to come and host and excuse me to come and judge the hair battles, and they've had to pay me triple what I would have won. So delay is not denial, but that going back, that was one of the first times that I ever felt like I was shunned because of how I chose to show up, you know. So I can't say that there is a defiance any moment. It's just I just walked into and honored and honored my destiny and my journey,
and that just so happened to come with makeup. It just so happened to come with the heels. It just don't happened to come with the blouse or skirt, you know. And here we are, decades later, and I still extract from that person that I was then, not so much as now because I like being a little more comfortable now. I'm not trying to walk around with you know, A excuse this term, but it is what it is. It's
called a gaff. A gaf is like a little thing that, you know, keep you tucked and right in place, so you ain't riding here bulging all over the place. I don't want to walk around all that stuff on no more. I don't feel like my feet hurting no more. I don't feel like none of it no more. So I want to do it if it colls for that AKA, if I'm working, yes, you know, yeah, Okay.
So the thing is is, back then, when I came to Atlanta in two thousand and eight, I was.
Impressed and.
So like enamored with Atlanta in the social scene. You know, Atlanta now is different, you know, I think it's very different. In two thousand and eight, I felt like baby Atlanta was the place to be. Talk to me about because me and Takara spoke about New York City in the very amazing decade of two thousand through twenty ten, and now New York at the same anymore.
Talk me through what that era was like in Atlanta.
I just I just remember these beautiful, rich, wealthy, successful black people who were inter mingling with white society on this same level. And you fit like a glove. You are not a sore thumb. You know, we were following these housewives, right, but you had something What was it about Atlanta at that time where it was like this is like nothing we've ever seen.
I'm gonna tell you what makes Atlanta so magical, and it has nothing to do with us, but it has everything to do with our civil rights heroes and ancestors. When you look at where black people at large has been able to do become doctors, become lawyers, become CEOs, become music executives, become film directors, you name it, it is because of the work of our civil rights heroes, and the civil rights era started in Atlanta, Georgia. This
is the birthplace of the civil rights movement. By way of doctor King, by way of Bayard Rustin, who was an openly black gay man. They worked with their white counterparts to create change. They work with each other, whether they are straight, and I think what we are living right now is their wildest dream and I don't think people even realize that. That is what makes Atlanta so magical, the fact that you can walk around and you can take inventory of the people that are in this amazing city.
Some are black and gay, extremely successful, living on the same street as the governor, building homes around the corner from the Governor. You see black women living the same way their white counterparts, you know, live, and black men doing their things. That is what the dream was and it got started right here. And I think that is what people. That is what you see, that is what you get. We have our own type of love language
here in Atlanta. We say what we want when we get ready, and we're unbothered by how someone feels about it. Because again, when Doctor King, when Bayard, when Andy Young, when John Lewis, when those people spoke and they spoke the truth, they didn't care what nobody thought. They spoke and did and said what needed to be said and what needed to be done. And that is what makes it magical. That is what you felt in two thousand and eight when you came here.
When Bravo came to do this reality show. Did you think it would be the big phenomena it is today?
Hell no, I didn't know.
No.
First of all, none of us knew. None of us knew what was happening. Schara and I were friends. Schara reached out to me one day and she said, you know, I always have to talk like I can't help it. No, I love you. Something that happens, I just I love her. You mock the girls and out to me. Now, mind you. She might not have even been around anybody. But because SCHARAA and Scharay, she always is going to make sure no one hears her. She probably wasn't even around anybody,
but about imagining that. The conversation, if I can visualize her, when she called me, it was this, hey, so uh ah, they're doing the show real you have seen Real Housewives of Orange County. So yeah, so they're trying to do something like that here. They want like me needed kim uh at lista, so they I gotta have it, want to have people around me. I was thinking you could come on there with me and you know, maybe you could do my hair something like that. I said, okay, I.
Said, okay, that was good if you not straight personally, you note that he nailed it.
Continue So I'm like, okay, I didn't think nothing of it. I'm like, okay, so let me do your hair on the show. They're gonna record you. Were you her regular hairstylist at that time, I was not. We were just good friends. I Charia and I met. I used to shop in her store that she had here called Bella Azul and it was a really nice boutique, high end boutique, and she sold she had the stuff in there. Honey. She had the things, Chloe. I mean, she had the stuff in there. And I would go in there and
I because you know, I had coins. I was dating somebody that had coins back then. So I would go in there. I would baby, I would drop bags. And I didn't learn until later she thought that I was a stylist, that I was shopping for somebody until one day I asked for a dressing room and she and she said, are you about drine his own? I said yeah, she said, oh shit, okay. So that's that is what's what sparked the magic and what became later a really good,
genuine friendship. And we started going out and hanging out. We would go to Sweet Lounge all the time, and Nini would call because she introduced me to Nini. This is before Housewolives was even a thought. She would introduce me to Nini. I would see Kim Zosiac and Niemas. She would go on Nimas and shut the store completely down. She was that, you know, Charai was that girl. The girls were the girls, and it's no shape. The girls
were the girls. And you know that's how I I That's how Shara and I became friends and then when they reached out to her about the show, she asked me to come on the show with her and do her hair. I'm like, okay, yeah, cool, because she was like, I need new hairstylus anyway, And so that's that's how that happened. And you know, I didn't know what I was doing. I don't think any of us knew what we were doing, and unbeknownst to me, I became a fan favorite. What I didn't know was the business side.
I didn't know the business. So what the first two or maybe even three seasons, I don't know. I didn't get paid a dime. I didn't know what the hell was going. I didn't have an attorney, I didn't have a manager. I didn't know. I didn't know anything, you know, until I later discovered. I'm like, okay, wait a minute, So this person on here they getting paid, and I kind of heard around town what the people was getting paid.
I'm like, well, wait a minute, nah.
So anyway, that's how that happened. And yeah, now you start getting paid season four, I think so, and then that was pennies as well. Again, I didn't know any better. Did you know how much we're getting paid season four. Oh it m it was probably like an It was probably like enough for a pair of shoes for me, you know. And I think the reason why I didn't trip at first is because I was an extremely successful and well sought after hairstylist. So I mean, I was
clearing six figures back then as a hairstylist. So I'm just like, okay, this is But then when it started to affect my schedule at the salon and you know all that kind of stuff, I'm like, I then, wait a minute, now, now this is making most sense for Charae. It's making a lot of sense for the Niinnes and the the Shawn Snows and the Kim Zosi, but this ain't really making that much sense for me, huh. You know.
So then that's when you know, I kind of sought guidance and I got someone to kind of help me with asking for some type of contractual agreement in exchange for payment. And so I first just accepted what was what was given to me, and then I later learned that there were people also a part of the show that were on my same level, what they classify as
B characters, that was getting significantly more than me. And I did not understand that, but you know it it it ended up turning out decent because because of the fans and the people that appreciated me and liked me, they you know, that led me to a spin off, which was Fashion Queens, and and and Andy Cohen reached out and offer me Fashion Queens, and so I felt
like I was somewhat vindicated there. I felt like I was somewhat vindicated there, but it was still I still developed a lot of I guess PTSD behind again because I felt like because of who I was, and when you take account to I guess society and where we all fall on the human spectrum and you look at a black queer, super effeminate gay man, you know, I do think that there are a lot of questions as to what the value is and why would we really take care of this person and change this person's life
the way we're doing these straight people. That is what I later discovered, And so that was very painful and I ended up getting you know, I somewhat got out of it, you know, mentally, but you know, it came back a couple of times, and then you know, later on with the show, when I decided to part ways with the show. You know that that definitely played a
factor in it. And then a lot of the things that I was seeing that I just did not like, you know, in particular, and I will always mention this when when Kenya's friend Brandon came on the show and he had that big physical altercation. I did not appreciate the way that that was handled. I did not appreciate it. And one thing that I am absolutely in love with and I am crazy about that is my community, the black LGBTQ community, as well as the black community, the
black straight community. I did not like the way that that was handled and I didn't appreciate it, and I expressed that concern with the powers that be, and they asked me several times to you know, come back, reconsider, and I honestly I had mentally and spiritually moved on and I just didn't see. I didn't see what other purpose I could serve and what other purpose it could serve me, and so and so I left. Yeah, and I hated I hated it because I love you know,
Kenya's my sister, that's my big sister. I love Marlowe, I love Charae is because of charade that people even noticed me. She brought me on the show, but I hated the direction that it was. It stopped being fun and it stopped being funny for me, and I didn't appreciate.
That you made a comment publicly in the past when some of the world, you know, you talk about the branded thing. It's when Brandon Apollo got to the altercation. Brandon had on risks of pajamas and there were these tons of names being on his direction, you.
Know girl, you know your whatever, And a lot of.
The audience in the gay community felt like, wait, are we witnessing some sort of.
Homophobia in this.
Are some of you women making fun of him and his sexuality? And they just started questioning, like, y'all love the gay boys, but are your allies for the gay boys? It's a difference. A lot of people felt that way. Did you feel that some of the cast members.
Were not.
The gay allies that they presented they presented themselves to be.
I'm gonna here's the thing. A lot of people don't really know what it means to be an ally. I don't think some of the cast members knew that they weren't an ally or that they were you know. I won't say that they are homophobic. That I won't say. What I do know is, you know, we will perish for the lack of knowledge. Right. What I do know is that if you're not taught, and if you're not educated on what to say, what not to say, what's offensive and what's not offensive, you will offend. And I
think that is what happened in that moment. The gripe that I have is that there wasn't a moment after that to give it space to be a teachable moment for anybody. And that was my biggest gripe. That was my biggest gripe. I think what I want people to understand about when you say, when people loosely say that they're allies, it's not enough to be an ally without being an accomplice, you know, be an agent of change.
Stand in on my have when you're in rooms and when you're in spaces where we are still very undervalued, where your value have might have might have increased in that space, but we're we are still standing here very undervalue. So if your value has appreciated, standing the gap, standing the gap, and I think that is what was missing. Got it?
When you go back to the show and you're just there. Sar recalled you. You're like, okay, I'll do what I gotta do whatever, and the show became a huge hit.
Were you.
Surprised by the instant success of Ninni Leeks, who said on my podcast she always when she first entered this space amongst these women, she felt she was the underdog based on the socio economic status of some of her becast Were you surprised and were some of the other girls to you surprised that the breakout star became Niini Leaks?
No, I wasn't surprised. First of all, the underdogs always win, okay. And let me say this, I've said this a million times to people. When you go back to season one, I don't know if it was episode one or not. What started reality TV or or or what changed the trajectory of reality TV and what we know of today. It started from when Charie left Nini's name off the list episode one. Bottom line, that is what fueled the drama. That is when that thing called, oh we gotta have drama,
we gotta have a storyline. That was the defining moment. And so here is the note when you talk about the underdogs always win. It's not a bad thing always to not have your name on the list. Because she became the first icon out of that franchise. Now, many became iconic afterwards. But Lonethi Aliks and it is no shade, is iconic. In the reality TV show World, she is iconic. Chara is legendary, she is iconic. Kenya Moore is legendary, iconic,
She's been an icon. Marlow Hampton household name, Candy's already been legendary. But when you talk about the one that they didn't see coming, it's Ninny Leaks and it's no shade. Now, she by charade will always be the way. Yes, Marlowehampton will always be a that can slay. Kenya Moore is Kenya Moore. You can't get her. You're not gonna get her. Forget about it. It's never happened. It's never happened. Nine
leeks did what needed to be done. And then I'm always mother And you know that because you know what the girl you you know, you know I was the one behind the scenes giving girls say this girl, say that did do this child. We are just getting started.
This is reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King, Let's get back into the show.
Let's have a real conversation.
I know for a fact that some of these reads you gave the girls, you gave the girls to read to saying her interviews.
I know for a fact you coached some of these girls. Come here, go ahead, and.
I remember, I'm not gonna say to day unless you want to. Okay, let's see averrale bras were in the same person. I remember being on set one day and it was two housewives in the same room and you looked at one and said, and she follows suit read and we had a good seed. I you were the one this this is public and she and she and she admitted this one. You're the one who told Kenya to get a problem. You taught that the fan that
Kenya has season five reunion. Not only did you tell her to do that, to to do the fan, you taught her how to pop it, pop it.
You taught her what was it like?
Did you have like less than you say, come over and you like did you Was it really a teaching moment with the fan?
You know? I I to think about the key ingredient what we now know in all reality TV. You can't have good reality TV without having shade, right and from my world, when you talk about ballroom, when you talk about the black LGBTQ community, we gave the recipe, We created the recipe. We knew what popping a fan on somebody meant, you know. We knew how to read without using a lot of words. We knew how to read
and shade without saying a word. You know. And to your point, when it's your girlfriend, when it is your sister, you want them to be the best. And when you talk about being competitive, because that's what it is, it's all the compet It's a big competition on them shows. It's a big competition. You want your girl and wind, you want your best to win, honey, And so you give them the tools, you give them the knowledge, and you tell them to go. Now. I don't do that
anymore because it backfired. When I look at I said, well that wait a minute. Back here, I'm telling you do this and them holes want to give me five dollars and y'all getting what? Oh? No, bye, No, ma'am.
Did you feel like sometimes these girls should have given you something extra?
No, it's not that. No, I'm not going to put that on them. Okay, I'm not gonna put that on them. No, no, no, I wouldn't do that, no mm hmm.
But for people to know that you were an engine because one they always say to people. And this is just me being honest. When you look at the biggest divas in the world, whether a singer, an actress, or reality star, and this is no shade, and you stop me if I'm wrong. Oftentimes there is a gay man it is who is ushering them to greatness with the confidence and the tool that they need in order to become the stars that they are.
It's a very reciprocated relationship, right when you talk about the divas of the world, when you talk about the legendary girls, you know, whether the world knows them or if they're just legendary to you, you give them your all because going back to what I said, when you talk about black women, they were some of our first allies. They were some of the first ones to say we see you. And so it's a give and it's a take.
It's a reciprocated relationship. And so I think we innately want to see each other win and want to see each other be the best versions of ourselves that we can be. When I decided to leave the show, Kenya was very support it. She didn't want me to, of course, but she was very supportive and she understood that is what it means to me to say I see you, I feel you, and I understand. It wasn't much she could do about it. She not running network, she's not
over the budget or anything like that. You understand what I'm saying. But just the fact that she understood that meant a lot to me. And she wasn't selfish in saying, oh, no, I need you to stay because I need this or I need no. She supported me.
Yeah, you referred Marlon Hampton to the show, Yes, why?
But she deserved to be on there. During that time in Atlanta, I knew what I knew what you all wanted esthetically, I knew what you all wanted in terms of all the material stuff, what you all wanted for a housewife. And it's no shade. At that time, Marlowe would run circles around all all the girls, and she
deserved to be on there. What I hate is that Marlowe had such a very deep story in her personal life and her personal journey that I feel like that was never shown or highlighted in its best light because there was a lot too, and a lot behind the labels. It was a lot behind the cars. It was a lot behind that that I know personally that I feel like the viewers didn't get a chance to see. Now the drama between the girls, I understand all of that. You know, they they all slay each other, they are
and I never got in between any of that. I would if I if I tell one or I'm not having this conversation about Kenya or Keny, I'm not having this conversation about Marlowe, or I'm not having this conversation by charade with you and vice versa, I wouldn't do it. That is what That is where I drew the line. But Marlowe deserved to be there, and I do feel like she added a lot to the show when she
came on. She hard headed as hell because she wouldn't let me, She would not let me mentor her the way that I like to, so she wouldn't have run at all them problems on there. But nevertheless, I thought she was a great addition at in the beginning. Were you upset when she dropped the f bom. I was surprised. So let me say that was a that was a part of a Marlowe that was new to me. That was a part that I had never heard her her
say that. But what I appreciated was that she although she lied about it at first, that which was a key And I honestly think the only reason why she lied about it at first was to not give Charay what she wanted. I don't think I had anything to do with me. I don't think I had anything to do with the culture, with the black gay culture. I don't think that. But what I appreciated is that she set still and listened to the lesson to be learned from it, and she apologized, and that's all it takes.
I don't expect you to know, Ane, I don't expect everybody to be politically correct or to know what's appropriation or what's appropriated, or what you should and should not know. Because we're all this ship comes up new every month, every year, is something new that you can and can not say, so we will forever evolve when it comes to being culturally and socially sensitive and accurate. So I appreciate when someone is willing to say Okay, Now where
did I go wrong? Because this is all I knew my whole life, so I'd never been told that that was wrong. So tell me. And when you do that to me, that shows contrition, That shows that you know you are genuinely wanting to learn and genuinely wanting to build a stronger bridge.
Yeah, season four, you were emerging as a top B character on that on that season, so much so that Candy wrote a song called Closet Freak that to this day, I play it.
I Closet Freak.
I mean, it's an amazing song and your vocals, I mean I had no idea you can sing like that. It was the range for me, you know, like it was it was the The song became.
Bigger and bigger and bigger.
Yeah, and we all loved it, but we also saw that it was never released commercially right, And there were conversations about, you know, you didn't feel the deal was right that Candy was presenting to you. What happened to the point where you had this amazing song, it was featured on the show.
And you two never worked again. It was just it was it was business. I didn't I didn't like the deal. It was a three sixty deal that she offered Ken offered with her entertainment company, Candy Code Entertainment. I didn't like it because when I when I read up and learned about three sixty deals. Three sixty deals are usually given to artists that are created, in my opinion, that are created, meaning you aid and establish their image, their name,
their sound, all of that. Right, So yes, you give, you give the label or whatever, a percentage of every single thing that you have. Now, for me, I felt like I was already becoming somewhat of a household name. People you know, knew me, they knew who Miss Lawrence was. The image was already established, the sound was already kind of established, and so I I didn't feel like it was worth entering into a three sixty deal. And so
for that, it just didn't work out. And it's unfortunate because it was unfortunate because it was a great song and people's to this day still talk about Closet Free. Candy is immensely talented, you know, that's her world that she knows what to do in it. So it was just I wasn't willing to be contractually tied down in that way to Candy coated entertainment. As you could probably see, I've not missed out on much. You're doing good, Yeah, no, you are.
And what was interesting is even when you left Housewives, it was around a time where you Derrek Jy and Mother of our Mother, Debby Smith, had this amazing halfower. I like to call it a comedy show that was that half fashion conversation because you three had such great chemistry. It was called Fashion Queen, Yes right, and it was a ratings hit.
The ratings were good through the roof. The show was.
Good and everything appeared to be going in the right direction.
But then it got canceled out the blue. Why did Fashion Queens get canceled? And the ratings were so solid, We've never been given a real explanation as to why. And here's a note to all of our Fashion Queens fans and supporters. You know, everybody said, oh Andy Cohen, I was not Andy Cohen. I think it was like beyond Bravo and beyond obviously Andy Cohen. I think it was.
You know, that was during the time when we lost Joan Rivers the Icon and you know her show was Fashion Police, and you know our shows were similar in terms of content, and I I don't know this for sure, but I can't help but think that it has something to do with needing our audience, because you know, they Fashion Police had lost John Rivers and which was a huge chunk of the Fashion Police and I and this is just me speculating. I'm must because it just didn't
make sense to any of us. I think they might have needed our audience. Yeah, so I'm not saying that is what happened, but that is just what I felt of what we felt, because it didn't add up. Fashion Queens was a number one show coming on at eleven thirty PM on a Sunday night, which is unheard of to do the numbers that we did. So yeah, it was it was a little engine that could it and it did and it did. But you know, I saw a water underbridge. Everything thing is as it should be.
Bevy was able to go on and do incredible stuff work on multiple shows. She's also now an actress. You know, I became an actor thanks to Lee Daniels, who was a fan of Fashion Queens, who noticed me from Fashion Queens. And you know, Derek Jay is doing his thing making all the money in the world, you know, working behind the scenes on shows. So I think everything is as it should be, and everything served its purpose while we
miss it. While that was the very first show that I ever was a part of where the production company shouts out to embassy row. That showed me how I should be treated as talent. That really made me feel appreciated. You know, that is an that is an experience that will forever be attached to my heart and unforgettable.
When you look at the Real Housewives of Atlanta today, what do you think of the show now in terms of what has become.
I've watched, I watched last season. I enjoyed it. I'm sorry, I enjoyed last season. I'm gonna be honest. I think a lot of the girls get in a lot of the girl's way. I think if everybody can go back to the original formula and the original mindset, I think if everybody will stop trying to stifle other people's paychecks and other people's jobs, I think you would probably have the exact same cast that you had from the beginning,
or from that golden era of housewives. You know, I think everybody in their own right became stars, and I don't know who, I don't know what organization. I don't know what entity, but somewhere, somehow, the powers that be gave a lot of the girls this false sense of entitlement that some of them could dictate who gets to be what and do what. And I think that's where it feels short. I think that's where it feels short.
I think people became extremely celebrity driven and so celebrated by the fans that they no longer wanted to be seen as the person that could be read. That they no longer wanted to be seen as the person that could possibly get trampled on, you know, And so they have this urgency to stand up and vindicate themselves, but not on film, to the networks, to get whatever person did whatever taken out. And it's all derived from ego.
And it's clear as day when I watched the show now, while I still enjoyed it last season, yeah, I wish everyone could have a moment and get recentered and go make your fucking money. Go make your coin. It's that simple. I've heard from other people in other reality show spaces how much money they make and I'm like what, And I know what the girls was making on House, and I'm like, can y'all talking about because this person said, if you don't shut up and get your coin, get
your coin. Some people on them other shows they would they would love to be in the in those seats and to just let it go like that. I'm like, oh my god, are you serious. And they're all stronger with each other. But the problem I think came in when they thought they were becoming weaker because one seemed to be stronger. That's all a false perception. They were all very strong and super strong together. What happened to what you just said?
Season one, episode one, Charae admitted on my podcast she purposefully left Nini's off the list. She said, they wanted her to be at my house. I said, I know what y'all producers want. That's my house and it's gonna happen. I'm going to purposefully leave her name off the list.
She did it on purpose.
Nini Leags had no idea, gave a great scene that entire season one was Charai versus Meedi because they both lived in the reality of this is my life. I'm gonna do that and it made for great television and the rest is history. So I cannot agree with you more. There was a time, though Lawrence, where you were approached to be a housewife of Atlanta, you were approached to have a peach.
What happened, I do not know. I went through a couple of interviews. Maybe we never got around to like filming, but I remember some of the producers or scouts whatever came looked at my place, my condo. They already knew I was successful. Now. What I was told when it got back to the higher higher ups was that they were not ready to go in that direction. That was
what I was told. And I think that was one of the things that they tried, because I think they could kind of sense that I was kind of drifting away, and I really, I really, I can't think of who it was that saw fit for me to be like the first openly gay individual to have to be a peace holder. But they advocated hard, and when it got to the higher ups, I was told that they were told they weren't really ready to go in that direction
just yet. Yeah, And that was another thing that made me be like, Okay, there's really nothing else else here for me to do. You ain't ever giving me no peach. I ain't getting there. One of them multimillion dollar pay checks. You know, did y'all give the girls? Not pumping y'all teas, But it is what it is. I know you ain't want to go give me that shit. So I'm like, well, honey, I'm gonna take these five dollars y'all and gave me thus far, and I'm gonna go in and make it
do what it do, you know. And so yeah, when you.
Left the show and then Fashion Queens got canceled, did you go through a dark period in your life?
I did not even have time. As soon as Fashion Queens was canceled, I was already in the Lee Daniels network. So right after Fashion Queens that last the third season, I got invited to come on to Empire, and I shot a couple of episodes of Empire. And right after Empire, Lee was in the process of developing and creating the show Star that became also a hit on Fox, and this time I was a series regular. He created this character, Miss Bruce for me, and so I went right into that.
So I was I was heartbroken because I I loved Fashion Queens. I mean it was it was a joy to go to work every week and be with Bevy and Derek and the whole Embassy Row family, you know, Deirdrew Connelly and you know, it was it was a joy, and so I was very heartbroken. It felt like a breakup, like a bad breakup, although it wasn't a bad breakup. But I felt like that just left me. That's how
I thought he left me. That's how I felt. But I didn't have too much time to weep because I went straight into into my acting career, which is is funny because that was my original one of my original passions when I was younger. Again, like I said, from the beginning, being a part of the arts. And so my biggest note to people is nurture the gifts that you've been given, give it one hundred and ten percent
and allow that to make room. And if it had it not been for the beauty industry, me becoming Charaise hairstylist, you know, excuse me, me becoming Charaise hairstylist, you know, tracking through the Housewolves of Atlanta days to fashion queens, I wouldn't have gotten noticed by one of the most important and most incredible filmmakers that we know today, which is Lee Daniels, and I wouldn't be sitting here as an actor now, you know, talking about my latest project,
The Deliverance. How has Lee Daniels changed your life?
Like talk to me about because you know, one thing that I love about you is the fact that you give credit where credit is due. And I feel like there's something that happened along the way with some celebrities. They no longer want to give the profit of the person who gave them the opportunity.
And it's very dangerous. That's very dangerous to do right because none of our victories happened solely because of us. Somebody had to be put in place. There was a vessel somewhere that God said, I need you to go do this on my behalf for this person. So who am I to not say ay, to not give it all counted, all joy and give God the glory and to recognize those that He used to bring the glory. I can't. I cannot do that in good consciousness. That's
that is I'm not I'm not built like that. Lee Daniels. You know, he was in charge of opening a portal for me that I did not think was possible. I did not think that I would ever be able to utilize my gift as an actor, you know, or any of it. You know. I didn't think that I would be on the same screen as powerhouse vets in the industry, from Queen Latifah to Glenn Close, to Monique to Patty LaBelle, to Gladys Knight to Benjamin Brad Andrew Day, who's a
real gem. The relationships that I have created because of Lee Daniels that are life lasting, My relationships with my brother Tyler Williams, who was also on the United States Versus Billie Holiday with Me, Davine and Joy Randolph, you know, you name it. I wouldn't have any of this had it not been for Lee Daniels, who saw my potential, who saw and recognized my gifts, and who told God, yes, I got them. And I will forever be grateful. I am now at a point where I am now learning
the business side of this side of the industry. So it's interesting, but it is it is still very rewarding. It's more than what the guy was making on Housewives, on Fashion Queens, I'll tell you that much.
But the thing, you know, what's so funny is it warms my spirit when I see you at the award shows. Yeah, when I see on the red carpet, because, like I said, you and I have to have personal conversations, and I know there's just been moments where you're trying to figure things out, like we're all trying to do today, right. So to see that you're so successful in a genre that is just so that you're you're really good, like you're really you're a really good actor. I mean the Deliverance,
I mean number one movie on Netflix. The movie is everything. Your comedy Chops is everything, your acting ability is everything.
And even the fact that you know you know how to like roll some dice. So do you really know how to roll dice? I have no idea. I had to like study, I had to.
Do you have to study how to So wait, so I don't my legs?
So do you like do you like I don't play dice? Like ginger and casino? Like? How what did you the way you talk Kenya how to like do the fan to roll dice? So you know you you go in for me. When I read the script and learned that, okay, Asia is playing dice or gambling with the kids, I'm like, okay, now let me go on YouTube and see, how do you do that? You know what I'm saying. You know, I have played scraps? Is it s craps? Is it craps? Craps? Craps?
I have played Okay, I have played crap. It's craps. It's craps, It's craps. I have played craps for so I know a little bit, right, But I wanted to make sure that it was real. So I went and studied. I wanted to study what does that look like? I want to study the terminology, you know? But what I you know, what's genius and what's what's so good about Lee? Lee gives you space to show up as yourself first, right,
and then he strips you. It's important that you show up as yourself first because you need to find yourself in the character. Then you're stripped, you get stripped, and then you become this new character with yourself in it, you know. And I think that's what makes Lee so so genius. And I think that's why he gets the best work out of artists and out of actors. You just you show up, and you know, I think it's it helps with your working relationship as well, because when
you show up as yourself to your director. They get to learn and know who you are, which opens the door for them to show you who they are. And then you develop that level of trust. And when you trust your director, that's when that's when the magic happens. When Lee says do something, you just do it. I have to tell this story. When I was shooting Billie Holliday, there was a scene. It did not make the movie for fortunately, but there was a scene where he told me to I had to I was eating I had
to be eating something. And it was well over midnight when we were shooting, so everything was closed. He originally wanted me to be eating fried chicken, but they couldn't get fried chicken anywhere. He insisted, but they was like, okay, there's no fried chicken anywhere. So he's like, okay, he needs to be eating something. He needs, Okay, give him banana. Eat the banana. So they bring me a banana and I'm eating the banana. He comes over and he whispers in my ear. He said, I need you to eat
this banana with urgency. You know what I mean. I need you to eat it with urgency. And I looked at Tyler because my brother Tyler was right there. I said, what the don't you eat a banana? Word? Now, I am skillful a kind of you eat a banana with urgency. So Tyler like, Chad, just do it. Yeah, because we had time to figure out shit out is just just just eat it. So baby, I had took de banana and I had I had a debonaam And after we finished the scene, lisaid, come here, I want to show
you something. And I went to the monitor and the way that it translated was magic. I was like, you would never think from that note that you're going to get that performance. That's what makes them the icon. That's why he breeds Oscar winners and Golden Globe winners, that's why to go inside his head, which I don't think anybody will be able to do, it's indescribable. It's indescribable. Oh my god, say this is Glenn J.
Blange is what the social media girls are calling her now. I mean, I mean, what was that like to work with Glenn clothes and her black scent and the wigs. I mean, listen, I didn't know when I learned that I was gonna be in a scene with her, because I shot several scenes. But you know, cutting room Florida Da Da, and I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be a scene with Glenn.
I was like, oh my god, what to expect. You know, this is you know, this is the krim de la Cruseel Honey. When I say the most beautiful, humble down the earth, I mean person that you can think of. I mean it's no extra bells and whistles, which fascinates me because here's this woman who is one of the most decorated women in Hollywood, who doesn't require all of that.
And then you meet a reality star and us they got ten assistants, and I just I think it is a key and I'm not reading them, but I think it's fascinating.
No, no read them, because no read read them because I listen. I always tell the girls, and my girls
are the reality girls. I always tell them, like, this is not going to end well for you, because to have an ego of this magnitude and this diva quality of being late, showing them when you feel like it, disrespecting the crew, talking to the producers any kind of way, shading your producers on social media because you don't like the way the episode, or whatever the case may be going against everybody around you.
That's not going to end well for you.
So when you have someone like Glenn Close, who, like you said, is one of the most decorated women in the world, who shows up, does her job and goes home and doesn't require a lot.
And is a team player, you know, wants the best for the scene, wants the best for everybody in the scene. On the on the during the birthday party and we were singing Happy Birthday. What they didn't show is that we went into the black version of Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday to you, and Glenn was like, hey, can you help me out, Like, how does it go? Can you teach it to me? Really quick? I got to teach Glenn Close how to do the black version of Happy Birthday,
and honey, she did it. Oh, I bet she did. She did it. You know they didn't that part didn't make the cut, but she did it. And I mean, you know, just and just down to her wanting to make sure that she got you know, some of our sound right, you know the diction, you know, Glenn Close asking me, and I'm just like wow. So it's those opportunities that I've been afforded that I wouldn't. It's priceless. It's priceless. Yeah, So what's next for you? Well, what's
next for miss Lawrence? Well, there was a show on the horizon, like a TV show. There's a scripted drama TV show on the horizon. I don't know if I can talk too too much about it, but it's been in the work for maybe three four years now, so we are extremely close to starting on a big network. I will I think this time. I think this time, I'm gonna be number one on the call. She number one the call show I'm starting in. This will be the star if it is a Lead Daniel's production, Lee
Daniels production. I'm super super excited about it. I can't tell you this is that I will be a detective. I will be a detective. Yeah, so my work is cut out for me. So I got to be running, I gotta be jumping, chasing after I gotta do all that and I am so ready. Don't make me cry. Yeah, I'm I'm super excited about that. So that is what is in the near future. That's what's next. You deserve all this plus more. You really you you, you have never changed.
You are the same missus Lawrence since two thousand and eight that they have met you. You haven't allowed this fame to come to your head. You went to Charay's fashion show to support her because you knew what a big deal that was for Charae even recently hasn't obviously this season hasn't, this upcoming season has not aired. But obviously Kenya Moore had a hair showing her salon and
you were, you know, there. What can you say to the world about how Kenya is doing because you were actually there when that whole thing went down.
You know what's funny, I wasn't there when that happened. I was there. I did the part Kenya asked me to do, which was judge a hair show with Cynthia was there and I left right afterwards. Now, everything that happened at I was like, what happened? I couldn't believe all this. I didn't know. I was like, well, I didn't see none of that, So I don't know what y'all talking about. But yeah, I don't know. And I talked to Kenya maybe maybe a month after that happened.
King is good, Kenya is good. I learned that the rumors were not true that she wasn't fired, that she wasn't suspended. They, to my understanding, had just paused her part of our side of the production. That's That's pretty much all that I know. Do I think it's fair? No, I don't, because the show was built off of the shadiest and nastiest drama and shade and reading you could
possibly think of. So I was very surprised and taken back that, you know, she had to suffer in whatever way because of what transpired and what is what exactly transpired. I have no idea the severity of whatever the repercussions were. I have no idea, but just based on what I've read, I'm like, oh, that's not fair if what they're saying is true. And what I what I love about Kenya. When she and I talked, we spend more time about her wanting to know if I'm okay and how things
are going with me. So we talked very briefly about the show. We talk about Brooklyn, you know, stuff like that. So it But to answer your question, I think Kenya is doing I think she's doing quite well. Yeah, I think Kenya has surpassed what her original goal was in terms of being a part of Housewives of Atlanta. I don't think she intended to stay this long. So I think she's doing well. You know, and sometimes, you know, when things get shaken up, it is time to go
on and figure out what's next. And sometimes if you don't do it, the universe will make you or God will make you. Baby.
Yes, and then you have to accept the reality of the situation. Yeah, don't feel bad for yourself. And no, this is this is true. You're living proof of it. So in my in terms of God will stop an opportunity for you because there.
We will block it to bless it. Oh, He'll block it to bless it. He will block it to bless it. No, I received that. I received that. Are you in love? Are you dating? Oh? I mean I have a very strong situationship. What does that mean? That's all I say. I have a very strong situationship.
How long has this strong situationship been in effect?
A long time? That's all I can say. Yeah, I'm not going into that next question. No, I'm just saying, but you are happy? I am. I'm comfortable. Yeah, I'm comfortable. Look at you. You vision it for the water. Okay, I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable, no complaints. I don't have any complaints. I'm not I am. I am still. I am still driven and excited about where I'm going and what I know has been promised to me, and so I don't
want to be too too distracted. So I think where I am in my situation is perfect.
And as a fellow Libra, I could not agree with you more same obviously very private people. The relationship part. I just think that's just something that is over there and what it does not that you need my advice because you don't, because you're very wise for your young age. But I would say keep it that way and it has worked out for you. I have known this man since two thousand and eight. I have never seen him on a date. I have never seen I have never ever ever.
He's you know, So I love it about you.
You really keep that separate and that's amazing.
You know. Historically speaking, you know this from all your girls on the show. Every time a couple is introduced by it is not long lived on them shows, and it's a rap. Keep that shit to yourself, now, I get, And like when you talk about reality shows, that's a part of it. They want to know who your significant others,
so that's a part of it. So I honestly don't even have any advice for people that are going into reality shows and you know, you know, getting match made and all that kind of stuff, because I don't know what it would take to keep that type of unionship, our relationship or courtship or whatever together in the face of the camera and everything that comes with that camera. I don't know. No. I told.
Somebody recently that be happy that you're down on the show anymore, because I think your husband is waiting for you. And I said, in my opinion, I don't think you will ever meet a man being on the show. And what's interesting is you low key don't want a man who's too eager to film on the show.
No, because it's not real, you know what I'm saying.
I said, so take this opportunity to find possibly you're happily ever after, and I do believe that for this person.
Thank you, miss Lawrence. This was everything a long time coming.
I'm actually several times, but this is the perfect time to do it, and I like the fact that we can do it in person, one on one, in this setting, celebrating you having the number one movie on Netflix for over a week.
Yes, two weeks, now two weeks. Think, yeah for two weeks. So congratulations, I love you. I love you too. Yeah. Give it up for miss Lauren. Thank you for listening to Reality with the Kings.
New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Share, comment, follow, and subscribe to Reality with the King Wherever you get your podcast, visit Reality withthe King dot com and be sure to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Yes, Baby, my YouTube channel where you can get all of my visuals, baby, my expressions. Yeah, and don't forget tweet me your thoughts and hot takes about this
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