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Welcome to Reality with the King.
It's me Carlos King, the King of Reality TV and one of the most sought after executive producers in reality television with over ten years of production experience. Once a week on Reality with the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows, and revisit unforgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about me.
Hey, rain Drops, yahs.
On today's Reality with the King episode, I am reunited with my friend, my girl fan favorite the rain Drops love her. Yes, I'm talking about see Amazing Kase. We have to do a deep dive into the Bethany Verses Bravo Saga in addition to and My Bethany Boys, the number one worldwide podcast in the world. Her interview with the artists formerly known as ray Quel, Rachel and the backlash she received.
So let's get started.
Bethany Frankel, a former Real Housewives of New York City housewife, a former pal of Andy Cohen, allegedly has taken upon herself to hire two high powered attorneys and what she is calling reality reckoning, which means she is as of now focusing on NBC Universal slash Bravo. In terms of getting the reality stars, what she feels like is they just do everything from She wants them compensated for using merchandise. She wants them to have some of the same rights
as a sac after union workers. In addition to she wants them to get higher pay, and she also wants them which I was like, ooh girl, Bethany, what are we doing sis? She also wants retroactive pay for these reality stars and some of the things that her and her turnings are alleging is out of this world. But before we get into the documents, when you first heard about this, Kate, what was your reaction.
I think of myself as a very measured person. I like to have all of the information before I kind of decide on something. I actually was just on Mark Jerragos's show. He's one of the attorneys, and I was asking some of the questions about it too, because I think for the lay person it can be a little bit confusing. And so you have the scripted world and the unscripted world, and unscripted has has not been included in this strike discussion talks even that pre date this year.
For context, people should understand that reality shows really exploded in the early two thousands with like Survivor and a lot of the competition shows. Then when there was a strike two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, there really was a reality explosion because those shows were easier to make smaller budgets, quicker timelines. So over time, unscripted,
as you know, has exploded. And so now here we are in twenty twenty three and there are all of these nuances are that are being discussed for the scripted world, and rightly so, I think people in unscripted feel as if they have been overlooked. And I do think all of this stuff these are great conversations to have because ultimately people should be treated equally and be compensated for the work that they do. So now, as far as how this will all work out, I'm still kind of
finding myself trying to understand all the moving parts. I have the list of the ten things that she is suggesting. You've mentioned some of them. They include unscripted talent with shows that make it to air. Minimum should be five thousand dollars per episode. Talent should receive a ten percent raise each season. If the show is a huge success and ratings have increased, then it's subject to negotiation. The talent can walk away. Talent gets ten percent of their
last negotiated talent fee for additional seicles. Any additional streamer airing that season will also pay ten percent on shooting promotional days. Talent gets a per diem of one hundred dollars a day for series talent they've been that have not been paid. For shows that have continued to air, they should receive five thousand dollars per season retroactively from each distributor. Talent is not required to give any proceeds
of their business to any network or streamer. Talent should not be prohibited from promoting special brands on their social media so that the networks and streamers can try to garner the income for themselves. And lastly, talent should receive a percentage of gross proceeds from antllar EMRCH. So I was eager to kind of talk to you about this because you, of course are on the production part of it.
Now it seems as if, thus far most of the conversations that I'm hearing are in regard to just the talent. So what can you tell me about any discussions that are happening in unscripted when it comes to the production side of it. Are they eager to have changes made also?
And of those things? Because you also are someone who makes a show that was interested to hear what you think about some of these terms, because, as I mentioned, the thing about unscripted is it's notoriously easier to make than a scripted show, as one could expect, right, And what the lay person may not understand is that typically with unscripted contracts, you get paid the longer you're on
a show. So my first question is what do you think about discussions with regard to unionizing compensation and also what do you think that The second part of it is as somebody who makes these shows about the terms that she has suggested.
So that's in two parts.
Well, first starts I agree with you in the sense of look to be a reality star is one of the toughest, if not toughest job in the entertainment industry when you think about on camera talent, right, actors, they are able to hide behind a character, a role they play. They get to go home and not have to deal with people judging the character.
Right.
An athlete, they leave everything out on the field, the court, whatever, right when it comes to sports, they get to go home and no one's really judging their everyday lives because they're not seeing it.
Same with the actors.
So when it comes to reality stars, I always felt that the reality star were definitely the step children of this industry, the forgotten child, if you will, and they give the most to the show.
Who patres rupt but stay tuned for more.
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Users sixty eight percent off plus three months extra for free for the two year plan. This is reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show. I'm curious what you think. I think anybody in this industry who wants to be a disruptor, that's fine. I consider myself a disruptor, and by disruptor, I mean that I go against the grain of the systemic blueprint that was laid out before me. I applaud anybody who's able to do that. The one thing that people are
having a hard time grasping Kate with the intention. What is Bethany's intention here? Look, I don't know Bethany personally. I met her once. I had an overall deal at this production company in Los Angeles, and Bethany also had to deal with them too. And Bethany was accepting pitches of ideas from the production companies who.
Were a part of this bigger corporation.
Long story short, we had a lunch meeting at the Beverly Hills Hotel.
In California. Everybody and she came in.
She is everything you see on television, everything like I've spoken, energy, all of those things. What was funny about the the meeting is she loved my idea. She said, you gave me the best idea since I've been here. I love it, I love it, I love it. And she kept saying, do me a favor and elevate this elevated more like she was talking like that.
Kate elevated, elevated more. But I like this.
As she was talking to one of the presidents of the company, I like this.
This is good. So I'm like, Okay, Wow, I may actually have a show with Bethany. Long story short sister.
She left that company maybe a month or two after the meeting, so the show never came about, right, So I'll have that to say.
When I met her, she was very nice. She was everything you saw.
There's other people, thought Kate, who believe that she doesn't do anything without getting something out of it, and they think this reality reckoning, as she puts it, is a way for her to give a big middle finger to Andy Cohen and Bravo.
What could have happened for her to feed that out angry at Andy Cohen and one specific network though.
That's the million dollar question.
Now if you go down the rabbit hole on social media like I do. People are saying that when Bethany created her rewives podcast where Bethany, and again her words, a big celebrity would rewatch a Housewives episode and recap it and talk about it, she went on Andy Cohen show to promote it because Andy days prior to her appearance on Watch What Happens Live, Andy did an interview where he says something along the lines of he was surprised she was doing the podcast because all she does is shit talk.
The brand.
He goes on Watch What Happens Live is Andy and Jeff Lewis, and Bethany has said she felt ambushed because Jeff, as we all know, was going there when it came to like, why are you doing this? You hate the show, you talk so much shit about it. Why are you doing this? You don't think this is a copycat of what the other Housewives podcast are And then Andy started engaging in the conversation. Bethany, as you know, can defend herself,
but and I thought she did a good job defending herself. However, she left that studio and said she felt ambushed and she doesn't know why.
Andy is mad because she's able to.
Do whatever she wants because she was on Housewives, and they believe by day, the fans, they believe that was the first sign that there was a rook.
In their friendship. Well, I think what you have there is a notoriously independent person, right, and there's someone who has centered their career around these shows. So of course he's going to take offense if she leaves the show and says things that are negative, right, So one I could see both both sides of that, you know how they both could feel. Unfortunately, I think it's the other people around them that probably fan, the flames probably meane it a lot worse, right.
Oh yeah, oh yeah. And this is the tricky part.
Bethany and Andy were very close, very close. They would spend time in the Hamptons together and they're separate homes, of course, and you could tell they had a great relationship. I think Andy said in his book he went to like a Bethany party, you know, after she left the show, and that's when he mentioned coming back to Housewives. She said, let's talk about this, you know, in a day or two without tons of people at my party. She mentioned he went over her apartment and set her down and said,
please come back to the show. She said, you cannot afford me, and he said, give me a number.
She said.
She gave him a number that she thought would be like no way, Jose, and they made it work and that's how she came back on the show. So the problem is this, I believe that Bethany knows too much.
She knows how the sausage is made.
Yes, because if you're that close with an executive who knows what type of conversations you're having over Ramona Singer's Pano Grigio.
Well, I think that that's why Andy.
I mean, I don't know Andy personally, but from things he said, he doesn't really have friendships with them. I mean text messaging is one thing, but like they come over to his own home, they know deep and personal things. You've got to set a boundary because I think there
has to be some sort of line there. I don't think you could be on a show as a housewife and then be privy to conversations and then go back right back into the den, you know, because it puts you an unfair advantage with the other cast And I presume that probably is what happened once she went back. It creates friction, as you would I would assume you have had to deal with in the past, not on
just one show but others. But if there's another cast member that feels like they're in bed so to speak with the network or the producers or any contact at the network, that there is a power dynamic that is unfair. So I think it probably was a recipe for disaster for her to go back. But I can also see why he felt offended if she said anything negative. He's like, I did everything I good to bring you back. And also this is a big, huge part of my career and you're like shitting on it.
So I don't know.
I think I can see all sides of it. I think the problem is you can't really in this industry. I would assume it's too difficult to have a deep friendship with someone when there's a power dynamic, like someone is in the network and you are a cast member, like I just probably, I think it's probably impossible.
Oh, it absolutely is, because, like you said, the power dynamic, I mean we talk about that based on the me too movement and relationships that you know, women who may have with these powerful male executives, that the power dynamic may be an issue in terms of having an office romance, that you have to look at it deeper than just we're attracted to each other. So I do think you're right in the sense of, look, is it fun to like hang out with a network exec?
Absolutely? Absolutely, But does.
That mean in your mind you think you two are closer than what it appears? And I think Andy is shocked disappointed that Bethany will go too far.
They tuned for.
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Goal. I mean, I think the end goal obviously.
Once again, she says she wants to call it the Bethany clause. So she wants to eradicate all of this, in her words, old school traditions and add new to it, but she wants it to be called the Bethany clause.
Well, I'll tell you, like I said, I think with a lot of things, some good could come out of it, some of the terms that she puts out here with regard to how talent should be compensated, etc. One of the good things that I think can come out of this is it now that people are kind of more privy to the commitment, the sacrifice you make if you want to be a reality star. Is that a lot of people that get caught up in I want to be famous, maybe this is the escalator to success that
I want to be the face of something. I want to be an influencer, but I don't want to make content for two years with the hopes that somebody will find me and if I'm on a reality show, this is what's going to work, because it certainly has work for many people. But I think that raising all of this discussion will make them possibly rethink what it really takes to be a reality star. And I thought about this a lot listening to her interviews with Rachel.
The artist Pumbing None. That's Brakale.
I have to say this.
I think if anybody wants to be a reality star, they need to think about this. If you are going to consider it, you must do a couple things. You have to have long conversations with the production company and the people that want you to be part of the show about the direction of the show and why they think you are a good fit. You have to have a great entertainment lawyer who will go through your contract
with a fine tooth comb. Don't be quick to sign a contract because you so badly just want to use it as an opportunity to become famous or as a stepping stone to something else.
Really look through the language of the contract. That's really important.
Have people in your life who are not going to be sick evinced, people who are going to tell you the truth about the monster that you may or may not become. That this is not going to be the center of your life. There was a life before this, there will be a life after that. You have to have a good set of a sense of who you are in the direction you want to go in the world, and make peace with the fact that this may not be what you think it is. In other words, you
are joining whatever show. It may be a dating show, an ensemble show, or a competition show. And you may have these unrealistic expectations of how famous you're going to be and how much money you're going to make, because there are very few people Bethany is one of them who really make quite a bit of money, become household names,
and use it to create all these opportunities. So have realistic expectations and finally have some sort of plan in place, with the help of maybe a business manager, an accountant, or whatever it may be, to figure out how are you going to use this to do other things? Because if your goal is to just become the greatest star of XYZ, there are other people waiting in a line,
a very long line behind you, and you're expendable. So is funny, as your family and friends tell you you are, there is someone right around the corner that can replace you. And make peace with that. So you have to have some sort of plan what are you going to do with this opportunity. So if you don't have all of those things in line, you should not be on a reality show. And I thought also of that interview that she with Rachel is that Rachel was not cut out ever to be a reality star.
There are very.
Few people meeting. You've got to be honest with yourself. Do you have thick skin or not? I think somebody like La La Kent has very thick skin.
Yes.
I think a lot of housewives have very thick skin.
Yes.
However, Rachel said in the interview, in the first part of it.
It struck me.
She said, I'm someone who has always struggled with social anxiety and judgment. Why are you on a reality show? This was some She was a woman who had been in pageants. She pursued a relationship with a guy on a reality show. She pursued the relationship in order to get access to other people in the reality show with the hope of being on a reality show. And if you do not have the mental strength to handle what will come with being on a reality show, you should
never sign up for one. And I think people get really caught up in fame and the attention, and that you get invited to these things and you're going to be at this event, and they really don't have an honest conversation with themselves. In fact, I think maybe what they should those terms should include. Before you sign the contract for a reality show, you have to have a certain amount of sessions with a mental health professional about how this might completely change not only your life, the
lives of the people in your family. I don't know, but I think that again, good things may come out of this. It may make a lot of people who thought reality shows were in their life plan to rethink it, because I don't think people understand how difficult it is for talent to do these shows.
I think it's a really really hard hard thing.
It's very hard. It's very hard.
And no, you're right, if you are socially awkward and have a fear of judgment, you need to not step on anyone's casting zoom an audition to be a part of a reality show, especially one where on Badapump Rules, it's friends who have known each other for years. Some of them have slept with each other, They read each other, throw dreams, got slapped.
It's an intense program.
You mentioned somebody who says I have a fear of social anxiety and judgment signing up for Real Housewives of Atlanta or for f Boy Island or Survivor like that's a recipe for disaster.
You can't survive on the island of the Real Housewives if you're that person.
And that's the reason why.
You know, as somebody who hire reality stars to be one of my shows.
I look for that can you handle it? And listen?
Some appear they can, and after the first season, no one can because you're not understanding what you're getting into.
But after the first season they normally are like, Okay, we got it. You got it. It's like being a freshman in college.
You go through your freshman you know, you're sort of like, what is this, I'm confused.
I want to go back home.
You go back home every weekend because you miss your old life, right, yes, But in your sophomore year, you're like, you know what, girl, I got it. That's what it's like to be a reality star in your sophomore year reality TV.
You're good. I hate to interrupt, but stay tuned for more.
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and save over forty percent off. Again, that's try Miracle dot com slash King to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode Reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show. The artist formerly known as Raquel Rachel. She said on Bethany's podcast that well, not only she mentioned this, Alex Baskin, the executive producer of vand the Pump Rules, who I
know is in front of yours. Kate Rachel and Alex did confirm separately that the show Vanda Pump Rules was on the verge of cancelation before scanned.
Of all, he said on my show too, for people that don't watch the show, I think that the reason that it exploded this year was because it reminds a lot of older people, older older than twenty five, of the time in their life where they had less responsibilities. Right, you could just go out all night, maybe you worked.
At a bar.
So obviously a lot of women enjoyed The Bachelor and Real Housewives, but in my experience, a lot of men will say to me, oh, I love Vanner Pump Roules. It's a show that couples can watch, that friends can watch and all text each other. It's both men and women watch it. I think they were so struck by this because Rachel up At had this at this point, had seemed like a like a like a very kind hearted,
sweet and gentle person. And I think the audience felt had that they were scammed by her because he or she was carrying on this affair with a very close friend someone argued, best friend with her partner. And I think that struck a lot of the audience. They probably have known someone or been cheated on, and so they have this visceral reaction to that. And then the last layer of it is you're watching it all or not
all unfold, but part of it unfold. Because basically the affair wasn't revealed until well after they had finished filming, so a lot of the grievances that have come up those were things that were filmed or were not filmed.
They were off camera, So in going back and watching the footage, people can see that there's this menacing quality to her, Like there's this one scene where she's asking Arianna about the level of intimacy she has with Tom and you know now as a viewer, that she's sleeping with them the whole time, and that, I'm sorry, is a diabolical thing. That's diabolical to ask a woman about the level of intimacy that she's sharing with the man
she's with and you're secretly sleeping with him. So that is why people went bananas this season watching it because.
Of those two things.
So, yeah, a lot of us that has been said, like why wasn't this coboard or a lot of the stuff that was happening happened after they had filmed. All the story coming out about the affair happened after they finished filming. So then they got the cameras back up and they filed for a film for a little bit to kind of tie the story with a loose end and then they had their reunion. Yeah, so that is why people got so caught up in all of this. And now she said in the interview too, she was
very frustrated that they had all had monetized. But again, this is the nature of a very brutal entertainment industry, and this is true for scripted too, is that you have to strike the iron while it's hot. Right, So when this all happened, she went to a mental health facility, which I applaud her for. I thought that was the right decision to make, and a lot of them the show was airing, and so they struck the iron while it's hot. They had merchandise things done to kind of
make money for themselves. So now she's left the facility and she's frustrated that they made all this money. Well, I think that what she should have done is weighted year, if not more, to do any interviews, to have gone off the grid, gone back into a career that she was interested in before. I know that she had studied kinesiology. She talked about wanting to be an occupational therapist for children,
specifically in pediatrics. That is fantastic, gone and done, that got off television, because in my experience, the most interesting interviews are people that have had some sort of life experience outside of television got far more centered and then they have much more interest like introspection and insight not only just about who they are, but how they participated in this moment in television. Right, But she didn't give
herself much space to do that. I'm and I worry that she's sort of lost her voice in this because I don't know when she's going to have some time and space to really think about how she participated in this crazy story. And now she had mentioned she wants to do a podcast, and she thinks that there's this on top market of the of people telling the story of like what it's like to be the other woman? Now you're branding yourself. Would you want to walk away from that after this?
And that's a thing. Let me go backwards a bit.
Not everybody is meant to host a podcast.
Ray, Rachel. I'm sorry, Rachel, I love you.
You're nobody's host, and it's fine, and it's like, that's number one. You don't need to host anything, girl, So let's not do a podcast, my sweetpee.
That's number one.
Number two You're right, Kate, Why would you if all of this has traumatized you? And I believe it has. I believe it has one hundred percent. You can look at her eyes and till it's traumatizing. You can't continue taking the drug that has caused you to be put in rehab. You just you have to be so to walk away and be sober from it. So the drug is the stamp that's on your back, essentially.
Which is the other woman. Why talk about it?
All that is going to do is remind you every time you talk to somebody of the scandal situation.
So she had two decisions.
You could either not go to a mental health facility and you can make merchandise that say you know, I'm a mistress or whatever, But like, don't you want to move on from that?
Bethany received a lot of back lad from her interview with Rachel. These people k are reading Bethany for filth. They're saying, you talk about exploitation. You exploited Rachel all over again. You did not compensate her for the interview, You did not do your research watching the show.
You talked over her the.
Entire time, and a lot of people weren't into it. Bethany clapped back and said, all you haters, whatever, I have the number one worldwide podcast in the world, and you guys are just jealous. How do you know what I'm not doing for Rachel? You guys don't know. But I love engagement. What are your thoughts on that.
I don't think she cares what I think or anyone else think. So who cares?
Well? I care Kate Casey, and so does my rain drops.
I'll say this, I would hope that people appreciate that when I interview them, I do the work and I watch the show, and I've really invest myself in their personal stories.
Drop Mike, I mean Mike, drop, Mike drop.
And I will also add to that to Kate, you actually are invested.
In the subject matter.
You actually you want to know, you want to get into the psyche of your subjects, and really walk away saying I learned something after this interview and when it came to Rachel. Look, I have not yet listened to the three part conversation because I listened to Bethany and Jail reunion conversation and Bethany was over talking Jill the whole time, and I had to no, Shay, turn it off. But you know, for Rachel, I just couldn't stop maach another over talking conversation.
Okay, Casey, Well, I think there's something to it. I did, but I think there's something about Bethany. You know, Listen, everybody gets to choose who they want to interview them and I think that it sounds as if Rachel's mother, who has a huge influence in her life, has felt a connection to Bethany. And I think that's everyone as a prerogative about who they want to interview. So that's the great thing about having a million different shows and
a million different hosts. I hope that she felt like her story was told in the way that she wanted it to be told. And like I said, my advice would be for her to have waited and to waited for a year if she wants to wait a year. Some of the questions I would like to ask her are about why she even pursued being in pageants, because I think if you start there, you can really start to unravel it and get to the heart of it.
No, you're absolutely right about that.
So look, it remains to be seen what the outcome is going to be. With Bethany's Reality Reckoning and one thing for Sure in my Lisa Rena boys, you better.
Believe k and I are going to talk about it.
Thank you Kate for coming on the program I love and let the world know where they can find you, Follow you and support your top podcast.
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