Overtime – Episode #726: Kara Swisher, Rahm Emanuel, Jake Sullivan

Welcome to the video. From the HBO Late Night series, Real Time with Bill Ma. Hosting it ends this series, Kara Swisher wants to live forever airing Saturdays at nine, Caris Fisher. He's a professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, former National Security Advisor under Joe Joe Biden, Jake Sullivan, and he was Obama's White House Chief of Staff, Mayor of Chicago, Ambassador of Japan.

Rob Emanuel, wow, what a what a resume we have here. Okay, so uh you probably just watched you're on the overtime here, the uh show where I ended with that thing about AI. All of you said to me right after it ended, I'm right. So we all know that it's gonna kill us, but we just keep going toward the cliff like the lemmings. Is that is that where m about it? You said something very powerful in your uh in your

Statement there, you said the very people building this technology are warning us about us about what it's going to happen. They're saying, we're doing this. We're on the cutting edge of this, and it's really dangerous. Do something. And all of us are just kind of like, oh, I guess we'll see what happens. Here's the thing. They did this a long time ago. I was at dinner parties where they're like, We don't know how it works constantly. This is decades.

And one of the things I started warning about the social media was the same thing. This is this is dangerous. And what they they're more interested in the journey and the money'cause all of those people, Elon Musk, took billions and millions of dollars to develop it more. It's not like they're stopping. He Elon Musk did not say

It's so dangerous, I'm terrified of it, now I want to stop. He's suing to get control of open AI or paid by it or funded. So every one of those people who yells safety is also taking money from venture calvis to grow big. So what can we do? The warning sign here, which is well, the Federal Government is going to have to finally do something. They can't kind of go the three monkey routine, see no evil, here no evil speaker. When Dario anthropic

says, I'm not putting this product out. I'm not living in a world where one CEO's moral compass is what saves us. That is not how this is going to work. And the federal government is going to have to finally do something. You're going to get in industry, academic,

public policy people all round the table. And what that we do in Federal Government is we set a regulation, we wait thirty years to say it'll work. This is going to have to be real time, constantly updating things. But the Federal Government cannot do which is this wild west Because these guys, as you put their pictures up there, that looks a little bit like an FBI photo shot, uh, cannot be in control. They have to have adult supervision.

Can we go back to Dario is not releasing this because he's got a moral conscience? He is. He's just releasing it to forty forty big companies. You think it's not gonna get out you think you can release something to forty major companies and it's not gonna get out to everybody at a certain point. I give it about a month.

It is a low bar. That's what it is. He's the best and it's a low bar. Right. And what's really interesting is that you're we're not gonna regulate it. They have so much money. You you don't under the you know how much money they have. Illuminate to become a trillionaire. Absolutely gonna happen. And the reason with that much money and that much influence, they can't even pass a basic privacy bill. You n I've been screaming about it for 20 years.

They get mowed down by lobbyists and PACs and everything else. And now there's a new AI pack that they're funding. All all of these same people are funding the AI PAC. They're funding Crypto pack which got rid of I mean they can buy anything and that's what You know Elon pretty well. It's not that anymore. Yeah. Well it's been a little Yes, Elon Wan.

Those quotes I read from him, they're from a few years ago at least. And it was the first time I'd ever really heard anybody say anything like that. He said it to me at a at a interview that we did. Right. But it was a while ago, over ten years ago, and I was like, Oh, this has not been on my radar? Okay, Elon says it. Uh uh maybe it is a thing. Uh but lately I don't hear that from him.

with Sam Altman and with others, because they were scared of the power of the Googles and the Facebooks and the Apples. And it was to sh to to protect people and create guardrails. And instead, it's so much money, they have to go for it, I think. And now it's a it's a dip measuring cost.

Kara, is there any answer to this then? I mean, because you've I think you've sketched out this money motive is massive, but we've got to be I think people, because people are sick of this shit. I've interviewed all those parents who whose kids have died. And these people are still trying to skate out of culpability, like as if it's not accountability, legal losses, and someday a perp walk. I'm sorry. It has to happen.

But one thing I was one first I actually think it's one place that actually X and Trump when they meet in about a month actually can agree on something because both of them are scared of this. Right. Not fully knowledge. The second thing is. You think Trump is kidding?

No, I don't think Trump is, but the he's desperate for a deal w anything with G, so he looks good. Desperate. And I think this could be the one place. Second I will just say he had two trials slightly off sides, I mean off to the side, which is on the social media and kit.

They all went to jury and the jury took like ten seconds, boom, slapped'em down. That tells you how angry and anxious people are. It's separate issue than AI. But these media moguls slash technology mogul do not understand the loathing people have for the way they are acting. Right now the car It's like. Thank you. Thank you. Guess who is who boss is gonna be. Like they're buying everything, whether it's Apple, it's not just Larry Ellison, they're all buying the media part.

See, I don't think it's on Trump's radar. I I can't think of anybody in that administration. And this is why I I fight back so very uh people say you shouldn't have had dinner with Trump. I should have dinner with him again. Because I'd bring this up in two seconds and he would listen. I I can't who is bringing it up in that administration?

Radar is on who's now the the person whose radar is on now is Scott Besson. Yeah. Who called in all these guys. Why? Because he's worried that this mythos gets out, you get cyber attacks, you get a complete collapse of the financial system with But more than that, no, he did have people. We know that for a fact that Scott Besnot is aware and He's actually summoned these phones. Federal Reserve. They both called him in and called him all and said, Okay, wait a second here.

This has been a wake up call for them. What is it? They put in place. David Sachs was the AI's are he's its longtime Silicon Valley investor, tight with Peter Thiel and Elon and the rest of them. They brought in Emile Michael, the Pentagon, who did that ridiculous thing around around Anthropic, like Calling them. Never called an American. Peter Thiel who was asked like should humans keep living? And and it was like not a immediate answer. No. It was like uh I'm thinking. You know.

This is the SAP question. That is not an S. Because th they think we're going to be the we are the you know, this is the singularity. I remember when Ray Kurzwell was He's still doing it. What? He's still doing it. He's still around. And he predicted this a long time ago. You want right. There was different between predicting it and wanting it. Yeah. I don't want to be half robot. I mean, look, if it m the parts that are not my brain, yes.

As your doctor, you're not half robot, okay? It's not happening to you. Okay? It's not everybody else, but for you, you're not gonna be a half a robot.

All right, let's move on. Um these are from the people. You ever proposed this is for you, Rum, ten percent you have proposed a ten percent tax on prediction market. A ten percent tax on them. Okay, what kind of impact would this make? Well well give me the bones on this. The bones on it? You know, poly market. Polly. Yeah and calcium. We're cutting the case. National Institute of Health, National Science Foundation, NADARPA by forty percent.

G in China is doubling up every year on their research. We're losing the race, we're sitting on fumes, and we have to increase our research and development dollars. We have four hundred billion dollars on growing. spent on gambling. I want to bet on America, not bet against America, and that's what we're doing right now, and plow all the money into doubling up on research so we don't lose this race on fusion, nuclear energy.

quantum computing, all life sciences to the Chinese, which we are now losing. So you think the polymarket thing are are that influential? I think the polymar Oh absolutely and I also think there's inside trading going on. Online sport gaming when you put'em all together, it's four hundred billion dollars and growing. I'm for forty to fifty billion dollars of additional money going into finding a cure for cancer.

Finding a new energy source around fusion. We're not doing it and the Chinese are w competing, winning, and we're sitting here on the sidelines Yes, I I can't tell you the sense so my view Ten percent and the uh ten percent across the board to create the revenue goes in the lockbox. The second thing, everybody in the federal government, everybody, you are banned from participating in the online market. Thank you. I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it. From Peoria and Pontiac.

Fighting a war and you got a bunch of Nepo babies down in Palm Beach betting on That's not how we do this in a big economy. And maybe a lot of money. Yes, right? They pick the moment. When are we going to hit the Supreme Leader? There's a bet on that, hours before it happens. Because they know. We have seen more trades on oils within min on the oil market within day within minutes before the trade.

That is, you don't need AI to know insider trading, it's against the law, and nobody, the cops not showing up. So my view, ten percent tax. Junior is in those two companies. I did say Neppo Baby Palm Beach. Okay, got it. Subtle's my new quality. You are the only person at this table who has suggested that. Oh so there are people running for government.

Has the media overstated the rise of authoritarians in Europe and around the world? What do you think of Victor Orban's defeat last week? I I did have that exact thought. Like again the media kinda plagued me. I mean, for years all I've been reading about is the sec second coming of Stalin. There will never be democracy again in Hungary.

And then, oh, actually, well, people got tired of a guy just like they do in every democracy. They didn't like him and they wanted somebody with different policies and they voted him out and he went and uh conceded the next day. So I do feel a little used. Well I'll say one thing about this. This guy's not a little bit of a little bit Ally of it. Did everything he could. To tilt the playing field in his favor.

when you add up all the harms that he did to Hungary and this new movement that came in that you would like because it set aside all the old constituencies, all the old special. It said we're gonna bring everyone together. We're not gonna wilt, as you were saying before, this young guy Peter Majar.

And they went, they had to run through new media because they couldn't use the old media. In fact, this guy went on television now, having won the election, went on state TV, which would not let opposition figures appear, and said the first thing I do as Prime Minister is shut you down. So he was rigging the game. No doubt. I agree, buddy. But then he got too much. But yeah.

Here's the lesson for Democrats. I mean this and the rest of Europe. He made Orban's corruption relevant to your inability to pay. So in my case, President of the United States gets a a plane from Qatar, you get six bucks a gallon. Great trade, as my mother would say, such a deal. Who would not think? I mean, here's it. He's gonna get the his arch and you can't afford the golden arches. And I've I thought I go right at the end. Well done. Okay, thank you.

It wasn't you know, all the elites say, Oh, it's corruption. Oh, corruption never sells you idiot. It's making the corruption relative in how you're getting screwed. And that's the lesson for Morban. You're the only person at this table making that case and I I think it's a ver it is a great point, it is. Um not for the rest of your life. Uh cannabis use is on the rise among women, oh in the In the United States.

And for the first time recently uh perfect for four twenty uh coming up on Monday. For the first time recently outpaced men. Why does the panel think that is? Alright. No idea. Can we go back to AI? Yeah, I don't know. I mean because men are not a good thing. Who's the actor? I need to get high. Uh on pot? Yeah. And women. Uh-huh. Uh what do you think of J.D. Vance saying the Pope should be more careful when talking about theology? I hate this guy. No, I'm loving the story, but Catholic, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I as I've said he has the charm of a cyber truck as a politician. I have one thing. I mean look, the Pope is also an American citizen and should be able to say whatever he feels like. He just looks like a put. I don't know what else. Yeah, I know. Well he's such a recent convert. is an Augustinian trained pope. Augustine is the one that could develop the concept of just war. You're gonna lecture the Pope on the concept of just war, I think as

This is as one Jewish kid, that takes a lot of chutzpah. I mean that takes a lot of chutzpah. And I got a lot of chutzpah, but that is a lot of... That wasn't like Augustine's main thing. His main thing was that you're born with original sin. You're evil to begin with, and that's why you need the Catholic Church. That's why you need him to tell you what a joke. One was not a good guy either. He's gonna out Catholic cute right now.

I'm not going for it. I'm I'm I I'm not for Jews for Cheeses, but I am for Jews for Pope Leo. I'm setting that up as my new non for Pope. Let's say JD Vance did not have a great week. Yeah, right. I mean lecturing the Pope. No. About theology, which I don't know what Latin for Hutzpah is, but that is crazy. Thank you. Right. Showing up with Orban saying vote for this guy and then getting absolutely repudiated, then twenty one hours in Pakistan and he comes home and it's like I got nothing.

Don't leave out the hall he couldn't do. Well there you go. So that's that's in one week. Don't assume that Trump's not also setting them up. And meanwhile, Marco Rubio's with Trump at the UFC fight. Don't assume that there's not some evilness by Dr. Evil. Thank you. Plotting to discredit JD Bend. Why does he have to do that? It's his picnic. But all we have to do is say, my pick for for the my successor is and his people will follow.

It is not as delicious unless you're pulling out someone's toenails. That's how it goes with this gun. When was the last time he's ever showed any loyalty in the Uh yeah. And he what he wants to show is that the Republican Party is nothing without me. He is gonna walk out and he's gonna show them there's a one way street on loyalty.

I know that personality trait of him'cause I've seen it in other people. He likes, he wants, needs askers around him, but then he does not respect them. If you do it he doesn't respect you. He actually likes me because I didn't do it. Yeah, I can tell that. Yeah. Like Exactly. He likes to punch down and kiss up. That's what this president does.

Ram, what is one thing Japan does well that America should consider adopting? Thank you. It's the most beautiful thing I've seen. Five year olds walk to school all alone. Yes. And they don't, there's no fear. They go across the streets, they walk out It is. I told all the Japanese business leaders, you can have monk fuji. A five-year-old with this big, a backpack this big with their little bac with their little uniform, they come to a street, they put their hands up, all the cars stop. No.

It's sublime. It makes me cry when I think about how gorgeous that is. The one person that's done it. Right. I'll tell you this. They have a sense of respect and sense of community. We wear masks to protect ourselves. They wore masks to make sure you didn't get sick. And respect for others is a quality that if you ask me what we could learn.

Japan has it in spades and it's of unbelievably beautiful quality and you see it where they nurture these children and give'em back. We've stolen our children's childhood. They have given it to them. And that to me is one thing we can learn from them. Say that when you're run. All right. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Log on to HBO.com.