Mia Changes Everything!

Amy and TJ present Aubrey o Day covering the Didty trial. Hey guys, it's Aubrey O'Day.

Welcome back to the coverage of the Diddy trial, brought to you by TJ and Amy. I am so excited. I know I always am excited about my guests, but I have a very, very established attorney who has got her own show with her husband on iHeartRadio called Legally Burnette Emily. I have to say as one single non lawyer, but think she is to one very housewifed up attorney who is legit.

I am so happy to finally be talking this case with you.

I really want to get into me a bombshell this week, bombshell for the prosecution.

You know, I'm excited to talk to you too, because obviously my husband and I have been covering the trial. We do a lot of legal analysis, you know, we break it down. We talked about testimony, you know, we talk about Rico and what he's actually being charged with

So this is a win win for both of us. So yes, I agree.

I can't wait. You can teach me how to catch your husband, teach me the law, all right, but we'll work on that, okay.

So with Mia, I just want to first establish two days of testimony.

She still is going to be in cross on Monday.

We ended today with Brian Steel cross examining her.

For those that don't know, Brian Steele.

Is in most cases probably one of the best most effective lawyers on Diddy's side, and probably this was one of the worst crosses in the entire trial for me personally. It ventured over into victim blaming, which at this point I think Dawn the therapist is established for the most part, everybody's kind of established.

People that are victims.

Do go back to their abusers, They do have shame in their stories, They do go back to things that are familiar in order to just forget and not and pretend like it didn't happen, in order to find normalcy again. This contact back with abusers, this you know, wanting to work back with them or communicate with them. It's a nothing burger for me at this point. If that's all you have, then you don't have much.

Well, I would agree with that, and I would say that's basically what the defense has, and that's what they're going to focus on on every single way forward. It's always to be why did you stay, why were you there so long? Why did you engage? Why did you come back? Why did you keep showing.

Up for work?

And I thought it was really important that the prosecution did put Dawn on, who I can't remember is she psychiatrists?

She's a clinic forensic psychology segment.

Right, and we know she also testified and the ambramber Johnny, Yeah, right, So but I thought it was really important that they brought her forward.

And I'm sure you probably agree with that, because that's the question that the jury has is why did people continue to go back? Why did they stay, why did they show up for work the next day? Why did they assistance spend years? And so it was important for her to come on. But you have your own personal experience in that realm as well.

Yeah, And for me personally, you know, I was fired on national television after years and years of leading up this band for being raunchy and promiscuous and bad for business, which none was true. I wish at the time we were in an era where things like me Too, and a lot of movements now that have occurred where you can go against corporations and you can sue people for wrongful termination, and it is something that feels more available

Right?

Wait, I can I ask a question because I think this is ironic what I was listening to you talk? Weren't you poised as the sexy one?

Wasn't that? Weren't they? Wasn't it?

The intent was to establish you as like the pretty the sexy one, and then you end up getting fired for being like the sexy one?

Was that the do I?

Really?

Yeah?

And also how funny is it I get end up being fired for being raunchy and promiscuous and that's.

Bad for business.

If it's bad for business, well then did he must be really bad for business because we all know that he likes a little raunchy and promiscuous At this point.

Well, it seemed to work well for his business, actually, because the fan has done it.

For years and years and years and years and years and is a billionaire.

And that part right there for me is where I'm at with this. I'm very I feel very strong after me as testimony about what has been proven, and let we'll get into that as we continue, But beyond that, I'm really interested in systematic changes. You know, I talked about Capricorn's testimony I would have liked it to go a little bit further into details of who made payments to her, and let's establish a few more people.

Because there are the trail is.

You got to remember that this man was still in order to stay at the levels and operate at the levels of destruction that he was operating at for so long, you have to have your pockets continuing to be fed. You have to have the whole establishment basically behind you.

Now, how much.

People's knowledge of things were is always something that I assess, but you know, my first hand knowledge of when I was around, there were people that saw plenty of things, and plenty of things kind of been stopped by very big people. And they continued on. It continued on. They fired me, and I even had to go back to Reunion and get beat up some more under those same terminology statements, everyone knowing damn well that those things aren't true. I had to play the character of that, and they

But there's a lot of limitations in my contract.

My mom's a good lawyer, so I didn't have to show anything I didn't want to show. And you know, you in chovern to the pictures that are painted for you. I'm sure even as a reality TV person, you've had painted pictures of you created either by your cast members or by editing or producers. They're all involved, and you've had to find ways to sometimes lean in and sometimes absolutely establish No.

Yeah, well, I would also say when you were going through that, that was a different time period. And I think that it was now because of all these women that have come forward like Cassie and there's been women before her, and with the Me Too movement, I think women are more empowered now to stand up for themselves and to say I'm not comfortable doing that, that's not right. The problem is is that this was early two thousands for you, right, And I don't think that you had

What I loved getting back to the testimony with Mia is she is the first witness to establish a different pattern of behavior in regards to sexual abuse. This isn't a girlfriend, This isn't somebody that wanted to be a girlfriend. This is somebody that was an employee. This was somebody that was raped in ways where she's in a closet packing his suitcase and he's got his dick out and forcing it in her mouth.

Allegedly.

This isn't the standard freak off staged event that's going on. And we're now venturing into other territories of other abusive types of behavior. The force is still there, like in every other case, the coercion is still there. Basically, everything he did, from making her live into in his home, the not eating, not not being able, working ridiculous amount of days, four or five days straight, all of that was very standard.

We went through that too.

I mean, to me, I just felt like, this is what it is when you are working at.

This powerful of a level.

It wasn't until I worked at that powerful of a level with that even more powerful essentially sometimes people that I realized, oh, these motherfuckers take a lot of breaks. Y'all are a little bit late in all honesty. Presidents, sir, you're a bit late. You're an apprentice. I mean, the work ethic was way different over this side. But I learned that actually people do get water and bathroom breaks and food at lunch, et cetera. That's was just not something that that that.

We were used to.

But as far as Mia goes she's a critical witness because unlike the other two government victims, this is just not a former romantic partner. This is an employee. She was sexually abused allegedly. They're victim blaming her on the cross and it's not really working for me.

It absolutely doesn't work.

You know, you always have to wonder if there's that one person in the jury that just doesn't understand. But then again, you never know. They always surprise you. As kind of what every attorney has always told me along the way. Mia, in regards to Rico, I feel she's established that in a big way.

So you because I've worried. My worry in this case is establishing Rico.

So I was.

Feeling up until this point where you're saying when Mia comes in and again I don't know if we establish this already, but me as a pseudonym. So that is not her real name.

No, that's not a real name.

I was wondering if you know who she is?

Yes, yes, so you know her personally and you've met her before or had interactions with her before.

Yes, And what do you.

Think I want to know your opinion on this. What is do you think is her reasoning for using a pseudonym because clearly she's sitting in court across from him.

He knows who she is.

I assume it's just to keep her name out of the press. However, at some point it's going to be released and it's going to get out there. There's no way you can keep that secret for a long period of time.

So to me, it's just let me say this. You'd be really surprised. I did a search to see how easy it was to figure out who she was based off.

Of just her testimony alone. In regards to her work profile, right, it's wiped.

Oh wow, really.

It is wiped. It's not on the Revolt site. It's completely wiped off of all of that. I have people news friends that work for very big news sources that all are still don't know who she is. They could describe her to me because they're in court seeing her. I already know who she is, but I would never

He's very good at what he does.

Right, And you have to remember, just everyone out there listening. The prosecution has to prove Rico, which means that they have to prove that Diddy worked as a criminal enterprise and that he was at the top, and that all of his employees were working together for a unified benefit of this criminal enterprise. And so far, when you have Cassie testifying and you have some personal assistance testifying, it was like, I don't know, are we establishing a criminal enterprise?

What can you Can you explain to me what criminal enterprise legally means?

Can it be?

Because what I've what I understand about RICO was created for the mob families is to take that those situations down. But in the past couple of years from what I understand that it's really been stretched and utilized in other cases in different ways, and you've been able to establish smaller corporations run by one big.

Lead and less people.

They've been able to utilize it and win in cases that don't look as aggressive as a mob case would. And so I really want you to explain to the audience how small it could actually be and and still have this successful RICO charge like exem and and R Kelly.

Can you can talk about those two.

R Kelly was that's one person at the top there was benefiting from a lot of things that had a lot of people around him doing criminal things, moving people, and he got charged. So tell me how low the bar can be and still get a conviction in regards to people.

Well, you know, it's actually it defines RICO defines and enterprise a criminal enterprise. It's actually defined very broadly, which is good because we don't want to have a very narrow scope on it. And it's really just a business or a group of people that are based in criminal activity. And really it's you have to have two criminal acts

That he can.

And also the one common, one common thread too is who was paying everybody, and that is bad Boy Cassie was doing. She said her full time job became being a girl in the freak Offs doing sex work, but she was paid under bad Boy with the same payment that an artist waiting for ten albums to come out would be being paid. But she wasn't making albums. She was doing sex work and that was expected of her. Those payments were coming from bad Boy. MIA's payments were

Right, And of course they had kid cutting testify to the arson and burglary.

And kidnapping with Capricorn.

Exactly, because there you have you're establishing not only is there the sex acts and the sex trafficking, but then you have the burglary or you have the arson, So you're establishing obviously more than two criminal acts within a ten year time period.

So, you know, do you feel that it's been that the burden has been met just right now today?

I don't know.

I mean, I think so it really depends on how savvy the jury is. And I really feel like there's gonna First of all, we're only in week three of testimony, so obviously there's going to be more people that testify, and then it really comes down to prosecution when they do their closing arguments to actually tie it all together for the jury so that they understand how all these people were involved, how they were paid, and how they were all you in this criminal enterprise for his benefit.

Well, what kind of witnesses are you you personally still wanting to see because I have to take the jury and the possibility that somebody just doesn't get it on the jury out of my head because there's so many people that don't get it anymore in our society. I'm scared to death about that. But if we put all of that aside, and you who is credible and understands this and understands the testimony.

And is well versed. What more do you need to see?

You know, I would like more, I wouldn't.

I would like security to come forward, bodyguard bodyguards and say I protected him, this is what I saw, I took these payments.

I just something, just a little bit more.

I mean, in my mind, Rico's established. I'm just saying on a jury. Have they established it yet? I don't know, but we still have weeks of testimony, and obviously I'm also it surprises me that you weren't summoned, you know.

I think because so at there's a piece of my story. There's pieces of my story that I can't speak about because I have an exclusivity in a different situation. And that was done prior to even understanding that any of this type of justice was going to be something that was available and real in my lifetime.

So a lot of us went.

In a direction to hope to seek justice with somebody that felt like they were going to get to the bottom of it. Now that we're getting it to the bottom of it in front of the world that have been allowed to do this, you know, but without sharing my full story. So it's hard to get into that part.

As far as like the beatings and things like that.

A lot of the stuff that is being spoken about, and a lot of the really bad stuff was happening during a dirty money era of the run, and that was after I was already fired.

So you're saying a little pre maybe a little your experience was before it really started to take off into some of.

These in my opinion, allegedly it was taken off in the nineties. But in regards to you know, these are very specific criminal charges and you'd have to really be able to bolster very specific criminal situations. And I have never been a willing participant in anything criminal.

Okay, let me ask you a question, did you were you aware of these alleged I guess they're not alleged because they're on tape and we've seen them. But these freak offs when you had your experience, was that something that you had heard of, that you saw, that you witnessed, that you knew about.

I don't think I can get into that territory, but.

I believe a lot of people that got close enough to that enterprise understood the sexual behavior that was occurring around them. It was very It's like they say that prison is more gossipy than West Hollywood during the weekends.

The gays out for brunch during the weekends, and West Hollywood.

Bad Boy was a gossip mill of and everybody loved to share their videos and their times and their experiences and their knowledge of things from.

All sides of it.

And so, I mean you could see right when this came down how many bodyguards came forward and were just openly discussing the butt plug size they would buy for him, untildo, this, that, this that. I mean, it was like Jesus, like within two days you had every bodyguard talking like low level, silly gossip stuff that he's not on trial for his sexuality.

I didn't take what I didn't love.

That's why I'm nervous about the bodyguard situation, because there were so many that have come forward that have been in the documentaries and that are also problematic themselves. They would have to have been given immunity. I definitely spoke to one that was willing to take immunity.

You know, I don't know.

You don't know what happens beyond your personal interaction with Homeland Security. They don't give you information. If they find something out, they do not tell you. They don't share information. There's nothing that is you're not having like that. They're very kind and and and compassionate and good people that are, you know, good actors of the law, but they don't they don't shed light on your experience for you.

I know that there is a lot of talk about whether they're going to show the Goff videos during the trial. Now the question is does that help secution or does that hurt the prosecution. I guess it really depends upon how much they show what they show, But if they show it in a way where people are like, Okay, that's crazy, but it's just a bunch of adults that consented to this. I've heard that Dinny actually on these videos. I don't know if this is true, this is alleged.

He clearly was very aware that what he was doing was criminal, in my opinion, because he was having Cassie set it all up, like if you wanted to pick which guys dix and which guy's colors and which guy's sizes you liked. Instead of giving her a fucking eight page recite, why didn't you just go on the side and pick them out and make a phone call. He was having her go get the photos, show him the picture, show him the people, get the information, go over, give her the money.

She goes and pays. Don't look at him, just do what I say.

But it's like everything was It's like he was always passing off the control to other people. Shiit Mia was carrying around his drug pit purse allegedly with all of his colorful pills in it like it's it's it's like every he had to have some knowledge that what was going on, in my opinion, Allegedly that was going on was was conal was criminal or else, he would have been a little bit more hands on and a little

He was on the go, he's moving.

It's it almost is giving a bipolar jump in personalities and moods and shifts and everything.

It just stand up and go out.

Don't know if that's drug field, if it's a mental health condition, I don't know. Allegedly, whatever it is, it was very shifty. But that being said, you'd think that, like if someone's that shifty and that on the move, that they would just make calls themselves on certain things.

But he was very careful to not do that. He was careful with Cutty to be.

Out of the house by the time Cutty gets back. He's careful at Soho house to tell him what.

Do you mean right?

He's also careful that he has someone under his direction actually put the cocktail in the car and commit the arson. It's not him, He's not the one cutting the convertible open.

But you know, I thought the same thing as that.

Jay might have flipped the man who did allegedly and you can go down a nice, dark, dirty YouTube hole if you'd like to. One night, I'll come over for drinks like Little fives moment, except that you are too. But but you could go down a nice little YouTube tunnel of understanding. Back in the day, people that came forward and said that they were prostitutes for Cassie and Puff, and they name people that he'd talk to on phone

He's a yeah, he's like some AU.

I was like, tell me specifically about AAU says, And he was like, some aussays are are have got that? I don't care what the payment is I want to be I want to be in the most prestigious position to fight for justice for people. And He's like, and some realize that after doing this job for a certain period of time, they're going to get a great corporate gig that pays a lot of fucking money when they settle out and want to go out away from that job.

Were so proud of their legal prowess and being around lawyers and some that people.

Can come in a room and be high fiving someone they know is a fucking criminal just because they did a better job at convincing everyone in the room.

That's like, I want to grab my pearls.

I don't like I know, I agree with you. At the end of the day, it comes down to theatrics. A lot and a lot of a.

Trial is nothing more than who is the more convincing attorney, who plays the part better, Who does the jury like better, who's more likable, who's more attractive.

The most important part of this entire trial was jury selection period. Absolutely, that is the most important part of this trial. And imagine how much incredible testimony has been has been put on the record during this time period, a very short time period, as you said, Yet the most important thing was jury selection, and they had some very strong people on the defense side choosing juries. And of course ausas are very good at what they do as well.

So you just you got a hope.

But I you know, a more male jury than female scares me a bit.

Yeah, I agree with that.

You know, let me ask you another question, because there's been a lot of talk about this victim number three, who supposedly is named Gina, that now they can't find to testify.

She's she's it's not that she can't be found, she's tweeting, right from what I From what I understand, she she's sent out a tweet just saying she doesn't she wants to be private. Now you can go down a YouTube spiral again, you can find the interview that she gave on a radio show discussing stomping a baby out of her paint, trying to pay her for an abortion that she willingly had because she didn't want to take his money because she loved him. She's more of a soft

Was she a girlfriend or just someone that she wasn't someone that worked? Did she work for him or was she a girlfriend?

No, no, working for him.

I don't know what to call his girlfriend or not, because he just seems to have thrown that around.

Loosely, right, loosely.

Yeah, I don't even know that anyone was a girlfriend because I think in order to call someone your girlfriend, you have to care for them. And I don't know how much consideration was given to any of these people allegedly, so I don't love that word. But no, she was not working for him. She was not a worker at bad Boy. But they are going to establish medical records

I believe that's the is that the Jane, that is who they're Jane that's coming up Jane.

But I think more so what ends up happening in a situation like that where somebody gets nervous at the at the at the final point because their name is about to be out there and they don't want that, so they want to then not come, I think a way to get because I think if you're subpoena and you don't show up, that's you go to jail for that, I believe.

Is that correct?

Yeah, that's why the defense attorney I.

Think they didn't pursue it, and I think they didn't make a thing because I think that they probably did get in touch with the women the women were prop allegedly, and the women were probably like, listen, I'm not going to help you out if I get.

Up there, right, and then they don't want to take that risk, so it's better to just not.

You don't want to take a risk if if you paid attention in the media, they said one of the victims dropped out. She never wanted to participate in any of it. She didn't want to talk to onland security, she didn't want to be a part of the trial. Who leaked that it certainly wasn't the prosecution, It certainly

Daddy, right exactly? So what else did you really allegedly? What else did you take away from me as testimony that you thought was interesting or was compelling for you?

Shit? Let mean, oh well, here's just a sidebar.

It's becoming very obvious that he paid women way less than he paid men. George Kaplan was given six figures. Capricorn and Mio were both paid her on I think they said forty thousand, fifty thousand. That was interesting, and they also were all harassed and abused.

I had a question to ask you because you have personal experience with them, and I thought this is random, but I found this interesting that I think on two different occasions it has come up in testimony that I think it was Gina, but I don't. It wasn't Gina testifying, but it was someone testifying to an incident where apparently Diddy threw apples at Gina, and then Mia was testifying. I believe yesterday that he through spaghetti at her, and I just was like, it was the food items that I.

Thought, and there were a god and they okay, right, and I was like, allegedly allegedly, but what is that? Is that a form of humiliation or a lack of.

Any type of control at all, that no matter what is on the surface of a countertop, that you will just reach for it and assault someone.

Yeah, basically, yeah, I don't Maybe he just happened to, you know, eat more than he ever let us eat.

But I don't know.

Maybe there just was food was the most readily available thing around. Maybe it has to do with comdowns or come ups and when you're hungry and when your moods get bad and when they who knows, But there's no I don't think there's anything specific.

To the food being thrown. It just happened to have been what was there.

I just found that interesting that in this testimony, like food keeps coming up.

It was like, well, we certainly didn't have any when we worked for it, So I'm glad somebody was being said somebody's somebody's getting spaghetti. At this point, I don't see any possible way after this testimony that twelve people unanimously agree to acquit him.

I don't see it happening at all.

How do you feel, I don't even see a path for twelve people acquitting him on all charges. It's not even I don't even see it at all.

You're the one with a degree. Do you see any lane for that?

No?

I don't.

I think I think the testimony has been too compelling. I think the repetition of the repeated behaviors. It's not like he got drunk one night and you know he went all he went off the rails, which can happen to people. I think it's a long established, repeated behavior, over and over and over, and it goes down. I mean, it boils down to the fact that he's a cruel man's it's cruelty. It's about power, it's about corrosion, it's

Can you give the definition legally in Layman's terms.

I suppose for the audience about what coercion is, because half the people I talk to can't even say the word correctly, and I think people just are too embarrassed to ask.

I don't really know what that means.

Oh my gosh, I don't know. If I could give.

The chattypt it my CHATGYPG loves me it gets back to there.

I mean, i'd have to actually google. The legal definition of coersion.

Is the legal definition of coercion, Okay, The legal definition of coercion generally refers to the use of force, threats, or intimidation to compel someone to act against their will. Key elements of coercion threat or use of force.

They've proved it.

Lack of con lack of consent. They've proved it intent. The perpetrator intends to control or manipulate the person the victim's decision making.

That's there.

They've proved that resulting action the victim performs in act or refrains from one that they otherwise wouldn't have done freely. They've proved all key elements of coersion with multiple witnesses.

Yeah.

Absolutely, And even when people are acting as the defense would claim willingly because they're showing up or they're carrying things, or they're carrying out these these demands. If they claim, like with free will, there isn't free will. You know that there's no free will. You know that there's repercussions later.

I don't know that I've ever really had free will my entire career. Sadly, if you made me think for a second as you were saying that, I definitely could like bob my head, yes for them making the band aids. But there's always somebody controlling your narrative. And as you get further, I mean, I've been doing this since I was a kid, and I'm forty one now, so over two decades I've been in the industry and haven't had

There is always some uniform plan.

There is always a schedule and a time and a place and the right thing to say and the right person to say it. And when you get your shot, you go, and if you don't, you don't. And I don't know that I've ever just been People see me as someone that is so confident and they love to jump on the train the second that this all came down and say, Aubrey told us so. She told us so for twenty years. She's been telling us he was a dangerous person. He wasn't somebody that was safe to

But I don't know how free the will is of anything, really, because.

A lot of times I feel the system already has decided things. So I just like, I think the jury is a piece of this puzzle. That is just who they are as people and how they are going to interpret the information that they have been given. They are just going to interpret it as so we can't really make a call for them. I mean, I know that

Yeah, that's mind blowing.

Let me tell let's talk about a world where that happens. Now.

You know, one thing I've had a little slight fear of is and I've made a clear in documented form just in case it happened, so that the record could show I was right again. But it worries me that politics and entertainment tend to mirror each other pretty pretty closely. We've seen a lot of things happening politically lately that are like chalking. Whether you like someone or don't like someone, there's a lot of movements that are just like what chaotic?

Yeah, I did not think that that could happen, whether I like you or not. I didn't think all that could happen.

Now over here, What if there's a scenario where I didn't think that that could happen. In the beginning, before MIA's to me, I am standing steady on ten toes

It's a possibility, but I'll tell you just based upon the little that I know of him, I don't think he would take a plea deal.

Well, he didn't take the first one, but I think after me he should start considering it.

It's looking pretty bad.

But when someone has been in the world that he's been in, with people catering to his every whim, you don't think like a rational, reasonable person. You think that you're always going to win and you're always going to get away with it.

I don't.

I don't even think he's had enough time to process the level of colossal destruction that he has created across

Fine.

Yeah, that was a maneuver to get to make Cassie weaker and to not be able to have somebody to connect with on that stand in my opinion, and I think, you know, that's a good lawyering move, but a shitty moral move, which is why again I don't love lawyers that are big defense criminal defense lawyers and situations like this, it's an icky.

I respect them because they're really good at what they do.

The eight pack of white women was effective racially. I know a lot of people that were like, why all white women? That's not a good look. I don't like the way this feels. I felt it even and I was scared to say it, but I was like, I mean, it shouldn't come down to race. It should come down to who's most qualified to take on a case.

But Optics are everyone.

I know, well, optics are everything in a courtroom. Everyone.

When they saw Cassie's pregnant belly, everyone was like, damn it, he'd better come with more than gray hair.

Well, you know, the defense made a motion that they didn't want Cassie.

Them to be able to see her belly.

Yes, they wanted her seated before the jury came into.

I know, there were a lot of little tactics that showed me, Okay, he's still either the lawyers are just.

Really good in telling him what to do.

I don't know the fact that he's throwing love hearts and all of that bullshit. Still like, I just can you show us a signal of accountability so if you do get off on anything, like, all the people that have been in your path of destruction can feel like safe staying alive on this earth.

Here's another question, And I feel like this maybe.

Feeds into his narcissism or ego or whatever you want to call it.

The fact that he has his children sitting in the courtroom.

I already said this on the very first podcast is mind.

Boggling to me, mind boggling.

What I've asked every type of every time race age range of man that I know, would you want your would you want or even allow if it meant you could look better in front of a jury? Would you let your daughters hear about how you were slipping, slurping, slapping and popping it off every which.

Way in the freak offs?

And every single man that I've spoken to, every single race, every single age range, was like absolutely not no, zero no.

For me, I think it's a choice.

Yes, and would you not be completely embarrassed? And that's what makes me think that this is truly someone who's so narcissistic that they have no concept of what they've done that they would allow their children and their mom. What's his mom like eighties something or I don't know, like his elderly mom to be.

You have you done any research on his mom and what her work was and things like that.

I don't know anything about his mom. Is that another rabbit hole that I need to go down?

I'm laying in.

Bed, probably allegedly probably allegedly, Okay, all right, but I think you know, I think for me, and this is sound, this is going to sound crazy because I don't even think it's a smart legal thing to do. But he's so down and out with the testimony. At this point, I feel all of the key things have been established, from racketeering to sex trafficking to definitely possessing people across state lines.

Those are all five counts.

I think at this point you need to tell a very strong tale of how hurt people hurt people. I'm gonna need to know how he was hurt and why he hurt others, and I still would have to call him guilty because the facts of the crimes are the facts of the crimes.

But at least if.

I heard, maybe if I were a jury member that doesn't understand facts and crimes, if you told me why this hurt person hurt people and his hurt was so deep that.

It fucked me up.

Those are the times where I've had sympathy for him along the way prior to getting into everyone's testimony, just based off of my general assessment of the time that I was in and knowledge of the times where I was not in but had very reliable people that were in it along the way telling me everything.

So you're saying the only way that you would feel any ounce of sympathy is if there was some testimony that went to him being hurt so severely.

I don't know. I'm I was able to have sympathy at the beginning of the trial. I'm not getting it anymore. It's not in me. No, no, no, I'm out none none.

Now we're now, we're getting into territory where the alleged sexual assaults are looking different than staged events.

Yeah, they're looking just.

Like as also Cassie alleged rape. That scares me deeply for all the unknowns in my own life.

U we're breaking patterns.

Now, we're going into territories that are different, and that concerns me.

I've lost the.

Compassion card in the beginning when you have eighty civil suits and a lot of chaos, and I know some a good amount of the players, and I know you know. I had a bandmate that took the stand and it was heavily reported that she was inconsistent and a lot of her testimony. You know, I've known her to be inconsistent. So imagine prior to all of this, knowing I believe this person is inconsistent in the experiences that I've had with her, unfortunately a good amount.

So did you think did you think her testimony helped her hurt the prosecution.

I think it did nothing if I'm being nice, If I'm.

Being like you, judge, it hurt a little.

It was the wrong It was the wrong thing right after Cassie to have somebody. The thing that I didn't love is the inconsistencies came within the depositions that the prosecution took. They didn't even have to bring up anything on her that they may have had.

Right, So you're saying, why bring it up if it's going to be an inconsistent statement, and then your witnesses doesn't look credible in court, and Cassie.

Was believable to everybody that left the.

Court room and talked to me.

So I don't think we needed and we didn't need to double down on the fact that she got hit because there's a video of her beatings. Everybody knows what the beating looks like. We can't get it out of our souls.

Yeah, what's your take on that video? Who do you think leaked it? Do you think it was someone in.

I can't see on the hotel side, I can't say.

Well, here's what's interesting.

Is that there is a group of us.

I keep trying to get them to be able to be on the podcast with me, you know, because this started almost about two years ago. For a lot of us, and all the things that people were being shocked by in the past two years, we knew very.

Long lin some of them.

Yeah, some of it we've known since we've been there.

Other things we've known when down, dude, we know every graphic detail. No, but we knew plenty of I knew a few of the prostitutes.

I knew the person that owns the place it was giving the.

Prostitutes to the that they were calling. I knew one of the prostitutes was in prison. It was on Jigglos allsurely.

The guy that killed his girlfriend.

Yeah, and he said he told them no, it's not true. But then his face was up on.

That posterboard in court and I was like, that's into Wait, are you.

Talking about the what's the guy's name then or whatever? The bald guy or you take.

A guy from Jigglos.

Well, there was two guys that were up there from Jigglos.

I think the other guy did an interview talking about he was on deck for it but never got called. Basically, stop interviewing. No one gives a fuck stop inserting yourself in a moment that isn't about you, which is technically how I felt about, like even.

Doing this podcast. I didn't want to do it.

I was saying no for a very long time. In the ninth inning, it got presented to me in a different fashion, and then I felt a little bit more.

I learned a little bit more about the.

Personal side of things that I'm still trying to figure out, and that frustrated me. And then this people came to me on this side and told me a way to do this that felt more credible and less like Wendy Williams.

Even though I love Wendy, you mean less less gossipy, tabloidy more.

I didn't really you know, I don't want to sit on a podcast every day and be interviewed about the dark, evil ways I established in the very beginning. I don't have an ending that I want to see at the end of this. As more testimony goes on, I'm getting a little more heated.

I gotta be real with you.

I have to like pace myself in between these podcasts and make sure that I come back down to a place where my biases aren't popping up because I have them, I said it day one.

I can't not have them. My entire life turned out.

To be something different than what it would have been had I never met him. He course shifted my life. He course shifted many people's lives. He not only course shifted my life, he course shifted my understanding of myself as a woman, which likely course shifted all the men that I chose to date in life and how I found myself valuable. Like I said, I was a nerd, I was into the law.

I was a geek.

I didn't really have a lot of friends. All of a sudden, I was the looker. There was a lot of pressure in that my toenails had to be perfect when I walked into a room or else I would get berated. I didn't even think about my toenails before that, right, you know. I learned to groom myself properly and look certain ways and be certain ways. And when it was just when I disappointed him, I felt like I was ugly.

I read, I have books. I don't even I haven't had sex in two years.

I mean, I'm you could be both. You could be sexy and smart at the same time.

Though.

Yeah, And by the way, as I get older, i'm when I choose to embrace those things. Therefore, me and I come at them with confidence. And it's my own confidence, it's not the confidence that was derived by.

A interpretation of me.

But I will say, all the way up even toil last year, I'm I was working non stop last year, everybody wanted.

To book a ditty victim.

And I'm not allowed to say things like that, because I should be grateful that I got opportunities to sing again, to be on TV shows again, that neck works grace me with their presence, But they really wanted to push that diddy victim shit.

And then there were some that I.

Openly and honestly like felt and trusted. There's one coming out that I felt safe with and trusted, and in that scenario, they got me. On the indictment day on camera, I met the man on camera and I learned of his indictment on in front of the world.

I haven't had.

A moment to form myself off of a camera, and so long I don't. Sometimes when I'm not on a camera, I don't really know what the fuck life is.

My dogs and one of them just passed sadly.

Can I tell you something that you just said that I wish I could turn my camera because I literally have two dogs laying right behind me right now.

I love it.

I feel like we're the same heart. They're all rescues. I have three purebread rescues, so.

They have a rescue too. He's still alive.

I lost a Pomeranian a couple of years ago. It was like the worst heartbreak of my entire life. He was twelve years old. I still haven't recovered. Then I've got a German Shepherd rescue, I've got a cattle dog rescue, and then I've got like a little pit bull mix somewhere around here.

Rescue.

So I have dogs and I read books all the time and I'm a huge nerd.

So Amy said that we would get along fantastically, you know what I said.

I was like, I was like, she's a housewife. I don't know.

She's like, no, she's smart, she's savvy, like blah blah blah. And then I was like, I saw she sent me your picture, and I'm like, she's beautiful. So now you're gonna have two white bitches talking about a case where there have been implications that there are racially charged situations occurring by whoever the fuck is race baiting in that situation. And like, for me, I was like, optics wise, don't

But as I go episode through episode.

And meet new people along the journey, and some like you, I'm just absolutely falling in love with. I think as I go further in it, I'm learning. I'm learning more about why this is, this project has the purpose that I was told it would have.

Well, I think from my perspective looking at you in the way that you speak about it, you know when I when I talk about it with my husband and we do it. It's just straight from a legal perspective. And it's very linear because I only I don't know him, I don't have personal experience.

All the podcasts are linear, and this is the only one offering something different exactly.

And I think maybe and I understand you not wanting to go into it, not wanting to talk about it, trying to protect yourself, protect your emotions.

And contracts and everything. I have so much fucking pressure on my shoulders and I have other jobs that I'm not doing. I mean fashion, Noah has not seen a post in a few weeks.

I'm gonna get fires a brand ambassador.

Miss you got to get your outfits together, get your content together. What do you want.

Looking at this many papers of notes, analyzing testimony and figuring out how everything works.

I know I do the same thing. I spend so much time doing legal research. It's insane, but I love it like I enjoy it.

Do you enjoy it? Because I enjoy it? That's how I know I'm a huge nerd.

When the narrative started to shift in regards to where Puff's behavior is starting to shift into other areas besides these you know, dramatic events, you know, I'm getting a little it's getting a little more personal, little more upsetting, and.

I just the the I can't.

I don't know why I had to have my life intersect with his. I think everybody that has ever been close enough with him that you know, when they were criticizing her, when Brian was saying, oh, you said you love him in this text, I was like, I've.

Told Puff I love him before.

Yeah, we all loved him, and yet we were all traumatized by him, and yet we all found ourselves.

I finished a TV show that did a number.

On me last year, and I walked out and called my agent and I was like, days like this I literally miss Puff because he would have never allowed any of these fucking ignorant ass people that are younger than me professionalist fuck letting stupid ship fly on set, not following HR policies like it was a hot fucking mess of debacley going on and not even like properly produced, if that's what y'all are trying to do.

Messy as fuck.

Yeah, Puff would have had put everybody's ass would have been in line, everybody, he would have been scared, everybody would have had their get right on, and nobody would have ever come to set with sleep in their eyes. Half the fucking cast had crust in their eyes. And for me, I was just like the discipline that I

In front of me.

Everything was always had to be so perfect with him that I'm so disciplined that even on sets nowadays, the whole cast had The commentary they had about me when they didn't know me.

Was She's always so she was always just so put together.

She always just like she comes down in the morning, it's like, girl, we're all in pj's, Like you're in an outfit with your hair done and your makeup on. Yeah, we're literally filming a TV show that lasts for like two weeks. Can none of you guys, I didn't even hear a shower go off this morning.

None of you are even washed. Like, I don't understand that.

Thank you.

If that's why you dislike me, thank you.

That's a compliment that to the type of discipline that PUFF put me under. However, what I'm learning is maybe that side of me is also a little unhealthy because I am constant in that presentation mode and everything that I do in life until I go to sleep that I don't necessarily you know. Fuck, the one fucking time that I was like, oh and I was, I did not look like the pictures. I'll stay I'll say that

Show on the fucking Earth, to the podcast. Now.

I don't know, Alane, that I haven't entered. I've literally done all of it really well and have platinum albums.

Yeah, but what sucks, as you're saying, I google you, which I've never done. But if I google you right now, the fat photos are gonna shut up.

You'll get fat photos, you'll get Trump Junior, you'll get poly d and you'll get puff every fucking man or ugly time. And by the way, there's not several fat photos. There's that one whole selection of that one moment in time.

But that one time period, a one isolated event, and that's all that's out there.

One isolated event is now summarized me and every and do you know like what that does to someone that's been trained by Puff. It's like you might as well just kill yourself. You just fucking lost the.

Ball, bitch.

Now it's it's like that's the type of pressure that that we learned as a kid. At one point, my bandmate passed Danity Kine. I had a band with another band made of mine, Shannon. Every day we'd wake up, we're hustling, we're doing this tour, and I'd have to go through all the problems from the show before these need to be set. This guy's fucking up on his job. He's hitting the sound cues late. I need the lighting to come on early on this watching videos, figuring shit out,

Get in the car. She drives while I'm doing all the work.

And at one point she stopped and she was like, we're at a venue and she's touching some brick and she goes, this is the last venue that Kurt Cobain performed in and he signed this brick, Like this is like pretty epic that we're performing here tonight.

I was like, Shannon the shoes.

Name are the shoes on stage right, because last night you were late on matt is this is this, is this is this. And she looked at me and she was like, ohbs, Like for one second, you need to like enjoy life. She's like, we have gone to Starbucks every morning for the past year of building this project.

And you don't even know Carlos.

Who's Carlos theisa.

Yeah, And Carlos' mom works in the deli and her name is Patty and she's really nice. And Carlos has a roommate and this and that and and she just told me this whole thing, and I I realized, Shit, I'm just always like.

This, yeah, fixing.

Yeah, And I realized, like, and Shannon said, we learned that from puff And because Shannon was married prior and she goes back to a you know, bend organ and her husband and a very normal, slow paced life.

Yeah, she could come out of it.

She could come out of it.

And and she she would tell me all the time, like we were taught that you have to work so hard to get to to the top of the mountain when actually you could just casually walk up it at a pretty like decent steady pace that isn't painful, and you can get to the top and have had a pretty good life and enjoyed it too.

You could pick some flowers on the way up.

Pick some flowers smell.

Then you can even pitch a tent and maybe take some photos and walk a little faster the next day. Like it doesn't. We don't have to like be starved, sleepless.

Out stressed to be successful.

I still find a heart and I still see victim aspects in that, even though I know other people feel differently and I have to consider their stories as well.

It's all very complicated and layered.

But at the end, if you were to get charged on everything, I think i'd probably first feel pretty sad for him.

Yeah, you have a level of sympathy in there still.

You know, I said I didn't like earlier on in this call, but I guess if you're telling if we're talking at the end of this and it's looking it's not looking great for him, you know, it's a whole man's life, and he's a very very powerful man that shifted a culture for a very long period of time. But the collateral damage was so deep that for whatever crimes he committed, he does need to be put away.

Yeah, so I I would feel a sorrow for.

What his life will be when he can't be all the things. In all honesty, maybe when you take all of it away, he can just naturally be in a state where he can be who he's maybe always wanted to be. If there is something like that happening deep down, I don't know, but either way, like they'll be that and then they'll be you know, you have to remember, after this is eighty civil suits, and I don't fall

Are you thinking that you'll file a civil suit at some point.

When you're in a situation where there are a lot of victims and you're speaking to authorities you're not allowed

Yeah, so you're saying, you're just hoping that these civil suits are a way for you to learn more about some of them.

Waiting for other people.

I'm not waiting for eighty civil suits. I want to get right to it the second that I can. I just want to understand what what what the information that I was given, I want to understand it.

So for you, it's more of a personal journey of understanding who he is and why he acts the way he does.

Is that I don't I have my I had my personal experience, and I do I have answers to those questions. There's a situation that's still at large, Emily as of today. Let's make a call. Yeah, on possessing people across state lines. Two counts of that is Gesz get guilty on that?

I'm going to say. I'm going to go yes, yeah, Okay.

I'm a yes on that too.

Sex trafficking two counts, two counts of sex trafficking, right or is it rec Yeah, okay, two sex counts of trafficking?

Are you guilty as of today?

I'm going to say guilty, guilty too?

What about on racketeering?

I'm going to see guilty on racketeering. I think that they're called these witnesses.

They're definitely establishing criminal enterprise, and me is testimony. Like you pointed out, we're not talking about girlfriends anymore, so we can't hone in on the whole. Like you know, she was a girlfriend. She was doing it consensually. You know, that's just the way the relationship was. He's kinky, she went along with it. Now we're talking about the way he treated a personal assistant. So that was really compelling testimony as far as the criminal enterprise, So.

Yep, unless there's a bombshelf that comes on Monday, i'd say, right, Mia was the glue that brought it, brought it on home.

Right for now, I don't see a lot of lanes out of.

This I don't either.

The only thing I worried about in the beginning it was jury tampery.

Well, we shall see, right see, if anyone from the jury gives a wink before they give the call, we'll find out in a Netflix documentary twenty years later.

Exactly.

All right, Emily, thank you so much. It's been so great getting to know you.

You're awesome.

You literally make me want to watch The Housewives of OC. This has been fun for me today.

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really fun. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it and I look forward to next time. Yes, okay, thanks all, Thank you. Bye.