Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O day covering the Ditty Trial. Hey everyone, I am so excited to be back with you. I am covering the Didty Trial.
This is TJ and Amy presents me Aubrey O day covering the Didty Trial. I have with me today Doctor Vivianna Coles, who has dedicated her career to helping couples and individuals navigate emotional and physical intimacy challenges since two thousand and three. Now, Viviana, I don't want to come off to psychotic here, but I am a Vivstan I am the biggest fan of Married at First Sight, and I know you are on for six seasons sharing the wealth of information that you have in regards to how
to create successful positive relationships. Specifically, why I really wanted to have you here with me today is this headline making phrase. The freakofs has become a world wide discussed and mostly I notice made fun of topic because likely a lot of people don't fully understand what they are, what they look like, what they mean, what they mean
in positive experiences versus negative environments. I kind of want to just really get inside the freak off no pun intended and start to actually discuss.
What all of the elements are.
And so just to kind of start us out, I'm a sex positive human.
I know you are as well.
And for people that don't necessarily understand the exact definition, it's basically just someone who supports and affirms people's sexual interests, kinks, fetishes, whatever their interests are, with no judgment and of course with consent.
That's the big one.
Yeah, yeah, yes, And with that being said, I want to ask you before we get into breaking down situations in the trial, let's do myth versus reality quick shots real quick, just so we can kind of establish a norm for the audience in regards to some of the behaviors that they're hearing during this trial.
So yeah, just so everybody knows, I'm not professionally or personally associated with any of the parties involved in the trial. But all the information I'm going to be sharing today is from my twenty plus years of working with couples and individuals as a licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified sex therapist. And yes, like Aubrey, I'm definitely sex positive. So we'll be talking about it in that way.
But first and foremost, we have to know about sexual experiences being consensual and they need to be safe and sane. So that's where we're coming from, at least from my standpoint.
Yeah, so, actually, let's go into miss versus reality just a little bit before we get into the details of the trial. Is it true or not that people who enjoy orgies are traumatized?
That is false. There are many many, very you know, functional people who like to explore with others sexual pleasure, sexual desire, and all sorts of kinks in a very safe way that has nothing to do with trauma.
Does group sex mean your excitement about group sex or participation and it mean that you lack morals?
Absolutely not. That is false. For a lot of people who are trying to stay connected with their partners, they want to experience other people in a way that will not mess with their own connection, and having group sex can be one way that they explore that as long as there's lots of conversations going on in a very safe way.
Is kink a result kink or fetish a result of sexual damage or psychological damage as well?
Yeah, it can be. It can always be something that you've adapted from psychological damage. But that is not always the case, so I would say it's.
A maybe okay, and is having different different things we're about to discuss non traditional sex.
Is it emotionally harmful?
It can be emotionally harmful. I wish I could say yes or no, but it can be depending on the actual circumstances for each of the partners. But for most people, exploring in different ways using all sorts of accessories and tools and fantasies can be very healthy.
Okay, So let's actually just dive right into the trial now that we've established some myths versus realities. A lot of people don't necessarily understand the layout of a lot of the freak offs that have been discussed in trials. So what I want you to first kind of explain to people is the difference of voyeurism, or even just I think it could be under the guise of voyeurism, cuck holding.
Can you explain to the audience what cuck hoolding is?
Yes, So, cuck holding is a term that refers to when a partner and enjoys and get sexual gratification from watching or knowing that their partner is experiencing a sexual behavior or sexual pleasure. With someone else outside of their own sexual experience. So they may be in the room, they may be across the country, they may just be getting information via text in between kisses, whatever it is.
And two of those things that you just named actually were what was happening in Diddy's case in regards to being in the realm masturbating during those scenes that he was dictating. Then there also was when he was put on FaceTime. It was discussed in trial to watch or observe something. Now, because you've discussed cuck holding in a sex positive way, I'd like to address it in a coercive, abusive way. When does cuck holding become something that is criminal?
I would say anytime that someone is doing something against their will for fear of harm to themselves or even being threatened their life being threatened, if they feel like there's retaliation that might happen, whether that's real or imagined,
those are things that I think. I'm not an attorney, so I don't know if it's criminal, but I think it's very unhealthy and dysfunctional at the least to want to make someone do something that they don't want to do, especially in a vulnerable and sensitive place like sex.
And all of those things that you have established as part of coercive abuse have been established in this trial through testimony of various people that had sexual experiences with Diddy.
You know, they've alleged that those things have all occurred.
Another term that we've heard discussed, and it's kind of a hot topic, one is I first learned it as golden showers. We're hearing it as urinating. You know, the escorts were told to urinate in Cassie's mouth and at times even for her.
To choke on it.
I do want to kind of point out for people that had such outrage or visceral reactions or even humor humorous reactions to that This is not the first time we have been introduced to this idea. It was talked about during the Tiger Woods cheating scandal. It was talked about during President Trump's alleged encounters in Russia.
It has been talked about on Sex and the City.
I think in like two thousand when the guy from mad Men came on and wanted.
To do it with Carrie, with.
The politician, and she was like loved him, and she thought he were you know, this could be this could be everything. She wanted, but he just had that one little fetish sho kink of wanting to have a golden shower.
I think it was on that episode in the Shower.
As a sex positive person myself, I will I can actually discuss with my inside information from being a bad boy that this. This was a conversation that was had amongst many of the key players that bad Boy, many people that were in positions of authority over me, with a lot of the artists. It was discussed in a
sexy way. It was discussed as like after I, you know, potentially get fillatio, I like to men like to then urinate, and if I can do all of the above on the girl, it's like so hot because I it's this. It's the dynamic that sometimes is very necessary in sexual relationships, the power dynamics, right, Like you know, I know women that like soft, gentle love. I'm hard and aggressive in work every day. When I get into bed, I like to be a little dominated and I like to be
handled in a consensual, non coercive way. But I like to be spanked and I like a little choking sometimes. I have dabbled in the golden shower area, just simply because of hearing all the men and bad Boy discussing it being something that was so hot, and there were some did it with their wives, some did it with the women, they cheated on their wives with whatever. Everybody
kind of got into this discussion. It was the first time I remember really actually hearing the male perspective that it was kind of exciting and interesting and something that's like personal, that's like this secret that seems like not normal that you share with somebody that only you two have together. And I'd like you to kind of get into when it's a sexually positive.
Thing potentially, and when it's a criminal thing.
So it depends on if you're negotiating, whether you're the one that's urinating on your partner or they're urinating on you. Either way, I think it's so important to be able to really reflect on why it is that this is important to you. For some people, and I think this is probably more likely and under these scenarios that you talking about, it's a sign of dominance. It's a sign of almost like ownership or establishing you're my partner and
your mind. And so for a lot of people, that is a really erotic thought to have that sense of dominance and of connection in that way. For some people, you know, they do that with blood bonding with others. There is you know, their species involved with others.
Scat play, Isn't that what that's called.
I have a friend that does it, so I got to learn all about that world. That one's a little much for me. But again, I'm sex positive, so no judgment.
Yeah. Well, and I think for a lot of people who are doing these things as part of their non traditional but more routine sexual play, they've done a lot of the research of how to do these things in a way that isn't going to make somebody extremely ill, and they know how to stop when someone says no, or if even in the middle of playing, if the person says no, it means no and all things need
to end. And unfortunately, with these very random, stranger experiences that some people are experiencing, they can't really trust each other enough to know that they're they're in safe hands.
Yeah, or in like Cassie's case, she's young, she is groomed. And there's a part of the dialogue that I think a lot of people miss that I noticed in the testimony where she said in the beginning days when she would entertain this that when he when he shared with her that he was into this behavior that is, you know, maybe abnormal to most people. She said, when she was first entertaining it, you know that she she wasn't enjoying it.
It doesn't seem like much or ever she was.
She I think she learned to express enjoyment for it in order to get attention and reaction from the person that she loved. But there was an exchange where she said, I didn't want to push back and tell him I didn't like something because I didn't want him to think he was like weird or I was judging something that he likes shared with me than that he likes doing.
That's very personal, and that's very common practice in any sexual relationship.
Yes, it's like people see these isolated stories as oh, this is they see it as all so dark. But imagine being in your bed with somebody that you're falling in love with and they tell you something potentially happened in childhood.
It could have been triggered from any things.
That could just be something fully positive, not rooted in anything traumatic. But either way, the sharing of something so personal from somebody that is so powerful and nobody really knows personally like that. I mean it always there's this through line with Cassie that she's always wanting to just be closer, to just be with him, to just be in his presence, to just get to have more time with him.
And it seems like a lot of his victims share that.
Yeah, a lot of people in sexual relationships, as they're getting to know each other, as they're getting to understand what feels good and feels pleasurable in healthy relationships, especially in long term, established relationships, they can grow with each other and they can almost initiate different things, and maybe for most long term couples they don't. The way that their sex life looked at the very beginning is very different than twenty thirty years in.
Sure, And there's a through line with him that always exerted extreme power. There's a humiliation tactic behind a lot of his fetishes. Within the testimony that I'm noticing, bodily control, degradation, life threatening fear. There was like the choking element, let's just go to that specifically, that shows a desire to exert control over a life and death moment. In sexual dominance, if you could choke on something you could die. That's a life or death moment. It should be taken seriously
as that. I know that it sounds a bit dramatic or extreme suggest that, but if you choke for too long, you're gone.
Well, and people who are in the BDSM community and who are really researched on these things they do they do like rehearsals. They have communication that makes it to where you're not actually at risk typically for real, real danger. That is not what gets a lot of these people off. It's more about the pleasure that's derived from being vulnerable
with someone. And so the idea of it just being something that you do spontaneously is very reckless for a lot of people to try that in their own bedrooms. Even with something as more commonplace as anal sex, I'm always telling my clients you need to prepare your body for that or you can risk some severe and serious physical harm and potential trauma. So if we're talking about even more.
Which is why I wanted us to have this conversation, because when need to start discussing things like anal sex, like urinating on somebody, these things are kinks.
They're fetishes.
If you're a sex positive person and you're able to be able to have access to information and understand all the ways to properly prepare yourself.
If both you.
And your the people or person that you're engaging in sexual behavior with are all consenting, then understanding how to prep your body and prep the setting enough to understand
where everyone feels safe and good about themselves. Now, with that being said, I wonder on the flip side, because it's obvious that force, coercion, and many other things were being exerted during most of the sexual experiences that the people testifying against Didty are alleging in regards to the coin being flipped and looking at Ditty, now, we obviously have not seen him his side, present his story, or given us any understanding other than they have suggested that
he is a swinger and that these types of behaviors are like how it is in the celebrity world, and it's just an elevated lifestyle and everyone kind of knows what it is. I would suggest that I absolutely disagree with that, and I am somebody who was in that world and came from the regular quote regular world and
lived in that very extreme world. But beyond that, I wonder almost even puff who was once just a regular human like everybody else, and then became as he likes to allegedly be by many people that testified be known as the.
King, the god amongst men.
Did he at some point start potentially in is it possible. Did he started in a sexually positive place, or maybe he was exposed to things in his childhood that made him understand sex in.
A more.
Forward way, but that at some point he just loved the plot.
You know, I can't really speak to that because I don't know anything about him or his childhood, but I can tell you that for a lot of people who are struggling to find healthy ways to express their sexuality in consensual ways, I think the piece that is missing for a lot of them is understanding true empathy and being able to understand what it's like to be the
recipient of some of these actions and caring about their experience. So, if you're out there and you're in a sexual relationship and all you're about is how it feels to you and what works to you, chances are you're not in a very healthy sexual relationship.
And I think the.
Piece that's missing for a lot of people in relationships where they're experiencing repeated coerced, and you know, the piece that's missing is not having the access to education, the planning, the choice and decision making that every sexual experience should have in order to truly be healthy and bonding.
I have a question for you.
Our Diddy's proclivities a little bit more common than people realize, because I at one point was invited in it, just living in LA to a celebrity sex party and we had to dress up and were mass Obviously, I had no desire or intention to have sex there, but I definitely wanted to go assess the scene so I could tell everybody about it later.
Well, shame on you, Aubrey.
That is no.
Viv You just said, we have to give information to the people. They need to know what it looks like and how to keep themselves safe if they choose.
To be in the environment.
So as somebody I signed an NDA, I'm not naming names, but I will say that everybody was consensual.
It was very performative.
There was an actual performance that occurred prior to them opening up the rooms up stairs, and kind of when I observed all of it, I would I've just felt like I didn't understand it, and it didn't make sense to me because I didn't see love in any of it, and I didn't see that any of them knew each other well enough that they had a respect for someone that they were allowing inside of them. I just it
couldn't I couldn't lock into it. And you can't observe for too long in the rooms, they kick you out. They think you're being a little bit strange if you're just watching. Watching was fascinating, but almost fascinating in a way where my soul just felt like hurt, but not judgmental, just hurt that I wish. I wonder why there's something in me that can't just look at sex as sex and just that.
Yeah, I think to answer your question, I think it is a very common thing to have sex parties all over the US and all over the world. The difference is that there are there are rules that people.
Yeah, and specifically in regards to this trial, you can't pay for prostitutes to come have sexual experiences across state lines. These are part of the charges. You cannot pay for any of that. You cannot bring people across state lines. You cannot have situations that are at all even seemingly not consensual. No force or coercion can ever be used in any of those types of situations. Those are all unhealthy and if it proven criminal.
And sometimes they won't allow any excessive use of drugs or alcohol. They don't want anyone being able to forfeit their ability to consent even halfway through the party. Certainly there are no phones filming recordings involved.
You think in origin is as much fun without a drink? I think if I had a margarita would be more fun than sober.
Have you ever had one?
Well?
You do you mind saying if you.
Have or not?
Or you're not going there with it. I'm so curious. I'm such a fan of you. I just want to know how you get down viv.
Well, like, let me tell you. I think it's I think the way that I've heard that some of these parties go down, the attention to detail and the care that the organizers put into it for everyone to have a really positive experience. I can see why people really enjoy these parties. And I will or will not confirm or deny if I've ever been to one or seen one.
Oh man, you've definitely seen one. I can read it from your face. For those that you can't see this beautiful face in front of me, She's definitely seen what I'm calling it right now, allegedly. Okay, so potentially, I guess I think the best place we can leave this off at is it's kind of ingrained in women, at least in my experience, that potentially, in order to keep a man happy in long term relationships, especially with very
powerful men that I've access to anything and everything. I've dated a few of those, a good amount of those in my life, there is maybe potentially this feeling that you have to up the ante. I'm sure it happens just in everyday life and everyday relationships that aren't living at such extremes like in the celebrity world, but.
This idea that you kind of have to up the anti.
I mean, I was told by my mom at a very young age, learn how to give a good blowjob. If you ever want a husband, you're not gonna get one if you don't give them head. A lot of men just really prefer head over having sex, and so I try to tell girls all the time when they're like, oh, I don't give blowjobs, I don't like it. I sometimes like have this little fear in my heart, like, baby girl, learn how to like it, or your man's gonna potentially
want it from somewhere else. And I ask a lot of men in my life, do you guys prefer sex or blowjobs? I hear blowjobs more than sex a good amount of the time.
And I think a lot of women feel the same way. Where they love to you know, they prefer being each now you go down on them.
Yeah, is there a pressure to up the anti when you're in situations like as a.
Woman, if you're wanting to keep your man.
I think we should definitely establish this for all women out there. What is a reason why upping the anti would not be a way to keep the man?
So, anytime you're in a long term relationship and you want it to be sexually satisfying for the long term, you really want to have a lot of chicks up your sleeve. But none of those have to be extremely painful, physically uncomfortable, potentially morally disgusting to you.
Or humiliating or humiliating, or something that you feel like you have to really kind of disassociate in order to be a part of.
These are all signs that it's not the right thing for you, and it could be that it's not the
right relationship for you. But being able to say and know what you want and being able to communicate what you do want and what you don't want is always going to be a great skill across the board in any of dynamic And if you're thinking that you keep having to up the anti at the anti, it might be time for you to see a sex therapist that can help you with the relationship stuff, because dissatisfaction in the bedroom can obviously lead to lots of issues outside
of the bedroom. But when it can come to a place where you're feeling like you might be being used, being abused, being coerced, being even just harmed in any way, it's not a good sign. It's a sign that something is really wrong and you should listen to your gut. You know, there's people out there that call it fem tuition and you should definitely be listening to that.
And also just to clarify as well, you know, this is not just for women. This is also for men. There are relationships across the board in every category where there is consent and coercive situations occurring, and most of all, you should in my opinion, and I've been somebody who hasn't hasn't utilized my.
Sexual toolbox to.
Attract more love my way from somebody that I wanted or did love. It doesn't age well. I don't suggest it, and if you've done it, don't beat yourself up about it.
Let it go.
But understand what part of you desired that behavior and correct it and throw it out. Get into therapy right now if you don't know how to do that. If therapy isn't available, we have such great access to people like viv.
The Internet, this podcast in general.
I mean, you can listen to many different things that are for free, that cost you nothing, that can help advise you as to what may be going on in regards to why you're wanting to utilize those parts of yourself. But sex is fun. Being sex positive is great. It doesn't always have to imply any type of trauma or any type of instability. It can come from it. It doesn't have to come from it. It's a place that is healthy and even can be driven in those spaces excitement, ecstasy, happiness.
Without drugs, and all of the above.
But if you're ever in any of those situations and you don't want them, or you're only there because you think that as as somebody that's wanting to attract someone else.
You're needing to up the ante.
You got to get out of that, and you got to get away from that because there is no anti you will ever be able to up that will give them enough happiness to stay with you. As we have seen with Cassie and many people that have taken the stand and alleged abuse, this man didn't seem to be happy with any of them in any long term situation.
It is an endless road.
It does not lead you anywhere good, and you would be better off at stopping jumping off and hitchhike yourself back to a place where you can start over and create the proper boundaries in your sexual life and your sexual thoughts and mentality, which can be as freaky as you want, but just make sure that it's consensual and not just consensual with the partner, but consensual with yourself,
your mind, your boundaries, your alignment for yourself. Make sure that all parts of you, your soul, your mind, your spirit are consenting in the behaviors that you participate in as well.
Have you ever been Pete on, Viv, just say it yes or no, click fire.
My husband and nice shower together sometimes, so yeah, it happens.
Exactly in the shower. It's not that crazy. I just I was like, this is cool. Whatever I like it, if you like it, And it was. We shared a moment, we laughed about it. It was great. The gag is who it was.
But we won't get into that because I don't want to take down any more powerful big men.
But Viv, you are so amazing.
Literally, it's been my dream in life to go on married at First Sight when I've done with whatever this stupid fame world is that I exist in.
I've always wanted to just be.
A regular person that goes to my local office and applies for married at First Site, so that a group of very capable therapists could find somebody that could handle the crazyness that is me. But I appreciate how many relationships that you've helped, how positive you are about about sexual behavior and consenting relationships, and how much work you put into bringing people together and teaching people how to connect in positive ways. So thank you so much for spending this time with me today.
Thank you so much, Abrey. I love the insights that you're sharing and I hope that they connect with the people who need to hear them. And for all of you survivors out there, just no I've seen firsthand in the work that I do with people they can get to a much better and healthier place when it comes to both relationships and sexuality.
So you've got that, Thank you, doctor Bavianna Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O Day ring that did he trial