Welcome to the Real Photo Show. My guest today is artist Shen Wei, who joins me to talk about his book A Season Particular, published by TBW Books. We will talk about Shen's mixing of body and flora as representative of his own cultural identity and exploration of desire and intimacy. Shen and I discussed the process of editing and making this book with Paul Cheek, as well as what Chen had learned when he worked with Leslie A. Martin on his first monograph, Chinese Sentiment, published by Charles Lane Press. We also talk about Shen's suggested assignment in the Photographer's Playbook, published by Aperture, which involves making self portraits when you stay in a hotel. But before we get to that, this podcast is sponsored by the Charcoal Book Club. Begin building your dream photo book library today@charchbookclub.com shipping in January is Anima by Andre Principe and I'll post a reel about it as soon as I receive the book, but I'll read you a description from charcoalbookclub.com a myth is a story from the time when men and animals had no difference. To live in a shared land with other species with whom we cannot communicate is the most tragic, the most offensive fault to the human heart and soul. Myths refuse to accept that condition as original. Andre Principe's Anima Encounters with Wild Animals in Portugal is in line with those myths. So again, as soon as I receive that book, I'll share a reel on Instagram at Real Photoshow. Alright, so my conversation with Shenwei is fantastic and his ideas about portraiture and self portraiture and how we consider nudity in photography is really quite evolved and I loved talking about it with him. So thank you everyone. Happy New Year. Enjoy the show and we will talk soon. Well, hi Shen, thank you for joining me.
Thank you for having me. So we are here to talk about your book, A Season Particular, published by tbw. Hi tbw. And you got to work with Paul Sheik. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was very exciting journey working with tpw. I definitely want to talk about that, but before we do, why don't you tell everyone listening a little bit about yourself.
Hello, my name is Shen Wei and I was born and raised in Shanghai, China. I'm an artist currently living in New York City. My journey in art began actually in a quite young age as my. Oh, can you hear my dog just walking? Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, we love dogs on the show. But feel free to keep coming. Yeah, yeah. So my journey, your journey, you say?
My journey in art began at a very young age. My parents enrolled me into art Schools like art classes when I was around like 7 or 8 years old. And that continued throughout my high school and eventually I moved to the States to pursue college and later graduate school, both in art school. Did I read you started out as a graphic designer?
Yes, I had a couple years college in Shanghai studying graphic design. And then I decided and I worked in advertising for a few years and then I decided I wanted to become a painter. And then that's when I decided maybe I'd like to study abroad. So I went to Minneapolis College of Art Design and initially want to pursue a painting major. But then I discovered photography. I took two foundation class. Photo one, photo two. And then the rest is history. You know, I totally fell in love with the medium.
It's interesting that you. I didn't know painting came first. Well, graphic design, then painting. Because, you know, when I look at your painting, there's so much similarity in terms of what interests you. Absolutely.
Yes. I was doing a lot of paintings before photography and I actually never really touched a camera before I moved to the States. Yes, I mean, maybe like a Kodak incident camera. That's maybe the only thing I have used before I moved to the States in 2000. It wasn't. It wasn't a culture in my family. And when I grew up, we didn't really have camera around the house and we didn't really document everyday life. I think the only few. So as a result, I have actually very few photos of myself from childhood. Most just snapshots from like a family wedding. Often, you know, that's when we take pictures. So when I was in Minneapolis for the first semester, I remember myself went to the Minneapolis Institute of Art, which is right next to mcat. It was an amazing moment because I have never actually been to a museum at that point. And I was just astonished how amazing it is. You know, just seeing names, seeing paintings I usually only see from tiny square, often black and white images in my Chinese art history book. And all of a sudden they were in front of me. And I remember there was a show of Monet. Monet's the Haystache.
Oh, haystacks.
The Haystacks, yes. And I have known this work for a while and of course just by reading it, but just seeing them in person, it was quite an emotional moment for me. And then of course I went to the library in the school and I discovered this whole, you know, I don't know, tin shelf of photo books and just realize how I need to catch up so much as an art student from a background That I feel like I actually unknown. I don't know anything about art. So that was a really thrilling few years in the graduate school. I feel like I'm playing catch up. Not only the art world, but also pop culture, because I grew up in China, so I mean, I grew up in China in the 80s 90s, you know, now it's a different story. But at the time, you know, there's no Internet, there's very minimal information from the west and mostly just movies and maybe music. Maybe I only knew Michael Jackson, maybe Madonna. So very few western influence at a time. And just all of a sudden, you know, in this sort of living another, another world, a lot of things need to catch up.
And you go from Minneapolis to the School of Visual Arts, New York. Yes, yes, that was my goal, to move to New York. Yes. Even. I mean, I almost immediately moved to New York after, after graduation because I had visited New York before that. So I knew that was the city. This is the city I want to live in and I want to study in New York. I wanted to study in the environment of art world. And that was the goal. And was that with the photo video related arts program under Charles? Charles, yes.
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Charles, hi. Yes, if you're listening, hi, Charlie. Yes, that's right, Charlie. So that's, that's quite, that is quite an impressive journey because not only have you caught up, but your work is in museums and you're being written about a lot. I mean, you're in the Museum of Modern Art and you've been in every publication I could think of. Art News, Aperture, New Yorker, Guardian, L.A. times, New York Times. I mean, just everything. Thank you.
And you have some. I mean, this isn't your first book, right? No, no, this is my third book. Yeah, My first book, Chinese Sentiment, was published by Charles Lin Press, I think around 2010. And I have a second book with Almost Naked was published by Press. Yeah. So this would be my third book. So why don't we. I think we can start talking about the book. Yeah.
And I. And I think from that we can get into other conversations because there is clearly a through line that runs through your work in investigating, exploring the human body, the human form and nature. You know, I find that in a number of your projects, a number of your works. But let's, let's start with the book, Aziz in particular. Can I ask you about that title?
The title actually, the series actually went through numerous working titles. This series is probably one of my most kind of abstract series in the past, I think. I had a very clear narrative in my work, and so it was my intention to really do something different. So the result is, it's so hard to actually put a title on something that's kind of abstract. So ultimately, a final title was inspired by one of my solo shows in Paris in 2022. It has a French name, La Czanne Particulaire. So I just love this title. It just sounds very romantic and abstract, too. And so I changed the plural from the seasons to a season because I think the project. Well, I want to sort of capture and condense all the energy from the project into a brief period of time. So just one season. And I enjoy having abstract titles that don't really overly describe the work. And I don't like to direct the audience perspective when they read the title, and so they know exactly what the work is about.
And so as you work your way through the book, the images alternate between details of the body, details of the human form and flowers or trees and branches and leaves. I mean, I think it's mostly even flowers on the trees. But what is the relationship that you clearly are very interested in in the human body and the idea of flowers and flora?
Yes. I think probably both are quite influenced by my upbringing because I grew up in China, and body is something. We never really talk about it. At least when I. When I grew up, it's something. It's something of a taboo, being naked and talk about sexual. Talk about sexuality, especially, I think, for men, because I grew up in a culture that's ultra masculine. So men's not supposed to be sensitive, not supposed to be talk about feelings. And also, I grew up in Shanghai. There's not many trees, so I didn't grow up near nature. So when I moved to the States and when I started studying art, and so somehow those things just naturally appear in my work. I just have a craving to explore, since I hadn't explored for a long time. For this particular series, I actually started photographing body. And I haven't photographed anyone else but myself for a long time.
That's right. Yeah. I should make that clear. It's all been very much self portraiture.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think from probably 2009 to around 2019, for 10 years, I didn't really photograph anyone else. So I wanted to do a project that I can kind of reconnect with people. So I actually started to photograph body first. I just asked mostly people who I know because as you can see, the work, my lens is. It's very close to the subject yes, but I already knew somehow I want to weave in the botanical elements because body and the nature is so much of two most important subject in my work. But during the COVID years, I couldn't photograph anyone except myself. So I spent a lot of time actually in nature, especially during the blooming season in New York, in Central park, all the time. It was stunningly beautiful and also incredibly quiet in a park. So I took a lot of pictures of the flowers during the blooming season. I feel like especially the blooming flower somehow quite connected to the mood I had at the time. And when I was photographing, because I photographed the body first, then I stopped because I couldn't during COVID And when I was photographing the plant and the flowers, in my head, I was thinking about the bodies I have done. And for me, the texture of skin, petals and the leaves are quite similar. You know, when you touch it, there's a similar kind of feel. And sometimes I think they even share a similar scent, which I somehow want to also transcend that through photography and especially with the method. That's why with the method, I like to get so close to the skin and the flower and the petal and to see the texture and to make the audience really be almost involved in what I was involving and to smell the scent.
That's so interesting. Yeah. You know, if anyone's ever held up, let's say a rose petal or a flower petal to light, you can actually see like a skin, like texture and even maybe veins running through it. Looks like veins running through it. And you do get that close to the skin and all the body parts. And you said that you photographed the body first and then did the flowers and the plants. What I find interesting about the way you connected them is even though one is very much studio and the other is outdoors in the world, you made them all feel very much like they're in the studio. They're shallow, depth of field, abstracted backgrounds, beautiful lighting. They all have a studio quality lighting about them. And. And I think it very much connects the work just visually. And then what you just mentioned also is very connected. There is a real vulnerability to the skin and the flower.
Right. They're both kind of delicate in their own way. And I think that vulnerability, of course, is something that interests you, as you said, because of the way you were raised in China, because of the culture you grew up in in China. Right. The idea of being able to express vulnerability. In fact, I read or heard you say that one of your most inspired or inspiring Photos was the one I believe you made of yourself nude in China behind a red covered table, a red covered altar of some sort?
Oh, yes, yes. Broken sleep. Part of broken sleep. Sorry, I'm not describing it. Well, yeah, it was a picture I made in a Beijing opera theater. Oh, that's it.
In China. Yeah, it was, yes. It's just that picture is quite late in the series. I think it's around 2018, something like that. And yeah, I was traveling around in China, which I think most of my self portraits were made during traveling. I travel quite a lot all over the world and whenever I go, I bring my camera. I have a quite light gear set for my self portrait. So it's very convenient for me to, to really set up anywhere to make a self portrait.
How risky is it to photograph yourself unclothed in China in a public space? Or are these places where you're getting permission? No, I didn't have permission, but I always been very careful just knowing the surrounding, knowing the environment, where I am. And in this particular picture I was in the abandoned theater. Oh, okay. So there's not many people around me.
You know, so, you know, I said nudity and unclothed. But what I really love about the way you speak about the human form, the human body, you don't refer to it as nude or naked. You refer to it as a kind of state of being mentally and emotionally free.
Right? Yes, definitely. I, you know, I never really, I mean, after a while I don't think about myself being naked anymore. You know, even though I was making a picture completely naked in nature or in an environment, for me it's just a picture of a state of mind. It's a documentation of where I am and how I feel at a time. But also ultimately, I hope the self portrait, my self portraits, it doesn't feel like it's all about me. And I wanted to really present in universal idea.
I think that, I think that's accurate because I don't. Honestly, looking at your work, I wasn't sure all the time which was purely self portrait and which was not. So.
Oh, that's great because often I don't even. I don't, I think often I don't even think I was entirely me. When I'm photographing myself, there's certainly, I mean, the self. When people ask me what the self portrait work is about and it increasingly become more and more difficult because up until now it has already been a 20 year project. I started in 2004 with a series of black white self portraits. And then gradually moving to color. And I would say each year I feel like I'm focusing on different things because, you know, things happen when you growing up and aging and aging become sort of a subject and relationships for sure. And just discovering many side of the world. And also, of course, myself. So it is a very complicated series overall. And it touch on so many things. I think each five years I look back the older images, I see things I haven't noticed myself.
That is quite sort of a document of yourself, right. To be photographing yourself and others over a period of 20 years in the manner that you do. Because you really are examining lines and wrinkles and pores and I mean everything. Yeah. And I travel. I find travel is extremely important in this body work. It's almost like a travelogue for myself. I can see what year, where I was, what hotel room I was in and. Yeah.
Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah. Is this in a season particular? I think. And you correct me if I'm wrong, this is also. Some of the photos you made in this book are the most intimate of the photos you've made in terms of intimacy between people. The idea of maybe a state of arousal and desire is more maybe present in this book than your other previous work.
Yes, absolutely. Yes. It happened naturally. I didn't really. It wasn't like any of my series. It always started with an exploration. I have a whole folder where I write down all my ideas. And often in one day, if I'm sitting on a train, I have 10 ideas come out of me. And then I will look through the ideas and thinking which one I really feel liking doing it, exploring it. So all of my project really starting with a period of exploration. Sometimes I explore several projects at once and then sometimes one of them just become more interesting. And so ASIS in particular is really come out of many, many ideas I had. And I never really know what direction I will go when I first started. But once it goes there, I'm kind of just following my instinct.
I think it would be fair to say there is a connection between the sexual nature of flowers and the sexual nature of human beings in this book. Right? Oh, yeah. The other aspect of this book that we haven't spoken about yet is there's no text in the book. Yeah. Talk about that.
Well, I think I definitely had a conversation with Paul Sheikh about text. I think in the beginning we were thinking about names who will write about it. Or maybe I'm writing something myself. I had a text for both of my last two books. In fact, my first book, Chinese Sentiment, had Peter Hassler write about Forward. And the second book, Almost Naked, I wrote and afterward myself. But over time I started thinking about maybe it is not necessary to have text. I like the idea of readers or viewers open a book without any kind of introduction or inference from the author and the artist and the publisher. So that allowed them to interpret the work entirely on their own. And I find that approach quite appealing, actually. So in this book we both decided maybe because the work is so abstract and so intimate, I don't think it's necessary to actually talk about the work. We even decided not to have the title.
That's right. It's not on the COVID Right, right, right, yes. I mean, there's no individual. Individual title for the work. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yes, yes, that's right. So it just. Yeah, the book have a title, but the. Just image. Yeah, yeah. Because on your website there's almost like a catalog title to the work. Yes, yes. So I can remember what image is.
That's right, exactly, exactly. I recognized it, the numbering. Yeah, yeah. And the book itself is beautifully printed. There's a large tipped in image on the front of the sort of the nape of the neck and the collarbone area of the chest. And then there's a beautiful plant sort of imprinted into the back cover of the book, which of course it bookends the actual work that's in the book, which is it's made so lovely in terms of then working with Paul at tbw. What was that process like? And you've mentioned this is your third book. How has the collaborative experience been like?
Oh, it was great. I mean, I always admired TBW's book and well, my desire to work with Poshee grew even stronger after hearing his interview with Sasha Wolf. Oh, nice. On the photo work podcast. Yeah.
And I just loved the interview and I just really wanted to work with him and work with tpw. Yes. So I actually I made a book down me and I also quite understand the book is quite explicit and maybe challenging to find someone. And so I showed the book market first to Vince Zeleti and he immediately suggested tbw. Oh, that's great.
Yeah. And he introduced me to Paul and Paul expressed interest in the book right away. So the reference is history. And working with TBW was so seamless and stress free. Yeah, it was quite smooth. We, you know, right off the bat we discuss the editing and go through, you know, all the usual, the paper selection and the COVID What about the. Way the photos Are sort of laid out as spreads in terms of different sizes and all.
When I sent in my maquette and it was quite. It was quite similar to the way you see it in the final. Oh, that's great. Yes. And Paul loved the idea how I laid my pictures in this way. But we still did. We still spent some time to rearrange some of them, adding subtract pictures and. Yeah, so it was pretty close to what I imagined. Envisioned from the beginning. Yeah. I'd like to get back to your early experience and work in painting. Are you still painting?
Oh, yeah, yeah. I actually started painting again very seriously. Oh, that's great. Yes. From I think last year, maybe even the year before I started to painting again. And my first round of painting is very much close to my portrait work and. And in a theme of cell poetry with plants. I also. During the COVID I developed a new hobby of house planning. So my first round of sel portrait is very much about me and my plants. And I had a show last year with my Swiss gallery foreign agent. Yeah.
Congratulations. My first painting show in my career is called My Garden. I was just gonna say. You were tending to your garden. Yes. So yes, painting has become my new. My new. How to say. Well, I sort of. I still. I'm not. People always say are you transition to become a painter? But I would think I'm extending my repertoire. I think if you look at your video work, your works on paper, your painting and your photography, you would easily qualify as a mixed media artist.
Yes, I would very much like seeing that way. And definitely in the future I would like to make more installations and use all mediums I like to use. That's definitely one of my goal.
Do you see an interpretive. Interpret a different interpretation of how you handle or treat the human form and combining it with the idea of nature and flowers and yourself as self portraiture. I know there's actually. Clearly there's a visual difference, but is there a conceptual difference when you move between media or do you see it all as very connected?
Oh, I see them very much connected for me actually, I don't really overthink about it. It just sort of naturally come out of me. When I started painting, it was not even. I don't even have to debate where I'm going to paint. What I'm going to paint is going to become. Paint is going to become some self portraits and the plants and Although now I'm sort of move on from self portraits, as you can see from a season particular. But I feel like Even though I'm not painting myself, I'm painting a flower, I'm still in it, you know, the emotion has come out of me.
Absolutely. And I think that reinforces the idea that you are a multimedia mixed media artist. And I could see. I could see selections from all your bodies of work sort of being put together in a show. Being put together in a book.
Yeah, I mean, I am currently editing my own self portrait book. And initially the self portrait book is only my self portraits. But I have a new revelation that now I decided to really put everything into one book. My Between Blossom series, which is all plants and architecture elements and Broken Sleeve is entirely different concept, but I think they're so much connected and they should be just in one book. So that's what I'm doing right now.
Yeah. Like I said, I could easily see that happening. Yeah. Maybe now I can put some pinch in the book too.
That's right, absolutely. I also wanted to ask you about your contribution to the photographer's playbook, which is very much connected to portraiture and self portraiture. In that book you suggest as an assignment, as an exercise to photograph yourself in a hotel room. Because you describe that space as contemplative. You describe that space as self reflective and immersive. And just on a side note, in the back of my mind, it hit me humorously when I'm in a hotel room, I'm usually with my children and it's not so self reflective. But I understand what you're saying. I've also traveled alone and it really is that kind of space where you can sort of really hear the voice in your head, you know, when you are alone and away from friends, family, loved ones, all those things. So it is a very contemplative space. Do you want to talk about that some more?
Oh, yes. It's also. Also unfamiliar space. I never have urge to make self portrait in my own bedroom because I just know everything about this room is too familiar and I know what have happened in the room. And somehow hotel room is such a weird space where there's so many stories in it that you did not know and you don't know. And it's somehow mysterious and also depends on where you are. They look different. They imbue some kind of a cultural influence. That's right.
And so it's always interesting to me to kind of making work in the hotel rooms. And I love travel and I travel quite a lot. And one of my ritual upon arriving at a hotel room is to set up my camera on the Tripod right away. So no matter I stay for one day or 10 days, the camera is on the tripod. So that way when inspiration strikes, I'm ready to dive into the work immediately. And sometimes I feel like if nothing's ready, the moment kind of will just fade it, you know, if I'm not acting on it. Yeah. So that's kind of one of my tricks to get myself working in the hotel rooms.
Yeah, yeah. It's a really great suggestion because the other thing about if you are traveling alone and you're in that hotel room, you're not in that moment performing for anyone. You're not putting on certain airs for anyone. It's very interesting. It is a kind of, in some ways a more true version of yourself at times.
Yes. I mean, even when you travel, even when you travel with someone else, you know, it can be also quite interesting to photograph because, you know, when you with whenever, your family, your lover, your spouse, when you're in your own bedroom, your own comfortable environment, it is very different when you go into this different space. Yeah. I had to travel with my niece and nephew too when they were younger, so I actually did some portraiture with them. Oh, wow.
Yeah, so very different kind. Yes, yes. You know, I kind of adopt the environment and the mood of the moment. Yeah. I should have mentioned, of course, the Photographer's Playbook was edited by Jason Fulford and Gregory Halpern, published by Aperture. You had mentioned in something I read or an interview you had that you got to work with Leslie Martin. What work was that that you worked with Leslie on?
Oh, I worked a couple projects. Oh. First of all, Leslie Martin edited my first book, Chinese Sentiment. Oh, okay.
It was such a learning experience. I think we spent quite a few months. We'll meet weekly and she will look at, you know, hundreds of pictures I made. And yeah, I'm just standing there listening and learning how she put my whole, you know, messy pictures together into this amazing cpu. Yeah, I also learned, I really learned how to editing work from her, that firsthand experience. I also have to credit her. She's the one actually told me, why don't you thinking all your projects as a whole big series. So it was really a life changing meeting with her to really think that way because I think sometimes when. When I think my education is so much in a very. I don't know if I describe right. It's a very kind of American art school way of photography education is everything's bi serious. You know what I mean? When you go to school is that this is one series. That's one series. And so I never. I have not really thinking about all my work as a whole until quite recently. And it was really a breakthrough for me to not having that limitation to thinking work has to belong certain genre or series. They can be really just be all one.
Yes, yes, yes. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, Yeah, I can imagine that being a real learning experience. You know, your work has been shown internationally, but you did have a show at the power station of art in Shanghai, China. Did that hold special resonance for you?
Yes. I mean, having show in my hometown is always quite special. So especially I think sentimentally my family can see what. What I'm doing. I grew up in a quite artistic family. My mother is a designer and I have uncle, aunt, double painter. And they influenced me quite a lot throughout my whole art education. And although sometimes I think they didn't really quite understand what I'm doing because what they do is quite different as what I do. But. But I just love the idea to have my family look at my work throughout the years and tell me how they feel about them.
Yeah. Well, I can imagine any parent and child having a little discomfort and looking at the work of the child in nude self portraiture, right? Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, I think my parents are quite okay with it. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Yes. I remember when I first started the self portrait work and I was very hesitating to tell my mom about it, but she was totally fine with it, which is really surprising to me. And she even kind of gave me a tiny critiques once in a while.
Nice. Yes. Very useful critique. Yeah. Are there any events. Book signings? In terms of book signing, I think it's end of the year, so I think next year, year I'm sure TBW gonna have all these book fairs and. Well, this episode may come out the end of this year, the beginning of next year. I'm actually not 100% sure yet. So we're just. Yeah. So if the events are in 2025, that's. That'll be fantastic.
Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, in 2025 I have quite a few exhibitions that's related to a season in particular. Oh, that's. That's fantastic. Yeah, yeah. In Hong Kong at Flowers Gallery in Hong Kong in March during the Hong Kong Basel, I will actually do a performance and installation in the gallery. What's the performance? Oh, it's. I have a video piece of me cracking sunflower seeds and I think that's my performance. I'm to you Scrambling actually that ideas.
That makes a lot of sense. I mean you handling nature and seeds or plants or something does make a lot of sense.
Well, it's also. It's cracking sunflower seeds. It's kind of a way in Asian culture, in the Chinese culture at least, people have small talking over cracking sunflower seeds and. And it's a human bonding event. And I have a video piece about that, but only by myself, kind of investigating the idea of the discomfort of human bonding. How people actually try to connect each other through different events. Boy, I can hear the little pops of seed shells in like a silent but echoey gallery.
Yeah, it'll be a very. I imagine it will be a small, intimate and interactive performance. And also in May, I will have a solo show in Roman Dull, scary in Amsterdam. That would be a Season particular and we're probably going to have a book event as well. Amazing. And then follow that, we have a show in the White Rabbit Gallery in Australia. So yeah, that's so far next year. I know there is shows that's connected to the book.
That's fantastic. I don't know if I saw it or I missed it. Are you represented by a gallery? Yes, I'm represented by Flowers Gallery in Hong Kong and London and Ron Mandel in Amsterdam. And I also work with a few galleries in Paris, in Taiwan, on the kind of a project artist space.
Oh, so you may not have an answer to this. This last question. All your shows are outside the United States. Your gallery representation is outside the United States. Do you find the perceptions of your work are different outside the United States as opposed to inside the United States? Like, is the audience seem different? Is there a more welcoming sort of culture to the work outside the United States?
Oh, absolutely, I think. Yeah. I think my work. Let me think about how to answer this. That's a tough question. And of course there's no one answer.
I think I definitely notice every time I show in a different country, people react in a little slightly different. For instance, for example, in France, I think French people have so much more accustomed to nudity and they don't seem to be too shocked or shy away from it, you know, and I certainly. I think in East Asian countries people are a little more timid about nude work. I'm not saying they're not look at it or appreciate it, but maybe I think audience sometimes like to have a more private space. Why look at it? Yeah, that's why. Also, I think A Season particular is great to be presented as a book. When I started to show this series I definitely encounter some kind of censorship and maybe even a self censorship because gallery space tend to shy away from certain images that's more explicit than the others. And I notice our audience sometimes look at it, but then walk very fast past certain piece.
So you see a 30 by 40 of an erect penis. They might speed up a little bit. Yes. So I think the book is perfect because people can really engage into this kind of intimate object and they can take their time to look at the work. Right. They don't have to worry about who might be seeing them. Exactly. Yeah. I wasn't sure if that question resonated, but I think it does.
Absolutely. I think it's very interesting for me as an artist to really realize a different culture reacting work in different ways.
I forgot to ask you a question about a season particular. There is one spread where it's somebody laying on their stomach and they're wearing red briefs, red underwear. And next to it in the spread is a red rose as well. And I looked and I thought there's a definitely a connection being made through the use of color. But there's also a little humor to that photo. Does humor play into your work?
Yes, definitely. Especially in my self portraits, I often play humor in it. But my humor may be sometimes quite subtle. Maybe it takes a while to people really get it. And also I think because my cultural background, I have different kind of humor. And Asian Chinese audience may get it, but maybe Western audience wouldn't. And also because I have lived in the States for so long, maybe I sometimes have a cultural reference from the west and you know, the East. The Asian audience may not get it, but it doesn't really matter to me. You know, it's right.
I don't think it's the point of the work, but there's a playfulness in that.
Definitely. And to answer your question about this sequence and a pairing, when I do that, it's all very much by intuition. I don't really overly thinking about which picture goes which. I mean, for the book I definitely spent time to make sure that's the most appealing sequence for me. But in fact, in exhibitions I always like to play them around. The idea of showing a season particular is each show can be a different kind of installation and the work can place differently and they evoke a different kind of emotion and story. So that's really kind of the beauty of that kind of abstract, kind of serious work.
Yeah. Well, congratulations and good luck on the upcoming shows. Thank you very much. Yeah, this has been wonderful. So nice to meet you and get to talk with you. Oh, me too. Yeah. I'm so happy to be part of this podcast. Oh, thank you. All right, bye, everyone. Bye. Reel Photoshow is produced by Me, Me, Michael Chovendalton, music by Matteo Chovendalton and Jim Raimundo. If you like the show, please rate and review with all the stars on your listening platform.