Sarah Silverman

I'm going to get a workout in a little bit with my man Eric Linden, stunt coordinator from The Punisher. He's coming all the way up because we're about to get after it. And when that's done, he asked me in the car, are you going to have my shake ready? And I know what that means. Am I going to have my son warrior?

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You know, I have to say in full disclosure, like I'm an enormous fan of yours. Oh my God. I'm not like... I said a bunch of times I'm not like Walter Cronkite. I don't really do introductions. I don't know how to do that shit. And I want to get to the bottom. I want to kind of talk to you about... Why the fuck I'm doing this in the first place? Why you're doing a podcast? You know, it really hit me. I listened to your podcast the other day when you talked about Dave Chappelle.

I'm really interested in your take on that, what you were saying about it. I think the thing that like really struck me the most is how you talked about is love. The highest thing that R can do is... you know hold a reflection to society make you start asking questions and start generate conversations like this but like why do you feel like you're doing what you're doing right now and has that shifted and is there a palpable shift and can you sort of point to the shift over the years.

Sorry. Well, I mean, the truth of the podcast is the pandemic hit and I was like, I can't do stand up this. I'm going crazy. It became apparent that this was going to be. a while. And so I was like, I'm going to do a podcast. And then I was talking to these guys because I go, you know, I don't have guests on my podcast. Do you need help removing your code?

Fuck you, dude. Look, he's like getting focus on it. The camera's pecker literally got hard at that moment. He's struggling. We're going to get it. Real life. Real life moment. Up my ass with his fucking cell phone because I'm struggling with my fucking sweat. And I'm sweating too.

You want to get something else? You know what I mean? It's okay. Sorry. Please. You don't understand. These guys became my best friends in the 40 minutes before you came. I just did it because I couldn't do stand-up and I was going crazy and I needed... an outlet. And then I, I knew I didn't want guests because I cannot ask people to be on my pod. I just can't do it. And I'm, I was so excited to do yours. I don't want to like put this on. I just.

I wrote a book and they wanted me to get blurbs and I was like, I can't ask anyone to. read a book i just won't do it you know i just made them up i made it it is it is truly the the a hell like another yeah so i so i go well i'm just gonna do like what bill bird is i'm just gonna talk you know and then i go I'd love people to call in and my plan was for it to be silly and dumb and funny. And, but the trajectory of the podcast really is from the callers and it's just become like.

way more serious than I thought, but I'm really interested in it because, I mean, my hero is Mr. Rogers, and I'm interested in... relationship i'm interested in the dynamic between people ego getting involved and every and how that relates to every single thing going on in the world now you know and um so it's been really

I've been enjoying it. It's really interesting. You started out as a... comedian and like, it's like, I'm just wondering about like that shift. I'm trying to look at it for myself too. I was very hardcore. Straight up. But like you have this responsibility. Do you feel like you just have a responsibility to these people? Because people are like talking about really, really deep issues.

and things that are really, really effective. And they're coming to you to have you discuss it for your audience. It's kind of become this very, this community. And the crazy thing is that... didn't occur to me because I'm not worldly. I've been everywhere in America because of touring, but I haven't been to a lot of countries. So many people call from other countries.

And it's just so interesting to me. I'm like, oh, this is in England? We had a caller from Iran, like a gay guy who cannot be gay. A woman comic, like the only woman comic in Iran is like going to prison for a joke for two years. She just got out of 25 days of solitary confinement. It's like, it's crazy over there. But I also see so many. Now I'm changing this. This is what I do. I go like a million places. But Iran is so interesting because if you look up, if you Google pictures of Iran.

I've said it a lot. I think I'm saying it right. If you look at Google pictures of it in like the 70s, it's like women in bikinis in a total hippie culture. Like religion happens to that. Extremism happens to them. And we think it can't happen here and it's happening. You know, the, you know, the fringes, the fundamentalists are fucking bananas and always hate women.

To me, it's a difference between the liars and the lied to. And I think there are a lot of people who are very malleable because they're fear-based. And that makes them very easy to manipulate.

There are politicians and billionaires taking advantage of that. I do think also the right and the left are... are mirroring each other in lots of ways that I see. I mean, I'm a far left. I always think of myself as a far left person. And yet I see like a real elite is an elitism.

E-ness. I think it's a leadiness where I wish instead of going, you said the wrong pronoun or you said i mean i'm so excited to to take on people's pronouns and still i fuck it up and it's a learning curve and anyone who's a they them in my life i'll go well he oh fuck fuck and they they'll go

Don't worry about it. You're trying. It's like going to France. They just want you to try to speak French and then they'll speak English. But to just go, you said the wrong thing or you're, we don't say that now. We say this. is so elitist when you can go join us we're doing something cool and you could be a part of it yeah yeah and the right kind of does that well in you know however you know but

Well, I don't know why the left doesn't do that. I don't know why they're so fucking arrogant. And I say them. I'm in it, but I look around and I go like, stop being cunts. We want people to, you know. A lot of right wing pundits are people who had like failed comedy careers or failed like pilots. It's crazy. And, or there are comedians that go that direction.

And I'm not saying they're failures. What I'm saying is all of us in this industry, it's about ego and it's mostly not healthy. Yearning for some bit of attention. Wanting strangers to... love us and um they're no different but they went towards the love trump went towards love he was a democrat he gave him hillary

That's what Hitler did. Yeah, he was an artist. He was a fucking DJ. Well, that's when we were hanging out and someone said, well, you know, Kanye is bipolar. And I understand that. And I've been friendly with Kanye. I mean, the last time I... talked on the phone with Chappelle. It was with Kanye, both of them on the phone. So it's very odd to be in this position. But he goes, well, but he has mental health issues. So did Hitler.

Right? I mean, Hitler wasn't sane. It doesn't mean you're not incredibly influential and powerful. As a matter of fact, with Trump, with so many billionaires and trillionaires, they got... successful because they're filling this unfillable hole for sure and it it's it's a real recipe for success a lot of the time in terms of money yeah but they're they all find that They still aren't happy. They still don't feel.

cool you know i mean they're they're still riddled right and the last thing they want to do is have to look inward right i mean i think trump's even said that in an interview like someone asked if he had ever been to therapy and he said oh i could never do that i would be afraid of what i'd

find, like way before he was... president right and what about for the folks that you feel like are so susceptible to kind of kind of their do you have compassion for them yeah yeah i mean i did this show on hulu where i just went to basically like trump loving families and had them be host me, you know, where I didn't know where the bathroom was. I didn't know they, I put my wellbeing in their hands and there wasn't anyone.

of those experiences that I didn't leave loving them. And I know they loved me too. Yeah, of course, of course. Because if you're face to face, it's just fucking totally different. Fucking A, man. And there's so much power to push us apart and we're getting confused, you know, like strength and patriotism is getting confused with like standing on either side, just waving the fuck out of your flag. And it's like, nothing could be less patriotic. Nothing could be less strong.

But like, and that's kind of, I mean, you know, for whatever, you know, that's really what I think we've really tried to do is sit down with all kinds of people and especially bring. you know, bring folks together that you would think maybe are on like different sides of things and be like, look, you know, when you actually are in it, when you actually are on the ground, when you're actually experiencing it, you, there's moments of connection, you know, the pain that you're both going.

through can be an adhesive you find things you respect about each other you laugh at each other's jokes you fucking you know there's always a place to connect and i also think as a comic our that's what our that's what we get um really good at even just subconsciously because you have an audience and you have to find a way to connect with them. Right. And you can connect with anyone. That's right. You know, I always say it's like.

oh, I don't want to go to Thanksgiving because the politics are different and blah, blah, blah. It's like, don't talk about TV. I am a huge fan of TV. And I always use the example of Walking Dead. Don't talk about the first two seasons. Yeah. Shane really catapulted him. But that is what I say because it. Shows like that bring people together. Don't say, what do you think about so-and-so in politics? Go.

Oh my God, did you see Walking Dead? Like, I used to hate Carol. Now she's my world. You know, like, whatever. It doesn't matter.

It's funny because really what the recipe is the buddy movie recipe, right? You bring two people together that seemingly have nothing in common, that hate each other's guts. And while working on a common goal, they realize.

they're not so different after all and that's why bringing people together shouldn't be we're coming together because we're different we have different ideologies but we're coming together to build a house for gotta be on mission you gotta have something that you gotta do together and i mean like that's the thing if you look at like 48 hours i love that fucking movie right but it is literally like an alcoholic like racist cop with this like

convict I mean you there's no way you're making that fucking movie now like no way you know what I mean and the very reason that you couldn't make that movie is because you couldn't like not being able to say it not being able to just like throw that shit out there is also Like, you'll never get there. It's funny. I don't know if this is really, but it makes me think of when I was a kid, my mom watched soap operas, you know, and there was a woman.

on a soap opera. I think she was on, I don't know, All My Children or something. She was a black woman who is a star on one of these soap operas. And we saw her on a talk show, like Merv Griffin or something. It was a long time ago. And I remember her saying, The parts I get are like judges or, you know, lawyers. And she's like, and of course that was a reaction to. The parts being drug addicts and prostitutes. But it was such an overcorrection. She goes, I have...

I never get a chance to play a three-dimensional character who has vices, who has problems because of this overcorrection where it's like black people have to be really smart and perfect and this. And, you know, I mean, we've come.

I think we've come a real long way since then, and it took a very long time, and it still is, but a new way where we can really fucking talk. Colin Quinn is a great example of a comic who... talks about every kind of race, every kind of like group, not as a monolith, but as a, like, you know, he's from Brooklyn and he, he says it with such love that everyone.

in that audience from every one of the groups he's talking about loves it. You can tell he's a New Yorker. You can tell that he celebrates what that place is about. Yeah. I mean, it's with so much love. And it doesn't mean that the comedy is soft.

Having love when you say it means you can go hard. Yep. And we're... at a very touchy place, you know, right now. So it's very odd. Tell me just like, I think for all this, because you said it before, just explain to people who don't really understand New Hampshire, like just like describe.

So I got in a lot of trouble when I was young and I went to a camp, a sort of like discipline-based kind of camp up in New Hampshire. And then like very traditional, it was called Pemijewasit. Pemijewasit, there was no Jews there. It was like mandatory church.

uh and uh but uh and but then i went back and i was i was a counselor there as as as well uh but it was up in the white mountains um a little town called Wentworth New Hampshire but uh I've never heard of it yeah it's tiny there's so many tiny towns I think about New Hampshire it's like a million tiny towns but like wild as fuck and like I don't know I love New Hampshire and for all you know when

My brothers and all my best friends growing up when we were getting married, we would always kind of go up and hang out on Lake Winnipesaukee. And it just, there's something about that state that I think, you know, it's in the Northeast, but it's so not, it's just so its own wild.

free place. And I'm just like wondering if you could just sort of talk about it a little bit. Hmm. I mean, it was, you know, I didn't know anything else like, you know, The only way, my parents were atheists, you know, so it's like the only way we even felt Jewish was because we were in New Hampshire and people were like, they're Jews.

you know like oh we are you know like oh we are yeah you know but and and you know it's it's weird because i remember growing up i'd be like oh we're jewish but like we're totally not like very apologetic And like my friend Brian Moses, who's black, experienced a very similar thing in a very white world, which was this.

I certainly would not be able to articulate it as a kid. But looking back, it was like I was a host, letting my friends' parents know that I'm safe to be around, you know, and they don't have anything to worry about.

I had to develop that skill of being very personable and likable and show that I'm safe. It was so odd, you know. But, you know, I didn't... know any it's like when people go what's it like being a woman comedian i go i i don't know i i've only been this like i'm inside my body yeah so with new hampshire i mean one thing that was always was like

parents would go, are you from New York? And I'd be like, what's New York? I'm from here. Then as I became an adult, I was like, right. Like now these parents are.

would be younger than me i'm older than those and they just were people who always lived in new hampshire and just thought jews are from new york which they are you know like it's i don't have no malice towards it it was innocent you know but it's just it's you know but like now now now potentially like that same comment could draw like real um sense just right right like you couldn't really say that now

Right. Right. Like if a teacher said that, they could maybe. I mean, like I had a seventh grade teacher and this is fucked up. But, you know, that was like. well we work for we're our family's working for jesse jackson and so is our family but he goes your family must not like him because he had just said that hymie town thing but we were fully rainbow coalition working for him. And I just thought even in seventh grade, like for my teacher to point me out like that, I remember thinking like,

Well, if you thought he was really anti-Semitic, why would your family be working for him? You know, like, it's just like, yeah. That's what you're leading with. Right. Yeah, that's why he's our guy. But, you know, I love New Hampshire. I mean, listen, people go, oh, you're liberal, you blah, blah, blah. It's like we grew up.

with guns like at camp we learned how to like clean a rifle and you know shoot guns and i had you know uh archery set and i guess that's not so badass but i mean it was pretty good um you know it was like real country you know i mean the we lived on a farm and the neighboring farm was like all the meat that's how i became a vegetarian i was turned to became a vegetarian when i was seven because my dad

when I was six, took me to pick out our Thanksgiving turkey. And I like pointed to a turkey and Vic Villeneuve, the farmer, just like chopped its head off. And I was like, what? And I was like, that's turkey? Yeah. And so I couldn't eat turkey. Then I ate Happy Meals for like another year. And then I was like, no, that's cows. And I was just grossed out. So we were at Kentucky Fried Chicken and everyone was ordering. And I was like.

I just want biscuits. And my dad sat me down at a little table for two and was like, all right, let's just admit that you're a vegetarian and figure out what you can eat, you know. But yeah, New Hampshire, New Hampshire. I mean, I love it. I love, you know, I, it's odd because I haven't gone back since my mom passed away. We would all go home to New Hampshire in the summer and all hang out and be together.

My mom passed away and then my dad and my stepmother like put their house on the market like that same summer and I realized that they were only staying to be close to my mom because she wasn't well and when she died she was like holding both of their hands you know we're very weird that way like you know so now we're like i guess there's no reason to go home to new hampshire it's so weird yeah

i do love it i miss it yeah you know you know for for me like adam was the only uh he was like the only artist that I knew, you know, like growing up and, and, you know, uh, he was older and he was, um, it's just like so incredible, man. Like just, you know, like, We would, you know, we would always, they celebrated Christmas and we all celebrated Christmas and Christmas was like a big thing, right? Yeah, it was like so, yeah. But like, you know, they...

I just remember from the youngest age, he could play any song on any instrument. And I remember sitting down with him. I got the synthesizer when I was in fourth grade. And we like... He started like playing this song. He like taught me these three chords and we made up the song together. It's like, she's mysterious. And it was like walking through the night. The girl is out of sight because she's mysterious. I've never sung that before.

But we made that up to you. He was like, that's how easy it is, man. And I was like, what? He was magic. But I also remember... You know, with like an older cousin like that, you know, it's just like, it's very much like you're always like in awe of them, you know? And he was like so successful. He was like a rock star. Yeah, like Stacey's mom came out. You were probably like 18 or something. Yeah, yeah. But like even...

even before like just being in a band and like right like you know he wrote that thing you do and then yeah and uh and like you know i wanted to be an actor and he was like he had like a like a place in in new york you know like and he it was like he was just so you know, far away and untouchable and godly to me. It's so funny because he's such a, like, regular guy. He was such a regular guy.

I can't believe I did that thing that people do like on law and order when it's like, she's, she was, you go like, nobody does that. And then I was like, Oh, I guess people do do that. It's real. But like, uh, I was always really hesitant. I never reached out to him. I never was like, hey, can you help me with it? I remember one time I like...

needed a place to stay. I was like, you know, for a while in New York, I was, I was like, I was living in my, I was, I had a Jeep. I was living in my Jeep, but it was, it didn't have a top and it was raining. But I wouldn't, I couldn't like bring myself to like Ascot who had this like beautiful place.

couldn't like bring myself to be like hey man can I like stay there and then like in later years like anything you need he was just like that he's so kind and um you know I think probably similarly like you you you you were I think much closer with him than even I was weirdly in, you know, and that's, but I'm just like wondering, because like you probably were like, you probably weren't in a place where you could fight with him.

You know what I mean? No. But like, we would fight, you know, like siblings. You know what I mean? I mean, can you just explain a little bit about like your guys? I mean, who knows, like whatever, who knows if this is, but just for me, I'm just really interested about your relationship with him and who, like.

We started working together, like making weird videos. He had an idea for like a J-Lo video, but it's about like staying home, like about going to a party, but instead it's about staying home and masturbating and watching TV. And I was like, yeah, I love it. Because we had this mutual friend, Daniel Kellison.

So we made some videos. We did stuff. He wrote the theme song to Crank Yankers, which was like a show we do a long time ago. But he read my book and he came over my apartment. He's like, this is a musical. And he's like reading the chapter titles. That's a song. You know, I was just like. All right. You know, and we just started writing it together. And we just really had a good.

Working relationship. I always think it's a great creative relationship when you can fight and there's no love loss. It's like we would fight and we would never walk away mad. We would like. fight until we were dying laughing and both loved the idea, you know? But I always think that's special when you can like go, you know, I mean, there were times where I was like,

literally over my dead body. Are we doing that? You know what I mean? But then, then like by the end, it's like, yeah, that is, that's good. But, um, but I always feel close to people that I can. butt heads with without worrying that there's any love lost or anything and we were good at that and you know he was like um you know he he was um what's it called not hard-headed you know

Stubborn? Yeah. He was stubborn. And it's funny because I'm used to working with, you know, artists, you know, like. And we were working with this theater and he was so impatient because we're used to TV. Like he wrote song, he wrote like three songs a week for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Like he wants, he's like, I want a deadline. I want to know when the show goes up. I want to, and like theater is like.

It took 10 years ultimately, you know, but he's like, give us a date. There's ridiculous. We can get this done. We're almost there. And I remember them calling me to talk about Adam. Oh, really? Yeah. And they're like, well, I mean, he's just, you know, I mean, we, you know, he, he got all mad. I was just like, I couldn't believe it. I go, don't you guys work with artists? Like, I can't believe your.

at like clenching your per, like clutching your pearls. Like he just, you know, like he would be very passionate about something I would say like, I'm not going to respond to you for one week. You have to sit with this for one week. You know, that he'd be like, yeah, right. Or like he would go, I want this to happen now. And it probably would have been good. But like. instead we had to do like two workshops. And by the end of it, I go,

do you wish we went up before the workshops or you like it better now? I like it better now. You know, but like, it's so, it was just so funny to me. And of course they love him. They loved, you know, but, but they were like, Oh, well, I mean, he just like, he, he blew up at the, and I go. Are you really upset about that? Like he's just an artist. Like he's not going to bite. He's just Adam. But they would like be like, you're the Adam whisperer. No, I'm not. I'm just a person who's not.

overreacting like but he was so funny we laughed so hard we weren't so well together and and the truth you know I'm talking about like

his creative stuff, but I mean, he was a doll, you know, he was a love. And it's funny because before COVID hit, we started hanging out. not working, like just hanging out. He, he would come out here and he had this, I still have it in my phone. And as a matter of fact, it's in my phone for today, which is like every like second Friday of the month. He would have his piano, piano bar.

like a karaoke piano bar that he co-owns that that would do like a um pop-up here in la and we went new york right here in new york he's got he had sid gold right and here they had um gold diggers and it was like one night a month and i started going to because it was so fun and i'm not a karaoke person but we would both like go up and

it's so fun. Just like in New York, it's like all professional singers and it's so fun cheering everyone on. Yeah. So we were like really hanging out, you know, and, um, did, did his death like did that.

did that kind of, I mean, for us, it's sort of like, at least in the beginning, it like just framed COVID in like a totally different way. I mean, I still kind of don't believe it. Like I just, um, i just don't believe yeah it's it's very a grief is a funny thing isn't it you can't control it you know it's like it's so weird i haven't cried and then like two weeks later you're in line at gelson's and you're like

You know, like, it's just, it does its own thing and you have to just let it, you know. But it's so weird and the show happened, you know, and it's just maddening. And it's also, it just happened so quick. He was texting us like, oh, can you believe this? I had fucking COVID. Can you believe it? I'm in the hospital with fucking COVID. Yeah, putting me on a ventilator, yeah. It's just wild, you know, to.

At that time, you know, in the beginning of it. He couldn't get a test and then he finally found a test and then he never got there. They just never sent the results. You know, it's just so early on. Like if it. had just happened. Sure. Anyway, I mean, it just happened. This is what is. Yeah. But boy, when the play went up, it's just, he is all over it. I bet, yeah.

You know, it's in, you know, the family came and everything. And it really felt like a celebration of Adam, this show, even though it's about me the year I'm 10. It's just, it's so signature him. So it was.

that was nice but it's it's frustrating but you kind of have to let it go because it's just it's not going to change for sure for sure i'm telling you you know i mean obviously no but yeah yeah yeah so much of like doing this is like uh I felt that it's like so not about me. As a motherfucker, I believe in the...

the people that I have on, like everyone. I'm like, you guys just like, I believe in this person, just like check, like you said, you've gotten all these skills over the year and you've picked up on this of all the therapy you've done, but also you are, I mean, you are like, you're, you're.

I don't want you to take it, but you're like national treasure. I mean, you are like, right? Like, do you feel like the podcast, do you feel like some of the things you like, is that your, your fight? Is that you taking the fight to the issue? Yeah. And, and by the way, I mean, once I, you know, I think about it and I. I try to be kind of not wishy-washy, not weak, but a little zen, a little kind of like, because I try to go, if I hope for change,

How could that happen? Does it happen by putting people on the defensive? It definitely doesn't. People can't be open if their, you know, porcupine needles are up. You gotta, as an artist, like... You gotta be fucking bold. You gotta not really like give a fuck about how some place.

lands, you just gotta be really honest, right? And in my thing, I get this structure that somebody else wrote, and then I can go as far as I fucking want. But for you, it's like, the comedy of Saracen, it's yours, right? It's like you're- Right, I can't go like, well, the writer. Right, right.

the character that I'm playing right so you know now in this like kind of political time where people have to be like careful about what they say you're somebody who said all kinds of shit and like you've been like fucking punk rock and bold as a motherfucker but at the same time you're now also

to being like, I don't know, but like, I think that might be fucked up. I think that might be fucked up. Right. And so it's like this. Sorry. No, but that's it. I mean, it's like, so how, like, how, how do you, how do you square that? Like, how, how does that. Does that gnaw at you? Does that bother you? I think because I've learned over the years that there doesn't have to be shame in being wrong or being sorry. And so, you know...

There are a lot of people that cannot say they're sorry. First of all, please can we stop asking people to apologize? It means nothing. Right, right. Apologies mean everything when they come from you. But when it's like you need to publicly apologize, don't. Please don't unless you're sorry. So I always say like. Do not apologize if you're not sorry.

And apologize if you're sorry. It's a very simple rule, you know? And I get such good feelings from realizing I'm wrong and apologizing. And I just think like, I want other people to have that because. I think especially with how men in society have been raised, they're terrified. And so I see with all people, but specifically a lot of times with men, is that if they feel shame.

They can't express it. It's not an option for them. So the shame, like just the way carbs might convert into sugar converts into outward rage, outward blame. I mean, you see it with Trump. He's just a really good, you know. a really good example of these things because it's survival for him to not be wrong. And there are so many people with this pathology. It's very human. The trick is trying to...

understand it. You know, I mean, they say mindfulness. That's all mindfulness is, is like being aware of it. Like, oh, I did that thing. You know, oh, I did that thing where I'm defensive. We were talking about drugs. And in my 20s, I did ecstasy, and it really changed my life forever. How so? Because I was in a relationship with this guy, Sam, lovely guy, and he... was trying to talk to me about, you know, you, you know,

an issue he had with me, my behavior in relationship, in our relationship. And my reaction would always be like, fucking, fucking forget it, you know, and like leave the room. Like just total defensiveness, complete ego. And we took ecstasy one night and we sat at his kitchen table, his dad's kitchen table.

And we started talking about it, and I didn't feel defensive. I didn't make it about me. I heard... everything he said and it was like mind-blowing and i was able to make those adjustments because they behooved me as much as him and like waking up the next day wasn't like oh that was crazy it was like i was still there like right

Yeah. You know, it's very mind experience. I mean, it was, it developed in Dallas for couples therapy and they found that people used it recreationally. So they had to make it illegal. But, um, Yeah, it was very helpful for me, but there's all sorts of experiences that can do that. I would, but ecstasy was mine. Is there anything that you feel like you regret?

doing as an artist or is there anything you feel like you should have gone harder as an artist i mean my knee-jerk reaction is like i wish there wasn't the most racist version of blackface of me out there i mean that would be awesome but I can't erase it. The frustrating thing is the episode of television it comes from doesn't exist because the powers that be were like, mm-mm. There's a thing of you. Okay, I didn't know that.

I had a show called The Sarah Silverman Program, and in it, just like my first special, Jesus is Magic, it's a lot about race. And it's in character. character's name, unfortunately, is Sarah Silverman, but it's a character of like an ignorant, arrogant, an ignorant person who's incredibly arrogant and I love those things together and to me it was like I could explore so many things and be the one who's the idiot, the asshole in it.

And it really, I really enjoyed it. Of course, there's going to be some, you can't control how people infer the stuff you put out, right? Sure. Of course, there's going to be some what an old boyfriend used to call mouthful of blood laughs, you know, where they're like laughing at the wrong thing in the wrong way, which is, I think, a big part of Chappelle leaving his show, you know.

Um, but which was so brilliant, but, um, you know, it was the, the episode was about, uh, me and, uh, Alex Deser who played the waiter at the like diner we always went to and he's black and I'm Jewish and we were arguing over who has it worse which is so timely now you know it's like this bizarre competition, you know, of generational trauma. For sure.

Everyone on the show, it's very cartoony or idiots. So of course I'm like, it's like a circle of black with like white. And I'm like, I'm a black person. Then I walked down the street and people are like, you're disgusting. And I'm like, oh my God, it is harder for black people. You know, it's like. it was very um like almost comedia you know and and then you know I come back to apologize to him and he's got like the payas and a yarmulke and a giant nose and a

T-shirt that says, I love money, which I put him in. I dressed him in that. The buck stops with me. But of course, now there is no context that makes that okay. And I accept that completely. Comedy is not evergreen. I like to think of myself as an ally standing up for all sorts of people. But when I stand up for Jews, all that comes back to me is that picture with this you, this you, this you. And I just feel like going like, it was.

It was. It's not now because I live in this world and I understand it. And I absolutely, it was before social media. It was about race, and I knew there was racism, and I knew there, you know, so that's what I was interested in talking about. But it was ignorant in itself beyond my character, but my... actual self because I didn't have social media to see, oh, unarmed black teenagers get murdered regularly. It's not, this isn't like I go, oh my God, there's like a real.

epidemic of of this violence against like unarmed black teenagers and took me like a little bit to go oh no this is how it is and I wasn't aware of it right and now I know it that's like a real amazing thing about social media is how small it makes the world and how you can see other people's experience. So not being able to unring that bell, and of course you wouldn't want to, of course I look back on it and cringe, but...

With so many people, I just think if there's no path to redemption, if it's just canceled. Yeah. The fuck are we doing? Then they're going to go to the dark side where the love is. That's right. You know, just to be very, you know. black and white but you know neil brennan i've quoted it before has such a brilliant joke about this and i'll probably quote it terribly but um where he says

about people growing and that that has to be allowed. It's like that he says, it's like someone going up to LeBron James and going, is this you when you were 15? You're only 5'7". Yeah, but I grew. Yeah, but this is you, right? Yeah. You know, like it's so brilliant because it's, you have to be rooting. Do you want people to be changed as you, we draw these lines in the sand or do you want to

Or do you want them to never be changed and to be able to point at them as wrong and yourself as right? It's righteousness porn, ultimately. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah.

You have any questions for me? Yeah. I mean, you know, I listened to you. You went on Howard Stern. That was a phenomenal interview. Oh, boy. Phenomenal. I was so nervous. It's just such a, you have. How would you, when you did Howard Stern, were you scared? Like, do you get nervous before those? I did. Cause I love you on Howard Stern. You did like in the, like your first time? Yeah. The first time I went on, I was a terrible guest and he probably would have never had me on again.

And then he he did because I was like Jimmy Kimmel's girlfriend and they were friends. And thank God it went great. And then I became like a more of a regular guest and stuff. And but. Ugh, I hate that it was because I, but I do think that's the, I don't think he would have had me on again. I was a really bad guest because I- He's like infatuated with you, man. Like he like fucking- He does. He loves me. I think he loves me. Yeah.

But the first time I was on, and I know exactly what I did wrong, I was trying to be cool. You know? I know. Yeah, whatever. You know, I was... And isn't that what holds so many people back? They're trying to be cool. They're so afraid that they clam up and you're not open or weird or interesting, you know? Like you're just too guarded.

to make a mistake or to not be cool, whatever that means. So you remedied that by what? Like, what do you say to yourself before you walk on Howard Stern or before you walk on stage or before, if you say anything to yourself? You know, I do have a, this is embarrassing. Nah, come on. I do, well, I have a couple. A couple tricks. One is like at an audition or something like that. And I tell this to people because I really think it helps. I always think it's good to go into an audition.

kind of in your presenting yourself, at least in your head as a, as a host, like that you're taking care of their feelings because then. you're not focused on like, what do I do with my arms or whatever? And once you're in it, you should be in it. But when you're talking to them, it's almost like you're saying, do you, are you okay? You need anything? Or, you know, because then.

It's nice when somebody has to take care of you that like, like gestures of care, what bring people together, you know, but let's. lots of uh mr rogers i you know what it is i grew up with mr rogers like a little kid but in high school i rediscovered him before school when i'd like eat my cereal i would watch mr rogers and i I just took him in in a completely different way with a more developed brain where I go like, this is...

Beautiful. Like, I mean, I honestly watch an episode of Mr. Rogers. You're going to cry. How so? What was it like when you, when you saw when you were older? Because he. caring for children and that he believed that adults, all adults, I have no children, but there are children in my life and that our real job as adults is helping children through all the changes of life. you know and i just think it's beautiful you know i mean he honestly please watch google mr rogers uh in the at the senate

on the Senate floor. Oh yeah, I saw it. I saw it. And did you see, did you like the movie or did you see the movie and the documentary? Yes. The documentary, we, um, I was working on this Hulu show, I Love You America, and we went as a field trip. And then, um, the movie I was. sobbing and I met his wife was there and it was Ginny and it was not cool like I was too much of a mess and it was I think she was uncomfortable I was like I just

It was really, I, you know, I'm not a big crier because I, I'm on Zoloft, but I, like, I was just so moved. I just, I'm so moved by, it's, this is. hardcore but like it's crazy he wasn't discovered to be a pedophile or something like it's like there's got to be something right right in denmark truly just cared and loved children and care and

You know what? That's what we should be focusing on. They're our future. They're us. For sure. You know? And I love this Gen Z. You know, they're so motivated. They're hopefully going to save us all. But... Did you, so the article that the, so the movie, right?

The article that it was, did you read the article that the movie was kind of based on? No, that, that, that was. That the guy wrote. Right. Like, was it like, that's so fucking heavy. The guy who wrote the movie, Noah Harpster's a buddy of mine who wrote that, Noah and Micah, who wrote that movie, right? And so like, well, he was, he's a huge. You guys should meet. He wrote, do you know him? He wrote, what was the show with fucking Jeffrey Tambor. And he, he.

No, motherfucker. Transparent? Yes, yes, yes. Sarah Silverman, who I should have asked instead of the fucking woodpecker. We call him the woodpecker. Dennis? Yeah. He gets ideas and he just fucking pecks. I like that. I mean, I'm sure you hate it, but sometimes it's for good. I would be lost without it, but I feel overwhelmed sometimes. But anyway, just read the article. It's crazy because the bond that, you know, Mr. Rogers, I guess.

um really saved him like really saved this journalist like really saved his marriage saved you know and was really there for him and um it's it's almost like uh yeah it blew my mind but noah noah is an incredible writer and just a total Mr. Rogers, he's the one that kind of turned me on to it. Yeah. You were going to ask me about Howard Stern. Oh, it was just a great interview. Oh, with Howard. And just hearing about...

your early life and fighting and getting into trouble. And then like, didn't you go to acting school in like Moscow? I mean, it's just a very, it's an interesting trajectory and it. it must track like it's, they see like the, the things that make up you seem to be at odds. And that's beautiful. I think it makes me very much feel always like an outsider in this, which is something I'm totally comfortable with and I've made real peace with. But I was always that way as an artist.

cousin who was like this script but like i had no relation to that it was all like you know Yeah, sports and fighting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was the only place I really found. You know, I was like a pretty good athlete. I could play sports in college, but I was never as good as my... you know, like my friends or my brother, like, you know, and being wild and, and, and doing the things nobody else would do. I want to say you were like teaching boxing, um, in a law and order episode.

Uh, yeah. You were like kids fighting up on a platform. Yeah, that was one of the first things I ever did, man. Yeah, no, you were like a baby. Yeah, that was like. I'm a law and order head. yeah it was funny because uh josh chambers who ran my theater company man this brilliant artist who died way too early too he saw that and i guess i was so nervous i was like scratching like i i ran a backyard wrestling thing that's what it was right but i also

was a big steroid dealer. So like, you know how law and order is, it's like you can either be the guy who lies Or you can be the guy that you get, if you're either the guy who tells the truth to show you to the guy who's lying or you're the guy who's lying, then you get to come back and do another scene and you reveal that you were lying, right? And I was that guy. And it was a big part, you know? It was. And D'Onofrio was on that and he like sat down.

next to me. Oh, it was the criminal intent. Criminal intent, man. And he told me I did a good job. That shit fucking... Oh, that's incredible because I always heard he had no tolerance for like actors that weren't excellent. Dude, Vince, he doesn't fuck around, man. That guy doesn't fuck around. Like he's so...

if you are an antithesis to what we are trying to do, like director, producer, if you are not part of the artistic journey, dude, you are the fucking enemy and he lets you know. It's great. I saw him just completely just like... crumple Marvel execs. It was like great. You're my fucking hero, dude. But, nah, I tried it.

do shit like that but I'm way too nice I can't but anyway like but uh but yeah I used to scratch myself because I was like so nervous being it was the first time in front of a camera but my friend Josh was like you know that's like one of the big side effects from like steroid use he was like that was such an amazing gesture and so Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, I did some, you know, I like...

Yeah. Do some research on that. I'm a huge fan of like Peep World and I'm a huge fan. Like I'm, you know, like I've never met anyone who's seen that movie. I thought that movie was brilliant, man. And you're so good. Like, I just think like. so many of the so so many in like the dramatic stuff like i just think you're a brilliant actor and i think that like uh i'm just like like do you did you do you feel like a outsider it's a cheesy as fuck

You do, right? Yeah. I think a lot of comedians do. Anytime there's some Hollywood thing, there's always a little corner where the comics find each other. I think Island of Misfit Toys-ish. But it's okay. Thank you for that announcement. Yeah, exactly. She talks. See ya. No way. I didn't know that was a doggy door. Isn't that the best? I love that they have power over their...

They can do what they want. I try not to edit myself because of whatever we call like cancel culture or whatever, but it's more like if I know... Now that saying this kind of thing hurts people, I can't... I keep saying unring that bell because Jack McCoy does law and order, but like you can't unring, I can't unknow that. And that's going to affect me. But I, my standup has changed just by virtue of.

being an adult and growing older and having different experiences and changing in my life. But you have to be brave, you know, I think to really get the most out of. loving what this thing that we do, you know, like, and I really learned from Chris Rock because he'll do a special. And he works his ass off. He works harder than me. He gets mad at me because he's like, I do 200 shows before I shoot a special. You're doing 30. And I'm like, but I...

I'm scared on the road and like you're in a private jet and I'm at Southwest Gate and like it just I don't know everyone's different but but he's he's so good and but but He's brave. Not just in the material. Oh, hi. What's up? Do you know how I was in the middle of something deep? Yeah, man. Fucking asshole. Chris Rock, dude. I'm just kidding. I can't be mad at you. What he taught me.

is he's brave not just in his cake-ass material or whatever, but he'll do a special, that material's dead, and he goes back to the cellar, and the crowd goes fucking bananas because it's Chris Rock, and he just... tries new stuff and is willing to disappoint the audience and bomb, maybe find a couple kernels of something and start from there. And you're not willing to do that? Yes, I am. But I learned it from him. You know, after my first.

special that was like the culmination of like my entire first 10 years of stand-up or something and it was solid and great and it was like this character that well-developed character but when it was over I was like still doing it And then I was just like, I've got to write new material, but people are coming just to see me now. I'm not just a comic on the lineup and I don't want to disappoint them. I had to learn to disappoint them. I had to learn to start from zero.

have my notebook you know and and just disappoint the crowd but but you know they they some people don't get it some people do and whatever it's just you have to be willing to do it because otherwise you're not going to write new stuff and you're not going to grow and figure out who you are today or now. And, um, so like my standups changed so much.

But like you said, like, what do you regret? And I do have those regrets. I don't know that I would change it because I like the path I'm on. I like realizing new stuff and everything, but you do have to. grow and change because if you stick with that one thing that got you up to one place you become a caricature of yourself and it's very it's like how very still water will get

That's right. Get all nasty and gnarly. You've got to be moving. I don't know what my point was. I think I had a better one, but I forgot it. No, I'm with you. With that, do you feel like, just like with art and with life in general, do you feel like this is the healthiest?

Do you feel like you just get better and better? Do you feel like this is the healthiest you've ever been? I do. And you know what? Joan Rivers said something that made me so inspired because she was, you know, we're very different, but I loved her so much. But she said like, I didn't. She felt like she didn't find herself as a stand-up until she was in her 70s. And I love that about stand-up. And acting, too. There's a place for everyone of every age.

So many of my friends are comics and they go from anywhere from 19 to 96. Totally. That's such a... And they're every religion and every color. But what you said, that really resonates with me. It brings back to Howard Stern, I think. I am so fucking inspired and encouraged and in awe of people in their 70s, people who are older.

who continue to change, continue to grow, but find happiness. Their personal lives are growing. I mean, it makes me think of, there's a musical, a Sondheim musical, Sunday in the Park with George. And in it, there's a song called Move On. And the whole... show is about art and it's fucking cool. Like, you know, if you listen to the lyrics and she's just saying, move on, you know, the...

The choice may be mistaken. The choosing is not. So in other words, just make a choice. If it's the wrong choice, they'll make another choice. But you've just got to move. Go forward. I mean, I find it inspiring. Right on. Right on. Are you guys got anything else? Huh? You motherfuckers. Anything else you want to know, assholes? You motherfuckers. I do take naps. Not always, but if I have... Did they load that? They said you're anti-nap.

It has to be the right amount of time. It can't be too long or you're fucked. Look, here's my thing. I can't fuck with a nap. I can't fuck with a nap. Personal. Yeah, man. And like, you know...

I just think it's so great that we can disagree on this and still be friends. We can totally still, we can still, yeah. And I can still respect the fact, you know, that, that, that you now, I just, when I call, let me ask you this. If I were to call you up, right? Like say we were fucking, you know, like we,

We were phone friends, right? Like, I'd love to be your phone friend. I'd hit you up and be like, yo, Sarah, what are you doing? Ah, I just got up from a nap. Like, I think there's something... You'd be, like, bummed out? I'd just be like, really, man? Like... That's what you're doing right now? Like you're taking a nap? Well, I'm going to tell you this. Yeah. I have a very active dream life and I have to be there a lot. Fair enough. All right. That's cool.

If it was like the middle of the day, right? And you're just like, all right, I'm watching some stoop. I'm smoking a joint and watching this show. Would you be like, yeah, that's what I'm doing? Are you fine with just being in the middle of your day? That's like you're putting out into the world. I'm just smoking a joint and watching a show. If you called me and I was napping, what you're saying is I should be like... Hey, what's up?

There you go. Like, you know, like so, because it's what we have to like, but just like, you know, man, like, like some, there wouldn't be a tinge of like, damn, I was just taking a nap. I mean, I would hope we would have that honesty, but there wouldn't be some part of you that would be a little bit like, dude.

It's like three o'clock and I'm napping. I'll never forget one time I was, for a while I was waking up and then sitting in a chair. I had, you know, this is my first house. Like I always lived in like a two room apartment and I was in that apartment and I would get up and I would just sit in a chair.

You know, like all day. And then my phone rang and I was like, hello. And it was my agent. And he's like, what are you doing right now? And I said, working. So I get it. And I also have that hang up from my dad. When my dad would call, if I was at my mom's house, my dad would call. I'd turn off the TV so he didn't hear it in the background. I have such a hang-up about...

seeming lazy, you know? So, but as an adult, I go, well, this is my life that I got. Fair enough. You earned yourself a nap. Yeah. I mean, I like a little nap. Yeah. You motherfuckers haven't earned a nap. None of us have earned that yet. That's what I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Just don't nap. I mean, like, you know what I mean? Just go to sleep. I love bedtime, though. Bedtime's the best. It's the best. Nighttime is the right time.

I was saying, I was like, oh my God, I would have like heated the pool to like bathtub level and we could smoke weed and like hang out, but have a show tonight. Oh, you have a show? Yeah, and I cannot get high before a show. My brain just gets too mushy. I don't. Most of my comedian friends are high all the time. When they're performing. Brilliant on stage. Yeah. That brings my two favorite things together and makes them.

You were saying that you get high. You like playing basketball high because sometimes it makes you awesome. Sometimes it makes you shitty. Yeah, and who cares? It's basketball. Yeah, I'm the same. Sometimes I'm just in the zone. I don't even feel my legs or arms. I'm just floating.

Straight up. It's so good. I heard you're good, man. I heard from John Polano said that you're good. I don't mean to be like, this dude, John Polano, he's played with you a couple of times. Oh, that sounds familiar. Yeah. Yeah. I think he played. At Gary's? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's a picture of you. Oh, yeah, there. Okay, I always guarded Gary. Oh, really? It wasn't that hard. He's like... Are you playing? Are you playing again? I played for the first time since the pandemic.

Like a month ago, and I think that might be it for me. I'm so sad because it's my joy. I love talking shit. I love having a pup. Fuck yeah. I thought I was going to die. Dude, but you can remedy that. Fuck that. Is there something that hurts or are you just tired? That's what I'm talking about. That's that nap shit. Well, that's the thing. No, no, no.

No, seriously. That's bullshit. That's not a reason to stop. Because I'm dragging and dragging and then I hit a point where I'm great. Right. Like, I don't feel it anymore. But it's just you're not in shape, dude. Just get in fucking shape. if your knees aren't hurt or your backside dude but if my dad's 76 he still plays three times a week is that true fuck yeah full court full court with 20 year olds full court

Full fucking court. Okay. Let's go. Hey, listen, I promise you, I promise you, if you play with me, like just come play. We'll play down in Venice. Okay. I love it so much. You play outside? Outside, inside, whatever you want. My brother's got an indoor game.

No fucking. Oh yeah. I love an indoor game. That's what I was playing every Sunday for so long and sometimes on Tuesdays and it was so great. But yeah, I guess you're right. I'm just out of shape. But that last game, there were exactly 10 people. So everyone was playing.

And I was literally, I would, we'd go from offense to defense and I'd go, I'd be like, somebody get my guy. You know, like it was really sad. Can you describe your game? Sorry, and if we need to, do we need to stop? Do you have to go? No, I. I'm, you know, obviously I'm, I've always been an outside shot person. Oh, okay. I thought she was explaining like, I have a show, so you guys got to leave like pretty, I thought you were about to go. No, I can talk forever. But, um, I, but.

In my later years, I feel like I got, like before the pandemic, I felt like I was the best I'd ever been. And I'm, you know, and we're like, Doing more and going in the inside more being a little more brazen and it as a woman playing with guys I Learned some I realized something that like kind of affected my whole life

Which is, and it's not the guy's fault. It's my perception's fault. And every once in a while, there'd be another woman. And I would be like, watch how many times they shoot and miss. And watch, and they keep shooting. And that's how you get good. But when you're a woman playing in that atmosphere, if you shoot and miss, your instinct is to go, I'm just going to set picks and not shoot. Because missing one.

Missing one shot is like missing 100 shots when you're a woman. It feels that way. Even if you're projecting it, you feel like, especially early on when I would have to, it was all proving yourself.

you would feel the guy's eye roll or whatever, and you go, fuck, all right, I'm just going to set picks and do... what i know i can how did it playing pickup basketball as you were getting more and more famous how did that change like was there a frustration there was there no because i got more they were more

cool playing yeah see i'm just the opposite really just the fucking opposite yeah so are you at a level where you're playing like do you know like the fourth street this game on sixth avenue yeah me and my brother used to play there yeah yeah we they used to call scud and patriot by the way Oh my God. I mean, cause that's like, those guys are like pros.

I mean, there are. My brother played it pretty. My brother's really good. I'm a street, I just play it. Me and my kids shit all over these fools. But my kid's nine. He was whooping their asses when he was eight, dude. Actually seven. Lil' Bill. Anyway, but my dad played college basketball. My grandpa played college basketball. It's like a basketball house. I didn't play. I played baseball and football in a box, right? But like, you know.

I really, my old man always says, you get a guy on the basketball court and in three seconds, I can tell you exactly what his personality is. Yes, because there's the guy who goes, fucking shit, you know, like slams the ball down and you're like. Well, there's also, there's the guy who just.

Keeps fucking shooting, like you said. There's the guy who sets pick and plays defense. He's hardworking. But also, I think that the beauty of street basketball is because there is no ref there, your integrity is always, it is always like who you are.

are as a human being. Are you the one crying about a foul or are you the one who's like my bad? Are you crying period? Right. Do you talk shit? Do you not talk shit? Do you talk shit in a way that's like encouraging everybody? I love talking shit but I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel like they loved it. They didn't love it. I like like joking talking. But look, I personally, I play pretty physically and I really loved playing in New York and out here in LA. I love going to courts.

where people were like, who the fuck is this dude? Like fucking white boy this. And then like, I like that kind of conversation. What I hate now is like, oh shit, got the Punisher on my squad. I hate that because now people are like accepting. It's like people who want to fight Mike Tyson.

know what i mean exactly exactly fights with him wherever he goes that's right that's right no no no i don't mind if they want to do that that's fine no no and i'm not like trying to be like but i don't like it that now it's like come on in and play i like the i like basketball i I like the animosity of street ball. I like banging. I usually am an indica person, because sativa would give me anxiety.

for basketball it's great because you just put it all in there you know and it's it's interesting how that kind of relates to this might be insane let's do it it kind of relates to what we're talking about What are we talking about? Oh, basketball. Yeah. Oh, God. It kind of relates to that. We're talking about the polarized ideologies, the left, the right, and everything. Because... It's, for a lot of it, and not just the right, also the left, it is unexamined.

misplaced anger that you can put it here and feel like it's righteousness. And what's wonderful about basketball is that you can... put all your rage into it, into this game. Not to pick fights on the court, but to just run, run and run and run and run. But also you can put your energy and you can put your energy and you can channel whatever it's going through.

into being a good teammate, into setting the right pick and getting that rebound and encouraging that guy, let's go. That's what I love about it. That's what I love about pickup basketball. The teamwork.

It is so true. Just what you said. You can tell so much. You can tell what their work ethic is. You can tell how they are in groups. You can tell, you know, if they're like a, you know, I'm just going to do it myself. I'm just going to take it to the land over and over. Yeah, totally. Thank you very much for.

doing this i love you i'm so happy to i love your podcast and i love your acting and i'm a fan and you're delicious and you're a sweetheart that's very kind of you yeah yeah thank you this is this really means a lot and we all, I can speak for all of us, we really, we have... Come on, guys. Yeah, yeah, thanks for having us here. Thank you, Sarah.