Welcome to the REI Masterminds Network, where host Jack Haas gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing. In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing that works, what they've tried that failed. And best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing to the next level. Now, here's Jack with another value packed episode. Grant Shipman joins me here today, and you can learn what his team is up to by going to livings.com/mastermind.
That's gonna be a clickable link in the show notes. We're gonna be talking about co living today, and, this is kind of an interesting vertical in the real estate world. So thanks for joining me. Well, JD, it's an honor to be here. I love talking about co living. It's the newest biggest thing that, people still don't know about. Right. Because once people start to hear about something it's possibly in the past. And so I love it. It's my passion.
So thanks again for not just making a quality show, but also for bringing me onto it. This is really great. So this is kind of an interesting vertical. I see this in my market quite a bit because we're a big college town. We see co living situations, but not positioning it as an investor. Could you talk a little bit about how you found your way to this particular niche? Yeah, it was one of those beautiful
accidents as so many things are right. I got hooked on the idea of financial freedom because I call it my dream babe magical journey. I wanted to find my dream girl and get married when I have kids, but I wanted the financial freedom to enjoy them. So I started learning about real estate, right? It's pretty much the easiest, surest, safest way to financial freedom. And what I found when I went to look at a house was that there was another house on the same property.
And so I went to see this. I was the normal, normal Joe investor. I found my financial freedom number. I thought if I work hard and make $200 per door in 10 years, everything goes right. I too can be financially free, you know, and that was a long time, but I was committed. But when I came to this house with my relitter, I was delivering dominoes out of a shitty Prius. I was renting a room and the lender I called, cause I was supposed to build my team, right? The lender lender laughs at
me. Like you can't, you gagging the house. I'm like, all right, we're just going to keep going. Well, I went to this and what happened? What was this like to any moment was I thought, how do I lease this place out? So, I ran some dummy ads to see demand. I saw I could put both houses on one lease, each house on its own lease. And I thought, well, how about I could also lease it out by the room. And so in the next 48 hours, I had gotten at least 10 times the response for the
rent by the room. And when I spoke with my real estate mentor, he goes, Grant, everybody knows rent by the room has high revenues, but by the end of the month, your profits have disappeared and your management headaches are way above what you want. Long term. That's why people don't do it typically, unless they feel called to it. What was different for me is that for 20 years, I had lived, with hippies, with the intentional living community. These people who are the OGs of strangers sharing the
house, not because they can't afford to because they want to. And so, so yeah, I kind of stumbled into this thing. I got financial freedom from that day when I found that surprise house in the backyard. I ended up not getting that place. It's just where this moment happened, the switch in my life. But from that day, a little less than 15 months later, I had financial freedom. 2 months after that I found my dream babe. I married her and then we got pregnant on our honeymoon. It's just been
awesome. From an investment standpoint, you get way more for way less. And from a renter standpoint, they get a whole beautiful house for the price of a row. So kind of the perfect setup. It's interesting. You mentioned doing these dummy ads. The last time I saw that was in a Tim Ferris book, the 4 hour work week. He recommends you doing these dummy ads to just kind of test the market. Is that where you got that from? Or is it just kind of come naturally? I'm not sure. I know I didn't get
it from there because I read the book after that. I wish I would have stumbled upon that book earlier. So many things, but I think for me, it just made sense. I didn't know. And I was very responsible about it. Like somebody would message me. I would immediately message them back and say, sorry, it's not available. I didn't want somebody holding their breath.
These are important. People are wanting to find where they can move to. But yeah, I just did it and I thought, oh my gosh, everything changes now, J. D. A house can make my first house that I got renting it out, it would have made about $2,700 a month and it makes $6,300 a month through Colip compared to just traditional rental. It's astounding. Those are some big number differences. And I mean, the the only other market that I see people throwing numbers like that around is for,
like, Airbnbs, the short term rentals. And that's dwindled quite a bit now because, I mean, the market is frankly just flooded. Could you kind of break things down a little bit as to how these numbers come about and maybe the let's talk about your buy box a little bit associated with these properties? Yeah, I think it'd be good to say what co living is because there is rent by the room strategies that have been around forever. So, for instance, I have sober living. I have a sober living
house. I do not consider that a co living house. There are halfway houses. There's rooming houses. That's kind of housing for the poor. Other senior housing, like you mentioned, there's student housing. These are all transitional housing, right? People are only there for a certain amount of time and usually they don't want to be there longer than they need to. This takes a special kind of management, extra work, all of this stuff. So, just to say my wife's in
Airbnb and like you said, that's a red ocean. It's oversaturated. It seemed like they're trying to regulate it to death where co living is something that's as far as property management goes, there's no more additional work. It's a different type of property management, but it's different from my wife with the Airbnb. Who's paying a cleaner to come clean the hot tub. Who's doing all kinds of little extras here and there. These are mainstream renters who just want to live in a house
without signing the lease with a bunch of strangers. So just in the sense of having in mind what this is, because it's definitely like, could students live in co living? Sure. But it's not student housing as far as how I define co living. Could, could somebody who is poor live in a co living house? I have plenty of people who are in my houses who would be considered poor, but it's different from a rooming house or a rebranded boarding
house. So, is, is that sometimes I'm confusing. I don't explain it well enough and people have kind of an idea in their head of, of of, you know, the, the house down the block with a bunch of people smoking out front. Right. That's kind of like the slum nord situation is JD. Is there anything you thought maybe I've been confusing on?
No, I think you're kind of clarifying things a little bit because when you do, to be honest, when you said co living, the first thing came to mind and I called that out right away is in being in a college town. Typically what I see is, is co living situation with a bunch of college kids, but you're actually looking at more of long term residents who just simply enjoy the company of others and they want to live in a house with others. Yeah.
And can you remember back when Airbnb, like people didn't even know the name or say like Uber people and people were like, were, were you one of those people that was like, yeah, I'll go stay in an Airbnb or were you kind of weirded out by it for a little while? No. Well, I, yeah, I kind of jumped on fairly early, but then that was because I was looking for cheaper ways to, to travel at the time. That was the
case. You would get kind of a deal. You can move, go into, to an area and get an inexpensive place to stay for, for a week. Now, more time, week. Now, more times than not, it's gotten a lot more expensive. And you mentioned the regulations associated with it. My wife has 3 units in Estes park, Colorado, which is what you go through to get into Rocky Mountain National Park. And those things are not cheap. I was all about it. It's a lower cost and you get a
fantastic place. It's, you know, the reason I ask is this trend, the co living trend, it's a new thing. It actually started around 2,003. It really picked up steam about 2010, 2011, which is 1 Airbnb, Lyft, Uber, all of these sharer economy got going. But us individual investors, we didn't really know about it. It was just something that's very grassroots and happening. Now, big data that, you know, hedge fund investors, big money has access to. They've been pouring 1,000,000 of dollars
into the co living market since 2012. That was the, so $256,000,000 plus invested since 2012. But they have access to data that the rest of us were just, it's just starting to bubble above the surface. Even the term co living. When I started my company, I called it community living homes because there wasn't the term co living. We didn't know what to call it. I feel like one of those things though. It's just to say it's, something, a new thing always
has to be kind of misunderstood. But the fun thing about this phase is can people, is my wife making money on Airbnb without a doubt who made the most money on Airbnb, the people who got in early when it was really happening. And that's, what's the thing with co living it. It's like I put a little bit of work into co living and I get massive returns on it. And I mean, that makes anybody feel fantastic. Not to mention the service to society. Could you let's go to the buy
box? Like what type of property are you looking for to that's ideal for this type of thing? Yeah. So, picture a normal neighborhood, AB level neighborhood in, in a, in a normal house in that neighborhood. It's probably going to be on the corner lot, because you want to have plenty of parking. What I suggest is looking at a 5 bedroom, 3 bath because this house typically can be a 7 bedroom, 3 bath. We don't
go larger than 11 bedrooms. There are big houses out there, some old Victorians, some fantastic, beautiful houses that have plenty of bathrooms, plenty of all that stuff. When you go more than 11 bedrooms, when you get to 12, there starts to be 2 households, like 2 groups in the house. And it's not bad. It's just a little confusing to manage.
At the same time, when you go lower than 7 bedrooms, this might seem like a lot to people, but if you go lower than 7, it's actually kind of challenging because responsible adults are not home very often. They're at work, they're at the gym, they're out with friends. And so, when you have less than 7 people, like I have a 6 bedroom and a 4 bedroom that our property management company manages, Those have the toughest time because renters
prefer to see each other. And if you have 7 people, then usually at least one other person has a schedule like yours. You know, these people moved into a house because they want to see others and they just feel like they live in a big empty house by themselves. So, yeah, normal house and normal neighborhood, no more than 3 bedrooms per one bathroom. And beside that, I bought everything rent ready off the MLS with a realtor, with conventional financing, or sometimes I've done VSCR,
but it's a really cool setup. And I would say one of the coolest things is anybody who's into house hacking, CoLiving puts house hacking on steroids. So, I mean, holy cow. You can get I do a DSCR loan. It takes me $80,000 to get the same house I could get with 16 or $20,000 And then I just partner with somebody and then it costs me no money. So, yeah, that's it's now with buy box. Is there anything else that you think would be helpful or did
I cover the main points? No, I think you covered the main points there. You mentioned that you're in Colorado. Is that your primary market? Yeah. We're we're Colorado and in Texas. And then we just got into Jacksonville, Florida as well. But Colorado is where I, where I started. Okay. So, and we're gonna later half of this show. I'm I'm gonna put you on the spot, and we're gonna kinda go through the numbers here a little bit so we can have an idea as to how how this
works. But before we get into it, I wanna remind everybody again, you could learn more about this in detail by going to livingsmithpro.com/mastermind. Livingsmithpro.com/mastermind. I'm gonna have that as a clickable link in the show. If you found some value in what we're talking about so far, do us a quick favor, share this with one of your investor friends. And if you're watching us on YouTube, give us a quick like and subscribe. So, Brad, we can we can go in a number of
directions here. Now I'd like you to kind of run through the numbers if you wouldn't mind. Like, let's let's say, and, you know, I hate to give this typical, but since you're in 3 different markets, I'm sure the numbers are kind of all over the place on some of this, but you you're mentioning, you know, $23100 rent versus I think you were even in the $56100 rent in some situations. Could you talk a little bit about how you price these rooms and how some of these numbers kind of flush out?
Yeah. Yeah. And, in the room, the room rental rate is very, is actually a really independent thing from, normal just single family residence market rate or for that matter, apartments, anything. So to say pretty much any market you're in. So say Jacksonville, you know, is a lower cost market where I'm going to buy that same house in Denver, Colorado area. So, Jacksonville houses, I've got one
under contract right now for 420,000. I was to buy that in the front range, Denver, Colorado, all of that area, that would cost me around 750 thousand. So if I I'm going to get a lot more cash flow in one than the other, but that being said, room rates are going to be about the same. They're always going to be between 700 and a $1,000 even if you're downtown Boulder or Austin. But usually, they're going to be 750, 800, or 850.
So, the easy way to know if you just look at a house that, anybody listening, if you have a house for reds, or if you're underwriting the house or analyzing the house to see if you want to buy it, just take the number of 4 bedrooms and multiply it by $750 And if that amount of income because your expenses are going to be virtually the same, same mortgage, more or less, same utilities, same taxes, etcetera. But if that's compelling enough to dig into co living, then
boom. A great thing to do is just to do it traditional. Right. But if you get one of these houses that can crush it for you in co living, I mean, we're talking 5 to 10 X, the, the profits, right? Because revenue might be 2 to 3 X, but the profit is. Well, one of the things that's interesting me here is that in a traditional, at least in my market, the traditional single family home as a rental, you know, I'm talking about maybe on the high side, $300 a month in net cash flow that could get
wiped out if the AC goes out. Or is So you're you're kind of in a more of a unique situation here when you're renting by the room and and the dollar amounts here are actually pretty striking. Can you talk a little bit about the difference there as to what do you provide as the landlord and what is on the residence? Because I would have to think that there's some shared expenses or something going on here. Yeah. What are great questions. There's going to be about $50 of expenses a month, not at
max, I should say, $50 a month. So, what we do when we set up a house and a house setup is very important because we set up these houses. So, they mostly run themselves. The kind of quality renter that is going to move in and turn that home into a cherished place they love and don't want to leave. That's the kind of person who really does want to run their own household, right? This group of people living together, they want to make it
easy on. They don't want you micromanaging. They don't want somebody who's running an Airbnb house that's stopping by and dropping off chocolates. It's like, no, this is their house. But as far as the setup goes and what works the best is all of the common areas. So, everywhere besides the private bedrooms are furnished. Just think with common, pretty normal stuff. I usually get used furniture, used kitchen tables, that kind of stuff. It's easy to pick up. It's usually
closer than going to the store. And then there's going to be storage shelves that get put in the garage because you don't want to have everybody have to keep all their stuff in the room. And then, you know, anything that's in the common areas. So for instance, toilet paper or kitchen utensils, that kind of stuff is going to be provided by the investor, the homeowner, or
the property management company. So they're going to provide those. They're going to keep an eye on them, but really the house members are going to take care of the stuff. They're going to clean the house. They're going to use the lawnmower. They're going to do all of this stuff because that's part of the joy of them getting to be in a house. When you're at your house, maybe not everybody wants to mow the lawn, but 1 or 2 people
in the house are probably going to be fighting about mowing the lawn. And that's why if you drive by one of these co living houses, the only thing, ah, you would notice is it's probably the best lawn in the neighborhood. Right? Because when you have 7, 8 responsible adults, that house is clean. That house is a great yard and they might be the ones throwing a little block party for the neighbors. Right? This is something that where neighbors either don't know
about it. They don't notice it, or they particularly enjoy it. You mentioned that it's kind of a utopia situation with these tenants, but with that many people too, you're going to run into some conflict. How do you handle that? And I'm sure there's going to be some complaints about so and so is not holding their end up with a bargain here. Yeah. I call what you just asked the $256,000,000 question, or I should say $226,000,000 Basically, how
do you get people who get along? There was back when I was managing my own properties. Now I have a property management company that does it, but in 2018, when I was still the one going to the houses, get everything set up, there was this guy who called up and he said that he regrets to inform us that he lives with Satan and in Satan's name is Tim. And so, right. This Tim was an, another house member, right? A co renter. And, this guy's name was John and he just like, you gotta get Tim out of
here. He's an awful guy and all of this stuff. Right. And then it wasn't surprising that I also got an email a day or 2 later from Tim. Tim said he also lived with the antichrist and that guy's name is John. Well, that following Tuesday, and this was in Longmont, Colorado for anybody familiar there, the kind of the good tacos there, but they went to Taco Tuesday together, and they've been going to Chalky Tuesday. As far as I know to this date,
they are like best buds. And do you know what happened between taco Tuesday and, you know, when they were messaging the property management about, you know, the other being, being like Lucifer? Somebody took the other person's hot sauce.
Well, I have no clue what happened. And this is a really important thing to anybody who wants to manage co living properties is that these guys, just like every human everywhere, when a relationship is forming, it doesn't matter how superficial, whether it's a coworker, but somebody you're regularly around enough, there has to be a little bit of friction. Otherwise, you will never have trust or mutual appreciation. That's almost without fail. And so, conflict is actually not a problem. It
means that good things are happening in the house. But if the property manager steps in and tries to help, 1, they need to butt out. It's not their business. 2, it's taking the property managers like time. That's exhausting. But the third thing and the most important thing is the property manager is robbing these guys from the ability to work it out themselves when conflict happens and you work it out yourself, it not only builds that relationship, but like individually, you just
feel fantastic. You're like, I thought that was the end of the world. And in regards to that circumstance, the $226,000,000 question is there's as far as all of this co living hedge fund investing is there's been, I think, 7 companies that have totaled 226,000,000 that have failed because they keep trying to solve tenant conflict with software or they set up this one company set up a 24 hour a day hotline, where if you are in a conflict with the person you're renting
with, you can call them. Could you imagine getting a call at 2 am from strangers you've never heard of that are in a fight because they rent a house together. Like, cool. Right. But, yeah, so just to say the I get that I should answer real, like how do I do this? It's not because I, you know, have a magic, you know, conflict resolution wand. It's when I lived with the hippies for 20 years, the intentional living community, the hippies, communes, co op world,
they have ways to resolve conflict. I adopted a thing called the 5 15 process. It's a 10 minute conversation that people have between themselves and the household handles that the property management company doesn't. So do our houses have conflict in them? Well, of course you need conflict, but does it, is that conflict become a problem? No, because the households figure it out. And if there's a person who's not willing to do their part and they kind of become a bad apple, then that
household will remove that person. So, Hey, it keeps the household safe and the property manager doesn't have to pour their time down the drain. You kind of led me into what I was gonna ask you next. Were you just mentioned the household can remove that individual. What type of power or authority do you give the tenants to actually make these type of decisions on finding their next roommate or in this case, actually removing somebody who may be a consistent problem?
Yeah. So, well, there's this one gal, her name's Lori. She's been in that. I think she moved in like 8 years ago. And when she moved in, what did she most want to? Was it the property? Well, yeah, but she wanted to see who she was going to live with. So what we have is we always have a house member give the tours. This saves us time. A house member met Laurie, showed her around. Laurie saw the chore board hanging on the dining room wall. Okay. We all do 20 to
60 minutes chores a week. And Laurie's like, holy smokes. That's why this place seems so clean. And then it also blew Laurie's mind because the house was quiet. It was great, and there was 10 people living in the house. Like, holy smokes. And so you're asking about how do housemates have a do do they have a a say in who moves in basically this person that gives the tour, they then text back to the property manager, just a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Right? So the property manager is
not discriminating. They're they're, they're not violating any rules. They're doing the exact same thing with every person. And if this person who does the tour gets a thumbs up, it says that person fits, you know, and as long as they pass the background checks and just our normal best practices and in screening residents, then they get offered a lease. And then as far as, you know, with Lori, right? She had a great experience
because she had to meet somebody in the house. She saw the house. She loved that there was chores. She didn't want to have to do all the cleaning. Right? And so she moved in there and she now become that person who gives tours. They're just a volunteer because then they, they kind of, they kind of, the house trust that person to, you know, to, to pick out good people. This person doesn't, they're not a manager. They don't have extra responsibilities or authority, but they do have, you
know, they represent the house's interest. If a person would be a good fit or not. You know, early on, we talked about the regulations that are kind of, strangling the short term rental market a bit. Do you see Thing like that coming your way regarding this, or is there anything that we should be aware of before we attempt this in our local markets? Oh, it is. So here's, what's amazing. Like the power of legislation trends, which is just working terrible
against Airbnb. It's actually the opposite in regard to co living is now there's a legislation trend that is absolutely
protecting co living. So, for example, in Colorado, before I would have said, hey, you know, make sure and we have a chat GPT cheat code that you can find out how many unrelated adults can be in place because when you do your due diligence, you know, this is one extra step to find out, make sure you're being legal, but effective July 1st this year, every law that could limit co living has been banned in Colorado. This has happened in Oregon and Washington and Iowa and New York and California
cities like in Austin. Let me see. I think Madison. But just to say this legislation trend is so it's perfect for co living because people realize, holy moly, like we have housing inventory shortage and co living doesn't just talk about eventually building something, eventually fixing something. It immediately is a solution. So, yeah, as Airbnb is getting beat over the head by legislation, for us co living investors, We're just
riding this wave. We're like, and this kind of legislation is happening in city councils and up to the state level, all over the place. I can't help, but notice that a lot of the states that you listed there are in obvious issues around housing shortages, as well as let's face fact, the economy isn't the best right now with buying a house yourself or even rental prices in an apartment. They're probably people are looking for cheaper ways to live. Yeah. So there's 2 things I've noticed
with people who rent in co living. Some are looking for cheaper places to live because they themselves are having financial problems. And this is what's rad about co living is you can provide lower cost housing without making it affordable housing or making it like housing for the poor. We have people who this one gal actually who I mentioned, Lori, nobody knew it, but us as property managers knew it. She was homeless the 2 years before she lived in a car with her 2 cats.
And that's not because she was unskilled or irresponsible person. The number one cause for homelessness is housing prices. And she lives in a house where there's a civil engineer and a college professor on the HVAC technician. I haven't checked up on the house since then, but to say is that is the case. But the other thing that's happening as well is people are realizing, man, I could spend this money on housing and I could
afford it. They could even live by themselves and even live in a nicer house, but they would rather spend money on travel or not have to work as much overtime or all of these things. Like basically they're choosing to spend their money elsewhere. And that's a thing that I think has happened because of the economy, even those of us with more money are valuing things different ways. Just to remind everybody one more time, head over to living smithpro.com/mastermind.
That's living smithpro.com/mastermind. There is a lot to unravel here. In fact, you're going to be putting on something on December 9th this year to help people with this. Can you talk a little briefly about that? Yeah. Thanks for having me do that is so co living just like anything that's powerful. It can make people a ton of money and provide massive service, but just like with real estate, leverage is so powerful in real estate, but if people don't understand it, they can really get
themselves in trouble. And I would say that same thing with co living. Co living is not, it doesn't work with traditional property management. It doesn't work with say short term or mid term property management. This is a new type of thing. It is managing a household of individuals. And so we're putting on a a free training. It's 5 days. It's 1 hour a day in the evening and me and my teaching team, we're just
going to bring the absolute most. We're going to show you show people how to that chat CPG code, as far as like, does this work with their regulations and you know, how I bought my first seven properties with not a penny of my own. And, and in what systems do you put in place and what furniture and how does the mail work and what about overnight guests or what about cameras or watch all of these questions that come up. How do you set up a house? So it really
runs itself and people thrive. The other cool thing in that link is there's a book in there. It's normally $28 on Amazon, but you can download it. Anybody who's listening to this and it's written by our renters because the best thing you can do if you want to make money is get to know your target market and people love this book. So yeah, we've got this free buy big training and I'm always having to like,
people are keeping asking questions once the hour has passed. And I'm always like, hi, I've got to, you know, take off to put my 2 boys to bed, but it's so exciting. It's just a really fun time for co living. Everybody wants it and it kind of absorbs a lot of the learning curve in the beginning because there's such a high cash flow. Yeah. You can learn more of that again at livingsmithpro.com/mastermind. Grant, Is there a question or concept you wish we would have covered
before we jump into the rapid fire? Wow. I think, you know, Tony Robbins says that the quality of a person's life depends on the quality of the questions they ask and be great, ask great questions. So now that we cover stuff a long time, but like you said, we could keep talking, you know, all this stuff's fun. Yeah, this is especially interesting. So I I'm probably going to have to, check out your event myself to that endless a little bit more.
But if you're ready, we'll jump into the rapid fire questions and close out this episode. I'm ready. Let's do it. What lie do real estate investors sometimes tell themselves? That buying a house is not worth it right now. If you could go back in time and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would that be? Biden, the urge to say, check out real estate earlier. I think my younger self, would have been to chill out and chill out. It's going to work out.
What book would you recommend? This is my all time favorite real estate book. It is called loopholes in real estate by Garrett Sutton. And what I learned from him just all across the board, I think has made it where for me, my assets are safe and my real estate investing. He really got me caught up on best practices. Yeah. And Garrett was just on the show. So just go a couple episodes back and you'll see him and his son, has a great conversation.
And then lastly, what single strategy process or tool have you implemented that has had the biggest time saving impact to you or your business? JD, I've gotta rise Garrett because he's his Sutton Law is like my main attorney that I use. And so anyway, that's really cool. I missed that episode. So that's really rad. Shoot. Now I got so thrown off by that. What was the question you
asked again? What single strategy process or tool have you implemented that has had the biggest time saving impact to you or your business? So Asana or any kind of project management software planning my week out ahead of time. Ideally, I only work 3 days a week, 5 hours a day, 6 months a year. But I can actually do the things that I want to. And at the end of the workday, I feel like that was excellent. And if I didn't get to everything, that's fine because I have a
plan so I can change that plan. So anything Asana's free, other things are free, but task management software for the win. So one thing that I I gotta we gotta spend a couple minutes on there is that you just said that you spend 5 hours a day, 3 days a week, and that's the financial freedom that I actually think people are trying to find.
Could you talk a little, just spend a few minutes talking about the perils and the work that it took to get to that point, because I feel like there's a lot of people that run ads and, make it sound like real estate is just mailbox money. And it's the simplest thing in the world. But talk about the heavy lifting that happened prior to that, to this point. Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest heavy lifting for me
was really some mindset stuff. I didn't, I grew, when I grew up, my parents were on boot stamps, that kind of thing, but just realizing that I can do something, but then having the audacity to do it. But in the beginning, when I was getting started, I moved maybe 26 times in 2 years. And that had to do with a form of investing we do called beyond house hacking with co living. But I didn't have a truck. I told you, like I had the shitty Prius, so I had to get
furniture. So I had strapped stuff to the top of the Prius, right? Like it's just making things work. But I would say the biggest thing is that real estate has been done for so long that it's easy to follow others and putting in the work is not tough as long as you're getting the results. And so, yeah, it took me, what was it? So for me, it was 15 months to get financial freedom. I kind of got lucky because of the whole living with hippies and the living thing. But that was, I
mean, every hour I was on it. Right. I was a lonely single guy. I was just working my guts out because at a certain point I wanted to have, you know, what I have. And to emphasize, it's not just the 3 days a week, 5 hours a day. That's only 6 months a year. And now it just worked because I really enjoy it. And that's what, and when that switches, because works great. Like if you get to do what you enjoy,
works great. In real estate, if whether it takes somebody 15 months or 10 years, that financial freedom is worth whatever number of hours somebody puts into it, if that's what you want. So that's my best on that. Well, a great way to end this episode, Grant. I really appreciate it. One last time living smithpro.com/mastermind. And, really appreciate your time here. This was a great conversation. I hope you'll consider coming back again sometime. I would absolutely love to be
invited back anytime. Thanks again for putting this quality show out here as this program. If you learned at least one actionable step to incorporate into your real estate investing? If so, please consider returning some of that value by leaving a positive review, subscribing to our YouTube channel, or joining our growing network on Facebook and Twitter. You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes. See you next time.