Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of real conversations about aging parents. This is your host, Rebecca. And I have a longtime friend and colleague with me here. Hi, Brittany. How are you? Good. How are you doing Rebecca? Good. I, you're, you're rubbing in the good weather up there for, for good reason, I think. So it's about a hundred, 105 here in late September in San Antonio. And, and you're up in the Midwest, right? I am up in the Midwest.
It's a mid sixties, a little bit of breeze, nice and sunny light jacket weather. I can't complain, although I'm sure I'll complain in a couple of months when we have a foot of snow on the ground. Right, right. Well, well, thank you for being with me today. I, um, I know you've been a big supporter of the project and, and, uh, this is a topic that is real for you and your life and your, your name came to mind because in capturing this entire issue or journey.
People are at different points of the journey and so I've interviewed a lot of people that have already gone through this and their parents have passed away and we're kind of reflecting back.
I've interviewed people that are right in the middle of it and for you, I see you as, as far as like a time spectrum, kind of at the very beginning of worrying or thinking about it even though I know nothing, severe has happened, but, um, I'm really interested in, in your mindset, what you worry about, what keeps you up. Um, and we'll get into that, but before we do all that, can you tell us just a little bit more about yourself, like what you enjoy doing, your hobbies, anything like that?
Sure. Yeah. So, um, I'm a doctor, you know, it's certainly how I met you was kind of through healthcare, um, moved up here to the Midwest with my family from Texas. So traded one season all year round for four seasons, a little bit of a different change of pace, change of weather. Um, I have a little toddler girl who's absolutely wonderful. And then.
Hobby wise, kind of anything outside, which is what the Midwest has really been great for trails, cross country skiing, sledding, all those things have been really fun since being up here. So, um, looking forward to a little bit change of weather here to enjoy some of that stuff too. Yeah. Yeah. You're mentioning the apple picking too. And that just seems like a storybook, uh, to be Apple. We went and picked apples and pumpkins and, uh, played on tractors and got apple doughnuts.
So, uh, yeah, so very, very Midwest day for us up here. Yeah. And I'm, and I'm, and I'm capturing you during a nap time. So I appreciate you creating space. Flexible with that. Unless you want toddler sounds in the background. No, no, I already have tortoise sounds in the background. I don't know if anybody could ever hear them, but I record next to my son's tortoise.
And, and I sometimes can hear it when I listen back to the podcast and I'm like, I don't know how to make this stop anyway, I'll have to listen to the tortoise now. Yeah. Yeah. Now everybody's gonna be paranoid. What's that, that banging sound in the back? And it's the tortoise. Um, anyway. Okay. So you're here because you're an adult child, uh, in the middle of a professional career and raising your own family and you, um, have parents. And we'll just start there.
What, what's the next part of that story? Yeah. So all, all the above, um, fortunately both of my parents are in pretty good health, you know, kind of mid to late sixties, they divorced about 10 years ago and They're both kind of in various stages of financial stability, but also denial, or I should say knowledge of the aging process and kind of aging in places. You've always beautifully said what that looks like.
I think when they were married, they had a lot of those conversations, but since they divorced, I don't think there's been much conversation on either of their part, kind of what that looks like as they get older. Um, my mom has a new partner. They're not. Not married, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was something to happen in the near future. Um, my dad still single. So both of those also bring kind of different dynamics.
So I think part of it is to us moving up here from Texas, knowing that if something happened to my parents or my husband's parents. We would be the adult children that would be the ones to step in physically and financially. And it's always a stressful conversation, but it's one thing when you're in the same state versus now that we're up in Wisconsin. I think we feel a little bit more of an urge to just kind of have these conversations sooner rather than later.
Um, and just kind of be prepared because, you know, yeah. Coming from the rehab world, like yourself, you know, you don't, you don't get a forewarning on these things. You know, there's either, I feel like there's either a gradual decline and everyone's kind of in denial for a while and kind of puts their head under the rug and then something catastrophic happens or. There's something catastrophic that you're not really anticipating like a young stroke or heart attack.
And you've got to have some tough conversations pretty immediately and probably never at a good point in life if there is such a thing. Right. Um, so I think we kind of feel that urgency to be as prepared as we can long distance. But I think one of the things I struggled with putting into words, which podcasts is also having these conversations with our parents.
Um, and I can speak much more to, but also my husband's parents who are also divorced while they have their mental capabilities while we can sit here and still talk about it, but also include the other adult children. So it's not like a one sided of, Oh, it's just us having these conversations, like really include everyone and actually ask them, you know, what do you want the end stages of your life to look like? I'm not just talking like palliative versus hospice, but okay.
What's your ideal scenario of. You know, you need a little help now and then you're 75. What does that look like? You know, are you okay with nursing homes assisted living? Do you want someone to come in and move in with you? You know, we haven't had any of those conversations. I've gotten a little bit of resistance about it. Um, I know it's not, you know, a happy conversation, but I, I, I, so I, I think a lot of it was the move up here.
Just kind of really put that in our face to try and be as Um, and I think it's you mentioned resistance. Can you get more specific? Like, did you tell? We'll talk first about your dad. So did you text your dad and say, I want to talk about this? And he wrote back like a sad face emoji or like, how did this actually look in real life? I haven't been that blunt. I think of I actually sat him and down and said, Hey, I'm going to talk about these things.
And this is why I think he'd actually be pretty receptive, but it's kind of like, Hey, dad, have you updated your well, your beneficiary for 401k, you know, all those things since the divorce. And he's like, no, I haven't even thought about that. Okay. Have you updated your MPOA? No, I don't need to do any of that. So it just kind of stops there. I think there's a little bit of I'm healthy, which he is. Thankfully I'll be fine forever. I have plenty of time type of thing.
And it's like, I certainly hope we have plenty of time, but that's, you know, kind of how we end up not having. Plenty of time is by what that mindset I feel like. Um, so I, I think if I sat him down, he'd be very receptive, especially if I told him it was something really important to me and to us to have these conversations. I think he'd be a little more receptive.
Now, he was actually the, um, in charge of his brother's finances and he was his brother's MPOA who passed away last year from cancer. Um, so I think he has a new understanding. My, my uncle was. You know, very on top of it legally as far as those things. He knew he had cancer. So he, you know, kind of set everything up pretty early on.
Um, but even that there was still plenty of headaches, which was a little surprising, but I mean, my dad was listed as his MPOA and they never talked about what that actually meant. So my dad didn't know what his brother actually wanted for end of life. He didn't know when he wanted to be DNR, DNI. They never had those conversations of kind of, okay, when do we need to change gears on our treatment plans? And it wasn't until my uncle, you know, was. A and O times one.
And, you know, they were talking about intubating and dialysis and, you know, end stage organ failure, pick all the organs that I kind of had to have a talk with my dad of, you know, you do what you think he would have wanted, but kind of, you know, I think this is where it kind of benefits sometimes to have someone medical in the family, be able to lay out for him what that actually meant.
And I think my dad felt a lot of stress and anguish about making those decisions without having talked about it first. Cause he actually, he had no, I had no idea what he would have wanted. They never talked about it. Um, so I think having that experience would give me a little bit more of a leg to stand on, at least with, with my dad about those things.
So when I'm, I'm listening to that and I do appreciate you sharing, I'm wondering in your brain, the difference between where you're sitting right now, having sent, you know, a couple of questions say about the will or something like that, and then actually sitting in front of him, what's the distance between those two points? Is it, is it your brain thinking, you know, I don't really want to talk about this or is it just like kind of float to the bottom of any busy to do lists?
Is it, um, you're not in town and so you want to make sure you're in town or something like that. I think it's a few things. I think it's easy, you know, for it to float to the bottom of, of any. Busy to do list. And it's not, you know, a to do item that you can check off in five minutes. Right. There's no dopamine for that, that checkoff. Yeah. It's one of those daunting to do items.
So I think that, and I think it's also something that, I mean, I could definitely preface with him before he, he would come up to visit, but I think it'd be much more meaningful to have some of those conversations in person, which, you know, being long distance puts a cramp in that. So it's not. Impossible. Um, so I, I think it's more of me also just initiating it and kind of pushing back past his initial. Oh, I don't need to do that. Or I'll get to it and then he changes the subject.
I think if I just sit down and push past it, I think he'll be pretty receptive. Um, and then I think also, at least, like, you know, 6 months ago, when all this started kind of brewing in our head, really was not, I felt like, you know, it's kind of you don't know what you don't know. Right, right. I knew we weren't prepared for the next. 10, 20, 30 years, whatever stage we end up in, but I didn't know what we weren't prepared about other than we hadn't talked about things.
Um, if that makes sense. So, I mean, yes, the will finances afterwards, but what about everything leading up? To that. So, and I, I think since listening to your podcast as well, it's, you know, definitely kind of given me some more description and some more tangible items of things to talk about. Um, I really enjoyed the one on, on elder law, cause it's just, I mean, having briefly brought up some of this with my dad and he was just like, well, Medicare, we'll take care of all of it.
And I'm like, well, no, yeah, no, not how this works. Um, and he was referencing like. 24 7 in home care or going to a facility and I was just like, so neither of that is true. Um, so I, I think me also learning what are some tangible things that I can bring up with them. So it's not also just as doom and gloom of. Hey, you're getting old. Let's talk about this, which is probably not a great way to bring any of it up.
One of the, um, very early things I did in this project, I put it out on my website and it was the download about how to have some of these conversations. And one of the things I really wanted to focus on.
Was to make it, um, another way for them to support you, because if it's like, let's, let's acknowledge that, that this is, you know, a difficult thing to acknowledge and we're going to make all these, um, arrangements, but the idea is, Hey, I know you care about me and I know you've always been concerned about. Me and I, I take this responsibility very seriously. And as part of that, I need your help, uh, to make sure I make good decisions for you. And then it's like a, a joint partnership.
It's not like, you know, coming in and, um, and saying, you know, well, you didn't do this and you have to do this or, you know, um, kind of in a, uh, Clinical standpoint, I guess, you know, but that connection. And so I think the language will have to vary by each family relationship and be and be specific. But even coming into the holiday season, I really like the idea of, you know, I don't need like a fancy toaster. I need us to sit down and talk for 30 minutes.
And that would mean everything to me because that's the kind of stuff in the middle you and I are in rehab. So in the middle of that chaos that we get to witness and rehab, the last thing somebody wants is a fancy toaster. They go back to the last 30 minute conversation they had with that person and they hang on every word. That they can recall. Yeah. And I think that's a beautiful way to put it as a joint partnership. And, you know, both my parents love us very much.
And so I know, especially phrasing it that way, even if they're kind of like, Oh, this is, this is a little silly. We don't need to do this. I think they would do it for us. But then hopefully also in the process, they would see some. Some value with it as well. And I really think they would, but you bring that up about the holidays and I've already thought of my mind of, Hey, I don't want any presence for the next however long. This is what I want.
You know, I want to have these conversations with you. And it doesn't have to be okay. We're going to do everything in one day. That's not possible, especially if you get legal stuff involved, but Okay. Let's just at least open these doors and get some of it laid out there. And maybe we'll make that our goal to kind of finish all this over, you know, 2024 or whatever it is. So it's not as daunting or there, you know, one trip up here it's to talk about, you know, depressing things.
So, uh, not to make this dark in any way, but if we're thinking about this, I don't want to be ageist in this idea that somehow this is only a unique issue for them when, uh, David and I are embarking on our own estate planning journey. And I'll be detailing that in the podcast and elsewhere. But I also think about my own kids. If something happened to us and I need to. Create a pathway for my parents or his parents to help my own children.
So this isn't like, okay, you're on the conveyor belt and you're like a stage ahead of me on a conveyor belt. So let's make sure you get taken care of. This is about the responsibility that, that we have to our own families as well. And then making it a cohesive, this is a way that our family cares about each other. By making this easy, um, should something catastrophic happen.
And so going through the, uh, estate planning, then we, David and I decide for our own children, um, if something happened to us and we do travel a lot together without our kids, which is a risk factor, right? Um, You know, then I want, uh, that to be set up as well. And my, my, my parents would be involved with, with their guardianship or their support, or, you know, it would, they, I would need them, uh, and they're, they're healthy as well.
And so it's, it's not so much like, okay, you're the one getting old and I'm the young one. And so now we've got to get together and talk about this. I'm like, what if we just talked about this longitudinally throughout our generations and figured out what that looked like. To protect people. Um, and not even if it even if there's not money involved, the idea is there's still a lot of legal work that becomes very inconvenient.
And so when people tell me, you know, I don't really need to think about that. I'm really healthy. I always want to, you know, depending on the conversation, I say, I know you don't want to think about it, but the state will make a lot of assumptions for you if you don't declare.
And, um, depending on people's different opinions of the government, It'll be like, no, the government will decide that there are laws of what will happen with all these things and they will make it can make it very difficult for your family members to engage and support and make decisions without certain paperwork involved. And I'm like, Oh, the government, I don't want the government making decisions for me. Okay, well then.
There's a process to tell ahead of time through legal documents, what you want to happen. And that's, that kind of gets back to the point is, um, just even our own personhood, our own autonomy is spoken for through these documents, especially the living will, right? Which is what you want done in the setting of an illness. Um, and that's you speaking for yourself later.
And I think people realize, or they think to themselves, well, if I, if I'm healthy and I don't want to think about it, It'll go away. And the point is, there's already a default set of assumptions. Even in medical care that we have to make if there's no paperwork saying otherwise, right? And so it's like, once we remind them of that, the default is it nothing. It's not no decision. The decision is already made. You have to get documentation to move and be more specific.
If you don't want sort of the general anyway. So I think about that because I always, in the podcast, I don't want to ever come across like we're, you know, the adult children pushing the, you know, um, aging parent into this idea is this is a, uh, a hygiene thing for everybody, but it becomes more relevant and much more higher, um, higher risk of becoming relevant. Higher likelihood, you know, absolutely.
And I think you said it well, and I think, you know, listening to that, you know, one thing that you asked earlier is kind of, you know, What started kind of our wheels turn in this direction, maybe subconsciously was that just, you know, we have a one and a half year old daughter is kind of, well, before her, you know, there's a default, everything just goes to the other partner, you know, just have the beneficiary box check, no big deal. Now things are a little more complicated.
Um, and so thinking about it from her perspective, you know, also on my ever growing to do list is to, you know, update our, our state for For that reason, and I know it's no longer just, all right, who gets the dogs? It's a little, it's a guardianship. Yeah. It's a guardianship. And like, you know, we know who we would want to be though that those people, and it would not be who the government would pick by default. Right.
Um, and so that's, you know, It's not just really our, our focus right now is our parents. Cause you know, there's. More than one of them. And so we, we, we got four sets to chisel down here, but also with ourselves, but we can at least hopefully, you know, get our stuff done a little quicker because we don't have to convince anyone. We've already convinced ourselves. He has gotta, you know, somehow make time to do it Monday through Friday, nine to five. But so what are you most worried about?
With, with regard to being an adult child, uh, out of state with a career and a kid managing four sets of your, you know, parents and in laws and step and all that stuff. I think what we're most worried about is something catastrophic happening. Whether that's.
You know, if someone has a heart attack in the next year, so, you know, heart attack in their sixties and they're left pretty disabled afterwards, or it's this slow decline and we're flying down at midnight, you know, a couple of times a year for, you know, a fall and landing in the hospital, but whatever, you know, event happening, these things happening without any prior discussion. So prior discussion of what are their wishes of. You know, do you want to stay in Texas?
Do you want to come move in with us? What do you want? But also just any knowledge from our perspective of where, what, what, what, how should I say this? What all the legal things are set up to be, you know, should something happen? And I'm not. Listed as, you know, someone that can be on your accounts. I know that process is pretty long. I mean, goodness, just even selling someone's car after they pass, if that's not in the will, and you're not on the title is a whole nightmare by itself.
So these little things that seem little by themselves, but are actually pretty big or, Hey, who is your mortgage set up with? So I can make sure that's to get paid while you're in the hospital. So. I think it would be something catastrophic happening without any conversations about their wishes or knowledge about their finances.
So we can best support them, whether they're in the hospital or it's an, you know, a tough end of life discussion, kind of where you go from from there, especially when we. Both have siblings and we want them to be involved in those conversations, but we know we would be the ones more likely kind of taking the lead on those decisions, but we would still want everyone to feel like they have been included on them. Why do you feel like y'all would be the ones taking the lead?
We... Kind of have for a lot of family things. Um, both of our, our siblings are pretty busy with, with where they are right now. And they both kind of struggle with making difficult decisions. And they both said that they would like to support us as best as they can. And they want to be there with, you know, as parents, as they age, they're also somewhat aware of this process. But I think emotionally, it would be Not that it wouldn't be hard on us, but I think it would be pretty hard for them.
And one of them lives out of state and has a kiddo that needs some medical attention. So, you know, logistically, that's a pretty big barrier by itself. But, you know, it's just as, you know, when tough decisions happen in stressful situations, I know it can be, as you and I have both seen, it can be really, it can get contentious with families. But maybe. could have been somewhat avoided if things have been talked about before and we wouldn't want that to happen with our families either.
And I, um, wanted to circle back to you just mentioning, uh, selling a car. So somebody needed a lot of extra help and you needed, um, you know, money to get a caregiver in the house, which is expensive. Um, and you were going to try to, to sell the car. We also have to remember the person trying to sell the car and get the caregiver is, is in grief. And in a, in a stress reaction and their life is turned upside down trying to help that other person.
So it's not just any person like, Oh, let's go through the bureaucratic process of selling the car when you don't have the title or whatever. It's like, let me take the person who's already at. The end of their rope and doing their own grief reaction. Oh, and add that. So, so I, just to, just to make it even more important to highlight that what we're asking somebody to do at that point, they're not in the best condition to do that.
And we can't think of them like they are today thinking, Oh, it'd be easy for Brittany to figure this out. Right. Well, no, and you know, it's, it's funny. I use that example because my uncle who passed again had probably 99 percent of things very well set up financially and legally. But ironically, the one thing he never mentioned anywhere in his. State or any or will was his car.
Um, and it sounds funny and hindsight, but, you know, after he passed, my, my uncle had, you know, said the days before he passed. Oh, just do what you want with the car because he realized he forgot to kind of included anything. It's like, all right, well, that sounds easy enough. Everyone's on really good terms in the family. No one's going to question that. We'll just sell it, you know, help with expenses, whatever it is. Um, well, we was.
And so here we are, everyone's grieving after a passing, going through his apartment and trying to find every little piece of paper to just find a car title that only had his name on it. And then you couldn't. Sell it until you got the death certificate and the death certificate took months to get right. And then you had to go down to the courthouse and show all these documents. And then they would add you to the title. Um, well, they did that with my dad, but then they misspelled his name.
So then he wasn't actually, and in the meantime, he's just, you know, trying to, he's grieving. He just really wants everything done. He's just trying to, you know, close this chapter, at least financially get everything on. So he can grieve emotionally. And so it sounds funny in hindsight, but it really was this drawn out thing. And it is something that should be so simple, you know, Hey, my loved one said I could just sell their car. Well, there's actually a lot involved with it.
Um, So it's, it's just, I think it's just appreciation of something that should be simple. Never is in the moment when the person who legally owns these things, whether it's accounts, PO boxes, you know, the, their name is on the mortgage. If they don't have capacity, getting any of those things changed over to someone else, it's incredibly difficult and time consuming and expensive. Um, so I think it's just a, you know, an appreciation for how difficult of a process those things can be.
Well, um, thank you for following up so that that was a real life example. So, um, let's talk a little bit more about your mom. So what's different about your mindset with your mom? Yeah. So I think a little similar as far as when you, you asked that great question about what the resistance is. I think it's more of, you know, I bring it up and she's like, oh yeah, things are, things are changed since the divorce. And it's like, okay, well. You know, did you do X, Y, and Z?
And she's like, well, no, I don't need to do that. And it's like, well, I mean, so I, I think she has something set up, but I think, you know, she goes from one conversation of, saying she has enough finances to provide 24, seven care for the last 10 years of her life. If she wants to. She has nothing like that saved up. So it's like just giant spectrum of, all right, mom, where are you? Where are you on here? So again, obviously, you know, divorced my dad about 10 years ago. Um, still.
Legally single, although she does have a partner who they are, you know, very happy together there. They don't they don't live together, but I could certainly see them getting married in the next couple of years. He also has adult children, um, and having.
You know, kind of asking her of not to be a, it's, it's an interesting role reversal as a daughter, but kind of asking her if, you know, is she happy where she sees us going, but kind of also, and, you know, asking if there is marriage in the future, what, you know, estate planning looks like. And it's just kind of like, oh, well. We don't need to worry about that.
It's like, well, yes and no, it's, you know, however you guys want to do things, but also when it comes to end of life discussions, you know, if you guys haven't had those conversations, I'm not trying to insert myself there, but.
You know, how, how can I be of help to that, but I also want to know what your end of life wishes are because she has, I know she has me legally listed as her MPOA, but I think there's also kind of this misconception that I think you kind of touched on in previous podcasts of dying is, you know, an, an overnight thing. It's like, well, there's usually this tough decline.
So whether it's acute, you know, on chronic decompensated heart failure, and then all these other things happen in your septic. It's not a 24 hour thing. Usually, you know, there's a slow, gradual decline in the hospital and none of it's pretty. So actually having those conversations of okay, at what point. You know, do you want a feeding tube or antibiotics or intubation? I think she just thinks it's, Oh, I'm going to go in and be sick. And then the next day I just won't be here.
It's like, well, usually not that case. So I think similar to my dad and that we just haven't really had those conversations and I think she would be very receptive if I did bring them up. Just the little, you know, curve ball for her is her potentially having, you know, a husband in the next.
A few years, and certainly a lot of these conversations, you know, I, I don't mean to get in their relationship at all, but I think they're important to have, especially when you have a later in life marriage and adult children involved on both perspectives. I'm glad you said that because, um, actually it was Renee in one of the very first podcasts I did brought this up and I pointed this out to me because she also has divorced parents and in the new coupling, right?
So if you have a parent that remarries. Then that's a new legal relationship. And if your parent, your biological parent, passes away, then, uh, the assets go to your current step parent. Correct. And if that person passes away, then the assets go to their children. And so, the biological children of the first person to pass away can be disinherited. Correct. Very easily.
Now, assuming there's, you know, I don't come from a community with assets and estates and money, so it's not really a big deal. But if you're looking at people that have built a lot of assets over their lifetime, you could easily see them flow around their own children and grandchildren just by default. Again, this is not like.
And then the biological children of the person who's passed away have no, um, I mean, I'm sure that they could try to, try to finagle this or sue or something in those, in those settings. But the idea is it's a, it's a, it's a legal flow of assets and it's not set up, then that's the default and people don't. Really realize. Correct. And actually I brought that up with her. Um, and she was kind of like, Oh, there's no way that's actually how it is. I'm like, Oh, I'm not a lawyer.
However, pretty sure this is how it is, but I kind of used it as like, you know, maybe we should, you know, kind of talk about this. And, and I told her, I was like, you know, I'm not telling you what to do with your, your money. And I'm kind of like yourself, Rebecca, we don't have giant assets floating around, but it's more of just having that, that conversation of if that's what you're okay with. Great.
But if that's not, or maybe it's not a money thing, but there's some heirlooms or some family jewelry or whatever it is, having those conversations so that that's not the natural default, you know, either way. And there's a good chance, you know, his adult children. We may only meet a couple of times. I mean, we, we live across the country, you know, later in life marriages, it's a different dynamic than, you know, when you, your parents get remarried when you're still in the house.
So yeah, it's just a different curve ball to talk about that. I don't think she realizes those implications either. And not going back to something else you had said about having funding for 24 hour care. I think it's important for people to know the estimates of actually providing that in home at any level of quality is about 150, 000 a year. Oh, no, I absolutely.
And I think for my dad's kind of made some offhand comments about like, well, I'll just do that, you know, either Medicare, I'll pay for it. And he's been a little more open about his finances with myself. And I'm like, I, you don't, that's, that's, that's not an option, right? Unless, unless he got a goldmine, you're not telling me about that's not an option. Um, so I think that's also where I really liked the idea of having.
And from my understanding, this was where this person would come in, but having an elder law attorney to kind of bring up some of these conversations as well and kind of give these actual realistic scenarios. Now, again, not to be doom and gloom, but okay, if scenario A is what you want, how are we going to protect your assets or how are we going to manage that so that it actually can happen?
Or if you do want 24 seven care and you have the finances, do we need to go ahead and put your adult children on whatever account this is? Because again, what if, That needs to take place when, you know, you have a UTI in your septic or, you know, when, when you don't have the mental capabilities to make some of those financial decisions or to kind of, uh, to, yeah, to really push the button on, on being able to do that.
So I think that would be helpful from all of their perspectives, because I don't think they understand. Truly what the actual financial options are. And I'll say this. Um, when I developed the, the course that I have, the fifth module, it's the final module is that exactly. And it starts with a document of like, where, what can we talk about? And it's a list of like, what are you, like, just start somewhere. Right. Can we talk about, um, financing personal care? Can we talk about hygiene?
Can we talk about your thoughts about assisted living? And then it starts with that document. And then behind that, I spent a lot of time going through these intricate conversations, um, and it's a line by line discussion of like these question prompts, like, okay, if you needed a shower, would you want?
Um, a caregiver to do it, or is it okay if your spouse or your child does it and, and, and I know this sounds silly, but these are, these are, um, people's personal, um, you know, comfort levels and their wishes. I mean, it's like the, like, what, what do you want? I mean, assuming these things can be controlled for. And so I really ended up writing that with, with this exact conversation of mine, which would be, how can we facilitate these conversations and maybe putting them out on paper?
Um, depersonalizes it just enough to be able to open up the gate to say, okay, well, this, somebody else wrote this, but now we can go through and fill it out like a little worksheet or something. Um, but I really think that's where we need to be at some point, um, is to approach it almost like we do any other administrative decision, quote unquote, we make in our life, because it's the most important one and does dictate our experience towards the end of our lives. Right.
Um, and even if the answer is, I get this sense from my own dad, which is like, just you do whatever you think. Do what you think is right. Like you're a doctor and like, you know, and like, I trust you. And so I'm like, okay, good. Um, I guess that's good. So anyway, um, that, that is also another sentiment, but even that he said that I'm like, well, okay, well I trust my, I mean, I know what I would want.
Um, and I'm in the process of spelling that out myself, so I would just make it similar, I guess. So anyway, No, and you brought up something I was going to say to, you know, I don't know if you ever experienced this, but as you know, being a physician for my parents, it's or not for my parents, but, you know, I'm, I'm the only medical person in the family.
Um, so I get the random phone calls to diagnose rashes, even though I'm a pain doctor, I'm nothing to do with rashes or the random ingrown toenail, you know, you get those questions, but I think when it kind of comes to these. Bigger things like, you know, someone being borderline diabetic or cholesterol, not being great or medical decision making for end of life. It's, it's almost this, well, that's when they see me as.
The daughter, not the doctor of kind of like, well, you know, that's when it's like, when it's the serious things, it's like, I'm, I'm the kid in their eyes still. And so now they don't trust me or don't believe me, but it's like, well, okay, but let's ask someone else. Right. I think there's a little bit of that too, you know, I'm always going to be their daughter first.
And even though these things are hard, I think it's hard for them to see me in this role 100%, which is where I think it would be. That's why I think it's really valuable to get almost a third party involved, whether that's through elder estate planning or using your course, just kind of having a more objective third eye, if you will.
Um, because there's only so much that I'm going to be able to provide them in direction because there's a lot that I don't know either, you know, just about, you know, if you qualify for a Medicaid bed and in Texas, you know, you have to have less than 2000 to your name. So what do you do with your house and your other assets? I don't know. I don't know the answers to those, but I don't want us to have to figure out last minute. I was like, that's a, that should be a low surprise period of life.
You don't want any assumptions and surprises when you're trying to navigate these complex like insurance and government funded programs. I mean, that's not a good time. And I, I, I wonder, I've always, one of the things I've thought we've always had in common is you and I are both organized and try to execute things in a certain way.
And I've always looked at this part of my life like, I like to have it done and then I can relax and it's like, then I hope nothing ever happens and then I could, I could lean into the hope. I hope nothing bad happens to any of us ever. But if it does, then this is ready and I, and I think that's a completely different approach to life. Then other, other people, I think, or maybe, um, uh, a different temperament of, let's just see what happens.
Let's just like, let's just go through and like, let's hope for the best. And, uh, and I, I bring this up when I talked to my, my dad in that podcast and I pushed about, you know, whether or not, what if he needed a nursing home? And he's like, like, basically I'll leave it up to God. And God wouldn't do that to me. And I let, and that's, I appreciate the sentiment. But, like, from an executive planning standpoint, right? Like, that's not something I could write into my plan here.
Like. Well, and where does that leave you when you're the one that's going to be making that, I mean, depending on what his status is, you're going to be making a significant portion of that decision, or at least providing, you know, a listening ear for him to, if he's going to be making that decision, but where does that leave, leave you, you know, as far as a multiple choice, you know, answers in life, that's not one of them.
We, we, we can, we can hope that that is how it is and there's some beautiful ending, you know, maybe it's in a hot air balloon, but yes, you know, yes, but realistically you don't get to choose that. So if that's not the case, then what is a step by step plan for yourself, but also your loved ones.
Um, because you know, when these things happen, like I said, let's say we need a, your Medicare days run out and you need to qualify for a Medicaid bed, but you still have assets, you know, none of that's going to happen overnight or, you know, on a Saturday when these things typically need to happen, there's no lawyer on call or whoever to help you figure it out. So I think it's important to have those conversations ahead of time as best as you can, right? Right. Cause it's not easy.
I wish it was. No, no, but it's like, you know, it's at some point if we take the emotion, the emotions are strong. At the end of it, it's, it's just like you're planning anything else. And, and I, and it's almost like we have to use a different part of our brain and we're like, Oh wait, but this is about my parents and mortality, and that makes me question my own mortality. So then I know when to do it.
And, and the thing is, if it's still about serving your family and still about showing up for them, even when you can't, I mean, how awesome is that? So it was David and I go through and write this estate. It's my opportunity to show up for my own children when I can't, like, that's like, to me, like a double win, right? Because that's the best it survives. Right. I mean, it does survives. Yeah. And that's certainly how we look at it too, when it comes to our own.
Daughters making sure she set up for success, but also her guardians in the middle of this, you know, difficult process, heaven forbid, there's at least 1 less thing for them to have to worry about or fight or whatever it is. Um, so setting all of them up. As best as we can as a gift that lives on without us. Right. Um, so you're right.
It's not just, you know, an ageist thing, so to speak, which I think my parents also think I'm calling them old when I, when I bring this up, they're mid to late 60s. So in my mind, they are by no means in that category. However, being in rehab, you know, catastrophic events. don't have an age bias. Right, right. And I've mentioned this before, but I mean, you and I have both seen even people in their 60s or 70s turn around and take care of.
A car, you know, a child or something that has been, uh, involved with that, man, this is, I, I, I don't want this podcast to get a reputation is too depressing, but I think it's really important. Um, and I, and I want to make sure that it, you know, it stays a conversation and, um, and, and you engaging with me like this is perfect and exactly what, um, I hope to be putting out there. So, um, before we wrap up here, any.
Other lingering, um, tidbits or insights or lessons learned from your standpoint? Not yet. I mean, I'll, I'll be curious to see what lessons I and tidbits and pearls I have as we go through this process. I admit it's a little daunting for myself of, you know, like I said, none of this is going to be solved in an afternoon. Um, but I, I look forward to being able to at least have these conversations with our family members.
And I, I think, uh, You know, hopefully a hidden benefit with it would be, you know, we're already close, but getting closer with them and in that process, you know, maybe kind of learn some things about each other, but yeah, no, I just thank you for bringing these topics to light and providing this, these podcasts, I think it's a very, very much needed area that needs a lot of attention. I appreciate that.
And you made me think of one more thing, which is, um, You know, as I'm kind of speaking out of it as a septic process, like you're just kind of create these documents and you get them signed and you work this out, I do think there's some value to your future self that's going to go through the loss of a parent. Um, likely just the way that lifespans are of, of introducing this to your brain.
Like this is a very kind introduction to, um, acknowledge what, what is real and what is natural and what is around every human for all of millennia in the history of humans. And, and something about bringing my brain into that space as uncomfortable as it is. Um, Is part of the beginning of that transition process for myself as well. Right. And I, I've never been one that wanted to just sort of live, you know, with, with my head too far in the sand.
And so I'm probably talking about this topic because it is one of the scariest things for me, um, being very close to my parents and living with my own grandmother. And so I always have this sense, like, you know, this. This is going, this is a, this is in the future and I'm almost relating to my future self and reassuring her and preparing her, um, in my own way too.
And that's where I think a lot of this comes from because of the shock that you and I see when this happens and it was obviously understandably very clear that Nobody ever thought this could happen. And then we see this happen hundreds or thousands of times in rehab. Um, and so it's me watching that thinking of myself there and thinking, okay, well, she's going to be standing at some bedside somewhere. And I want to take care of her too.
And I want her to feel like this is, um, the last thing she's going to need is some paperwork headache. Yeah. So, um, anyway, so that made me think of that. Yeah. So ultimately this is all very selfish. I'll just put that out there. Um, but the idea is that there can't be just me that's in this boat. And so when I first thought of this and we talked about it some time ago, um, it was very helpful for you to be so open and to share because I knew I'm not, I know I'm not the only one.
Um, No, definitely. No, definitely not. So I said, I appreciate you doing this. I think it'll, it'll help many, many people. Well, Brittany, I hope to have you back on at some point and I'd love to continue the conversation and very jealous of the weather, but, um, I'd love to see you at some point. I know it's so beautiful up there and, and I hope you have a good rest of your day. Thanks. You too, Rebecca.