25 || Craig: When your parents are larger than life

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Real Conversations About Aging Parents. I am so happy to introduce a dear friend and colleague of mine, Craig. Hey, Craig. Welcome. Hey,

great to be here. Thanks for having me.

So when I started about thinking, uh, to do this podcast, I wanted to think of people that are in my life that were influencing some of my interest in the topic of aging parents. And, and you were one of the first names that popped in my head because I've known you long enough. Thank And I've kind of heard a lot of what your parents have gone through and, um, the amount of support that, um, they've needed over the years. And I've always seen you manage that with grace and, and kind of move through these things. So I was terribly interested in getting your story. But before we get to that, can you just introduce yourself? Tell people where you're from, what you like to do, that kind of thing.

Sure. Well, hi, I'm Craig Kaya. Um, I, uh, well, the best, first of all, the best, uh, job I have is being the, the husband for 33 years to my amazing wife, Lisa. And we've got two great kids, Connor, who's 20, soon to be 26, and Kendall 23. Uh, I'm an occupational therapist by training. I'm a Air Force veteran. I work at the V. A. And I'm a program manager on a brain injury unit that treats veterans in active duty. I'm I'm an extrovert. I'm a people person. I thrive on engagement. And so I love being a part of. things where people get to connect and, uh, you know, we get to be authentic and hear each other's story. Uh, on the team that I program manage over, uh, I'm off often the I'm one of the few males in the room and I'm usually the one that will become tearful and emotional when I see patients transform. We'll get these guys in and we've had significant injury. And so I love to See that come together. I love to see, I love as a program manager, I love to empower people and help them be their best self and enjoy what they do. And I'm, uh, soon to be 59 years old. So, uh, I'm at a point in my life where I really enjoy. Uh, what I, what I'm doing and where I'm at and getting able to being able to make a difference. Uh, I'm a, a very strong Christian. My faith's very important to me. And so I feel like God's kind of placed me uniquely in a position, a helping position. I have a servant's heart. And so, uh, getting that opportunity to help others and, uh, especially as a veteran helping, uh, the VA with active duty and veterans is the, the best work of my now 30 year OT career. So, um, Just, just really blessed in my life with my wife, kids, and the work that I get to do and being in good health.

Well, thank you. That's a, I didn't realize you were so close to retirement age. We'll have to talk about that later. Yeah, we don't, we don't need you to retire. Um, so for people that don't know what an occupational therapist does, I know you mentioned that in your daughters and OT school, uh, could you just give a quick thumbnail sketch about sort of the skillset of an occupational

therapist? Oh yeah, gosh. Well, it's funny when people become occupational therapists, if you talk to them about their story and how they became an OT, maybe it's different now, like in my daughter's case, she grew up with an OT dad, but, um, When I went to school way back in the mid, early nineties, nobody really knew what OT was. You usually were going to become a physical therapist. And if you were either, uh, you had too many skeletons in your academic closet, or you just, you know, you just didn't know anything about OT, you kind of discovered it. You would look across the room and see these people that were over in the corner, helping somebody functionally to do something, cook or to get dressed or shower, bathe, learn how to dress themselves, uh, navigate, uh, you know, community settings, budget, home management, all the functional life tasks. Um, you know, we have an injury, you know, I get O. T. Is always are frustrated, for example, that If, if you have a total hip or total knee replacement, as long as you can walk 150 feet out the door and, uh, do so with an assistive device, they think you're ready to go home while OTs think that's really where the rehab begins then. And so we, we like to, to connect and work on function and help people become functionally independent, you know, after whether it be a stroke or an orthopedic issue or a brain injury in the case of the program I work on. And so OTs. use their ability to assess function, break down activities into small component parts, and then work on those splinter skills, teach adaptive techniques, use assistive technology, things to help people become more functionally independent and We get to really connect with patients. I think O. T. People are, they're the people, person, people. They, uh, they're touchy feely. Uh, at least most of my, I mean, you go into a room of O. T. S. You know, immediately that you're amongst friends. If somebody is talking about, you know, their poop and going to the bathroom or just real personal. My wife is a social worker gets really embarrassed by it because we so freely talk about bodily functions and of things. So it's a great career. Uh, if you love helping people and working closely with them and one of the most important times of their life to get their independence back, you found a good job as an O. T. Well,

you've perfectly set the backdrop for my next question, which is for you to tell me about your parents. And I want to trace back to a time where you first started to think they might need some extra help. Like what did What did you know back then? And then what has that journey been for you with your parents?

Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, I'm forgive if I become emotional about this, it's been a really, uh, tough year, a good year, but a hard year. But, um, my parents, they've been married for 60 years. My dad and mom, uh, just turned 83 and 82. And, uh, they live up in Marble Falls, Texas. And, uh. incredible people. Uh, th been really active people are workout people, but m in the yard, you know, wo play golf, just were real enjoyed, you know, they e and independence for a lo of the things that always part of my dad's journey to his retirement physica Auto worker at General Motors. He, um, he uh, was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer and, uh, he was a person who worked on a forklift uh, truck. And so he was having discomfort and thought that it was just 'cause he sat all the time. And so he had a very difficult, uh, I guess treatment and recovery. He had to have surgery. Went through a year of chemo and uh, and radiation that just about killed my dad. He just, My big strong dad, uh, who people refer to him as the animal he was, my dad is just a mountainous man or was then and, um, to watch, uh, that happened to him, I think he lost about 60 pounds over the course of a year going through this treatment. And so he survived that, but, um, and praise God for it. But he, um, He went through the next 20 plus years, really struggling with the results of, uh, he had to have part of his lower, lower colon, uh, taken out, lots of radiation. And so it really affected his independence and his quality of life. Lots of, uh, you know, issues for him, uh, in terms of managing himself and, uh, And so he, I just have such respect for my dad because he was so stoic. Uh, you would go play golf with my dad and he had reached a point where he, uh, had to wear an adult. He wore essentially an adult diaper for 20 years. And, and I don't think I ever even knew my dad struggled with anything until about three years ago, two years ago. Oh, really? Just, just that person. He would never, you know, he has since come to share and my, my mother, who's an amazing caregiver, uh, would say that my dad would probably be having to go clean himself up six to eight times a day sometimes just because he'd have so many accidents and he just had no ability to control. But, um, so it was hard watching him go through that journey. It created a host of other medical issues. Uh, yeah. He, uh, had multiple times where he, um, he would, uh, develop an infection, he'd get a UTI and, uh, he'd, uh, had issues where, uh, obstructions and, you know, things that just created lots of health issues and problems that became very serious. Um, my mom, uh, just an incredible, uh, loving, you know, caregiver, just always there. Uh, you know, when I look at the way two people, you know, married through the course of their life and, you know, through ups and downs and twists and turns, uh, my mom was always there and has always been there to take care of my dad. But yeah, this past year was a really difficult year. My dad had atrial fib. He. had issues that got so bad with his lower colon area that he finally had to have a colostomy procedure done and a bag placement. And, and so going up to watch, you know, my dad go through that and make that adjustment. And, uh, you know what that did, uh, on his self. His self worth is value. You know, his body image, you know, that was something he never wanted to do. And, and, uh, he and my mom went through that journey together and, uh, you know, learning how to manage the bag and do all the things that he had to do. And as I say, he had overcome atrial fib and had to have surgery. really just a few months for that and then led up to the colostomy procedure. And so lots of medical issues in this year. And, um, so these people, my parents who had been really independent and really didn't need a lot from me other than just an occasional help out and go up to check on them, um, started to have some fairly serious medical issues. And, um, it was just hard to watch that. My big, strong dad, you know, not able to get himself up out from the floor or And, You know, being in the hospital and seeing, you know, the toll this had taken. And, and my mom is, um, she's a Wisconsin, you know, there I'm, we're from Wisconsin originally, and, uh, she's a. From a farming family, the toughest woman I've probably known in my entire life is my mother. And so she just presses on. I know she has her own health issues that she almost never speaks about, but I've watched her decline this year, too. And so it's just hard to see. When your folks are used to being very independent, able to take care of themselves, play golf three days a week, and do all the things, and then suddenly they can't, and they're almost imprisoned in their house, uh, because of health issues, and, and of course it doesn't help that it's 105 most of the summer this summer, and so it's the challenge of all that, but uh, So I've tried to be there and support them in my family. I have a brother, Steve, who's amazing. He's a very successful attorney up in Wisconsin, and he is very involved. But of course, he's in Wisconsin. So I'm kind of the one that's usually the first line of defense. And then if it gets bad, Steve comes down. But you know, my folks know always that their two sons will take care of them. I know that's a comfort to them. There's nothing that we wouldn't do for them. And so we try to manage them that way and figure out how we can best help them. And thankfully, they're still pretty independent.

And you answered one of my questions. So it's basically you and your brother, right? There's no other siblings,

no other siblings, just the two of us. Um, my mom and dad have a strong neighborhood network of people that help them with different things, probably way beyond what I even know. But family wise, it's just my brother and I. My mom comes from a huge family, though, as I say, a farming family, right? Um, and so there are hundreds of relatives and cousins up in Wisconsin who would drop it of a hat, come down and help take care and do things for my mom and dad, but, um, they haven't needed that level of care, but, uh, it, it is a challenge. You know, it's not like Marble Falls is 10 minutes away from me even. So, um, lots of times it's, you know, making trips up there going, I'm going to go up there this weekend and check on my daddy. He was doing great. He's back playing golf and doing some things, but then my mom told me he fell in the garage, so just a fact, and he fell on the car. Didn't break a hip or anything. Thank God. But, um, just. Just the fact that you worry about a fall. I mean, my, my dad would have never fallen or if he'd fallen, he would have got up and laughed about it where, you know, my mom, he didn't go to the doctor, but I think it was a pretty serious fall on the concrete. So, yeah. Oh,

sorry. Go

ahead. No, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, and then simultaneously, the other side of that is, you know, My wife, Marnie's mom is 99 and still living and has significant health issues and she's in Austin. So in our family we have this, we're both trying to take care of, you know, aging parents who are at different ages of the life spectrum. And have very different issues. And so it's, it's a real challenge because it, you know, in Martin's case, she has two brothers, one that lives in Austin, but one that's a pilot and lives out in Raleigh, North Carolina. And so they're trying to coordinate her care while I take care of my folks.

Well, thank you for laying that out. And a lot of what I'd like to do in the podcast is take the story that you just gave us this great framework and then zoom into different areas for the. The audience to ask some questions and I'll, I'll ask on their behalf. One of the things I always wonder about when there's two siblings involved and one has much closer proximity than the other, there usually goes a couple of different ways, right? Either it's very synergistic. Like it sounds like what you described with your brother, you know, I'm, I'm the first line, he's the second line, but we're always in contact and we always know we'll help, but then there can also set up sort of this, like. undercurrent of resentment. Like I am the one that's the closest and proximity trumps almost everything. Male, female, uh, medical background. Like you could have the best female daughter OT up in Massachusetts and that won't matter. It's the child that's closest to the action, um, that can be called in the event of a fall, just like you're talking about. And so how do you and your brother navigate? Um, what I, what someone would call, like, can it, can it easily be an uneven sharing of, uh, a task or a taking care of parents?

No, that's a great question. Um, well, what comes to mind when I think about it is just the, the relationship and the foundation that was already there between my brother and I, I mean, uh, we're very close. Uh, there's nothing I wouldn't do for him and he, me. And so. I think having that foundation and I think my mom and dad always. You know, laid the foundation that that family came first and that we take care of each other. And so family is super important to me. I mean, I won't say it can't be a burden. Obviously, if you're if you're missing work and going up and things are constantly happening at some point, it just gets really hard to do. But thankfully, we've not endured that kind of need. And if we did, we'd work through it, you know, we'd get paid help or do what we have to do. But Steve and I work through that. We, um, I know that he would do anything that he could. And if I said, Hey, I need you down here. He he'd do that. He has a, he's a very successful, very busy, uh, personal injury attorney up in Wisconsin. And so he's got a busy trial schedule. I just try to know that and know it's not personal. It's not that he's not helping because he's. Doesn't want to. It's just he's really busy and if I really needed him, I know he'd be here. Um, and it's not a burden to take care of my mom and dad. They, they've done so much for our family and my mom and dad are really transplanted Texans. I mean, they moved their entire life to come to be close to our kids who were their only grandkids. And so they left family left connection in Wisconsin to come down. you know, when the kids w you know, it just seems l that now if things are re were always here when the and help take them to soc practice, come and watch and I could have a date n They were literally, and I'm so thankful they were part of the kid's journey growing up. But now in this season where the kids are older, they're gone on, they're doing their thing. It's, it's, I know it's gotta be hard for my mom and dad because they're now up in Marble Falls and the kids don't come and they see us less and, or they see the kids but just, you know, at certain times. And so we, we make it work and we take care of each other because that's what strong families do.

So I'm going to ask you about that because there's a lot of, you have to learn that somewhere, right? So there's cultural or religious or even just basic, the down to the family values or, um, traditions that are passed along. And so how did you come to know how adult children interact with their parents? Like, did you see your parents help with your grandparents? Did you see like what, what got that in your brain? That's not necessarily a default. belief, right? For everybody born in the earth. And so where did, where do you trace that back to?

Uh, I clearly saw that played out, um, on my mom's family in particular. My, my dad has only a sister, a younger sister and my dad lost his dad when he was 18. His dad passed of a heart attack at 47. I believe And so, um, I saw it more played out on my mom's side who came from this large family of seven. And, um, there, my mom's mom had Alzheimer's disease. And so I watched, uh, as all of the kids in my mom's family took turns taking care of. Her, you know, having her, you know, this is way before, you know, Alzheimer, you know, you know, centers, you know, you know, sending someone to a nursing home that has a dementia unit or those things didn't exist in the 70s at this point when, and so I watched them take care of her and. do so lovingly and, uh, uh, never felt like it was a burden and I see that now. I mean, my mom's family is just this incredible support network of people when there's a marriage, a funeral, uh, something to celebrate hundreds of people. I mean, it's just incredible how that that example was handed down and how it still plays out. And so it does for me. I mean, Um, I, and I hope and pray I've laid that foundation for our, our two kids, but I clearly saw it and I saw how important it was and, um, and it just never, it just seemed like it was the automatic thing and it really has never been an option for me to not be there for my mom and my dad. It just is so ingrained in me and, and I, I guess I just lay it out to what I saw growing up.

What are, what are your expect expectations of your own Children? Have you thought about that? Um,

probably not, probably not as detailed as I should. Um, I'd like to think that they would do the same. Um, I do think it seems different now. Um, I don't know if it's just the way our society is and culture and things seem different. But I have two kids that are very caring, very loving. Um. I know that they would be there for us. Uh, if asked, um, we've tried to take steps that maybe my mom and dad weren't able to financially or just didn't know about to not put them in positions where maybe they have to be is involved. Um, but I do believe that they would be there for us. And, um, They've seen that same example. Uh, they've, they, it's funny. You always, uh, hope that your kids will see the things you've done for them. I think I might've shared this with you that, uh, we watched videos one night of when the kids were little and I was taping them and, uh, I remember our son stopped the tape and he looked at Marnie and I, and he's like. God, you guys are amazing. How did you put up with, I mean, the constant barrage of questions and just not being exhausted, always, you know, doing. And so they, they've seen that, and I think they have that example and I believe it'll, you know, continue.

I wanted to touch base on, you mentioned sort of the administrative setup of How you navigate that. Um, can you comment on to the extent that you know, uh, for people in their eighties, the extent to which they have like a living will, uh, medical power of attorney, like how did, did they go about set? Is it set up? And then if it is, what was that conversation? Like,

yeah, my mom is really good. My mom, Was the original superwoman. She, um, she progressed from a bank teller to a bank vice president and was stay at home. Mom managed two kids, you know, at a time when she got virtually a little help from her family. And so my mom's always been a hard charger and so, She's planned for all those kind of things right down to she and my dad have, uh, it's, it always seems kind of dark to me, but they have tombstones with their names on their gravestones waiting to put the dates in when they pass. Where are these tombstones

located?

Well, I grew up, uh, I was born in Prairie to Sheen, Wisconsin. And so they're going to be buried, I think, in a small, in the farming community of Wazika, where my mom grew up. And so all of my mom's family or a good portion of them have burial plots in this small cemetery. And most of them have done the same things that my mom and dad have done. Don't want to be a burden on their kids. So they got burial plots, got the gravestones and they're literally. is a marker there with Todd and Diane's name on it. And it's just way, which I've seen pictures of it and it kind of freaks me out. But so my mom's very prepared. She has everything written out right down to where the keys for the safety deposit boxes are. So if something happened to my mom and dad, She always is like this is where you would go. These are the people you would talk to all of it. Um, I know that they have living wills. I know that they have done a lot of that. And this past year where my dad's gone through difficult health. I think one of the things that we I always worry about, you know, you always wonder, well, who's going to pass first? And my mom's always been the superwoman, super strong. And I've always thought, well, gosh, my dad would probably pass first. But, you know, I think part of it is she, you never know. I mean, that's, that's in God's hands, right? So I think they want to have everything ready for the other. And then there's always been lots of discussions about, well, if one of them passed for the other, which, which will likely happen, will they stay at that house? And so my mom and dad have, they've paid off everything that they can. I mean, the house, any. thing that would remain a burden to the other they've tried to take care of. And I know it's a big deal for them that it's easy on Steve and I to, you know, pick up the pieces. Um, Steve being an attorney is the, uh, uh, I forget the word. He, he's, he's responsible. He's the power of attorney.

He has literally

the power of the attorney. Yeah. So he, he would be the one that orchestrate that. But even within our family, I don't, you know, Steve and I, I guess I'm just really fortunate because, you know, I never worry about that there would be infighting between the two of us about state, a state settlement or planning or any of that. My mom and dad have just really helped prepare that. And Steve and I being who we are that that will never be an issue for us. So.

Well, I just had this vision when you were talking of if you could like pre buy your own tombstone and like put it in your garage just for storage and just kind of look at it every day. And I don't know if that would make it a little bit freer.

Yeah, it's it's really when when they did that. I mean, I've thought many times about that because I thought, well, if something happened to my dad, let's say. Well, first, the first thing they both have said is they're going to be cremated because they don't want us to have to transport their body all the way to Wisconsin in a car, which I said, well, thank you. Um, so then I guess I'd be hopping on a plane with an urn and my carry on, uh, and not telling anybody what it was or something, but I don't know. Definitely the

carry on, not the check luggage. I'm sure there are rules about this.

Yeah. I don't, I try not to think that far ahead, but yeah. They've really got things ready.

So I'm going to ask you a question because you said something very similar. I interviewed my brother. Uh, I don't remember what, what episode it was, but he said almost the exact same thing you said, which was when I asked him about telling me about his, his journey with our dad. Um, so my brother talked about seeing his dad or our dad. Um, have more functional mobility difficulties and, uh, have how hard that was on him to see his dad. And I challenged him and I said, how come when dad has a heart issue, you drop him off at the hospital, you call me and then you, you leave. And, um, I mean, he, I'm sure he's going to say he meant to go like, take care of the dogs or the cows or something, but. But what he really said was, I don't like to see my dad in a hospital gown, like that's for what he didn't say for women. Okay. He said, that's for you. You're good at that. Right. And I was like, I don't know that I'm any better than anybody else that's seeing my dad in a hospital gown, but it doesn't have the same emotional effect. I mean, as, as much as it does anybody, I don't want anybody to be sick or in the hospital. Right. But like it was something I, what I noticed was almost this identification with the strength or whatever the. You know, John Wayne nature is for some people in the way that they interact with their own father and this aversion or avoidance of or having to confront, um, the aging process and what that looks like and that that may be a fairly unique struggle for males in this role that are involved and do see it up front. And how they work through that. Can you can you identify with that? Or does that?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a great observation. Um, yeah, my dad, um, to me, growing up, uh, was always my big, strong dad. My dad was, uh, just a mountain man. He, uh, his father was a large man. He, he owned a lumber yard. And so my, my dad used to always joke when I would be going to the gym to lift weights or something, he would He would say, you know, I never lifted weights. I used to unload cement bags from boxcars at the lumberyard and, and, and so he was just this huge bigger than life figure. I, I almost never, it's funny when I was very young, probably about four or five. And I've shared this with my dad. I remember one time peeking in the kitchen and seeing him cry. He was, He had lost his job at the plant. I'm sure he was really wondering how he and my mom were going to make it. And so seeing him like that vulnerable was very profound for me. I was just so taken aback that my dad could have emotion like that. I was very young and I almost never saw him emotional like that. Um, I always tease the kids when they were, as they were growing up that they got sweet grandpa, cause my dad was. He would, if my dad came looking for you, like there was an evolution of discipline in our house that my mom would be the front line, but if it moved to level two and dad got involved, oh my Lord, I can still remember my dad coming to find me like when I didn't come home for dinner and the look on his face, I was terrified. So I'm not saying it was abuse. I'm just saying he was such a. big, strong figure. So that was the dad image I had. Uh, that was the image at the plant. He was called the animal. He would literally work in the tire bay and pick up four truck tires at one time and carry them to the line to be put on a car. So he was just, and so my dad kind of liked that, that he was big and strong. And that was, I think he relished that quality of himself. He saw that as strength. But as he got older and I saw him become, uh, you know, more feeble, uh, less, you know, not as strong, um, especially later, you know, when he would be in the hospital, it was very hard for me to see that. And I'd be, I really became. Very aware of my dad, my dad's decline, you know, he, even now when we play golf together, he always worries that he can't hit the ball as far. And even though he does great, you know, he, my dad's actually had two hole in ones in the same year golfing. he does remarkably well, but he always worries that he's physically declining and not able to keep up. And so that I think as a man seeing that and seeing my big strong dad decline, uh, was harder than say maybe if I, he might've been declining cognitively, you know, much sooner than I realized. Um, I think it's the physical is what I really connected with because it probably is a man that's I want to be a protector. I want to, you know, be able to take care of my family. And so just seeing what that was like being played out was hard. Uh, so yeah, I can relate to what your brother's saying. I would have to be the one to go to the hospital to see him in the gown to see him with the NG tube and, uh, see him walking with a walker. Um, you know, just, you know, my dad always has taken very good care of himself. So to see him You know, needing a shave and just kind of disheveled and not my My dad was hard and then, uh, and then watching my mom care for him in those moments was just like this really tender, you know, it just, it really showed me what a marriage relationship is, you know, when everything else is pulled aside, the two of you taking care of each other all the way to the end.

It makes me think about, um, and I'm glad we're talking about this cause I. Want to be really intentional with the podcast, not to, I mean, to have a large diversity of viewpoints and experiences. And, um, and so I'm glad that you're talking about that. And I, it makes me wonder part of the, the journey or the challenge or, or of all of us aging, but when we are, um, having our parents go through that phase of life, is that intention to keep reconnecting to. The person that they are and that we are part of honoring that because, uh, I always think of people as, you know, like a fabric, like it's everything that they've been to us in their whole life present in front of you at one time. And, and that can be really confusing because they've been the big disciplinarian, they've been the friend, they've been the golf buddy, they've been all these things. And at that moment, it's just them in front of you and whatever iteration of their, their physical body. That they have that day, you know, um, and so I, I always think, um, maybe sometimes we can even overthink this part of it. There's our experience of, of physical, of seeing someone else have a physical decline. There's their own experience, which is also complicated. Uh, having like, it would be for anybody, uh, a physical decline, but in, in the middle of all of this, right. How do we connect and how do we move past that? And you've certainly have had to do that. Um, can you talk about some, some lessons learned or, um, how you manage that part of your, your mind, if it's getting dramatic about it, like. How do you just be present?

Well, it's so funny. The journey really shapes, as you say, that, you know, I love the example you gave of the fabric, um, So the journey that you have from birth to, to now, you know, with these family members, with these, these parents, uh, I've seen them through their, their high points, their low points, strength, weakness, uh, marital struggle, you know, marital bliss, all of it. And so all of that has shaped. the journey shaped my relationship with them, and it's had a profound effect, obviously, on the relationships I have with my wife, my kids, the way I do things the way I think. And so, um, just being mindful of that. I mean, the fabric example is a good one for me, because for my for my parents, I spoke about my dad's strength. My mom is an incredibly strong, resilient person. And so even though I see um, what's in front of me right now is enough. It's Uh, relevant, interesting people. They, they've done all the heavy lifting and they're at this late stage of life trying to find their own way and their own meaning. And, uh, so seeing that and, and now I just, I, I try to really be there for them in any way I can to help, you know, do the heavy lifting on things that they can't do. You know, everything from taking care of the house to, you know, my mom, uh, just lost her sister, her older sister, who she was very close with. She and my dad have always been very fearful of flying, but I knew that she wanted to go see her sister, uh, up in Wisconsin. So I flew with my mom up to Wisconsin to go see her sister, Mary, for the last time, and I'm so glad we did because she got to see Mary who, who had dementia. She was in a nursing home, but on the day we got to see her. She was having a really good day and I have great pictures and memories of my mom being there with her sister and all of her siblings and getting to see her and, and so I was able to have that journey with my mom and enjoy that experience with her. And, and then sadly, her sister passed about two months after that. So, so glad that we did that. Um, but just, you know, walking with my mom through that really important. Time, you know, uh, was huge. I wanted to do that same thing with my dad to take him up. He, he went to Canada with our family, all the guys to get away on a fishing trip a couple of years ago. And that's when he had his first big atrial fib bout. And so he literally had to get air flighted back to a place. And then I literally drove up to Wisconsin to bring he and my mom home. Oh my gosh. So he wants to go back up and go fishing. And that's something that I want to do for my dad. We just couldn't make it work because he had so much going on with this colostomy procedure. But next year, if he's not able to drive, I will definitely take him up and we'll go fishing together and have that experience. I'm praying that he can drive and do that. But What I see with my mom is they've reached a point where they no longer feel confident to do things and they want to go do things, but they lack the confidence to do them or the time or the ability. I mean, they'll get spun up on medical appointments or their dog or what. And I'm like, mom, if you want to go, just go. We'll take care of all that. They, you know, they, they, they can't do those things. And so that's where, you know, I can step in and be the help and support that they need. And, and I'm happy to do that. It doesn't feel like a burden. Let me

ask you this, and this, this may be an unfair question, but everybody has limits, right, to what they can do as far as, um, you know, as much as they would need. Do you have in the back of your mind hard limits on, like, would you move up there? Would they move down here? Like, You know what I'm saying? Like, has your brain gone that far? Cause right now, and I know it sounds like it's working for their needs right now, but does your, especially as an OT, does your brain wander into like, what does this look like if dad keeps falling? What

comes up with that? Well, I, where I think about that a lot is let's say my dad sadly passed away. and my mom was there by herself. Um, part of the reason my mom and dad live in Marble Falls is because they were always fearful of being in the big city here in San Antonio. The traffic, it was just too much for them because we grew up in a small community in Wisconsin. And so, you know, Marble Falls is kind of a safe space for my mom. But having gone up, uh, and spend time with my mom when my dad was in the hospital, it was very clear to me she doesn't see well. I worried about her driving. Um, I, I can see that there's been some decline there and I think if she was here, she would acknowledge it even probably on some level. And so I worry about that, about her ability to, to be on her, on her own, and same for my dad in different ways. Um, And so, you know, we've talked about that. My mom and dad again, back to their own planning and preparation have been very clear about not wanting to move in or be a burden moving in with us. We don't really have a space that they could do that, but that would be on the table for me, but probably more so. I think my mom acknowledges that there may be a time that she or my dad would have to go to assisted living or go to a place where she could be cared for. I think they've tried to do things financially to make that feasible and possible. And I think for my brother and I, that would probably be, you know, my brother, uh, has said that many times that, you know, that's something we'll help take care of if we need to. And we're blessed that we can do that. I know not everybody has that that option. But, um I'm sensitive to my relationship with Marnie and we've been married for 33 years. Um, we love our parents, uh, and she loves my mom and dad just like I love her mom. But, um, I also know that my commitment to Marnie is, is top, you know, I mean. I wouldn't just say, Hey, we're going to move to Marble Falls to take care of my mom. Yeah. It's like we make decisions as a, as a couple, and that would be off limits or not be on the table for, for, for us. Uh, we would have to have discussions about what we would be comfortable with. We've had such discussions, even about her mom, about what would we allow her to move in or would we move closer or do things? And so. I think those discussions keep changing, you know, as you get closer to it and things get more serious. But for now, I think, you know, we've had the discussions that we would try to get my mom or my dad, whoever would remain to a place that they felt comfortable with. They probably have to move out of the house. Even have talked about moving back to Wisconsin to be closer to their extended family. Uh, that might be an option as well. Okay. Wow. But, but I think having all those discussions, even though like when, like when my mom brings it out or you know, it's kind of like the mom, do we have to talk about where things are when you pass kind of thing again, but having those discussions. Makes it more real and easier to talk about when my dad goes into the hospital and has a serious event and we're more prepared So I think it's worth doing

I sometimes I I chuckle to myself because of all of the Taboos on this topic and it's like if there's one thing in life that's guaranteed Right. It's that it ends And that's the one thing we had the hardest time could have planning around and it does require some planning. And I always think, you know, if you don't plan, then people make assumptions, um, absolutely. And there's a lot of legal assumptions. So. Anyway, so I don't, I'm sensitive to, I don't want to make the podcast too morbid, but I want to, I want to release the taboo on the topic because that's another manifestation of how families work together, you know, what is this going to look like? And that's a really hard time, right? And you were just talking about our mutual colleague that lost her father and she's been very open about. Gosh, I mean, they were, he was so prepared and that just helped tremendously. Um, and so I, I, I want to reframe this not as a scary thing to talk about, but the, probably one of the most important things you can do and, um, well, anyway, I think that was, uh, I am so happy that you, you shared all that. I, um, I'm so appreciative of you coming on to talk to me about this. I know this isn't an easy topic for you, but. I think with your life experience as an occupational therapist, which your parents lucked out with that. If you have any, if you have a kid of any discipline, I think the best one for an aging parent is to have an OT as a child. Um, but anyway, so, uh, I just appreciate you sharing that. Uh, any parting last thoughts or sentiments you'd like to share?

Uh, just, you know, um, I guess, uh, thank you for the opportunity to, to share my story. Uh, I. You know, I'm honored to parents who have really k out there for their own f that's in my voice speaks them and you know what, w they've been in my own li And, uh, it's an honor and a privilege to take care of them. And, uh, um, I think, um, being able to have hard conversations and, you know, throughout the journey, uh, makes the late stage journey a lot easier. And, uh, um, I think they would acknowledge they've had a wonderful life. And, uh, I want that to be the way they remember their life. And so, um, just being able to be there for them and. And then hopefully laying the foundation for my own family and my own kids to see how we've taken care of them. Hopefully it will be impactful and how they raise their family and their kids. So, um, thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about that. And, um, thanks for what you're doing. I think it's an incredible, uh, I would see it as a ministry almost as what you're doing. So thanks for doing it.

That's really beautiful. I'm going to leave you with one tip, which somebody else gave me and it was a guest on this podcast. You immediately send the link to your children once I publish it. And then you make them listen to it, and then you quiz them at the next time that you'd go to the gallery.

I'll do it, because if it's technology, they probably immediately believe everything said. I could try

to find, like, an emoji to go with it. I'll try to dress it up for your kids ages. But yeah, no, so I say that because that's been one of the rewarding things of the podcast, is it's shareable. And so people come tell their story. Their story gets out there and they've had family members reach out and say, I didn't realize what you went through or didn't realize, you know, what that, what that really looked like. And so, um, I appreciate you sharing and you're sharing, uh, with the next generation, uh, at least by the published podcast link. So anyway, Craig, thank you so much. I appreciate you being here. I hope we could talk again soon.

Sounds good, Rebecca. Looking forward to it till the next time. All right.

All right.

Thank you. Thanks. See you. Bye bye.