RAR #242: An Art Gallery for the Lap, with Scott Gustafson

Sarah Mackenzie (00:05): Well, hello, hello. Sarah Mackenzie here. And you've got episode 242 of the Read-Aloud Revival podcast, the show that helps your kids fall in love with books and helps you fall in love with homeschooling. (00:18): Now, this is our first official podcast of the summer, and I've got quite the treat for you, especially if you're joining us for A Fairy Tale Summer at RAR Premium, but even if you're not. See, around here, we believe that stories connect us and reading aloud transforms family life. Today, we're diving into the enchanting world of illustrated picture books with none other than the incredibly talented illustrator, Scott Gustafson. Scott is the master illustrator behind the breathtaking illustrations in the beloved picture book Classic Fairy Tales, which is one of our two picks for this summer's Fairy Tale Summer. And it also happens to be my very favorite collection of fairy tales for kids. This is my favorite version to share with kids of all ages. I absolutely think it's a perfect example of an art gallery for a child's lap. And you can find out more, of course, about Fairy Tale Summer at readaloudrevival.com/fairytale. (01:26): Now, Scott's work has captivated readers and art lovers of all ages, and in these illustrations, he brings timeless stories to life in a way that is truly magical. I cannot think of a better artist to talk to about how picture books are truly an art gallery for the lap. Now, Scott and I are going to record this conversation today for you on Zoom. So, if you are listening to this podcast in your podcast player, like you normally listen to Read-Aloud Revival, you probably want to go scoot over to where you can watch the video, because Scott is going to be sharing so many of his gorgeous illustrations on the screen as we chat. You'll be able to find that video in the show notes at readaloudrevival.com/242, or at Read-Aloud Revival's YouTube channel. Scott Gustafson, welcome to the Read-Aloud Revival. Scott Gustafson (02:22): Well, thank you. Thank you, Sarah, and thank you for inviting me. It's an honor to be here and I'm excited to participate in your program here. And it's wonderful that you're encouraging people to read out loud to their kids, because I think that's so basic and such a wonderful experience for families to share. Sarah Mackenzie (02:41): Well, you know, I've told you before, I love this collection of fairy tales so much. Now, we're doing fairy tales all summer long at Read-Aloud Revival, and I read tons of them, of course, in choosing which ones we were going to feature for A Fairy Tale Summer, and there's just no other collection that I thought could outshine yours. So, I knew from the beginning I was probably like, "This is the one I'm going to pick." And then I thought, "Well, I should probably read a bunch of others." And yours is still my favorite. So, I'm so excited to chat with you about it today. Scott Gustafson (03:07): Thank you so much. I love hearing that. I mean, the collection we're talking about are some of the most well-known fairy tales, but to hear you choose mine out, I know there are literally hundreds to choose from, so that's a real honor that you chose mine. (03:24): So, here, of course, is the cover. By the time this book came to happen or start to happen, I had illustrated about four other books. And I was approached by a company called The Bradford Exchange, who those of you who are old enough to remember, did collector's plates. They reached out and said, "Would you be interested in working on some projects with us?" We started with a bunch of concepts, but they decided that fairy tales would be a good place to start. (04:00): So this, you'll see over here on the left, is my sketch that they chose out of a number of other ones that I had done, and that led to this picture. So this, fortunately, was a popular image. It kicked off a series of eight fairy tales altogether. This just was the first one. As things went on, I also started working for another company called The Greenwich Workshop. They did limited edition prints. They also got into doing porcelains. So, as I designed those figures for the porcelain project, I also kept in mind that, "Oh, maybe I can use some of this artwork when it comes to the fairy tale book." So, these were basically character studies that I set aside once I'd done them, and thought, "Well, when the time comes and we actually start that book, I'll be a few illustrations ahead." (05:01): Back at The Bradford Exchange, they said, "Well, how about we do a fairy tale series of music boxes?" This was a fun thing. It was a challenge for me, because I'd never done anything like this before, but actually, they sent me a template that was kind of a big semicircle. In that they said, "Okay, you've got four sides to this box. This will be a decal that will wrap around the porcelain box and then be fired on. So, design in terms of four sides." So, you see over there starting at the left is the baby bear leading the procession as the parents leave for their walk. So, the porridge is cooling. And there, you see their home. And then over on the right, you see that history is about to be made as Goldilocks sits and contemplates what she's going to do next. As you turn this box, you can kind of get a little glimpse of the story. Sarah Mackenzie (05:59): These aren't still available anywhere, are they? Scott Gustafson (06:02): No, those, unfortunately, aren't. Boy, that was probably 20 years ago that they did those. Sarah Mackenzie (06:07): Okay. Scott Gustafson (06:08): But then, not only did I have artwork for the box itself, but I also had this panoramic vignette. I should explain that term. It means it's a picture without a definite outline. It's not contained within a certain shape. It's kind of free-floating. Sarah Mackenzie (06:28): Anyone who's watching this and is seeing these illustrations, they're just so lush. There's so many details. I'll tell you all the things I love about your paintings as we go, but- Scott Gustafson (06:39): Oh, thank you. Sarah Mackenzie (06:40): ... let's at the beginning, tell everybody, what do you use? Scott Gustafson (06:43): I haven't made the transition into digital. I work traditionally. For the most part, you're going to be seeing oil paintings, but on this one and the other vignettes that I did, the other music box pieces that I did, I did a lot of this in a watercolor medium that's called gouache. It's actually an opaque watercolor. And I used that because it allows you to do really fine details. And so, if I could zoom in on some of these things, you'd see that there's quite a bit of detail within the cottage, on the faces of the characters. All that stuff, I wanted to retain. And it's easier to do in the medium known as gouache than it is in oil. So, that's how I approach these. But for the most part, we're going to be seeing oil paintings. Sarah Mackenzie (07:34): Okay. Scott Gustafson (07:35): But once I had done a number of the types of things that we've been talking about, the porcelain character designs and the late artwork, by this time, I had eight finished paintings of nursery rhyme stories. And I approached the people, I was at The Greenwich Workshop, and I said, "I've assembled quite a bit of artwork here." Fortunately, they had a book division. They didn't do kids' books necessarily, but that didn't seem to bother them. And I started thinking then in terms of, "Okay. Now, do pictures have to be specifically for the book? How do I finish telling the rest of these stories? I've done the major events like Goldilocks being discovered in the bed of the three bears, but there's a lot more to this story. So, what else can we do?" (08:30): Anyway, the book needed a cover. So, here are four different designs. Imagine this as being the dust jacket that wraps all the way around, so you have to think in terms of that. And this is the final picture that The Greenwich Workshop did as well. Sarah Mackenzie (08:49): How big was the picture, the original painting, I guess? Scott Gustafson (08:53): This one is around four feet long. Sarah Mackenzie (08:56): Oh my goodness. That's way bigger than I expected you to say. Scott Gustafson (09:00): It's way bigger than I usually work. Sarah Mackenzie (09:02): Okay. Scott Gustafson (09:03): But I actually thought of this in terms of a mural for a child, for a reading room in a library or something like that. Sarah Mackenzie (09:11): Oh my goodness. Scott Gustafson (09:12): Not that it's truly mural size, but I wanted it to be on that kind of a scale almost. Plus, I had a lot of little characters and a lot of things going on, and the bigger I worked, the easier it is to work those details into it. (09:28): Also, if I were to have been given this as a book project just by itself, I would've been limited in the amount of time that I could have spent. They would've said, "Okay, you've got a year and a half, two years at the most to do all the illustrations for this book." But because I was doing this over a period of time, so there was time in the schedule to lavish on big pictures like this. Sarah Mackenzie (09:54): Yeah. I mean, they're so detailed, but you get so much in without anything being cluttered. It's just very inviting, like it immerses you as soon as you- Scott Gustafson (10:03): Oh, thank you. I love to hear that because I like details, but I also don't want to overwhelm the viewer. I try to pick things that I think are the most important, and hopefully, your eye will go to that and then you can enjoy the rest of the picture. But first, we got to make clear what the point of the picture is, and the extra details, that's frosting on the cake, but we've got meat and potatoes to get through first. Sarah Mackenzie (10:30): Well, I love that because when I'm sitting with my child reading these Classic Fairy Tales, something I say all the time around here is that the best illustrations in picture books make us and our kids want to look at them longer than necessary. You just kind of want to sit there. Which reminds me of being in an art gallery and looking at a painting and you just want to stand there and just take it in and spend some time with it. (10:52): And that's what I always think the best illustrated picture books do, and your books let you do that because your eye goes directly to probably wherever you wanted it to go. Not that I know what you've done there, but my eye probably goes right exactly to where you wanted it to go. And then, it's like there's so much more to look at, that I want to sit there longer and just keep looking. How long did it take you to make the paintings for this book? Scott Gustafson (11:17): I think the first sketch that we saw for Goldilocks was in 1980, and I think the book came out in the late 1990s, I think, but I wasn't working exclusively on this until probably the last two years, year and a half is when I really actually devoted all my time to just making the book. (11:43): And here's another example of the music box, and then here's the artwork that wraps around it. This was a nice opportunity, like you were saying, spending time to look at the pictures. That's one of my goals too, is that these pictures will sustain repeated viewings, so that if you come back to them, you may have read the book once or twice and you're reading it again and you might notice things you didn't notice before. Sarah Mackenzie (12:11): Which is such a gift to the reader, especially to the parents who are reading aloud, because we all know that kids want the same books read over again and again and again. Scott Gustafson (12:20): Right. Sarah Mackenzie (12:21): And so, when it's a gift like that, when you're like, "Oh, yes, I'd love to read that to you again." Because you get to come back to these illustrations and see something different. That feels like a real gift to the adult, not just to the child too. Scott Gustafson (12:33): Well, and it was part of the fun of my doing it as well. And I also know that as you're reading, especially if it's a block of text, the kid's ahead of you, they've looked at the picture and you're still talking and reading. So, the more you have for them to look at, the better off the both of you are. Sarah Mackenzie (12:54): That's right. Scott Gustafson (12:57): I try to occupy everybody at the same time. Sarah Mackenzie (13:02): Yes. Scott Gustafson (13:02): But this was a fun example of some storytelling that happened in one picture. So, that over in the doorway of the cottage, you can see the wolf is getting on grandma's clothes just as Red Riding Hood appears at the gate, and then there are actually some chickens and things that are milling around, that I was able to put a rooster. I don't have it in this set of pictures, but in the story itself, in the book, the final illustration where the grandma and Red Riding Hood are reunited again, on a half open door, there's a rooster standing there, and he's crowing and he's happy because everybody's happy. But that's the same rooster that's on the fence in the background here. (13:52): And here's the moment that comes after what we've just seen. She comes in and realizes what big eyes grandma has. Sarah Mackenzie (14:03): Tell me what you're doing. Why am I immediately going right to the center where Goldilocks's face is? I mean, is it just composition that makes me do that or is it light, too? Scott Gustafson (14:14): I think it's a combination of things. She's red and I've purposely made her the brightest, most intense color, but then if you notice the sweep of the drape ends at her face. A lot of the lines of the wrinkles are kind of coming in from the left and going up into the body of the wolf, but the wolf is looking at her. And then, the slant of the light coming in through the open curtains is also pointing at her and the wolf. So, it all works together. (14:47): There's always the challenge or the temptation, I should say, that when you're putting a lot of details in, well, if I'm going to put that clock in there, I want to make sure people can see all the details. Well, you have to sacrifice some of that. So, if you look close at the clock, yes, the hands and the numerals are all there, but they're not as dark as they might really have been. And if this were a photograph, they might actually be black, and they might pull your eye away. But I have to sacrifice those things to make sure that your eye concentrates more on what I think is important. (15:26): And also, I don't like the overwhelming feeling. There's a lot going on here. There are a lot of patterns and things, and that could fight and make a picture overly busy, and I don't really like overly busy pictures. I like to discover what's in a picture, but I don't want it all jumping out at me at one time. Sarah Mackenzie (15:46): I feel like this is a masterclass in why these picture books are such gifts to read aloud with our kids. It always has struck me as funny that we tend to read aloud picture books with our kids till they can read to themselves, and then we move them on up to chapter books and novels. And a lot of times, a lot of us parents are really anxious about moving our kids up to the next level. So, we take away picture books, give them novels, and then take them to art museums. And here we have museum-quality fine art that you can sit down in your child's lap and they can get close to. (16:19): Even the fact that you said Goldilocks is in red. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, of course she is. She's the brightest one." But I didn't notice that until you pointed it out, but my eye did. I had the response that you were looking for, but intellectually, I didn't know what you were doing. I just love it. It's just amazing to me. Scott Gustafson (16:33): Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I think about these pictures as, first and foremost, they're for kids and the story is the most important thing and what I can help bring to the story, but after that, then I can dress it up and add the frosting and all that stuff. (16:52): But I also like to think of them in terms of pictures for families. So that, yeah, you can enjoy them as a kid and hopefully, as an adult, you'll have fond memories of them, and if you come back to revisit them as an adult, you'll go, "Oh, what do you know? There was actually more in these pictures than I could appreciate when I was a little kid." Sarah Mackenzie (17:15): I love, by the way, and we'll put a link to this in the show notes, you have some great step-by-step progressions of a painting on your website, so we'll link to that page so people can come. If you've got, especially, young artists, listeners who are really interested in what art looks like as it makes its way from initial sketch ideas to a final painting, you do not want to miss those links. So, I'll put them in the show notes. I think in one of those you were talking about, probably all of them, you were talking about using models, right? So, you use models as references. So, tell me about that. Scott Gustafson (17:45): I should have mentioned that earlier, but yeah, for every human character that you see in my pictures, there's almost always a corresponding model. And they don't always look exactly like the people that posed for me, but I really need that information that I can get from a real person modeling. So, the costumes aren't always completely accurate to what I need, but I can fake things between doing reference, looking things up, and then I do have a collection of costumes that I use. But if there are things I don't have, then I can kind of fudge it a little bit. (18:26): But it really helps. When you're talking about the light being an important element, it's also important for me to reconstruct that light for my photographs, so I can use that, "Okay. That's how the light would actually hit that little girl as it comes in through the curtains," or whatever. This particular picture that we're looking at here, I didn't really have a model for, but almost everything- Sarah Mackenzie (18:52): You didn't have a cat that you dressed up in Renaissance clothing? Scott Gustafson (18:55): Well, it's based on a cat that I had, but he, unfortunately, was never this willing to pose. Sarah Mackenzie (19:04): Most cats would not be, I think. Scott Gustafson (19:06): Yeah. No, he was definitely ... I was able to use him for some things and we tricked him into posing, but he never would've done it if I'd have asked him to. (19:16): This is an example. It's funny you should mention showing a process piece, because that's going to happen next here. And it's unrelated to this particular picture, but it's a good point at which, I think, to introduce showing a little bit of how a picture does go from a drawing stage to a finished painting. So, here you see this is a character study that was for the figurine, but I was able to incorporate that basic pose into this full-page illustration. Now, this was just for the book. It's at the opening of this story. So, it goes across two pages and we have the title, Puss in Boots, would've been on the left and then the text on the right side. (20:03): Okay. So, this is another picture that I did more recently, but I've done a time-lapse of how this picture took place. So, this is a drawing on a prepared painted panel. Now, I'm working in acrylics for this opening part. These colors were in acrylics, and as soon as the background comes up and becomes more rendered, now I'm starting to use oil paint. Sarah Mackenzie (20:30): Oh, okay. Scott Gustafson (20:30): So, with the oils, I have more time. It takes longer to dry, so I can manipulate the paint differently and I can do fabric and things like that. The colors also, I think, can be richer so that gradually, over a course of days, this is what happened. I'd say it was about a week's worth of painting. But then you can see things gradually start to appear, and when we see the signature, that means the picture's all finished. Anyway, so that gives you an idea of in a short span of time, what happens in the process of a painting. Sarah Mackenzie (21:07): Gorgeous. Scott Gustafson (21:09): And then, back to making books again, here's more pages from Puss in Boots, and this is another vignette that was planned. So, right down the middle of this picture is what's called the gutter. That's where the pages come together in a book. So, I didn't want anything important to happen there. So, even if maybe the king's hand ends up in the gutter, it's not going to be missed too much, but on either sides of that are going to be blocks of text in that white area. Sarah Mackenzie (21:43): Now, the castle here, is that based on a real ... Or, do you look at references for things like that? Scott Gustafson (21:49): Yeah, I do a lot of reference for locations and historical buildings and things. So, all these are period and French, because this is a French story. Sarah Mackenzie (22:01): Oh, yes. Okay, that's fine. Scott Gustafson (22:01): I decided to stick to that. Same with that interior, as we're looking up at the ogre, that those decorations around the cornice of the room. All those things. Even that ... I found references for that footstool that he's got his boot up on. That actually is an actual thing that I found, which I thought was pretty amazing. So, I wanted to use that. The chair he's sitting in, I took a sense of design from the period and made that Griffin chair. But most of those other things are based on actual examples of period furniture and things. Sarah Mackenzie (22:44): Kids who are listening to this, I hope if you are an artist, one of the things you hear is that Scott, who's clearly a very professional artist, looks at things when he paints. Sometimes I hear kids say, "Well, I can only draw if I look at something." We think we should be able to draw just straight out of our brain, but that is not what we hear from illustrators over and over and over again. And Scott is reiterating that today with his mention of references too. So, that- Scott Gustafson (23:09): For some reason we grew up with the idea that, well, if you look at something and draw it, you're cheating, or real artists just make these things up out of their head. You learn pretty soon if you're going to do this in any serious way, that studying life and nature is an integral part of learning how to draw, learning how to paint, understanding how things are put together and how light works. (23:38): And here's an example of my being influenced by existing artwork. And whenever I go into a story and I want to place it in a certain period, I'll also look at artists that worked at that time. So, this is Vermeer, and he was working in the 1600s. That's where I placed this story. So, I thought, "Well, it'd be great if I built a composition similar to the way Vermeer." And he used this room up here that you see as the inset, he used those particular windows in this room with the light coming in, in a number of his paintings. So, I thought, "Well, I'll borrow his background." But it was also fun then to kind of take it a little bit further and make it more lavish as far as the food they're eating and the costumes they're wearing. Sarah Mackenzie (24:33): The tapestry in the back. Yeah. Scott Gustafson (24:34): Exactly. Yeah. And then, here's Snow White. Working on pictures for that. Of course, I'm always aware that Disney did a lot of these stories, but I want to make my own statement. So, it was fun designing my own magic mirror and giving it kind of Baroque elements of design. Sarah Mackenzie (24:55): Is it tricky to do that when you have a picture in your mind of how Disney did Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? Scott Gustafson (25:02): Yeah. And they're ingrained in our culture and in our own minds, because we've seen them since we were little kids. I've even been asked by adults, "So, did you have to get permission to do Snow White, from Disney?" And that always surprises me because I don't think people realize how old these stories are, that they go back hundreds of years and they predate even Walt Disney. Sarah Mackenzie (25:29): And most of the stories that come from Disney are borrowed stories. Right? Scott Gustafson (25:33): Exactly. Yeah. Especially the princess stories, they've been with us, and that's part of why they resonate, because ... Like, Cinderella, I think, is believed to be one of the oldest and most often reworked motifs. People just love that story of someone from rags to riches and someone who is unappreciated and suddenly finds that they've got this ability and they can be loved for who they are. So, anyway, they're inside of all of us. Sarah Mackenzie (26:10): Yeah. Scott Gustafson (26:12): Here's an example of a picture I could spend a lot of time on, that I wouldn't have been able to do in the confines of just the book. So, this was done separately, but I put a lot of extra details into this. I have a book on ancient symbols, and across that beam near the ceiling in the back, I thought, "Well, these are one of the few details we get from the story is that these are dwarfs that work in mining metal from the ground." So, I put seven different symbols for minerals or for metals. (26:51): So, there's gold and there's tin and iron. I don't remember which ones they all are, but I know there are seven of them up there, copper, aluminum probably. But anyway, those are across the top there. And then, the ones in the windows, they're from the same book, but those are the seasons of the year. So, I think it starts with spring, summer, winter, and fall. Sarah Mackenzie (27:13): Oh, that's so cool. These are the things you never know until you get a little sneak peek behind what's- Scott Gustafson (27:19): Yeah. No one's ever come up to me and said, "Oh, I saw those. You hid those in there." I knew I was doing that. So, that's my little private thing. Sarah Mackenzie (27:28): I hope that some kid who's listening to this podcast with their family will meet you someday and say, "I saw those in there." Now they'll know about them. Scott Gustafson (27:38): Well, I'll drop what's left of my teeth when that happens. So, anyway, this was an opportunity to really put a lot of things into their cottage. I had books on the interior of German cottages and things, so I was able to kind of design my own cottage, but using those elements that I found in those books. I also included a cross on that beam that's above the window, I made up a little story about, "Well, if these were dwarfs, they would probably have their own cultural icons." And there's a dwarf in there who's just going out to fight a dragon. And behind the dragon to the left, there's kind of a decimated, burned out forest, and on the right, there's animals running into the rest of the forest. But anyway, this dwarf is coming out to stop the dragon from ruining the countryside. But I just pretended that, well, the dwarfs probably have their own icon and maybe that's him. (28:44): Here's an example of being directly influenced by painters of the past. And this being Rumpelstiltskin, I was thinking, because I love the old Dutch masters and how they handled light and plus, the period, I liked those costumes and things. I decided to look at Frans Hals' pictures. He did a lot of portraits of people during his time period, and I kind of based Rumpelstiltskin on characters like that from the period. (29:13): Also, here's the artist Chardin, who is working about the same time. He's French. And he'll show up a little later on, but I used him for reference as far as how would the miller's daughter dress? What did an average woman ... Because a lot of the paintings we see are of royalty or people of a higher status, and you want to look at the genre paintings of a period to know what everyday people dressed like. Sarah Mackenzie (29:42): Interesting. Scott Gustafson (29:44): And here's Rembrandt on the left, and I love his ... Talking about storytelling with light. He was the master of that. And so, I started from that kind of a concept, putting the light source down low, letting it splash up against the wall, and having an important shadow element as part of the composition. And also, I like the idea that he's spinning straw into gold and we have a lot of golden light in the picture. Sarah Mackenzie (30:15): Yes. Scott Gustafson (30:16): And here is, this is the painter from earlier, Chardin, and I was talking about the genre pictures. Literally, I took this, the tub that she's washing the clothes in, I borrowed his tub from his picture and adapted that to my use. It's a laundry picture. She's doing the laundry. And I thought, "Well, I'll put that out in the fresh air and have the birds coming to help her and stuff, but I'll use a lot of the same elements." (30:47): And here's the big scene before she goes off to the ball. One of the ways that you can make light important is if you make it a warm element in the picture. So, because this is a night scene, everything's cool, but these either artificial lights like the candle light or whatever, those are a warm light, like flame light. But the magic light that's happening as she's transformed into this beautiful gown, that's got kind of a pink glow to it. Sarah Mackenzie (31:23): So, kids at home, open up your Classic Fairy Tales to the Cinderella page. The double spread where the fairy godmother is giving Cinderella her dress for the ball. And just notice what Scott just mentioned there. First of all, the night is blue, that cool light that makes us know that it's nighttime, and it's such a contrast to the warmth of the lights. But I didn't notice, I don't think we talked about this before, Scott, that you just said, that the lantern light and even the gold of the carriage are a warmer orangier kind of light, and then the magic light is rosy. I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it just now, but, oh yeah, and it feels like a different kind of light, like a magic dusty light. Scott Gustafson (32:09): It's nice if you can draw a distinction between light sources. So, the cool light of the moonlight as opposed to the warm light of candle light, and then the magic light that has its own, like you say, kind of a pink glow to it. (32:25): When you're talking about photo reference, I actually rented this costume from a local theatrical costume company, and I picked it out and I said, "Yeah, I'll take that." Took it home. And I couldn't believe how heavy it was when I carried it back to the car. It must've weighed about 50 pounds. I mean, it felt like that. It probably was more like 30. But I kind of felt sorry for the girl that was going to have to wear it. Though, she wore it with the bearing of a princess. Sarah Mackenzie (33:01): I mean, it's really not too tiring to wear a beautiful dress. Scott Gustafson (33:05): She made it look like it was easy. Then we've got the three pigs, and it's really fun when there's a story that just features animals. Human beings are always a little bit more of a challenge. Kids are the most challenging, because you make little mistakes on the face of a kid and it just shows. Everybody knows if you haven't done a kid's face right. It's like, oh- Sarah Mackenzie (33:30): Interesting. Why? What is it about a kid's face that- Scott Gustafson (33:33): It's something about human faces. We're all so aware of each other's faces, that if you don't handle them properly, especially with little kids, it's the difference between a devil and an angel can be a brush stroke. Sarah Mackenzie (33:50): That's true in reality as well, I think. Scott Gustafson (33:54): There would be times, there'd be mornings, I'd be working on a little girl's face on a painting and I'd get up to go to lunch and I'd come back and I'd practically scream, I think, "Who changed this while I was gone? Because it looked great while I was working on it." And that's another thing with painting. If you just spend time looking at it and don't look away, don't give yourself a break, you get used to your own mistakes and they'll get incorporated into the picture. You need to take a break, get away from it and come back. And then you go, "Oh, look at that. There's a mistake, or there's something that isn't working." (34:30): Here's that book along with four others that I've done. Most of them are fairy tales or nursery rhymes or fables. Then here's our website. If you're interested in personalized books, we have those. I can sign them and also make a personalization if you're interested in that. Sarah Mackenzie (34:52): Did you hear that, everybody? You can order a book from Scott Gustafson's website, and he will sign it to your family or your child. That's amazing. We're going to put the link in the show notes. (35:04): I know a lot of kids are going to wonder this question. Do you have a favorite fairy tale of your own? Was there one that you were more excited to paint than others? Scott Gustafson (35:13): Snow White, I enjoyed a lot, because as I mentioned, the story's just got everything. There's a lot of nice elements to it. I think if I were to pick a favorite character, it might be Puss in Boots, because he's got so much spirit. He takes that lowly miller's son and makes a prince out of him, basically. But he doesn't let anything stop him. He uses his imagination and his chutzpah to make things work out for his master. So, I like him as a character. Sarah Mackenzie (35:45): Is there any classic story that you think, "Oh, I would love to paint that."? One that you haven't done before, that you would love to paint? Scott Gustafson (35:55): Alice in Wonderland. I've done a lot of pictures from that, but I haven't done the whole book. Sarah Mackenzie (36:01): We have many, many young artists or parents of young artists in our audience who would never forgive me if I didn't ask you. What can they do to follow a path similar to yours? Do you have any advice for young artists? Scott Gustafson (36:17): I would say, let the child experiment. Let them do the things they enjoy drawing. I say that to young, would-be illustrators as well. Because when I was in school and about ready to get out, one of the things we kept saying, "Well, what do our potential clients want to see?" And it wasn't until I discovered that, "Well, you know what? I think I'm going to do the kind of thing that I think I would like people to see." (36:45): Having gone to school here in Chicago at an art school, and there were a lot of advertisers and clients here, and people say, "Oh, Chicago's a food town. You got to know how to do food product." And that was back when photography wasn't quite as ... Right now, if you were going to see a hamburger or something, you would see a photograph of it, but back then you might see an illustrated character holding an illustrated ... And I just decided, you know what? I wouldn't want to do that anyway, if somebody said, "Can you do hamburgers for us? You can be our hamburger guy." I mean, there are people that do that and that's great, but I wanted to do other things. So, that's how I pursued it, and that's what I recommend. That's the only way I can recommend it. (37:34): I mean, everybody's going to find their own path, and you can only kind of utilize somebody else's experience to a certain extent, but you have to find your own way. And I think finding what's important to you and what you really enjoy is a big part of sharing that with other people and showing that you enjoy it by what you do, so that other people will see that too. Sarah Mackenzie (38:01): Listeners, you can find the links to everything we talked about today in the show at readaloudrevival.com/242. I'll include links to Scott's shop, where you can get those personalized books. Thank you, again, to Scott, and thank you all for listening. We'll see you next time. (38:20): Wasn't that great? I enjoyed that conversation with Scott Gustafson so much. Like I said, there were a ton of gorgeous visuals and it was really a masterclass in the quality of gorgeous art that we have the opportunity to put into the laps of our kids. So, I just think of like Laura Ingalls Wilder and how much she would've loved to have had the quality of art that we can put into our children's hands, let them see up close, let them snuggle in bed and sit with and pore over. Can you imagine her reaction to something like the art quality in Classic Fairy Tales by Scott Gustafson in her home? Ma would've loved it. (39:08): I'll tell you, when I was talking with Scott on video, he was showing some illustrations and I realized, "Wait, I think my mom has some of those fairy tale plates. Actually, I think we might've had those fairy tale plates on the wall of my house when I was growing up." Because Scott talks about how these illustrations actually started as decorative plates of The Frog Prince, and Goldilocks and the Three Bears, and things like that. And so, I sent my mom a few pictures and was like, "Hey, Mom." Afterwards, I texted her and said, "Hey, Mom, did we have these plates on the wall growing up?" And she said, "Yes." And I thought that was so cool, because clearly they imprinted on me and made an impression because I love this collection so very much. (39:55): I do hope you pick up a copy of Classic Fairy Tales by Scott Gustafson and enjoy the art gallery there in your lap, with your child. I know that you'll be so glad you did. You can join us for A Fairy Tale Summer, and we'll show you just how simple and easy and powerful it can be to enjoy excellent stories and art gallery quality illustrations without adding more to your plate. (40:19): Actually, one of the things I love about reading aloud with my kids is that it never really adds anything to your to-do list to read aloud with your kids, because when you read aloud with your kids, you take so many other things off your to-do list. It accomplishes so very much in the minds and hearts of our kids. It's always, always, always a good use of time. Go to readaloudrevival.com/fairytale and you can learn more about A Fairy Tale Summer. Okay, it's time to hear what Read-Aloud Revival kids are reading and loving. Speaker 3 (40:55): Hi, my name is Annika. I'm nine years old and I'm from Texas. And I like City Spies because it's adventurous and daring. Speaker 4 (41:06): Hi, my name is Carissa and I'm from Texas, and I'm seven years old. And my favorite book is Strega Nona because it's really funny. Speaker 5 (41:22): Hi, my name is Lucy. I live in Indiana. And the book I [inaudible 00:41:28] is Little Town on the Prairie. Carrie and Grace went out Pa because he had a little new kitty. Aww. And they had a blast because this kitty was fighting with a mouse, and then the kitty won. Woo-hoo. Bye. I love you. Speaker 6 (41:55): My name is Bea and I live in the Missouri Ozarks. I recommend a book called Through the Keeper's Door by Melissa Kline. I've read it four times and it's just as good the fourth time. It has adventure and danger in another world. Fans of Narnia and Green Ember will love this book. Speaker 7 (42:12): Hi, my name is Nadia. I'm eight years old. I live in Minnesota. My favorite book is Astrid the Unstoppable, because she goes skiing. Speaker 8 (42:28): My name is Johanna. I'm six years old. I live in Minnesota. And my favorite book is The Penderwicks, because Batty likes music. Speaker 9 (42:42): Hi, my name is Fisher. I'm six years old and I am from Wisconsin. My favorite book is Peanuts: The Unsinkable Charlie Brown. I like this book because Lucy pulls away her football and Charlie Brown falls on the ground. Sarah Mackenzie (42:58): Thank you, kids. Hey, by the way, we need more kids' messages. I would love to hear the books that your kids or teens are loving. So, leave them in a voicemail. Go to readaloudrevival.com/message. It's very easy to leave me a voicemail there, and we air them on the show in the order we receive them. So, if your kids want to be famous on the Read-Aloud Revival podcast, have them leave a message. Tell us what book that they've loved, where you live, what they loved about the book. It's so fun. (43:28): I'll be back in two weeks with another episode, but in the meantime, you know what to do. First of all, go to readaloudrevival.com/fairytale to join us for A Fairy Tale Summer, and go make meaningful and lasting connections with your kids through books.