Every five minutes. He's just like you know, sometimes I just want to do some coke with my wife, you know, it's so funny. I love it. Is any like, he just kept saying like, it's like so obviously, like a Libertarian Saya like every single, the way that he frames it is like, it's great for work-life balance and it's like, well, no shit heroines going to make work better. You know, that's not what's really up for debate here.
But like, he seems totally lost to the fact that at him using heroin, as a tenured professor at an ivy, is different than some working Schmo making 30 grand a year getting hooked on opiates. Yeah. Oh like instructions, crazy dude. Like like I'm in construction and when you'll just be doing like 10 to 12 hour shifts, you'll you'll just see a guy like digging with an excavator with sunglasses on it too, in the morning. You're like, well, yeah, that's
probably not good. Yeah, and the guys, the guys just like that. Loving it, man. It's great. It's like, Heart wants the words heavy machinery Carl? Yeah yeah yeah I really think his goal. I mean I would not be surprised. I'm like so fucking sorry I opted at this point like I just see conspiracies everywhere and it seems kind of like course. Yeah. And it seems like he'd be very useful. I think his ultimate goal is to give big Pharma cover to frame drug addiction.
In back as a personal as an issue of personal failure, and not as an issue of systemic Rod so much mores. This is this charming, dude. It's like killing it. Yeah. But it's even he, you could tell he's coming to it as like, what's this heroin? You know, he's like he's going through the same thing. Everyone else. Like he hasn't finished the experiment yet. That's what other thing. I don't like you trust science, right?
Wait. Till that conclusion to the experiment, like yeah, we haven't gotten there yet. So let's begin this two and a half years. Going, great. You know, that's getting yeah. Similar systems that he's going to go on like a book tour and run out of jug and then just get sick and he's gonna be all shit. I guess, I guess this is more of a problem. Dad bod Carl Hart. Stole my car radio the other day Jesus. Yeah, yeah baby. I can't do that shit.
Broke either way, I think, only physically, Rockne crypto told me. I should bring a Glock with me. So I packed up my piece and I'm sliding slide because we might get caught up in a riot, middle finger drunk little finger biting. Fuck I love fucking right as you ride. Real love to see those rocket can do politics, baby. We just talk from the birds to the breaks. We be in a mix with that rare candy. Paint job on a with. Who you it. Well, okay, let's introduce Miss
you, we have Adam leader here. You were here with Ben last time just solo this time, but system of systems since then you started a sub stack correct? Yeah. Safety propaganda. Hell yeah. What's the meaning behind that name to? I was 10. It's from a piece of text from JG. Ballard's crash about, it's probably one of my bigger literary influences, JG Ballard, but yeah. And then And Cronenberg made crash into a movie, right? 1906.
Yeah. But the lion safety propaganda stuck with me during covid, are especially, just because of the idea that like, lockdown restrictions and all these things, it's like easier to sell people propaganda under the guise, has at them of them keeping safe.
It's no different than, like, 9/11 was used to initiate the Patriot Act. I mean, it's all I mean, like massive changes in political economy and infringement upon the civil liberties are always kind of sold under the guise that they'll make you safer somehow and since people are just like and liberals to or just like in a permanent state of cocked cowardice that they just kind of eat that shit Hook Line and Center. So the line Fine.
I was kind of I have like 12 different titles that I wanted to use and then that was the one that people kept telling me was like, the one that I should go with and I guess I agreed. But the, the project itself is basically, I'm gonna eventually turn it into a magazine. Like, grow it into like a biennial or kind of magazine, but I wanted to just, like, have a space where I could because I'm at the point now, where Like
a pretty sizable audience. Yeah, and I know I'm smarter than most of the people who I was working with as an as editors and that people kind of go to me for a specific thing. Yeah. And I wanted to like create a space where I could publish people that I thought were saying interests, right? Thanks and yeah, we couldn't get their stuff published elsewhere and I'm forgetting the guys name but when you because I'm still new to the sub stack model.
But the Fascination article, the vaccine skepticism that you're growing studies first off. I thought it was you. I was like, I was like, well, I always think. Yeah. I was like. Oh, hell yeah. But then I did. It was degree studies, that's correct. And that's another guy. I think we're going to have on the show pretty soon, I believe. Yeah. It says, he's sharp. Yeah, really good. Really, good articles. You're doing everything on
there. It doesn't like because I thought it was just going to be like, an art subset. But then, you know, you're talking about fauci and they're talking about Lockdowns time of other stuff. Stuff that to me, who I'm not an art guy at all. But it's that's something that could Usher me into that side of the world perfectly because you got you totally, you tie it into everything else. It's not just look how much our Dino you know. Look right. Yeah, yeah. Well you and your go ahead.
All right, go ahead. Sorry go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say that like same thing I'm like you know, I'm in a music and stuff. I've never been like good crazy visual art guy, you know, I guess I'm getting more into. I'm trying to get more To it, but I knew that, you know, going to like University, you know, and seeing like the stuff you talked about about the art world and about these cult, these cultures that we live in. Now they're just all total
bullshit and like a facade for. So I mean seeing like a visual artist like talk about that shit rather than being in it and entrenched in it, I was like oh this guy's got something to say, you know, that's kind of what clued me into, you know, because there's so few people critiquing it from the inside and it's so
totally just, you know. Yeah. And I don't know, just that hold Matrix of like You know, the art world and like Neo live universities and you know, the whole thing all conglomerate together basically. Yeah. Yeah. You know what it is is like like for a long time, both as an artist and then later as a writer I was just kind of trying to have a career like going along to get along. Yeah. And sort of like biting my tongue. You then I still ended up
getting fucked and you know. Yeah so so at that point Point. It just became so obvious that to like take half-measures and only say, half of what you think is. So fucking pointless because he still ended up walking on
eggshells, right? And since I've like, I guess it's been like the last year and a half that I've had this sort of Built this whatever, this thing of mine and so many people that I know in the art world that I know are smart and that I know like hate this shit that they're surrounded by.
Yeah, I just wanted to like give them a mechanism from which they could actually say it. And now it's like, like I said, this to my friend yesterday, I was at a, my pals on a gallery in Brooklyn. They're all on a pretty similar wavelength is me but to varying degrees. And I was talking to my friend rap about it and he was just like telling me that he had heard these like bigger industry
people out at a dinner. One night, talking shit about me calling me like a reactionary, whatever, but he said he could tell from their tone that he knew on some level that the content that I was putting out there. Is the best content coming out like period and the shit that people are talking about the most.
So, even the people that are like, my sort of natural enemies have kind of started paying attention and have had to give up. Respect, like I have like, 60 year old shit, Libs, Like, Walter Robinson, like old art critics who no one cares about anymore, but still have lots of clout like trolling me on my Instagram and Twitter account because they Is no. It's like there's a, there's a there's like a shift happening. Yeah.
There's like, all these like, I don't know if you guys read the interview with my pal, the painter, Alexander hard, a little bit. Yeah, I read it on the email part of it. Yeah, I mean, it's like one of the fucking most based artist interviews like I've ever read in my life, like he, he, I couldn't believe how forthright he was in answering those statements, and it's like the
More that shit happens. All of a sudden, the discourse becomes kind of more heated again and I hope things will start to get more interesting again. Alright, I hope so too and that's weird. I know I said with the format would be but let's get into the substance that was originally you came on here to talk about to talk about some sub Stacks up. Then we have some whole other stuff to talk about that just came up today. But yeah.
Well, you know is weird about the sub stack, my life first off, I love it, I love it. A couple of my buddies, I'm kind of in the sports world. On Twitter for football. And a lot of these guys are writing for, like, really archaic ancient blogs, their numbers are capped. Like it's the same people that are going to watch watch it as five years ago, nothing more no growth.
And they're kind of censored and they're only making just a little bit per article, but I have some guys who analyze film football film and there, I just told him, I'm, like, certain subset and it's cause it's like, why I saw you? I might just start one. See what happens. You know, I mean, yeah, and that now, they're in love with it, you know, I mean, it's truly good.
Now, the downside Side of this. Is when you look at Greg Glenn, greenwald's timeline, when you look at Glenn, greenwald's timeline and we're Greenwald stands out. Um, I think you like Glenn Greenwald to I boys. Yeah. And heat, like, I just saw that someone the other day, I don't remember the, the journalist that said it, but they were like, and this blogger, Glenn Greenwald. He became a blogger now, you know? Okay, so obvious, I up.
Yes, not only that, like this was the kids crazy like, yeah, they called him a blogger but the end he's just so good. He I mean he is to online like aren't we? All you know but like he he does his own the fuck out of people. It's so funny because yeah he was was it the guardian right? Or have I think was the guardian Glenn Greenwald technically won his Pulitzer Prize with the guardian for the Snowden story I
think fits. Yeah and yeah so this guy in the guardian you like hasn't done a shit is calling him like an ineffective blogger calling the guy that that one that he won their only Pulitzer. Rise in 200 years, they've been going for 200 years and he comes along, helps them win a Pulitzer Prize with the one of the biggest stories of the of this Century, right? And then they're calling him a vlogger like, you know, a couple years later. Yeah. Or however many, you know, it's
good. And it's so there's some. Yeah, they're the most like, scared class of pmc's. I feel, you know, there the weirdest, it's the weirdest thing these modern journalists are so they're well think of how a shame they must be to like work at the fucking like they can call him a blogger. All he wants. The fact remains that the last remaining and I'm not a journalist per say, I'm more like a surrealist journalist if
it was anything. But but I mean like, Michael, Tracy, Greenwald. I mean it's only like a few like actual journalists left, but I think about what do you think about leaf and what you think about Lee Fang while we're on that topic? We sang is dope.
I mean he has like I probably disagree with him on a couple of things but he gets it. But you know, he's like people like leap and Greenwald and Tracy, these kind of like 90s ish Gen-X left liberals that are like like those are sort of Bourgeois like those are like like noble bourgeoise like they can be counted on to defend and protect the rights that you know the bourgeoisie these of the late 19th century actually did die for like we we hate our like our bourgeoisie now because
they're terrible but the fact remains that the French Revolution was fought by Aristocrats who bled and died. I'd for the right to be able to escape to speech to assemble. So it's not like, but and that's why you have people now, like Greenwald and and Lee Fang in these types. They sort of, they're not like, pushing for like, like, I don't think these guys are really advocating for a push towards socialism in any meaningful way, but you can't have that
struggle. Unless you have these sort of Bedrock Defenders of the principles that have already been one, which is why I like, they are so much easier like we can read their stuff and it makes so much more sense and it's so much more refreshing than like, 95% of the people who have like anarchists socialists, feminista Marc Thiessen, their fucking profiles, who are almost unanimously, like just lives, you know, just yanari lives, you know, it's good to have people
like that like Grand Glenn, Greenwald Seas. Things. Very clearly he understands how propaganda works and he's been probably probably better than any journalist in in helping us understand how these mechanisms function. Yes, and seeing fascism like, I'm saying, like, no, no, how many American journalists have seen Fascism. And I only want you to answer this because there are some people that would be like, well, somebody Trump in the court on when I see ya.
And some of these people it's still like a big account like leftover two counts. When I first came to like the left part of Twitter to because of Bernie, I'm like, okay, I want Bernie to win, you want Bernie to win? This should be cool. And some of these people are in there and they're like trying to own Greenwald who's like arguing with a shit lib that they make fun of on top.
Oh, I'm like what the hell? Yeah, I'm like so so that you made fun of it's like your parents almost where you're like, look, like, I'm going to make fun of my parents, put political beliefs if I see somebody else doing it. I You know, stepped in and I'm like, what is this?
Like. So this whole thing where they're obfuscating his role and making him a blogger and doing this like so do you do you I don't know your history as far as where you've written for as a you know art critic or anything like that but like do you feel like you still have to fight for like maybe some credibility doing a sub stack like the independent model if that makes any sense you know like where I mean I'm sure they're yeah I mean you have people like the
anarchists DJ or whatever it will be. Like, oh, this guy's got an Instagram for his sub stack but I'm like, what the fuck do I care? You know, like I do, I'm in a row. I've kind of relished the antagonistic role. I don't need everybody to like me. I know at the end of the day that I'm right and that, you know, the way I think is probably more interesting than
these people. And I think like, I don't want to know like spill too much, but I've had personal interactions with Glenn Greenwald and I'm pretty sure. He feels the same way, he's very like indefatigable and so is Tracy, by the way, Tracy literally just fucking lives to shitpost like I mean he's a real journalist but he really also is like that super smart like smarmy Debate Club kid who is just like an amazing poster and really has it like down to an art? Yeah, that's right.
Well, Tracy is interesting because I remember like I remember being because being like, Stalin line with this stuff and being a being like a Bernie bro, Chapo thing and and everyone's dunking on Tracy, right? And you're kind of like, you're like yeah you know, you're kind of, you know, you're just like oh yeah this guy's because let's be honest like Tracy's pretty easy to make fun of in a lot of ways from like a like a nerd jock standpoint, right?
Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, the feet, the feet, the Tulsi, the feet, the Maxi water. I call that. Yeah. But after a while it's like, I'm I was like, wait these critics of him mark. Actually saying, anything, all they're doing is being like, Oh, bad, take, bro. Like that thing, you know, and I'm like, he's actually like he's saying the stuff that let's
be honest. Like a lot of us are thinking that are cornered at that point at least was like, afraid to say it. He's more akin to the conversations I here at like random places in life like where I'll just be somewhere and I'll see just to kind of Working Class People talking. That's like though they're talking about more of the Michael Tracy take than you would. I don't know who some like woke journalist is I don't read them but you know like yeah.
Yeah, something like that. That what, you know, like Tracy, like, so during the primary Ike, okay. So I pretty much like I had the feeling that something was going horribly wrong with the Bernie campaign, like kind of early, especially these feelings kind of coalesce for me, at his ship, my wife, Michelle and I went to the rally, he did in Long Island City. Oh, yeah. And that was the one where AOC announced her. Her endorsement. She gets up and does Her speech.
And she's saying all this, like, fucking nonsense like environmental racism, blah, blah blah. And I'm like, looking around being like, how the fuck are they going to sell any of this shit to, like your average voter? And then, meanwhile, I kind of took a look around me and I had all these fucking dies a Gaylords, like, with like that with like their braids, in their dreadlocks, like being like yeah.
Then Bernie Sanders and and Michael Tracy was like, saying a lot of this shit about the left specifically like, throughout the primary like there's no centrality to the belief system? Like yeah. Are you guys like like the the case for Bernie is like a way to organize the working-class along class lines, get rid of the whoop, - that kind of shit, right? But by the Tracy was pointing out but that's not really. It is. You have these BLM people, you have the Anti-Imperialist types.
Like, there's no kind of cohesiveness to what these people want and that doesn't bode well for a long-term presidential campaigns, and I was like, kind of trying to suppress what he was saying, even though I knew he was right. I was like, can you please stop being such a prick? Exactly. Yeah, but he was like a thousand percent, right? And after That kind of happened. I started taking it more seriously as a journalist.
Yeah, Michael. Tracy's whole Persona is the Hannibal, Hannibal, Buress gift from like the Eric Andre show where he's like, why are you blowing me? I'm right. Like that's that's but but like you said he leans into it because he knows there comes a point where I tell certain people like we, you know, we're like we kind of had on the covid.
Stuff is like our main focus with with this and like there's guy Alex Berenson on, he's been on Rogan and he's kind of a speaking out on. The vaccine clinical trials and stuff like that. But he's kind of the same way where I think he knows he can't go back some people.
Some journalists kind of like tow that line where they're like, yeah, I'm gonna gonna get into some edgy stuff here, but I still need to not burn my bridge here but at the end of the day that bridge is probably already burnt because you really hit. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's gone. So I like the way the Greenwald leans into it, I like the way Tracy leans into it, I like the way it.
Woohoo time. I Alex Berenson leans into it because these did the lives and the left will never let you forget, get any forgiveness for what? You did. So it's you got to just double down I made and there's like I've definitely burned every bridge, but what happened was like I found an audience that is like a better audience like I got up, I got offered a book
deal. Like you know we got a pretty big audience on the show and take the propaganda has got a shit load of fucking subscribers and like clearly there, you know you can't there's something about like this modern version of liberalism about like likability and just like trying to square yourself into Box that kind of just like hits every single cultural mood or whatever. Yes. And but like, the cultural mood is all liquid, like we're in liquid modernity.
Like there's no sort of centrality to like the structure of the system. So why the fuck would you try and like, it's fake? Like, everything's a fucking psyop. There's no point. Like, I understand like financially people are probably still afraid to torch their Lively hoods. But honestly, I like aren't most fucking writers. Make it like, 28k like 35k here. Anyways. I yeah, might as well like. I don't know. I'm, I'm a big believer in the idea that like courage is
rewarded in the long term. Yeah. And I don't think if you're trying to be an artist or any kind of creative person then making work from this kind of standpoint of either famed moral vanity. Or conformism or cowardice is just going to you know your legacy is going to have to live and die by that and I think 25 years from now when we look back on this era we will probably read history books like journalism became a fucking
psyop. Fucking tabloids bullshit and then these heroic Freaks and every aspect of the media went to sub stack and fuck shit up. Yeah. That being said I don't think you know, I think sub sack is probably vulnerable. Oh yeah. Same sort of like Bourgeois State, both stayed in the long run but for the time being it seems to be quite an excellent platform. Yeah, I was going to say so you know, we it's tough to do any kind of true free journalism, right? Like it's tough because even sub
stack, right? What I do see a lot of people trying to regulate substep, right? Like they're trying to I don't know if it's if there's any Real mass movement behind it as just Twitter stuff that I see. But do you see some stack giving in to it or do you think subset will ever just be like nah. Fuck it. We're just the we're the bad guys, you know, like where the I
don't know. Yeah. It is interesting to think that maybe like the company itself has sort of the same mentality as like the writers who have gravitated to the to the platform. Like maybe they have this sort of like, angsty Outsider thing that they want to play up that said just knowing how Ow Capital functions right now. It's financially beneficial to them to be in these controversies in these
controversies. As soon as Financial interests are being encroached upon maybe it'll change but I think what's going to happen is like there's going to be a vacuum for it now. Hmm. So as soon as I like it's a sub stack does like take down profiles like all of a sudden.
Nick land or mold bug kicked off, something else is going to replace it like, you know, like people like these people are getting like massive audiences again and there's obviously like a real kind of hunger for raw content and I don't know. I mean, how can anyone even read the New York Times? So, it's all such a scandalous trash. I mean, Guardian is fucking satanic as far as I'm concerned. Like, every kind of like, uber live tard, like, take sort of trickles down words from Guardian.
Where it'll be like, what is it like other kins like other kin like what is that the word for people? Who think they're non-human or whatever. Oh, the Tree the tree guy. Yeah. Yeah. Tree, tree song. Yeah, that's what I just said to myself but yeah, other kin networks. Yeah. That was my first like maybe not my first, but one of the big red flags with Chomsky where he was like, you know, he's like yeah, I'm the manufacturing consent guy but you, you got to read the
New York Times, right? He's like, you got to read it for four hours a day to understand. And he was like, very serious about this, and he kept fucking psycho. Yeah. He's like, you know, you it's the best. You gotta. Out what's going on and like, apply your filter and like and then vote and vote. For the guy they say to vote for, you gotta do that. It's just an exercise. Yeah. So I was like, man. Doesn't add up here.
Yeah, yeah. He's like JFK wasn't shot by the government and it doesn't matter even if he was and read the New York Times and I'm like wait what like what is the fuck? Yeah this is like, what's going on weird man?
You know my brother had a meeting with Chomsky once is my brother my brother's a city planner on Cape Cod and he had some like Yeah. It's some like academic questions for Chomsky when he was still at MIT and he went into his office and when was this probably like 10 years ago and then Chomsky black killed him on Israel.
Nice guys. Yeah, because like my brother that point was still probably just like a shit lived, you know, like he hadn't thought much about politics but and he went there and he supposed to ask him questions about City Planning and chomsky's. Like forget about that. How do you feel about? My brother's like I don't know. I'm Jewish. I guess I support it. Yeah. It sounds like, you know, that they're all authoritarian dictatorship.
My brother was like what and he was like, showing them stats about Palestinians, but that being said, fuck Chomsky. The guys, the guys are rolling politics is very obvious at this point. It's, I mean, yeah, he's just like a, he's a towering figure. Of course, you know, and like, respect for what, he's like the Jay. He's like a jazzy of intellectual. Is there something? You know? I was like, all right, that's a great compare. Yeah, he's like, yeah. Yeah.
He's a little soft like yeah. Kind of respects him anymore but you have to when he's in the room kind of? Yeah. Probably wears flip-flops, you know. Yeah. And I said, I didn't like that last Jay-Z album. Everyone's like, what? You don't like hip-hop. Yeah. It's kind of the same way if you're like I don't know if I like Chomsky. Same Beau, Biden. They're like what's like you think fascism is on the way? Like yeah. Yeah. It's not a narco live though.
Yeah. He was really, really good at defining propaganda and like showing how it works but he was never really advocating for anything different to the system as it already exists. And I think a lot of people on the left have really kind of lionized him as this figure. Yeah, because he was quite courageous for a long time. Yes. Still has a few courageous stance. Has he'll still like support a fucking Holocaust deniers rights, it speechless.
That he does have balls in a lot of ways but he's also just like a paranoid old man who doesn't know how to look at what's right in front of him anymore. And as, as he warned about in the book, then recuperated back into the same propaganda machine that he defined in manufacturing consent. Boom. Yeah, yeah. Kind of yeah, yeah. That's, that's the same thing I see with. But you said, like like all, you
know, Tom skill. Still defend it like a A coster's didn't write to speak, you know, or just anything. And like I saw the same kind of concept happening with Greenwald, where green wall was like. Yeah, the people at the Capitol should still have like due process. The people that storm the capital like shit saw due process people. Like what you think? These fucking animals should have this and then like again, when they're liberals saying
this, I don't get that mad. When I say people that I probably agreed with on a lot of things a year and a half ago, I'm like, what the fuck? But in my head, I think, okay, there are things that happened in 2020 So that nobody could have prepared for, you could have read a bunch of stuff, you could have read all this stuff, but it, when that thing, when the crate, when the biggest threat I've ever seen to the working class hits us like a covid lockdown.
You know? I mean, or when the fucking Biden election, psyop, the happens right in front of your eyes and we've talked about it when we had crk on. If you can't diagnose this shit in real time, I have no interest. I don't want to hear about your your 5 episode patreon series five years from now about how this happened, you know what? When you support it at the time. You know, I just, yeah, I valued people like that Chomsky can't do it in real time. Like now, I maybe he was back in
the 60s, but I don't think. Well, that's honestly how I'm judging people now or analyzing. I'm sure you guys are the same, you know, where you're kind of like, okay, who Among Us is calling the shit out in real time. How long does it take for certain? Because, you know, it's not, it's okay for it to take time to figure stuff out and to grow and totally. And but, you know, if you're like, it's like the fucking lock
down. But, you know, if you're if we're like month, 14 into this hole, Covid thing and you're like, wait, how this benefit? Big check. Like I'm a leftist. I don't get it. You know. Like any of your like, okay. Why is Big too bad? I don't get it, I'm alive. Yeah, like yeah, it's like you have nothing to offer me. Think about that. CIA video. Let's get another transition. True podcaster right there. He's good at. Yeah. Yeah that's it was so beautiful man.
I really think it was like the best artwork. The last like three years. Like everything that I've said for like years now about intersectionality just comes to life and that video. And the easiest way to pinpoint, it's never been easier to pinpoint enemies because most people are people that we can consider Pals of Conrad's or whatever are the ones who are saying, told you this fucking
lip tarde. Bullshit is just Security State propaganda meant to so dissent, amongst the ranks of the working class, Bubba. Blah, blah, blah. And then the other people, the leftists who are lost in the co P. Mm, Dan are posting cringe about like they're like posting cringe about how? Oh, just because the CIA has recuperated this language doesn't mean they mean it and I'm like, bitch. Do you think they're like, I don't think a CIA video is going to be like, hey proletariat arm yourself.
Kill your bosses. But, you know, they're there for Like the diversity angle is obviously, just so useful to keep people confused in alienated. I was so happy about that video though. And what was I had another point that I was just going to say, oh shit. Did you guys just watch the queue and on Doc, you docu-series know, my parents did. I've been I've been kind of scared to watch it. What is it on? It's HBO. Yeah, yeah. Well, you have my password HBO Max.
Yeah, we're watching it. We're In it every week, my pal, Zach, the one who was on the yeah, hard at the soda of SOS, he's a total sock freak, but it was really fascinating to me and just while we're on this subject of psyops, because it was like, it was not bad. This series, especially like a good behind the scene stuff on the 80 Chen, guys. Like these guys are fucking MKUltra. Yes, out of their mind, it's sad.
Yeah, yeah, it's fun. Echo, but the documentary totally failed to contextualize true and on for Q and on and true. Okay. Yeah, sure. Wise q and on as like an extreme version of a tendency towards conspiratorial thinking, that it's become almost like hegemonic in and of itself, like they're interviewing as their expert opinion. This fucking fucking dickweed from The Daily Beast, The Daily Beast. This guy's like talking a big game mode ruined on, or sorry. That's such a broad audience,
laughs, and it's very fluid. And I like it. Oh yeah, you and I on is like so bad, you know, they're all, they're all sigh off. They don't know what to believe anymore. And it's like, dude, how do you feel about Russia gate? I guarantee you still believe that that shit is real. Like yeah, so It's made from like we're always sort of seeing these things from the same perspective. So no one is really getting like an actual kind of cultural reading of what's Happening.
Yeah, that goes back to my thing that, you know, we all indulge in various conspiracies to various degrees. Some of some of us more than others. I think of us on here are on the higher end of the spectrum, but but, I mean, the point of spectrum? Yeah. But the, with the lives, like on, you're putting on your point on the daily. Yeah. Daily Caller, right?
Yeah, that fucking They pick the lamest conspiracies like they always go like all in poker chips, on the lame ones that aren't real, you know, laughs, funny left parnas yeah. What about left parnas? Donald ignore ignore - yeah, they'll ignore like, the 80% of cool ones that have tin.
You know, I have like a lot of like the Jones Ian ones, you know, that have tens of changes of Truth to them and likely some of the dumbest fucking ones that are spoon-fed of them by the literal City. It's so yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's it's I don't know. I need to watch that because I don't know because yeah, I'll talk with this like with my brother because he's really
known species. But he's like this kubinashi, it's bullshit and like you know, it is a lot of you know, they do believe in that trumps not the savior of like, you know, like abused children. That's you know, that's that one. Well fly. That's what I was gonna say is like I actually have a hot Take On Cue and on which is that It might be actually a positive development in society and not that like, like these motherfuckers are obviously off the deep end.
Yeah. But it's also an expression of like a masse realization amongst people that they are being lied to exactly every fucking day of their lives.
I actually have the exact same figure that it's like they are You know, they might be technically wrong but for the right reasons and not even that technically wrong on the bigger picture stuff, you know, that's kind of how it right when it's like, you know, it's not like it's not like a lip like Stephen Colbert, will be after be like these cute on guys think that the people in power are abusing kids that crazy right now.
He has to say that like on stay. That's and he's wrong, of course, you know they're right on that, you know, just for one isolated topic or incident. Yeah, but no I agree on. How could you say that with a fucking straight? Face won't. We just like Epstein just happened. Like yeah I'm so you know like it's saying like they're fucking cultural memory. Yeah. Like longer than 2 days back.
Yeah. But I was like guarantee like a lot of people in true and on will obviously get to the point where it's just ceases like you know because there's a libidinal appeal are all there and they're like oh fuck another q drop bro like it's sick it will get to the point where they'll be like all right none of this shit is Sense anymore. Yeah, let's find something that actually has more explanatory
power. I guarantee I could fucking radicalize some like Q pilled says, I opted like alienated weird go to class struggle way easier than I could like with someone you know one of my neighbors and lip tar Queens over here. Yeah you should you should just drop a safety propaganda sub stack. Lincoln the Acute message boards, you should just be like, hey guys, I stumbled on this is a little left, I guess, I'd say, maybe he's on the left, I don't know, but let's just get it on.
Yeah, it's not another guy, I'm just saying but yeah, let's get to that. I want to, I want to use our great Zoom technology to put the CIA video on here just so the YouTube viewers and then maybe even the other listeners Can listen on here. So this is from, I love when the oan guys post them, because like, they get, really, really fucking mad about that. But I even though they were probably like Pro CIA under, like other, Republican administrations. But yeah, it's very funny.
Let's see here playing, I'll be right back. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. When I was 17, I quoted Zora Neale hurston's how it feels to be colored in my college application essay. The line that spoke to me stated simply I am not tragically colored. There is No sorrow. My God. Hi, you're lurking behind my eyes. I do not mind at all, at 17. I had no idea what life would bring. But Sora sentiment articulated. So beautifully, how I felt as a daughter of immigrants, then and sorrow sentiment.
That's what I heard more like. Sorry. Yeah, Sorrows, I am perfectly made. I can wax eloquent on complex, legal, issues, English while. Also belting why a Gilda me, some more tests. Oh my God, it's so good. It's really good. What my friend, Barrett avner calls trans umbrella. Yeah, Mom, I am a cisgender millennial. Who's been diagnosed with generalized anxiety? Disorder assist? I'm a mentally ill cisgender and
exercise. I am a walking declaration, a woman all my collection does not rise. At the end of her sentences. Suggesting that a question, it's great. So I sneaked into CIA my employment. Soldiers, that don't get caught my two sons and I struggle leaving the office when I feel, there's so much more to do. I used to struggle with imposter syndrome, but at 36, I refuse to internalize misguided. Article ideas of what it should be. I am tired of feeling like I'm supposed to apologize for the
space. I occupy, rather than intoxicate people with my effort. My Brilliance. I am proud of me, you know, everybody's rolling their fucking eyes around the office. Like God, leave it to the CIA to just totally fucked himself. Never yeah, it's too transparent. I stand here today. A proud first generation Latina and officer at CIA. I am Munna party, sir. Tsunami. I want you to be unapologetically you, whoever you are. No, you're worth command your
stress. Just the absolute fucking blood boiling blood, you know, just the Latina working for the CIA would be really funny if they still had her a mop and a bucket at the end of The Skit like they just handed Reich. Get to work. Yeah, that's like that's like a South Park forever. Be offering her intersectional brainpower to to silence the patriarchal Rage of like some labor Uprising and Guatemala. Exactly.
Like let me get rid of these Patriarchs and then have like some CIA death squad eradicate that I figure you gotta protect Coca-Cola down here is what we have to do it. Yeah it could survive lithium? Yeah. Yeah you on must shit. Yeah. The The should have had like Charlotte climber come in and hug her, just just drag all come here and it. Yeah, but the see I think it's not these these, these left toys, don't understand it because it sits there not just
adopting this language. This is the real red pill, but they're not just adopting it on ironically, and at it, it's, you know that it's used in a negative sense. They started this shit. They fucking spearheaded this whole thing for like seven decades, they've at least they've been doing this, you know who read? Me on the, on the, on the CIA, with all these like cultural social movements is Jonathan lethem, the biologists we had on. Yeah. And he we're all cool. You listen?
Yeah, well, he and he is the furthest thing from like a reactionary MRA type. He's like, he's like he's like extremely left, you know, in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, I would say more than what's being culturally offer today and in you know, whatever and whatever said I do want to Define them or anything, you know, but he's He's into it. And he's like, yeah, you know, like Gloria Steinem was like a CIA prop, right? I'm like, wait, why aren't I was
like what? I didn't know I was like, I thought I knew some shit and I was like, I don't for a while I was like, oh no man. Like this is a little weird and I, we can do it in. Like yeah, she's like a John Krasinski from from the office like that Vibe. You know, the whole? Yeah, they're, they're do good work. You know, what's the big deal? Actually, the lip tar feminists, like, all of them were pretty much Spooks. But, I mean, like, he keeps But
Zach, same guy, right? He's a noise musician, but he's also written a lot. He's ghost written, a lot of critical theory for urban knob neck, which publishes like Nick, land and resin are Dasani and stuff like that. I have to finish this book by May 31st. And then I have a novel outline but him and I are going to be collaborating on a book together. You guys will fucking love this shit. It's gonna be tracking all the famous avant-garde artists who had Had intelligence connections.
Because if you start, yeah, dude. But the Morrison Jim Morrison. Let's go. I'm ready. And like, you're talking like Jackson Pollock Vibe too kind of thing. Jackson, Pollock. Yeah. Like had an actual contract with the CIA. Like it was direct like like this sort of commercial with him. Yeah. Well the CIA believed abstract expressionism was a way that they could like they could use it as propaganda because it was
there. Trying Show like this could only come from the American Freedom Spirit opposed of this like rigid Soviet art. That was happening at the time. Yeah. But even people like a writer, I love like Philip K dick. There is this fantastic interview with him. That happened on a French TV channel. And the first starts pretty innocuous and shit, and he's talking about how good the French have been to him. And like the French was first, first people to take him seriously as an artist and not
just the Sci-Fi writer. Yeah. But then the conversation goes to cointelpro. And he starts saying, oh, you know, all through the late 60s, I lived in paranoia and fear, and once 1972 happen in quintal proact, got Abolish, I felt that fear go away, but in my mind, I
know all the rumors about him. And so I know the real reason that anxiety went away is the fucking CIA flipped, Philip K dick, which makes sense when you look at his work because that's when he published like man in the High Castle is total propaganda for Bourgeois democracy. Yeah so much of a shit. We love has been fucking sigh. Upping our brains to the right-wing our whole lives. Philip k--. Lib is yeah, yeah. Well dude, I reread you because when you tweeted about it.
Yeah, that's sort of crazy ass book made. Ya gotta read that in the most surreal novels ever written. It's one of the ones where you read it and you immediately want to reread it. You're like, wait, what the fuck is she here? Absolutely, yeah, I hadn't read it a long time and it really kind of blew my mind how good it is because you kind of read him when you're a kid.
If you Like sci-fi or whatever, but then you get older and you realize he's as good as anyone was in there and it's Century. Well I got more into sci-fi stuff like later on me too. Yeah, yeah, and so I but yeah you can tell it is weird. He's one of those artists that has been all his Works have been co-opted by like literally Amazon and all these crazy corporations but it's still, it's still slats, you know? That's the we're totally. Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
Yeah, it's about what the with the CIA thing is funny because the left response I've been seeing like the like the irony left. Response. I've been seeing is because I was, like, shit live responses. That were just basic, like, it was to a Michael Tracey tweet. I don't even remember what like, Michael Tracy tweeted, but I think he was basically saying the argument.
Okay, Michael Tracy here, says the argument will, of course, be made that the CIA is only espousing woke ideology as a cynical Ploy, not because the ideology serves to entrench the cia's power just like every other Corporation and hegemonic, cultural, political institution, all just one big coincidence. Oz. And yeah, and that just like said Twitter on fire today, and but the left response is always just like, oh, like its oh, it's bad now because it's woke.
It's like, dude, it's always bad and you like it now, that's the problem. Yeah, you're fine right now. It worked on you, this? Yeah, it works ever write. This NCI is never right. I never trust the CIA and you can talk to see. I could tell me. The sky is blue. It's fucking Green in my eyes. Yeah, yeah! Yeah. I'm just not going to trust them. So it's like tell on yourself because it worked on you that you love the commercial. Yeah, I love the commercial fucking Latin X. Yeah, yeah.
Well you're talking about the the Tom Morello responds. Yes, I am going to put it up. I'm going to turn it up on the big screen that while I was talking about just regular left is because they were just kind of doing some ironic Detachment with it where they were kind of saying like, oh yeah, wow so bad just found out today the cia's bad and like you're like no I think it's good I'm reading through that shit because I used to do that shit to lie. I think I'm right lighten up.
Up the copia. Exactly. Exactly. And so the, this is the Tom, Morello response, which Kill Your Heroes. Everybody. Kill your fucking Heroes. That's all I'm gonna say. I used to. I grew up a fucking Rage Against the Machine stand and Tom Morello says silly me. I thought the CIA was evil because of the 70 years of war crimes assassinating, heads of state torture and crushing people's movements around the
globe. And it turns out that the real problem was awoke pamphlet and it's like he's not out of wrong about That any of that stuff at the front, he's not wrong about that but he's fine with it now. Well, the problem is I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no I think you have a better thought than I do at this point. Yeah, well he's totally misreading with Tracy said, Tracy's not saying that, the pamphlet is the worst thing they ever did.
He's saying the pamphlet is the aesthetic Shield, the rhetorical signifier that they use to now legitimize the crimes and the corruption of the deep. State like and that's what they always do. These people refuse to understand that the politics, I mean, Tom Morello, he's always been a fucking a total retard. But, you know, and I could get into like, why Anarchist seem to always just fall on the side of
lives. Lisa goes on, but Tom Morello, you know, he doesn't want to reconcile with the fact that his politics or maybe not. Radical or threatening to the state. Yeah, you know and that's just basically what it is. Michael. Tracy isn't saying that the commercial is like, an evil act. He's just saying it's branding for the evil acts and it was created by leftist who are now functionally indistinguishable from that, which they oppose. Yeah. And he, he puts Tom Morello's, he thinks Tracy.
He's trying to put him in the the like, react the Republican, bro. Box be like, oh this guy just hates woke shit and it's like he's definitely more nuanced than that, you know. And totally. Yeah, it's like, but they're not. So that's the thing, like they're not more nuanced than that. So they took them and the people who follow Tom Morello and and like it's funny when you look at Tom Morello's mentions and like, I don't know.
It's gonna be fucked up the way I say it, but like, I'll see you like, he'll be like Donald Trump babbling baby dick below. Let's bring people tweet about Jim Carrey a shitty Jim. Are you painting of like Donald Trump? And then you'll see, like, in the mentions everyone with all these wave emojis, like resist emojis are like Tom, the best Bridge, gives machines, kill fascist, and then you'll see like a bunch of right-wing accounts. When you click show more replies, it'll be like faggot
faggot faggot societal. It's like, well, and I'm reading that verbatim, sorry, I said, yeah, it is He's probably one thing I've been thinking about a lot lately. I think we talked about this on our last episode with gay stepdad because class lot of people don't know that Ben and I have like a pretty Sharp. Diversion in our politics after like the first few agreements because I think a lot of like the post left kind of like the people that got label hit with this label or whatever.
There's like one faction of it that is probably could be described as like, left communist Ortho Marxist and then the other half is like almost like a, Paleo conservative, social democracy, kind of thing. And I've noticed this more and more as it goes on because like you make these new friends based on dislike shared critique of this thing but I've noticed with a lot of these like paleo con like the good old boys. As I love their show, everything.
But a lot of their politics is predicated on this basically false notion that Economic Development. Can be meaningfully, rewinded somehow that you can kind of bring back this older, more stable version of American democracy. Do you mean like a more of a blue-collar centered kind of thing like, or like kinda, like, localism? And yeah, and And why doesn't
that work? Because after because once the economy develops a certain way, think about certain developments the feminization of the workforce, women joining the workforce, the concentration of capital and fewer Pockets, the hardening of the Bourgeois State.
You just it's there's there's never been a time in meaningful, like meaningfully in history where you could organize and like rewind that That back you know it always is kind of just and a lot of people reject what I'm saying right now. But this is basically like my main disagreement with that and why I think that the main like I am I really? And I don't think like a revolution it's going to happen in my lifetime or anything. But that is still the thing.
That has to be like, I think. The endpoint in a lot of ways, I don't think there could be at this point, in our stage of capital development. A lot of redistribute of policy, one through sort of Bourgeois electoral politics Yeah, and I think it's, I think in a lot of ways it's very idealistic almost as idealistic as the shit. The leftists a to think that it could be a gay largely agree with that. I think, I think it's kind of a conflating.
It's fine to have a dream of a Pastime and be like, oh, that'd be better versus saying like this is actually feasible to to put it this back in the Pandora's box kind of thing, right? Yeah. We need things evolve. Yeah, I don't even know how I got on this point, really know. If you were saying it was what you were trying to reference your podcast episode, gay stepdad. And we were talking Tom Morello and oh, right? Yes. Because we talked about anarchism, yes.
All right. So this is like, You know at times of like historical political economic upheaval, there's usually these sorts of new Tendencies towards idealism. You know, if you just do this this this and this thing. Yeah, things will get better. But it just doesn't really work
like that. The problem with anarchists, Is there whole fucking thing is idealism and and utopianism like anarchists, don't really even acknowledge political economy and if you read like how like there's this great click like Bill Maher. Total shit live in a piece of shit but sometimes very good at calling bullshit you know, Tony and he interviewed, he interviewed. Morello a couple of years ago and Tom Morello is like anarchism, we're gonna build communes, we don't need a
government. We don't need to stay, we don't need centralized power. And then Bill Maher was just like, then why the fuck do you keep voting? Like if you believe what and what Bill Maher is basically trying to say is like, fuck you, you piece I see you with you're doing. You're the same as me but you wear like different fucking hat, you know. Do the same. In politics as I do. Yeah. So so Tom Morello is an anarchist and anarchists from the very beginning of Marxist.
Theory have had diverged, a major major diversion points. Like the founding father of what we now call left anarchism is bakunin and he had really no theories about the development of the working class, which had two, which is and To be a byproduct of the development of capitalism itself. His whole thing was you just build a team of allies and what did he called them? Not allies.
But like, but basically it was like an ideological Revolution one by people who were like who like share your belief system. But with that when you think it's just a matter of belief, then your politics Has become very chaotic and incoherent. So, like, say what I know about RPM, for instance is like marks, even even says, like in the manifesto, commies should not be
leftist. You know, they shouldn't be too far left, especially at times when the working class is disenfranchised and is in organized at times when the working class is radicalized and is organized. Then the Communists are, like, whatever they're supposed to come together with the other leftist. And just like, take up arms and start killing the states are
killing the bourgeoisie. Yeah, but otherwise, you're supposed to be like, like, I try to Apollo approach politics in a measured and a kind of balanced way. Perceive what's right in front of me. But people like Tom Morello, they have this thing of like anarchists are always the ones like the Weather Underground in the 60s. They end up.
Committing acts of Terror playing Fascinations or they're in such a Perpetual state of emotional sort of disrepair that they get really freaked out by certain like political development. A lot. Donald Trump and start going the other way and just slide right back into Bourgeois politics. Yeah so like honestly like this is why I fucking like all leftists now are basically Lee anarchists or like Fabian anarchists and the baby, like just Google. Fabian's are like linked to it.
That's what DSA is. It's like it's like they get it's like this very Bourgeois form of like social control. One through like minut Progressive policy but class struggle has to be. It has to be one. Be like a natural kind of Progression of History. Yeah, but it also has to be like a calm, and rational response to political changes and how to understand political economy in a way, that is actually beneficial to the points in history where there is some sort of like radical energy.
Yeah. But what happened? What happened with Tom Morello and I'm kind of rambling here. I'm sorry, I apologize about that. Come on, but like Tom Morello is an anarchist He has no fucking way to understand what's happening in our politics because he doesn't have that like, rooted understanding of political economy and he is just like, really kind of embraced, his Soldier, embraced his role as like a foot soldier for the Bourgeois State and American imperialism.
And that's why he's so particularly current. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exact. And he was like, he was kind of like a, like, a stem kid growing up too. Wasn't he like doesn't he like a big like Harvard guy like kind of Like you said, yeah. It was like a Harvard sociologist, kind of kind of, dude. Yeah. And he, he's one of those guys that always reps that to, or People wrap it for him be like, oh, you're criticizing Tom. Did you know that?
He's actually got like a PhD in his and I was, like, big red flag for me. I know. And then he's like, did you know nerds could play guitar and watch? I can do the leverage, all that shit. I couldn't see through it. A lot of times and he's not my friend. Tom Morello came to one of his shows in like 2008 and was standing in the audience and he Tom, relishes, hated everything that they was hearing so so much. I guess like he was standing in the audience like, this the
whole time. Yeah. And like, to of the band, like a lot of noise man's used like super fascist Aesthetics, you know? Right. So he was just like in raged and about like he was like what the fuck? Not even raging Against the Machine or whatever. But, ya know like, I like to rage when I was a kid, I almost saw them with Wu-Tang Clan, fuck in 1997, but the show got cancelled. I was like ten years old to. My dad was going to take me. Yeah, face, dad nice.
Yeah, I know he was my dad. Took me to a lot of shows when I was a kid. But I I got like into like men. It'll like black metal and noise and stuff pretty early, but I still pop on rage once in a while when I'm working out there. Good at like slogan, Eerie kind of, because they kind of sound like Public Enemy, but they're just like plane with instruments. So the Deep State heard that conversation, then talk to zoom headquarters. I'm in Silicon Valley.
I thought it was an easy clip. I got to be more secure maybe operate from a VPN. That's why our Zoom meeting just collapse there. Can't believe it. Yeah, man, they're trying to recruit me. That's why. That's what it is. I would be such an effective intelligence asset like, because like I feel like the best intelligence assets are the ones. Who can identify, I'd like intelligence assets. Very well waiting for like William esper Rose. So the CIA is listening.
I am very amenable to taking the siop route towards success. I must today you heard how much, how much, how much would it cost for you? Seriously, I've always wondered that to be an intelligence. Outside. Yeah, to do, run aside, basically be a huge Aid in a psyop. What would it cost them like so conflicted about this? Because it's like not even about the money so much. Is it just be like, fascinating to see how it works from the inside, you know. Yeah. Hunter as Thompson kind of,
yeah. Just yeah, yeah, yeah, you're my name in history books as a legend. And I might be amenable to it like because all these kinds that we're talking about, Philip K, dick, William esper Rose. Yes. There's whispered rumors about their connections to the CIA but that's not the main thing that remembered for the remembered as being great artist. So if I can like have like a hundred years from now. People remember like oh Adam Lair. That guy was a fucking genius. Did you hear?
He might be an intelligence asset. I could live with that. You know I'll be worth it right damn. Yeah. Damn for me it's a strict money amount. As nothing like you could smear me. Like I'm trying to find that money and malware. It's like like they're like yeah. And this guy the worst. Yeah. You know like a couple weeks ago like oh my God I feel so sorry I opted right now like I'm worried that my own shows acai up like especially like like because every like I don't know.
I feel like we're at this point like just this super liquid digital landscape like everything is fake and that's why I like I I like people to remember, like I'm not saying, like twittersphere it's not unimportant like it's where ideology is produced and sort of influenced and all this stuff but at the end of the day you have to remember to have a real fucking life to like because we're all like we're all terminally online that a certain point, but there is like
terminally terminally online and I'm sure we could like point to some people who suffer from That syndrome because at the end of the day, like that's why I don't care that people talk shit about me so much. It's like, I have a nice life, you know, I got a nice wife, a dog, like the fuck, do I care? You know, but if you're like totally jacked into the internet, becoming a sigh up, living the siop in your Dan,
like material reality itself. So, to just bury itself into your fucking screen along with everything else. Yeah. Yeah, that definitely. And so, yeah, just I mean, if you want to just get some plugs in before we wrap up, it's a really good conversation. I'll just plug it, listen to the lattice Pacific if you're going to listen to one episode of system is system. Listen to one with a step that if you like this show, you know,
gay step that. So it's a good intro anyways and yeah, yeah, what's good about that is we started to kind of address like a logical conflict Within the post left itself because I think it's something that has probably been there. Since the beginning of this thing got hit with but has some mostly been left undiscussed so I think that's kind of helpful. Yeah, definitely so Safety propaganda sub stack, right? Got that going. You're working on some, some
other stuff. Yeah, I know you got, you got some other stuff going on. Yeah and yeah, you're welcome on the show anytime man. Any time you got some hot takes just you know or as we resume call away. Yeah absolutely guys. This was a lot of fun. As always Nanda. Let's stay in touch. Absolutely right on Adam. I appreciate you wear. At rare candy, pod one. What's your Twitter by the way? What are you operating from madam? Just a safety propaganda 11i regular.
That's my regular Twitter. Got a cute new. Yeah, I think I texted but I was you were one of those accounts that I only bookmark tweets when I'm like oh I want to check out that movie later that album or whatever. And like I feel like 60% of them were just your old tweets and no you can't not like fuck. There's so does gold mines in there. Yeah so keep tweeting that stuff recommendations from the new baby propaganda. I will. Yeah. So I I'm at Glen Rock me. He's at crypto.
Sigh. Thanks everybody. Who's been listening. Subscribe on YouTube, YouTube. Still the best way to watch it. I know not everybody could do that, but the audio suffice as well. And this is rare candy, right? On Adam. All right, guys, later, guys. All right, have a good night.