Yeah, from the five to the six, we be in the mix with that rare candy paint job on the web. I need food for the kids, money for the rent. Fuck a lockdown baby. I can't do that shit and I'll never vote 'cause I'm fucking broke and either way I know the police ain't gonna leave me alone on a plane by the physical and rock me. Crypto told me I should bring the Glock with me, so I packed up my piece and I'm sliding slide 'cause we might.
Get caught up in a riot. Middle finger Trump, middle finger Biden fucker left fucker right as you riding or you'll let us see it. Those rocking, you know politics baby. We just talking from the birds to the bricks. We be in the mix with that rare candy paint job on the web. Who you with? Welcome back to the game of Fiction Lab. We are continuing a series from last season. This is the Bradyson Ellis catalog deep dive. He doesn't have that many books, so it's not that hard to do.
In fact, I think we're like halfway done already, which is kind of crazy. So far we've already we've covered the shards less than 0 and rules of attraction on here. So we're we're already almost there because now we're covering American Psycho. I have the author of Texas T, which is he's he's teasing it with a really cool cover on social media right now, but it's Kelby Lowsack. How you doing? Was good what it do yeah Texas
TI think dropping November 5th. Yeah, and it's not Texas low T, it's Texas high T. That's it. Yeah, just not to confuse anybody here because people might think T levels. No, it is. It is spelled TEA the the title. What explain the title to me? So it's got kind of a double meaning. This is my most soap operatic epic, sprawling, but not, I mean, for me epic. A lot of people are like, damn, this is like 500 pages condensed into 100.
So this one's going to be like 1000 pages condensed into 300 or 400. I was. Going to guess you were writing a 300 pager. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Not a God's fair, no better brick not yet. But but it's a yeah, it's a big odyssey. So like tea, you know, as all of our gay friends like to call drama, but Texas tea is slang for purple drink. It's like the new, a newer slang for for drank that I I think it's genius. And so a lot of the book revolves around to walk hard
smuggling. So this kind of kind of the double meaning there. Well, that's great. I mean, I, I, I don't know what your release plan is for it, but I know you got to be close to done with it, right? Yeah, it's so. It's like I'm very schizophrenic in the way that I write. There's 69 chapters, all of which have some level of writing in them, and I know the story and everything actually outlined this one and I just keep chipping away at different chapters until the whole thing
ends up done. Probably. Probably halfway through it. OK, OK, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, guys, be on the be on the lookout for that. And while you're at it, if you're like, wow, I really want to read that. You can read a lot of Kelby's other work. He has you reissued Letting out the Devils with a new cover on it and stuff. You have God is wearing black. You have mercy. I know you have more than that, but those are, I know the three,
the three. I I see people posting the most and and reading a lot and I've had the chance to read letting out the devils and God is wearing black. Both of those are great. I've yet to meet mercy, but that'll be that'll be really cool. And also you could listen to me read chicken and waffles, which a lot of people really liked and I didn't really enjoyed. So. I loved that that shit went so hard. It's. Fun. It was really fun, man.
That one is is is really special because it was the start of a project and like I said, that's free. You guys can that's on the rare candy YouTube channel. You guys can just go check that out. So if you guys are still like, what am I just got to pick up some book or something? OK, yes, the answer is yes to that. But if you're being a little prick about it, just go ahead and listen to that first and then you'll you'll get to know the, the author I'm talking to
right now. So we're, we've like I said, we've covered Breti Sanella's novels since the start of this program. And I was always, I'm not going to lie, I was dreading this one. The reason I'm dreading it is because there's an overexposure of American Psycho stuff that's happened since I got on the Internet. Everything is American Psycho. Everything's Patrick Bateman, there's gifts everywhere, everyone thinks they're him, everybody, just everything I saw, I was kind of like, and I
love the movie. I've been watching the movie because I had HBO as a kid, and I was like on that as a kid. And I remember watching it when I was 9 and not getting any of the irony but thinking it was awesome. And you're just like that stick. He kills girls with chainsaws. That's fucking tight. It's it's hilarious that he's up
there like as a meme. He's up there with basically the the Ryan Gosling dudes, you know, the Blade Runner and drive and you know the the whole group of tortured in cells or or whatever it is that the right wing loves to pretend this is Oh so me. And it's hilarious because Patrick Bateman's a fucking dork. It's like like drive, like the dude in drive. He's he's a good dude. Yeah. Oh, you know, Blade on in 2049. He's a good dude, Batman. He's he might be a good dude. Patrick Bateman.
What a loser. Yeah, I mean, he is the ultimate now. I think he is a good thing for online culture because it's a LARP ultimately. Like so I, I think he is the perfect guy for the Internet because the Internet, especially when you like, for anyone who doesn't know, for anyone who's just like typing in American Psycho, I want to listen to something about American Psycho.
And you're not maybe from this sphere, but there's a lot of people who are anonymous on the Internet and therefore able to cultivate a new personality, kind of wipe the do a factory reset on their past and kind of just give their thoughts with like an aesthetic, which is typically, like you said, Ryan Gosling beat up from Blade Runner, the beat up look about the drive character. And then and then like Patrick Bateman, it would be all these vaporwave edits.
Very especially because the music is very 80s, very, very 80s synth pop driven pomp, I should say in the in the 80s. So there's constant, there's constant, you know, aesthetic similarities that people try to achieve with Patrick Bateman. But you know, spoiler alert, he is living out a sociopathic fantasy in his head. And the only thing lamer than being a sociopath that really can't feel any pain or anything or anything is pretending that that's you, you know?
Pretending that that's. You and I mean, I arguably, I guess you'd prefer guys not to kill a bunch of people, but like it is ultra embarrassing to just be like, actually what I am. What I am is actually I, I'm I'm just showing my sentience as the narrator, but I'm just as vapid as any of these people that I'm making fun of that I can't listen to that. I'm thinking about, you know, doing Ted Bundy stuff too while I'm listening to these people. I'm the exact same way,
unfortunately. Like that's that's what you're saying. He's the instead of the leftist ordering DoorDash and tweeting free Palestine, he's the anonymous rhyoid ordering DoorDash and daydreaming that he kills the Doordasher who shows. Right, right. It's an Indian guy, which again, they are making a new American cycle and there's so many things you can do with that. Like they're making a new one. I think it's Luca Guadagino,
which I am excited for. I think that's, I think it's do I just hope to God it's not in the 80s? I'm so tired of 80s flashback movies and. I set it in the 2000s. Set it now do it with Brian Johnson type people do it with like like not a not like a Brian Johnson type, but like a person who works engineer coding something fake, right? Something like where it's like I work here, but I don't do anything, you know, maybe my dad
owns a company or something. But you the the health scenes can be like red light therapy mask and all of these things. And the beauty of this book is as repellent as you think Patrick Bateman is and how like lame he is during his moments, during his delusions, you're kind of like fucking with him a little bit. You're kind of like, oh. Yeah, what? That guy.
So like for me, for somebody who does a lot, who likes a lot of that esoteric health stuff but also finds the people annoying, that's a good think way to center this around. I hope that's what they're doing. I think it's Austin Butler, if I'm not mistaken, that's playing Bateman. But I'm hoping it's not just 80s suits, suits and skyscrapers. I really hope it's not that. Yeah, same. That's a really great casting
choice too. I forgot who they were first teasing, but it was was It was a lordy I thought. It was Jacob, O Lordy at first. Those are the only two guys that are like, not like gay looking that are like masculine, you know, So like you really, it's an easy casting call. That would have been, Yeah, I think it was either. I remember us talking about it. I don't remember if it was me or if it was my wife who was like Jacob the Lord. He should play the Patrick Bateman.
Yeah, Christian Bale, like now, he's such a superstar that you think, wait, why would somebody who nobody remembers and is so passable, why would you get Christian Bale to play that dude? But I rewatched it again. I got a chance to sneak it in again. I was like, man, this, this was fucking great. It's so good. I mean, you think about everybody. It's like Reese Witherspoon. It's right before Legally Blonde, when she became a
massive superstar. Jared Letos, like Requiem for a Dream. He's not really doing anything that's like crazy, crazy big, but like he's respected in the community and stuff. You have, I forget the actor that plays Carruthers. He's in like Beetlejuice and all these other things. And it's like, it's a big cast, but it's like a big cast before they all became super big. And it's directed by Mary Heron. It is fantastic and it does a
good job. It does about as good of a job as you can while still maintaining an R rating. Because as we're gonna talk in the book, there is some wild shit that happened to this book that you cannot put in a movie. Not unless you're like Japanese, right? Yeah, it couldn't. It wouldn't pass Hollywood. Yeah, exactly. Because then it would just become pornography. It was Japanese. Like they'd be like, wait, this is this is hot. They're like, I don't irony. This is hot.
Yeah. Yeah. It would just be squid instead of rats. Yeah. Interesting. We're going to get you right back to the episode, but I just wanted to let you guys know of a few other things we offer at Rare Candy Industries. We have a sub stack with free and paid subscription options. Free subscribers get access to all written content. That includes Bob's Red Pill. That's the best thing going on the Internet right now. Trust me. Paid subscribers Get full access
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Check it out. There's got to be something for you. And lastly, check us out on social media. On Instagram, we're Rare Candy Pod, but on Twitter we're at Rare Candy Pod one. All right, enough of that. Let's get you back into the episode. Yeah, this book is interesting. I've listen. You know, Bradyson also has a great podcast, and he's talked about this a few times because it's a book he often gets questions about because when you read it, you're just like, damn, dude.
Like I didn't know you had this in you. But The thing is, is you kind of do know that he has it in him and all his other books. He kind of eludes this thing. In less than 0, there's a very detached explanation of a young girl getting tortured and raped and stuff, which again, he doesn't. He goes into far more detail in this novel because he he gives you so methodical, Patrick Bateman so methodical and detail oriented. Whereas in less than 0 it's it's the lack of details that get so
chilling sometimes. Where, yeah, I mean. I'm sorry, Less than 0 is a much more disturbing book, I think. I think American cyclists hilarious and really like the the descriptions, the long paragraphs describing exactly how like the intestines are laid out on the table and the the tits, the color of the tits that have been chopped off and all this and that. Like those are really beautifully written sentences. Well, and you, you, he had his editor on one time. Brett had his editor on one
time. I forget what the guy's name is, but he's a really good interview. And he was basically just like, dude, when I got this manuscript, I'm like, what, what am I supposed to do? You know, like, like what are like? Well, I don't because he's like, I don't want to like there's certain things that I think maybe in a traditional sense don't work, but he's like, but it's a psycho.
So like I kind of have to keep in some things that don't work because there are certain times where he just loses his thought and just starts going back to like that Robert Oneika picture is is hanging wrong or something. And then like, it's in the middle of a sentence where he's talking about like fucking a decapitated head, like and and and like I'm putting a rat in a tube up a girl's pussy.
It, it worked. And there's there's such run on sentences too, like from the jump, the opening bar, like the whole Broken River crew. We're always like, we're big on competing with each other's opening bars. The opening bar of American Psycho is like 100 words. It goes on and on and on before the first period in the book. I know, that's so funny. Yeah, the opening 1 is yeah,
abandoned. All hope ye who enter here is scrawled in blood red lettering on the side of the Chemical Bank near the corner of 11th and 1st and is in and is in print large enough to be seen from the back seat of the of the cab as it lurches forward in traffic, leaving Wall Street and Justice Timothy Price notices the words. A bus pulls up. There's like no commas in this or anything. Yeah, it's it's just. And then there's like a whole
nother part of that sentence. But it's funny because the subject like hit the way he speaks never changes in this. It never changes the inflections, the tone don't doesn't really change. It's the subject matter that does at the beginning. Patrick Bateman's like woke for the first 3 chapters. Like he's just like, you know, cool with the anti-Semitic remarks he's talking about. He does that speech at dinner with the art, with the loser art couple. And he's like, oh, this and
that. And he he's really worried about preserving this, this optics, this, this appearance of a like a progressive finance guy, which doesn't even work. You know, like, it's like, say you're trying to like achieve this thing that doesn't even work. And Brettyson Ellis talked about dating a guy like it when he moved to New York, which I I would guess after college, after Bennington, he moved to New York and he was working on this book. And it took him a long time because he's always been
fascinated by serial killers. Growing up in LA in the early 70s post Manson, you're always going to be obsessed with that kind of stuff. But he found a way to be like when he was, he was dating this finance bro guy who at the time he's like, they're gay guys and they're talking to like straight men who are worried about like their lapels and like, you know, face creams and all this stuff. And he's like, dude, I'd like the gay guys I hang out with aren't this gay.
And what's they contrast it because they're all super homophobic. Like they're all like anytime anything remotely gay happens, they're just dropping F bombs in there And, and, and, and all of that. But these guys are straight up worried about fat. Like every conversation they have when they meet up is about whether you're allowed to wear suspenders with this or during what time of year that it's so funny.
Those it's always like the world of straight guys is always the inverse when it comes to homophobia of what you would think. Like you got the Super gay put together aesthetics obsessed homophobes and then you have like dudes who are just in the trenches like picking their nose and like, you know, farting, working at like literally digging ditches and shit. And they're always like, yeah, hey, bend over, sexy like. Yeah, why are you wearing those jeans? Why are you wearing those jeans,
man? Those don't. Oh, come on, Give me something to look at. Like they'll be saying shit like that. Yeah. It's funny. I know. That's so funny. And like, and hovering around all that, you getting in, like all the time. I love that Brady Sanellas is like homosexuality is all throughout this book, too. Like the AIDS, all of the AIDS stuff that's in there where a bunch of guys are worried about it. But like, at the same time, they're all going. We're not getting that shit, dude.
We're straight. Like we're not getting AIDS. We're not getting AIDS. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. And it's but this is during written during a time when like you, if you sat on a toilet seat after somebody like you, you that people thought you were going to get AIDS and. My mom was terrified of that
when we were kids. In San Francisco, so like my grandparents, they've lived out here in California, but they would like would go to San Francisco to like eat Chinese food because it wasn't everywhere at that time. Like not the good stuff. So they would take like a 45 minute ride in San Francisco and eat Chinese food. Once AIDS hit, they're like, Nah, we're not going to San Francisco anymore. I was like, wait. And like my mom's like, were you guys going to have gay sex out
there? They're like, it's in the air. And which you know, again, is another Fauci lie, by the way, is like the Fauci pushed a lot of that stuff on people and told people that that's how you could get it. And that caused a lot more more division amongst people than really was needed. Oh, no way, Fauci dividing the country over some made-up airport he. Stopped there. It never happened again. But he he stopped there. Yeah, he was. He's Yeah, he's long gone. Nobody's heard of him since.
But the, the, the anyways. The. What's funny about it, though, is the subject matter. Gradually he lets you in and like, finally he just drops on you. It's like, yeah, and I killed a girl the other day or something. And you're just like, oh, and obviously, you know, most people coming to this book have seen the movie before. So, you know, there's not much of a big reveal in here at all that he's anything. And it's not a mystery. This book is not a mystery.
Yes, there's a detective. Does he matter? Absolutely not. But there is a detective who kind of like loves the finance guy world and stuff. And basically, you know, it's Patrick Bateman just violently murdering women for an entire book. And and then through the book is written I think in three acts of
like insanity. And each act is separated by like a three page chapter with like 0 paragraph breaks about a very normie 80s band that he pretends to be extremely, you know, war like this, like esoteric, like talking about stuff. And the music chapters are so funny because I think it was in the Huey Lewis in the news chapter where he's like this song, which was not written by the group. It was written by some guy named Hank Williams. Never heard of him.
Like, you know, just he's like know so much about music, but like only that band. There's just no concept of like Hank Williams or like these people who are all time greats. But that I love the insanity. Like the the divisions of like the insanity chapters just coupled with like a absolute. Also that's another reason why a lot of right wing Anon guys love that. Because he's a sperk. Yeah, yeah, just a a total schizoid. He I, I like how you say it's not a mystery because it's just
you're just along for the ride. And even the reveal at the end of like, wait, was this all in his head? Isn't much of A you don't really give a shit. Like it's not the point of the book at all, because the whole book feels almost meta in a way. And that it's like the fantasy of somebody who would have all these fantasies. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're in the boardroom just dreaming about raping and murdering and just bored out of your mind. And this book is like, yeah,
let's follow that guy. Let's go into the inner psyche of that guy. But it's written by somebody who is kind of going through that same thing. Like you, you know, Bret Easton Ellis was just like, yeah, total alienation. Like, you know, material obsession loner writing this shit. And I also picture like, you know, I, you ever do this, like, you know, with your wife or something, like you leave a place where like you only knew like one or two people, but it
was a group. And then you just like, kind of like, maybe if it wasn't bad, be like those people. Oh my gosh. And you kind of like, I wish I could have just fucking fuck that guy. If I beat that dude's eye, Like you just start talking about all the dumb shit. That guy's probably a fucking loser rapist or something. You know, like you said, you
might not even be right. But like, it feels like this book is coming from like 2 gay guys leaving a party and just laughing about everybody there, you know? And then like basically saying, well, this is a like that one guy. Like what if this one guy was just an absolute schizo? And honestly, like when I was reading it, I was like, what if they all are, What if everyone in this book is a schizo thinking like this and we've
only centered on one of them. Like what if, what if McDermott, Price and Van Patten are all just like thinking the exact same thing? Like in a, in a way, like if, if this is just like you think this gives you some sort of individuality as a, as a Wall Street pedal to the metal finance guy, then you realize, no, actually this is what they do. You know, like they are kind of, I mean, you've asked the right person.
Wall Street people are psycho, you know, like, so yeah, you know, to a degree you kind of have to be. I think it is saying that too. Like, I think that is the implication because everybody is always getting people's names wrong. And so many interpretations of that are that, well, you know, Patrick Bateman is an unreliable narrator. No, everybody in the book is. Yeah, the way he writes that is so funny.
It'll always be like, I don't forget the names, but again, forget it. You're not supposed to remember their names because none of these people matter. They are non entities. NP. Patrick Bateman is you're in like a RPG covered in blood and it's NPCS everywhere. Basically. It's like Grand Theft Auto. And there are chapters like where he's just like driving around and playing Grand Theft Auto. It's actually awesome.
But he's like. There is like the the 1 chapter that goes to third person where it's just mass shoot. He just goes on a shooting spree and you know, the SWAT comes in and shit, I. Know it's so funny and then and then it's just like the next one. It's like, you know, I'm just at Barney's or something the next chapter. And it's like nothing after that. Nothing.
But yeah, like the the the reason this book is so funny too is just because each chapter, the minute you think you're, you've got some kind of read on it, like you're like, oh, what he's really saying is this and this he completely denies it. So there's a lot of people that can read this book and they'll go, well, this is like what capitalism puts into people. You are a finance bro and these people with finance Bros are
sadistic. But one guy becomes sentient and decides to kill all these people and they're evil. He's killing bad people. And then you're like, then one child killing a child at the zoo is a chapter title and he just kills the kid. And so you're not like, OK, your theories in the trash because these people like a true psycho is incoherent. Like it doesn't make sense. So it's what I like about it. Yeah, I mean, commentary on anything. I would, I would buy that.
It's, you know, saying a lot about alienation and loneliness and shit capitalism. I I mean, whatever it's saying about capitalism is just that Breti Stinelis is a gay man who is really brand obsessed and that's just, you're going to see that in all. Capitalism. So he's not going to fucking write the like Communist Manifesto psycho book. Like, it's just not. That's just not the book he's going to write. Yeah, the the capitalist statement is yeah, capitalism,
great. Yeah, Oh, gosh. I mean, it's, it's exactly and, and it's just like like a lot of times what he does, like he writes, it's very like hyper present novels, hyper prescient novels. Like this is like, he's not necessarily saying this is what happens when the, you know, this is this big idea. It's usually like, look, this is what I'm seeing right now. He's a satirist. So he's like, you guys might not know what's going on in the financial district.
You guys might not know what's happening at a college where all these kids are in love with each other and breaking up with each other and breaking each other's hearts and over fake overdosing and stuff. Like you might not know about that. You might not know what happens at rich kid LA high schools in 1982. I do. Let's have some fun and I'll
tell you about them. It's kind of, it's almost like a profile, like a journalistic profile that he does mixed with stand up comedy for American Psycho. And it's just, it's, it's hilarious. I really love how they intersect with the rest of his novels too.
A lot of people, because this one is so big and so interpreted in all kinds of different ways and everybody thinks they know, like it gets new life through different interpretations versus people actually reading it, that it seems separate from the rest of his work. But it is extremely interesting the way it intersects with the rest of his work. There's a universe, I mean Sean Bate, he is his brother is Sean Bateman from the Rules of Attraction, who's a great
character. In rules of Attraction, Rock'n'roll is used again. It's like the last line of the book and the movie. I think the the Sean Bateman Rock'n'roll. There's a a chat and Sean Bateman talks about again, Sean, you can read the Rules of Attraction and kind of know that Patrick Bateman is lying about all the stuff that he's doing because Sean Bateman talks about his brother as this like non entity.
He's like, oh, I met my bro. I think it's when their daddy's dying and rules of attraction, they meet him at the at the office and like, he's just like Patrick, just like a smug prick, like kind of like full of himself. It's not anything like that, but it's funny because Patrick Bateman tries to give himself his own back story, his own serial killer origin story in in American Psycho.
So in the book, he'll be like, yeah, and in college they found a girl floating like dismembered and all that stuff. And you're like, you're lying about that. That's what's so funny. It's like you're you're lot like you're confessing the murders. You don't do. You are trying to be this individual guy in a jaw in a, in a kind of a community that thrives on everyone looking the same, sounding the same to where you're not discernible at all.
But he's trying to because he's always referencing these serial killer books that he reads, which that's probably true that this character reads all these serial killer books. He's like, they all have origin stories. And mine was like, I killed and raped a girl in like college and loved it. And ever since then, it's like, no, you probably didn't like, you probably didn't do any of that. No 100% the.
Kentucky Derby girl, he's like when he meets up with the Kentucky Derby girl, he's like, yeah, she was so gone on like pills. He's like, and I was just putting whatever I could find up her, like, you know, at the Kentucky Derby, and she still hangs out with me. She like comes over to my house. Still, it's like. No way. It's it's the type of shit that it's the origin story. You make up with your friends who know that that that's what it is too.
Like you read this book really knowing what it is. It's the best book to spoil because the best way to come to it is knowing that he's full of shit. Because it's kind of like listening to your friend, who you know really well, talk about a bunch of shit that he did not do. In front of other people, too.
Yeah. Where like you're like, should I say something Like you kind of like I kind of want to say something, but also I don't want to be a bad friend, but also this guy's lying out his ass right now. Yeah, it's the best way to read this book going to. And that's what that's what makes it hilarious because you, you, you could read it totally innocent and go, what about this was funny exactly? I think some people do because it got a lot of it got a lot of trouble and people were like,
it's just gore porn. I'm like, well, it kind of is. Don't get me wrong, Like all the gore is essential to it, all of that. But it's like, and it isn't, I think a lot of people just don't like it because it's a guy just killing a bunch of women, which, you know, it is. That is what's being written about. I guess you can you can read certain pages here. And if you're a squeamish and maybe had something crazy happen to you, like where it's like, yeah, maybe I'll put this down
because it he goes into depth. And that's kind of my favorite part about. It, I love it. It's so good. Yeah. It. It's your ears perk up because what it what Brady Sanellas does is he knows he lulls you to sleep sometimes too, in this novel, because he's really doesn't write other books like this. This is a different. This is a different style. He's he's like kind of just emptying thoughts out
constantly. But he know, he knows you don't care about this paragraph right here because why would you? It's him talking about what? The taxi When, when he's talking about the homeless guy who he's like, I can't tell if his coat is Burberry or not, just shit like that and all these like random things with Sony VX47 doesn't have the laser disc reader and he knows you don't care about that.
And so you could like skip that paragraph if you want to, but also, you know, you know that he's got you by the balls and you, you got to read it all 'cause you're. Like I get so hypnotized by that shit. Like I tell this, this is what I hype David on all the time as the proper nouns and like he really influenced my intentional like seeking of just the right perfect word. Like what is people who know about this shit?
What do they call it? What is this piece of architecture like actually called? What is this style? Like I love reading that shit when I know nothing about what it is like the Sony VX whatever. Like OK but I love reading about people who know their shit.
Yeah, you picture a bunch of scattered catalogs around Bradyson Ellis's apartment and plus a bunch of serial killer books and then just personal, personal interactions in the up here, you know, in the in the the thing, like just Sony Cat or like, you know, whatever Sears catalog or something where they're selling stereos, they're like, OK, cool, Patrick's going to have that, you know, and, and, and, and the chapter titles
too. I mean, the chapter titles I think make the book, I think that the the funniest part about the book, like in terms of structure, because I mean, you know, it'll just be like, I don't know why it's so funny. I it's I was trying to think, think of words for this. But like there, there's a part when you don't hear from like Louis Carruthers for a while. For Louis Carruthers is the gay man who's marrying the girl Patrick was fucking.
But Louis Carruthers is constantly talking about like he's the only guy that's going, wow, Patrick, you're so well spoken when he's saying gobbledygook basically at like at at this stuff. And he's like, Patrick, you're so well spoken. And, you know, they have the interaction where Patrick's going to kill him, but then he thinks he's choking him and he, like, kisses his hand and stuff.
But then I love the chapter that just says confronted by faggot like on there, and it's bluish and he throws a tantrum in the store. Yeah, it's so funny. It's it's so many like lists. No, the chapter titles are genius in themselves because you think about somebody sitting in their office writing out a list of things that of everything. There's chapters that are called like Thursday and and then there's like lunch and then it's killing dog, killing, cooking.
Cooking and eating a woman is 1 chapter and then and then the next chapter is bringing an Uzi to the gym where it's like it's a paragraph long and he's like, this isn't the time. You know, he's like going to spray up the like the gym that costs like 5 grand a year. It's going to take a Uzi and spinning around in circles like, I don't know, it's just it's it's hysterical. I mean this he is the top
satirist of our time. You know, I think like guys, you know, you go back to like the Jonathan Swift times of like Gulliver's travels, like he's doing the same thing, like he's doing the same thing. Like I, I know people. I I I think people want to knock it down a peg because it's so highly regarded and it's it becomes a cottage industry to have an anti Bradycinellis take. But I'm sorry man, people just aren't writing books like this and this breaks every rule of a
book. But then it reminds you that there are no rules. Except if you're you like guy who doesn't write good books. There's rules for you. There's not rules for you. Yeah, yeah, no, it's the greats are under I I think great art is objective. Really. More and more I have I have that take. I agree because you're just wrong If you don't like Brett Easton Ellis, if you don't fuck with like another one is Chuck Polonik, who people want, like,
constantly want to be like. Nah, Polonik is overrated. He does that thing that he does what he does that thing that only he can do that everybody else tries to ape. Kind of like how Brett Easton Ellis has a bunch of biters, bunch of biters, but it doesn't work because they're supposed to be following the rules and there's exceptional people. Yeah. Like that's where great art
comes from is the exception. Here's these rules because if you don't do things like this, it's probably going to be trash. Right. Here's this guy who breaks all the rules because he's exceptional. Well, and he wins with the idea like he basically by you're you're obsessed with this Patrick Bateman guy who for like the first five chapters who's just methodically describing his life. He's definitely violent, has
violent thoughts. There's like one of the, one of my favorite parts is like when he first starts really leaking out, like who he is and he's having dinner with Evelyn. For anybody who's coming from the movie, that's the Reese Witherspoon character, his girlfriend who's like, not, you know, she's just like, she keeps floating the idea of marriage to this guy just in some like medieval courtship kind of way. Like, well, we. Gay man's understanding of what
straight relationships. Yeah, but also a very gay man's idea of like, I hang out with women constantly, but I never listen to them and what they're saying. Like that's that's also like a very gay guy thing. Like, I mean, you know, whom among us around straight guys has tuned out of a woman's thing? But like for most gay guys, like she's just talking about bullshit. I'm not listening to that. Like this is bullshitting and she's wearing this stupid thing like, you know, this the the ear.
Like he knows where girls earrings come from. Like they're like pendants, like he like knows where they're from. It's just crazy, crazy. And to hammer home that like you're gayer than a gay guy basically if you're a finance yuppie guy. So yeah, well, there is a part like I was saying where I think it was him and Evelyn are. Let me see. Oh yeah, I don't have it marked, but it was where it's Evelyn.
He's at dinner with Evelyn and he's just like, she's talking and it just immediately cuts off her sentence. And he's just like looking at her and he's like, I wonder if Evelyn would ever get it on with another girl. Probably not. I wonder if she'd get on with another girl if I had her at gunpoint, you know, like, and he's just like, I just like, took a fucking gun out on her. And it's just like, like, I don't know.
A lot of people are scared to admit that they've had like, insane violent thoughts, just something that doesn't deserve a violent reaction. But like you have these, you're like, God, if this guy says one more fucking thing, one more thing and he's not doing anything wrong other than being annoying, You're like one more thing and you just you just think about like hitting him with something. Like I've I've thought about hitting somebody in the head with a cinder block or something.
I'm not going to do it, but I've thought about it and that's what this. But it's like anytime like you're you're really high up, like you're on the 25th floor of a parking garage or something and there's a can sitting on a ledge and you're like, this would be a fucking missile if I just flicked it over the edge onto that dude's head. And it's like, yeah, everybody thinks that. You see a kid riding a bike and you're like, I could just like
kick him in the face. And just like just like Bruce Lee, that kid to the ground and this bike, we go flying down the road and maybe somebody swerves to avoid it and they crash into they crash their car. Everybody. You just think that shit? It's CKY brain, dude. That's how things like CKY start is like you just you think about chaos you can cause with one simple action, you know, like, and, and as a guy, like you always have that in your brain.
Like whether you do it or not, if you have kids, you try to stop your kids from doing that, but you're also like, fuck, I remember when I used to do stuff like that. You know, it's just this like constant cycle of it. And like, but Patrick Bateman takes it to a degree where he's constantly going to the hardware store and like buying stuff from the hardware store, constantly going to the video store and returning videotapes and he's like insane. I don't know if this is true or not.
He like it can't because this is like late 80s when this is happening. His like movie membership cost like $2000 a year at the movie store. Yeah, that's even some some of the shit. I mean, even the gym membership, I'm like. Back then I. And. I think it may be he is just insane. And like he's just like, yeah, it's $2000. And I get to, I mean, is the video store real? I mean, are we really returning videotapes?
Because there is the scene where he goes to the video store and there is the young girl working there and he's like, I want to fuck Jamie Gertz. And the girl's like who's Jamie Gertz? And he's like, which is funny because Jamie Gertz plays what's her name in less than 0. So that's pretty funny. And the the girl. But he's like, yeah, he's like, I want to say that I want to, I
want to fuck. And he's like, you don't know who that is. And, and he's like, he's like buying like anal gaping porn and body double because he likes Brian Depalma's body double because of the drill going through a woman's face. And that's like, what he's like, he said he's rented it like 47 times. It's so funny. Yeah, no, I think these are just childish numbers. It's like I've rented this movie 47 times. Well, it's like Bill Gates,
$2000 a year. Yeah, and, and then he goes, He goes and he's constantly worried about late fees. He goes. But, well, I do have the $2000 membership. I can check out as many as I want. And then he's like, you know, I'm like, all right, like, anyways, back to drilling a hole in a woman's skull. Like, it's. But like the videotapes thing, I think is just like a lack of a social cue where I think he's just like to get out of a conversation or to like think about something other than what
he's really thinking about. He just goes to the videotape thing like, and I obviously he is watching these crazy like anal porn videos with like fisting and stuff and, and, and all of that. But while I remember he has one line where after he kills Paul Owen, who's the Jared Leto character from the movie, after he kills Paul Owen he like uses
his apartment. In the movie, of course, he uses it to like film sex scenes with hookers, but he he's like dissolving the bodies and he's like, he's like sitting there watching like porn while the dissolve it, while the body's dissolving in the in the thing and he's just like watching it and stuff. It's like it's fucking crazy.
It's it's insane. Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, I, I I've it gets and, and he and he UPS the ante every time because you think like you're like, Dang, you don't want to blow your load too early. Like, you know, it gets crazier every time. Like there's one part at the beginning because there's chapters called girls all throughout the book. And like the first chapter with with girls is like got 2 hookers, had a threesome. And you can tell he's like not having that much fun.
He's like happy that he was able to orchestrate it, but it feels like a test run for something. And he's like, yeah, I'm like fucking this girl in the mouth and stuff. And, and she's like, you know, basically like, Oh yeah, this is great. And stuff he's like, yeah, it's whatever. And then like later he like kills a girl and like fucks like the hole in her neck and stuff. He's like, this is great. He's like, now we're talking. Yeah, and then and then up it even one more time with the the
third round of girls. The rats. The rat putting a tube inside of a woman and letting a rat go up there and go crazy and then like later you forget about the rat and he's like, yeah And then the rat came out of her and. And it had like blood all over you're. Like that's, that's the worst part because you do it. It's just like initially you talk about shoving tubes up people. You're like God. And I know that like, people do it. Like there's a lot of people that do that shit, whether with
animals or whatever. They're like just shoving shit up their ass and everything. Like like no, what the fuck? It's so rough and like, you know, just I remember he has his ex-girlfriend too, that I think this is like midway through the book, his like ex-girlfriend who he invites back to the apartment and she's like, oh, I shouldn't have had that glass of wine. She's like, OK, fine. And she lets him know that his painting's upside down, this really nice painting that he
had. And then he just goes nail gun to the back of the head. He's like, I can dare, dude, like how dare you? And the nail gun is wild, man. Like just having a nail gun around, especially because like, you know, there's so many subtleties in this book.
He has a crack in his in like is like a crack in his awning or something like that or a ceiling that he's constantly going down to the the property manager, whatever the apartment building manager saying he has a crack in the ceiling, whatever doesn't get fixed. And he knows the most about food
out of anybody. You know so much about food, yet there's two times like 1. He has all this hardware store stuff, yet he can't fix anything in the apartment, never even tries once to fix that crack in the ceiling. It's not for that. He'd rather just leave it there and complain about it. And then then he's also when he tries to cook and eat one of the women, he's just like, he's told you everything about every dish, what magazine, what Zagat has it
rated at all of these things. And he's like, I don't know how to cook. This sucks. Yes. Yeah. Again, that's like he's every he's every right wing Anon account who are just so I know everything OK, show your face like who are you? What do you do? Wicked Docks and they're like 300 lbs and like, pimply and you're like, that's why you were private.
Yeah. They're like 20 years old and they're fucking spurgs and they have no, they're, you know, fatherless in cells who have no idea what they're talking about. They don't do shit. It's predicting that and maybe like maybe nothing ever does happen. Like maybe this is just what the what the new guy is like. Like it's just a new, it's the same type of guy existing in a
different world and stuff. And it'd be, it would be funny if they like incorporated that into the new films, like an anonymous profile where he like threatens women online. That'd be funny. Like where? Yeah, where like that's, that's like that's the freedom you have with this character. You can do whatever you want with. Him Austin Butler is howling mutant. Yeah. You'd have you'd have to be something else than that for it to really work, because Howling Mutant is the a treasure he's.
Funny and he's and he's affable and funny like he's just not like a true host scarer like like Patrick Bateman. So yeah, but it just exact. But like one of those people where like he's just like posting like random gore, like surgical gore pictures to like women that he knows, you know, but from like an anonymous account, like you can do a lot of stuff like that and like kind of kind of modernize it. Because I, I love, I love that he has zero skills.
I mean, his job, his job is really funny too, because you get a glimpse of like his job not being real at all. Like he doesn't have to go into the office ever. He could just live. He owns the company. It's his dad died and he has the company. Sean has no interest in running this place. Just just give me my cut of it. But it's that Pearce and Pearce
firm or whatever. But at the beginning, I think the beginning of the movie and the book, they ask like Patrick, you can get away from the office anytime you want, like why do you go to this place? You actually own it. And he's like, I want to fit in and he and he says that and it's really funny line the way he delivers it, like with such
severity. But then throughout the book, you see him like pretending like, like he has a like a hard day at work, but there's no nobody, none of these people are ever doing any work. There's no, no numbers being entered in. Nothing's happening. It's just lunch. It's just literally lunch and drinks the entire time. But, you know, he just kind of like, kind of like the job is like he, he has a secretary, like for what? To make reservations for you.
Like the job is completely fake. It's so funny. I love that part in the movie where Chloe Savini finds like goes through his Ledger or whatever and it's it's like super blank besides just. Nothing happening, Yeah. There's nothing going on. And then a whole bunch of like severed, you know, mutilated women and. And it's drawn like a 7th grader too, like in like 7th grade, like your class where it's like obviously like you're a
concerned parent. You're like, I don't know, maybe my kid shouldn't be drawn stuff like this. But you're kind of like, this is like a loser, kind of like a, for a guy Patrick Bateman's age. It's like kind of lame, you know? But if it was like a little kid, you'd be like, oh, we got to talk to. We gotta talk to this kid. Like, you can't be doing stuff like that. But like, this is a 26 year old guy, like drawing shit like this. Who cared? Yeah, I guess it's just so
funny. And yeah, like, there's Jean who is the secretary who's played by Chloe Sevenier in the movie. And she is always referred to as Jean who is in love with me, My secretary Jean, who is in love with me constantly. And he's like, I probably will end up marrying hard body is used constantly a very old school term and and just the the clubs they go to. I love the the details. I I love ready Sanella's music stuff because he's like the same age as my mom and they listen to the same music.
So a lot of the stuff she would play as a kid, he was always like, he always incorporates into his like 80s novels, especially the shards. But they'll have when they go to the club, there's always in excess playing and it's always the same to in excess songs playing back-to-back at this.
Every club that they go to and like, or that I think there's one other one like Belinda Carlisle, there's like 3 songs that are playing at every single club which you, you start to think to this is another game he plays. Where am I lying to you? Or are all these fucking clubs that try to be different actually the same, You know, like, are all these all these establishments that are like, oh, new restaurant from Jean Pierre is, is, is opening up in its state-of-the-art and all that stuff.
And they're like, oh, at the end of the day, there's exposed ducts at the top. It looks unfinished. And there's a red light and they're playing the same exact song way too loud. Yeah. I mean, it is like it's almost, it's almost a book that's saying every, everything is what it is. Because all these clubs trying to be different, they're all the same. All these people trying to fit in, they're all psychos, like everything is what it's trying not to be.
Yeah. And you figure too like, like, I don't think this is necessarily what he's saying in the book, but like you think about it like I could give you a couple sentences from the book. And to take it to somebody from like the primitive ages of like 980 or something, or even before that, like just like Viking, like a Viking, like a conquest Viking guy. And you could say like you could show him the, a paragraph about, you know, Giorgio Armani in here
and going in detail to detail. And then one about like, I chopped this woman's hair. I took a axe to Paul Owens head and, and described that you asked the Viking which one's crazier. They're going to say the fucking
Giorgio Armani thing. Like they're going to be like, they're going to be like, yeah, why would you care that much about this stupid shit like that you wear like this thing that you know, So it's like, it's kind of the idea too is like they're all the every line is delivered with the same intensity, you know, except for like the outright like yelling and like racist stuff that's happening. And even sometimes instead of like yelling, he'll go.
And then I screamed like this at the woman you know, which acts as like even more of a crazy thing 'cause you're like, oh I don't even know what exactly he said but he probably said some wild ass shit. And then later in the book he just calls everyone the N word and stuff and like it just fully, fully 4 Chan's out like and just and and and so it's it's, it's hilarious, man. What do you think Breti Stanilis was saying with that? Yeah, I know.
And that's the other thing he's doing stand up comedy in here. Like it's truly like a stand up comedy routine, like a character, like performance art as like as a character. It's like Sam Hi. It's like very like. Proto Sam. Hi, I was just thinking Sam hot like, yeah, this book is like Sam literary Sam Hyde. Yeah, no, exactly. You, you have the like, just the, just the kind of like response that wouldn't work if someone wrote it that way. But that's why it's funny.
Like it's, it's like, wait, that's why would anyone think to say that back? Like if you were writing a book and it's like, well, he's a psycho. So I, I think that's why a lot of people think this is a cop out like this. Some of this book is a cop out. You go on like Goodreads and beyond the people that are complaining about the actual gore and like, you know, misogyny and stuff, there's a lot of people saying like, well, but if you just make a psycho guy and then just say, well,
he's whatever. And then the the cop out is that, well, of course this doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to. He's a psycho. I go, no, that's how this works actually. And it's all about how well you establish this character. And he's always been a stylist. Brady Sanellas is a stylist. That's what he is. That's he's a satirist and a stylist. And that's where he wins you over from the from the beginning of the book. He can do whatever he wants. Yeah, 100%.
And where, I mean, I think we said this on maybe the Rules of Attraction episode, but like, if if you have no sense of humor, you're just not going to get it. Yeah. Like, and people tie themselves up in knots over trying to be like, whether they love it or hate it or they're defending it or they're like condemning it. It's they, they tie themselves up in these academic knots trying to be so fucking serious about it. And it's like it's, it's not.
It is. It is ironic and like the literal definition of it, but but it's not just being, it's not being ironic with its nose in the air. It's like it's being funny. Yes, and you're allowed to laugh at how gross it is. You're allowed to laugh at like at a guy perplexed as though he bought a bunch of things from a store and is like, why did I buy? Why did I go to the grocery store hungry? I don't know what I'm going to make with this, but it's a dead
woman splayed out on the floor. You're allowed to laugh at that like that. And that's the beauty of of I think, and I think we talked about this on the shards episode as well, where it's just like use the medium to do stuff like that. Like This is why writing like this is the advantage. If people can talk about, Oh, books are at a low right now. Like people aren't aren't reading. Well, if nobody's reading, then
write something weird, man. Like, like if it like the mods are asleep, you know, like, like the on the message board, Like if nobody's reading, write something insane. Because the problem is, is people write books right now in the detached ready Sinella's voice because they think, oh, I'm detached. I grew up on Vyvanse. I fucking am on SSRI. But guess what? You're not as interesting as him.
You're not as observant as him, and you're not able to take a certain thought and project it into one character that I care about for 400 pages. And they're you're detaching from nothing usually too like Brady Sanella documents what he's detaching from all the time. If you listen to his podcast, he goes well in this book. I was rules of attraction. I was going through a college breakup where it was a guy that was like bisexual, but more than likely going to end up with a woman.
I was a fling. I thought it was this. Therefore, you get rules of attraction less than 0. He's like, I felt very numb graduating from this high school. And I wanted to to put that feeling of numbness in there. The shards is definitely kind of like a like a an expanded epic of less than 0 in a sense functions in the same world at least. And then this book. Is such a masterpiece. I still think it's his best so far. Shards is like I, I don't, I think if that came out in 1997,
it would have been massive. And unfortunately it got like wasted on people and people viewed it as a podcast book. I think which that is the best way to listen to it is through his podcast on Patreon because he reads it and they documented on the Patreon. I think of like all the chapters so you can like get through them and stuff and that is the best
way. And I think it's unedited on the Patreon. And I think some people say that the book, which I have literally right here, is edited a little bit more and maybe there's it's just doesn't read as well. I think it's like kind of a 'cause I think he meant to like have the book consumed through that medium. And then eventually people are like, dude, you have to write this, we have to print it and all that stuff.
So I think it's meant to be. So I just think that that that book in like 10 years is going to be viewed as an insane masterpiece because right now people are like so romantic about like publishing still. And they're like, well, you know, it's not a book unless you buy it at the store. Or like you didn't go through the proper channels. Which he would tell you don't exist and he's correct. Absolutely. And he would know the best. He's been through it all. And yeah, I, I stopped, I really
stopped giving a shit. Not like I ever gave much of one at all. But anybody's idea of what the publishing industry is. When you won't listen to Bret Easton Ellis, who has had major success through traditional publishing, telling you that the shit just does not exist anymore, but it's not the way to do shit, and he's just dropping books on his podcast, you're still going to like, you're going to ignore that. Really. You think you want to be on Simon and fucking Schuster?
Like get out of here. You're not there. The thing is is like, and I wonder for some people now you don't come from this world, but I think there's a lot of like MFA program people who if they self publish a book and tell their parents, right and their parents go what? I paid for the fucking MFA program for you to self publish. So there's like a lot of like Dad, I'm on Penguin.
And it's and it's simple validation too, because they could be like, hey, dad, I'm on Penguin and he doesn't even ask for like, oh, oh, what was the advance or like how much you're making just. Unpublished Dad. It's just, oh wow, you're at a Random House, huh? It's like literally who gives a shit? There's people who want Texas tea and I've had honest conversations about like I've had really honest conversations about it and it's always money. I'm like, how much Like give me
100 grand we can talk. They're like, that ain't going to be that. But like can't wait to read it. OK, you can read it when I publish it through Broken River because. Right, right. And and like that's that that is AI think he had trouble getting this published. I, I didn't look too far into it, but I, I know he had like trouble getting American Psycho published. And this is during probably the last era of like the Rockstar author.
Like, like cuz even in the 2000s that I don't know that we had the Rockstar author maybe a little bit, but but maybe that was kind of the end of it. But like the 90s was like the last like Rockstar author. You had like Freddie Sanellas, I think Jonathan Franzen, Chuck Palahniuk, like guys that like you, you'd see out on the town and they were as much of A celebrity as people as they were writers.
In fact, some people would only know them as people and maybe not read their books or only read their, you know, like the Rockstar writer nowadays. Like, like I said, I think you have a lot of people who are over educated and they're constantly like sitting on material, whether it's good or bad, they're sitting on this material and kind of like using themselves as a martyr, like trying to get it published in an
industry that doesn't exist. And it's like, well, and I listen to his podcast when people write, it's a lot of writers that that will write him in his mailbag. Those are his best episodes of the mailbag ones. And he'll say, guys, I'm not trying to like be mean or anything. He's like, but screenplays, all these things, you're there's no like guy you just hand it to anymore. And then the guy goes, well, I'll give it to my boss. And that's he's like, it's not
the way the world works. So like, are you guys? I don't even think that's something you can like salvage on your own either. Like I don't think that's so like we have more freedom now to do the things that we want to do, but the you are limited to like, OK, well this isn't going to get a marketing budget from there. But again, are is Simon and Schuster giving you a marketing budget? Even if they do to publish it? It's that's the weird part about.
It I have a friend who I got to be careful because I don't want to like throw his shit under the bus, but like I have a friend who's going through some shit with a publisher who wants them to do all this promotion and shit. And it's like, here's your schedule. And he's like, all right, so I'm trying to plan this and that and I'm like, how, how are they like, are they paying for this shit? Really already knowing the
answer, right? And he's like, Nah, but you know, it's an investment and like an investment and what they like. If you're, if you want me to fly to another city, you're buying the ticket or I'm not going period. That like it's, it's not a difficult concept. Like it's just, it's just what for what? You can't tell me what to do and not cough up some money for it. I I totally agree, man.
I totally agree. Yeah, I, I just, in this book, there's just like constant, like there's constant just new girls that show up. I love the almost like the chapters, the chapter endings function as like a blackout where it's like, yeah. And then I blacked out. Like, he doesn't say it, but like the the Bateman's like, this is over. We're at Nell's six hours later, after I've ostensibly killed a woman.
So good at I. I know it's not like quite the same thing like being a a sociopath or living out it, whether fantasizing about being a serial killer or being a serial killer, whatever. Like, it's not exactly the same thing as like being a meth head or an insomniac, but they're very similar in the way that your day-to-day just feels like
it all just blurs together. Sure, when you have a job like that too, when you have a job like that, especially just I mean, again, he doesn't have to have a job, but again, like what if he didn't, you know, he has to. He feels the need to maintain optics for something that where like nobody gets his name right ever, except Evelyn, like literally like you could. That's also another joke of this. He could get away with all of
this stuff. You feel like oh, or at least a a decent amount of it, because like nobody even knows the name of the guy that's missing that day at work. They're like is that is that Marcus Halberstrom? Is that this guy is at this is the they're like, no, you dumb ass, that's, you know, Elliot Johnson and they're like, no, it's not. And then it's really a secret like eighth name that not even like there, you realize like how much all this is 1 big BLOB and it doesn't matter.
And like you said, those days are time warps. Those days are just like odd days where stuff doesn't, doesn't make sense and logic is gone. And like, when you have one of those jobs where you're just not passionate about it at all and you're constantly thinking about the thing you are passionate about, even if it's not killing people, even if it's something constructive, something that you actually do. Like, that's the time. That's the stuff you care about documenting.
That's the stuff you care about sharing the people rather than the, yeah, I took a nail and hammered it in there, you know, like, and then I did that again. And then I had lunch, you know, like, I'm not going to share that with you. It's yeah, man, I'm thinking of a totally different spin on the ending now to thinking about how everybody is so forgettable and everybody basically is Patrick Bateman. Patrick Bateman, that there's like, there's the possibility he
did all this stuff. Yeah. And at the end they're like when dudes like I just had had dinner with him in London like 5 days ago, it was like, Are you sure he might not have or are you thinking of somebody else? Right. And you don't know these hookers, these like random girls, which people forget their names half the time too. You don't know. And then there is one time where a guy recognizes him as a limo driver because he had killed a limo driver once.
And the way he talks about it, it's funny because the guy robs him, which is hilarious. He gets robbed for all this stuff. It gets like pulled over and he gets robbed by the cab driver and he goes, they probably have my picture up everywhere at that cab stand where I killed that cab driver. He's like, they probably, and even then there's like this narcissism elements like they're probably thinking about me 24/7 at that cab stand. They got pictures of me everywhere.
I'm going to talk to the town. Obviously, one thing we got to mention is the presence of Donald Trump in this. He's everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Everywhere. It's kind of funny I cuz. I at the time, you know, Donald Trump is like business tycoon guy. There was kind of a, a thing about Donald Trump like before he became president was kind of like, yeah, what does this guy actually do?
You know, like he was kind of like, he's just like a wheel and deal like money guy where everything's gold and he's like entertaining and funny and he's gone on The Apprentice and stuff. But this is even before that. This is, this is 10 years prior to like him being a reality * And he was just kind of like this businessman mergers and acquisition socialite guy. And Patrick Bateman wants to be him, right? So I think people would have a different view altogether about Donald Trump.
But at the time people were like, wow, he's aspiring to be this guy who like people aren't even sure what he actually does, you know, but he's everywhere. He knows there's that part where everyone knows how obsessed he is with Donald Trump because Trump, I think Patrick Bateman talks about the pizza at this one place and he's like, I fucking hated the pizza at this one place. And the guy goes, it was phenomenal. They don't speak together for a
while. The next day they meet up and I think it's like Van Patten or McDermott, one of those guys, he says, you know who really loved that pizza? Donald Trump. He's like, well, yeah, OK. I mean the flower they use is is fine. I mean. And it's just like he is obsessed with with with Trump. So it is kind of crazy how predictive all of this stuff is. We're talking about right wing anons, all of these things that this all becomes and then. People if Trump loves it, then it's the best.
It's which is which is what so many people do with the it's like pick a lane. Do you want to follow who who like Ray Pete or do you want to be like McDonald's is the best food of all time? You know why? Because Donald Trump says that it's the best. Like pick a side. He's a plan trust. I mean he's like he might be the first plan truster Patrick Bateman. He might be the first like Q
Anon guy. I mean you figure I mean he's killing people and he's obsessed with Donald Trump and I'm not like, you know, I I'm not even against the guy. I just mean like it's just funny. At the time you're reading this, you're like, how the fuck? Like, how forward thinking are you? And obviously I don't think even, you know, Bryson else is thinking that Donald Trump's ever going to be like president of the United States or anything at the time.
But it's just kind of crazy how the news cycle, like Patrick Bateman's news cycle is kind of like our news cycle. Like there's these times where Patrick Bateman's just like at the beginning when he's trying to impress people at the party and just talking about every current event. And he has that show that he watches the Patty Winters show, which is the subject matter gets more and more like Requiem for a Dream. Like as the book goes on.
Like at first it's like, well, you know, this, this lady's on there and she lost her house and she's talking about it. Then it's like, oh, silly pet tricks. And then it's like 14 year old girls that sell their pussy for crack. Like it's like the and afterwards, and which again, that kind of was a thing. And during 90s daytime talk shows there was like
exploitation. So it's not that out of the question, but I just think he's like a guy who's just saying the news cycle over and over again and then going to Trump and then you're just like, whoa, there's people like that now. And they they're void. They're all, they're all void of any actual interest in anything too. So it's just, it's, it's, it's kind of it's nothing ever does happen, even despite the world changing.
I I think you're most intuitive just when you document shit when you're just observant in the present moment. Noticing. Noticing is how you become is how you intuit the most and and you don't know it when it's happened. Like I don't think Freddie Stinellis was very forward thinking or predictive and what he was doing with any of this. It was just like being
observant. And then you really see how just shit evolves and it, you know, alchemizes and it mixes with different things, but it doesn't really change. Yeah, he's almost like doing this, like Hunter S Thompson kind of thing, though not really declaring himself as that. Like he's kind of just like, I'm involved in all of these things, all of the stuff you guys watch on TV, Entertainment Tonight, Who? The celebrity who's dating this,
who does that? I will tell you what that world actually is. You'll be surprised how boring and stupid it is. But what if in that boring and stupid world, there was a guy talking about sawing women's heads off, putting stuff up their pussy. Like doing all of these crazy things, but saying it in the same tone as he is describing the latest Huey Lewis in the news record? Which again, that in itself is an irony because those records are not anything beyond pop
music. Like anything beyond like, you know, yuppie like convertible phone inside the car, like driving down the coast just hit listening to hip to be square. And he talks about it as though it's like William Blake or something like and and and it's the the, the the whole part of that is like these people will find this importance in stuff that is just not important at all.
And that's more that is more psychotic than actually just engaging in something and then throwing it away and being moving on to something else, you know, just being like, OK, this is here. We listen to the news. I'm going to go listen to this other artist later. He puts this like, no, you don't understand. And that's the psycho that like psychotic obsession with, I won't say bad music. I don't I'm not into it, but
like bad music. But he also hated all my guy Peter Gabriel and the Phil Collins thing. So I got a little pissed off about that. I hope that's not a real opinion. I fucking hope that's not ready smells. His real opinion that Peter Gabriel was the worst part of Genesis, because I would if I ever talked to him, I will fucking like bring that up. I hope that's like a Batemanism and not a Ellisism, but. What would a crazy person think? Maybe I'm hoping because that's correct.
That was what a crazy person would think. But yeah, he just this idea that like everything that I'm fixated on, despite it being literally just consumerist, nothing, whatever. If this is game seven of the World Series level important and I'm now I'm glad I have you as my audience, even though we're all interested in like, hey, what are you going to do? That girl you just met? Yeah. So, yeah, it's Jean. Jean too. He I like, I like to, I like, I like what they do in the movie with Jean.
They they combine her with the other girl who basically Patrick says, oh, I can't, I'm going to kill you if I'm with you any longer, you know, And he's that that's that part's good. I like what they do in the movie with combining Jean into that character. But then in the book it's good because it works well for the book when he actually kind of soft dates gene a little bit and he was like, I can't do this, I
am a psycho. There there's a lot of that in the book, you know, and and knowing what medium you're working with, right, going back to that, like there's a lot that should not have been in the movie, but it only it only works because it's the book. And I'm curious what I hope with the new movie they take from the book but do the same thing. They're like, this is a movie we're going to, you know, do something different. But I hope it's not just a RIP of the movie that's already been made.
You know, let's modernize it and throw in some different actors and do the thing that they already did with that other movie. I like Luca a lot. I think Luca is one of the best directors right now. So I when I found out it was him, I got excited and I'm excited for Ryan Murphy to do the shards, which I think is great because I think you need a trashy gay guy to do shards. That's happening. Yeah. That yeah, that could be tight. It's a series too.
So it's like, you know, they're going to and I, I just think Ryan Murphy's not going to skimp on like the psychotic gay stalker, like yearning aspect of it and and the trashiness like, because you know, I re I watched there's a game of fiction episode coming out on sharp objects, which is a masterpiece of a book in my opinion. And I loved the show when it
came out. Then re watching the show, the 2018 series, I was like, it was directed by some like French guy who had to make it look like high arts with what's always twilight in the magic hours hitting. And it's like, no, I want like a sweaty person with, like, sweat stains and like, you know, like I want like that, you know, and people are sweaty in the in the show. But I think Ryan Murphy's more or less going to do a good job with the shards and at least make it just entertaining.
And I think that I think that show might make, if the show is good, it's going to make the book a hit because it is a really good mystery thriller. Like, it's like, like, yeah. It is crazy how slept on that book is like everybody will like in in our bubble. I feel like we're in a couple of bubbles because I know people from like the indie literary world who really fucked with it. It's weird how much of like a cult hit it is when it's so far into this mega stars career.
Like he's fucking Bradyson Ellis and it's like a a cult hit, a little known, like a best kept secret that this is a modern day masterpiece. And he lost a little bit of audience, I think, in terms of literary audience, when he wrote White, which is good. That's right, I haven't read that one, but it's. Good. It's good. I mean, it's kind of like by now it's stuff you've all heard. But he was saying it at a time. He's like, why are we tripping out about Donald Trump?
Like, why are we like, why is everybody like going crazy? Like when I was a kid, very rallying against PC culture, which now when you hear somebody come out against PC culture, you're like, hey, man, where were you a long time ago? But it's good. But why? It alienated a lot, a lot of his audience, which is funny because you're you're when you're a Freddy Sanella's audience person and you're like a liberal or something, like you're always
scared to like indict yourself. I think that's when you have to like insulate yourself from the material where you're like, well, he's satire and you know all these things. And yes, it is satire, but you're reading it. You're sick and gross, so deal with it like you're quote, you're ugly. You read the graphic gay sex scenes you've done you've you read all that stuff and you liked it and you, you like the misogyny in his books. You like all of these things. It's satire that's coming from
the inside, though. Yeah. It's like a lot of satire is. Look at the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, right? Which the majority I haven't seen every episode or whatever. I don't think anybody has. Yeah, it's. Been on for so fucking long it's crazy I. Thought it was AI the new season looks like AII was like Are they just AI ING it's? Always Sunny maybe, but like that shit's coming from the
outside. Like these are mega libs that are making this show about just the most the trashiest, most terrible people. But it's still it is funny. It works, but that is how most satires is coming from the outside. Bret Easton Ellis is like, these people are me and I'm going to make fun of them and I'm going to ridicule them, but they're me. And and he's and he's making fun of himself as the observer sometimes where it's like, who are, who am I?
Am I, what am I doing holier than thou, you know, in the shards, like, you know, that's ultimate unreliable narrator kind of kind of story where it's like, I'm observing this, I'm writing a book. I'm the smartest kid in school kind of basically, but then getting called on it and be like, dude, you're fucking insane. Like what is wrong with you? It's just people saying that constantly and like being like caught in the act.
Whereas in like American Psycho, like you said, he probably likes a lot of the clothing these people are wearing. He probably likes them. I mean, I know he likes Body Double by Brian De Palma. I know I just heard him talk about it. And like, I know he like a lot of these a lot of these things. He's probably like, yeah, I kind of like it. Like I I'm 1 foot in, one foot out as the observer. But also when when somebody notices you observing and like calls you on it, that often
happens in the book. I feel like, in his books where it's like, hey, man, you're in here with us too, buddy. You're not better than us, you know, and, and, and I think that's the coziness and the intimacy of a Bradyson Ellis novel. Whereas a lot of people think he's keeping you away and detaching and stuff. But really it's like, oh, you're observing. You're right there with them watching everything happen.
That's something that's something I decided to do with Texas tea was like, I've always been very, I think like coming at the observations that I've made in other books of, you know, hood rats and low lives, but from an empathetic, like right there in the trenches with them. Like perspective like this is. And it's a sympathetic perspective and it's a lived experience or whatever. But like with Texas tea, I'm just like ridiculing the same people, like all calling out all the bullshit.
And yeah, it it's it's that that satire coming from inside the house. It's like, I mean, this is me. Yeah. And also, here's all this bullshit. Right, right. No, I hear you. Exactly. And, you know, bringing it back to what we were talking about earlier is like just how this book still resonates to this day, perhaps even more so because I think people just maybe weren't even ready for this at the time.
It became a, it became a best seller after a while because because of the taboo nature of it. I mean, people wanted it censored. People wanted it out. I think to to a degree that ended up happening. It was wrapped in plastic for that's. Right. Like a biohazard, almost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is that? That was always insane to me. That's. Tight though.
That's tight, yeah. Because you know, there's like porn would be wrapped in plastic so kids can't just open it up and look at naked bitches in the bookstore. Or you'd have manga for the same reason, like a lot of really graphic manga would be wrapped in plastic. This is a book with words. Like that's that's baller shit. Honestly, I can't think of another time they did that to a
novel. Yeah, it's like, because it also, you know, what's weird about it is like it's there is a taboo nature to like open the Hellraiser cube, right? Like you're like, I'm going to open the Hellraiser cube because if I saw a book raft and I'm like, what the fuck is that book raft in plastic in the fiction section? I'm like, I'm buying that. Like, for sure, I'm buying that. It's the explicit content, the parental advisory sticker, super
gore. Yeah. Now when you don't see, like they put that shit on there trying to keep people away from it, and now you put like every artist puts it on there themselves. They don't go through a board to get on there. They're like you'd make sure you got the explicit sticker on there. Yeah, they say fuck like 3 more times and I think we qualify. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, yeah. It's just, it's just funny. And like, you know, with him, he talks about, you know, the book writing himself.
He notices a certain thing and he's like in the book writes itself. He was not a working writer. I think he would take jobs with like Vanity Fair, I think times and times do to do profiles and stuff. But in terms of novels, he was not a like working short story writer. He didn't want to write a novel a year. He wasn't like one of those people. But you know, I think he maybe regrets a little bit not working that way because, you know, maybe there's money left on the table.
But every one of his books has like this huge, I mean, I won't say everyone, but like a lot of his books have the like massive cultural significance and staying power too. Like, I mean, you just people are buying this again, like people are buying these these things.
And especially with American Psycho, where what it what happened post 2020, you basically became like a psycho in your apartment the whole time if you followed the rules, which Patrick Bateman is following the rules the entire time. He is all about optics. He is worried when he pays for meals that they cost, they don't cost like they're not expensive enough. So he's like, oh, I picked up
the check. Now I think I'm a cheapskate because I picked paid a $273 meal, you know, rather than the 401 that McDermott picked up the other night. And and he's playing by the rules, these arbitrary rules, but rules nonetheless. And if you did that in like 2020, you became just a person that stayed in their apartment all day, did nothing but like analyze gear, order stuff to your house, spend beyond your means or whatever. I mean, I don't know, Bateman's not doing that.
But like you're spending like, like it doesn't matter. Kind of like in this like time caps kind of this time warp thing and you're online and interacting with people and like yelling and just basically blogging your thoughts online or on front of a microphone like this, you know? And, and that's why when you pick this up, you're kind of like, damn, man, if I didn't leave my house for a fucking week or something. And like the, everything was
shut. And you know, I remember people lost some of their, some of their etiquette or some people lost some like hygiene during times, you know, during the, during those times. And you think of the time where Patrick Bateman's like, my apartment's unusable right now because of the rotten fruit smell, which I now realize is
Cynthia's head, you know? And like, they're, there's just like these people like the Patrick Bateman type of like the person who's following the rules all the time, except in their mind is absolutely present and hype and, and even more so now, in my opinion. You see all these spurgs on the Internet, but you were seeing them in real life too.
Whenever like I think majority of outside society has kind of at least anywhere I'm at, like people have kind of been put in check enough that we got that shit balanced back out. But I remember because I was working all through, I was never confined to anywhere during the, you know, the 20, what, 2019 to 22, whatever it was, I was out working. It was like this construction bitch, like the world shut down.
We got to get these buildings opened up, but I would go into like open stores that I was remodeling or delivering something to and there'd be people like shaking coming up to me. Like why aren't you wearing a mask? Almost like, bitch, have you not been punched in the face enough in your life? Like get your finger out of my face. If you were scared, you wouldn't come close to me, by the way, you know, like if you were, you just want to be annoying.
Like there was a window where people were like, their psychosis broke to the point where what they would type, you know, aggressively from a keyboard, They were actually coming out in real life and trying to get in people's grill about. And I'm like, hold up, motherfucker. Yeah, and you and and it made you rather than, you know, in 19, the late 1980s, any thought that you had, you had to still implemented into like an action, like a physical action in person.
Whereas if you had these evil thoughts about people on like spring break or something like, oh, they're spreading germs everywhere. You could just find those persons employers and call them. So like your sociopathic thought was a lot easier to put into action than Patrick Bateman were back then. You know, like in that in that time it makes it easier to be a psycho in my opinion now.
Yeah, and you and you know, if they had the choice, they would want to go with like an Uzi and just spray the beach down. Yeah, go to a mega church, you know, like super libs will be like, I'll go to a mega church and get, you know, like do some crazy thing like that. Like, I mean, if you go to blue sky right now, that's what they're doing. I'm like blue sky, like they're saying crazy stuff on like like
crazy violent things. It's. It's I got, I got into I I stalked a couple of people who we were beefing with a little while back and was like, where do they say it on their gay little platforms they like to use? And it is, it is absolutely psychotic. And they're always screenshotting us owning them on, on X and, and being like, look at these races. Like, yeah, look at where we really put you in your place and you look like a dork.
Exactly, exactly. Like it's that Patrick Bateman mentality of just like I won because I'm, I didn't give up. I won and all of this stuff. And it's like, dude, the person that you're hyper fixated on, it doesn't know you exist, you know, and, and, and they're, they're like, they know that you're a thing. You're like occupying a chair right there. And if you weren't there, they'd be like, hey, where'd that guy go? But they'd say a name that's not yours or something like you, you
don't exist, like to them. And, and that's, that's the, the fun of the book, man. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's the fun of it. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's I, I, I will say this. If you are somebody who's like, well, I've seen the movie like 10 times. Like, what's the book? They trust me. The book is a did pick it up. Yeah, pick it up. It's it's worth it. You know, my opinion always
grows on on the movie. Like I remember back in the day, you know, I'd watch it here and there and be like, it was a, it was a heavily rented movie, heavily played movie on cable and stuff. And so, you know, you'd either see parts of it all the time or you'd rent it a few times. And I was like, yeah, it's a good movie. And then a few years ago, I just randomly watched it again and was like, yeah, this movie slaps. This is a great movie. It's watching it again.
Even after reading the book, I was like, this movie's fucking incredible. It's so good. But you you got to read the book like the book is the experience for sure. It almost feels like a novelization at times, like where it's like they're like, it almost feels like the reorder was reversed, like it was a movie that became a book because you're like, oh, all the they did take a lot of the stuff that you need to put in here. And then they make their allusions to things that they
can't show. Like when he has the spinning, the lock of blonde hair as he's like sitting in the office, like just to let you know, like, hey, something went down, don't worry. And there's there's like. But yeah, this is well worth picking it up. You can, you can read it in like two or three days.
Like truly it's 400 pages. But like, you'll just, you'll become addicted to it. You'll just want, it's like a it's, it's, it's like you're doing a deep dive onto something, onto something like that. And, and you'll be laughing your ass off. There's just certain certain replies that he has or certain internal thoughts to something someone says that you don't exactly get in the movie, that those are really funny. And yeah, like I the man with, but with the movie, I I've seen
it so many times. I remember Breti Senos. I couldn't remember if it was the director or the screenwriter. I think it was the director, Mary Herron. And she could be wrong. It's either director of the screenwriter and you know, it's a woman directed movie. And she she came on and she was talking about like she tried to find some angle, which is so funny how she can adapt it so well. But she found some angle about how it's like commenting on like
toxic masculinity. And he he's nice in the interview. He goes, oh, no, is that what you saw out of it? Like, because he's like, it's not, I mean, but like it's not what's happening. Like it's, I mean, I guess technically you could say if you believe what's happening in the book to be true or just the fact that his thoughts like, yeah, maybe that is a toxic male trait that you want to saw women's heads off.
But I don't know if that's worth, I don't know if that's worth telling a story about if that's all you're doing. There's not a lot that it has to say about masculinity, honestly. He doesn't even know what masculinity is. No, but yeah like he literally does not. He doesn't know what anything is other than what he consumes. If American Psycho is any sort of commentary on masculinity, it's like this is literally the problem with fatherless
children. True. This is a guy whose father is dead and who is probably distant the majority of his life, and this is what he's left with. Like this is what he thinks the world is. He he has no fucking center of gravity. Yeah, and also just the fact that he's just such a nobody and he could disappear for a month. I think he like does I think they go to the Hamptons or something and he's like still torturing animals even though he's supposed to be on a getaway
with. With like Aspen? I think it's Aspen. Yeah, that's right. And he's like, still, like, they're like, you could use our cabin and Aspen like, oh, this would be such a great getaway. And he's like, anyways, I bought some mice to torture. And like some cat and like a. Cat and stuff. He's like, yeah, we're getting away, we're having fun. And and it's just it's just funny how he kind of throws you off the trail when you think you have a read on the book through
then. This is funny as fuck. This is hilarious. I love it. I could read 1000 pages of it and I wouldn't get sick of it. And yeah, I mean, Brady Sanellas will be is will always be an all time great to me. And I think our next one is, I think our next one's Lunar Park after this. I I don't know what. Was it Lunar Park next? I can't remember. I can't remember. Glamorama, I can't. Remember. Oh, it's Glamorama of. Course it's. Glamorama yeah, absolutely. That's that.
That one I think is that will have potential to be my favorite because I think it has like the Thomas Pynchon like absurdist espionage conspiracy stuff to it that I think I'm going to really like. I know that book people are torn up about, torn on that one, like whether people like, I think people who love it are like, this is his best. And if you don't like it, you're like, it's unreadable.
So I'm excited about that one. Hell yeah is I'm hyped because it's the one I'm least familiar with, like. Yeah, that's right. Glamour Rama. That's right. Yeah, I was like completely forgot about that. Cuz then it's Lunar Park after that and it's like, yeah, I'm, I'm excited. I'm excited 'cause there's there's the lore of Glamorama where there's the Kit Pardue movie where he's just having sex
the whole time. And I think it's like directed by Roger Avery who did the rules of attraction thing, but it just never came out. That sounds like some shit that you would have like it's like it's never, it's just never going to happen. I don't know if I have that correct of who directed it, but I think I thought I was supposed to be. Roger. How unfortunate too, because Kit Pardue is like the perfect Breti
Stenella star. I mean, he's great in was it rules of Attraction, Right. He's in, he's in that. Yeah, he's he's great. Which that's I mean, American Psycho is an awesome adaptation. I think rules of Attraction is a tougher, even tougher thing to adapt the way they did it.
And I think I was like, those two movies are better than the less than 0 movie, which I think it's a more acclaim nowadays are well, American Psycho gets a lot of acclaim, but the the rules of Attraction 1 is is really, really good. I mean, that's that movie is like, I was kind of surprised because they do a lot of different things, but the tone that Ellis has is all in there. And that's that's all that matters when you adapt a book is like.
It feels like it could have been directed by Ellis. It definitely does. No, it definitely does. So yeah, guys coming up on on Gain of Fiction, we have gosh, what's after this? I think it's going to be Sharp Objects. This is a free episode, by the way. Enjoy it, guys, Enjoy it. This is a free episode. If you want to hear over 60 other volumes of gain of fiction, you can go to rarecandy.substack.com and sign up for the premium feed. It's well worth your time. You could be.
You'll definitely find a good reading list. They're basically and companion pieces to it all. But I'm doing something big on Gravity's Rainbow coming up. Also there. Gosh, I have so many in the in the backlog right now. Oh yeah, David and I did Eaters of the Dead with the with the Michael Crichton novel. That'll be coming up relatively soon. We've also covered almost all of Michelle Welbeck's catalog in reverse. And so we're working our way up.
Platform will be the next installment there. And then it's Southern Gothic Month in August that we will be doing William Faulkner's As I Lay Dying and Flannery O'Connor's Wise Blood. So on that no guys, everybody have a safe week. Listen to agitator by the way, listen to agitator by God's fair, no better be on the lookout for Texas tea. But where? Where do you guys? It's Amazon is the best way or or for your guys's books. You can find them on Amazon. Yeah, you. Beef with them.
You beef with Amazon though. I do they still they owe me like thousands of dollars. What? Yeah. That's right, You did tell me about that. I mean it's that's nothing for Bezos man. Yeah, I know. It's like literally just give me my money. But whatever, you can find them. It's through that I figured out a way I I'll get the money from it, you know now. But you guys have your own site too. I I can't remember what you guys it's like. I sell on kelbylosac.bigcartel.com.
David, he made like 4 websites at a time, which is smart to. I told him, you know, you all need websites, but now I can't remember which one. ronantrash.bigcartel.com I think. Or maybe it's ronantrash.com. Yeah. So buy it on Amazon I guess. Yeah, make sure you guys make sure you guys get that support them. They've both been very, very critical part of this particular series as well as our show in general. So that's, that's all I got
guys. Everybody have a safe week and look at you guys next.