Rap Radar: The Game

don't think of songs. Like you're an album's artist, right, people that give bodies of work like talk about that, you know, prodely Man having that, and like how do you then approach albums? I think like from the early stages of my love for hip hop and uh we even my father before hip hop, and he always had like a CD case that was the road shotgun in his Seville and his Cadillac. So it was like he would have to pick the you know, CD case up and then put in the back seat if you was

riding with him. So it's like you open the CD case and he was real, O c D about you know the Gap band on this page and then George Clinton on the next page, and you know he had his early rap, the Sugar Hill Gang and all of that. So once I are really getting the hip hop, you know, my popsiblet me a CD case and then I would have like, you know, uh, all Nass albums and you know, the Chronic and the Chronic two thousand one and all jay Z albums on the page, so that if my

homies came over, they're flipping through my CDs systhetically. It was pleasing. So UM, that's why that's the number one reason that um that I'm just the album guy. I love like full bodies of work. I feel like UM. And then back then, you know, like you really you had to. You couldn't just drop a single, or you could drop a single, you could drop the who let Them Dogs Out? And then or you could have been like one of those artists that UM just is cemented

in like you know, hip hop forever. And I wanted to be one of those artists. UM. So that's why I was always important to me. I thought you retired from the game though, man, from the last project. You know what it is, man, is I try every time to kind of step back, um, and really, and I

could easily just never rap again. But I got so many people around me who believe, who really believe that I'm one of the best rappers ever ever, dead or alive, and they really really believed that, and I noticed to be true too. So I just you know, I come back man every now. And your process, like putting out dramatic? Was it? Was it the take off when you and he did the easy thing or did you already kind

of a Planum? So this is this nigga. Yeah, I was working on my album and I was almost complete. I was almost finished with it, and then he was like, yo, he popped in. We did easy and he was like, yeah, Let's go to Miami. And I'm like, I'm in the middle of the ALBUMY like I need you and that's my brother. So I'm like, all right, we go to Miami. We end up being in Miami for a month working on working on down to Two and we got you know, we got to complete. But then that was a month

that I took off of my album. So once Yea came back to l A from you know, to see his kids and stuff, I didn't know. I stayed in Miami because at that point I'm having fun. And then after that I stopped by you know, Houston in New Orleans and had some more fun. So I ended up being gone for sixty days off my projects. So when I came back, I was just like, I gotta like get back into it. So I took like, you know, maybe a week to just dive back into it, a

little uh um lyrical exercise, you know. I was doing songs that wasn't per set for the album or just to get back in the swing of things. And so once I did that, it was another three months that I needed to put the album out. And it was basically basically based on sample clearances, which I might not ever use a sample ever again in my life after this album because um number one, I had thirty songs on the album trying to clear I think maybe twenty

of them as samples in them. And samples are getting so meticulous these days that it's not just like clearing a whole sample, like it's you gotta go through the writers and the producers, and some of these people can't be found, and some of these people are no longer living, and you gotta go through the states. And it could be one high hat that is from something fifty years ago, and if you don't find that you gotta pull the

whole sample. And they're getting tricky with like replaying stuff too, and you know what I'm saying, interpolation, So it's like it's just too tedious. So I think from here on out, I'm just gonna go straight back to just raw hip hop and just my voice, less features and less samples.

But this album came out incredible. That's why I pushed it all the way for the last six months, six seven months, and I'm just I'm just happy that that it came together the way it did, and I was able to keep almost every song that I recorded for it,

and that they all jailed the way they did. And you shout it out, jay Z for helping you clear seven samples on the right, Yeah, man, eight now eight eight because at the end of the day, I used the Father's prayer, which was, you know, I can't see it coming down my eyes and make somebody's son cry um, And so you got to clear that even if you flip a word or something like that, and rightfully so, because everybody should get what they deserve if that, you know,

if they were true to they aren't. And Thearra, the originators of creating that content. Did you think that he was going to get those clear for you? Um, because of my tricky pass with throwing shots at um. You know, I think at this point he knows that I have grown and I have matured, and also of course he has grown, and I mean he's own and been grown in his wisdom. You know, Uh just by far is it's whole man, you know what I'm saying. So he

I'm pretty sure from afar he sees my growth. We have mutual friends with tim um for real, so he knows what's up. And um, I just I was hoping he cleared him. He cleared someone born to rap two. So it wasn't like I didn't think he was, but for him to be able to just be like what do you say your game, I'm gonna give you like five, like give you all of them. I mean, if you hold you kind of got to clear everything done and that type of guys or yeah, so, um, yeah he

cleared him. I was ecstatic about it and I'm forever grateful. And I mean, you know the old me that took the shots at the home, and you know, I don't regret anything like I did what I did and I think that he understands that too. You know. I'm so I was young, I was twenty and shooting, you know, throwing rocks at the throne. Hope has always been at the top, and I've always been a fan, and so even if I'm a fan, I can still challenge you.

You know what I'm saying, Like if I feel like if Floyd Mayweather could have really boxed Muhammad Ali and his prime like, he would have done that. It's not that he wants to go to war with Mommad Ali. It's just that he's a fan and that guy is that guy, So you always want to challenge that, you know what I'm saying. I started from Scritch to you also referenced the conversation you guys had, and you said, maybe I miss understood what he was trying to say, Like, yeah,

all right. So Jimmy Henchman, my brother, Jimmy Henchman, my good brother man. Yeah, was my was my manager at the time. Earlier on in my career. He took me to the forty Club and I was so excited that I was going to meet Jay Z and to go to the forty forty Club. And I hadn't even um, really I don't think I might not even been signed the aftermath yet. But um, I went to the forty Club and if you know anything about it, at the

bottom there's this bar, you know what I'm saying. And so I went straight in because we were told the way that at the bar, Hove is in the meeting with Leore and Kevin Loose and uh so I was chilling at the bar, ended up having shots. So when I went when I finally got to meet Hold, he was upstairs or you know, I think in the room playing a pool, playing on the pool. Take yea room.

And so I went in there and I was just at that point I was excited, but still I was like disoriented a little bit from my shots and a little nebriated. So um, the things that he said got misconstrued, and like I was like sort of offended by his aggressive approach to teach me or to tell me, you know, and uh, I took it the wrong way. And I took it back to l A and just did some you know, some some cool for young nigger ship and started throwing shots. But again, like I said, I don't

regret nothing. And then that was a moment and um, I think that might have been one or two times I've even ever even seen home in my life. So and that's crazy, being that I've been in the game twenty years. Almost remember what he said specifically that made you feel that way. I don't remember verbatim, but it was it was like some real good, older dope legendary advice. But it was like it was coming from home, you

know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, it was. It's like if like Jesus really told about yourself, just like you got drunk in the club. I spoke to you, like, nigga, what you're doing. But it was something to the tune of like, you know, uh, like the beefs and ship that I was having early on in my career and ship like that probably just was unnecessary and my money talking. But you know, when you're young, you don't be trying

to hear that, you know what I'm saying. It's like if I was in the room with like I don't know, NBA young boy right now telling him to do this, and that it would probably go in one ear and one out there you know, and the other because he young and he and his he in it. Once you get older. That's why. That's what UH like, I hate a lot of times about hip hop as some of these artists they die before they get a chance to really grasp what it is that they need to enlife.

It's the untimely demises of bigginging pop too. You know them are the most notable. And if you think about being in pop and niggas was wearing suits and hard bottom shoes to the club and versachi and and dressing up like grown in and then think about years old though, so it's like, you know, to be snatching some of these pop artists off the planet before they get a

chance to mature. Um, me being forty two and looking at that, knowing it, seeing it, it's just like I'm looking the marry myself and I feel like totally blessed because that could have been me and fifty easily. Is that the reason why you decided to make a sequel for Start from Scratch? Um? I think that Start from

I don't really like sequels a lot. Sometimes when you do something so great uh originally and it is uh, you know, like world renowned and people really love it and appreciate it, that it should kind of be left alone. But I was feeling myself one night in this studio, in this room, and uh, I felt like there was

things that I needed to say. And so that was the song that you know that I that I said it on and I and I really I really liked that song and I really feel like when I when I hear it, I feel, um, I think about Prodigy, I when I hear that song. And so that's why I spoke, and it's the um you know, it's the getaway had. It gave me my first beat ever that I had from like a dope nigger in the game, and I held it until I got signed the aftermath, which is crazy, and me and Prodigy, you know, we

was always cool. He they started working with G Unit for a minute and then we fell off a little bit, obviously because of affiliation, but we got back right before he passed, and I was real uh happy about that, man,

because I was really my dupe. You said you in fifty like like, but the thing, the Unit thing when you joined them, like I wanted to get your perspective, like we hear about fifty hast the song ideas that you know, you you you build on and make, but what was your whole perspective, like getting recognized in the idea that you would join G UNIT at that time, UM,

for me to join G Unit, that was Jimmy Ivin's idea. Um, fifty was um dope enough to entertain the idea and allowed me to be a part of the group, which which was dope for me because I was still working on a documentary and you know, everybody knew who I was from like the early on mixtapes, but then I got you know me and that me and Ski in New Jersey Devil did. But but then I got on who Kid mixed tapes, and I started to get on Clue mix tapes and and and like, so fifty looked

out in that aspect. And plus it made sense. I was from the West coast. They had Bucky was from Nashville and Yayo Banks and fifty were from New York. So it kind of gave us that you know, that triangle of like the world and like America, because you had the West, you had to eat of the South, and so it only made sense. So it made sense

to him. It made sense to me because the Unit at that time was like running and fifty was on top of the World and then Dre got got to relax and work on finished Get Richard Trying, and then work on documentary while we were on tour and going around can Koon and spring Break and doing all that.

So yeah, when the conflict happened, like you know, you didn't want to go against Nas or Fat Joe people are cool with like you seem like the rest of the guys were all in for that type of stuff that you think that was gonna end up being a problem because you wasn't going to ride that way with you know what it was is, Um, that ship could have went either way because if me fifty and Banks and yeah Yo and Buck were friends outside of music, like it seemed that we were as like a group,

then I probably would have just rolled with the group. Um, but we were just artists. Like I just felt like I was game and I'm signed this unit. It wasn't like I was with them niggas every day or we was like breaking peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and half and something like that. Like we were just it was

a business. I was just in a group. I wasn't like with them niggas like you know you would think, Um, so when it came to you know, I think it was Flex asking me how I felt about you know, fifties Beef with Nas and Jada Kiss and Fat Joe. I'm like, yo, these as niggas that I was in a trap, Like I'm bumping these albums, like I know these niggas, and these albums have molded me to be who I am before I even knew of a fifty

like I was. I was running Nas and running Fat Joe and definitely running the Locks and Kiss and all of that ship. So I felt like, nah, I can't really do that because I was staying true to myself And if I was a weird um, just a weak bitch ass nigga, and I would have just been like, oh fuck the niggas I grew up listening to, like I don't have any times to them. But I really felt indebted to Nas and Joe, even Joe from all the way back to Digging in the Cratez, like I'm

a real hip hop niggers. So it was just Joe and Punn and all that ship was really the soundtrack to my to my my my teenagehood, and so I couldn't just turn my back on the music that inspired me. So that was where the conflicts started, right, speak of inspiration, obviously talked about dramatic playoff Illmatic. I read that, you know you have that title for a little dirt and yeah, well he he didn't use it, understand. I felt like, yeah, I talked to Dirk about it and he was like, yeah,

that's fire. I might funk with that, but like two years passed and he didn't do nothing with it. So I'm like, yo, I'm gonna just snatch that back real quick, because I really liked that title. Plus the you know, the New York drill, the Chicago drill, the London drill. I felt like it was a drill time. And I also wanted to make sure that anybody that was doing drill music or in the drill music knows that Illmatic existed.

And like, so I wanted to sort of mesh old cool a new school, and uh sort of put them together. So that's why when you listen to album, you know, you got your drill joints, you got your hip hop joints, um, you got up tempo, you've got some slow joints. You got chicks for the girls, You've got some East Coast Signership, Chicago.

I got the Herbo album. And that's all I've ever tried to do in hip hop and just bring it all together for everybody, so that when I dropped an album, you know, like you get everything, like if you get less and not to down nobody, but you know, if you get a certain album from the South, you get the South, you know what I'm saying, and you just got to appreciate it in that aspect, And that's cool too. But for me, I like to cover on basis like I like to cover New York. I got Cam on

the album, got five Ye on the album. So if you're from New York and you funk with them and you funk with me, and you funk with New York, I mean that songs for you. If you're from the Shy and you funk with me and you love g Herbo and you like Wayne and you got you know what I'm saying, Chrome Slug. So it's just like I'm always trying to try to do that. So that's why when you look at my albums and you see multiple features. Number One, I'm a fan of many artists. I've always

been that. I came into it. I only start rapping like when I was like twenty years old, so you know, I hadn't been wrapping my whole life. Never wanted to be a rapper. I was hoping the gangbanging. But um, so, I've always been a fan of nigga you know, of rap niggas. So when I do my albums and I hear a beat, I'd be like, yo, so and so will sound good on this, and I reach out and of course on me, so like niggas get down with me. And and every time they, you know, step it up.

Um two Chains came in here and we did uh you know, no man falls and he was just like every and the niggas do this a lot when they get in on it, like I gotta wrap tonight, I gotta really rap tonight. And so when he laid his verses, I let him go first. You know what I'm staying. And sometimes most times I'll write mine first because I know, like I'm lyrical, I know where I'm gonna go with it. But Chains got off first, and he just was so

proud of like his bars. And we were seeing that mother going crazy because I was I was telling my niggas like yo, Chains could really if he pushed to the limit, he could really go there, and he did on the album. So yeah, man, I'll just be a fan. So a lot of features, a lot of you know, name drops always gonna be the name dress one thing

that I've got doing the album. When I put out the track listening, I was gonna literally count the name drops myself and put a disclaimer under, like just so you know, there are three hundred and seventy seven name drops. I just wanted to know, like, how do you feel about that? You know that's off the criticism throughout your

career the game name drops too much. I think that if you listen to hip hop, everybody and every album that everybody name drops now and before I came, niggas wasn't doing it at the you know, in like in the space that they are now. But everyone name drops. It's it's wordplay, is lyricism, it's metaphors, and everybody has adapted to it. I'm the one that you know gets all the flat four, but I love it, like I'll be I'll be saying his names like I want you

to know exactly what I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying, Like it's if the car black and they calm it gets Also, what the title this is like a subtitle Heart Versus Mind? Can you explain the meaning behind that? All right? So again this is this is a beautiful part about the album that, Um, I'm glad

that I'm here explaining uh to YouTube. Um. It goes hand in hand with drill madic right because NAS has always been um, very very lyrical, lyrically poetic and unapologetically black and militant and five percenter and all of that, all of the good things that we loved about hip hop, the public enemy aspect of it, right, the Q tip aspect of it, all of that, the roots, um, and you know, on the other side you have you know, the drill. And so the drill was straight street straight.

You know, you know what it is, man, It's it's it's Drake goes and mayhem. You know what I'm saying. So, um, Heart versus Mind is simply this is. I got three children. I love them to death, love them to death. And so when I with my kids, man, I'm like, you know, I'm holding my daughter's hand and I got on, you know, my my shorts and my white tea and I'm just out having a good day and I ain't got no gun on me. I ain't got no nothing on me. I'm just enjoying my day with my daughter and I'm

I'm peaceful and I'm at peace. At the same time, I live in a city that is uh, you know, took took the air out of Biggie's lungs and killed Nipsey and killed Pop Smoke And even though Pop died in Vegas, that was some l A ship. So I'm very aware of where I'm from what niggas do here when they're agitated and they're angry, and um, it's wolves out here. So that is that is my mind, my mom. Like I know, I'm very very aware of what goes down to l A. So I just can't not be

ready for war, you know what I'm saying. And I don't want to be. I don't I don't want to add no, I don't want to be for nobody, and I don't want to be having to, you know, cock my gun in the light because it's two AM and I'm coming home from the club and I don't trust niggas based off of the history of violence in this city. And at the same time that might be a Saturday night. In the next morning, I might get up and go

to church with my mama. But do would make me any less gangster or any less of a good father Because my heart is at war with my mind. I feel like that is everybody, especially with everything going on disease wise, and I've seen, you know, the fiery crash, you know, and in mid City the other day, and everything going on with these mass shootings and all that. It's like we are all every human on this earth that has a heart and has a mind is a war every day with how they feel about certain things.

We got people that you know, don't want to take vaccines. We've got people that want to take vaccines. We've got women who are pro abortion and women who you know, are on the other side of that. It's just so much war going on and internally with every single human that it only felt right that I make my album heart versus Mind, because I don't want to get caught up in that. I don't want to be, you know, stigmatized with the oh he always changed in his mind,

or I just want to be human. Like if I put on this outfit and I'm look in the mirror and it don't look right, and I go back and put on a different outfit, Like I am I allowed to be human, you know what I'm saying. I don't want people to be to anybody why and this to feel like they have to be a certain way, and it's just not okay to change your mind, you know what I'm saying. And I want people to follow their heart and not get not let the waves in their

brain confused the signals that are coming from God. So I just want everybody to be at their best and be at peace. But if you've got to go to war to save your life for the livelihood of your family, you must do that right. It makes me think of

universal love. The way you close the album, you know, everything is calculated, man, And that's why I wanted that to be at the end of the album because even after all everything that happened and everything that transpired in this uh, you know, within the confines of you know, the structure of the album, I wanted to end it with love. I just wanted to end it with love. And so you know, uh brought in Janet and Cassie did so Dope during the intro um and Chloe Bailey

and you know, Breezy gonna do his thing, man. But I again, I love uh s w V growing up, you know what I'm saying. And and the same thing with the with Janet and Q Tip and that whole Joni Mitchell vibe. So I just felt like that was just a dope song to an album with and I really love that song. I love to shoot a video to that. There's still some hate though, man, Like on Twister you talk about you still don't funk with your brother, but you made up with your sister. Yeah, why is that? Um,

it's just family, familieship. Yeah, it's just famili shit. It's uh, you know, Uh, it's we are indifferent about a lot of things. And I don't know if you know, will ever be mented. But at the same time, I got brothers that are not blood that are my brothers too. And sometimes you you know, in life, and it's tragic when it has to be a cane and able type

of situation. But um, at this point that's pretty much what that is, so big you're so I just leave it there and and it's it's And I still wish him and his family peace and all that, because, like I said, it's a it's a hard versus mind thing with me and and currently sitting in this chair right now, I don't wish harm or any type of weird negative vibes on anybody on like into anybody's lives on earth,

because I'm at peace, you know what I'm saying. And me saying that I still don't funk with him is the truth. It's not a lie. I don't so, but it doesn't mean that, you know, I don't have an ample amount of love in my heart for him and and and you know his family and all that. I just with some peace, But I'm gonna do it from like over here. How disappointed at you that this Dipsey Hustle collapse didn't make the album? Like what happened? Um?

I think I don't know, man, I just I don't know, Like I don't clear the samples, and like I said, we had a lot of sample uh sample trouble. I just know, Um, if Nip was here, there's no way that he wouldn't be on the game album. Um. And I don't know what happens with who owns whatever, and I don't I don't even want to get into that somebody didn't clear it. But that's cool, though I'm not. I'm not even mad at it. I understand because, like I said, everyone's gotta do what they gotta do for

the betterment of you know, their situation. But the albums incredible. Still, um Nipp's birthday, you know what I'm saying, Love him with love him, love him to death. All is gonna love him from the first time that I met him, when the world didn't know who he was, and I did. For God, yo, I swear man. I literally pulled up on that man and then brought him to the studio and took you know him on tour and showed him, you know, the ropes of the you know, the beginning

stages of hip hop. And I again, I hate that he's not here. And then he died in the city. And so yeah, my heart versus my mind still because I made it to forty two and that ship. It's not easy here. Yeah, there was a line you said on Liveland, like how you wish both of you guys died,

Like do you feel like you died? When that I feel like a part of me did because he was the opposite, rag version of what I was, even though I'm you know, uh However, many years older like Nip came and he serviced uh that little small gap that Snoop left open for the next you know, uh Crip in l a that was gonna come to prominence on the hip hop scene. What was that like for you to be that the guy that broke the West Coast, to be that West Coast superstar like at that time

with documentary, it was it was overwhelming. It was I opening because I had a had a I had a way that I thought rapping hip hop was and the industry was. And I was like a little bit heartbroken when I came in and I saw like that it wasn't as real as I thought it was. I think my first I think my first uh, my first instance where I felt like I was in a video game was when I went to the BT Awards and when I went to the bathroom and came back, it was models in my seat to fill my seat for the camera.

I was like, oh, this ship is like okay, all right, um, And then you know other instances, but man, for the most part, like I really just came in trying to tell my story. I didn't know. I never thought that I was gonna be as big as I was. I set up, I had goals. My goal was to get me an apartment that was a little bit far from confident so I could have some peace, um because I hadn't known that up until that point. Um. And to get an escalator. I want to escalate so bad, and

I just wanted to. I want to put that more fun on some twenty twos, and I wanted to I want the tires to go flat, and I wanted some Internet so I could like play madd And that's all those are my Those are my goals, like literally my whole hip hop goals. I wasn't trying to be no legend. I wasn't trying to carry West Coast. I was literally just trying to be like comfortable in life and have an escalator so I could just dip through all black chrome rims. That just that would have did it for me. Man,

I could have stopped there and been cool. You ever, fully, even processing like you're making this album with Dre like the final like mixing and all that type of stuff, are you thinking like this album is gonna change the world.

When you're at that stage of it. I knew the album was dope, and I was too uh, it was too premature for me uh in my rap career because I didn't know much about Like I still didn't know much about like the format, the song format when I when I signed a DR DRE, I didn't know that you had to stop at sixteen bars for that to be a regular formula diverse, and I thought the hook was like some ship you throw at a fish, or

like Nigga boxing. I know I sound like idiotic, but I'm here and so if you thinkape so look, if you ever heard my mixtapes before I was signed an aftermath, I was just wrapped for so long. That's why I'm known for a hundred bars because nigger I did not know when to stop and so my bo so I'm freestyle and and and Nigga is on the East Coast thinking that there's a freestyle, but for real, my hook in there somewhere. But I know you're supposed to bring it back any times. Like I just didn't know a

song for Matt Man. And when I actually learned, I looked back and I kind of appreciated all my freestyles, but I felt like I felt like an asshole for not knowing song format. You know, but that was just how much of a project baby I was. Would you talk about your legacy? I saw he tweeted one time you said, you don't know how many favorite West Coast artists you had a hand and putting on you'd ask

for no finders feeding things like that. Who are some of those artists that you feel like you don't get enough credit for? Um, it's not it's not so much about like I found you or I did it, but like I definitely was there for you know, Top Dog and Kendrick and and and and Jay rocking them all

that whole movement. Um, I used to be in like I was, you know the documentaries I would I used to be in at Top Dog's house, uh, with my homie Tommy tom in uh, you know, in top Dog Studio, just you know, fly on the wall and getting an input top Dog to tell you all this ship. And then you know Nip. I pulled up on Nip, you know, numerous times on Crenshaw before he was rapping, and then actually um when he started rapping, when he actually had

a CD. Before that, it was just pulling up and seeing him out there selling and hustling, doing whatever he had to do. Um, but yeah, man, you know, uh glasses Malone, early stages and glasses and like a lot man like Simba been rising lately having I've been having Simba in here, and he'd been doing the ship. I had him in my show. I let him get that freestyleg off. But and it's not so much of me like letting or saying I did this. It's just so

much that I've always been an open book. You know Ty Dollar Sign when he was doing you know, the whole jerk thing and all of that, before you know it was popping popping, I was in the studio with Ty and just always been an open My door always been opened for anything on the West Coast to just come through and soak some game up or just catch a vibe. I've always been that guy, man, And I've always really really really looked out for people. And I

don't need I don't need nothing for it. Like the niggas, everybody know what it is. With me, it seems like a little bit reluctant to embrace this like legend status is like gonna talk to me nice, you say how you Grahamy nominated for a million records? So but that's not what a legend is so I assume you're talking about yourself. So what is a legend you don't consider yourself for on the legend I can well, I do. I do consider myself a legend, but not for the

reasons that most people my consider themselves a legend. Number One, before I was ever a rapper, like, I was already a legend in my hood for the various things that I did around there. Um and then just my heart, like I got a legendary heart just just for helping people in and putting people on. Everybody around me has enough room to flourish and make something out of that existence.

And um, that that is legendary. To be a father, To have a kid in college right now, just leaving in two weeks to go back to college and him making it out his first year, that is legendary. There's so many young African American men. And when I say young, I mean under the age of fifty, right, because if you know, we live into a hundred that at a hundred years old at having a good life, that fifty would be the middle So that's still fairly young. Eight

year old man. Ain't gonna look at the fifth year old man to call him an old man. So um, just to be on earth still, to be standing, to be you know, all my limbs, to be working and and just be able to wake up every day, breathe

appreciate and still do. Legendary ship on every level and in the aspect of my life as legendary to me, it ain't so much about the music being legendary, and music is critiqued by fans and the powers that be, And uh, you know, I feel like I've I feel like I've really sustained a very illustrious hip hop career over the last twenty years. It's just or ten albums and I don't put out I don't put out trash.

I put out complete bodies of work, and I get my fans what they deserve every single time, give or take a few little down moments. But I put out classics. And to be putting out another classic, this album, this Dramatic Ship is a classic, and putting out a classic twenty years later after putting out a classic is sucking outstanding And as some legendary ship, you work with another legend hit boy who's executive produced on Dramatic Did you want to use other producers instead of relying just on

the hit Boy man hit Boy. When you do when hit Boy do album, ain't nobody producing on the album except hit Boy, just know that. But hit Boy we had a hit Boy got a good rapport with you know, my other my other producers, you know, Big Dude and Chill Chiller, um and this uh Davon and so we we we we keep a family atmosphere, you know what I'm saying that. So hit was just all the way down with you know, executive producing an album and allowing you know what I'm saying and being down with other

producers doing a thing. There was never a point where he was like, I can't do this. We had a conversation about it. He like, yo, you know I usually don't even you know, yeah, produced albums that have other producers on it. Um yeah, and as rightfully so as hit Boy. But um with me, I think again, I funk with him at the early stages of his career too, and we did work way back in the day. So it's it's that love, you know what I'm saying that

I spent me and hit Boy pops. We we you know, we down um so loved the big hit and UM yeah, man like, it's just always a good family vibe with me. So yeah, hit Boy came in and we did our things, but he overseen everything that I did, and if it wasn't up to par or he didn't like the song, he said it and we snatched it because at the

end of the day, it was a hip boy. He could do six officially, but you're saying his hands was on everything Head Boy did about I don't know thirty songs, but you know, for the format and and the UM basically, you know what I was doing with the album, dramatic and hard versus mind like and in the sample clearances like, we put on the album the thirty best songs that we thought would fit UM and they jailed together and

I feel confident that we did an amazing job. Drake with the praise, didn't make no joke, came through with sixteen bars and excuses. You know what that look, that was a good voice. That voice memo, That was a real voice memo. Yeah that. But see, one thing about Drake Man is like, that's that's my dog man he he um. If you haven't ever met him, man, that's he one of the most humble, coolest billionaire airs that don't even want to be known as a billionaire that

you've ever gonna meet. I got nothing but love for Drake. Every time we see each other. It feels brotherly him, Chubb, Forty, the whole, you know, Nico, all those guys. Man, those are all my guys. And I'm definitely riding for Drizzy because was one of my favorite video and Compton like yeah, he was like man, yeah, man, Drake came. I ain't out for a day. I read an I g post to that you for this album. You pulled over on Librea to right round. You said you haven't done that love. Man.

I have to read that since like the documentary or something. Uh yeah, I wrote I don't need your love in the car like that, um in Beverly Hills and the Wiltshire Corridor, And I told myself when I wrote it, I was like, man, I'm gonna get one of these condos after my album dropped and I end up doing that. Um but yeah, I pulled over on the bread one day because I was just like, I just gotta stop and write this now, go all the way home. I'm

probably gonna not be in a move, you know. Um So I stopped, and you know, people came by and he was honking, and you know, but yeah, I got it done. And I literally because I had been struggling with writing the verses for that for like a week, because I couldn't figure out how I wanted to approach it, because I didn't want to leave anything out. Um, I wanted to make sure that I had all of the current events in there, the Vality thing and then the Buffalo ten and all of that, and like I needed

to pull over and get that off. And by the time I was there for like two or three hours, and after I left, I had the song done and came straight here and did it. That's one thing I noticed about the album, like it seems very relevant, like heart versus My Ofference, that's my favorite one of them recorded yesterday because you have like Beyonce references and like a little controversial kind of Yeah. Well, I told I had a conversation with Mustard about being a part of

the album because I like this West Coast. I'd like to, you know, bring in as many West Coast powerhouses as I can. So Mustard was like, yo, when hit me in the fourth quarter, and I'm gonna just give you one beat and he was like, wanted to be the title track, and I was like all right, and he then so I explained the concept to him and uh, I told him what it was and he held he held that beat for me and he gave it to me.

And I came in on the last day that I could record, on the last day that Jason Joshua was gonna mix anything, and uh so that's why everything in there is just so so current and uh and it was dope because the album was coming out the next you know, next Friday, and I got to uh service um Brittany Grinder and there the way that I wanted to um and I got to get everything that was, you know, on my mind that night in real time

out in the next week. So that was dope. I know, I want to know what's on your mind with you and them. And then then the Black Slim Shady what's the reason for going that eminem um just because nobody does number one number two? I pissed off a lot of people with that song. Uh, you know, M got

a lot of stands. But as far as like it being personal, like it's not personal, like you know, I like I came up on them too, Like I remember the first time that you know, Hi my name is you know came out, I was like whoad by it. I felt the same feeling when I heard that that I felt when I heard Juicy from Big the first time.

You know what I'm saying. Like when Juicy came out, I was in the tenth grade and I was walking out to lunch and they would play music in the quad area and that ship came on and niggas didn't know who or what the funk that was, but we never heard a sound like that in my life. And so when I heard high my name is Slim Shady, um, I felt the same way. So yeah, you know, I always funked with him, and then you know the whole

aftermath and the shady thing, and he was on the documentary. Um, I think me and fifties fallout kind of made him choose aside and he wasn't doing that ship that I did. He like, I'm going with fifty niggas. But but but I just felt like, you know, I had some emotions, you know a little bit about like the super Bowl ship and all of that, and then you know that's

like Drey's Boy and Drey don't wrap. So it's like, you know, if I want to, you know, have a conversation with Dre or I'm mad at Dre, like let me poke shots to eminem and then fifty can't out wrap me. So it's just like, you know, he's doing his TV thing, and you know, more power to him. The shows are great, but as far as like rap ship, like I got that locked, and so the only person that I could rap with or try to poke the bear and see if like he really want to, you know,

go there is him. Because it's it's him. So you understand why people might call you out on your hypocrisy because they put out You put out a list like a lot last year about your favorite rappers or type rappers and was like at number four, So people are

just kind of questioning, Yeah, that that's cool. But as and and I mean, you're laughing, but we had already covered this when I said my heart be at world my mind and so it's yours and I'm pretty sure there is you know, uh an m c out that you might have thought was number one at one time, that is not your favorite anymore. It's just is what it is. And then another thing is that, Like again, it's the it's the Floyd Mayweather and you know, Mom

and Ali thing. It's like, if he's number four and I feel like I'm number one for me, why wouldn't I just take a shot or challenge everybody in the top ten? Why why not? When you are on the boxing level when I love boxing and I love the competitive nature of it, and I also love the rankings

and how you rise up. If you met Floyd Mayweather when you were you know, coming up in the Olympics and then you ended up, you know, being undefeated, and now you have a chance to fight him, you're gonna turn down the fight because you're a fan or you're gonna not Are you not training to be better than Floyd Mayweather? If if he is undefeated fifty and oh, I mean, what are we doing? It wasn't it's with with him, you know specifically, It wasn't a personal thing.

It's just that, like, you know, I did it with Hope when I was younger. Sometimes you shoot shots, but hip hop gotta be interesting these niggas these days, and

so goddamn boring. Or every time somebody want to be or every time somebody want to be somebody gotta die or some ship, like I don't get that, like what happened to just like you know mc shannon, like krsive is still alive, both of them, and it was just like you know, the bridges over these days might get nigga shot the funk up, you know what I'm saying. But you don't always gotta be like that. Sometimes ladies and gentlemen is just hip hop and you can leave

it at that. It's like if I see them, I'm not fighting eminem like you know. So it's just even the last top you had a song called the Light, I felt like you was challenging people like step up to take the light, like I think Young wants an opponent.

You want to I always want to appall. I always want to opponent, and right now, like you know, Lyrically, um, outside of like um, I don't know, maybe like m or Kendrick or Cole or you know, one of these super lyrical niggas, Like I don't think nobody like lyrically can really go with me, you know what I'm saying.

Then outside of the lyrics, like I'm really with the ship too, So it's like, you know, it's just I don't know, but yeah, my favorite and my favorite MC as far as lyrically like lyrical ability goes like right now and been that way and the nigga you really don't I want to really piss off or go there with his Wayne. Yeah, Wayne is Wayne different and that's my brother. You can say there was a great moment when you put him out in your show in l A that and he just went like he took the

shirt off. He wasn't the full concert mode like it was insane. I gonna do that if he feels you know, if he if he loves you man, And that's and Ea too. You know what I'm saying. Those are my dudes, man, and I'm really indebted to both of them because Wayne never told me no for nothing, and neither of you. Yeah, I want to go back to DR's advocate and like, people don't realize that if you look at your career. Obviously your longevity celebrated now, but you know you face

to me adversity. The only thing I think probably similar would be when ice Cube left in w A right where it's like you're not longer down with the unit, no more you beat with fifty. They take you off after math and you gotta go figure it out, right, doctor's advocate, like talk about putting that process together. And like I remember the coach here at the time, there was a lot of doubting of you that you could

do this. Yeah, anybody that doubted me after the documentary was a fool, because I really did that album by myself for the most part. I think the last fourth quarter I went to Connecticut and Mike Tyson's old house the fifty had, and and then we did the few songs that um Me and fifty did. But I had already had how we do um written and recorded. I had Hated Love It written and recorded from I got

that you know beat from Cool Andre. I had that written on the way and I remember right now in the sprinter in the snow going to Connecticut, UM and fifty is like, uh, hook genius here, melody genius. So when I got there with the beats, um like he just put his melodic tone and his verses on the songs and he did his thing, because we were unstoppable once we dropped them songs like that ship was just the perfect icing on a fucking on a hip hop cake. And so I'm I'm ever, I'm forever indebted to him

for that moment that we created. Um, he asked whole he did. He do a lot of boy ship, and but so do I. And so that's why it was like, that's why it's always gonna be a game and fifty thing. And I would think that press conference, but you know what fifty fifty was. He was genuine on that day and I was still an asshole. He was now he was way more genuine, way more mature than me here a little bit older than me too. And but the but see, one thing about fifty fifty always understood the uh,

the business aspect from the beginning. I came in not really giving a funk about nothing, Like I didn't care about I just didn't give a funk about paperwork and business and what this. Uh, if I did this, it was gonna sunk up this deal fifty was doing even but like from vitamin water like the early days, uh, the g unit clothing like this nigger was on it business watch from the beginning. So he knew what that

press conference was gonna do. He knew he knew that it would suck up if we didn't get it right, that there would suck up money and uh, I didn't care, and so you could see the look on my face. And if you really look at fifty, you can tell that he was genuine and I commend him for that on that day to um, but from then to now, like you know, fifty fifty, no man, he asshole man. He did a lot of asshole ship. But with DRS Advocate, you're not getting no Dre beats though, like you approach

making that album. Uh, before I knew Dre, I have a Dre beat. The reason that Dre signed me was because I was dope without a Dre beat and so uh not taking away from his mastermindus or anything that he's ever done for me, because Dre is nigga Dr Dre like Dre put the stamp on you. You know what it is. Um, he did it for Kendrick, he did it for Pockety, did it for Snoopy, did it for him, he did it for fifty. Nigga Dr Dre is always gonna be Dr Dre. And for me, he's like, um,

what what Quincy Jones was too soul music? Like it's it's Dre. So you got these guys like you got Quincy Jones, you got the line of Richies, you got the Doctor Dre's, you got the Farrells, the Timberlins, the Swiss Beats, and now you you know the hit boys, and there's a lot of you know, a slew of producers.

I'm leaving out, but you get what I'm saying when I when I when I say that, like Dre is Dr Dre, it will never be another Doctor Dre m and you you would want to have him um as a part of anything that you're doing, versus not having him. So it wasn't my choice. It was just my attitude's choice.

And now, um the label Interscope and Jimmy Iveen, Doug, Doug Morrison and Universal had to ride with the nigga who was bringing the you know, moving the real units um and documentary so well, but get Richard trying was you know some other ship um and not And nobody did that until I mean nobody had did that since Eminem over there. So yeah, they had to ride with fifties. So I went to New York by myself and I

was in Sight. I was in Sony Studios and I recorded my most West Coast album in Sony Studios at the bottom and had Nas come through and Buster and we got in Jamie Fox and we got that song. I mean, we got that album done, and uh, it was just because I was so on it to prove that I don't need these niggers, because I really didn't and even know and I hate to sound like that, but I never just needed anybody outside of like my father in life, like I don't need niggas. I will adapt.

It's dope to have niggas, and it's dope to like do it in a group being you know, have a group effort and and be and have iconic heads around to make it better. But if I don't got nobody nigga, I'm still gonna get it done. Like I'm a man at the end of the day, and I'm gonna get

it done. You thought that was One Blood, Like I was mad as the motherfucker when I did One Blood, man, And I remember this, uh the bet I brought to me and it was on a beat c D with like um dirty beats on it, and one Blood was the last beat. And I don't even know why I listened all the way through, because usually I'll be like I skipped, you know, and I'll be like, a, yeah, cool, I just might have to just pick cuter because I

don't want to hurt the nigger feelings. But my dog Reef came with One Blood and uh I recorded my fucking like four minutes four like literally winning there and damn down their freestyle diverse and then she pulled it off with all those artists because that's what I do. You know what I'm saying. It's always popped out because once I got a few niggers on, I'm just like, nah, he get him, get bro. I just got everybody on it.

That song was so big. I mean I used to walk in the club with Jones um in New York. We go Brooklyn, Harlem, we go Bronx, we go everywhere. Joe took me out to the the club and the Bronx one time and we're just that ship was going up, man Like One Blood was like that really gave me my New York just experience that I'll never forget those times. Man, That's why I love New York the way I do

staying in New York. Man on save the Best for Last on this new album, we talk about you wanted to run up a fabulous um it wasn't that I wanted to. It was just that like I was a hood nigga from l A and out here nigga we like niggas rob niggas. So um, I had no id saw. I had saw Fab outside of this hotel to learn mantage um and he was just standing there and me and my nigga was like we used to just wait outside of hotels and see who we could. You know, Rob,

are you game at this point? Like are you are you a rapper? Are you Like I'm like just starting to rap. I ain't nothing worthy. You know, you're not signed or anything like that. No, I'm not signed like that and so um, and you know, we wasn't trying to like, you know, hurt nobody. Nigga just running niggas

for Jews. And I'm not saying that like Fab ain't no punk or nothing like that, but um, he was just he was standing out there and you know what I'm saying, I'm like, you know, my nigga was just like, oh, that's Fab right there. And because I'm like, I'm gonna tell you what happened because it was fat and I had listened to motherfucking Superman Little Mold Superman and I couldn't know nig gets to be laughing. But I'm telling when I tell these stories, it's it's literally like slum

Dog Millionaire. You ever seen that movie. Moments in my life that like just are really just dominant as far as like remembrance that like keet me from doing fun sometimes. So I was like, nah, nig I set up in my fucking trap spot and watched this nigga get this ship off on his most song, on his little most song and his video on one or six in Park, and that's somewhere I strived to be. So I just

I can't. I can't work with that if you had conversation and so um, what happened was once I actually met Fab through my nigga T Mills Um Tracy Mills and uh, you know because the nigga used to wear the jersey all the time. And so once I met Fab, I'm like, Nigga, this ship crazy, like he don't even know like I had, I had to drop and and and anybody could have had to drop on anybody. This nigga. He was in l A, I'll be in New York. Niggas feel like they got to drop I'm out of

my envelope. Niggas, could you know? I had to drop. But but after that, me and Fab became friends. We did the Compton Versus Brooklyn mix tape with Clue, and then I went to New York and Fab was the first nigga I've ever seen in the Bentley coup ever ever nigga was in Brooklyn and the Bentley Coop. We went up to, uh the roof and we're just chilling. I think he might have been shooting, like the I

can't remember what video you shooting something. But I just felt like, Damn, this nigga really getting money, you know what I'm saying that, And in my back, in the back of my mind, I was always like, damn, I'm so glad that, you know, I made a decision that I made because I was really up, you know, a fan So yeah, man, that's funny because Ross is on that same record, Uh say the Best for Last, and you said you kind of would have got a Ross

too at one point. No, no, I said that. After I said the fan ship, I was like, we became friends, and so I said, I bought some shelves and some chalk too for opening up doors. That cost him may back just to walk through, meaning that I got my niggas back, now you know what I'm saying. So yeah, I do want to know what happened at Drey's crip on Labor Day weekend? Though what I remember on Russ's project on Chump Too, you said, act Ray, what I

happened to his crib on Labor Day weekend? Oh yeah, yeah, man, we're gonna, we're gonna say that. One man said, I haven't. Now we're gonna we're gonna say that. With man, I'll be an open book. Except yeah, yeah man. Next going back to five, He's one of these rappers game that maddened me to this day because I didn't get him a double XL cover. He gave me about four covers. Man. I wanted to see if you have any memories. I

know every right here. This was shot in l A. We shot this in l A. This is a proud moment. I remember how how how how much sweat this bandanna was catching. What I'm saying it was it was hot as hell in his jacket, it was it was like a sunny day too. But then on the whole coat and uh, you'll remember this day man, and uh, yeah, this was dope for me, man, real dope. I'm gonna tell you my version of it. I had a ludicrous I was trying to do a ludicrous CHANI cover, yeah,

because that'd be for Luda. For some reason, they agreed to do that. But then they said they insisted after we had the meeting to say they had to ask Shauna to it. So I told them, ff them, and then I have no cover. Then I'm looking at all hip hop and they're like saying even busting rhyme signed. In the aftermath, I'm like, fox, I make the call. I called him. Drey says yes, but he's like, you gotta put my nigg in the game on the cover. Oh that's hard. So I was like and then, um,

you was g Unit. So drear the gunit shirt the police fifty at the time. That's why Drey's went a g Unit T shirt from the cover. Oh that's dope, you know that's that's that's some real doctor with snoop. I don't think I got permission. I just went for it. Yeah. I wasn't together, right, your guys weren't together for that. I don't think it was shot. I believe I think they shot Snoop and then shot me, and but we

both knew probably had Snoop. But I love Snoop. But but I wouldn't know if it was hot enough at the time and you were shaking off, I was like, yeah, no, no, this is one of This is a moment where I really felt like I was really doing something because I got to stand next to next to dog and uh,

Snoop is is number one in my book. And you know, it's not even like you know who, like who your favorite rapper or who your favorite lyricists, or who your favor No, Snoop is just my favorite human in hip hop. It's the realist nigga that I ever met in hip hop, in wrapped and damn there in life that nigga stayed tintoes down on everything and stand everything. He stands on everything, man, and he don't never change for nobody. He don't get

in the middle. I mean, you know what I'm saying, Like Snoop just stayed right, he'd be like, Yo, I funk with you, and I funk with you and y'all gotta get y'all ship together because because ye right, you know, But like Na man Snoop is my big brother and my aunt and I love him. I got too many covers, man, you know the butterfly though, yeah, the butterfly will give

me that one. No. I wastched out over the story with the butterflies that my dad wrote this poem for my grandmother called the Butterfly, And so I always wanted to get a butterfly like tatter somewhere because that poem meant a lot to me. Um. And then I went to Cincinnati and I saw this nigga. This nigga looked like this nigga looked like he just broke out of jail from doing like three life sentences, and he had a big butterfly on his on his face like right here,

but it was huge. And I was like, I had been hesitant to get mine because I was like gonna say. And so then I went to New York and uh, I was doing one of sixty parking and after that I think I had t r L. But I had like a few hours break. So I went to the tattoo shop, just walked into one and I told him that I wanted the butterfly, and this nigga, like dinner, gave me a month on my ship. And so that's why it wasn't that I wanted to cover the butterflies,

just that ship. It wasn't butterfly. So I damned there, Like I just covered it up, man and put the l A over and it worked out. But came now to compare to today, you know what people are getting? Yeah, facts the same ship, Ye, the l A last one out? Yeah at the l A it out. Yeah, I remember this, this shot in l A two Yeah, um yeah right here,

I remember that. Yeah, the one where I was holding the gun up like this that wouldn't do't look all that was good, but only did shout out double cell a lot now just to get me high because we wasn't number one yet. That was the part of like being in the unit that like you know, fifty wasn't sucking buns on him and who was the day mays? Yeah, fifty wasn't working with them and so and I wasn't working with him because like they wasn't giving niggas like

on the West, like five mikes for real. And I really at that time, like getting five mics in the source was like there's a big deal. That was the biggest deal. And so being an upcoming rapper, like I really wanted five mics in the source, so really want them. Niggas really didn't get me fire mics and I was like, I ain't nigga real, but yeah, you can have those games I watched off you want. Oh yeah, yeah that's dope. Man. Since we're talking about covers, manum on the Dramatic. The

cover features my homegirl Britney Sky. She's braiding your hair on the burning couch. Can you explain that significance of the art direction? Well? Um, so basically U um, like my heart, it's in the hood forever. Even if even though I can't be in confident for obvious reasons, like you know it just I would just be making niggas feel bad. Like I can't just pull my lambow up park on the block and let it sit there and make everybody. Some niggas gonna feel like motivated from it.

Other nigga's gonna feel like this nigg is showing off and like you know what happens like when So I can't be there every day, but my heart is always there. So that's why I'm getting my hair braided on the couch because it's like that's what niggas would do in

the trap. You know what I'm saying, That's what I I would get my hair braided on the couch, um, And so I had Brittany do it because I wanted to make sure that it was, um, a woman that was beautiful and strong and that you know, with somebody that I respected. And I also wanted to her to dress up like I wanted us to dress formal, because

that is where my mind is. Like I'm I'm older now, forty two, be in business meetings with you know, with suits on, and so even though I'm a hood and they're gonna getting my hair braided on this couch, that will be in a dope spot. I'm dressed up like I'm going to a business meeting, which represents you know where I am as far as like my business ventures these days. Um. And then being by the beach is that's my mind all the way. That's where my mind

wants to be. My mind wants to be as free as the ocean man, just flowing and just I want my thoughts to just be everlasting. I don't never like you go to the beach man, the ocean just goes back calm and comes up rushing since Earth has been here and it's gonna be there after all of us perish. And so that's why the ocean means that much to me.

And the last thing that I want to do for myself, Um, the last goal I have in life, uh, for myself is to buy me a beach house and just wake up every day and just hear that sound, man, because that's really how free um and how at peace I want to be um towards the you know, later stages of my life. Man, you gotta respect the growth man, right, No, man,

we're not doing that that Yeah, that's real. Bro. Why do you slap your mother's because they would just always come like pressing, like my mom for the renting like if she I mean, she didn't have it for obvious reasons. She was trying to harm. My mom worked a few different jobs, and my postles in and out of jail um San Quentin Folsom County jail, like just in and

out um from miscellans different ship um years at the time. Man. Uh, this nigga, Mr Brown would always be sucking with my mom's man, and I don't like now that I'm older, it's like, nigga, did you like her? And he's just trying to, you know, like you like a girl at school. You're coming every day, she told you next Friday, nigga. And now I'm older and I'm on, I'm on, I'm out of the Foster Home and I'm back with my mom. So I'm just like at that point, I was like

I wouldn't even my mom's son no more. For real. I was kind of like just gang banging and not the baby that she knew. Because when I went to Foster Home, I was in the third grade and when I got out that I was in the ninth grade. So by that time, um, six years being away from your mom and being in a different you know environment, Um, I just rebelled and I was straight got out like

just a straight gangster. So I was with all the ship and I really I love my mom and I love my sisters, and any type of disrespect was gonna get met with violence. Fuck you, Mr Brown? Yeah, Mr Brown, probably chilling right now. You know my heart, man, my heart, not my mind right now once again respected that that that young man was was a wild young man. So man, yeah, man,

I'm a lot more. Uh, I wake up every day and these days and I'm just at peace and I and I don't really funk with nobody besides himinem on this album. You know what I'm saying. But but we we explained what that was. Man, last question before we get out of the game, are you really the man

behind Demi Levado success? Have to rehab this guy? I'm just asking you know, Demi, Demi is a dem is a good friend of mine, and we had some we had a lot of a lot of talks about like depression and drugs and rehab and how to fight back. And yeah, I've been there for and Um in some times where she needed to be lifted and uh we you know, we talked about it and we did it. And I'm proud of her Um for where she is now versus where she was when she was in her

darker days. You know, she she dope. Good to know. Game. Thank you, brother, We appreciate you being the yeah man. Salute the game man. Yeah, there we go, rap right on podcast. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, thank you. That's gonna be good. I'm listening to lys, I'm listening to the music. Yeah. Rap.

Rador is The Interval presents original production from Hyper House produced by Laura Wasser, Hosting producers Elliott Wilson and Brian B. Dot Miller from Interval Presents executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg, executive producer Paul Rosenberg, Recording engineer Jeremy Ogletree, Editing and sound design by Mike Dorsey, Operations Lead Sarah You, Business Development Lead cheff E ellens Wegg, and Marketing Lead Samara Still. Listen on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.