Rap Radar: Rich Paul

Maybe you got my things on our side. Yeah, well I could represent you. Timing is important and what time better than now? Right? Years? The time? And it's ten years. Man, that's a little Lobos hit. Man. We tossed up real quick Cluch Sports Group and its tip year ten years. I can't believe it's ten me either, that's crazy. So it is the hype real man, Like what to me

do you look at it? Whatuch Sports Group? And you know, Rich Paul, this disruptive person in this space, like like, how do you look at it now in perspective of like now you have something so established right at the same time, it still feels like you're constantly shaking the game up. Yeah, I just think that, you know, ultimately, people aren't just used to you know, the black face and leadership, you know, and so that disruption came from a place of what they really wanted to say is

he doesn't belong, You don't belong in that position. And I feel that, you know, I feel the total opposite. And I saw that when I decided to start the company. Many people think, especially from the company that I decided to leave, you know, the excuses, Oh, it was a it was a plan all along, but it wasn't. It wasn't a plan all along. It was just understanding of what I thought my value was, and it was a misunderstanding of uh, what they thought was important to me

and and who had the control sort of speak. And so what I saw in the space was something that didn't exist and what a lot of people said they wished they had. If you talk to any you know, athletes of yesterday, guys that spent a lot of time in the league, you know, every time I see those guys, they talked to me about just how important it is for me to be in the road that I'm in.

And also for the company to present itself and position itself veteran, No, absolutely, to position itself the way it has. And you know, the competition, there's an entitlement from very end because of the business card or the institution or the or the big office, um or the fact that this was our space and you actually you should be working for us, you know. And and so there's a

constant critique. There's a constant just blatant lies throughout processes of recruiting and things like that that takes place, uh and and and specifically my direction. And they'll do anything for an athlete to sign with anyone but me per se. But yeah, but you know that still exists as strong as it ever was. No, that's that's strong. But but you gotta remember ten years prior it was this, This isn't gonna last, you know, not to take them serious.

You know, it's only about Lebron so to speak. And but now we're here, we're here in a real way and and you know, um, we just had our tenth anniversary. We had our our second annual retreat. And I said

on my on my i G post. You know, the good thing is it was a great ten years and and you know we look forward to Tim Moore great years, right, just getting better as a company, me getting better as a leader in my role um us doing because we don't just represent players, to represent their families as well. But in addition to that, I said, the bad news is for the haters is we're just getting started company. Your company has negotiated like two billion dollars in deals,

Like what do you think? Oh so good? But what a regardless of the number, what do you think makes Clutch so attractive to athletes? Again? You know someone I think the face right, I think you know, you always feel good to know that someone understands you. And you gotta remember, for for many years, agents weren't looked at And by the way, I'm I'm I'm the CEO of the company, and so I play an agent role, but

that's not the only role I play. But in that agent road, they weren't really looked at as credible people, you know, people doing business with integrity. They were looked at as somebody who can get me more money, and that was that was the value that you know, they weren't really looked and they're still not today, not looked at someone who can help me throughout other aspects of life. And I brought that to the game because for me,

it's more than the feet. I really give a ship like I really because if I didn't, I wouldn't go to the level so I go. I wouldn't sit in the fires that I sit in with with with clients. You know, we've seen it. We've seen the guy in the picture when he's number one and not in the picture. You know when things go bad, and so in boxing you see like Don King go from one boxing in the new champion. But I never wanted to be that, right because this is not something that I started, you know,

specifically for a dollar. That wasn't the case. And the disruption comes from, I think, a focus and the willingness to you know, make the money but still continue to build, have a little success, but still continue to keep a focus. And I think that when you're winning, whatever that entails, the focus has to increase, right, you have to get better.

I don't do this by myself. I have an unbelievable team of people that come to work every day and we just try to help each other and hold each other accountable, but also help declient and help their families. And you've got to remember, too, what they've done to the athlete for so many years is give them everything they want. Right. And when I say that, I'm saying give it. Whether that's praise, whether that oh, you bought this car, that's the only you got, the first one,

that's the first Bentley is the only one. That's all sucker stuff, right, that's all. Yeah, it's all short terms, but that's what they feel they need to say because the relationship isn't strong. Right, you need money, Let me get you that money. Let me get you more money. And on the other side, as parents or as the athlete, the more you give me in their mind, that's the

more I feel like you value who I am. You think my son, or you think I'm the best player, because and this is how the athletes mindset's trained for so long. But as you and I, as we all know, when you're done playing a sport, that's not the world that we live in, right, And what that causes you to do, it causes you to build bad happens, right,

just simple things. Right. I came in here and I said, you know what, I was probably about a minute behind or two minutes behind when I should have been here. That's late. That's late in my book, and I apologize for that. The first thing I said to you was I apologize for being a few minutes late. Obviously, sunset is what it is. And you know, whatever the excuse may be, I lead with that because I have an appreciation for your time and everyone else's time that's here

with this specific production. They don't teach the athlete that, right. My thing is if I text you, you should text me back, because if you text me and I don't text you back, you have an issue with that, right But because you feel like you're paying me, I should be waiting on you. Life don't work like that, right And when you build a business, because they're all businesses, I have a business too. I have people that work

with me that I pay as well. Our time is important, just as important as your time, and so I try to educate and push that. And it don't work for everybody right away. It don't sink in for everybody right away. But you said, because everyone so used to be. If you're a young age, you're the special. People are telling you yes all the time, all the time, all the time, and and you know it's simple things right in life, and we learned through experience. We learned through our parents,

our grandparents. Just look at the guy's locker, right, If you go into a locker room and the guy's locker is junkie, I can almost guarantee their house is the same way, right, because it's just the habits, okay, And I'm gonna get to where I'm getting to. So you got those two aspects, very simple detailed things. In the event their houses like that, what do you think their business acumen is? Want to be? Could be as messy

as now. Now when you say messy, don't talk to me about I make a lot of money because I don't really give a shit about that, right, And we've been tricked with that for so long. That's the trick. I make a lot of money. I made you a lot of money. You got a lot of money. Whoop, they fucking do? Right. We get that part. But what about the other things that it takes to be a

great partner? Okay? Because on one hand, you're gonna say to me, I want this, this, this, and this, But on the other hand, there's things outside of your talent that affects my capabilities to come through for you, and we're a team. We're a team. So this is this is the conversation that I'm having. I don't know what other conversation guys is having with their guys. This is the conversation I'm having. And when you're young, sometimes it go through one and out the other. It doesn't get

to everybody. When you're pitching somebody in a and I don't really pitch. I don't have nothing to sell. But when you're in front of a family, this is not the sexy conversation, especially when someone has come in and put up something of your son in front of a BMW or bands and it's like we go, yeah, but but those deals don't even exist. But you're you're getting full from that candy. We can get full from candy.

We can get full from you know, broccolini, a nice piece of dover so and and a roasted potato, two different meals, right, but you know, and so I think that for me, that's what's important to me, and that's why we we we we differentiate. And it was always bigger than the finance part of it. Now, don't get me wrong, I do a job. I want to get paid.

But again going back to the dirty locker, right, there's no way you pay your bills on time in the event you're because because and by the way, if you've been told you're the best thing since slice spread, and not only you may not feel like you why why you know I can do it when I get ready?

But again, we all have American Express cards that don't happen that it don't work like that, right, And so just trying to help these guys get through the actual playing years and really focus on life and what that entails, because it don't make no sense to make the money if after you've done playing you have all these bad habits and you don't really know how to live, and you don't really have infrastructure in place, and more importantly, you don't have a mindset that allows you to think

clearly and be able to identify when I'm doing something that's off kilter. Right, we see it all the time, right And and by the way, this helps you choose the right partner, because that's a you know, people don't understand, and these guys deal with so much and the only thing that money does is put a band aid over open wound. And as you know, that thing needs to be stitched up. Can't put a band aid over open

and so that band aid keeps getting ripped off. It opens back up, you put another band aid on it. That's the life that's there, that's their life in a nutshell. And in most cases, most guys that have the dirty locker, the success rate is very low. It's it don't last. I'm telling you. Most careers are short, and it's so unfortunate. But they'll pen, you know, the competition, a pen that person against me and against us because for whatever reason, as you know, it's still it's it's hard to do.

We still haven't gotten comfortable with doing business at a high level with someone that looks like it's still it's still not where it should be. Reader that you said, like with the windfall of NBA wealth comes with the black tax? What is what does that black tax? What does that look like? Well, you know, unfortunately everyone quits everyone. You know, there's an ecosystem that we live with. But

everyone can't be in the section with me. Right. I need a barber, I need housekeeper, I need a driver. I need security. More than ever, I need security. I need just a quarterback, someone the quarterback. Certain things, but if you only want to be responsible for the doing, and if you're only looking for the credit, then you're probably because in that case you lack the experience and so therefore you're not gonna be putting that position right. And then what happens is what they say I do,

which is I don't. People say, oh, well, if you go with them, he's gonna drive a wedge and you're not gonna get no, because if you go with us, you're gonna get the truth. And if the truth hurts, then you have to look in the mirror, not me. You look in the mirror, right, because by the way I lived it, I have everything that you that these young people next to the athlete want to do and want to accomplish. I have it on DVD. I took every step I carry, I did everything I carry the

shoot by the way, I'm the CEO the company. I'll carry the gym bag right now today. I'll carry the gym bag with the client shoes in the gym bag to the car right now today. Because I don't. This is what I do, right, And so at the end of the day, that's what I meant by that everyone around you quit who told you to quit your job because I made it. It don't work like that, Mom and Dad, fantastic. You know, depending on your family structure

and depend on how much money you made. You know you're getting in okay, that has to last you for you got to multiply that or divide that times forty five. That has to that has to last you over the next forty five years. Most people don't make their money to their fifty you know, in a real way, right, these guys are twenty I got, I got. I have clients that signed two men out of contract to two right, and so it's it's a lot on them, man, it's

a lot on them. But as you can see and hear in my tone, I really, I really care about it. And I don't feel like I'm in competition with anybody because I'm not. You know, if you get a client, great, fantastic, what do you do? You know, it's it's everyone's not because everyone's not for us or for me to represent. And I understand that. But at the same time, I

appreciate those that I have been able to. I couldn't do it without them, um, and I appreciate their courage because it takes that right and and and again I said it. I said it in the Instagram post. I said, you know, the one thing I've learned through all the triumphs and challenges and and wins and whatever loss is, whatever you wanna call it, I learned that having the number one pick isn't the end all be all, and getting fired isn't the worst thing in the world. And

what I meant by that is it don't. And I said after that, it's everything in between, that resilience to continue to move forward, because when you work with people, they can wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Anything could take place. You've been around the music business forever. You know how that works, and so you could do everything right, but because someone close to them, it's coming

from a place of manipulation. And and one thing about it, as you know, that survivor's remorse, that heart, that emotion that you feel with somebody connected to you if they feel like they want to remove you for whatever reason, and whether they're getting something out of it or someone else is pitching them to get something out of it. I've been I've been through it all that that that happens. So you just gotta keep going, man, And I tell every young aspiring agent, male and female. I talked to

them all. I take the time out to speak to everybody pretty much that that approaches me, and I say that to them. It just takes. Don't try to get ten clients, get one, Get one, and you know, do the best job you can for that one, and then build the next. I've been extremely fortunate, and we've been um fortunately as a company. But no one gave us anything. No one has given me anything but an opportunity, right, and with that opportunity was up to me what I

what I chose to do with that opportunity. Current players in the league, now, do you really represent the brand in your mind that you got? Of course Lebron's Raymond Young? Yeah, but we have I mean again, Mordan, I mean look, our young or is unbelievable. Um we you know, whether you are an All Star, Darius Garland first time All Star. John T. Murray was the first time All Star. So happy for those guys. Tyrese Maxie was a rising star

you know in Philadelphia. Anthony Edwards who was a rising star you know, um, you know guys like again, we talked about Darius Basley who Darius basically started in I L. He really did when I did the internship with New Balance with Darius. Basically that was the beginning of n I M. That expedited in the whole n I L process.

That expedited because now there was another option. So you don't want star players not going to university and they can go and work at these different companies that they really need, they really need this more than anything, you know, but they lose the platform to play. Yeah, but he still went first round and he got his money and he got an education in the space that's authentic and

organic to what he does. So that was great. Uh that we have Colin Sexton who signed with with with with the Jazz, and Taylor horn Tucker who's with the We have four guys in the Jazz, j Vanderbilt, a couple other guys. But you know, Jordan Clarkson, you see him. He's leading the Lululemon campaign now, which was different, you know, first and only athletes to do that. Um, but we have a tongue, you know, use of nerkut choose, who's who's importland and just a great guy. You know, obviously

it's European and it took courage for him. If you could have saw some of the messages he got when he was shooting. He couldn't believe it. He could not believe and I had to explain to him, this is what it is, man, this is this is Oh, oh it's it gets nasty. Oh it gets nasty. You don't you know? If we keep it the clean, you don't talk down on these people, you don't speak their name. Because I come from a place where there's consequences for doing that, right, and so I know what that's like.

So I don't need to go there. But I also know what that's like. I come from that world where you know, there's consequences. They don't come from that way. And again, which is why I don't respect it. You know, um anonymous quotes and things like that. When they did when they did the anonymous article, people ask me like, how do you feel. I don't feel nothing. It's anonymous, right, I'm a man at the end of the day. If I have something to say, I'm on the record. I'm

birth from that. I don't one thing about growing up on the east side of Cleveland, the Glenville area, or any area. Clear I'm from the Glmberal area, but any place in Cleveland. You know you're gonna have to show it. You know you're gonna have to show I don't care how high up on the totem pole you are. You know there's gonna come and time you're gonna have to show it. And so I don't I don't really play with that, you know. Um, I'm proud of what I've

been able to accomplish. I'm proud of what we've been able to accomplish as a company, you know. And then my mind is so focused on just the elevation again, not just being an agent, you know, um, starting out the trunk of my car to building a business, like you said, And the numbers are the numbers. But what I look at again, I was more impressed with the

character of people that we've been able to hire. You know, my partner and see all the company she started with me, fair left she you know, we talked about this all the time, just being two people trying to figure this thing out. Fair Her name is Farah and you know you see Georgia here with me today, and just a number of people, you know. Uh. I was able to bring on a guy named Omar Wilkes, who dad is you know Jamal Wilkes and um, you know, he came

from another place and it was just different for him. Um, but he was also like, man, you know, I really appreciate this because I only knew one aspect of it. And so we've been able to build a great business. But I'm not stopping there. You know, my as you know, continues to to work. So I have a lot of things that I want to do just from a business perspective. But but it's not away from the business. It's organic and authentic to the business, and it's inclusive, right and

so um, we'll continue to grow the team. Obviously we went into football and that's been that's been great, and you take your bumps in the road and that's part of it, you know. But I think again, like I talked about the next ten years, we're gonna be here. We're not going anywhere, and we'll continue to to strengthen that foundation and come through for the guys and and be there when they're up and be there when they're down.

Definitely disrupted the foundation, you know, do you feel like the system was threatened by you when they implemented the rich Pole rule? Oh yeah, but but but you know what again, people talk about that all the time. As much as it was about me, it was more so, Okay, one slip through the cracks, we gotta worry about the next the other hundred. So I felt like that was about that. That was a discouraging position that they were

trying to put people in. And again, you can be from the best institution in the world and not be great in this business, right because you can be booked smart and I have people skills. There's no books here, you know, Ernest Hemingway right, you know, you know, you have to have intuition, you have to have people skills. You have to be able to align with someone that they respect you enough to pick up the phone. Some people have the trinkets that they dangle. Some people have

respect just eye contact. So speaking of book, you got one coming out, man, yeah? One? Yeah, you know, Jack. It was weird because I was going through just picking you know, the publisher or whatnot, and I happen to see it on Twitter. So I called Jam like, yo, like what's going on here? And you started he was like, oh,

I didn't even know. I said, listen, you know, you have to step up if you want my book, because I'm down the road, So I can't just dis guard what my team has worked on, but I need the opportunity to you know, were family already had fully in play down the road for sure. Yeah, but to host credit, he's like, let me call you back. You know, they called me back, and when he was like, I'm you know, I'm stepping up, and uh, that's how it's supposed to go, right,

That's what we're getting these positions for. And so you gotta try to keep it, keep leading by example when you can work with your people, work with them, especially if they're capable of doing the job. And so I think oftentimes people get it conscrewed in terms of oh, man, you got on, you should put me on. No, I got on. You should put yourself in position where you're capable of being put on. That way, when I do

give you an opportunity, we both look good. Yeah, And so I think that again, we just have to continue to fight the power. You know called Lucky Me, which is a jay Z song. You said his music was the soundtrack of your life. Yes, my favorite Lucky Me is probably my favorite jay Z song. Um, and I talked about that all the time. And so you know when you're on the other side man, and coming from again, my environment was when you step off the porch, you're

in the fire. And so these young kids today and when I was growing up, there's no ways to life, right, there's no app you can go to and guide you properly throughout life. A lot of it we got through. You know. Me, I was lucky enough to have my dad, and the Lucky Me title is a double on time, you know, because I was lucky in a lot of ways. Then I was not so lucky, and in some ways I created my own luck and so I just, um, that stuck with me and then um, but the book

is it's not a puff piece. I think it's it's going to hit home for a lot of people, regardless you know, what ethnic background you're from or how you grew up. Per se, I think you're gonna you know, I've we've probably about semi five percent done. And um, but the project, Yeah, his name is Jesse Washington. Yeah, and he's doing he's doing an unbelievable job, man, he

really is. And uh he gets it out of you, you know, and he's and he's doing he's making me relive some moments that was probably a little traumatizing for me, but it's but it's been therapeutic to get it out as well. And so I'm excited about that. And I just you know, I just always want to can teen you to It's about the youth at this point. You know, Um, we've come a long way. I've been able to come a long way. You got again, just talking earlier, I never dreamed of being able to sit on boards. I

didn't even know what that was. And and being on the board of you know, when I partner with U t A and them coming back and being on the board of U t A. You know, the first thing I talked to I said, I don't, I don't. I just don't want to be on the board because I'm black, you know. And I talked to the partners about that, and they were like, no, you know you we need you on the board. We need not just diversity in terms of skin color, we need diversity in terms of

how people think. We're trying to continue to grow the business. And you know, you've been able to do something that most people cannot do. You know a lot of people there's certain people born on third and I don't judge what it's. It's you know, it's easier to get home from third There's there's certain people that were knew somebody, that knew somebody, that knew somebody, and yeah, you may have known somebody, but most people stop at the at

the at the section of the club. They don't really get past that aspect of it, because you lust for things that you think are cool versus really sacrificing and not being in those cool moments to actually build something. I was gonna say, growing up in the Glenville section of Cleveland, who are you listening to back in those days? Man, I listen. One thing about me, you know, I listened to everything and Cleveland is if you can break a

record in Cleveland, you're on your way. That's a tough crowd. I mean, just ask Jeezy Acts. You know, actually actually at anybody in the music business, right But Bone Thugs was from Cleveland, so it was different. They was gonna get our support no matter what I'm talking about, You're not being from there. They called it the any Ohio Valley period. You know, I was in needs a business

for a short time. You know, I'm so connected to it, but I listened to everything from obviously you know you hear the j de Nas, the Biggis, the mob deep, but we listened to guys like mac maul. We listened to guys like Brother Lynch Hung you know e forty Um obviously short Dog then you know we had the

scar Faces of the world. You had you g K is one of my favorite groups, undoubtedly, right, that's not even you know, that's not a conversation, right And by the way, eight Ball and mg G. What Tony Draper did with Suave House back then, I said, you know, I got a deep, deep, deep you know, roll the decks of music because we was in it. What Pete and didn't going down to New Orleans? What p did? What? What? What Baby and Slim did? Like, those guys were coming.

Their albums came out more than shoes dropped, like and every week, and you had to have them at him and you had to have him and so we and then obviously going to the East Coast from the Rutangs to the a Zies too. Again, Um, it's not that I mean big al Everything we listened to, we listened to everything Glory you know, Um, murder music is one of my favorites. So you know, we had it had a deep and thing, like you said, even in Chicago, you know from obviously you had Common, but you had Twister.

Then you had do or Die. Uh. And then when Kanye came, you know, he just was. He took it to a whole another level. And the West Coast is undeniable. I remember I was listening to the DNC and I might have been in third grade. I know exactly what I had on when the formula came out, when that album and that album came out, I knew exactly what

I wore to school that day. And and obviously n w A was unbelievable, and then Easy did his thing, and and then when when when Cube I remember when Cube bro call from n w A and how that hit. And then obviously I listened to Snoop Doggie Style because I played many football and we used to take a bus trip for the National Championship from Cleveland to Florida.

That's a long way. I listened to Doggies Style on the walkman all the way there, all the way back, you know, because you have to flip the tape, you know. We Yeah, I grew up my father and my mother, my brother's sister, my uncle's like and not just rap but jazz, you know, all the old school uh musicians and things like that. Um Cleveland is just that town though, right, it's it's it's a melting pot of a lot of

different things. And so UM music was something that always was special to me, even to the current guys today. And with the entrepreneurial hustle like love me like throwbacks with your thing, right you were hustling? Yeah? Was that your thing that first you started meeting people in hip hop? Do that that thing of being popular song and throw backs? Uh?

You know what? I never thought about that. I do remember I was at Memorial weekend this might have been on too, and I ran in a puff and him and I had the same rams jersey on, and he looking at me and you know, he's he don't, he's not. He's looking my way. And let me just rephrase that, he's looking my way and I'm looking his way. But you know, and we was actually in there where he forded him that. Now. I talked to for you about

this not too long ago Draymond's wedding. But um, during that time, my man Alex, who is down in um Atlanta, you know, does all a g entertainment. He had a club They're called the Billboard, and I think he had got puffed if I remember correctly. And I could be a little off, but I'm not really off with these types of things, so kind of you know, I was in that in that whole mix. One day, I'm on

the bus. Jay is doing a liquid the Spright liquid mixed to um and we're in Camden and Ja pulls the bus over for us to get on the bus. Me mad Randy Brown. He pulls the bus over for us to go on the bus so we can roll in with with him. And that night I got pictures of this. I want to say for real, was on the bus this night too, and we both He had on the West Indian Air Force one. I had on the West Indies too, and I had like Oakland A's

So you had that dynamic. And obviously once we start, once we start really going up and see j all the time. Obviously ran into um everybody pretty much and we would be there with young guns and beans. Was that like on the business front and see what Jay was doing Rockefeller and their rock Nation to to you and MATV and bron like business aspect of getting in the game. Well, you know, we we always pay homage

to Hold because it was just again by example. You know when you when you I always say one thing about sports, you should. There's no way you should come out of sports and not be better and not on the court. Sports intersects with from a place of business, with the most affluent people in the world. Right, You've got owners, you got superstar athletes, you've got television networks, ceo cmos of major brands. How could you not come

out of this better? The only way you don't come out of this better is if you continue to do what eat the ego? Right, most guys get full off ego. And when you full off ego, all you see is you. You don't like to be in rooms, right, And that's so backwards and so what you know. I remember going to the hose house and ran brands and things that he talked about and said. And at the funniest I remember acting Jay one day he has an automar had a had a leather band on it, and you know,

back then everyone was into the ice style. And I asked, I said, you know, let me we buy that watch from me. He looked at me like you know, because I looked fifteen. I'm like, you know, I'm I'm serious, you know, but if you know him, he's not really sell anything. But we we you know, we just one thing about us. We we were always observing in different ways.

We all have different ways being randy being observed and different and were and we were never so into ourselves not to say to somebody, yeoh man, that's a nice shirt, or you know, yeah, let me what was that like? And and and as much this was yeah, but this is years before rock Nation wasn't even a thought. When this was We was there with Rockefeller. Um and I get on jail about giving out to these rockets just

a whole. That's a whole. That's a whole. The conversation we will have we haven't on our on our on our text. You gotta relax a little bit there. But but but you know, but um, we learned, you know, just along the way it was you know, you know, you learned from everybody, right, you learned. You know, we was around guys like Stop, We was around at that point being able to be around guys like Puff, being

able to be around guys like uh, Jimmy. But also as much as that, you know, being welcomed by guys like Lin Merritt, who was a big time exact u at NAKI just retired at that time. And and then just the older guys from my neighborhood. They don't give you a day off, right because they know that a day off can mean your life in a lot of instances.

And so you always had to So I come from that, and again I don't know anything else, and I'm unapologetic about it, because you know, you you live long enough, my dad, you should always say, just keep living, son. You live long enough, you start to start to see things. And so I'm gonna miss some people. But we were able to learn a lot from a lot of different people and as and you should right, many people this

whole idea. I did it myself, not really, you know, in terms of I understand what that means and why some people say that. And you yourself has to have to have to dry, you have to get up and put forth the effort to want to be entirely doing it yourself. But no one's entirely self made, because it takes team, it takes allies, it takes accomplices, you know, it takes different things, but um being around in that environment, you also learned what not to do, which is in

a lot of ways more important. You know, like I knew, for a fact, if I'm going to see how I'm by myself, he's in the back of a may back. It's one seat, what I'm saying, the window, and and and my friends knew to meet me there. That's just how it works. You get what I'm saying. And there's sometimes we went together when we went as you know, when it was the four of us, obviously we got our own transportation and things like that. So you learn things.

But we learned things from everybody, you know, you know, because there was very buttoned up guys being around. We was around Kevin Miles, he was around, um l A. Reids, We was around and these are people in music, uh, and then again being around other athletes and sports. But there was times when we when we first came in, people looked at us and definitely mapping myself like why y'all got this? So on while y'all, you know, while

you and I talked to everybody. I talked from time I get into the arena and the guy taking my car keys, hey man, thank you I really appreciate that to SCALP because it's an ecosystem and I wasn't doing it to receive something back. It's just you. My dad always taught me everyone deserves your respect. Everyone deserves your respect. And I go through my life like that. And so now what has helped me, you know, I become you know, friends with people that I never thought I would even

be friends with. Right, Um, I spent time with Chris David's from New but it was an incredible guys, Dad, you know, Jim, they built an incredible business. But as we spent we spent the day together and what we both came out of it with was like we have so much in common and such a like minded interest and it was just a great, a great hang, you know.

And and the kids in my neighborhood, they can't see that far, right, and the things I've been able to do, and and and the rooms I've been able and been blessed to be in, I can't. I can't. I can't bullsho with that, right, I can't. I can't hold that in right, I can't lock that up in the safe. And I also can't take it for granted, right because I know, the kids where I come from, they can't

see that far. So do you think that the success kind of makes it even more you steering in that way of understanding that I got to help the next generation of it spends back that way. The most success you get, the more you look as that's what it's about. Clutch is a community company. It's community, it's a it's a it's a brand of the community. You know, people feel like young people and you know, like what the young gentlemen said the earlier said, I want to hear it.

People feel like they're they're part of our success, and they are. They are in the most active way they've ever been, in the most authentic way. You know, I walked down the street and anywhere I go across the country, across the world. I mean I've been on you know, across the pond, and people recognize you, and I talked to people and and they're rooting for They're rooting for because just like anything, they feel like they're growing with you.

Um and so I'm extremely apprecative of that. And you understand it, like you know, people's like, you know, you did the shoe, and you know, they always I walked down the street and say, man, when your next shoe coming out? I didn't get to get the first one, you know, and one of them, but but it's coming. But but you know, it's just like so many things. And when I think back on it, it is for the youth, right, because we're losing our youth. Man, We

losing them at twelve eleven years of age. And I have a fourteen year old son, right, And it's one of those things where I didn't come this far to come this far, you know, I really didn't. And that's why I try to focus on where I'm positioning and how to make things better going forward. So I'm not taking again these opportunities for grant. I'm not taking my positioning for granted. And I'm holding myself and others accountable, and I'm holding the industry accountable. Whether they lack it

or not don't matter to me. But again, if you're gonna do it, do it right. Because I can't represent every player, that's impossible, right, But what I can represent is us, And what I can represent is integrity and morality and and accountability and and you know, just being authentic. I don't we got enough fake stuff around us. You know, that's the last thing we need. We need more of you getting representing a lot by these rappers too. Man,

you getting shout it out onto several records. J Cole, will Sticks Pauls Agency, you know, Baby J Cole, you know, Brent and a baby King they you know, um a lost souls. A little baby said, oh yeah, Brent said, oh my niggas balling like Rich Paul. A little baby said, I think I need agents the way I played a call up Rich, you know. And again it's got a best a huge hip, a fan that has to be

super ampthis. I'm always about that. You know. It's like because it's one of those things where I used to hear, you know, rappers talk about Mike or talk about Lebron talking about and so to hear that or to talk about, you know, guys that was in the streets that they talked about those guys, and so in my neighborhood, you always that was part of your and so to hear that, um, and those guys are doing it genuinely, you know, and

those guys. I just talked to Brent the other day. Again, I talked to I probably talked to Baby maybe, and I talked a lot. Yeah, Roddy and I talked album. I gotta get you all get fist this album. You know what I told baby, don't put the album out until I hear it. So he's actually waiting on me to call, you know, and Cold, you know, I feel like Cold. We grew together. What dreams? Man? He just loves it, right, he loves it. But he can play, you know, by the way, soking dirt. It's a lot

of twisted that's a great question. A lot of guys that can hoop that are rappers. Okay, what's your top five? Is five sign sign? Because I've seen Gilly out there and you know we're around the same mage. So that well, he's not gonna play too many games, you know once, but he can fall. You know. It's it's people forget I take it by the cities, right, Guys from Philly, from Chicago can hoop. L A guys can whop like it's not like a thing. They're real. You know, Detroit

got growing up. These all these places brought hoopers. And you better hope no rapper come from Seattle because they definitely gonna be able to to hoop, you know. So, but no I appreciate those guys. And again I like to listen to I listened to everything pretty much. Um, and you tell people what to put out. Man, you know you got big credit on this podcast and we had Drake on and Drake said, you was the one who really told them a matter that so far gone

mixtape that best I ever had. That's where you need to put your focus on. So funny because Drake and I again, you know me and Drake, we got a long history relationship that was authentic, just happened to be. I met Drake. I met Drake at a dinner Jay. I was leaving Polo the Don in the studio in Santa Monica. Jay called me, Yo, where are you at? Meet me at cut So I'm running late because I'm leaving and I'm not living in the l A at that time. I don't know, you know, it's Beverly Hills.

So I pull up at the Beverly Wilshire and I'm there and I'm sitting down and M. G Robertson like, Yo, rich this family this you know it's drizzy. And I'm like, oh, so naturally you're sitting across from start talking or whatever. And long story short, we were going to Toronto a couple of weeks later, and he and I just was talking and I was like, Yo, we're coming. I'm gonna do something with LJ. Put you on it. You know, it's your home whatever, family whatever. That night we went out,

you know, it was grand I think the Grammy. It was around the Granmy time. Yeah, we went out to the Hollywood Athletic Club and we was we was all just hanging and so I end up he put me with a guy named t Rex. So t Rex was his guy, and uh, we put these events together and the team was standing over. So the first night we did an event, it was at a club called six Degrees and it was we did it private. That end up being pretty much just so far gone album released party.

But I want to say, and again I could be off a little bit, but I think so. But nevertheless, how Drake and I came up with that conversation. He used to pick me up when I when I layed in Toronto and get to my hotel, Drake would actually come to my pick me up. You know, he had t He's actually picked me up and we're listening to the project. And he liked Uptown with with Wayne and obviously it's Wayne, right, Wayne a goat like, of course you wanted there, but so far gone. I had DJ.

The DJ at the time was our DJ, Steph Loss. Yeah, yeah, And so I said, Steph, play this record and play this record and play And I said to Drake in this spot, I was like, do you see this reaction? Man? Like this thing, you know? And it was just undeniable, baby, my thing. You just couldn't deny that. And Drake being Drake. You know one thing about Drake he will listen. You know, he takes and he's obviously he's one of the best ever do it. But he listened and I didn't even

I wasn't looking for credit. I was just being honest because career and and and the thing about it is we became really close and I never forget. Brandon Wains was at the University of Kentucky and he called me and was like, man, we need somebody from from March Madness. And I was like, you should get Drake and he was like it was like yeah. So I put it in with g Robertson and remember Kanye Kanye directed the video and so Drake ended up doing the uh the

Midnight Madness for Kentucky. That started that relationship with Kentucky and then and then we was we started going to Toronto and then it brought you know, Drake and at that time it was just Nico Future, Drake t Rex and maybe a few other guys, but that's who that That's who I knew. And Um in the camp Oliver, I think obviously forty Um and I met Boy Wonder at at this place called the Remix Project, and I

never forget. We were doing a a commercial for for Lebron and I was like, Yo, give me some beats because you know, we're trying to figure this commercial out. And uh he did that. And you know, it's just when we talk about all these things, just putting together these different dynamics, it's just funny that I'm starting to

think about things. Or we did. We did to Walk in My Shoes commercial with Lebron and Nike had wanted to use somebody and I end up calling Mike Will and I was like, no, we should use Mike Will. It was like this, They're like, who the hell is Mike Will? And it's like and and my man Chubby uh down Atlanta had him called me put me on the phone with Mike will and I was like, yeah, we would I want to use you for this commercial

for lebron and um. He had ended up doing this beat and got Sam Hook to write the hook on it, and he was like, man, who should I get to put on this hook? And I was like, you know John Legends from Ohio. You know makes sense. So he went and got John. I don't know if you've ever seen this commercial. It's called walking My Shoes, but the music behind it it's produced by Mike will and and

John Legends on it. So those you know from the Drakes to that type of stuff, and you know, you just always I just it's just it's surround you, right, And it's a production credit to right on Fat Joe's album. I didn't know that well. I am a producer at heart. I think I'm a producing but no, it was just one of those things where I talked to these guys. I talked with me Boy Wondering, Vinyls was in the studio, and my man Simon managers Boy Wonder and would give

beyond all those guys. Now he's doing unbelieva with job. But but back then I had just said to him. I was saying, you should flip this. You got me look out that l L and he was like, sounds kind of crazy. He actually, I think he might have made it for He might have made it for Drake. Drake didn't take it. And then I think that Joe heard it and was like, I want that, so boy, wonder you know, gave me, gave me credit represent rapids

and musicians. You know what, clutch sports and entertainment don't sound bad. You know it don't sound bad. You know, it's always true. I think those two things intersect for sure, the right ones. I mean, I'm open minded to it. I just think that that's a different business, you know, and it's a lucrative business if you do it right. Uh. But again with all this stuff right now, I talked to everybody we talked about today. I've talked to all of them, whether they were my clients or my friends

that happened to be in the music business. We have these high level conversations. It all circles back to professionalism, and we come from a place. Whether you came from the streets or whether you're an athlete, you don't you don't have to move unless you really want to move right, And so how you start your day matters regardless of what you're doing. And if you're creative that wants to be a business guy, you can't pick and choose when

you want to be a business guy. You have to start your day doing business right and you create when you create, you start your day uh doing business. And so yeah, I think we will eventually go down that path at some point. Maybe maybe not. You know, it's

like I said, I'm open minded. That's a that's a conversation you have as a group, as a team, um, because you want to keep the main thing the main thing, but ultimately Clutches it's a real brand, um, and you've got Clutch Sports Group and you know, but there's a whole other ecosystem that's there and and and there's another opportunity that's there, and you tend to go that direction when you're organically pushed in that direction. I will, I

won't force to shoot on I won't do that. Well, whenever you start a podcast division, we got a past you that Royal mall you know, good friends of yours mall Yeah, yeah for sure, yeah, yeah, I know mall for for for a long time. So when he called me, he called me Biggs called me like it was that's what I do, mo. Yeah, I just I think helping people matters, right, And so when you look back at what's been like to sends out to you like that, that was when you look back, like, yo, that was

a tough negotiation. Like, I mean, I got what I wanted, but like then this wise like that was really challenging for me. And I'm pretty good at this, but this still was very challenging. You know, man, They're all challenging, you know, because there's a ton of friendly fire in negotiations as well. And negotiations in our business doesn't start July first, like most people think those free agencies, So

negotiations that started and it ends in five days. No, you're always in the negotiation and it ends when your contract is done, right, We're not. I don't do this for ESPN or Fox or hoops Hype. You know, those are all great platforms. But I try to tell my guys don't get caught up in that, and don't get caught up into what someone else is doing. That's the that's the worst thing you can do is have the mindset of, oh, they got the deal done. Mine should

be done, Mine should be more this or that. Everything is situational. He hasn't answered yet, you know, because it's like you asking McDonald's for the sauce of the Big Mac, and I'm gonna give it to you, especially not on the platform like this. I think I think every every negotiation is tough. What's differently that? Do you think it? Is it? What's it like when people start throwing out numbers, right, like people that don't know, like, what does it come

down to? Is it? Is it more of a numbers game? Is it down the value? It really comes down the value and situations, you know, like prime exam of them. I'll give you this little you know, Colin Sexton was on the Cavaliers this year. He missed seventy one games, right, and so we get to market and of course the Calves value Colin Sexton, but they only valued him to

a specific number. And that's what it was pretty much the year before now, the year before I wasn't representing him when he wouldn't to his what they called an extension negotiation, which you can extend after your third year. I was not representing them. I recruited him out of college didn't get them, which is fine. I don't take it personal business. And when they decided they wanted to make a change, they came back to me and and of course, you know, great family, great kid, can play,

you know, really focused on the game of basketball. And he was again someone who was restricted. They called it being restricted, meaning that this team owns your rights and the next team can They can offer you, but this team has the right to match, and so that hurts your little market as well. Now at the same time, I also represent Darius Garland. They're on the same team, and so July one, Darius Garland was long star team calls. By July three, I'm able to negotiate, you know, two

two million out of contract for Darius Garland. But I can't forget about my job being done, right, I still

got COLMN set in there. And one thing about it, you can spend it any which way you want, and sometimes just can backfire on you, because when you care as much as I do, you're willing to go to the to the bitter end, right, And we were more than willing to just play on a one year deal, which is called your qualifying offer, and come back year in a different market and he would be totally free to sign with whoever he wanted to, with no restrictions.

But again, I got a young man coming off an injury, missed seventy one games. As you know, his family, his mom and dad did an unbelievable job. We stayed in communication, he and and I just was very honest with them and very matter of fact with them, and they appreciated it. And we set out there for three months, right and going behold, here comes Utah. They want to trade Donovan Mitchell. Well, now in the Calves, you gotta give to get, you know,

And so here's Colin Sexton sitting there. His value to Calves was ex but his value to Utah was why he was able to secure a four year, you know, seventy three million dollar, fully guaranteed contract for him after missing seventy one game. You know, there's two games in the season for people that don't know. But but imagine that I made it about anything but him, right, which

is part of the reason why I haven't. This year was my first time taking a vacation in a long time, and I promised be that I would go on vacation. You know, I was there in the Hamptons one day and she was like, Rich, you need to go on vacation. And I promise. And I also promised Draymond that I would go on vacation. And I needed it, you know, and I and down she did too because I took my kids and I felt like that was great. We we went on a family vacation and then obviously I

took my brother and and some other friends. We were on a vacation and it was great. I needed it, but it was a I don't vacate really because the work isn't done right. And so but many people, not just those two, many parents and you know, colleagues and stuff tell you, but you gotta take care of yourself. And so this year I decided to do that. But even on vacation, I'm calling checking in on Colin just to make sure. And you know, look, there's a lot

of different situations that come about. And like I said in the beginning of our conversation, I don't feel right sitting in the limelight with the client and not sitting in the fire. And went to, you know, I've been through it, whether it was in then situation, you really got put in the fire with that one yeah, and you know these people, you know, they try to use it against you, and they try to blame you forward, you know, in that case, and it's fine, you're sitting

that seat, it's fine. But what I'm saying is the competition that they lead with that to parents. You know, this is the stuff that weird. Those stuff, But this is the stuff that I'm just not like like that. But this is some of the stuff that that that happens. Right, It's just a lot. But but but nevertheless, I'm but I'm fine with that because again, I was all I was when he went number one. I was in that green room, right and I had so that comes with it.

You don't get to pick and choose, and so you're staying in the fight with John wall as well. Yeah, the same thing in that case I had. I had one team that didn't want a guy to play, that had another team that wanted a guy played that. You know, it's but again, those are all circumstances. And one thing you have to realize is you're dealing with people. These

are individuals. You're dealing with these these you know, it's a lot that they have to endure, and it's easy for me to deflect the responsibility or the accountability or whatever. And when you're in the foxhole, you're in the foxhole. And you know, look at these guys now jobs in the different situation, ends in a different situation. But all those articles and all those anonymous naysayers or whatever the

case may be, they're not coming out apologizing. You know, when I get sued for nothing, and you know they dropped the case in one aspect, you didn't see nobody right about that. They're not they're not passing that around to parents, but they passed around when the young man decided to sue me for whatever reason. Not to go too much into it, because we still it, but when

they decided that that was passed around. I was talking to Zach Levine and he came on last summer and him and I we just we just had a conversation and it was a great conversation. And at the end of that conversation he said to me, he said, man, you know, I learned more in thirty minutes and I learned in seven years. And that resonated, you know, with me. From a place of just being authentic. It wasn't a picture or no sale, and honestly, just keeping it all

the way a buck. I don't push guys too to fire anybody. I would tell like, that's not my m O. I don't need that, right. And so I'm playing a different game. You know, we're playing a different game as a company. I'm playing a different game as the CEO of the company and as someone who for part of my day I play the agent role. UM and my clients they know that, they know that you came up under C double A and but I read you felt like you learned nothing there. I don't even mention the

company now you know jobs. You know, it's just like again, it's not a competitive thing because that's a big company. It's not just sports. And so at the level I'm at now, you're doing business across all platforms. But what I would what I meant by that was there was

no real plan for me in the sport. I'm talking about strictly sports, because you know, there's people that you work with or see out and you know, despite where you work, I'm not in the streets anymore, right, So I don't have this animosity because you're from somewhere and I'm from somewhere else. I'm off that, Um, but what I'm on is the facts, and the facts is no. Yeah, I learned more of what not to do than what to do. And what I did learn is people try

to suppress and discourage. And in one aspect, yeah, we're giving you an opportunity, but this opportunity comes with a seat belt. We're giving an opportunity, but this opportunity comes with a seat belt, And this opportunity doesn't come with a driver's seat. This opportunity, this car don't even have a driver's seat. And so that's that thing of of when I talk about no plan. It's easy to hire.

I know why you hired me. You hired me because on one instance, there could be some things going on or whatnot, and that you find opportunity, you know what, But we can help him. Part of it is okay, we can help him. But then it became yeah, but but he's moving too fast. You know, now we got to slow him down, right, And it's like mm hmm, that's not really for me, right, And and and it was no plan. It wasn't like it was just we sat in the room and was like, oh, I'm a

plan and do this. No, it wasn't no plan. I got upset about something that I decided to leave, and the thought was, oh, he's leaving and he'll never make it. That was the thought because it wasn't the uproar until Lebron left. Until But it's just so crazy just how people think I left. Eric Bledso left, Tristan Thompson left, Corey Joseph left right. Yeah, that's fine before Lebron left, until Lebron left. So I'm mad if anybody leaves, because when I say I'm mad, I'm I'm I'm more so

thinking about, Okay, what could I have done better? I'm not like mad at world, I'm mad at what looking at Yeah, but then I understand, Okay, it's business, and people decide what they want to decide, so you move on. But I just found that very interesting, And when I look back on it, the thought process was they can't hurt our business. This guy came, right, Yeah, And also the reason why these other people came was because of that.

Wasn't only because of that, but there's no basketball business without him that he started the basketball because before that it was a different thing. And so it was fine. And there was guys that called me and was like, yo, i'm coming to I'm coming, you know, and I can't. I can't give y'all everything. Yeah, there were some guys like, yo, I'm coming, and then they never came. And they never came because whatever excuse was, I know what it us.

It was a discouragement. Right. Athletes don't like confrontation. I don't know if you guys know that, they're not like and so they'll rather just be like, man, I'm good, then really yeah, then really take that step and so yeah and so um. But it was okay. I didn't like I said, I didn't. I didn't. I knew what I set out to do and I had full confidence

and I started the business not even expecting Lebron. See, many people think like and by the way they try to push this narrative within internally or everybody, they can tell that was the whole plan from the beginning, and we wanted tom that's bullshit, like, that's a lot, that's just a that's just a blatant lie, right, and so

you gotta watch people like that. But nevertheless, I knew that that what I wanted to do and how, and I had the vision how I wanted to build it, and I was willing to take as long as it took, and I had I runs dry runs. Guys not getting you know, I took. I took every lump and bump there used to take, not to mention to push back. They're still pushed back. Do you know there's companies that go to families and say that I'm not I don't like to use the word, but just like you know

that guy is not that smart. It's like, well what But I just laugh at things like that because I'm like, well, wait a minute, you know, it takes some type of that seems a little strong. But you know, one last lebron thing I wanted to ask because like a lot so much is said about in earlier days of decision, Right, he goes to Miami's controversial you as far as I know,

at the forefront of the move back to Cleveland. Absolutely, and how that happens right like, and you know, you look at like it's crazy, right that the owners says crazy things. People are burning jerseys, Like how does it get back to taking him back to Miami back to Cleveland? Business man? It's business, you know. And my conversation with him, just like I have conversations with with with all the clients. It's the right way to do things, it's the wrong

way to do things. And there's things that you want to do, and there's things that you should do. And in this case, him going back to Cleveland was about legacy. It had nothing to do I don't care about the letter, this or that I'm talking about. How does this affect your legacy? Right? You win one in Cleveland? Right? And so it's funny what I said to him, because you know, I had to speak to everybody. I had to speak

to on Glow. I had to speak to Savannah, and I had to speak to Marr, had to speak to Randy, and they had these conversations. Um, but this is the hat I'm wearing. And I said to him, I said, you know, we can sit here and talk about the grudge and whatever whoever, but the reality of it is this. You and I both know we've come from places where we've seen two siblings basically try to kill each other and pretty much sleep in the same house that night. Let her this is that we this is about legas,

this is much just nothing bigger than this. By the way, you're going back home and winning. It's nothing bigger than this. And there used to be a general manager on the Cald's name was Chris Grant. Chris Grant was always believing that there was there was a chance. He believed. Unfortunately he was relieved from his job prior to what happened, but he definitely always believed and soship maintain that relationship.

I maintained that relationship with Dan, and I maintained laship with Nate Forbes at the time, and the year that Lebron left Cleveland it was a lockout to following they had a terrible year. But then that next draft year they took Tristan Thompson four, who was my client, And everybody was like, you know, because people want to make it out to be what it's right, it's business. At

the end of the day, it's business. And so for me, it wasn't that hard for me to have that that conversation at that time, just like it's not hard for me to you know, again, using Zach for an example this year when he was in his free agency, just having a very matter of fact conversation, you know, when the John Ta was traded from the Spurs to the Hawks. You know, I have a great relationship on both sides

with the Hawks and the Spurs. And so you know, again the naysayers they try to paint a picture of that's totally false in terms of in our environmental league. But the relationships that I have at the highest levels, they know, talk to any owner in the league, they're gonna say, yeah, when we speak to Rich, he's very mad of fact. He says whatever he does, whatever he says. And you may not like it, how it's done or whatnot. But I don't like a lot of things, you know

that that has to be done. I don't like I drink of green juice every Moore. I don't really like it. But I have to do it, you know. And so I just think that for me, it's just always been about the approach, the approach. How did a personal when he was able to do what he didn't win the chip he did bring the cleland and think about what happened, you know, being down for not only did he win the I couldn't you couldn't write a better you couldn't

write a better way. And so the way I look at this thing, you have an opportunity to work with young men and women now because we have the w n B a UM, you have an opportunity to work with people, and it's your responsibility while they because the most important thing someone can give you is your time. And so giving me their time and allowing me to

be a part of their advisory group. UM and in most cases on the basketball front, lead that that from an advisory perspective, that's not a play thing for me, right, And I'm not advising them to make decisions that's for me. I'm advising to make decision that best suits them and their family. This thing flies by, man, it really does. It flies by their careers fly by, and I try to talk to you know, we talked about that word

professionalism and just being on time. You know, people talk about you know a lot of times you get this whole marketing thing. Now it's been like that, but now everyone wants marketing, marketing, marketing, and a lot of these companies, just a lot of these kids and these families. I don't see it. We're not gonna see it. Right, you're competing with You're not just competing with your peers. Today, I just saw commercial with the Housewives are on a

direct TV commercial. Right, think about what brands are doing. It's a different dynamic and that's good for them. But this whole notion of just because I play a sport and I should have all these marketing opportunities, it's just blatant lie. And our kids have to digestie as business people, right, And then they don't want to address it when they don't see it happening because by that time the money has came in. So it's a game that they're playing.

But I even say that, I say that to say, Okay, even if you want all that, talk to me about how you plan to be a great partner, right, because there's plenty of people that have partnerships and have had them for multiple years. But they've had them because they're great partners. They're on time, you know, when they when you when they call, they pick up the phone when you call, you know, vice versa. They're responsive about a number of things, um, and they're just being true pros.

And so I try to tell my like, before we even have that conversation, let's get right first and don't just feel like again, because I'm the athlete, I can keep somebody waiting for three hours. I don't have to call you back now. You do have to call back now, you have to call back. You have to call back in a timely fashion. You should want that, right. You should want to pay people that are doing a job for you. The best business people in the world, their

payroll is substantial. Why because they want infrastructure. They want what they've been able to build to be protected. That's the whole purpose of it and continue to grow. And so I think that again, I tell these guys, you can't just be want to be a party announcement. You got to be a party investment too, right, because everyone wants a production company, everyone wants to be everyone wants a big sneaker, sneaker deal, a sneaker deal. I'm just saying,

but where is the signature shoe business at how? You know it's not it's not realistic. I get it, But let's be realistic now. Can you be the guys that have been able to build a business. Great, But they'll even tell you we don't walk the round down on sunset and see people wearing certain signature shoes anymore like we did back in the day where you saw the Petty to Griffy to Jordan or whatever you've seen that you don't see that today. It took a long time

for us to do this. Thank you man, We appreciate you. Thank you guys. This is great. Yeah, it takes success to you and sports and you guys that make sure you get your Lobos. Lobos is right thing. Thing. We're gonna be here, yes, sir, rap right off podcasts out the moment, Right rap rador Is. The Interval presents original production from hyper House, produced by Laura Wasser, Hosts and

producers Elliott Wilson and Brian b. Doc Miller. From Interval presents executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg, Executive producer Paul Rosenberg, recording engineer Brian Curley, Editing and sound design by Mike Dorsey. Operations Lead Sarah You, Business Development Lead Chef e Ellen Swgg, and Marketing Lead Samara Still. Listen on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts