Rap Radar Rewind: Steve Stoute (Part 1)

see beat out. This is legendary man Scots from Queens. He's one of us. Man, welcome to the tribe. What do you start? What do you? What do you call yourself? There's too many occupations. I don't even have. Oh like, I had a bunch of nicknames. We're gonna get to the commissioner. It's my favorite. That's probably the only one I got. Um look, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it for you. I just I noticed gut Man first of all the new Bottom was you

hear about this guy? Well, first, I know your background is kidn't play role magic, you kidn't play page Your dudes with that road road d I keep. I had to say that roady. That's that's below road manager. You damn you have to iron plays outfits? Uh no playwar leather. This is Steve Stout, Ladies, Yeah Stout, you know what I understanding. But here's why I was playing the most

excited yarrow though it is out of nowhere. You hear about this man named Commissioner, Steve Stout, Commissioner, and he's all of a sudden managing NAS and this is NAS post atomatic. The whole world's looking at this guy, right. And what I remember being a critic in the early days that era was it was like is it like, who is this guy? And all of a sudden, no Nass. Music is changing and sounds changing, the way he's approaching

things just changing. Of those one of those guys that the commissioner, you know, because we loved Almatic like we love Alomatic and that was that pure art and the source gave it that big five mics and it was like, this is so, how the fund do you follow that up? At the end of the day, here comes the commission to Steve Stout? Who is this guy? And you know the irony is that the kiss today? I think it

was written undisputed masterpiece. You know what, that ship makes me so happy, bro, because the ship I went through during that time. See I'm not lying by the way, I had to do two things. I had to make the follow up to Illmatic, and then I had to make the follow up to Marry J. Blige Is My Life and Share My World. And I kept on thinking the entire time, I have to make the follow up to two of the best albums of all time, and like,

I gotta go in there and figure it out. And of course you want to move the artists forward, and but you don't want to funk up what made the artists and what made them dope? And I mean, my life isn't is it a masterpiece? I mean what Puff did with that album was just phenomenal. It's hard to believe how him and Chucky and that whole team made that album and the lyrics and the music, it was so advanced. And obviously Allmatic is you know if you quality top the bottle, but no lines off, that's right,

no lines off. He took no lines off and that whole album. That's what I want to talk about when when when you talk about rap music and rap classics and and and because You guys are so rap freighter um so important to the culture. What you do is you're truthful about the origin of the art form. Always make sure of like when you do that, like take no lines off, I mean literally, not one. I mean no,

not one line off. Like from the time that verse starts the top of the first verse and you get to the end of that song, it's six team bars and every single word has a purpose. There's not one throwaway line. It's not some bullshit metaphor to get you out of a tough word. And you don't have to do it in one take, and you don't have to You can write it down to if you want to. You can do it. How you get that, you get

there like you just gotta get there. But don't cats feel like it's cool now to not write it down and that label I'm sure cats feel right? Why even makes sense? Cool? Not to make sense? But but talk about that time though, to go back to it, I'm gonna give you a gift that we get back past this part because I gotta get this out of so inside it. But it's I need to hear how much and then I see your stuff and when I see me to you love hip hop, you love rap to your cord. All I want to do is right here

is talk about anything hip hop ra? Who did what? Produce? What? That's all I want to talk about. I love it? But you want to do as the complete opposite of that when you jumped in the mix because people didn't know you, I think, and I did. The idea is what They're gonna take a nas and make them into this commercial thing, you know what? Like talk about that. I love q Tip and it's like here it goes though.

When I was at the mastering session five Rule the World, I'm a twenty five year old guy making this guy's record and Q Tip is telling me straight up, yo, are you sure you want to do this? When I Rule the World like questioning me, and I'm looking at him and I'm like, is he mad? Is a record question? Because you know what? Is he mad that he didn't produce on the new album because he produced so automatic?

And maybe it was that. Maybe he's right, maybe it's not coming from any other place, but you know why is why you why you putting nahs in a commercial place? And I'm sitting there thinking, look man, it's Lauren Hill and I rule the world is actually Curtis blowing. But what is he talking about? But that was found to want to take popular songs. It's popular except when Juicy came out. Yeah, I got don't understand all of that.

It's almost like nobody wanted No to do it. That's how I felt like nobody went And that's the part that bothered me. I'm like, Oh, he's not supposed to be successful. He's supposed to just be g rap. Like g Rap did something with rap lyrics that was dope and everybody appreciated what g Rap did. Nas had the g rap thing. But Nas also was a superstar. G Wrap could write his ass off. He wasn't a superstar. Nas is superstar. So how did you connect with Nasa?

Was your goal to turning him at that time was to turn him into a superstar? No, my goal was to um manage him. Man I. I literally went to the projects and walked right through Queens Bridge asking does anybody know Nas? And like straight up, like just and it's the kind of person I am, like if you just know this about me, it'll explain everything about me.

I'm walking through the projects. Failis zero. I had had Alexis Alexis had the White Lexus paralyzed White Lexus walking through the front and I'm like, does anybody know nots And a couple of dudes came pulled out and it happened to be Wis and Jungle and they thought they had beef with some guys from some other projects that's right near there. Do you know that somebody else? Yeah, but they had beef and like they you know, and

then somebody Jungle was like, wait a minute. He for some strange reason, They're like this guy is not him with the gun in the car, and like this is not that this made an official business and uh Nas wasn't even living there. Nas had moved to like Q Gardens or something at that time. But like I didn't know that I was listening to what you like. I'm gonna go find Naz and match him like that. Come. I'm just like, that's who being unmanageable back there? Yeah, yeah,

well you know what I mean. I'm I'm The thing about me is that I'm relentless when I want something and I will and I'm very resourceful and I and I don't mind looking under anything or you know, I'm an entrepreneur that's what you gotta do. There's no handbook, you know, how how else was I gonna get the nas? Everybody else was doing the other thing. Collen is lawyer calling the record company, trying to do it that way.

I'm not doing it that way. I'm going through. I'm going to do you refresh my MEMORIESA Maddia came out, it had done well, but he wasn't. Yeah, you know what I didn't. I didn't like what was happening. I felt like a Zy sugar Hill had come out and a Z was looking big, and I felt like Nas. I don't know, man, something drew me to the kid. I thought, I felt like something. It was gonna be one of those things where he made this album and

everybody loved it, and then all of a sudden nothing happened. Yeah, get judged to some critical acclaim and we don't. And that could have easily happened with him back then. Definitely, his temperament right, the people around him, the ship that he could have got into. You know, that's why him and I we talked about all the time. You know, where the two guys standing, Man, it'll last two guys standing.

You talked about during that era. You know, it was Biggie and Puff and Damon and Hope and and mean Nas. That's how we looked at it. And you know, uh, Biggie unfortunately passed man and like Damon j went their separate ways. Me and Nas the best friends right now. One thing you put up in here broke. You saw what I couldn't see and then showed it to me. That's exactly right. And I appreciate him for saying that

because I love him. And um, we never had a management contract, nothing, no, man, We just we just did what we did. Man. He he's a very very special person. He's a very very special person. So what was it like putting it was written together? From point was? Playing a little bit of it when you were here? Was a lot of it was a lot of pressure because I didn't want to mess anything up. And the hardest thing was when you listen to like the message man and oh before we put out the album my first

marketing season, that's what the market player was using. He turned nasty. Now he turned nasty. Nas, it's the nas asketball basketball season begins. Repay your shame. No, we put the we put the mix. Listen to this. We made the mixtape and we put it inside the Sauce magazine for the subscribers who got it in the mail, so they had to they had to wrap the Sauce magazine in the plastic shrink wrap and put the tape in there.

And the tape had three freestyles on it, crazy crazy, So you got the freestyles off the rip from the tape or from the from the joint. And that was the way. And that was me doing two things covering that I'm coming with our ruble world. So I wanted to get those rhymes out. So you didn't think because you didn't hear him rhyme like in a while, like he wasn't throwing versus away and like that. No, but but you heard the um I think the ray Kume

the re Kwan verse mail came out. Yeah, forget that right. But we just wanted to get the rhymes out and then so we did that. And then after we did that, we went for um UM. I wanted the first thing on the album to be like, yo, don't think I went anywhere with the rhymes, and it was the first thing was the message and um, you know that probably was the beginning of you know, the little it was

like the first probably the first jabb he had it home. No, no, yeah, TV sets the minimum, TV minimum yeah, the time he was tapping home at that time TV sets well. In fact, when I shot the I Rule the World video, remember I let that part play first. Remember the video. I remember he spent all one love, one not only one king, one life, one love, so they could only be one king. Then Laurie Hill comes in like I just wanted everybody. The rhymes wasn't going nowhere, but we was going We're

about to take off, We're about to take flight. Pink suits and all that street dreams. Well, I don't know if the suit was pinking. Alright, Peter, when you get you a little something, man, he said. You know what he said, because I said, Yo, Television, needna bring some veno. You know how he does it at the Kobe game. I was gonna be like if I know Stoup, so that's gonna be like funk all that. I'm the guest. Free me to think, no, no beat, I said, first,

a little something, Thank you very much. Listen, bro, We're gonna pop this right now thanks to this open and get into it. When I'll tell me that that's a light one. You know I could. I was last like saying no, no no, no, no no, no, this was like one, it's it's last night. It's the thought they counts. I'm not even shooting with it. Why you got that from the gas? You didn't get it from the gas. But

we have a reason to celebrate too. I saw recently in the news man you're still connected these dots Steve Man with Gucci. Yeah, thank you for asking me that. Man, Like, um, yeah, how does that happen? Because you made it right, which is what you did? That not happened? You know what Dan and Gucci? How does Dapper Dan create all the ship that Supreme and all these guys copied to this day and not get paid. Look at the Supreme jacket with the red with the et Stapper thing, like, come on,

it's no big deal. Like everybody was jacking his guy and he didn't get his Just do they shut him down in the early eighties, And you know, I feel like it's my job. I always felt like that. I don't care what anybody say. Like anybody who knows me well enough knows man. I had a day, uh this

summer where I literally left my family. I left my daughter and I went I had to go see cool Hirk to get him to do the Google Doodle when they took over that thing on August fourth, because they couldn't get him, so I think I had to find cool Hurt at the Meat Cool Hirk in Harlem, and it was a hard time to even get to him, and then he was late. Then I went to Dappa Dan's house, who lived like six blocks away because I was meeting him at the Red Rooster. Went to Dapper Dan,

took her, got there, sat with Dap before bid. Then hert called me, went back there, met with her, got him to agree that he was gonna allow his image to be used for the Google Doodle thing, and they went back to see to to to see that. And I'm like, I don't think anyone's ever done this. I'm I'm with cool Herk and Dapper then the same day actually working for them for free. That's what I do. Like, it's about moving culture forward. I'm not making that up.

I don't just use it as a hashtag or a joke, but my whole thing, whether it was jay z Sneak in the beginning to jay Z Blue to the HP Ship with jay Z half boy, I just and I get really excited about it. I really get excited about it. It's not like a fake feeling. It is like dropping a hit record or platinum album. Like when you get it, when you get a marketing piece of commercial off the right way or a campaign the right way, it feels.

It feels like just like that. Like we did the super Bowl commercial with the NFL last year and we put dead presidents in it. Like, uh, we did this commercial with the outline of the United States and I put dead presidents in it. And I'm like, I love the fact that we got dead presidents off. And I love that kind of stuff. I love the AI. When I look at the Ai Jada kissing, I'm like this in the radio, Yes, they were playing right and track masters and and everybody was eating. You know who loves

track masses. Just gentlemen to your track masses. I mean, before we get to track mass, I want to talk to them a little bit about Gucci and Dappa Dan. Okay, it's all good, Yeah, you know what is right. We'll get here. We won't. We don't get cooking this morning. Don't worry about it. So when Guccia Dapper Dan like how did that? Did you bring them into a mutual place? And like, what's gonna come about that? Okay, so check this out. Oh yeah, we didn't finish that right, so

good job that. If you was going well, so far, so far, so good. Twenty minutes. Um, so check this out here. Okay boom, oh you gotta you got something in this. I'm not pouring on that to come on. I got you right by hand, and I got you right right right now. Another glass ship, we need another glass. So there's a piece uh that comes out that Gucci made that looked like it was inspired by a dapper damn piece that he made from Louis Vutton in the y early eighties. Now, the woman who wore it was

Diane Dixon. She's like Olympian like, so she had to join on. She takes the pictures. Gucci makes something that's inspired by that, the internet goes crazy. There's a guy who I know who's at Gucci, who runs all their marketing, who I actually met twenty years ago when I first started doing the s dots of a rebok because Armandi he worked at Armani and Armani wanted to make sneakers as well, and they actually brought us in. They were gonna do a collab with Reebok. This is liked and

I mean that guy always stayed in contact. We didn't do the collab, but him and I stayed in contact. Twenty years later, he's over running things at Gucci, and um, you know, there was some there was some talk about Gucci copying Dapper and what was going on. And it was an article that came out and I was quoted in it, and he was like, boom, I know Steve.

So he called me and this whole thing started. And the the designer, the head designer over at Gucci, Alessandro is really like a street kid, Italian street kid who loves Dapper Dam and loves what he stood for. And um, it was truly inspiration, you know. And they were like, look man, we don't want no, we want to make this thing work and ship. Man, the we're doing something tremendous. I mean, I I can't it's it's tremendous. People when

people find out what this, This is not regular. This is not gonna be like oh no, no no, no, it's not gonna be like a shirt that got Dapping on it. No, it's gonna be a full legitimizing what we did. Counter and that's all I want. And you know what, check, move on, check, move on. That's what about the tanning of America. That's why all of these things were meant to that it will never ever get forgotten. We're not gonna let this thing happen where people forget

the impact that we made. That's gonna last a lifetime in generations. I'm not gonna let it happen. I'm just not gonna let it happen. Yeah, I mean that's the thing to like to go a little forward. Yes, sir, r m hm. He was president. Thanks that you went for the before you even taste you have premeditating realized. But Steve, people don't really commission that. People don't realize. First of all, why are you the commissioner? We never let's see r who called you was posed? The commissions

called me the commissioner. Um. I think he got it from Batman. I don't know where you got it Batman, but I know that they wanted me to. Like in videos back then, he was gonna like like I was gonna like grab the red phone just my hand and ship and I was like I didn't want to do videos and all that. I mean, I just wasn't not any videos. Can we catch you? You could probably see me in nothing? No, I mean, yeah, I don't know nothing.

I would never do that. Like I really took my job serious like I, Um, I didn't think because I was in the entertainment business that I shouldn't have taken it like seriously, Like if I was a mechanic, like I took it like that. I didn't. I didn't take the entertainment part of the business and then be like spend more time on the entertainment part unless time on the business. People still call me that, you know what

I'm yeah, yeah, you know. The commissioner thing took off, and um, I think that I've done a decent job living up to the reputation of what I stand for on on in the industry, and you know, I'm happy with it. The monica is cool, the commission speaking of what you stand for, like peoplen't realize that to me. Also, remember in your career trajectory, like as president of Interscope, you're like what years old, You're kind of at the height of the business, and all of a sudden you

leave the business. You leave the music business. Remember it was such a big deal and then you started getting on this new path with the advertising world, Like what made you do it? And that was such a bold move because back then having a big record label job was ultimately you know what happiness is something that you

hear it a lot. Now everybody's an inspirational everybody's everybody's Tony Robbers, black, Tony Robbins, you know, everybody's to Yeah what What what I was thinking was this is very important when an industry doesn't know the difference between good and great that industries in trouble. H okay come out to music industry anything, well, no disrespect to these great men, but like when you have ludicrous jar Rule and Nellie selling more records in jay Z, the industry doesn't know

the during it's being good and great. The people don't know that that's that those things was really happening. And then they were got guys that weren't really talented making big salaries. That's the same thing that took place in

the housing crisis. They were giving anybody alone. The same thing in the music is when there was so much money in the market, they were paying anybody anything and everybody was getting a record deal, and everybody was going to take in the radio and everything was And when you see stuff like that happening, it's not rewarding. It's like, you can do it for the money, but it's not rewarding.

Imagine that you're being in an industry nobody knows the difference between you, your version of the truth, and everything else like that, What is your history for? What is all your wisdom for? If it just if it just looks like everybody what everybody else says. So jay Z goes all doing all this ship to write these rhymes, and it's somebody else has way more records than him with nothing, you know, hollow words and unfinished versus. Like when an industry is in that place, you gotta watch

that industry. That's all I'm saying. And I was in thousand four, right, no no, no, no, no no, that's two thousand, two thousand one. The time music was good though, no no, no, no, no no no. You now, I didn't say ninety eight, alright, two thousand more, two thousand, two thousand one. I'm not saying that music wasn't good. There was a lot of the inside of a record company. It was a bunch of executives. Guy, you know, you just got this big job. He paying him seven hunder

the fifty thollars to do who He's a bomb? How are you paying that bump? So you're having the big title. It was negated in the sense you felt because it was like, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, I had a big job. Great. A lot of guys had big jobs. They were giving away big jobs. So chose made you feel like advertising what you're calling and now you because because now you happened, tell what happened. We did the Menue Black soundtrack, Boom. We sell ten million of those things.

That's right. The glasses Will Smith sold more than the album the Great Band, and and and and the company that did the product placement on that. I said, you know what, I want to get down with them. I want to understand that because I could make more money and be more impactful to the culture if I understood how to monetize around it rather than just being another guy in the record business. But I had to go

back to school. I had to go back to school, and I literally left a multimillion dollar job to go inside the advertising agency, beginning to learn four and fifty dollars. These are facts. Yeah, step I took a major step back for two years, and I learned, and I started getting busy, and I came at it sideways like I was like, Okay, you know when we're gonna do AI and Jada kiss, you know we're gonna get Hype Williams

to shoot the commercial. He shoot commercials, and we're gonna do the court like this, and tone is gonna make the beat and like, imagine if you just made the beat out of squeaking and the ball bouncing, How crazy dumb is that? Like things like that, and then we did um. I did another one that wasn't so good, but it was it was still a right idea. I was swinging and missing, but I had a chance to swinging. Miss I did uh scar face and Steve Francis. Yeah,

we did a scar face and Steve Francis spot. Then we did Fabulous Member. He had the Air Force ones but they weren't their Force ones. They were meant to look like Air Force one and he bit a jelly donut and got the like, if the Air Force ones get dirty, you gotta run back. Like I was just doing a bunch of stuff and I was experiment and learning, and then we did the g units and that went crazy, and then the Farrelle ice creams and those wing crazy.

You talk about learning a lot so recently on social media. This is very important that you know, so on these hip hop guys with sneakers right now, that was the beginning of it. Well, also, it's funny that we're seeing out this whole thing, so i'd be that, like the reminds me that, like, no disrespect for Nike Air Force Wonder Rockefella, Like there was a big you know, I was obviously huge when it came out, but they were they weren't paying nobody, no, no, no, not stitching the

logo on the back like Nike wasn't paying you. They're putting the logo on the back and giving them away and get everybody walking around like they got on Rockefeller air Force. Ones mean, while no one's making any money. That's not cool and you know what, that's how weird and untouchable. The sneaker category was because Dan Dame was very bullish on the Rockefeller brand and jay Z like he wasn't giving nobody any dips on that without paying

full fucking retail. So for him you understand what I'm saying about play it like you have to pay to get in, remember so. But but when it came to sneakers, it was almost like you can't do nothing with sneakers anyway, because you can't start a sneaker company. Like literally, the reason why jay Z was even could make the s carters they had Rocket Rocket fell Rocket wear. They Rocket were allowed a pass for him to make sneakers because they weren't gonna make sneakers. That's how obscene it was,

Like a rapper so on sneakers. Why, I'm like, why wouldn't a rapper so sneakers? People don't wear sneakers because they make them jump high and run faster. That's not true. They want to look frank. So if you can make up for the look, match the hat, match the thing, who's better than that thing? Hove? So you think at that toime. So that was part of the you you and Jay did coming together on the Rebok then, because

why are you doing that one? We can get you your own shoe and we can make this and Jay and that's and by the way, if jay Z for him to say, I will do a a partnership with Reebok back then, I was he was aware of it. You know, you was a Reebok van. You know you wish now you wish like Reebok was getting shipped on. Why would he do that? He believes in himself so much that he didn't give a fuck what He's gonna change your point of viewing that I'm gonna make it.

I'm gonna make that ship hot, the worst ship I'm gonna make hot? And he did so? Was that why? Because it seemed like that was the big thing too. It seemed like here you are, Dame did rule Rockefeller with the iron fists in that way, but then here you are now in a different way making doing business with jay Z Well, that was obviously a problem, you know what I'm saying. But was it a problem before the shoe was successful? Because then she was successful? What

ten thousand out the gate? Right like we went down to Philly, I mean j Pe went down to Philly, went down to your hood, open up that store on South Street, on the South Street and just destroyed. We sold ten thousands of room in an hour. And there was something for how much at the time it was expensive, There must have been a buck. Wow, it was definitely

over a buck. Then we went around the world. We had we took a plane on as the tail number literally landed in London, red carpet comes out, Jay walks down, does the press conference right from the FBO. Nobody still did this idea. I don't understand it. Like you land a plane, the ship rolls out and you're standing right there and do the press conference, get back on the plane, fly to Italy, do that again, like you just don't leave, you just laying like like I don't even go inside

of the world. You're just landing. The press meet you at the airport at the red carpet in the body. Dope that it's just a visual like like plane by fly by. So your d right. You mentioned something like J and like I said, I was alluding to earlier. I saw on social media that there's this clip of you talking about like ten artists that know the music business. Obviously J would be one of those artists. What do

you mean by that like that? Um, I just think that, well, the artists gett into the record business, they're fulfilling their dreams. Many they want to they want to be a star, they wanna entertain people, they want to UM, they're an artist and that's their job to be great artists. Unfortunately, the industry itself is not necessarily favorable. Two artists just wanted to be artists. In fact, the industry is taking advantage of the fact that people wanted to be artists.

Notoriously on their masters shorter and shorter than paid them with their own money. UM had made decisions for the label that were not necessarily for the benefit of the artists themselves, and UM, that's why a lot of artists end up broke. They everybody wants to say they end up broke because they're just spending money and doing crazy ship. That's not true. You know, there's some truth to any young person making money doing crazy ship and living their life.

But the fact that the matter is the money was never right. They never got the money. They never received the money that was equal to the impact that they've made. So a lot of it was, you know, Ship, you running around saying that you got me signed to the label, the signed twenty other acts, and like you're just using me that way and you own my masters. It's crazy, it's and owning the masses is so it's almost like the equivalent of you're renting an apartment, but you have

to pay for all of the renovations. That's what it's like. You pay for all of it, and you pay for all the ship. But they own it, right, so they take the money out of your money the renovations, but they own the apartment. The fund. Who does that. It's the only business that lets that people. You know, photographers, Like, if you're a photographer, when your rights as a photographer, you retain, those rights have to go back to you

to get those rights. Sure, you know all this. In the music business, they'll sign a guy up, paying money, he's eighteen years old, paying whatever whatever. Lock them up, whether it be five albums, seven albums, three albums, whatever it is. You shouldn't be locked up to shape. That's why I See You Champion disrupt is like the Frank Ocean Blonde album. I See You big enough chance to rap her Like it's funny again. You like to me, you want to shake up the business. You even said

there's gonna be a huge revolution in the music business. Yeah, because the huge revolution is that you know what I'm getting back in the music business the announcement. No, it's not. I mean we're gonna I'm going back. I'm going back into music business. The companies called United Masses UM and

United Masters. Charlie Chapman is Charlie Chapman start Charlie Chaplin actually started United Artists because in the film industry, if you were signed to Paramount, let's say, is it you was signed to them for a bunch of films and and Paramount actually owned theaters, so you'd be a Paramount actor and your and your films would only be distributed in Paramount theaters. And the government broke that up. But Charlie Chapman started United Artists to break up that monopoly.

And it was the artist doing it for themselves. So we're I'm going back in the industry building United Masses where the artists own their masses, they should own their rights. And I always felt like an advertising a company and the music company should be together. Deaf Jam could have been a great advertising agency in the Scope could have been a deaf because they were on the age of culture,

right like UM. So putting together a music company and an advertising company we put together because they want Everybody wants those services anyway. So the fact of the matter is we have creatives storytellers, and now we're gonna start music distribution and the kids with our company. We actually hired a bunch of engineers, like not hired a bunch of engineers, got great talented engineers to be a part of the company. Guys who you know built news feed

up at Facebook and like that. Because what we're gonna be able to do is the artists are gonna be able to get their data and be able to market to the to their super fans directly. You always say that eighty eight was like the best searing wrapped. You think he went to eight because you always say that eighty eight was the best year in Wrap. Do you feel like now is giving it a run for its money right now? Yeah? I mean this is a great time to be in music business. It seems like we're

streaming and music the best year WRAP is about. Look at the release schedule, O, Look, look put up the release schedule A D Daddy King Public to n W A easy classically. Yeah, put up its eighteen of them. But I mean I think that's but to your point, well, I think, look it's I was talking about this yesterday. Actually I put in errors like eight seven to eighty nine the words are just crazy. The Great Eventures of Slick.

You look at that, and then what happens is boom, you get this great body of work, and then a bunch of everybody now invests in it. So now a bunch of artists get record deals, a bunch of this. All this stuff happens. Then the Fuschnikins gets I like, I'll just working around. But what happens is that's what happens. So the money, so the art gets big, it's credible, gets big, and then all of a sudden money comes in.

Then there's a bunch of guys who are not as talented as the the nineties months could get into when I got in the eighties, basically no, and then it took it. Then there was another wave in the nineties. You know, nas Biggie Utang. But there was a law between between eighty nine and ninety when there was a music and we had the hammer Ice thing hanging over You said that, and then part of it though you don't think so, yeah, you know it's and now we

respect Hammer more. I've always respected him, and he took what he did, he took it. You know what, the first the first guy in the dance floor always takes jobs. You're the first guy in the dance floor. You know, you can't like that's what happened, right, yeah, but you but you but you get other people to get up and dance, right, what That's what Hammer did, whether you

liked it or not. Right, he was the one who said he took a global because the dance But either way double, I mean, yeah, fucking this Opus works track masses. And I was like, the funny thing is that everything song he loves that era is track masses like this track mass. Yeah, we have these a bas often about the best producers in hip hop, and usually the top ten.

I always put the track masses up there, like you know, in the top ten, and people give me help for him, like you so, who explained the track masses of people that don't know? Because I feel like they're kind of like unsung accomplished producers if you look at the stats. If you go from and they don't do press, we'll get that poking tone. Won't talk. We've been even begging the whole time, right, Steve, I've been to speak to me father, but he won't. I mean Ill Street Blues,

I mean they made that right. So they're making g wrap record, Candy Rain, the Classic, One More Chance they made that, like Our Rule the World, This that that Hey Lover they made that. Then Foxy Brown that whole album they made that. Then Tone makes the Old the Fiesta. I don't have to talk about this guy. You guys are crazy. That's not going to talk about Range and Time talked to Jermaine Dux because what did you What did your Maine say? He disputed me because he felt

at the time we had what did he say? Oh my, what did he say? He said that because I was giving him. I don't remember exactly verbatim because I don't want to put words in his mouth. But I mentioned, I believe track masses you could, you know, the top ten and hip hop, and but he felt that he belonged to the top ten for hip hop. I disputed that. How does it? How does he deserve it to be in the top ten hip hop? I don't know. I love Jermaine. Jermaine Dupri is a great producer for sure,

definitely sure. And Confessions is ridiculous classic and the record he and the Mariah album he made was ridiculous, Like um yeah, like hip hop, hip hop he made a couple of joints, money and the thing whatever, but like he's not he was in comparing himself. He's saying that he's no. I was giving him my list because when he had we had him want to show the top producing top names. But he love Jane, you know, I've been friends for a very very long time. But he

doesn't get enough could be fair to him. He does. I don't think from critics, I don't think. I don't think people even give producers just do not are yes, I don't. I don't. I think producers got left out. Um like DJ's got left out, you know, like um, But you felt at the time, chap Masters was the only one kind of competing with Puffy at his height, with the hit Man, how formidable that work. We was destroying those dudes kind of I don't say destroying, but

it was giving someone kill him man. Well yeah, look, first of all, DNA seem sope talented dudes. But Kanye was doing some of those records. There was a lot of ghost action. So good battle is poking tone just straight up against n that's a good battle. Yeah, there was a lot of There was a lot of eating off the Edges, Track Masses definitely. Earthoso doesn't get a lot of credit from being a group of great produce. Why don't ever call you Charlie the podcast You have

no idea how stupid that joke. But he stays with it because in um uh it's not as good as Casino. It rememin Casino. When the guy he put his head in the thing in the in the um and you did that for Charlie. I'm Cholie. I have no idea how I became. If you're doing that to protect Charlie, you dumb butterfucker to give people to give that you said,

new generation. They love inspiration, they love ambitions. They love to these stories of like failing and reinventing yourself before yeah, before the reinvention of the whole thing with trap Master Sulf, Correct me if I'm wrong. Was the day you met Tone and he asked you to manage to track masters involve with them, But the day you got fired from

your record company job? Facts I was in I was in Greenators Wall and the Green Ators Mall, and I've seen Tone and at the time I had a you can go to a producer, you can give me the acapella and it would basically, UM, make the beat on the acapella like tape, and it was almost like that demo for the remix, and I had music that given the tone. I was waiting for him to come back with the demo, and I've seen him in the morning, like, Yo, what's up? Remember what it was? Yes, it was terrible.

It was trash. It was uh, it was it was early Steve Stouts trash work. But any I gave it, gave it the tone, and he probably didn't want to do it because it was trash. He made the right call, but he came to my office. We set up time and let's say this was ever a meeting at ten. He shows up at ten, but I have an eleven o'clock meeting and he's on the phone dealing with some crazy ship at home. So I'm like, look, I got a meeting with my boss at eleven, so you can

finish your crazy ship. When I come back. We could talk about record was an r C A record in our clue? Was my assistant job Walker was there. That's when I meant, yeah, that's how Rob woke he found for ut and ming to the meeting. Yeah, going to the meeting, I come back eleven seventeen. But the job, he's sitting in my office style. I can't imagine anybody. Is that the last time anybody that fired you. That would be the only time anyone has the opportunity to fight.

So the guy goes the guy who fired his famous too, Yeah you snub cocked up. No no no, no, no, no, he's actually a really famous guy. He passed away. That's right. His name is Skip Miller. He actually was the guy who discovered line l Richie Um. But there was a lack of understanding of hip hop. But they were they were letting go. They let go. Capital Records fired the entire hip hop division. Like the record labels were disbanding

hip hop. They didn't understand it. Again, that's what I was saying, Like all the money comes in and everybody wants the instant returns, Like how can we can't have a hammer or we can't have a whatever? No no, no, no, no no no no. Because see Goth Brooks is selling, Michael Bolton is selling, you know, Kenny g is selling, and by the way, a little bit, and the R and B ship is selling, Tony Braxon selling. This is so why do you need to do this ship and

deal with these guys and deal with this? Why do you have to deal with that? And like if and the batting average of real money making success is low. So record companies who weren't connected, if you didn't have a Dante Ross or somebody who could like do then then you just might as well just not even do it. And uh, they were disbanding, so it was easy for them to get they weren't they were firing me, but they were really firing black music, you know, and I

was just part of it. The only group they kept was s w V. All right, So anyhow, Um, but I come back in like tone and he's like, what am I gonna do? It's like I said, I could

manage you. M And they were just in the middle of the Soul for Real album and I heard Candy Rain and they were doing and um and and and at that time, producers weren't getting They were still like if you were the guy like a Puff or Germain or whomever it was, you already you were close to the record company, you were close to the artist, you would have gatekeeper. So all the other producers that came

in would be like they wouldn't get to shine. So my whole thing was like you guys, we're gonna give you guys a shine, and we're not gonna we're not. And I there's a couple of things that I instituted that became law, like if I do three or four records on your album with the executive producer, if if not,

then we're not doing it. Because you was like, I'm not giving you single, I'm not giving you the singles, and then eating off of like you know, you get paid equally like I'm getting I want to get If I'm doing three or four records, i am not making the singles and everybody to else's you know for me,

like I'm the executive producer. I want album points plus I want you know, points on our single, which is higher than were able to get that you have the first know, the answers called just no, I'm not doing it,

We're not doing it. I'm sorry. Then I then I created these things called song deals, which like they didn't even exist, Like how about this, rather than paying us a hundred thousand dollars a track, because that's what I'm charging you, I'll charge you seventy five thousand dollars a track, but you buy twenty up front. But how did that? But how did that momentum start? You're coming from being fired our ce A. Because I was on the inside, I knew no, But how did what did that first click? What?

What was the first thing that clicked with you guys that you could build yourself to have that leverage in the business, Like, what was the first thing you guys so for real came out? And then um, probably Hey Lover and that Hello, the Yellow Cool J album, many comebacks. Yeah, we definitely man and you know what I've non hello my whole I've no no, God knows how I grew up idolizing him because I lived I used to see

him in the neighborhood. I've seen the LOJ battle guys at um Treenac as well, and I've seen him but you know on Jamaica Avenue, shopping at V I M S. And in the in the coliseum, you know, shirt kings and all that. So I'd see him block parties, the whole package. And I was always like, I looked at him. So when Chris Lidy asked me to work on the project, like we worked on the project and it was like we're gonna make and we had Foxy signed Tone found

U Foxy Brown. That's how she got on Ice shot You you said was the hardest project though for you, all right? He said it was the hardest project to make. Well, that was another thing, man, I actually bet puff on that that she was someone records in kim that and that how I mean she did really Wow? Yeah, get you Home with some Monster and that's Hold. But do you know what overall the album, man, it was toning Hold. That's how all that r Kelly and all that stuff

that took place afterwards their relationships started. There went tone and and and they did the Michael Jackson remix, They did the Maya remix. Tell stout the hall me man, that shot out. That's what genius said. You know, Jay, how did that work? Why did you try that? What was hollering that? Are you waiting for a shout out? For twenty years? You're gonna get gray hair waiting for I forgot about that shout out too until just now, like a focus. But that's the drop off it your

shout out. You do get shout out a lot of us. We'll get to that at the end. I have a couple of references to shout out. So it's great, Yeah, they talk about the Puffy situation. So what's what's is that such an allure, like what's the what's the issue? Like do you do you? Does it bother you? That that comes up a lot that people think that associate that with your name. No, it doesn't happen it anymore.

In fact, I spoke the puff this morning. Um the thing that nobody ever talks about to me, and whether it be the nas J beef or thing with Puffy is that could have turned into it a jail guns this that in the third when there's mutual respect. I respect puff Man, I've always respected him. I've known this guy.

I was in I was thinking about this. I was in his office at Bobby Brown cut out a live size Bobby Brown cut out like Bobby Brown, like a five ft five Bobby Brown thing where you put you know, the CD are being like like like pull a CD from his vest and ship and um, well I was in his office when Magic Johnson announced that he had AIDS. So it was like two ninety one, like and I and I and I and I heard you remind me. I heard the soundtrack for um, oh, it was called

Go Natalie at first business. No, it wasn't go. Go Natalie was the first name of the movie. And then it was the first holly Berry thing. Business was a srictly business. Okay, now it was originally called Go Natalie. And I heard that soundtrack and it was just like, like like I've known the man from that long and like the fact that we went through that thing and hate me now and what was it? Did he asked to be taken out the video and you wouldn't take him.

I didn't take him out. Sony spent a million dollars. Man, there's a guy named Donnie einand this guy who was a racist pig at Sony named Columbia Running Black Running Columbia. You know, this is the same guy who dropped the Licia keys, who dropped fifty cent. He was just a

complete asshole. And like he spent the million dollars to make this video, even though he's charging NAS eight d seventy five thousand dollars of that million, but at the time, nobody really knows that, to be honest with you, you know, and like he wasn't gonna let that scene of the guys on the cross come out. That's that was half of the million dollars PUFF wanted. I was trying to go back and forth to keep it in. But you know, I didn't ultimately have the call. I didn't. I didn't.

I wasn't. You know, I was a twenty now maybe twenty seven years old. Now. I definitely like that version for sure, But it wasn't like it was my decision. I could be like, no, put that in versus. I didn't have that kind of contin remember even cultural like he's a fanli. Yeah, it was a big It was a big deal, and that's you know, it's unfortunate. And like the first thing I had him do. Man, when he did, he had to call my mom, and he

called my mom. He didn't know my mom. He called my mom, and because I needed to get my mom, she she knew I wasn't there. You know, like, you know what your mom thinking, you're in a business where you could die anytime and all that kind of mean why you could back then, I didn't want her to

feel that feeling. And you know, it took years and then we got to a place where we respect one another and I respect him, and you know, it was challenging for me man to to to feel like I was gonna be the person that was a victim walking around and you know, the butt of a joke or whatever whatever. But that that actually motivated me to be like,

I'm never gonna be known as that guy. I'm gonna put my fucking numbers up, you know, like a guy who misses a shot and he's like, I'm you're not gonna remember me from missing that game, when like, I'm just gonna put numbers up, and I just started putting up numbers. Boom, boom. I just want to be in the video at all, Like no, he want to be in that scene. He had a came in and thought it was sacrilegious that he was on the cross. It's like, then why did you get on the cross? But you

know he brought the priest in too late? But anyhow, you know that was that was it. It was really it. Four guys, well, it wasn't four guys walk in. They jumped me in the office, arros and at three or whatever time, it was there in my office after that, and that was I would say step back. Then people would sending facts and that's when you knew something real and there was already sacks and like that, there was an incident or something that happened like that. It was tough.

I mean, it was tough for me to deal with. And you you out of know and if there's anybody that I could touch with this, it's like you go through adversity, and it's it's through that adversity do you find who you really are. And I'm not the type of guy to run around and use my money to hire an army of killers or do some creamy I'm not I'm not that I felt like that, but that's not really who I am. I'm not that type of person.

And I I want to do I want to build a great business and and do great things in this world. I don't want to, you know, let my ego get me locked behind bards, you know, because I felt that was I disrespected, Absolutely that I felt disrespected. Yeah, I had to figure out a way to like not let that define me. How did you get to a better place? How do we get to a better It took years? Remember I took years. I'm want nobody, nobody can fix that.

It took It was us. He was he was very very adamant to fix it, and um, it's the guy I just would We would speak on a regular basis about We talk about it, We talk about what we are, what we mean. He's never ever ever told me no. If I asked for anything, he always says yes. He's never ever told me no. It's just like you meet people and you get like that aside the level of respect. It's like Nas and Jay, It's like, we're gonna get to that